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View Full Version : Colorado judge rejects request to unseal Aurora theater shooting documents




JoshLowry
08-21-2012, 01:13 PM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/aug/13/colorado-judge-unseal-aurora-documents

(nice url name, eh? doesn't include rejects)

Also

http://www.youtube.com/user/HistoricalRecordsVLT/videos?sort=p&view=0 (http://www.youtube.com/user/HistoricalRecordsVLT/videos)

pcosmar
08-21-2012, 02:03 PM
[

http://www.youtube.com/user/HistoricalRecordsVLT/videos?sort=p&view=0 (http://www.youtube.com/user/HistoricalRecordsVLT/videos)

Nice,, Had heard of the judges decision.. but the Historical Record is a nice collection.
Had not seen that.

;)

DGambler
08-21-2012, 02:08 PM
All this does is, IMO, lend to the conspiracy.

JoshLowry
08-21-2012, 02:13 PM
All this does is, IMO, lend to the conspiracy.

Yea, that's the point.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?386675-Why-People-Believe-In-Conspiracy-Theories&p=4592157&viewfull=1#post4592157


Conspire means to plan in private together. Usually at someone's detriment.

It's a good representation of the power structures that are in place.

Heard of Operation Fast and Furious? Eric Holder? Done any digging?

pcosmar
08-21-2012, 02:13 PM
All this does is, IMO, lend to the conspiracy.

Conspiracy to create a conspiracy?

Would it not be better to have an open,transparent and public investigation?
Oh, and not by the same Keystone cops that violate the rights of 70 people at gunpoint at an intersection.
The investigation should include that whole department.

coastie
08-21-2012, 02:15 PM
That's ok, the interwebs save the day. A little 10 minute vidoe I put together on this, has the police audio from that night, as well as eyewitness testimony.



http://youtu.be/xb41DxcZtGk



???? I'm posting a video link in my post, and it's not showing up? WTF?

JoshLowry
08-21-2012, 02:16 PM
There are no 911 calls that I can find.

Gag on CU staff by Judge.

Under care of Air Force psychiatrist.

The police audio separates the two channels after they found James Holmes in a white car.

coastie
08-21-2012, 02:17 PM
Here, someone else try:

http://youtu.be/xb41DxcZtGk


http://youtu.be/xb41DxcZtGk

DGambler
08-21-2012, 02:17 PM
Conspiracy to create a conspiracy?

Would it not be better to have an open,transparent and public investigation?
Oh, and not by the same Keystone cops that violate the rights of 70 people at gunpoint at an intersection.
The investigation should include that whole department.

Agreed, this should be an open and transparent investigation. By it not being, the ultimate given outcome of the trial is never going to accepted by many people, there are too many issues with the story.

@Josh... No, I'm vaguely aware of it, but that is one story I haven't been following as closely as I should be.

coastie
08-21-2012, 02:20 PM
Why is embedding not working? I insert link into the video icon (like always) and nothing shows up, at all???

JoshLowry
08-21-2012, 02:25 PM
Here, someone else try:

http://youtu.be/xb41DxcZtGk


http://youtu.be/xb41DxcZtGk

I can see the link.

Pretty good summary. Missing some stuff.

Have you seen the orange duffel bag and gas can, what appears to be a bloody knife at NE corner by other gas mask, arson at apt 1/2 block from booby trapped apt - same location as nine days before shooting holmes was inquiring there about available units, nurse drowned, etc, etc... :(

Dr.3D
08-21-2012, 02:30 PM
Here, someone else try:

http://youtu.be/xb41DxcZtGk


http://youtu.be/xb41DxcZtGk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb41DxcZtGk&feature=youtu.be

coastie
08-21-2012, 02:33 PM
I can see the link.

Pretty good summary. Missing some stuff.

Have you seen the orange duffel bag and gas can, bloody knife at NE corner by other gas mask, arson at apt 1/2 block from booby trapped apt - same location as nine days before shooting holmes was inquiring there about available units, nurse drowned, etc, etc... :(

I have most of that, I just shot this off late last night because of a debate I had with someone, it was private until today.

I'm working on something bigger and more detailed. I edited out a lot of what you're talking about to shorten it for a friend, such as when there was a call for a an ambulance at an intersection almost 500 ft away from the theater exit, minutes after the shooting started!

JoshLowry
08-21-2012, 02:38 PM
Boots at scene appear muddy.

Suspect/s? reported fleeing in black camo with backpack to NE.

1/2 mile field to northeast of theater w police station on other side. (Also explains rapid response time but...)

...seven minutes to set up a perimeter?

These are just dots, no hypothesis or theory.

coastie
08-21-2012, 02:45 PM
Boots at scene appear muddy.

Suspect/s? reported fleeing in black camo with backpack to NE.

1/2 mile field to northeast of theater w police station on other side. (Also explains rapid response time but...)

...seven minutes to set up a perimeter?

These are just dots, no hypothesis or theory.

The intersection with a victim I referred to earlier was to the north east of the theater....

brandon
08-21-2012, 02:53 PM
I'm watching this video and I'm not really sure what point it's trying to make. Is the point just that not all of the witnesses recalled the same exact thing?

donnay
08-21-2012, 03:01 PM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/aug/13/colorado-judge-unseal-aurora-documents

(nice url name, eh? doesn't include rejects)

Also

http://www.youtube.com/user/HistoricalRecordsVLT/videos?sort=p&view=0 (http://www.youtube.com/user/HistoricalRecordsVLT/videos)


My first reaction upon hearing this is; what do they have to hide?

Transparency in government my arse.

donnay
08-21-2012, 03:07 PM
How about the suspect in the plaid shirt, that one of the police radioed to dispatch?

CaptainAmerica
08-21-2012, 03:10 PM
There are no 911 calls that I can find.

Gag on CU staff by Judge.

Under care of Air Force psychiatrist.

The police audio separates the two channels after they found James Holmes in a white car.
The first reports said there were multiple gunmen, just like the tucson shooting reports last year claimed there were multiple gunmen but suddenly it changes to a single lone wolf gunman and no one ever mentions/corrects the original reports.

coastie
08-21-2012, 03:10 PM
I'm watching this video and I'm not really sure what point it's trying to make. Is the point just that not all of the witnesses recalled the same exact thing?


No, the point is that the official version of the story doesn't jive with witness reports. The police chief stated numerous times hours after the shooting they were sure the shooter was alone and they had no evidence he was helped, when clearly that wasn't the case. Its just a clip of a much bigger video, not even done editing really.

brandon
08-21-2012, 03:10 PM
My first reaction upon hearing this is; what do they have to hide?

Transparency in government my arse.

I don't think this really has anything to do with government transparency. I haven't been following the case really, but it's common for judges to issue gag orders in high profile cases as to not interfere with jury selection or ongoing investigations. Has a jury been selected for this case yet? All the evidence submitted will eventually become public record.

angelatc
08-21-2012, 03:19 PM
Conspiracy to create a conspiracy?

Would it not be better to have an open,transparent and public investigation?

Not while the guy is entitled to a trial by the jury of his peers.

Romulus
08-21-2012, 03:22 PM
Doesn't the media get it's information directly from the police officers or a spokesmen of them? That is their cover right there. 2nd gunman escapes, all of the sudden the story changes to 'lone gunman' to cover up a fail. ?

donnay
08-21-2012, 03:31 PM
I don't think this really has anything to do with government transparency. I haven't been following the case really, but it's common for judges to issue gag orders in high profile cases as to not interfere with jury selection or ongoing investigations. Has a jury been selected for this case yet? All the evidence submitted will eventually become public record.

A fully informed jury is what James E. Holmes need. However, it will be one sided, as so many high profile cases have been, over the years. By allowing information to disseminate, freely and openly, a good investigative journalist can cracked the case quicker than detectives given all the hoops and regulations they need to go through, as a norm.

Not to mention I frankly do not trust the police chief in this case--his quick press conference he gave, immediately made me think they were hiding something. Boy, I wished I was on this jury!!

donnay
08-21-2012, 03:32 PM
Not while the guy is entitled to a trial by the jury of his peers.

Fully informed. Not informed by a judge.

pcosmar
08-21-2012, 03:38 PM
Not while the guy is entitled to a trial by the jury of his peers.

Mark my words,,
There will never be a trial.
He will be drugged till a plea is made,, or he is committed. (or killed)

This will not get a trial. Certainly nothing close to a fair trial.

Bruno
08-21-2012, 03:45 PM
Lack of transparency is transparent.

angelatc
08-21-2012, 05:41 PM
Fully informed. Not informed by a judge.

Not informed by the crazy conspiracy people on the internet, or the Nancy Graces of the world. I think it's absurd to believe that hearsay and anecdotal evidence from 1200 miles away serves as a better reflection of the truth than say, the truth.

QueenB4Liberty
08-21-2012, 05:42 PM
Mark my words,,
There will never be a trial.
He will be drugged till a plea is made,, or he is committed. (or killed)

This will not get a trial. Certainly nothing close to a fair trial.

I agree.

I know that people have said there may have been multiple witnesses. But were these people paying attention before the shooting? Did they look outside when he went outside? It's not like it was dark, so in a loud movie, no one would really notice. And maybe it would've made more sense if there was more than one gunman. I know this case seems fishy, but I don't necessarily believe there was more than one gunman.

pcosmar
08-21-2012, 05:52 PM
but I don't necessarily believe there was more than one gunman.

That still does not mean that this guy,, drugged and propped up next to a car was the gunman.

And from police dispatch tapes,, that is how it seems.

There is much that is out of the reach of this "gag" order,, and available for any rational mind to inspect.

donnay
08-21-2012, 06:10 PM
Not informed by the crazy conspiracy people on the internet, or the Nancy Graces of the world. I think it's absurd to believe that hearsay and anecdotal evidence from 1200 miles away serves as a better reflection of the truth than say, the truth.


But to get instruction from a conspirator is okay? How does one find the truth when a corrupted system keeps it from them? We are talking about a system of foxes guarding a hen house.

I am with pcosmar, Holmes will NEVER see a fair trial. Nor did Jared Loughner.

"To consider judges as the ultimate arbiters of all constitutional questions is a very dangerous doctrine indeed, and one which would place us under the despotism of an oligarchy." ~Thomas Jefferson

"It is better for one hundred guilty men to go free than one innocent man to go to jail" ~Thomas Jefferson

JoshLowry
08-21-2012, 06:59 PM
I think it's absurd to believe that hearsay and anecdotal evidence from 1200 miles away serves as a better reflection of the truth than say, the truth.

While researching this and leaving out speculation on purpose in order to avoid posts like these, I had a conversation with someone who had a ticket to theater 8.

Similar reports of multiple people involved.

Sematary
08-21-2012, 11:27 PM
Here's the problem. Unless the alleged 2nd gunment or conspirator, or whatever, becomes known - and makes his/her involvement public record, we will never know what really happened. It is EASY in the aftermath of something like this to have multiple accounts that possibly contradict each other because the cops are trying to come up with answers when they don't have much information yet and people's memories are fluid and suggestion can add or subtract from what they think they remember.
Personally, I think it is quite possible that the shooter had a co-conspirator but without direct evidence to support that theory, we are left with the single shooter as our only answer.
I seem to remember something about someone (one of the witnesses) saying that he/she saw the shooter prop the door open, exit the theater then return during the film or something to that effect.
I definitely am not inclined to believe that this incident was the result of some government conspiracy to create fear so they could try and pass more gun laws (one of the conspiracy theories I've read). NONE of them even wanted to talk about guns after this - Pubs or Dems.

donnay
08-21-2012, 11:50 PM
Here's the problem. Unless the alleged 2nd gunment or conspirator, or whatever, becomes known - and makes his/her involvement public record, we will never know what really happened. It is EASY in the aftermath of something like this to have multiple accounts that possibly contradict each other because the cops are trying to come up with answers when they don't have much information yet and people's memories are fluid and suggestion can add or subtract from what they think they remember.
Personally, I think it is quite possible that the shooter had a co-conspirator but without direct evidence to support that theory, we are left with the single shooter as our only answer.
I seem to remember something about someone (one of the witnesses) saying that he/she saw the shooter prop the door open, exit the theater then return during the film or something to that effect.
I definitely am not inclined to believe that this incident was the result of some government conspiracy to create fear so they could try and pass more gun laws (one of the conspiracy theories I've read). NONE of them even wanted to talk about guns after this - Pubs or Dems.


That's because they pass gun control legislation bundled in other bills. The UN gun bans are on the table as well. So if you don't think this could have been a deliberate false flag to bring in more draconian legislation, what do you make of Fast and Furious then?

Almost all the eye witnesses I heard who give their testimony to the media said there were two shooters. The police themselves were saying there was another suspect. The police chief Oates called a news conference later Saturday afternoon to quell those reports. Why? If it is an on-going investigation he could have simply said, "I have no comment on that at this time, since this is an on-going investigation."

And let us just look at the fact if James Holmes was some evil deranged guy who wanted to do a lot of destruction. Why do you suppose he tipped off the police and told them his apartment was booby trapped?

If you check out the Aurora Police Chief Daniel Oates he was head of NYPD Intelligence gathering under Mayor Giuliani. Some things just make you say, Hmm.