Republican Senate Nominee: Victims Of ‘Legitimate Rape’ Don’t Get Pregnant

[idiom]

Do we have to be republicans?

http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/08/todd-akin-legitimate-rape.php?m=1


Rep. Todd Akin, the Republican nominee for Senate in Missouri who is running against Sen. Claire McCaskill, justified his opposition to abortion rights even in case of rape with a claim that victims of “legitimate rape” have unnamed biological defenses that prevent pregnancy.

“First of all, from what I understand from doctors [pregnancy from rape] is really rare,” Akin told KTVI-TV in an interview posted Sunday. “If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down.”

Please merge or move this if it is the wrong place.

[TheTexan]

I didn't know Todd Akin was a doctor

[TheTexan]

Do we have to be republicans?

lol nfs

[Drex]

This makes me want to go to my county courthouse and become independent

[thoughtomator]

Possibly the dumbest thing ever to come out of the mouth of a politician not named Biden.

[trey4sports]

Todd Akin is a worthless piece of shit.

[Miss Annie]

I didn't know Todd Akin was a doctor

He may not be a doctor, but he is certainly a certified idiot!

[LibertyEagle]

This makes me want to go to my county courthouse and become independent

It's just one idiot.

[FrankRep]

Rep. Todd Akin says he 'misspoke' about rape in interview (http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/story/2012-08-19/todd-akin-rape/57146944/1)


USA Today
Aug. 19, 2012



Akin said in an emailed statement later Sunday that he "misspoke" during the interview, though the statement did not say specifically which points.

"In reviewing my off-the-cuff remarks, it's clear that I misspoke in this interview and it does not reflect the deep empathy I hold for the thousands of women who are raped and abused every year," Akin's statement said. "Those who perpetrate these crimes are the lowest of the low in our society and their victims will have no stronger advocate in the Senate to help ensure they have the justice they deserve."

Akin also said in the statement he believes "deeply in the protection of all life and I do not believe that harming another innocent victim is the right course of action."

[BSU kid]

And why did they pick Akin again? :rolleyes:

[tttppp]

So I guess its ok to rape someone if you get her pregnant. If she gets pregnant, that means she wanted it.

[Nirvikalpa]

What the?

No, you don't "misspeak" that. Quite simple.

[Origanalist]

He'll never be able to unsay that one. Dolt.

[Indy Vidual]

Do we have to be republicans?...

No we do not have to be republicans. The Dem party and LP need to be taken over.
Also, a common sense approach to abortion will (probably) attract a much larger number of women.

[BSU kid]

I consider myself pro-life but this guy is even upsetting me. Then again I can't handle uppity liberals either, ughhh is there no place for rational people in this society.

[DerailingDaTrain]

Wow....

[Danan]

So I guess its ok to rape someone if you get her pregnant. If she gets pregnant, that means she wanted it.

Lol. I didn't think about that, but yes, it would logically follow.

[trey4sports]

MO really screwed the pooch not nominating John Brunner....

[Icymudpuppy]

No we do not have to be republicans. The Dem party and LP need to be taken over.
Also, a common sense approach to abortion will (probably) attract a much larger number of women.

I'm in the process of organizing my county's LP party. We have our first meeting on October 20th. Wish me luck!

[GeorgiaAvenger]

MO really screwed the pooch not nominating John Brunner....

Would be cool if Akin dropped out and they gave it to Brunner.

[kathy88]

Possibly the dumbest thing ever to come out of the mouth of a politician not named Biden.

Or Bush lite.

[TCE]

Don't blame us, we didn't support him. Although the GOP will inevitably attempt a smear campaign by claiming anyone not voting for him is "not a real Republican."

[JorgeStevenson]

I don't get what's so dumb about his comment, other than that he used the phrase "legitimate rape" which is obviously read meat for the left.

Isn't he basically acknowledging that there are cases where women cry wolf when it was actually consensual sex? And that, in the cases where that didn't happen, that he's talked to doctors who say the body has some natural defenses against that? And if, God forbid, those defenses didn't work and the victim does get pregnant, that it is not our place to punish the baby but rather the rapist?

It was a dumb way of phrasing it, but I don't think this was some sort of deliberate communication that he thinks women never are actually raped, or that he believes some kind of "if she floats, she's a witch!" way of figuring out if somebody was raped.

[cajuncocoa]

Do we have to be republicans?
I am so out of the GOP!! :rolleyes:

[Adrock]

I consider myself pro-life but this guy is even upsetting me. Then again I can't handle uppity liberals either, ughhh is there no place for rational people in this society.

Pretty much where I am at with this.

[Brett85]

Absolutely stupid comment, but it's still funny to see how upset the liberals get over stuff like this.

[FrankRep]

Mitt Romney Distances Self From Todd Akin's Legitimate Rape' Comments (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/19/mitt-romney-todd-akin_n_1808317.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000003)


Huffington Post
Aug 19, 2012



In response to Rep. Todd Akin's (R-Mo.) inflammatory comment on Sunday that "legitimate rape" victims rarely get pregnant and therefore do not need abortions, Mitt Romney's campaign said that he and running mate Paul Ryan support abortion rights for rape victims.

"Governor Romney and Congressman Ryan disagree with Mr. Akin’s statement, and a Romney-Ryan administration would not oppose abortion in instances of rape," Andrea Saul, a Romney spokesperson, told The Huffington Post.

[pcosmar]

Possibly the dumbest thing ever to come out of the mouth of a politician not named Biden.

Potato

[idiom]

I don't get what's so dumb about his comment, other than that he used the phrase "legitimate rape" which is obviously read meat for the left.

Isn't he basically acknowledging that there are cases where women cry wolf when it was actually consensual sex? And that, in the cases where that didn't happen, that he's talked to doctors who say the body has some natural defenses against that? And if, God forbid, those defenses didn't work and the victim does get pregnant, that it is not our place to punish the baby but rather the rapist?

It was a dumb way of phrasing it, but I don't think this was some sort of deliberate communication that he thinks women never are actually raped, or that he believes some kind of "if she floats, she's a witch!" way of figuring out if somebody was raped.

He is claiming that in the case of rape the female body naturally shuts down its reproduction organs so that conception almost never occurs. He is reading from a very special textbook.

[thoughtomator]

Potato

That was dumb, for sure, but not as dumb as getting yourself associated with the phrase "legitimate rape". Not even close.

[rp08orbust]

The female reproductive system is just a series of tubes that can be squeezed at will, isn't it?

[TheTexan]

The female reproductive system is just a series of tubes that can be squeezed at will, isn't it?

You're thinking of the male reproductive system

[Brian4Liberty]

And why did they pick Akin again? :rolleyes:

Establishment candidate. Don't you know that abortion is the most important (red herring) issue in false left/right races? He is playing his role.


MO really screwed the pooch not nominating John Brunner....

Yep, Brunner was the better choice.

[AJ Antimony]

MO really screwed the pooch not nominating John Brunner....

Brunner screwed himself. How do you outspend Akin $7 million to $2 million and lose the election?

[RP Supporter]

Brunner screwed himself. How do you outspend Akin $7 million to $2 million and lose the election?

He and the other candidate (Steelman?) attacked each other back and forth. Akin,who ran a "clean" campaign, looked really nice to a lot of people who were fed up with the negativity.

As an aside, this is what happened with Thompson in Wisconsin too. Hovde surged into the lead, other candidate started attacking him, and Thompson stayed out of it.

[Weston White]

He may not be a doctor, but he is certainly a certified idiot!

As would say cousin Eddie, Bingo!

[juleswin]

He may not be a doctor, but he is certainly a certified idiot!

Yea, he maybe an idiot. But I wouldn't be surprised if there is some truth to what he said. Depression, stress and add in a little fasting after the rape and the human body could sense distress and switch to survival mode terminating the pregnancy. It something that sounds possible but you just don't open your mouth without solid evidence.

[Brett85]

a Romney-Ryan administration would not oppose abortion in instances of rape," Andrea Saul, a Romney spokesperson, told The Huffington Post.

Yeah, and that's the "conservative" ticket we're all supposed to be wildly excited about?

[juleswin]

Yeah, and that's the "conservative" ticket we're all supposed to be wildly excited about?

So are you willing to be the bureaucrat that will tell a victim of rape that she cannot abort the rapist's spawn growing insider her?

[specsaregood]

./

[matt0611]

He and the other candidate (Steelman?) attacked each other back and forth. Akin,who ran a "clean" campaign, looked really nice to a lot of people who were fed up with the negativity.

As an aside, this is what happened with Thompson in Wisconsin too. Hovde surged into the lead, other candidate started attacking him, and Thompson stayed out of it.

Yep, two conservative candidates split the vote so the establishment candidate won. Who would have thought? Damn idiots, now they have a hack establishment candidate because of their own selfishness.

[Brett85]

So are you willing to be the bureaucrat that will tell a victim of rape that she cannot abort the rapist's spawn growing insider her?

I would be the defender of life who would tell her that she doesn't have to keep the baby if she doesn't want it. She can give it up for adoption.

[juleswin]

I'd be the bureaucrat that would allow her emergency contraceptives to prevent her from becoming pregnant following a rape.

But what if its one of those kidnap and rape incidents? no chance to give out emergency contraception just plain ole abortion. I know, I know, the scenario that am talking about has a 0.00000001% chance of happening but hey people still win the lottery every times.

[juleswin]

I would be the defender of life who would tell her that she doesn't have to keep the baby if she doesn't want it. She can give it up for adoption.

But she is going to have to carry it to term 1st and risk dying for a child she despises right?

[Brett85]

But she is going to have to carry it to term 1st and risk dying for a child she despises right?

You didn't mention anything about "dying." I believe that abortion should be illegal except in cases where the life of the mother is in danger. Also, I don't see why she should "despise" an innocent baby. She should despise the man who raped her.

[jbauer]

Out of curiosity, if a bunch of liberals gange-raped him would it sill be considered rape? Or by making such a comment would such actions be legitimate?

[JorgeStevenson]

Yeah, and that's the "conservative" ticket we're all supposed to be wildly excited about?

Yeah, that's the most appalling thing that I read in this whole thread. Chalk up one more area where Romney is the same as Obama.

[trey4sports]

he didn't win because akin and steelman went negative.... he won because the incumbent democrat (claire mccaskil) saturated the market with ads about how Akin is just too conservative. she ran those ads the week leading up to the republican primary. She ran those ads trying to help Akin win because he polls the worst against her.

[CaptUSA]

MO really screwed the pooch not nominating John Brunner....
If the pooch got pregnant, that means she wanted it. :p

[JorgeStevenson]

To those saying this guy is a moron, here is Ron Paul saying essentially the same exact thing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVRbvIYAP54

[angelatc]

Todd Akin is a worthless piece of shit.

Yes, but so is McCaskill. The dumb ass had a really good chance of beating her, but that just vaporized.

[angelatc]

To those saying this guy is a moron, here is Ron Paul saying essentially the same exact thing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVRbvIYAP54

I heard him say he would give the victim a medical treatment to prevent pregnancy, so maybe you can clarify?

[JorgeStevenson]

I heard him say he would give the victim a medical treatment to prevent pregnancy, so maybe you can clarify?

It seems like everybody is up in arms about the use of the word "legitimate rape". Nobody cares what he said before or after, which appeared like a reasonable position that would ordinarily not make headlines. All I am pointing out is that Ron Paul used the term "honest rape" which is probably supposed to mean the same thing. The controversy stems from the use of a positive adjective in front of the word "rape", which in our discussions is always supposed to be evil even though there are cases where it is only considered rape because some dude made up an arbitrary age cut-off.

[angelatc]

It seems like everybody is up in arms about the use of the word "legitimate rape". Nobody cares what he said before or after, which appeared like a reasonable position that would ordinarily not make headlines. All I am pointing out is that Ron Paul used the term "honest rape" which is probably supposed to mean the same thing. The controversy stems from the use of a positive adjective in front of the word "rape", which in our discussions is always supposed to be evil even though there are cases where it is only considered rape because some dude made up an arbitrary age cut-off.

What I heard him say, subject to my interpretation, was that a woman who was raped and went to the hospital as part of the subsequent legal process when reporting the crime, should receive medical treatment to prevent the pregnancy. On the other hand, women who were seeking abortions when they were seven months along might not be telling the truth about the conception.

I am a woman, and I believe he's probably quite right.

[Lucille]

The Stupid, Evil Party strikes again. It's just so embarrassing, and if it weren't so consequential, it would be even more funny.

The Todd Akin Guide to Female Biology (http://reason.com/blog/2012/08/20/the-todd-akin-guide-to-female-biology)


There are times when a politician says something jaw-droppingly stupid without unleashing any political consequences. This is not one of those times. The GOP is pretty much required to win this race if wants to retake the Senate this year, and you can safely anticipate that Democrats in other close races will try to tie Akin to their opponents. Mitt Romney condemned the comment this morning, and he isn't the only Republican on the ballot who has jumped to distance himself from the Missourian. Expect more.

Josh Kraushaar has posted an interesting rundown of the political takeaways here. You should read the whole thing, but the main points are these:


Believe it or not, Akin could still win.
The Republicans sure have been nominating a lot of crappy Senate candidates lately.
The Tea Party movement is not to blame for most of those crappy candidates.
Akin isn't likely to drop out.
Obama's going to pounce on this.

They should force him out. It's not like the GOP organizations at any level actually care about their own party rules.


Do we have to be republicans?

I would hope so! We don't have to be Republicans though. ;) (Balko (http://www.theagitator.com/2012/08/20/a-quick-observation/): "Remind me again why libertarians and Republicans are natural allies? Because I’m not seeing it.")

[Brian4Liberty]

I don't get what's so dumb about his comment, other than that he used the phrase "legitimate rape" which is obviously read meat for the left.

Isn't he basically acknowledging that there are cases where women cry wolf when it was actually consensual sex? And that, in the cases where that didn't happen, that he's talked to doctors who say the body has some natural defenses against that? And if, God forbid, those defenses didn't work and the victim does get pregnant, that it is not our place to punish the baby but rather the rapist?

It was a dumb way of phrasing it, but I don't think this was some sort of deliberate communication that he thinks women never are actually raped, or that he believes some kind of "if she floats, she's a witch!" way of figuring out if somebody was raped.


It seems like everybody is up in arms about the use of the word "legitimate rape". Nobody cares what he said before or after, which appeared like a reasonable position that would ordinarily not make headlines. All I am pointing out is that Ron Paul used the term "honest rape" which is probably supposed to mean the same thing. The controversy stems from the use of a positive adjective in front of the word "rape", which in our discussions is always supposed to be evil even though there are cases where it is only considered rape because some dude made up an arbitrary age cut-off.

The newly coined term, "legitimate rape", carries with it an accusation that a person might lie about rape. That is insulting to anyone who has been raped. At the same time, it is not unheard of for a person to lie about rape. In a situation where the only "legitimate reason" for an abortion is "rape", the incentive is created for making up a rape story in order to receive an abortion. Perhaps that is how the combination of "legitimate" and "rape" was conceived.

[angelatc]

The Stupid, Evil Party strikes again. It's just so embarrassing, and if it weren't so consequential, it would be even more funny.



I'd still like to hear it in context before I condemn him to eternal hell over it. Liberals are quite good at shrieking indignation over distorted quotes.

[angelatc]

The newly coined term, "legitimate rape", carries with it an accusation that a person might lie about rape. That is insulting to anyone who has been raped. At the same time, it is not unheard of for a person to lie about rape. In a situation where the only "legitimate reason" for an abortion is "rape", the incentive is created for making up a rape story in order to receive an abortion. Perhaps that is how the combination of "legitimate" and "rape" was conceived.

There's plenty of reasons to lie about being raped. Revenge, embarassment, a break up. And I'll probably get flagged for this, but I don't think rape is the same traumatic, life-altering experience that everybody makes it out to be. I knew a woman who worked at a bar, and she was sitting out front after closing waiting for her ride to come. She was kidnapped and held prisoner in a basement for months - raped, beaten, tortured and starved, the whole time.

It's something like you'd see in a movie. He kept her tied up when he wasn't around. He wouldn't let her bathe. He told her where he had buried the previous girls. She escaped one day when he fell asleep in a chair while watching her. (He dropped his cigarette, and didn't pick it back up.)

Naked, bruised, dirty, and positive that every noise she heard was him coming after her, she traveled 5 miles, hiding in bushes and under things the whole way. She recognized the apartment of an acquaintance (not a friend - someone she had only met a few times) and knocked on the door, asking if she could take a shower. (The person knew she was a missing person, talked her out of the shower, and called the police.) She had to get in the cruiser, and travel around looking for the house.

She survived with no more emotional scars than anybody else involved in a trauma.

I really don't get why rape is somehow a sacred crime.

[Lucille]

I'd still like to hear it in context before I condemn him to eternal hell over it. Liberals are quite good at shrieking indignation over distorted quotes.

I don't want him to go to eternal hell! I just want him to go away.


In a "legitimate rape," he explained, "the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down."

The problem isn't so much the legitimate rape part. These clowns have no clue what they're talking about. It reminds me of the debate where Ron had to explain what Plan B was, and if they wanted to ban that, then they'd have to ban the pill, but this guy still doesn't get it:

Rep. Todd Akin: Morning-after pills should be banned (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/08/09/rep-todd-akin-morning-after-pills-should-be-banned/)

Todd Akin will stay in Senate race, apologizes on Huckabee radio show (http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/political-fix/akin-has-until-tuesday-to-exit-race/article_5a8f74b2-eadf-11e1-8c55-001a4bcf6878.html)


Akin, who is running for U.S. Senate against incumbent Claire McCaskill, has until Tuesday at 5 p.m. to withdraw, according to Missouri election law. That law allows candidates to leave the ballot 11 weeks before election day, otherwise he would need a court order. The Republican state committee would have two weeks to name a replacement, under the law.

Not that the neo-Trot establishment would put up anyone better...

[angelatc]

According to Physicians For Life, Aikin is right. http://www.physiciansforlife.org/content/view/492/26/

[RP Supporter]

Meanwhile, news is buzzing that Akin will be dropping out tomorrow. Republicans are really urging him too, apparently.

So maybe something good comes from this, if we get Brunner.

[Brian4Liberty]

Meanwhile, news is buzzing that Akin will be dropping out tomorrow. Republicans are really urging him too, apparently.

So maybe something good comes from this, if we get Brunner.

If he dropped out, the GOP central committee would probably choose his replacement. No time for an election. Or there would be a write-in campaign.

[Brian4Liberty]

Another forum hiccup.

[RP Supporter]

If he dropped out, the GOP central committee would probably choose his replacement. No time for an election. Or there would be a write-in campaign.

Apparently they would chose his replacement. I'd hope they'd pick Brunner, but I can't say what the heck they'd do. I do think it would be incredibly offensive if they end up picking someone like Talent who wasn't even running this time.

As an aside, I'm a little surprised the GOP lashed out so hard at Akin. The comments were very offensive, sure. But me thinks they feel that he could really cost them a seat, and after the O'Donnell mess they want to avoid that.

[Brian4Liberty]

Breaking:


Brunner Preparing for Akin Dropout Scenario (http://hotlineoncall.nationaljournal.com/archives/2012/08/primary-rival-p.php)

[AJ Antimony]

He and the other candidate (Steelman?) attacked each other back and forth. Akin,who ran a "clean" campaign, looked really nice to a lot of people who were fed up with the negativity.

As an aside, this is what happened with Thompson in Wisconsin too. Hovde surged into the lead, other candidate started attacking him, and Thompson stayed out of it.

+1 It's almost like there are lessons to be learned here...

[AJ Antimony]

Apparently they would chose his replacement. I'd hope they'd pick Brunner, but I can't say what the heck they'd do. I do think it would be incredibly offensive if they end up picking someone like Talent who wasn't even running this time.

As an aside, I'm a little surprised the GOP lashed out so hard at Akin. The comments were very offensive, sure. But me thinks they feel that he could really cost them a seat, and after the O'Donnell mess they want to avoid that.

If Brunner has another $7 million lying around, the GOP would be smart to select him

[Hyperion]

Apparently they would chose his replacement. I'd hope they'd pick Brunner, but I can't say what the heck they'd do. I do think it would be incredibly offensive if they end up picking someone like Talent who wasn't even running this time.

As an aside, I'm a little surprised the GOP lashed out so hard at Akin. The comments were very offensive, sure. But me thinks they feel that he could really cost them a seat, and after the O'Donnell mess they want to avoid that.

Surely they would pick Brunner since he came in second. At least logically, that's what should happen.

[RP Supporter]

They should pick Brunner, and I think they will. But keep in mind the GOP might want to go with someone they can "rely" on. I can't see them picking Steelman since she came in third, but they might just decide to pick a unity figure of some sort who did not even run in the primary. Hopefully not.

Meanwhile, Akin's saying he's staying in, but the national GOP wants him out. Hannity of all people more or less told him to drop out, and he seems to be wavering. Based on the pressure, I think he's gone soon.

I feel a tiny bit sorry for him. He's an idiot, but remember the controversy with Rand and the civil rights act? I shudder to think what the reaction would be if he was running this year. Akin's comments were far far worse, but I'm very uneasy with someone's extreme comments forcing them out of a race. I worry it could set a precedent that hurts one of our candidates in a future race. But if it ends up helping us in this case, I'll refrain from complaining too much. :)

[musicmax]

MO really screwed the pooch not nominating John Brunner....

According to Akin the pooch won't get pregnant.

[Brian4Liberty]

The newly coined term, "legitimate rape", carries with it an accusation that a person might lie about rape. That is insulting to anyone who has been raped. At the same time, it is not unheard of for a person to lie about rape. In a situation where the only "legitimate reason" for an abortion is "rape", the incentive is created for making up a rape story in order to receive an abortion. Perhaps that is how the combination of "legitimate" and "rape" was conceived.

Aha, it seems that this was already an issue, and the Democrats were just waiting to jump on this. Smells of set-up. My first thought on hearing this story was that he had meant to say "forcible" or "violent" instead of "legitimate". Or he may have thought that he was toning it down by using "legitimate" instead of "forcible". Kind of strange that the GOP wants to throw him under the bus too.


Akin and Ryan cosponsored a 2011 bill, the No Taxpayer Funding for Abortions Act, that would redefine rape as "forcible rape," narrowing the scope of what's considered rape in cases of abortion.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/todd-akins-rape-comments-repercussions-mitt-romney/story?id=17042555#.UDKsMqNQTk8

[Lucille]

Akin and Ryan cosponsored a 2011 bill, the No Taxpayer Funding for Abortions Act, that would redefine rape as "forcible rape," narrowing the scope of what's considered rape in cases of abortion.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/...5#.UDKsMqNQTk8

Did they call it the Whoopie Goldberg Rule (http://www.lvrj.com/blogs/sherm/Rape-rape_and_legitimate_rape.html?ref=826)?:

"I know it wasn't rape-rape. It was something else but I don't believe it was rape-rape."

Redefining Rape Is Not the Way to Stop Abortion (http://www.theamericanconservative.com/redefining-rape-is-not-the-way-to-stop-abortion/)


The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention say there are over 32,000 pregnancies a year that result from rape. But maybe those aren’t the “legitimate” rapes that Akin had in mind. His use of “legitimate” meant “real” or “properly so called” rather than “permissible,” but that doesn’t help much since it means there must be other rapes that aren’t real or aren’t properly so called. And what are they? From the context, he doesn’t seem to be talking about hoaxes, and it would be astonishing if a Republican Senate candidate were trying to define statutory rape away.
[...]
Beyond that, however, Akin’s aggressive ignorance about biology suggests something worse than overreaction to MacKinnon. If women rarely get pregnant from rape that isn’t “legitimate,” doesn’t that mean that women who do get pregnant from what they claim was rape are probably lying?

It’s not as if it’s always easy to tell the difference between “forcible” rape and any other kind: a woman who submits when a gun is pointed at her is not necessarily going to shows signs of rape inconsistent with those of consensual intercourse. Akin wasn’t trying to address difficult questions of forensic science here, but he unavoidably dismisses “legitimate” rape cases alongside those he thinks are illegitimate. His pseudo-science compounds the error.

Akin stumbled into this as he was trying to defend his position on abortion, which allows no exceptions for rape or incest. If you simply deny that there are significant numbers of women who will be forced to carry their rapists’ children to term, the problem of explaining to all women why this is a reasonable, humane course of action disappears. Reclassifying many rapes as not real or “legitimate,” while telling a fairytale about the unlikelihood of “rape-rape” leading to pregnancy, is an easy way to play down those CDC numbers and dismiss any doubts — not least your own.

[angelatc]

Did they call it the Whoopie Goldberg Rule (http://www.lvrj.com/blogs/sherm/Rape-rape_and_legitimate_rape.html?ref=826)?:

"I know it wasn't rape-rape. It was something else but I don't believe it was rape-rape."

Redefining Rape Is Not the Way to Stop Abortion (http://www.theamericanconservative.com/redefining-rape-is-not-the-way-to-stop-abortion/)

Statutory rape isn't the same as assault rape IMHO.

Anytime Whoopi says something, I instinctively disagree.

[Lucille]

Good point, Angela, and LOL...

[Brian4Liberty]

There probably was some dolt of a Doctor who gave Akin his false hypothesis about automatic pregnancy termination after rape. Akin is no doubt selectively talking to Doctors who will bolster his political position. Spontaneous abortion happens all the time (aka miscarriage) for a multitude of reasons. There is no scientific way to say that a miscarriage following a rape is the result of cause and effect, versus coincidence. (Though we can say with scientific certainty that rape will cause pregnancy).


“From what I understand from doctors, that’s really rare. If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down.”

[PaulConventionWV]

I don't get what's so dumb about his comment, other than that he used the phrase "legitimate rape" which is obviously read meat for the left.

Isn't he basically acknowledging that there are cases where women cry wolf when it was actually consensual sex? And that, in the cases where that didn't happen, that he's talked to doctors who say the body has some natural defenses against that? And if, God forbid, those defenses didn't work and the victim does get pregnant, that it is not our place to punish the baby but rather the rapist?

It was a dumb way of phrasing it, but I don't think this was some sort of deliberate communication that he thinks women never are actually raped, or that he believes some kind of "if she floats, she's a witch!" way of figuring out if somebody was raped.

My sentiments exactly.

This whole Rep. Todd thing is more overblown bullshit from the gay rights, feminist, social reprogramming agenda left. He didn't say anything truly outrageous although people make it out like it was the worst thing a person could say. Everyone will now commence patting each other on the back for speaking out against Rep. Todd because it's cool to be a liberal and it's cool to say anyone who thinks women cry wolf is evil. Believe it or not, it happens all the time. Not a great way of saying it, sure, but I don't feel the need to get my panties all in a bunch whenver some Republican says something that the left deems anti-women, sexist, bigoted, what have you. Let it go already.

It's like saying Romney hates jobs and wants to screw the economy because he likes to fire people. It's a grossly and deliberately misleading statement.

[cajuncocoa]

https://i.chzbgr.com/completestore/12/8/20/aq7PwY3Jokep15_9f17_tw2.gif

[PaulConventionWV]

There's plenty of reasons to lie about being raped. Revenge, embarassment, a break up. And I'll probably get flagged for this, but I don't think rape is the same traumatic, life-altering experience that everybody makes it out to be.

I wouldn't know how traumatic rape is, but I would add to the list of reasons to lie about rape, not wanting to tell your boyfriend it was consensual. I tend to wonder the same things as you, though. Why do we put rape on a pedestal above all other crimes? It's a crime and a heinous one, no doubt, but why is it so much worse than any other crime?

[TheTexan]

Why do we put rape on a pedestal above all other crimes? It's a crime and a heinous one, no doubt, but why is it so much worse than any other crime?

Agreed.

[Adrock]

Meanwhile, news is buzzing that Akin will be dropping out tomorrow. Republicans are really urging him too, apparently.

So maybe something good comes from this, if we get Brunner.

Looks like you may be on to something. This would be a great break if it happens. I really don't see how Akin stays in at this point. The dems are going to be pissed though. They spent 1.5 Million to support him because they expected him to flame out. They didn't expect him to flame out before the withdraw deadline though.

LINK (http://www.buzzfeed.com/bensmith/republican-source-akin-moving-to-withdraw)

UPDATE: Another Missouri GOP source suggests that John Brunner, the self-funded second-place finisher in the primary, would be a strong candidate in a state committee vote for a replacement, if Akin were to withdraw. The source said Brunner would "seriously consider" jumping back in if Akin goes.

[TheTexan]

There's plenty of reasons to lie about being raped. Revenge, embarassment, a break up. And I'll probably get flagged for this, but I don't think rape is the same traumatic, life-altering experience that everybody makes it out to be.

Odd. Outta rep ammo.

[trey4sports]

Looks like you may be on to something. This would be a great break if it happens. I really don't see how Akin stays in at this point. The dems are going to be pissed though. They spent 1.5 Million to support him because they expected him to flame out. They didn't expect him to flame out before the withdraw deadline though.

LINK (http://www.buzzfeed.com/bensmith/republican-source-akin-moving-to-withdraw)

UPDATE: Another Missouri GOP source suggests that John Brunner, the self-funded second-place finisher in the primary, would be a strong candidate in a state committee vote for a replacement, if Akin were to withdraw. The source said Brunner would "seriously consider" jumping back in if Akin goes.


Good deal! Brunner is a pretty damn good candidate. He was endorsed by YAL.

[GeorgiaAvenger]

Ron Paul
As an OB/GYN who has delivered 4000 babies and cared for expecting mothers for 40 years, my friend and colleague Todd Aiken's comments are dead wrong and very disappointing.

-facebook

[idiom]

According to Physicians For Life, Aikin is right. http://www.physiciansforlife.org/content/view/492/26/

Yeah, that cheered me up:


So, how many rape pregnancies are there? The answer is that, according to statistical reporting, there are no more than one or two pregnancies resultant from every 1000 forced rapes.

Does that make sense? Using the figure of 200,000 women who were forcibly raped, one-third were either too old or too young to get pregnant. That leaves 133,000 at risk for pregnancy.

[angelatc]

My sentiments exactly.

This whole Rep. Todd thing is more overblown bullshit from the gay rights, feminist, social reprogramming agenda left. He didn't say anything truly outrageous although people make it out like it was the worst thing a person could say. Everyone will now commence patting each other on the back for speaking out against Rep. Todd because it's cool to be a liberal and it's cool to say anyone who thinks women cry wolf is evil. Believe it or not, it happens all the time. Not a great way of saying it, sure, but I don't feel the need to get my panties all in a bunch whenver some Republican says something that the left deems anti-women, sexist, bigoted, what have you. Let it go already.

It's like saying Romney hates jobs and wants to screw the economy because he likes to fire people. It's a grossly and deliberately misleading statement.

I do love the fact that at least some of us can see through the bullshit even when we don't actually like the candidate. I mean, are any of us losing sleep over the fact that Aikin might resign? I'm not, but it has nothing to do with this statement. If he was, in fact, a strong man, he'd own this and reiterate his pro-life convictions. Instead, he can't stand the heat, and is wavering all over the place.

[ronpaulhawaii]

I'm just wondering if Todd Akin's refusal to pull out will legitimately screw the people of Missouri?

[angelatc]

I'm just wondering if Todd Akin's refusal to pull out will legitimately screw the people of Missouri?

Heh! Well, we can assume there won't be a MO-rning after pill big enough.....

[Cutlerzzz]

Possibly the dumbest thing ever to come out of the mouth of a politician not named Biden.

The thing about Guam tipping over was dumber, IMO.

[James Madison]

I find it odd that individuals are so worked-up over this non-issue and not the actual issue of abortion itself. Oh, it's not a human being....sure....whatever helps you sleep at night.

Yeah, let's bitch about some moron politician misspeaking and completely ignore the US has murdered 53 million children since 1973. But I forgot the left enjoys patting each other on the back, circle jerk style, more than actually doing something of importance. At least Reps have conviction, though misguided.

[idiom]

I find it odd that individuals are so worked-up over this non-issue and not the actual issue of abortion itself. Oh, it's not a human being....sure....whatever helps you sleep at night.

Yeah, let's bitch about some moron politician misspeaking and completely ignore the US has murdered 53 million children since 1973. But I forgot the left enjoys patting each other on the back, circle jerk style, more than actually doing something of importance. At least Reps have conviction, though misguided.

The objection is to someone having to say that you don't get pregnant if you are raped.

Sticking to the facts is difficult, yes, when both sides are operating from completely different sets of known facts.

Apparently none of those 53 million children were conceived during rape because that is now biologically impossible.

[Bastiat's The Law]

he didn't win because akin and steelman went negative.... he won because the incumbent democrat (claire mccaskil) saturated the market with ads about how Akin is just too conservative. she ran those ads the week leading up to the republican primary. She ran those ads trying to help Akin win because he polls the worst against her.
This. The Dems piled on hoping Akin would pull out the win and give them an easier opponent, obviously both strategies worked. Akin is an idiot.

[Bastiat's The Law]

If he dropped out, the GOP central committee would probably choose his replacement. No time for an election. Or there would be a write-in campaign.
This is yet another reason why everyone here should be involved within the party. We should have our people manning the GOP central committee in every state just in case these situation arise.

[Bastiat's The Law]

Apparently they would chose his replacement. I'd hope they'd pick Brunner, but I can't say what the heck they'd do. I do think it would be incredibly offensive if they end up picking someone like Talent who wasn't even running this time.

As an aside, I'm a little surprised the GOP lashed out so hard at Akin. The comments were very offensive, sure. But me thinks they feel that he could really cost them a seat, and after the O'Donnell mess they want to avoid that.
I think they're pissed that he fumbled the ball on the 1 yard line.

Akin and Paul Ryan are also tied to a bill that dems will beat the republicans and Romney over the head with this. This will be in the media 24/7 and it will hurt Romney's campaign.

[James Madison]

The objection is to someone having to say that you don't get pregnant if you are raped.

Sticking to the facts is difficult, yes, when both sides are operating from completely different sets of known facts.

Apparently none of those 53 million children were conceived during rape because that is now biologically impossible.

I agree the statement was idiotic. It just frustrates me when Americans, the masters of selective outrage, can't get their priorities in order. To hell with more wars, police state, and debt, I'm gonna spend all my time on some dumbass politician.

[parocks]

Possibly the dumbest thing ever to come out of the mouth of a politician not named Biden.

"Stress has an impact on just about every area of the body, including the reproductive area. Therefore it is easy to conclude that if stress is present, reproductive issues will be also."

http://parentingsquad.com/relaxing-won-t-get-you-pregnant-or-will-it

[parocks]

Lol. I didn't think about that, but yes, it would logically follow.

I think that based on what he said, it would logically follow that if she gets pregnant, it's more likely that she wanted it. Because he never said that you can't get pregnant from rape, just that the body produces chemicals (stress related perhaps) or hormones, that decrease the chances of becoming pregnant. And because
people aren't very smart, they can't tell the difference between 2 similar, but distinct ideas.

Statement 1) “First of all, from what I understand from doctors [pregnancy from rape] is really rare,” Akin told KTVI-TV in an interview posted Sunday.

well, is it rare? does anyone actually know this? or are people just assuming that he's wrong? Because the same msm who spread the newsletter stories (as if they were new) right when Ron Paul had momentum going into Iowa, is pretending that this is beyond the pale.

Statement 2) “If it’s a legitimate rape, - he draws a distinction between violent, stranger on stranger attacks and other types of rape, which neither person realized was a rape until the woman talked to her feminist friends or the woman gets back with her old boyfriend, who didn't know he was broken up at all. Those rapes might actually become rapes because of the pregnancy. "Uh, they said you conceived on Feb 23, within a week either way. I didn't see you in February or March, you were at college and I was at a different college. It most certainly is not my baby. I don't like this one bit." "I have something terrible to tell you." This happens in the world today. I wouldn't mind this guy going off on this. The feminists have been pushing the idea that all sex is rape, and a lot of people have gone to jail for things they didn't "realize" were wrong at the time. And then I'd bring in a wedge issue that doesn't hurt us, transsexuals, and just point out that they're all part of one big weird group, and then he can push McGaskill into defending transsexuals and Andrea Dworkin. The beauty of this strategy is that it very easily could hurt Romney. And Romney has been quite the cheater who deserves to lose.


Statement 3) the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down.” - Well, does it? Stress makes it harder to get Pregnant.

Does this statement seem ridiculous to you. "the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down. LIKE THE RELEASE OF STRESS HORMONES." Does the idea that the female body evolved/was created to create condidtions that make it less likely to become pregnant under bad circumstances (stress, not a good situation to become pregnant in) strike you as bizarre, the most stupid thing ever?

Relaxing Won’t Get You Pregnant…or Will It?
http://parentingsquad.com/relaxing-won-t-get-you-pregnant-or-will-it
"Stress has an impact on just about every area of the body, including the reproductive area. Therefore it is easy to conclude that if stress is present, reproductive issues will be also."

Assault Rape Pregnancies Are Rare
http://www.physiciansforlife.org/content/view/492/26/
"Finally, factor in what is certainly one of the most important reasons why a rape victim rarely gets pregnant, and that's psychic trauma. Every woman is aware that stress and emotional factors can alter her menstrual cycle. To get and stay pregnant a woman's body must produce a very sophisticated mix of hormones. Hormone production is controlled by a part of the brain that is easily influenced by emotions. There's no greater emotional trauma that can be experienced by a woman than an assault rape. This can radically upset her possibility of ovulation, fertilization, and implantation."


It's pretty amazing that people who are so sensitive to media bias against Ron Paul are so oblivious to media bias when someone else is being attacked.

[parocks]

I don't get what's so dumb about his comment, other than that he used the phrase "legitimate rape" which is obviously read meat for the left.

Isn't he basically acknowledging that there are cases where women cry wolf when it was actually consensual sex? And that, in the cases where that didn't happen, that he's talked to doctors who say the body has some natural defenses against that? And if, God forbid, those defenses didn't work and the victim does get pregnant, that it is not our place to punish the baby but rather the rapist?

It was a dumb way of phrasing it, but I don't think this was some sort of deliberate communication that he thinks women never are actually raped, or that he believes some kind of "if she floats, she's a witch!" way of figuring out if somebody was raped.

This

Is

Correct

[parocks]

He is claiming that in the case of rape the female body naturally shuts down its reproduction organs so that conception almost never occurs. He is reading from a very special textbook.

No, he didn't say that. Stress releases chemicals/hormones, and the chemicals interfere with the ability to carry the baby to term.

Does that seem far-fetched to you? A lot of things have to go pretty well, chemically, homonally, for the woman to carry the baby to term.

I would imagine that being raped would create stress, in addition to physical trauma, and because of that, the pregnancy rates would be lowered.

I can imagine a scenario where if there's physical trauma, the body is going to create the materials, release the chemicals, to heal the wounds and not make the chemicals and materials for the baby to grow. Does that seem far fetched to you? Or is it common sense?

[DamianTV]

That has to be the most ignorant thing I have ever heard. Any woman that is raped that is able to bear a child can get pregnant as a result of the rape. When rape doesnt result in a pregnancy, it very well could be because it was prixon sex between two men, and that doesnt require that one of them was exactly willing.

[parocks]

Yea, he maybe an idiot. But I wouldn't be surprised if there is some truth to what he said. Depression, stress and add in a little fasting after the rape and the human body could sense distress and switch to survival mode terminating the pregnancy. It something that sounds possible but you just don't open your mouth without solid evidence.

Wow, that sounds like exactly what would likely happen.

Yes, you simply must never say anything prolife, especially don't author legislation which has anything to do with rape. Because it's a minefield. Oh, he said "legitimate rape" instead of "attack rape". Yeah, oh, "insensitive" not wrong. Because the left just doesn't like that.

Let's assume the R's lose this seat. Perhaps the media will spend 100% of their time attacking this guy, and the Rs will win everything else. Like what Christine O'Donnell did in 2010. The Republicans had historic wins in 2010. The msm used all its attack on O'Donnell, and Rs won big. If the msm spread out their attacks, the Rs wouldn't have done so well.

I'd like to see Akin go right on the attack. Learn the science and explain it. He's basically right. He never said never gets pregnant. I'd like to see more discussion of legitimate rapes vs other kinds. Have there been false rape charges filed ever? Discuss the common story of high school girls with trustfunds accusing their teacher of rape. They made a movie about that called "Wild Things". Talk about crazy feminists who think "all sex is rape". Tell people that the crazy feminists who think that gender is socially determined are giving you a society where men wearing dresses can sue and win the ability to use the womens room. Those people can mutilate themselves now, and the government will allow them to officially change their official gender based on that. Are you with them and Claire, or with me, someone who understands that society is out of control, the feminazis, etc. Talk like that. COD couldn't survive, this guy probably won't, but let him make McGaskill embrace the transsexuals. Pro-life is about 50/50. Voters in MO would not legalize gay marriage and the transsexuals are even less popular. If this election isn't to be about jobs/economy "I am Romney. The economy is bad. Obama is the one who is President now. I am not the one who is President now." but social issues, I'd definitely like to see the Democrats defend their transsexuals and everything else in that leftist sex weirdness culture.

[parocks]

That has to be the most ignorant thing I have ever heard. Any woman that is raped that is able to bear a child can get pregnant as a result of the rape. When rape doesnt result in a pregnancy, it very well could be because it was prixon sex between two men, and that doesnt require that one of them was exactly willing.

You don't get what he was saying. He wasn't saying it was impossible. He was saying that the stress of the event (creating stress hormones to be released which don't help pregnancy), and often physical trauma (creating wounds that the body needs to expend resources - that the baby needs to live - to heal).

The physical and psychological trauma of the rape makes it less likely for the pregnancy to continue to term. That is what he was saying. And to me, it's common sense. And I just read the ravings of a feminist on the NYT blog, who uses the word "debunked" a lot. Liberals think science is socially determined. They would prefer to think that getting the shit beat of you and raped is not going to make it a little bit harder to have a baby. And they want, for some fucked up reason, to have normal people say the same thing. The people doing the bitching and moaning are the women's studies majors.

Myth About Rape and Pregnancy Is Not New - NYTimes.com

Yeah, people have believed versions of this for a long time, because there's definitely an element of truth there. It makes sense. Beat up vs not beat up. Which one of these do you think is more likely to have the successful pregnancy?

[DamianTV]

This argument is ridiculus.

Its like saying the human body can tell the difference between murder and being executed. Oh wait, its the exact same thing. Rape is FUCKING Rape. And the biology can not tell the difference. Oh, heres a sperm, heres an egg, congrats, youre preggers! Whats this concentual sex thing you speak of? I get really sick of people twisting their conclusions to disprove logic.

[parocks]

It seems like everybody is up in arms about the use of the word "legitimate rape". Nobody cares what he said before or after, which appeared like a reasonable position that would ordinarily not make headlines. All I am pointing out is that Ron Paul used the term "honest rape" which is probably supposed to mean the same thing. The controversy stems from the use of a positive adjective in front of the word "rape", which in our discussions is always supposed to be evil even though there are cases where it is only considered rape because some dude made up an arbitrary age cut-off.

Ah, I missed that. Right, are they drawing a distinction between assault rapes and statutory rapes? Or is it between "made up not exactly rapes except to the feminists who think everything is rape and lies" and other "legitimate" or "honest" rapes?

[parocks]

This argument is ridiculus.

Its like saying the human body can tell the difference between murder and being executed. Oh wait, its the exact same thing. Rape is FUCKING Rape. And the biology can not tell the difference. Oh, heres a sperm, heres an egg, congrats, youre preggers! Whats this concentual sex thing you speak of? I get really sick of people twisting their conclusions to disprove logic.

NO. IT'S MORE COMPLICATED THAN THAT.

We're talking about more than just a sperm fertilizing an egg. We're talking about the baby growing after that. When a woman is hurt, it's hard for her to grow a baby inside of her. The body heals the wounds instead of growing the baby. Is this hard to understand?

[Bastiat's The Law]

Have you ever spoken with a woman that has been raped? Probably not. Many tend to comply with their attacker so they don't get beat or killed and try to relax (if that's possible) so they don't get torn vaginally or anally.

[DamianTV]

NO. IT'S MORE COMPLICATED THAN THAT.

We're talking about more than just a sperm fertilizing an egg. We're talking about the baby growing after that. When a woman is hurt, it's hard for her to grow a baby inside of her. The body heals the wounds instead of growing the baby. Is this hard to understand?

Um. NO, its not. Rape is Rape.

And for the matter, if the VICTIM does happen to become pregnant as a result of the ATTACK, what makes anyone think that they have ANY right to tell the VICTIM what they can and can not do with their own body? Heres the thing. Someone gets murdered, and its obvious who did the murder. No one else gets to say anything about what happens to the accused, except a JURY. So why should what the woman does with her body be any different? Her body is no one elses property, which is what this entire thing is about. No one else gets to say whether or not she keeps the baby. And your argument about the body healing is such utter bullshit that I think it does a truly outstanding job of showing just how out of touch with reality the Religious Right are. And more importantly, just how disconnected from the rest of the people they (not you) would impose their Religious Beliefs on without regards to the idea that many people dont even want it. But lets try an analogy. Its like saying you cant get a cavity because your leg is broken. The human body is an amazing machine and is capable of doing amazing things under the most incredibly absurdly stressful situations. But by the same token, lets go after the Stress. Its also like saying stressed out teenagers wont get pregnant if they fuck because they are too stressed out about being teenagers. Let me try another analogy. Just because your computer is playing a game doesnt mean it cant get a virus. It is just as vunerable when you are running a game as when you arent. That is the way programs work. They either work, or they dont. The end result is that there is absolutely nothing more complicated than a sperm and an egg. They do what they are supposed to do. Nothing more complicated than that. And Rape by any other name is still Rape.

[parocks]

Have you ever spoken with a woman that has been raped? Probably not. Many tend to comply with their attacker so they don't get beat or killed and try to relax (if that's possible) so they don't get torn vaginally or anally.

Sure. However, do you think that the rape would be more violent, or do you think the consensual sex act would be more violent?

Just try to average out the amount of violence and the amount of physical harm from the rapes, and the amount of violence and physical harm from consensual sex, and I bet you'll find that the rapes are, on average, more violent and harmful. Not arguing anything about what might happen in any particular case, just that, on average,
rapes are more physically damaging than consensual.

Do you disagree?

[parocks]

We're talking about the likelihood of a successful pregnancy after a rape and comparing it to the likelihood of a successful pregnancy after a consensual sex act.

For a number of reasons, consensual sex acts have a higher probability of leading to a successful pregnancy than rapes do.

Physical harm is more likely with rapes, and the body will work harder to repair the physical damage that occurs, on average, more frequently in rapes, than it will work on growing the baby. Does this just not make sense to you?

We're not talking about the merits of baby killing, which you seem to want to talk about. Just arguing whether a rape victim or someone who had consensual sex is more likely to have a successful pregnancy.


Um. NO, its not. Rape is Rape.

And for the matter, if the VICTIM does happen to become pregnant as a result of the ATTACK, what makes anyone think that they have ANY right to tell the VICTIM what they can and can not do with their own body? Heres the thing. Someone gets murdered, and its obvious who did the murder. No one else gets to say anything about what happens to the accused, except a JURY. So why should what the woman does with her body be any different? Her body is no one elses property, which is what this entire thing is about. No one else gets to say whether or not she keeps the baby. And your argument about the body healing is such utter bullshit that I think it does a truly outstanding job of showing just how out of touch with reality the Religious Right are. And more importantly, just how disconnected from the rest of the people they (not you) would impose their Religious Beliefs on without regards to the idea that many people dont even want it. But lets try an analogy. Its like saying you cant get a cavity because your leg is broken. The human body is an amazing machine and is capable of doing amazing things under the most incredibly absurdly stressful situations. But by the same token, lets go after the Stress. Its also like saying stressed out teenagers wont get pregnant if they fuck because they are too stressed out about being teenagers. Let me try another analogy. Just because your computer is playing a game doesnt mean it cant get a virus. It is just as vunerable when you are running a game as when you arent. That is the way programs work. They either work, or they dont. The end result is that there is absolutely nothing more complicated than a sperm and an egg. They do what they are supposed to do. Nothing more complicated than that. And Rape by any other name is still Rape.

[parocks]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stress_hormone

Stress hormones act by mobilizing energy from storage to muscles, increasing heart rate, blood pressure and breathing rate and shutting down metabolic processes such as digestion, reproduction, growth and immunity.

equals

the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/stress/SR00001 - the mayo clinic is a fairly well repected medical institution.

Cortisol also curbs functions that would be nonessential or detrimental in a fight-or-flight situation. It alters immune system responses and suppresses the digestive system, the reproductive system and growth processes.

[kathy88]

Tired of this topic. Men shouldn't even be allowed to post in this one. LOL.

[DamianTV]

We're talking about the likelihood of a successful pregnancy after a rape and comparing it to the likelihood of a successful pregnancy after a consensual sex act.

For a number of reasons, consensual sex acts have a higher probability of leading to a successful pregnancy than rapes do.

Physical harm is more likely with rapes, and the body will work harder to repair the physical damage that occurs, on average, more frequently in rapes, than it will work on growing the baby. Does this just not make sense to you?

We're not talking about the merits of baby killing, which you seem to want to talk about. Just arguing whether a rape victim or someone who had consensual sex is more likely to have a successful pregnancy.

What kind of retarded idea is that? What a fucking load of horse shit! If I were to try to insult you, it would be a complete and total waste of time because you wouldn't understand a single word of it. But what worries me is where you get the idea that these obviously made up to bias an opinion statistics are anywhere close to accurate. Anyone gullible enough to believe this would probably be gullible enough to let the Govt shove Agent Orange down their throats as well because the Govt said its "safe". Lets just say for a second you go out and have sex with ten women when they are at their most fertile. 5 of which are concentual, the other 5 are rape, and I sure as hell hope you wouldnt do that because that is really the only way anyone is going to get a truly unbiased scientific study.

The reason I brought up abortion is because this entire wad of turd infested numers is a prelude to the obvious next step: trying to force the Religious Right's OPINION onto the VICTIMS of RAPE by trying yet again to make Abortion completely Illegal. This is a scheme. The malicious control freak mentality has its fingerprints all over this thing, and I dont even want to know what else they've gotten into the mix other than fingerprints. It should be as obvious as shit stinks that this is as much of a Scam as a fucking Bernie Madoff Ponzi Scheme. By trying to even imply that Rape Victims dont get pregnant or get pregnant less is nothing more than another excuse to make abortion illegal in order to satisfy the whims of the Immoral Majority. I dont know if you fall into that category or not, and dont really care. The only thing that I care about is shooting down every piss poor excuse to impose the Religious Law onto people, because once this idea gets shoved down our throats, it wont be long before the Religious become the Persecuters and everyone else becomes the Persecuted. This whole thing stinks of the Religious Rhetoric and if you cant see that, then there is something wrong with your noodle.

Let me put it this way. I was in the Military. I took an oath to protect the citizens of this country from all enemies foreign and domestic. And we have enough domestic enemies already, we dont need more. The people that take their oath to defend the people seriously are ready to fight and lay down their lives to prevent others from imposing their beliefs, whether religious, malicious, or just misguided, forcibly onto a population. I will fight you on this every step of the way. I think you would do best to take your misguided rape victims dont get pregnant bullshit elsewhere, because it is obviously not compatible with Liberty.

[parocks]

Here's some science for you. You might want to incorporate some facts into your "thinking".



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16866318

We found confirmation that prolonged stress or the prolonged elevation of cortisol can impair reproductive processes in female pigs,
but also found that there appear to be some female pigs in which reproduction is resistant to such treatments.


http://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/handle/2027.42/35107

Stress and female reproductive function: A study of daily variations in cortisol, gonadotrophins, and gonadal steroids in a rural Mayan population

Increases in urinary cortisol levels were associated with significant increases in gonadotrophin and progestin levels during the follicular phase.
Also, in a time window between days 4 and 10 after ovulation, increased cortisol levels were associated with significantly lower progestin levels.
These results are significant because untimely increases in gonadotrophins and low midluteal progesterone levels have previously been reported to
impinge on the ovulatory and luteinization processes and to reduce the chances of successful implantation (Ferin, 1999; Baird et al., 1999).



What kind of retarded idea is that? What a fucking load of horse shit! If I were to try to insult you, it would be a complete and total waste of time because you wouldn't understand a single word of it. But what worries me is where you get the idea that these obviously made up to bias an opinion statistics are anywhere close to accurate. Anyone gullible enough to believe this would probably be gullible enough to let the Govt shove Agent Orange down their throats as well because the Govt said its "safe". Lets just say for a second you go out and have sex with ten women when they are at their most fertile. 5 of which are concentual, the other 5 are rape, and I sure as hell hope you wouldnt do that because that is really the only way anyone is going to get a truly unbiased scientific study.

The reason I brought up abortion is because this entire wad of turd infested numers is a prelude to the obvious next step: trying to force the Religious Right's OPINION onto the VICTIMS of RAPE by trying yet again to make Abortion completely Illegal. This is a scheme. The malicious control freak mentality has its fingerprints all over this thing, and I dont even want to know what else they've gotten into the mix other than fingerprints. It should be as obvious as shit stinks that this is as much of a Scam as a fucking Bernie Madoff Ponzi Scheme. By trying to even imply that Rape Victims dont get pregnant or get pregnant less is nothing more than another excuse to make abortion illegal in order to satisfy the whims of the Immoral Majority. I dont know if you fall into that category or not, and dont really care. The only thing that I care about is shooting down every piss poor excuse to impose the Religious Law onto people, because once this idea gets shoved down our throats, it wont be long before the Religious become the Persecuters and everyone else becomes the Persecuted. This whole thing stinks of the Religious Rhetoric and if you cant see that, then there is something wrong with your noodle.

Let me put it this way. I was in the Military. I took an oath to protect the citizens of this country from all enemies foreign and domestic. And we have enough domestic enemies already, we dont need more. The people that take their oath to defend the people seriously are ready to fight and lay down their lives to prevent others from imposing their beliefs, whether religious, malicious, or just misguided, forcibly onto a population. I will fight you on this every step of the way. I think you would do best to take your misguided rape victims dont get pregnant bullshit elsewhere, because it is obviously not compatible with Liberty.

[silverhandorder]

Why do we expect the guy to know science in the first place? I have no bone in here. Lose or win for this guy idc. But why is it so important to attack him over his oppinion when he isn't even the only one that holds it. I bet most of bible belt elected republicans are again abortion in any case.

[DamianTV]

Why dont we let the Good Doctor settle this:


Ron Paul
As an OB/GYN who has delivered 4000 babies and cared for expecting mothers for 40 years, my friend and colleague Todd Aiken's comments are dead wrong and very disappointing.

-facebook

(I have not validated this statement as being authentic because I do not and will not use facebook)

If you'd like I can go Google ToddAkinForums.com and post the link for you...

[sparebulb]

Tired of this topic. Men shouldn't even be allowed to post in this one. LOL.

As a male, I've been tired of this topic from the start. That being said, I'm still going to vote for Akin. Why in the world would I, or anyone else, with a brain think that Claire is now magically better based on Akin's stupid ramblings? It would take a real emotion-based voter to switch their vote over this stupid stuff.

Claire is continuing her "don't throw me in the briar patch" strategy by being sympathetic to Akin and questioning the GOP's willingness to throw him, Missouri voter's chosen candidate, under the bus. She has been devilishly clever in her political career. She won against neocon hack/douche, Jim Talent, by brilliantly moving around to the right of him on several issues. Of course, her voting record since shows no semblance of that.

[Lucille]

I Don’t Care What Rep. Akin Thinks about Rape
http://blog.independent.org/2012/08/21/i-dont-care-what-rep-akin-thinks-about-rape/


I shouldn’t have to care. He’s not my doctor. Neither his nor any other politician’s opinion on the matter should have any bearing on or meaning for my life or anyone else’s.

I shouldn’t have to care what Mayor Bloomberg thinks about nursing vs. formula for babies. Nor for what Senator Harkin thinks birth control pills are helpful.

They are all free, of course, to have an opinion on all kinds of things. But what those opinions are should have absolutely no bearing on the choices and decisions I or any other woman faces with regard to her reproductive life.

Any society rooted in a natural law tradition, as is the United States, recognizes rape as a crime. A politician might thus comment on or make promises in the course of a campaign that he or she would, if elected or reelected, work to make sure there is less rape.

But if I were raped, the sole recourse I would seek from the state is that the rapist be brought to justice that includes providing me as the victim with restitution.

How I would deal with the physical after effects would be an unfortunate process for me to pursue with my medical care providers—ideally paid for by the damages collected from the perpetrator, but if not, by insurance or a non-profit whose purpose is the support of rape victims.

That we can increasingly expect to hear every Tom, Dick, and Harry running for office in any capacity weigh in on our bodies ought to sicken every woman.

This is what happens when you politicize healthcare.

[Brian4Liberty]

I Don’t Care What Rep. Akin Thinks about Rape


Yep. It's the establishment red herring. It's working great in this case. No need to discuss real issues.

It's been far too long since we had a good old fashioned evolution vs. creation debate. Maybe they'll save that for a Vice-Presidential debate...

[Lucille]

http://blog.nj.com/njv_paul_mulshine/2012/08/a_good_rp_interview.html


It never occurs to a character like Akin that under the constitution a congressman should have no role one way or the other on abortion.

And it hasn't occurred to the national Republican Party either. They're so busy pandering to the pro-life lobby that they have abandoned all conservative principle.

This is a big mistake. And thanks to Akin's idiocies, they may pay for it by handing control of the Senate to the Democrats.

The funny thing here is, these guys all think Ron is some sort of a nut.

Well if Ron Paul's nuts, I'll bet they now wish Akin sounded a little nuttier as well.

2012 Senate Balance of Power (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/archive/2012_senate_balance_of_power)

[idiom]

I did come across this:

http://i.imgur.com/23OPw.jpg

[idiom]

And this one...

http://i.qkme.me/3qlgzc.jpg

[Number19]

I've only read through the first couple pages, and I have no idea if the following ever crossed Akins' mind - in fact, I rather doubt it - but radical feminists define "rape" as any sexual intercourse between men and woman - even if it is consensual and even it it is between husband and wife. Within this context, a distinction could plausibly be made between "legitimate rape" and "illegitimate rape" - but, of course, feminists might disagree and conservatives would reject this definition of "rape".

[Mundane]

I don't get what's so dumb about his comment, other than that he used the phrase "legitimate rape" which is obviously read meat for the left.

Isn't he basically acknowledging that there are cases where women cry wolf when it was actually consensual sex? And that, in the cases where that didn't happen, that he's talked to doctors who say the body has some natural defenses against that? And if, God forbid, those defenses didn't work and the victim does get pregnant, that it is not our place to punish the baby but rather the rapist?

It was a dumb way of phrasing it, but I don't think this was some sort of deliberate communication that he thinks women never are actually raped, or that he believes some kind of "if she floats, she's a witch!" way of figuring out if somebody was raped.

That was essentially my impression as well and I am not hard core pro-life. I think it's been blown way out of proportion. It reminded me a little bit of Ron Paul when he used the term "honest rape". I knew what he meant and as a woman I was not offended.

[parocks]

I've only read through the first couple pages, and I have no idea if the following ever crossed Akins' mind - in fact, I rather doubt it - but radical feminists define "rape" as any sexual intercourse between men and woman - even if it is consensual and even it it is between husband and wife. Within this context, a distinction could plausibly be made between "legitimate rape" and "illegitimate rape" - but, of course, feminists might disagree and conservatives would reject this definition of "rape".

On Schiff's radio show, he talked about this issue in great detail. The definition of rape has changed in the last 30 years. That is exactly was Akin was talking about. Not that the courts fully agree with the feminists, but they're starting to accept many of their arguments. The idea that a drunk woman can never consent, and therefore is always raped is something that might be the law in some states. Since we're talking about Cortisol, and its ability to mess up the reproductive system, and
Cortisol is released under stress conditions, it's important to distinguish between violent / forceable / assault rape which is stressful and which releases Cortisol, and "drunken sex, which is now considered" rape which is not stressful, and does not cause the release of Cortisol.