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Havax
08-17-2012, 03:50 PM
in terms of placing your hand across your chest, taking off your hat, facing the flag, stopping what you were otherwise doing, and/or mouthing along to the words.

Really had to think about it the last time I did it. Feels like a submissive act towards the state at this point to be honest. I love my country, but I don't want to blindly bow down to the state.

sailingaway
08-17-2012, 03:52 PM
In Vancouver Washington, when Ron was there, they didn't have a flag, so one of the people who put the rally on asked if it was ok to say the pledge to a pocket Constitution. The crowd loved it, and so do I, actually.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2Xp-sYMbLE

James Madison
08-17-2012, 03:53 PM
As a Christian, I do not. As a free human being, I do not. As a decendant of pioneers and trailblazers, I do not.

Havax
08-17-2012, 03:54 PM
Thread updated: meant to say national anthem, not pledge of allegiance. But if you don't do one, you probably don't do the either, either.

JK/SEA
08-17-2012, 04:06 PM
At a game i usually stand and do light exercise and stretching while the sheep bleet. That way i won't be tazed and arrested.

MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2
08-17-2012, 04:29 PM
I stand, in respect of those who have been fooled before. I might take a hat off.

I recite nothing. I pledge nothing to no one, besides those I love, and pledge through my actions every day. I tell them that personally, and it's not a group chant sort of thing.

I would not mind pledging something like "to do the best I can." That's not at all what that pledge is. Once I was old enough to figure out what they were doing to me (which is embarrassingly old, imo), I stopped.

libertyjam
08-17-2012, 04:31 PM
The Star spangled Banner still chokes me up a little, even more so now that it has become such a sham.

DGambler
08-17-2012, 04:35 PM
I use to, not anymore... Feels too submissive.

Feeding the Abscess
08-17-2012, 04:45 PM
I only stand if I'm with family and don't want to bring attention to them. Don't place my hand over my chest or recite anything, though.

AGRP
08-17-2012, 04:47 PM
I don't praise the flag or the constitution. The entire concept baffles me and if you truly understand liberty then it should baffle you.

pcosmar
08-17-2012, 04:48 PM
I use to, not anymore... Feels too submissive.

I used to as well. Until looking at the honest reality rather than the fantasy.

America had so much hope 200 years ago.

heavenlyboy34
08-17-2012, 04:50 PM
I don't praise the flag or the constitution. The entire concept baffles me and if you truly understand liberty then it should baffle you.
+1 I'm required to bow to the flag before and after formal kung fu practice. I truly loathe it, but do it out of respect to custom.

Southron
08-17-2012, 05:00 PM
I will stand respectfully during the Anthem. The Pledge of Allegiance is another matter though. I can't say that and not feel dirty.

donnay
08-17-2012, 05:22 PM
The Star spangled Banner still chokes me up a little, even more so now that it has become such a sham.


Yes, I get choked up in the same manner.

Pride comes before a fall

enjerth
08-17-2012, 05:28 PM
I do honor the national anthem. I love the question at the end. It ends with a question, you know? An important one. We aught to recognize it just for that fact.

The pledge, however, I do not.

Anti Federalist
08-17-2012, 06:33 PM
I have printed up on a 3 x 5 card which I make sure to stick in my pocket when I'm going to be subjected to such nonsense as the pledge or anthem, the following.

I stand with everybody else and recite:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

Anti Federalist
08-17-2012, 06:34 PM
I do honor the national anthem. I love the question at the end. It ends with a question, you know? An important one. We aught to recognize it just for that fact.

The pledge, however, I do not.

The flag still flies, but not over a free people.

BSU kid
08-17-2012, 06:36 PM
Aye I do honor the anthem, I still love America just not the government of America.

DerailingDaTrain
08-17-2012, 06:40 PM
Yes. I don't say the Pledge of Allegiance though:


The Pledge of Allegiance was written in 1892 by Francis Bellamy (1855–1931), who was a Baptist minister, a Christian socialist, and the cousin of socialist utopian novelist Edward Bellamy (1850–1898).

Bellamy salute:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Students_pledging_allegiance_to_the_American_flag_ with_the_Bellamy_salute.jpg

heavenlyboy34
08-17-2012, 06:43 PM
Bellamy was more of a fascist, IIRC.

Rothbardian Girl
08-17-2012, 06:48 PM
I usually stand but don't say anything. I'll take a hat off if I'm wearing it. Societal pressures and all that.

PaulConventionWV
08-17-2012, 06:55 PM
This is not a form of brainwashing...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2BfqDUPL1I

DamianTV
08-17-2012, 06:59 PM
I do have one favore part.

"... and to the Republic ..."

cajuncocoa
08-17-2012, 07:01 PM
Aye I do honor the anthem, I still love America just not the government of America.^^This.

I'm guessing that most on this board love this country...that's why we're fighting so hard for it, right?

VIDEODROME
08-17-2012, 07:11 PM
The pledge seems like something our Federal officials should say. They should pledge allegiance and service to Us, the united people and states who created their offices.

John F Kennedy III
08-17-2012, 07:30 PM
I do have one favore part.

"... and to the Republic ..."

Yep. Screw democracy.

cjm
08-17-2012, 08:03 PM
I selected "no" since I don't believe I honor the national anthem, but I am just as respectful at sporting events where it is played as I would be visiting the temples of any religions that I don't personally practice. I remove my hat and I stand out of respect for my neighbors and their religion. I do not place my hand on my heart since that is a salute, and I don't sing along. I also do not judge those that honor the national anthem.

Aside from all of the flag worship, I have no problem with the gist of the song since it celebrates a defensive battle on American soil and not a foreign expedition or empire expansion. The battle is consistent with just war theory.

AGRP
08-17-2012, 08:31 PM
+1 I'm required to bow to the flag before and after formal kung fu practice. I truly loathe it, but do it out of respect to custom.

Yeah. There's gray areas with questions like this. Burning the flag or desecrating it for example. Id get pissed off just as much as anyone else and do what I can to stop it.

Origanalist
08-17-2012, 09:21 PM
This goes right to the heart of my transformation over the last ten years.

The anthem still holds water, the pledge.........no.

heavenlyboy34
08-17-2012, 09:30 PM
Yeah. There's gray areas with questions like this. Burning the flag or desecrating it for example. Id get pissed off just as much as anyone else and do what I can to stop it.
Why? It's someone else's property, and they can do what they want with it. Besides, the modern flag is symbolic of an empire, not a republic. I prefer the Gadsden flag, myself-though I don't care for symbols much. I leave symbols to the symbol-minded. ;)

PaulConventionWV
08-18-2012, 04:06 AM
Yeah. There's gray areas with questions like this. Burning the flag or desecrating it for example. Id get pissed off just as much as anyone else and do what I can to stop it.

I wouldn't.

Philhelm
08-18-2012, 09:07 AM
Regardless of what the United States is, was, or will be, the National Anthem is pretty badass.

The Pledge of Allegiance at least has "to the Republic." It's amazing what people don't process, regarding the part about the Republic, when they bleat mindlessly.

brandon
08-18-2012, 09:22 AM
I don't and won't ever honor the pledge of allegiance, but I don't mind standing up while someone sings the national anthem.

brandon
08-18-2012, 09:24 AM
The Pledge of Allegiance at least has "to the Republic." It's amazing what people don't process, regarding the part about the Republic, when they bleat mindlessly.

But it also calls the republic indivisible, completely denying state's rights to secession.

Hyperion
08-18-2012, 10:52 AM
I use to, not anymore... Feels too submissive.

This. I believe doing the anthem before every sporting event is a way to bind people closer to the state. I'll stand but won't sing a long. I do not honor the pledge either. I pledge alliegance to my values, my family and God but not to a government as out of control as the US is at the moment.

Elwar
08-18-2012, 11:28 AM
I worship the American flag as an idol.

It is what our Christian founders wanted.

CaptainAmerica
08-18-2012, 11:35 AM
never. I refuse to even stand for it. It would be the equivalent of singing songs about santa clause when I know santa clause is not real. I've always believed that actions speak louder than words. The value of life is what really matters, not a national anthem.

cajuncocoa
08-18-2012, 12:35 PM
This goes right to the heart of my transformation over the last ten years.

The anthem still holds water, the pledge.........no.That's how I feel as well.

BSU kid
08-18-2012, 03:52 PM
Star Spangled Banner > Pledge

Nickels
08-18-2012, 04:01 PM
I don't praise the flag or the constitution. The entire concept baffles me and if you truly understand liberty then it should baffle you.

and you wonder why people call libertarians anarchists.

Dr.3D
08-18-2012, 04:03 PM
But it also calls the republic indivisible, completely denying state's rights to secession.
That's "one nation, invisible."
Seems like a good cat, the government covers everything up.

Good thing the nation doesn't just consist of the government.

Dissent
08-18-2012, 04:53 PM
Not the US one. I stand when Dixie is played. I live in an occupied country. I would never pledge allegiance to it.

satchelmcqueen
08-18-2012, 04:59 PM
i do not. my kids also have chosen to not do it. they are 16 and 17. a few of my sons friends do not do it due to my son telling them how he feels about it.

heavenlyboy34
08-18-2012, 05:05 PM
and you wonder why people call libertarians anarchists.
I don't see the correlation. Explain, plz?

thehungarian
08-18-2012, 05:18 PM
I don't praise the flag or the constitution. The entire concept baffles me and if you truly understand liberty then it should baffle you.

That's sort of how I feel. I understand why people do such things and if I'm at a ballgame or something I will stand along with everyone else during the National Anthem, but I will not say the words nor pledge fealty to a flag.

thehungarian
08-18-2012, 05:19 PM
and you wonder why people call libertarians anarchists.

Many libertarians would consider themselves anarchist.

ProIndividual
08-18-2012, 06:19 PM
I do have one favore part.

"... and to the Republic ..."

Ahh..the exact part that makes it not about the people (country), but the state instead.

I do not observe group acts of submission to the state, OP. They are acts in the civil religion, to the god the state. The pledge is a prayer and the anthem is their hymn.

BuddyRey
08-18-2012, 06:25 PM
I sang it at a hockey game once, but that was a paid gig. Even if I believed in national anthems (which I don't), the Star Spangled Banner never really did anything for me.

HOLLYWOOD
08-18-2012, 06:40 PM
Jesse Ventura is so correct in his latest statements of the phony Ultra-Jingoism on Military Nationalism at sporting events.

NASCAR is disgustingly juiced on 'war power roids' pushing it...

TPTB have ruined the Baseball's '7th Inning Stretch' swapping 'Take Me Out To The Ballgame' to 'God Bless America' or 'National Anthem', or some other Joseph Goebbels state induced bellisim.

heavenlyboy34
08-18-2012, 06:48 PM
Ahh..the exact part that makes it not about the people (country), but the state instead.

I do not observe group acts of submission to the state, OP. They are acts in the civil religion, to the god the state. The pledge is a prayer and the anthem is their hymn.
This^^ (the Battle Hymn Of The Republic is pretty bad too...but fortunately not as popular)

MelissaCato
08-18-2012, 07:48 PM
Yes.

jdmyprez_deo_vindice
08-18-2012, 07:50 PM
I stand for the National Anthem and will remove my cap (if wearing one). As for the POA.. I do not say it, I do not place my hand on my heart, I do not mouth the words.

cjm
08-18-2012, 08:47 PM
TPTB have ruined the Baseball's '7th Inning Stretch' swapping 'Take Me Out To The Ballgame' to 'God Bless America' or 'National Anthem', or some other Joseph Goebbels state induced bellisim.

Say what? I was at a baseball game last year (AA), they sang "Take me out to the ballgame" at the stretch. Is this an MLB thing?

Seth
08-18-2012, 11:52 PM
and you wonder why people call libertarians anarchists.

You say that as if anarchism is bad. Ever hear of anarcho-capitalism?

Nickels
08-19-2012, 12:19 AM
You say that as if anarchism is bad. Ever hear of anarcho-capitalism?

Yes anarchism is bad. Anarcho capitalism is not anarchism, both anarchists and ancaps would agree they do not deserve that label.

BSU kid
08-19-2012, 12:20 AM
I'm surprised not that many people honor the anthem, I'm not criticizing but rather just surprised. Every country has an anthem, at least in my mind it just shows reverence to America and is noncommittal. The pledge of allegiance is a different story, and commands less respect from me.

Weston White
08-19-2012, 12:27 AM
Right...


http://factcheck.org/Images/image/2009/The_Wire/2009_11_17_Disrespectful_Posture/obama_arlington.jpg

http://theobamafile.com/_images/ObamaCrotchSaluteLarge.jpg

Weston White
08-19-2012, 12:52 AM
Many libertarians would consider themselves anarchist.

And yet without instituting the proper application of our U.S. Constitution and founding documents, there are neither any liberties nor freedoms for which to be secured; for all that would remain is individual greed, desire, and selfishness. And that is the underlying distinction between constitutionalists and libertarians.

Nickels
08-19-2012, 01:36 AM
And yet without instituting the proper application of our U.S. Constitution and founding documents, there are neither any liberties nor freedoms for which to be secured; for all that would remain is individual greed, desire, and selfishness. And that is the underlying distinction between constitutionalists and libertarians.

obviously, naive anarcho-capitalists will tell you that the market will make sure that is secured.

Seth
08-19-2012, 08:32 AM
Anarcho-capitalists never claim that a truly free society will be perfect. They simply believe any society will be better without a state than with one. You act as if individual greed, desire, and selfishness are not rampant within government. The problem with government is that it can get away with things that private individuals and corporations could never do because the people believe government force is legitimate. If say, Citigroup were to create some arbitrary laws and then force everyone to give up 10% of their income so that they could enforce these laws, the people would be in open revolt. Nobody believes Citigroup has the right to rule over their life. Yet the state gets away doing this exact thing because the people believe its power is legitimate. The national anthem and pledge of allegiance are perfect examples of the state's legitimacy being ingrained in the minds of its citizens.

LibertyEagle
08-19-2012, 08:51 AM
Yes, I stand at the National Anthem and put my hand over my heart. When I hear that song, I think not about what we have allowed people occupying our government to do, but of what this country once was. What it was supposed to be. What I want to get back.

ClydeCoulter
08-19-2012, 09:19 AM
Laurie Anderson likes the National Anthem?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cB9Fvax675Y

Schifference
08-19-2012, 01:01 PM
Makes me sick to see all the sheeple get goose bumps all over with the emotional music and the meaningless lyrics.

heavenlyboy34
08-19-2012, 01:37 PM
And yet without instituting the proper application of our U.S. Constitution and founding documents, there are neither any liberties nor freedoms for which to be secured; for all that would remain is individual greed, desire, and selfishness. And that is the underlying distinction between constitutionalists and libertarians.
LOL!!! Natural rights and freedoms have always existed-it's just that very few have codified them in a formal written instrument or law like the DoI.

Nickels
08-19-2012, 01:45 PM
LOL!!! Natural rights and freedoms have always existed-it's just that very few have codified them in a formal written instrument or law like the DoI.

always existed? then why did they bother founding a new country and codifying it? Because people ignored it? Why is this country better than others? Becuase we wrote down what everybody else did anyway?

green73
08-19-2012, 01:50 PM
I might be arrested if I answer this honestly.

green73
08-19-2012, 01:56 PM
always existed? then why did they bother founding a new country and codifying it? Because people ignored it? Why is this country better than others? Becuase we wrote down what everybody else did anyway?

The country was great because of a confluence of factors, a lack of a landed aristocracy, the burgeoning industrial revolution, vast untapped natural resources, and very little central government for the first 120 years.

heavenlyboy34
08-19-2012, 02:11 PM
always existed? then why did they bother founding a new country and codifying it? Because people ignored it?
Of course. Read the DoI.

Why is this country better than others? Becuase we wrote down what everybody else did anyway?
It's not better. It's just that enough people understand and accept the concept of natural rights (which originated in England, handed down in one way or another throughout Western Civilization) that this society was first to become "freest". Obviously that's no longer true. We have several threads around here documenting the numerous ways in which other people in the world are freer than Americans.

LibertyEagle
08-19-2012, 02:25 PM
LOL!!! Natural rights and freedoms have always existed-it's just that very few have codified them in a formal written instrument or law like the DoI.

Tell that to those who were in Stalin's gulags, or those who live under Pol Pot, or Mussolni. Just to name a few.

You really make light of what this country used to be. It's rather disgusting and something I would expect out of a leftist-progressive; not someone supporting Ron Paul's effort to reinstate the Constitution.

Seth
08-19-2012, 04:01 PM
Tell that to those who were in Stalin's gulags, or those who live under Pol Pot, or Mussolni. Just to name a few.

You really make light of what this country used to be. It's rather disgusting and something I would expect out of a leftist-progressive; not someone supporting Ron Paul's effort to reinstate the Constitution.

He's a leftist-progressive because he doesn't worship the Constitution? You bring up Stalin and Pol Pot, but look at all of the death and destruction our own government has caused even with our Constitution. I'd say most anarcho-capitalists agree that limiting the government to its Constitutional bounds is the first step. You can't just eliminate government from where we are at now. The problem is any government will grow and grow and seize more and more power no matter how small it starts. Case in point: the US.

thoughtomator
08-19-2012, 04:16 PM
When the Pledge of Allegiance comes up, I alter the verbiage for correctness to:

"I pledge allegiance to the people of the United States of America, and to the Republic, which represents their will, one nation, under God, with liberty and justice for all."

or depending on my mood, "with liberty and justice for those who can afford it"

heavenlyboy34
08-19-2012, 04:21 PM
Tell that to those who were in Stalin's gulags, or those who live under Pol Pot, or Mussolni. Just to name a few.
They denied others' natural rights, and this is irrelevant to what I said.


You really make light of what this country used to be. It's rather disgusting and something I would expect out of a leftist-progressive; not someone supporting Ron Paul's effort to reinstate the Constitution.
"Used to be"? In what sense? Americans did not always think of America as a monolith. This is an imperial impulse foisted upon us through propaganda (like the Pledge). Our forebears were generally quite humble and didn't worship state icons like flags. Why would you expect my opinion to be "leftist-progressive"? It's a classical liberal position. I'm actually very old-fashioned. (Even the authors of the founding documents recognized that rights and freedoms come to us from our creator-not from a deified State) I credit God for what liberty I have. Everything else is incidental.

Just as there are no "magic" laws of physics that only work in Europe or whatever, there are no "special" natural rights that only exist in America. These rights are universal. They are of course repressed with force and law in many places (even here), but they exist.

And btw, the "left" is where the concept of liberty came from originally. The modern "left" is a misnomer. It should be considered simply a variety of statism. Where the "left" wants the State to tackle any given objective matter one way, the "right" generally chooses the opposite. This dialectic is really quite brilliant, and has bamboozled many well-intentioned (and I consider the vast majority of RPFers well-intentioned) folks into fighting amongst themselves instead of against the State.

LibertyEagle
08-19-2012, 04:46 PM
He's a leftist-progressive because he doesn't worship the Constitution? You bring up Stalin and Pol Pot, but look at all of the death and destruction our own government has caused even with our Constitution. I'd say most anarcho-capitalists agree that limiting the government to its Constitutional bounds is the first step. You can't just eliminate government from where we are at now. The problem is any government will grow and grow and seize more and more power no matter how small it starts. Case in point: the US.

Nope. Didn't say that. Hb seems to think we never had anything special in this country. It's all so easy to have freedom. Everyone does it.

Bullshit.

That must be why so many people throughout our history wanted to come to America. Because it offered nothing special. /s




It's not better. It's just that enough people understand and accept the concept of natural rights (which originated in England, handed down in one way or another throughout Western Civilization) that this society was first to become "freest". Obviously that's no longer true. We have several threads around here documenting the numerous ways in which other people in the world are freer than Americans.

heavenlyboy34
08-19-2012, 05:17 PM
Nope. Didn't say that. Hb seems to think we never had anything special in this country. It's all so easy to have freedom. Everyone does it.

Bullshit.

That must be why so many people throughout our history wanted to come to America. Because it offered nothing special. /s
You're confusing "country" and "culture", thus distorting what I said. The culture is obviously very unique and special. The country is just a place. Had the "American Experiment" (as it's sometimes called) been tried somewhere else, it would've worked almost exactly the same way. (Much like general relativity, except in the sociological "soft science" way.) It's natural law, as was articulated by the writers like Locke who profoundly influenced American thought.

And btw, there is a name for the inductive reasoning you've been using throughout this thread. It's a fallacy called "reasoning from whole to parts". Just an aside.

BSU kid
08-19-2012, 05:30 PM
You're confusing "country" and "culture", thus distorting what I said. The culture is obviously very unique and special. The country is just a place. Had the "American Experiment" (as it's sometimes called) been tried somewhere else, it would've worked almost exactly the same way. (Much like general relativity, except in the sociological "soft science" way.) It's natural law, as was articulated by the writers like Locke who profoundly influenced American thought.

And btw, there is a name for the inductive reasoning you've been using throughout this thread. It's a fallacy called "reasoning from whole to parts". Just an aside.

Is the National Anthem not part of our culture? It is merely a time capsule into our history and culture, showing American perseverance and ideals not imperialism and conformism.

LibertyEagle
08-19-2012, 05:36 PM
You're confusing "country" and "culture", thus distorting what I said. The culture is obviously very unique and special. The country is just a place. Had the "American Experiment" (as it's sometimes called) been tried somewhere else, it would've worked almost exactly the same way. (Much like general relativity, except in the sociological "soft science" way.) It's natural law, as was articulated by the writers like Locke who profoundly influenced American thought.

And btw, there is a name for the inductive reasoning you've been using throughout this thread. It's a fallacy called "reasoning from whole to parts". Just an aside.

You are forgetting that I have watched you post for several years on here. I rarely respond to it. Until I get a belly full.

truelies
08-19-2012, 05:41 PM
I Love my Country and my American Folk which BTW doesn't include wogs with American 'citizenship' or the criminal zionist/neocons who use these imports as a tool to hold power over the American Folk.

heavenlyboy34
08-19-2012, 05:48 PM
Is the National Anthem not part of our culture? It is merely a time capsule into our history and culture, showing American perseverance and ideals not imperialism and conformism.
Do you what the anthem is about? It has quite a bit to do with imperialism, warfarism, etc. Wiki's explanation is simple, but not too bad:

"The Star-Spangled Banner" is the national anthem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_anthem) of the United States of America (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States). The lyrics come from "Defence of Fort McHenry",[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Star-Spangled_Banner#cite_note-0) a poem written in 1814 by the 35-year-old lawyer and amateur poet, Francis Scott Key (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Scott_Key), after witnessing the bombardment of Fort McHenry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_McHenry) by the British Royal Navy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Royal_Navy) ships in Chesapeake Bay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesapeake_Bay) during the Battle of Fort McHenry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Fort_McHenry) in the War of 1812 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_1812).
The poem was set to the tune of a popular British song written by John Stafford Smith (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Stafford_Smith) for the Anacreontic Society (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anacreontic_Society), a men's social club in London (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London). "The Anacreontic Song" (or "To Anacreon in Heaven (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Anacreon_in_Heaven)"), with various lyrics, was already popular in the United States. Set to Key's poem and renamed "The Star-Spangled Banner", it would soon become a well-known American patriotic song. With a range of one and a half octaves, it is known for being difficult to sing. Although the poem has four stanzas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanza), only the first is commonly sung today.
"The Star-Spangled Banner" was recognized for official use by the Navy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy) in 1889, and by President Woodrow Wilson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodrow_Wilson) in 1916, and was made the national anthem by a congressional (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Congress) resolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resolution_(law)) on March 3, 1931 (46 Stat. 1508, codified at 36 U.S.C. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_36_of_the_United_States_Code) § 301 (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/36/301.html)), which was signed by President Herbert Hoover (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Hoover).
Before 1931, other songs served as the hymns of American officialdom. "Hail, Columbia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hail,_Columbia)" served this purpose at official functions for most of the 19th century. "My Country, 'Tis of Thee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Country,_%27Tis_of_Thee)", whose melody is identical to "God Save the Queen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_Save_the_Queen)", the British national anthem,[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Star-Spangled_Banner#cite_note-1) also served as a de facto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_facto) anthem.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Star-Spangled_Banner#cite_note-2) Following the War of 1812 and subsequent American wars, other songs would emerge to compete for popularity at public events, among them "The Star-Spangled Banner".

BSU kid
08-19-2012, 05:55 PM
Do you what the anthem is about? It has quite a bit to do with imperialism, warfarism, etc. Wiki's explanation is simple, but not too bad:

"The Star-Spangled Banner" is the national anthem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_anthem) of the United States of America (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States). The lyrics come from "Defence of Fort McHenry",[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Star-Spangled_Banner#cite_note-0) a poem written in 1814 by the 35-year-old lawyer and amateur poet, Francis Scott Key (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Scott_Key), after witnessing the bombardment of Fort McHenry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_McHenry) by the British Royal Navy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Royal_Navy) ships in Chesapeake Bay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesapeake_Bay) during the Battle of Fort McHenry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Fort_McHenry) in the War of 1812 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_1812).
The poem was set to the tune of a popular British song written by John Stafford Smith (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Stafford_Smith) for the Anacreontic Society (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anacreontic_Society), a men's social club in London (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London). "The Anacreontic Song" (or "To Anacreon in Heaven (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Anacreon_in_Heaven)"), with various lyrics, was already popular in the United States. Set to Key's poem and renamed "The Star-Spangled Banner", it would soon become a well-known American patriotic song. With a range of one and a half octaves, it is known for being difficult to sing. Although the poem has four stanzas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanza), only the first is commonly sung today.
"The Star-Spangled Banner" was recognized for official use by the Navy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy) in 1889, and by President Woodrow Wilson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodrow_Wilson) in 1916, and was made the national anthem by a congressional (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Congress) resolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resolution_(law)) on March 3, 1931 (46 Stat. 1508, codified at 36 U.S.C. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_36_of_the_United_States_Code) § 301 (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/36/301.html)), which was signed by President Herbert Hoover (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Hoover).
Before 1931, other songs served as the hymns of American officialdom. "Hail, Columbia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hail,_Columbia)" served this purpose at official functions for most of the 19th century. "My Country, 'Tis of Thee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Country,_%27Tis_of_Thee)", whose melody is identical to "God Save the Queen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_Save_the_Queen)", the British national anthem,[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Star-Spangled_Banner#cite_note-1) also served as a de facto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_facto) anthem.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Star-Spangled_Banner#cite_note-2) Following the War of 1812 and subsequent American wars, other songs would emerge to compete for popularity at public events, among them "The Star-Spangled Banner".

That does nothing for me, like I said it is a time capsule. A poem turned song, from a tumultuous time in our history that was created in our defense not in an imperialistic mindset. We were defending our homes from the British, not committing an offensive against them like the current regime does in the Middle East. I'm pretty sure Francis Scott Key wasn't there thinking, "Hey, let me write a poem about our imperial nation and why all Americans should bow down to the flag." instead he was more then likely thinking about our fledgling nation, our fledgling freedoms and how they all could have been lost that day.

heavenlyboy34
08-19-2012, 05:58 PM
Kinda neat-this is the song that would become the Anthem (with different lyrics, of course): The Anacreontic Song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqyQO3xhNx0

heavenlyboy34
08-19-2012, 06:06 PM
That does nothing for me, like I said it is a time capsule. A poem turned song, from a tumultuous time in our history that was created in our defense not in an imperialistic mindset. We were defending our homes from the British, not committing an offensive against them like the current regime does in the Middle East. I'm pretty sure Francis Scott Key wasn't there thinking, "Hey, let me write a poem about our imperial nation and why all Americans should bow down to the flag." instead he was more then likely thinking about our fledgling nation, our fledgling freedoms and how they all could have been lost that day.
Not quite. It was the Americans' first war of choice. (the warhawks of that day would be proud that people actually believe what you claim today)

http://www.salon.com/2012/06/19/birth_of_the_war_hawks/
On the 200thanniversary of the War of 1812 Monday, NPR’s “Morning Edition” noted that this obscure conflict resulted in the sacking of Washington in 1814, but also gave us the Star Spangled Banner. This reassuring balance of costs and benefits makes for a tidy historical footnote while managing to gloss over the few reasons why the War of 1812 still matters today.
It matters mostly as an occasion for patriotic pomp and circumstance in the mid-Atlantic states and Canada where the war was fought. Maryland has issued a commemorative license plate, complete with bombs bursting in air. Replicas of the tall ships of that era are sailing in Baltimore Harbor. But the war also has some historical relevance. In Foreign Policy, James Traub calls the War of 1812, the “most important war you know nothing about.” (http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/06/15/war_of_1812)
The War of 1812 matters because it was America’s first war of choice. The United States did not have to declare war on Great Britain on June 18, 1812, to survive as a nation and indeed President James Madison did not want to. The newly founded United States was growing westward but the “war hawks” in Congress pressed for a conflict with America’s former colonial masters in the hopes of gaining even more territory to the north. The term “hawk” was coined in the run-up to the War of 1812 and the hawks of U.S. foreign policy have been with us ever since.
The War of 1812 was America’s first neocon war. With an audacity that would become familiar, the war hawks appealed to a combination of personal pride — the British navy was forcibly conscripting Americans — and the prospect of material gain — the absorption of British Canada — wrapped up in love of country. No one said the conquest of Canada would be a “cakewalk,” but the hawks were confident the Americans would be greeted as liberators.
Like future neoconservative wars, the War of 1812 did not go so well. Neither the citizenry nor the army was quite as ready as the hawks imagined. The Americans did destroy Indian tribes that had allied with the British but they underestimated the Canadians. U.S. forces attacking Canada were repeatedly repulsed in 1812-1814, giving the Canadians a quiet superiority complex that they have not entirely lost to this day.

BSU kid
08-19-2012, 06:14 PM
^I blame the public school system if what you say is true. :)

Hospitaller
08-19-2012, 06:17 PM
Im proud of this thread, we have pushed aside old emotional connections to an irrationality to now call something by its proper name