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sailingaway
08-15-2012, 08:09 PM
http://maineforronpaul.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/582186_10150801073092844_541412843_9758142_1180197 024_n-262x300.jpg


The RNC Committee on Contests found no evidence to support the challenge against the Maine delegation on Friday, yet failed to issue a ruling. Instead they changed their own rules, which previously required a ruling, in order to grant the contestants a second chance to retry their challenge.

“The RNC Committee on Contests could not find any evidence of fraud,” said Mark Willis, the incoming National Committeeman for Maine who holds a Doctor of Law Degree from George Mason University.

“According to their own rules, the RNC was obligated to recommend that the Maine delegates be certified,” Wilis added. ”Instead, the Committee on Contests had to create new rules to give the challengers a second chance. Such a decision is unprecedented, violates party rules and violates the due process rights of the duly elected Maine delegation. In a court of law, this challenge would have already been thrown out and dismissed.”

“It really makes me doubt the integrity of the process at the RNC,” added John Logan Jones, a National Delegate and the Republican candidate for State Representative in Falmouth. “The burden of proof is on the contestants and they failed to meet that burden. The RNC should have left it at that and certified Maine’s delegation. Instead they are reaching over backwards, changing their own rules to accommodate the Mitt Romney Campaign.”

“Over 2500 duly elected Maine Republican delegates went to Augusta and we had a democratic election,” added Ashley Ryan, incoming National Committeewoman for Maine. “The RNC and the Mitt Romney Campaign cannot invalidate Maine’s voice simply because they didn’t like the outcome.”

http://maineforronpaul.org/archives/2024

kathy88
08-15-2012, 08:11 PM
Unfucking real.

devil21
08-15-2012, 08:16 PM
They sure are determined to do almost everything they can to piss Paulites off. Im starting to think the establishment GOP's goal is to anger us so much that we abandon the party entirely.

Agorism
08-15-2012, 08:19 PM
And Rand Paul is attending that charade to speak for Romney?

satchelmcqueen
08-15-2012, 08:26 PM
chipping away at the minimum to be nominated.

sailingaway
08-15-2012, 08:27 PM
They sure are determined to do almost everything they can to piss Paulites off. Im starting to think the establishment GOP's goal is to anger us so much that we abandon the party entirely.

If they cheat Ron out of the delegates he has and needs to be nominated onto the floor for a speech, we will have to be careful how we frame all the videos of cheating and breaking bones we circulate. "Bring our party back from the cheaters" or some such meme.....

satchelmcqueen
08-15-2012, 08:27 PM
exactly. theyre fucking his dad and he is gonna play ball with them?? i hope he swerves them. if not....
And Rand Paul is attending that charade to speak for Romney?

BSU kid
08-15-2012, 09:00 PM
This stuff doesn't even surprise me anymore, what a corrupt system we play hardball in.

Keith and stuff
08-15-2012, 09:17 PM
“It really makes me doubt the integrity of the process at the RNC,” added John Logan Jones, a National Delegate and the Republican candidate for State Representative in Falmouth. “The burden of proof is on the contestants and they failed to meet that burden. The RNC should have left it at that and certified Maine’s delegation. Instead they are reaching over backwards, changing their own rules to accommodate the Mitt Romney Campaign.”
http://maineforronpaul.org/archives/2024

Like the work John Jones is putting into this? Check out his campaign. http://www.johnloganjones.com/romney_deal

torchbearer
08-15-2012, 09:20 PM
are they saying they don't need our votes to win?
do they realize they are starting 110 electors down?

sailingaway
08-15-2012, 09:23 PM
are they saying they don't need our votes to win?
do they realize they are starting 110 electors down?

And Ron OWNS the independents in swing states.

NorfolkPCSolutions
08-15-2012, 10:34 PM
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/24905339.jpg

No, wait...seriously...the unadulterated shock and amazement at this development has left me short of breath...

Oh, for God's sake, RNC. You do realize that your electorate is getting quite old, right? Eventually, it will be our party; you do recognize this simple truth, do you not?

Here's an idea, RNC - cancel the whole darn thing, the whole ball of wax. The convention, the commercials, the debates, the election itself - and just send Mr. Soetoro a nice bouquet. Save a couple bucks on it and just buy it at the grocery store nearest to the White House and send someone on a bike to give it to him, so Michelle can put it up on the mantlepiece.

We as a nation are going to need to save as much as we can, wherever and however we can. Pinch those pennies!

You asses.

Monotaur
08-15-2012, 11:02 PM
Like the work John Jones is putting into this? Check out his campaign. http://www.johnloganjones.com/romney_deal

Absolutely. John Jones is an upstanding guy. He worked on the Paul campaign here in Colorado and did a great job organizing. He deserves our help!

CPUd
08-15-2012, 11:12 PM
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/24905339.jpg

No, wait...seriously...the unadulterated shock and amazement at this development has left me short of breath...

Oh, for God's sake, RNC. You do realize that your electorate is getting quite old, right? Eventually, it will be our party; you do recognize this simple truth, do you not?

Here's an idea, RNC - cancel the whole darn thing, the whole ball of wax. The convention, the commercials, the debates, the election itself - and just send Mr. Soetoro a nice bouquet. Save a couple bucks on it and just buy it at the grocery store nearest to the White House and send someone on a bike to give it to him, so Michelle can put it up on the mantlepiece.

We as a nation are going to need to save as much as we can, wherever and however we can. Pinch those pennies!

You asses.

^^ preview of Ron Paul's speech on Sunday night.

kill the banks
08-15-2012, 11:36 PM
how refreshing :toady: gotta love this retardation

RickyJ
08-16-2012, 12:11 AM
They sure are determined to do almost everything they can to piss Paulites off. Im starting to think the establishment GOP's goal is to anger us so much that we abandon the party entirely.

It is not so much the Republican Party that is against Paul becoming President, it is the elite bankers that are against it. That is why all main stream media outlets are against Ron Paul, including the liberal media.

thatpeculiarcat
08-16-2012, 12:15 AM
People are shocked?

RickyJ
08-16-2012, 12:17 AM
And Rand Paul is attending that charade to speak for Romney?

Everyone around here keeps telling me it was a meaningless endorsement. I suppose his speech at the RNC will also be meaningless, just like his votes for sanctions against Iran and aid to Israel, all meaningless. I wonder if every time he does something that we wouldn't think a true freedom representative would do, his supporters will say it is meaningless.

sailingaway
08-16-2012, 10:14 AM
People are shocked?

I take it your sarcasm meter is disabled....

NorfolkPCSolutions
08-16-2012, 11:15 AM
People are shocked?

Here ya go, Mr. Cat. (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sarcasm)

Sarcasm [sahr-kaz-uhm]

noun

1.harsh or bitter derision or irony.

2.a sharply ironical taunt; sneering or cutting remark: a reviewfull of sarcasms.

No, thatpeculiarcat, I doubt that anyone here at RPF is shocked. I apologize for the lack of clarity in my above comment, and will strive wholeheartedly to improve myself in the future.

You know what would shock me, though? Fifteen minutes of Ron Paul at Tampa. Witnessing Ron Paul's nomination from the floor would shock me to such an extent that I would require a change of underwear, however.

Forty Twice
08-16-2012, 01:13 PM
If the Romney team and it's RNC puppets want to play dirty with us, we can play dirty back. Instead of voting for Gary Johnson, we should just vote for Obama. Then we do our best to take the Republican party back in 2014, but by playing fair.

Maybe they think they can screw us over and still win without our votes. Do they think they can win if we vote for Obama?

parocks
08-16-2012, 02:00 PM
If they cheat Ron out of the delegates he has and needs to be nominated onto the floor for a speech, we will have to be careful how we frame all the videos of cheating and breaking bones we circulate. "Bring our party back from the cheaters" or some such meme.....

The best cheating footage was Oregon. "convention is over, the ballots are gone" then the cameraman runs outside, and someone is arguing with the person stealing the ballots, who brings them back inside.

parocks
08-16-2012, 02:01 PM
It is not so much the Republican Party that is against Paul becoming President, it is the elite bankers that are against it. That is why all main stream media outlets are against Ron Paul, including the liberal media.

right. bankers, global elite, msm.

sailingaway
08-16-2012, 02:02 PM
The best cheating footage was Oregon. "convention is over, the ballots are gone" then the cameraman runs outside, and someone is arguing with the person stealing the ballots, who brings them back inside.

that is indeed one of my favorites. but Louisiana has some great video too, as does MO. And Maine with regard to the fake slates when you draw the line with Romney's campaign's FEC reports and show payments to the guy accused of passing them.

devil21
08-16-2012, 02:47 PM
right. bankers, global elite, msm.

It wasn't the bankers, elites, or MSM caught stealing ballots in Oregon. You kinda contradicted yourself with those two posts above.

parocks
08-16-2012, 07:56 PM
It wasn't the bankers, elites, or MSM caught stealing ballots in Oregon. You kinda contradicted yourself with those two posts above.

eh. maybe, maybe not. The functionaries following orders. Not necessarily "against Paul becoming President" but following orders. Perhaps they were bribed by Romney, it wouldn't surprise me." You have people who are "against Paul becoming President" and others who aren't necessarily against Paul becoming President, but are doing the bidding of those who are against him. When you're talking about a State Chair, you're also looking at self-preservation motives, because people in those positions stand to lose their jobs if we get to pick the state chair.

parocks
08-16-2012, 08:05 PM
that is indeed one of my favorites. but Louisiana has some great video too, as does MO. And Maine with regard to the fake slates when you draw the line with Romney's campaign's FEC reports and show payments to the guy accused of passing them.

People make a lot of the "fake slates". I didn't think it a big deal. They're trying to confuse, we need to be smart. Is there some sort of rule saying that lit had to be different? The GOP and the Romney campaign have been breaking rules left and right. Here, someone was handing out stickers that looked like our stickers. So what? Not the same type of thing as the organized cheating. It's deceptive, not cheating. Cheating I would think would involve breaking a rule, here there isn't that rule about making stickers that look like the other guys stickers.

sailingaway
08-16-2012, 08:48 PM
People make a lot of the "fake slates". I didn't think it a big deal. They're trying to confuse, we need to be smart. Is there some sort of rule saying that lit had to be different? The GOP and the Romney campaign have been breaking rules left and right. Here, someone was handing out stickers that looked like our stickers. So what? Not the same type of thing as the organized cheating. It's deceptive, not cheating. Cheating I would think would involve breaking a rule, here there isn't that rule about making stickers that look like the other guys stickers.

the difference is there is an FEC report showing this guy who passed fake slates was paid money by the Romney campaign. It is one thing for supporters to go rogue, it is different if a campaign does it. And it is organized when they do it in multiple states to CONFUSE the vote, not persuade the voter.

mello
08-16-2012, 09:05 PM
The best cheating footage was Oregon. "convention is over, the ballots are gone" then the cameraman runs outside, and someone is arguing with the person stealing the ballots, who brings them back inside.

Where's that youtube because I definitely want to see that!

ClydeCoulter
08-16-2012, 09:06 PM
from http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/deceit


deceit n. dishonesty, fraudulent conduct, false statements made knowing them to be untrue, by which the liar intends to deceive a party receiving the statements and expects the party to believe and rely on them. This is a civil wrong (tort) giving rise to the right of a person reasonably relying on such dishonesty to the point of his/her injury to sue the deceiver. (See: fraud, misrepresentation)

anaconda
08-16-2012, 09:13 PM
How were they able to do this?

sailingaway
08-16-2012, 09:14 PM
How were they able to do this?

they declared it so.

Whatever people may think of Gilbert's law suit the fact remains that the judge got the RNC attorney to say the RNC felt they didn't have to follow their own rules.

CPUd
08-16-2012, 09:31 PM
Where's that youtube because I definitely want to see that!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPBnuvRAjWQ

devil21
08-16-2012, 09:42 PM
eh. maybe, maybe not. The functionaries following orders. Not necessarily "against Paul becoming President" but following orders. Perhaps they were bribed by Romney, it wouldn't surprise me." You have people who are "against Paul becoming President" and others who aren't necessarily against Paul becoming President, but are doing the bidding of those who are against him. When you're talking about a State Chair, you're also looking at self-preservation motives, because people in those positions stand to lose their jobs if we get to pick the state chair.

My point is that the bankers, elites and MSM are generally powerless (MSM to lesser extent) if we take over all the party positions and stay true to the liberty message. No ballots get jacked if the would-be jacker is a Paul supporter. You're right that it's a top down sort of thing going on but none of that happens unless the foot soldiers buy into the propaganda and take the orders. That's why winning local elections and party leadership positions is so important to the future of this movement. Jamie Dimon, George Soros, and George Snuffalufagus aren't going to swoop in and steal a box of ballots.

parocks
08-16-2012, 10:16 PM
the difference is there is an FEC report showing this guy who passed fake slates was paid money by the Romney campaign. It is one thing for supporters to go rogue, it is different if a campaign does it. And it is organized when they do it in multiple states to CONFUSE the vote, not persuade the voter.

It's still not cheating. The GOP has been cheating all over the place. But handing out "fake slates". (By the way, what is a "fake" slate"? We handed stickers that we made. They handed out stickers that they made. We're talking campaign lit here. Using the term "fake slates" implies that there's a "real" and a "fake", and it makes people think that the actual ballots themselves were compromised in some way. And they weren't. Compared to all the actual cheating that took place all over the country, using lit that might confuse Ron Paul supporters isn't cheating, and we shouldn't be lumping it together with actual running away with ballots, pretending that we had fewer people when we had more, shutting down conventions prematurely, and all of those clear examples of cheating.

parocks
08-16-2012, 10:21 PM
My point is that the bankers, elites and MSM are generally powerless (MSM to lesser extent) if we take over all the party positions and stay true to the liberty message. No ballots get jacked if the would-be jacker is a Paul supporter. You're right that it's a top down sort of thing going on but none of that happens unless the foot soldiers buy into the propaganda and take the orders. That's why winning local elections and party leadership positions is so important to the future of this movement. Jamie Dimon, George Soros, and George Snuffalufagus aren't going to swoop in and steal a box of ballots.

I wouldn't argue those points. The bankers, elites and MSM have other tricks than controlling state GOPs. It's not right to say everything is smooth sailing if we get our people in place in the states. We just won't have those specific problems.

parocks
08-16-2012, 10:23 PM
Where's that youtube because I definitely want to see that!

I don't know. It was linked to here and discussed.





http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cPBnuvRAjWQ#!


from here http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?381589-We-did-well-in-Oregon-totals-not-completely-in&p=4510154&viewfull=1#post4510154

sailingaway
08-16-2012, 10:24 PM
It's still not cheating. The GOP has been cheating all over the place. But handing out "fake slates". (By the way, what is a "fake" slate"? We handed stickers that we made. They handed out stickers that they made. We're talking campaign lit here. Using the term "fake slates" implies that there's a "real" and a "fake", and it makes people think that the actual ballots themselves were compromised in some way. And they weren't. Compared to all the actual cheating that took place all over the country, using lit that might confuse Ron Paul supporters isn't cheating, and we shouldn't be lumping it together with actual running away with ballots, pretending that we had fewer people when we had more, shutting down conventions prematurely, and all of those clear examples of cheating.

It was fraudulent inducement of a vote by pretending it was for a candidate/endorsed by a group when it wasn't. That is cheating. It is true some cheating was even more blatant, but the clear payment by the Romney campaign makes this one worth bringing up as well, imho.

anaconda
08-16-2012, 10:31 PM
they declared it so.

Whatever people may think of Gilbert's law suit the fact remains that the judge got the RNC attorney to say the RNC felt they didn't have to follow their own rules.

Ron should give a press conference and explain the cheating and corruption. And how the party has excluded him despite his efforts to join in. And announce he will join the Libertarian party ticket as the VP candidate. Then we'll see how the RNC really feels.

parocks
08-16-2012, 10:58 PM
It was fraudulent inducement of a vote by pretending it was for a candidate/endorsed by a group when it wasn't. That is cheating. It is true some cheating was even more blatant, but the clear payment by the Romney campaign makes this one worth bringing up as well, imho.

No, it wasn't pretending. The Romney stickers did not say they were Ron Paul (unless you have a picture of that. I was there.) They were just 2 different lists that looked the same, except with different names on them, except for LePage. There was not "pretending it was for..." that I could see on the sticker. What they could've done is been on top of it, with printers and avery sticker products. They saw that we had a good system with the stickers, you didn't have to write anything, and they copied it. They used the identical font, however, there was nothing distinctive about our font, and it very possibly was a default font.

Cheating involves breaking rules. Tricky, yes, maybe, smart, maybe, cheating, no. There are other things to worry about than similar lit. I would put similar lit as a tool for the tool kit, and not cheating.

Ron Paul grassroots does not have many tools, and when you see a tool, and call it cheating, to me it says that you can't understand what tools are. Politics is pretty tough. Back in the old days, political signs were attached to heavy sticks. And you could hit the opponents supporters with those heavy sticks, and neither side whined about it. You could play the game called "get my sign right behind the reporters head" People wielding those signs like swords behind the 70 year old reporters head.

sailingaway
08-16-2012, 11:03 PM
No, it wasn't pretending. The Romney stickers did not say they were Ron Paul (unless you have a picture of that. I was there.) They were just 2 different lists that looked the same, except with different names on them, except for LePage. There was not "pretending it was for..." that I could see on the sticker. What they could've done is been on top of it, with printers and avery sticker products. They saw that we had a good system with the stickers, you didn't have to write anything, and they copied it. They used the identical font, however, there was nothing distinctive about our font, and it very possibly was a default font.

Cheating involves breaking rules. Tricky, yes, maybe, smart, maybe, cheating, no. There are other things to worry about than similar lit. I would put similar lit as a tool for the tool kit, and not cheating.

Ron Paul grassroots does not have many tools, and when you see a tool, and call it cheating, to me it says that you can't understand what tools are. Politics is pretty tough. Back in the old days, political signs were attached to heavy sticks. And you could hit the opponents supporters with those heavy sticks, and neither side whined about it. You could play the game called "get my sign right behind the reporters head" People wielding those signs like swords behind the 70 year old reporters head.

I have seen pictures of it, and I understand a guy with a Ron Paul sticker on (Charlie Cheater) handed out the ballots with the clear intent to create the fraudulent impression that these, the same color as the ones the Ron Paul folks gave out, were the Ron Paul slates. That is fraudulent inducement of vote to their candidates, imho.

I was really thinking of the Colorado situation where they not only duplicated the color of the Ron Paul slate but also the Gun endorsed slate and the Christian endorsed slate, all of whom were endorsing the Ron Paul delegates.

parocks
08-16-2012, 11:12 PM
You're using a lot of legalistic terminology. What are you referring to specifically? You must be referring to some law? He handed out lit.


I have seen pictures of it, and I understand a guy with a Ron Paul sticker on (Charlie Cheater) handed out the ballots with the clear intent to create the fraudulent impression that these, the same color as the ones the Ron Paul folks gave out, were the Ron Paul slates. That is fraudulent inducement of vote to their candidates, imho.

I was really thinking of the Colorado situation where they not only duplicated the color of the Ron Paul slate but also the Gun endorsed slate and the Christian endorsed slate, all of whom were endorsing the Ron Paul delegates.

sailingaway
08-16-2012, 11:17 PM
Fraud is a legal definition, but a judge would have to find this applied as voter fraud given it was in a party delegate selection. But it was still unfair trickery to pretend you were voting for someone else, which I think fits A standard of cheating. But there was also rule breaking, various places. I'm not as sure about Maine on that one, until this hearing apparently violated the rules by finding no showing of fraud yet delaying ruling for the delegates at least until after another hearing.

twomp
08-16-2012, 11:25 PM
People are shocked?

http://forums.49ers.com/images/smilies/burt.gif

parocks
08-17-2012, 12:18 AM
Fraud is a legal definition, but a judge would have to find this applied as voter fraud given it was in a party delegate selection. But it was still unfair trickery to pretend you were voting for someone else, which I think fits A standard of cheating. But there was also rule breaking, various places. I'm not as sure about Maine on that one, until this hearing apparently violated the rules by finding no showing of fraud yet delaying ruling for the delegates at least until after another hearing.

Unfair trickery seems to happen a lot in politics. Msm is trying to tell us Ryan is a conservative. One problem that Ron Paul Supporters don't really catch on to is that unfair trickery is not the same thing as cheating, and quite often it gives an advantage.

I would argue that "unfair trickery" might be something we try in Tampa. Wearing Romney garb, doing something stupid, getting it on video, putting the video on the internet. Things like that.

The bag of tricks we have includes yelling and sign waving. Earnestly. Sincerely. Getting beat up and whining about it also occasionally happens. It's almost as if the people who came up the "rules of ron paul grassroots campaining" had no political experience at all, but lots of experience attending antiwar rallies. And those people said "let's pretend that this is an antiwar rally, not a presidential campaign". Obviously that's not true for everyone. And maybe it was worse in 2007-8. But that's the typical mindset. Look at the Oregon video. Whoever put that clip up thought the clip was about assault, when the clip was about improperly removing ballots.

Ethek
08-19-2012, 07:34 AM
There is a hearing today for the Credentials Committee at the Grand Ballroom of the Marriott Waterside Grand Ballroom at 2:30. Brent Tweed the Maine Del chair was flown down yesterday to testify. I am one of two other delegates that are flying in today to participate in the platform committee events that start tonight. Both Mrs Beand and I are going to attend the hearing.

I will look to Live Tweet what I can on twitter @ md_wallace

kathy88
08-19-2012, 07:47 AM
the difference is there is an FEC report showing this guy who passed fake slates was paid money by the Romney campaign. It is one thing for supporters to go rogue, it is different if a campaign does it. And it is organized when they do it in multiple states to CONFUSE the vote, not persuade the voter.Don't know if it's been mentioned or not but the Dave slates in NV I believe actually had the campaign logo on them.

devil21
08-19-2012, 03:49 PM
There is a hearing today for the Credentials Committee at the Grand Ballroom of the Marriott Waterside Grand Ballroom at 2:30. Brent Tweed the Maine Del chair was flown down yesterday to testify. I am one of two other delegates that are flying in today to participate in the platform committee events that start tonight. Both Mrs Beand and I are going to attend the hearing.

I will look to Live Tweet what I can on twitter @ md_wallace

nm new thread here
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?386564-Tweeting-the-Maine-delegate-hearing-today-at-2-30

sailingaway
08-19-2012, 03:50 PM
Any update on this?

a Maine delegates has been tweeting from there but was asked to leave the hearing since he isn't being called as witness. He isn't sure. No official word. It was/is said to be intense in side. His nameplate is on his desk in the hall though, so he's wondering if that means anything.