Gates Foundation makes poop a priority, puts toilet innovation front and center

[PaulConventionWV]

Gotta love the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation...

Something about this story just makes me think about liberals, which, no doubt, is part of where this drive for innovation came from. It's probably because liberals are such germophobes. No matter, people freak out about it way too much. Poop is everywhere, literally. It's not something people should be afraid of. Or maybe it's the condescending attitude that seems to come along with a story like this... a rich couple telling us we need to "get our shit together", as per their new ad addressing this same subject. It's as if we're unruly kids messing up their planet with our bodily functions. As much as I try, I can't look at this as being altruistic because of the whole aura that the B&M Foundation seems to give off that they know the answers and will help all those who can't seem to help themselves. Even if this were some kind of environment-saving technology, how are people in Africa and other such places going to be able to afford it?


Gates Foundation makes poop a priority, puts toilet innovation front and center
By Emi Kolawole

Bill Gates, right, looks at a device that uses solar energy to treat human waste, as he tours the "Reinventing the Toliet" Fair, Tuesday, Aug. 14, 2012, in Seattle. (Ted S. Warren - AP)
Bill Gates wants your ideas — ideas to improve the one thing most people probably don’t like to think about until they have to: the toilet.

That’s right, there’s a global problem when it comes to the bathroom throne: not everyone has access to one. More specifically, they lack access to clean sanitation services.

In July 2011, the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation announced an initiative to reinvent the toilet, along with $265 million in grants spread across a variety of efforts to spur greater innovation in sanitation.

Tove Larsen, second from right, of Eawag, the Swiss Federal Institute of Aquatic Science and Technology, talks about their diversion toilet at the "Reinventing the Toliet" Fair, Tuesday, Aug. 14, 201. (Ted S. Warren - AP)
For the past two days, Aug. 14-15, the Foundation has been hosting the Reinvent the Toilet Fair, where, aside from generating synthetic feces, the event featured a number of inventions — all related to sanitation.

The winners were announced Tuesday. The California Institute of Technology received the first prize of $100,000 for a solar-powered toilet design and generates energy in the form of hydrogen and electricity. Loughborough University won the $60,000 second-place prize for a toilet that produces charcoal, minerals and clean water by product. The $40,000 third place prize went to the University of Toronto for developing a toilet that turns human waste into clean water and other clean resources.


Marcos Fiovavanti, of the Ecuador-based "Fundacion In Terris" group, talks about the "Earth Auger Toliet," which is operated by a mechanical pedal and chain system, on display at the "Reinventing the Toliet" Fair, Tuesday, Aug. 14, 2012. (Ted S. Warren - AP)
The Swiss Federal Institute of Aquatic Sciences and Technology and Austrian design firm EOOS received special recognition and $40,000 for “their outstanding design of a toilet user interface,” according to a release.

So, what would your reinvented toilet look like? Let us know in the comments. And share your ideas for how best to recharge American innovation via our new Crowd Sourced tool.


Professor Michael Hoffman of California Institute of Technology (CIT) explains his research and development team's winning entry at the "Reinvent the Toilet Fair" competition at the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation campus in Seattle, Washington on August 14, 2012. (ANTHONY BOLANTE - REUTERS)


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/innovations/post/making-poop-a-priority-gates-foundation-puts-toilet-innovation-front-and-center/2012/08/15/cd2cf1e2-e71b-11e1-936a-b801f1abab19_blog.html

[kathy88]

That's shitty.

[Dr.3D]

It's a wonder they haven't developed a way to make poop come out all wrapped in plastic. I imagine it would look something like brown link sausage.

[PaulConventionWV]

It's a wonder they haven't developed a way to make poop come out all wrapped in plastic. I imagine it would look something like brown link sausage.

lol

[BuddyRey]

Did you know that when you flush a toilet (presuming the lid isn't down), aerated feces spews into the air and literally covers the entire room? Mike Rowe from Dirty Jobs did a whole bit on it.

I immediately started looking for my travel toothbrush protector.

[Rudeman]

Did you know that when you flush a toilet (presuming the lid isn't down), aerated feces spews into the air and literally covers the entire room? Mike Rowe from Dirty Jobs did a whole bit on it.

I immediately started looking for my travel toothbrush protector.

haha, I opted towards putting the lid down.

[aGameOfThrones]

We seriously need this...

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/661342/fullsize/vapoorize.jpg

[PaulConventionWV]

Did you know that when you flush a toilet (presuming the lid isn't down), aerated feces spews into the air and literally covers the entire room? Mike Rowe from Dirty Jobs did a whole bit on it.

I immediately started looking for my travel toothbrush protector.

Mythbusters put a toothbrush under a container in the kitchen and it had about the same amount of fecal bacteria as the tootbrush in the bathroom, uncovered.

I don't know how much good that toothbrush protector is going to do.

[donnay]

I heard this the other night on the radio hosted by John Tesh:

What will life be like in 100 years? A physicist named Michio Kaku has come up with theories as to what life will be like a the turn of the next century, based on interviews with 300 of the world’s top scientists. Here’s what he envisions – according to his book “Physics of the Future”:

First, Kaku says we’ll all be wearing contact lenses – that’s how we’ll connect to the internet. We’ll blink, and instantly go online, accessing our home, office or entertainment systems, anywhere, anytime. We’ll be able to download any song, movie, or piece of information from these contact lenses. They’ll also be able to identify people’s faces and translate what they’re saying in any language, with subtitles popping up. And for people with illnesses, like diabetes, the contact lenses will give real time read-outs of heart rate and insulin levels.

What else will be happening in the year 2100? There will be no computers. There will be no cell phones, clocks, watches and MP3 payers (sic). Instead, chips costing less than a penny will be hidden by the millions in the environment. And we’ll control these chips with our minds! These micro-computers will interpret our brains’ electrical signals and carry out our wishes.

Also in the future, we won’t be driving our cars. They’ll be navigated by GPS to get us where we’re going, so no more traffic or accidents. Each car will have a radar that will sense obstacles and avoid accidents, and that’s already happening.

And what about doctor’s visits in 100 years? We’ll know that we need to go to the doctor because our toilets will tell us to. That’s because our toilets will contain DNA sensors, capable of detecting proteins emitted from cancer cells, 10 years before tumors form.

http://www.tesh.com/topics/random-intelligence-category/what-will-life-be-like-in-100-years/cc/17/id/22271

[mad cow]

Maybe someone could invent a toilet with a 6 gallon tank on it for flushing.
That would be worth a $100K prize.

[Xhin]

Also in the future, we won’t be driving our cars. They’ll be navigated by GPS to get us where we’re going, so no more traffic or accidents.

Yeah right. By that logic no one would drive stick-shift cars.

[ghengis86]

Maybe someone could invent a toilet with a 6 gallon tank on it for flushing.
That would be worth a $100K prize.

FTMFW! It takes a couple flushes in a low-flow toilet to get rid of a big dookey, wasting more water than a single, large volume toilet flush. Physics escapes the greens and the politicians

[KingRobbStark]

Our safest bet is to figure out a way to shit out of our mouths. It seems the Gates have figured out the way, but are too selfish to share with the rest of us.

[John F Kennedy III]

Did you know that when you flush a toilet (presuming the lid isn't down), aerated feces spews into the air and literally covers the entire room? Mike Rowe from Dirty Jobs did a whole bit on it.

I immediately started looking for my travel toothbrush protector.

Crazy eyes Nicholas Cage not only ruined bathrooms for me, he decided the best option for him was to cover his toothbrush and allow the rest of his bathroom to continue to be slowly coated with raw shit.

I like this guy.

[sailingaway]

They'd have to renovate all the sewers in the nation, as well. They went to mandatory low flow in SF and now a bunch of it smells like a sewer on a hot day.

[kill the banks]

my daddy used to say every time I stepped into sh!t , I came up smelling like roses ... now gates has gone from roses to smelling like sh!t ... just sayn

[trey4sports]

Check out the "Squatty Potty."


I found this on Mark Sisson's resource page.



http://www.squattypotty.com/



About the stupidest damn product i've ever seen. Get a damn step stool at the Dollar Store if you want to pretend like you're shittin' in the woods.....






http://www.squattypotty.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/homepage-videographic.jpg


http://www.squattypotty.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/homepage-concept1.png

[HOLLYWOOD]

Who's Gates' going to steal this new technology from?

This is one where Bill can regurgitate another stolen idea...

[jonhowe]

Uh, isn't this a good thing? A successful businessman granting private money to help the world? Yes, poop is everywhere, but it DOES spread diseases in 3rd world countries (you know, where these are intended to be used to start, as I understand it). Why are you all putting down a drive to innovate using, again, PRIVATE grant money?

And you ask how people in these countries will afford it? Again, that's the point of the foundation... they give it to them. When people have the ability to be healthier and safer, it is MUCH easier for them to be more productive, educated, and aware of their political situation. This is sure a better way of spreading the ideas of freedom than guns and bombs are.

[Demigod]

I guess this project is about helping poor people ( probably Africa ) get better access to sanitation so here is my project for the competition

Here it is.

http://i.istockimg.com/file_thumbview_approve/10728707/2/stock-photo-10728707-outdoor-toilet.jpg

It is based on reliable technology that has been tested for the past 2000 years.2 drunken sailors could make one of this in half a day.It could take longer but you could even make one of this without using any tools and it will cost you nothing but 1 or 2 meals for the duration it needs to be completed.

When it breaks it takes just 30 minutes to take apart the outer walls,and fill the hole with some dirt ( 100% Eco-friendly ) and another few hours to make a new one.

[pcosmar]

Uh, isn't this a good thing? A successful businessman granting private money to help the world?

Do you really think so? Gates is about Population reduction and Eugenics.
Just another Elitist..

I would not trust him with shit.

[PaulConventionWV]

Uh, isn't this a good thing? A successful businessman granting private money to help the world? Yes, poop is everywhere, but it DOES spread diseases in 3rd world countries (you know, where these are intended to be used to start, as I understand it). Why are you all putting down a drive to innovate using, again, PRIVATE grant money?

And you ask how people in these countries will afford it? Again, that's the point of the foundation... they give it to them. When people have the ability to be healthier and safer, it is MUCH easier for them to be more productive, educated, and aware of their political situation. This is sure a better way of spreading the ideas of freedom than guns and bombs are.

I think you missed the part where it wasn't private money. I've told you how I feel about it. It just strikes me the wrong way.

[PaulConventionWV]

I guess this project is about helping poor people ( probably Africa ) get better access to sanitation so here is my project for the competition?

Here it is.

http://i.istockimg.com/file_thumbview_approve/10728707/2/stock-photo-10728707-outdoor-toilet.jpg

It is based on reliable technology that has been tested for the past 2000 years.2 drunken sailors could make one of this in half a day.It could take longer but you could even make one of this without using any tools and it will cost you nothing but 1 or 2 meals for the duration it needs to be completed.

When it breaks it takes just 30 minutes to take apart the outer walls,and fill the hole with some dirt ( 100% Eco-friendly ) and another few hours to make a new one.

Very economical. Love it.

[TonySutton]

This problem was solved years ago for a lot less money.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoiJvWoOcBg

http://humanurehandbook.com/

[brooks009]

Do you really think so? Gates is about Population reduction and Eugenics.

You make it sound like that's a bad thing.

[olehounddog]

Looks like he's making somethin simple, complicated. Ive been considering one of these.

http://www.biolet.com/
http://www.sun-mar.com/prod_self.html
http://www.envirolet.com/models.html

[Dr.3D]

You make it sound like that's a bad thing.
It is when it's preconceived genocide or genocide by stealth.

[IDefendThePlatform]

Cholera, hepatitis A and a bunch of other nasty diseases get spread this way on a daily basis. Kudos to the gates foundation for stepping up to try to solve a major public health problem.

Also I think most of the gains in life expectancy in the developed world over the last couple centuries have been due to improved santitation more than any other factor, so it's a pretty big deal.

[osan]

What a load of crap.

[juleswin]

I guess this project is about helping poor people ( probably Africa ) get better access to sanitation so here is my project for the competition

Here it is.

http://i.istockimg.com/file_thumbview_approve/10728707/2/stock-photo-10728707-outdoor-toilet.jpg

It is based on reliable technology that has been tested for the past 2000 years.2 drunken sailors could make one of this in half a day.It could take longer but you could even make one of this without using any tools and it will cost you nothing but 1 or 2 meals for the duration it needs to be completed.

When it breaks it takes just 30 minutes to take apart the outer walls,and fill the hole with some dirt ( 100% Eco-friendly ) and another few hours to make a new one.

My guess is if that is the solution, then he wouldn't be telling Africans or anyone for that matter anything new. Humans have always dug a hole to dispose and conceal their fesses. In my village in Nigeria(country side) where my grandparents lived, they had pit toilets where people relieved themselves. It is like the out house but with a much bigger capacity. You defecate in it and it is absorbed into the ground, very environmental friendly, more economical and very low maintenance.

A few down side is that you cannot teach a baby potty training with it and it kinda smells even when the sit is closed. My opinion on Gates is that he should get out of Africa with his dangerous ideas (mosquitoes engineered vaccine dispensers), he claims to have spent billions and billions of dollars in Africa but there's really nothing to show for it. My guess is that all this charitable endevours is his way him and his other rich friends get away with paying lower and lower taxes. Dont get me wrong, I want low taxes but I want it for everyone and not just for the elites with high powered accountants to outsmart the tax laws

[NoOneButPaul]

I thought Gates was running the world why is he talking toilets?

[ZenBowman]

Uh, isn't this a good thing? A successful businessman granting private money to help the world? Yes, poop is everywhere, but it DOES spread diseases in 3rd world countries (you know, where these are intended to be used to start, as I understand it). Why are you all putting down a drive to innovate using, again, PRIVATE grant money?

And you ask how people in these countries will afford it? Again, that's the point of the foundation... they give it to them. When people have the ability to be healthier and safer, it is MUCH easier for them to be more productive, educated, and aware of their political situation. This is sure a better way of spreading the ideas of freedom than guns and bombs are.

Agreed.

Kudos to Bill G, haters gonna hate.

[heavenlyboy34]

Check out the "Squatty Potty."


I found this on Mark Sisson's resource page.



http://www.squattypotty.com/



About the stupidest damn product i've ever seen. Get a damn step stool at the Dollar Store if you want to pretend like you're shittin' in the woods.....






http://www.squattypotty.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/homepage-videographic.jpg


http://www.squattypotty.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/homepage-concept1.png
Actually, this really works. We have a thread around here called "poopin' 2.0" about this very subject.

[brooks009]

Actually, this really works. We have a thread around here called "poopin' 2.0" about this very subject.

I have not read that thread but yeah we poop wrong in the USA. You should squat to poop.

[IDefendThePlatform]

Humans have always dug a hole to dispose and conceal their fesses. In my village in Nigeria(country side) where my grandparents lived, they had pit toilets where people relieved themselves. It is like the out house but with a much bigger capacity. You defecate in it and it is absorbed into the ground, very environmental friendly, more economical and very low maintenance.


I'm sure outhouses and holes work well in some areas, but the problem is when untreated human waste gets into water supplies (runoff from rain, or people crapping near lakes or streams) then diseases spread through the untreated water. I'm pretty sure the Gates foundation is looking for a solution that sterilizes or removes the diseases cheaply and conveniently.

[jmdrake]

I guess this project is about helping poor people ( probably Africa ) get better access to sanitation so here is my project for the competition

Here it is.

http://i.istockimg.com/file_thumbview_approve/10728707/2/stock-photo-10728707-outdoor-toilet.jpg

It is based on reliable technology that has been tested for the past 2000 years.2 drunken sailors could make one of this in half a day.It could take longer but you could even make one of this without using any tools and it will cost you nothing but 1 or 2 meals for the duration it needs to be completed.

When it breaks it takes just 30 minutes to take apart the outer walls,and fill the hole with some dirt ( 100% Eco-friendly ) and another few hours to make a new one.

And Biblically sanctioned.

Deu 23:12-14 NET You are to have a place outside the camp to serve as a latrine. [v. 13] You must have a spade among your other equipment and when you relieve yourself outside you must dig a hole with the spade and then turn and cover your excrement. [v. 14] For the LORD your God walks about in the middle of your camp to deliver you and defeat your enemies for you. Therefore your camp should be holy, so that he does not see anything indecent among you and turn away from you.

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Does_the_bible_tell_you_how_to_go_to_the_toilet#ix zz23kAJlxfW

[jonhowe]

I think you missed the part where it wasn't private money.

Care to point it out to me then? I've read that the grants were from the foundation...

[pcosmar]

I'm sure outhouses and holes work well in some areas, but the problem is when untreated human waste gets into water supplies (runoff from rain, or people crapping near lakes or streams) then diseases spread through the untreated water. I'm pretty sure the Gates foundation is looking for a solution that sterilizes or removes the diseases cheaply and conveniently.

Actually,, that is more due to cities and settlements pumping raw sewage into the water supply..
And in those areas of the world ,, to dead bodies and mass graves.
Sewage in the ground does not have that problem.

Perhaps they can just build decent sewage treatment if they wish,,
Gates has actually been focused in other directions.. like population control.
so color me skeptical.

[jonhowe]

Gates has actually been focused in other directions.. like population control.
so color me skeptical.

You do realize that the population cannot continue to grow forever, right? It doesn't work that way. Gates isn't into "controlling" it, but he is investing in ways to avoid overpopulation using seemingly common sense means. Healthy, educated, and free people tend to have fewer children. Solution: get more people educated, healthy, and free.

Not to say I agree with gates on everything, but to paint him as bent on genocide is 100% off.

[pcosmar]

You do realize that the population cannot continue to grow forever, right? It doesn't work that way. Gates isn't into "controlling" it, but he is investing in ways to avoid overpopulation using seemingly common sense means. Healthy, educated, and free people tend to have fewer children. Solution: get more people educated, healthy, and free.

Not to say I agree with gates on everything, but to paint him as bent on genocide is 100% off.

Did I use the word genocide?
NO,, I DID NOT (Nice try though)


This July, we will be celebrating the centennial anniversary of London's First International Eugenics Conference of 1912. One century later, on July 11, 2012, the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation (the largest private foundation in the world) and the British government will co-host a new London conference on eugenics with global coalition partners such as American abortion chain Planned Parenthood, British abortion chain Marie Stopes International, and the United Nations Populations Fund (UNFPA).

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/06/melinda_gates_talks_eugenics.html#ixzz23l9Ivwhh


Oh,,and in case you are wondering,, there is much more from many other sources.

[jonhowe]

Did I use the word genocide?
NO,, I DID NOT (Nice try though)



I never said you did.

[pcosmar]

Not to say I agree with gates on everything, but to paint him as bent on genocide is 100% off.

Your words, not mine.
Bill Gates is a eugenics advocate.

[jonhowe]

Your words, not mine.
Bill Gates is a eugenics advocate.

You were the one arguing semantics: I never said that you SAID "genocide".


Also, I've found no statement by Bill Gates suggesting he supports eugenics. Nothing in the article you provided suggests he or his wife do. They support intelligent use of birth control to avoid dangerous overpopulation. However, as she is seemingly liberal leaning, she thinks government should make it accessible to people. That's not much of a stretch when considering many governments run healthcare, and contraception falls under healthcare. Did you even read that before you posted it?

[pcosmar]

You were the one arguing semantics: I never said that you SAID "genocide".


Also, I've found no statement by Bill Gates suggesting he supports eugenics. Nothing in the article you provided suggests he or his wife do. They support intelligent use of birth control to avoid dangerous overpopulation. However, as she is seemingly liberal leaning, she thinks government should make it accessible to people. That's not much of a stretch when considering many governments run healthcare, and contraception falls under healthcare. Did you even read that before you posted it?

[Reconsidered-Self Moderated]

:(

[PaulConventionWV]

Actually,, that is more due to cities and settlements pumping raw sewage into the water supply..
And in those areas of the world ,, to dead bodies and mass graves.
Sewage in the ground does not have that problem.

Perhaps they can just build decent sewage treatment if they wish,,
Gates has actually been focused in other directions.. like population control.
so color me skeptical.

Very interesting. So you advocate the old outhouse formula? What do you think are some of the advantages and disadvantages of it?

[PaulConventionWV]

You were the one arguing semantics: I never said that you SAID "genocide".


Also, I've found no statement by Bill Gates suggesting he supports eugenics. Nothing in the article you provided suggests he or his wife do. They support intelligent use of birth control to avoid dangerous overpopulation. However, as she is seemingly liberal leaning, she thinks government should make it accessible to people. That's not much of a stretch when considering many governments run healthcare, and contraception falls under healthcare. Did you even read that before you posted it?

It seems like you're the one arguing semantics. If your main purpose is to say he is talking about genocide without saying it, that seems like you're avoiding it through semantics. If your main purpose is to say you don't accuse him of relating Bill Gates to genocide in any way, then who is "painting him as bent on genocide" according to your own words? Again, it seems like you are using semantics to me.

[pcosmar]

Very interesting. So you advocate the old outhouse formula? What do you think are some of the advantages and disadvantages of it?
??
Not sure I'm "advocating" anything. Outhouses work fine,, have for years. I have one, but also have indoor plumbing.
Septic systems work fine in small communities or rural settings.
In a densely populated area,,a sewage treatment system works better. Though the problem is just pumping raw waste into rivers or lakes, and that is done even in "civilized" and wealthy countries.
There is no excuse for it, but it is done. And that is where the problems come.

[soulcyon]

That's shitty.In this case, its a good thing right? :D

[PursuePeace]

edited... too offtopic. I need to stop thinking out loud.

[soulcyon]

Yeah right. By that logic no one would drive stick-shift cars.Of course, many of the modern-day car lovers would hate this idea. But I foresee a market push towards driverless cars - e.g, proven technology would perform better than human driving and result in cheaper insurance for driverless cars.

[pcosmar]

Of course, many of the modern-day car lovers would hate this idea. But I foresee a market push towards driverless cars - e.g, proven technology would perform better than human driving and result in cheaper insurance for driverless cars.

I see that as a sales pitch,, regardless of any factual basis.

But then the sales pitch for Mandatory Insurance was lower rates..and that Never Happened.


btw,,nice derail

[donnay]

You were the one arguing semantics: I never said that you SAID "genocide".


Also, I've found no statement by Bill Gates suggesting he supports eugenics. Nothing in the article you provided suggests he or his wife do. They support intelligent use of birth control to avoid dangerous overpopulation. However, as she is seemingly liberal leaning, she thinks government should make it accessible to people. That's not much of a stretch when considering many governments run healthcare, and contraception falls under healthcare. Did you even read that before you posted it?


Bill Gates father was the head of Planned Parenthood. Planned Parenthood is a trojan horse for eugenicists. Margaret Sanger pushed eugenics.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S48Qq-6WaNE


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZYM15aMUOw

[PaulConventionWV]

Bill Gates father was the head of Planned Parenthood. Planned Parenthood is a trojan horse for eugenicists. Margaret Sanger pushed eugenics.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S48Qq-6WaNE


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZYM15aMUOw

I haven't seen those videos. If I had known he buys into the global warming thing and actively pushes that agenda, that would have made me more suspicious in and of itself. He says we need to get CO2 production down to "zero."

Besides the fact that that is literally impossible, he seems to ignore the fact that we produce very little CO2 compared to other sources, not to mention that CO2 makes up very little of the atmosphere. How in the hell does he expect to get human CO2 production down to zero?

[PaulConventionWV]

??
Not sure I'm "advocating" anything. Outhouses work fine,, have for years. I have one, but also have indoor plumbing.
Septic systems work fine in small communities or rural settings.
In a densely populated area,,a sewage treatment system works better. Though the problem is just pumping raw waste into rivers or lakes, and that is done even in "civilized" and wealthy countries.
There is no excuse for it, but it is done. And that is where the problems come.

Ah, sorry. Didn't mean to put words in your mouth.

[jonhowe]

Bill Gates father was the head of Planned Parenthood. Planned Parenthood is a trojan horse for eugenicists. Margaret Sanger pushed eugenics.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S48Qq-6WaNE


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZYM15aMUOw

Again, nothing about eugenics. Allowing access to birth control is not eugenics. It is a good thing to do and leads to healthier, more successful people. It should not be FORCED on people, but allowing access to it to those who wouldn't normally have it is GOOD.

People: The planet cannot support an unlimited number of human being, just like human being cannot burn an unlimited amount of fossil fuels. These are just basic truths.

Also, Alex Jones COMPLETELY misread that quote about Gates' parents. Gates said his parents were their OWN "death panels", meaning THEY got to decide when they died. Also, the clip of him talking was about reducing costs and putting things in the hands of patients, rather than encouraging doctors to do every last thing and drip out every last dollar whether the patient wants it or not.

[ZenBowman]

Again, nothing about eugenics. Allowing access to birth control is not eugenics. It is a good thing to do and leads to healthier, more successful people. It should not be FORCED on people, but allowing access to it to those who wouldn't normally have it is GOOD.

People: The planet cannot support an unlimited number of human being, just like human being cannot burn an unlimited amount of fossil fuels. These are just basic truths.

Exactly, one would think that people who understand the unsustainability of increasing the money supply would understand the unsustainability of permanent population growth as well.

If you don't believe overpopulation exists, you'd have no problem whatsoever with totally open immigration.


Also, Alex Jones COMPLETELY misread that quote about Gates' parents. Gates said his parents were their OWN "death panels", meaning THEY got to decide when they died. Also, the clip of him talking was about reducing costs and putting things in the hands of patients, rather than encouraging doctors to do every last thing and drip out every last dollar whether the patient wants it or not.

Alex Jones is a fascist, not a libertarian, so for him lying and misrepresenting the truth is standard, just like any other politician.

There was a great line by a hospice nurse on an NPR interview yesterday
http://www.npr.org/2012/08/16/158936470/fact-checking-the-future-of-aging-in-america

To set the context, they are talking about the future of baby boomers and how hard they will struggle to survive as medical technology allows them to live longer even when they can no longer take care of themselves.


DONVAN: Let's bring in Sheila(ph) from Pittsburgh. Hi, Sheila, you're on TALK OF THE NATION.

SHEILA: Hi. I have a similar perspective to the doctor who was just speaking. I am 56 years old, so I am a baby boomer, but I have also practiced as a hospice nurse for some time. And more and more I see people who are attempting to get hospice care not because of a single terminal condition but because of general debility. They have a myriad of serious problems caused by things like diabetes and cardiovascular disease that leaves them with dementia, inability to ambulate and take care of themselves.

And Medicare pays for, you know, treatments for these different things, but there really is no good plan to take care...

DONVAN: Do you - can I interrupt you to ask you, do you have a plan yourself, Sheila?

SHEILA: Well, actually, being a hospice nurse, my perspective is very different from the general public, and I see nothing wrong with dying, and when the time comes, I'm going to allow myself to succumb to the first serious illness that I have.

(LAUGHTER)

SHEILA: I've lived a good life.


That's a pretty damn good attitude to have, and I hope that's how I think as I approach death. Live your life well for as long as you can, and when its time to go, go peacefully.

[ZenBowman]

Actually, this really works. We have a thread around here called "poopin' 2.0" about this very subject.

Squatty potty is okay, but I prefer Nature's platform.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=136590191&page=1

[donnay]

Again, nothing about eugenics. Allowing access to birth control is not eugenics. It is a good thing to do and leads to healthier, more successful people. It should not be FORCED on people, but allowing access to it to those who wouldn't normally have it is GOOD.

People: The planet cannot support an unlimited number of human being, just like human being cannot burn an unlimited amount of fossil fuels. These are just basic truths.

Also, Alex Jones COMPLETELY misread that quote about Gates' parents. Gates said his parents were their OWN "death panels", meaning THEY got to decide when they died. Also, the clip of him talking was about reducing costs and putting things in the hands of patients, rather than encouraging doctors to do every last thing and drip out every last dollar whether the patient wants it or not.

How about Bill Gate funding geo-engineering projects?


US geoengineers funded by Bill Gates to spray sun-reflecting chemicals into atmosphere to artificially cool the planet (http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/jul/17/us-geoengineers-spray-sun-balloon)


I have a REAL problem with people who think they have a right to pose their ideals on others and force medicating people.

As far as the over population propaganda you know we are over populated how?

[pcosmar]

As far as the over population propaganda you know we are over populated how?

Because the *Social Engineers and *Social Planners told them so.

*socialists

[donnay]

Because the *Social Engineers and *Social Planners told them so.

*socialists


Absolutely. We're told there are 7 billion people on the planet--of course it is only a guesstimate. Our country, alone, is indiscriminately killing people daily.

[ZenBowman]

Because the *Social Engineers and *Social Planners told them so.

*socialists

Read his post again, he said that there are finite resources on the planet, and you cannot have infinite people with finite resources.

If overpopulation is never an issue, we should have no problem inviting all of South America to move to the USA.

[ZenBowman]

How about Bill Gate funding geo-engineering projects?


US geoengineers funded by Bill Gates to spray sun-reflecting chemicals into atmosphere to artificially cool the planet (http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/jul/17/us-geoengineers-spray-sun-balloon)


I think you have to take a consistent stance on this. Either pollution should be banned or it shouldn't. If it should, then it should apply to oil producers just as much as geoengineers. If it shouldn't, and oil producers are free to spew effluents, then geoengineers should also be allowed to do the same.

[shane77m]

http://youtu.be/LwYGLs7Nfe4

I agree with Al.

[donnay]

I think you have to take a consistent stance on this. Either pollution should be banned or it shouldn't. If it should, then it should apply to oil producers just as much as geoengineers. If it shouldn't, and oil producers are free to spew effluents, then geoengineers should also be allowed to do the same.


I do not think you understand the gravity of these people who try to play God. Who gives these people a right to change our atmosphere, put sodium fluoride in our water, and force vaccines on anyone? That is what these philanthropic groups do. All under the auspices of helping people. Wolves in sheep's clothing!

[donnay]

*double post*

[pcosmar]

If overpopulation is never an issue, we should have no problem inviting all of South America to move to the USA.

What does one have to do with the other?
Non sequitur
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_sequitur_%28logic%29

[Zippyjuan]

Absolutely. We're told there are 7 billion people on the planet--of course it is only a guesstimate. Our country, alone, is indiscriminately killing people daily.

With all of the eugenicists running around and all the ways goverment and the corporations are trying to kill us off, one would think that number would be going down.

[donnay]

With all of the eugenicists running around and all the ways goverment and the corporations are trying to kill us off, one would think that number would be going down.


How do you know it isn't?

[pcosmar]

With all of the eugenicists running around and all the ways goverment and the corporations are trying to kill us off, one would think that number would be going down.

There have been efforts going on for over 100 years,,
Fortunately there has also been opposition.
It does not stop them from re-branding it and pushing it again and again.

[Zippyjuan]

If the efforts have been going on for 100 years, then they really suck since population in 1912 was 1.6 billion and it is now four and a half times larger (and forcast to continue to grow).

[Zippyjuan]

How do you know it isn't?

Have you noticed cities getting less densely populated? I haven't. Are the roads less crowded? If the population is going down there should be more room for everybody than there was in the past.

[donnay]

Have you noticed cities getting less densely populated? I haven't. Are the roads less crowded? If the population is going down there should be more room for everybody than there was in the past.


That is because more people are being lured to the big cities where the jobs are. There's tons of places less populated all around the country--most are rural and not many jobs.

[Zippyjuan]

What would you estimate the world population to be if it is shrinking and the 7 billlion figure is wrong and when did the shrinking start?

Thank you for your input.

Should we try to increase the population as much as possible?

[pcosmar]

.

Should we try to increase the population as much as possible?

Shoot for 20 Billion,, then 50..
Think of all the wonderful minds we have yet to meet.

[donnay]

What would you estimate the world population to be if it is shrinking and the 7 billlion figure is wrong and when did the shrinking start?

Thank you for your input.

Should we try to increase the population as much as possible?


I couldn't honestly give you an estimate because there are places in the world, that not many people have even explored, much less inhabited. I would say the turn started when the eugenicists started to enter the equations and gain power. These people are sheer psychopaths. They love playing God.

[Zippyjuan]

I take it you are opposed to people having access to voluntary birth control (which is what Gates has been promoting).
That is a psychopath playing God?

Was Ron Paul playing God when he prescribed birth control pills?

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/03/ron-paul-says-he-prescribed-birth-control-when-a-practicing-ob-gyn/



Ron Paul Says He Prescribed Birth Control When a Practicing OB-GYN

Ron Paul, during an appearance on “The Tonight Show with Jay Leno” Tuesday night admitted that he prescribed birth control pills during his time as a practicing OB-GYN in Texas.

“I was also putting myself out of business, all this birth control,” said Paul adding, “They had less babies.”

The Texas congressman, who is credited with delivering 4,000 babies during his four decade career, also said he wouldn’t ban the morning after bill, equating it to “surgical instruments” which although might be used for certain things, shouldn’t be banned.

Paul made the comments after Leno asked the congressman if he ever prescribed birth control to patients –a contentious issue this campaign cycle and a practice opposed by his chief GOP rivals.

[pcosmar]

I take it you are opposed to people having access to voluntary birth control


Where did the concept of,,and push for Birth Control come from?
Who has promoted and expanded on it?

What was their ideology and what are their goals?

Answer these before defending their plans.

[Zippyjuan]

Actually it came from women who were tired of men telling them what to do. They wanted more control over their lives (isn't that liberty?)

Probably one of the earliest examples of this comes from Aristophanes's Lysistrata. http://www.sparknotes.com/drama/lysistrata/summary.html

[jonhowe]

How about Bill Gate funding geo-engineering projects?


US geoengineers funded by Bill Gates to spray sun-reflecting chemicals into atmosphere to artificially cool the planet (http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/jul/17/us-geoengineers-spray-sun-balloon)


I have a REAL problem with people who think they have a right to pose their ideals on others and force medicating people.

As far as the over population propaganda you know we are over populated how?


2 things:

1. I don't much care for that experiment, but it IS just that... an experiment. He's not funding a project to fill the sky with the stuff, but an experiment. I said before, I don't agree with everything the foundation does.

2. I didn't say the earth is over populated. I said the earth cannot support infinite population growth. I see no reason to believe that the trend of global population growth has changed, do you?



Also, Pcosmar, for someone who doesn't like to have words put in your mouth, you sure like to do it a lot.

[pcosmar]

Also, Pcosmar, for someone who doesn't like to have words put in your mouth, you sure like to do it a lot.

Where?, Just went over my posts. Where?

I do not care for socialism, Social engineering, Social Controls or socialists.
Nor do I care for their programs and agendas.

I make no apology for that.

[donnay]

Actually it came from women who were tired of men telling them what to do. They wanted more control over their lives (isn't that liberty?)

Probably one of the earliest examples of this comes from Aristophanes's Lysistrata. http://www.sparknotes.com/drama/lysistrata/summary.html


You mean the phony feminist movement?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NN05DHO9bJw

[donnay]

2 things:

1. I don't much care for that experiment, but it IS just that... an experiment. He's not funding a project to fill the sky with the stuff, but an experiment. I said before, I don't agree with everything the foundation does.

2. I didn't say the earth is over populated. I said the earth cannot support infinite population growth. I see no reason to believe that the trend of global population growth has changed, do you?


The world cannot support infinite population growth? And you know this how?

[PaulConventionWV]

If the efforts have been going on for 100 years, then they really suck since population in 1912 was 1.6 billion and it is now four and a half times larger (and forcast to continue to grow).

Last I heard, the forecast is that it is tapering. We can't have infinite people on the planet, correct, but the world will never let it reach that high. There is a certain point at which the population will taper off. That should be common sense to everyone here.

[jonhowe]

The world cannot support infinite population growth? And you know this how?

Because there is finite space on the face of the earth. Even if EVERYONE on the WHOLE earth lived in giant sky scrapers, if the population continued to go up FOREVER, space would run out. This is just a fact. To say otherwise would be to say that the clown car can support an INFINITE number of clowns, rather than just "a lot" of clowns.


MUCH more likely, however, would be a supply shortage, whether regional or global, that would limit population. This is likely what would happen if the population just continued growing.

Much more preferable, however, is if everyone had access to the healthcare, education, and freedom that only (I believe) the free market can provide, which leads to smaller families.

[donnay]

Because there is finite space on the face of the earth. Even if EVERYONE on the WHOLE earth lived in giant sky scrapers, if the population continued to go up FOREVER, space would run out. This is just a fact. To say otherwise would be to say that the clown car can support an INFINITE number of clowns, rather than just "a lot" of clowns.


MUCH more likely, however, would be a supply shortage, whether regional or global, that would limit population. This is likely what would happen if the population just continued growing.

Much more preferable, however, is if everyone had access to the healthcare, education, and freedom that only (I believe) the free market can provide, which leads to smaller families.

That's completely a fallacy that so many people are told over and over again. As I said before there are places on this earth humans haven't even explored or even inhabited for that matter.

However, it is most governments who starve and deprive the people, not over population and the people themselves.

Government was instrumental in breaking up the big families. The families who helped on family farms and were self-reliant and self-sufficient.

Have you happen to see the ghost cities China has?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17390729
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1339536/Ghost-towns-China-Satellite-images-cities-lying-completely-deserted.html

With a Billion people they still have room for a whole lot more.

Stop buying into the eugenicists propaganda.

[jonhowe]

That's completely a fallacy that so many people are told over and over again. As I said before there are places on this earth humans haven't even explored or even inhabited for that matter.

However, it is most governments who starve and deprive the people, not over population and the people themselves.

Government was instrumental in breaking up the big families. The families who helped on family farms and were self-reliant and self-sufficient.

Have you happen to see the ghost cities China has?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17390729
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1339536/Ghost-towns-China-Satellite-images-cities-lying-completely-deserted.html

With a Billion people they still have room for a whole lot more.

Stop buying into the eugenicists propaganda.

So. If people keep reproducing faster than they die, forever, until the sun supposedly explodes in a few billion years... there can NEVER be too many? Ever?

Just like, we can keep using fossil fuels at an increasing rate? Because they can never run out, right? I'm not saying there isn't a LOT of room, or a LOT of oil under the ground, I'm just saying that there IS finite room, and finite oil.


I'm not saying governments should feed people, or keep their populations down, or provide birth control, or break up families, or ANYTHING. I'm saying that it is a good thing for charities and foundations to do to help provide the OPTION of living a healthier, more educated, and freer life to those born into bad lots in life. It would be, as you point out, much easier to do WITHOUT government.

[donnay]

So. If people keep reproducing faster than they die, forever, until the sun supposedly explodes in a few billion years... there can NEVER be too many? Ever?

Just like, we can keep using fossil fuels at an increasing rate? Because they can never run out, right? I'm not saying there isn't a LOT of room, or a LOT of oil under the ground, I'm just saying that there IS finite room, and finite oil.


I'm not saying governments should feed people, or keep their populations down, or provide birth control, or break up families, or ANYTHING. I'm saying that it is a good thing for charities and foundations to do to help provide the OPTION of living a healthier, more educated, and freer life to those born into bad lots in life. It would be, as you point out, much easier to do WITHOUT government.

I am of the belief-- "Infinity and beyond." The thing is people are not reproducing faster than they die. One of the very reason the boomer generation is going to have trouble collecting any of the social (IN)Security they have paid into, because the next generation is not big enough to support them. Of course, I am not saying that SS is a good thing.

[jonhowe]

I am of the belief-- "Infinity and beyond." The thing is people are not reproducing faster than they die. One of the very reason the boomer generation is going to have trouble collecting any of the social (IN)Security they have paid into, because the next generation is not big enough to support them. Of course, I am not saying that SS is a good thing.

All that proves is that in this country the RATE of increase is not increasing. SS requires each generation to be massively larger than that before it, whereas the generations behind the boomers are only moderately larger. In other words, excess money supply is increasing faster than the population at this point.

Plus, even if the population of the U.S. WAS shrinking, we are but 1 country.

[donnay]

All that proves is that in this country the RATE of increase is not increasing. SS requires each generation to be massively larger than that before it, whereas the generations behind the boomers are only moderately larger. In other words, excess money supply is increasing faster than the population at this point.

Plus, even if the population of the U.S. WAS shrinking, we are but 1 country.


Yes and I pointed out China who alleges has a Billion people has ghost towns which could house millions and still they have room to spare. India as well. Too many holes in the theory of over population and sustainabilty--sort of like the Climate change Nazis who insist people are causing the climate to change.

[Zippyjuan]

I guess we will also have unlimited food and water supplies for this infinite people as well. Soylent green perhaps? Yes, the world can contain more people than it does now. But infinite? No. If the world can handle an infinite amount of people then one acre should also be able to hold an infinite number of people.

[ZenBowman]

I guess we will also have unlimited food and water supplies for this infinite people as well. Soylent green perhaps? Yes, the world can contain more people than it does now. But infinite? No. If the world can handle an infinite amount of people then one acre should also be able to hold an infinite number of people.

Exactly, and then an infinite money supply should also not be any problem whatsoever.

Beyond a critical point within a finite space, freedom diminishes as numbers increase. This is as true of humans in the finite space of a planetary ecosystem as it is of gas molecules in a sealed flask. The human question is not how many can possibly survive within the system, but what kind of existence is possible for those who do survive.
- Pardot Kynes

When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe
- Thomas Jefferson

It is no coincidence that freedom dies as population density heads north.

[libertariantexas]

I guess this project is about helping poor people ( probably Africa ) get better access to sanitation so here is my project for the competition

Here it is.

http://i.istockimg.com/file_thumbview_approve/10728707/2/stock-photo-10728707-outdoor-toilet.jpg

It is based on reliable technology that has been tested for the past 2000 years.2 drunken sailors could make one of this in half a day.It could take longer but you could even make one of this without using any tools and it will cost you nothing but 1 or 2 meals for the duration it needs to be completed.

When it breaks it takes just 30 minutes to take apart the outer walls,and fill the hole with some dirt ( 100% Eco-friendly ) and another few hours to make a new one.

There are many diseases caused by poor sanitation, many of the worst of which are directly related to water being contaminated by fecal matter (that's whey your local water department tests the water regularly for FECAL coliform).

Most of us in the USA have been sitting fat, dumb and happy for over a hundred years, with minimal fear of death or serious disease from drinking contaminated water, but that isn't the case in much of the world. Diseases that once killed tens of thousands every year in the USA and Europe are all but unknown here, but they still sicken millions every year overseas, and kill many of those affected. We have modern sewage systems that take sewage away from us and treat it to make us safe. We also disinfect our water.

People in much of the world have none of that, their sanitation practices are like those in the West 200 or more years ago- essentially, they defecate wherever they can, and live their lives amongst the waste, which also contaminates their water.

Diseases like cholera (which was effectively eradicated by the use of chlorination), dysentery, and schistosomiasis are extremely rare here, but are commonplace overseas. Millions die from these diseases.

Uneducated Chuckleheads in the USA, most of whom have never been anyplace more primitive than Canada can sit and laugh, but this is a real problem in much of the world.

I don't know whether Gate's initiative will prove effective, but it might help, and this is no joke. He is spending a ton of his own money to help others, and all you have is silly jokes and stupid comments? You look foolish and childish when you mock someone for trying to do good and fix a problem that you know you know nothing about.

Gate's initiative may or not prove effective, but he is trying to help people- this isn't "liberal" or whatever other silly labels you want to put on it.

Regarding outhouses. Yes, they have been around forever. NO, they are NOT effective at preventing waterborne illness. Outhouses were not effective against, for example, cholera- a disease which took many lives in England and the USA even though we had outhouses.

[donnay]

I guess we will also have unlimited food and water supplies for this infinite people as well. Soylent green perhaps? Yes, the world can contain more people than it does now. But infinite? No. If the world can handle an infinite amount of people then one acre should also be able to hold an infinite number of people.

No people live infinitely--of course the eugenicists are trying their hardest to figure that out. David Rockefeller's time is running out.

[pcosmar]

Regarding outhouses. Yes, they have been around forever. NO, they are NOT effective at preventing waterborne illness. Outhouses were not effective against, for example, cholera- a disease which took many lives in England and the USA even though we had outhouses.
You apparently have not been reading the thread. This has been addressed.

Actually,, that is more due to cities and settlements pumping raw sewage into the water supply..
And in those areas of the world ,, to dead bodies and mass graves.
Sewage in the ground does not have that problem.

Perhaps they can just build decent sewage treatment if they wish,,
Gates has actually been focused in other directions.. like population control.
so color me skeptical.

Septic systems and outhouses are not the cause of the spread of disease. It is from Population centers pumping RAW WASTE into water supplies. That simply does not happen with an outhouse or proper septic system.

And outhouses,,even solar powered outhouses are not practical in cities.
They need sewage treatment and water treatment facilities.

Focusing on the type of toilet,,, is a whole nother thing.

I would much rather see research and development of Desalination and water treatment,, (without adding poisons)

[PaulConventionWV]

Exactly, and then an infinite money supply should also not be any problem whatsoever.

Beyond a critical point within a finite space, freedom diminishes as numbers increase. This is as true of humans in the finite space of a planetary ecosystem as it is of gas molecules in a sealed flask. The human question is not how many can possibly survive within the system, but what kind of existence is possible for those who do survive.
- Pardot Kynes

When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe
- Thomas Jefferson

It is no coincidence that freedom dies as population density heads north.

Sounds like government propaganda to me. This idea that freedom diminishes as numbers increase is just pure conjecture. Thomas Jefferson, I believe, was referring to the hardships of maintaining a Republican form of government with a large land mass and a large number of people. This is discussed quite a bit in the Anti-Federalist papers. I don't think he was talking about the simple fact that denser numbers of human beings limit an individual's freedom just by virtue of the fact that there are more people around them. This is evidenced by the fact that he used the word "corrupt". He didn't mean individually. He meant the government would become corrupt. The only way to prevent that is to prevent the government from feeding us this population control propaganda.

Besides, the fact that Thomas Jefferson was addressing this when the Earth's population was a mere fraction of what it is now is just more evidence that all our paranoia is not justified. If Thomas Jefferson was paranoid when the Earth was that small, look how we've survived since then. No doubt we'll survive just as well since now even with all this paranoia from overpopulation. I don't know if we are growing or not, but at some point, the Earth's population will naturally stabilize as has been shown to happen in populations of animals.

[donnay]

Exactly, and then an infinite money supply should also not be any problem whatsoever.

Beyond a critical point within a finite space, freedom diminishes as numbers increase. This is as true of humans in the finite space of a planetary ecosystem as it is of gas molecules in a sealed flask. The human question is not how many can possibly survive within the system, but what kind of existence is possible for those who do survive.
- Pardot Kynes

When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe
- Thomas Jefferson

It is no coincidence that freedom dies as population density heads north.

Freedoms die because people are born into slavery from the get-go. If they are taught freedom and understand it, the more the merrier.

"Liberty, when it begins to take root, is a plant of rapid growth." ~George Washington

"A nation of well informed men who have been taught to know and prize the rights which God has given them cannot be enslaved. It is in the region of ignorance that tyranny begins." ~Benjamin Franklin

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" ~Benjamin Franklin

"Human nature itself is evermore an advocate for liberty. There is also in human nature a resentment of injury, and indignation against wrong. A love of truth and a veneration of virtue. These amiable passions, are the "latent spark"... If the people are capable of understanding, seeing and feeling the differences between true and false, right and wrong, virtue and vice, to what better principle can the friends of mankind apply than to the sense of this difference?" ~John Adams

“If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny.” ~Thomas Jefferson

“I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.”
!Thomas Jefferson

"It is better to tolerate that rare instance of a parent’s refusing to let his child be educated, than to shock the common feelings by a forcible transportation and education of the infant against the will of his father." ~Thomas Jefferson

"No people will tamely surrender their Liberties, nor can any be easily subdued, when knowledge is diffused and Virtue is preserved. On the Contrary, when People are universally ignorant, and debauched in their Manners, they will sink under their own weight without the Aid of foreign Invaders." ~Samuel Adams

"...if the citizens neglect their Duty and place unprincipled men in office, the government will soon be corrupted; laws will be made, not for the public good so much as for selfish or local purposes; corrupt or incompetent men will be appointed to execute the Laws; the public revenues will be squandered on unworthy men; and the rights of the citizen will be violated or disregarded." ~Noah Webster

[jonhowe]

Yes and I pointed out China who alleges has a Billion people has ghost towns which could house millions and still they have room to spare. India as well. Too many holes in the theory of over population and sustainabilty--sort of like the Climate change Nazis who insist people are causing the climate to change.

You have yet to address my point. Human civilization is only thousands of years old. We could have BILLIONS left to go. If the earth's population continues to increase for even just another thousand years, not to mention billions, you REALLY think there wont be over crowding, stretched resources etc?
REALLY?



Also, to address brought up before (not by you Donnay, I don't think), has anyone found any evidence this funding was NOT private money from the foundation?

[ZenBowman]

Sounds like government propaganda to me. This idea that freedom diminishes as numbers increase is just pure conjecture.

Governments prefer more people, it makes them easier, not harder, to control.

Pretty much everything you spout sounds like big gov propaganda.

[roho76]

BSOD (Blue Screen of Death)


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8Fx7ZZfN4Zc/TVNeeeMS-jI/AAAAAAAAFcQ/RD8GaF28Cvw/s1600/DSC_0003.JPG

[PBrady]

As usual, the conspiracy theorists seem to have never heard of Occam's razor. The hoops you people are jumping through to bash a private investor for a selfless act is flat out nuts.

[donnay]

You have yet to address my point. Human civilization is only thousands of years old. We could have BILLIONS left to go. If the earth's population continues to increase for even just another thousand years, not to mention billions, you REALLY think there wont be over crowding, stretched resources etc?
REALLY?

How will you know, in the natural order of things you will not be around to know whether or not any of this can happen. The point is, that human beings can live to be 140 years old, yet they aren't due to westernized medicine practices indoctrinated by eugenicists.

[PBrady]

hahaha, this is too rich.

Where are all of these 140 year old people who aren't practicing westernized medicine (and therefore, I suppose, not indoctrinated by eugenicists...)?

[donnay]

As usual, the conspiracy theorists seem to have never heard of Occam's razor. The hoops you people are jumping through to bash a private investor for a selfless act is flat out nuts.


LOL! A selfless act--that's a good one. If he wanted to do selfless acts, then there would be no need to publicize said acts. If he (Gates) was really worried about third world countries getting diseases, he wouldn't push and promote harmful vaccines and genetically engineered foods.

The eugenicists all run under the auspices of Philanthropy. There has been missionaries, no one hears about, and people who truly care for humanity, as a whole, no one rarely hears about. If Gates was truly someone who truly cared about humanity, we wouldn't hear much about him either.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Bill and Melinda Gates foundation...

And the tax rate is....?

So like the Insider Trader of Omaha, foundations are given huge tax breaks (welfare) while these billionaire turds are polished-up GOLD for all the public contributions to America... that are subsidized by the very American taxpayers.

[donnay]

hahaha, this is too rich.

Where are all of these 140 year old people who aren't practicing westernized medicine (and therefore, I suppose, not indoctrinated by eugenicists...)?


Check out the Blue Zones

[PBrady]

^^^

That explains so much of your twisted view point. Hear about someone in the mainstream, and their goals must be nefarious. Only the unseen can be good.

I guess you forgot in your little missionary story there that the church has their base to take money from on a regular basis no questions asked whereas a non-profit doesn't have that luxury. Having a PR campaign doesn't just make something bad by default. But I don't totally expect conspiracy theorists to comprehend that.

[donnay]

^^^

That explains so much of your twisted view point. Hear about someone in the mainstream, and their goals must be nefarious. Only the unseen can be good.

I guess you forgot in your little missionary story there that the church has their base to take money from on a regular basis no questions asked whereas a non-profit doesn't have that luxury. Having a PR campaign doesn't just make something bad by default. But I don't totally expect conspiracy theorists to comprehend that.


Twisted logic? How about what our very own government does with bombing countries indiscriminately, killing many innocents all in the name of the war on terrorism? Now that is twisted logic.

[jonhowe]

Twisted logic? How about what our very own government does with bombing countries indiscriminately, killing many innocents all in the name of the war on terrorism? Now that is twisted logic.

He disagrees with you on one thing, therefore... he must be a war hawk?

[donnay]

He disagrees with you on one thing, therefore... he must be a war hawk?


No, I explaining 'twisted logic' so many people hold.

[ZenBowman]

As usual, the conspiracy theorists seem to have never heard of Occam's razor. The hoops you people are jumping through to bash a private investor for a selfless act is flat out nuts.

They are fascists, they hate it when individual people do good things, they think good can only be achieved through force and violence.

Conspiracism is the building block of fascism and the police state.

[Dr.3D]

As usual, the conspiracy theorists seem to have never heard of Occam's razor. The hoops you people are jumping through to bash a private investor for a selfless act is flat out nuts.
The principle is often incorrectly summarized as "other things being equal, a simpler explanation is better than a more complex one."

Besides, that has been used so much around here, it's gotten rather dull.

[pcosmar]

a private investor for a selfless act

I find that to be quite a stretch of imagination.

[Carson]

Apparently it is too late for a grant for another one of my ideas!

Well it's all I've got on short notice.

http://photos.imageevent.com/stokeybob/morestuff/1205-indian-corn-02.jpg

Better corn.

[Zippyjuan]

How will you know, in the natural order of things you will not be around to know whether or not any of this can happen. The point is, that human beings can live to be 140 years old, yet they aren't due to westernized medicine practices indoctrinated by eugenicists.
Why don't people not living under "westernized medicine practices indoctrinated by eugenicists." all live to 140 years?

List of verified "oldest living people" and how old they got:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldest_people


1

Jeanne Calment

F

21 February 1875

4 August 1997

122 years, 164 days

France



2

Sarah Knauss

F

24 September 1880

30 December 1999

119 years, 97 days

United States



3

Lucy Hannah

F

16 July 1875

21 March 1993

117 years, 248 days

United States



4

Marie-Louise Meilleur

F

29 August 1880

16 April 1998

117 years, 230 days

Canada



5

María Capovilla

F

14 September 1889

27 August 2006

116 years, 347 days

Ecuador



6

Tane Ikai

F

18 January 1879

12 July 1995

116 years, 175 days

Japan



7

Elizabeth Bolden

F

15 August 1890

11 December 2006

116 years, 118 days

United States



8

Carrie C. White

F

18 November 1874

14 February 1991

116 years, 88 days[5][6]

United States



9

Kamato Hongo

F

16 September 1887

31 October 2003

116 years, 45 days[5][7]

Japan



10

Besse Cooper

F

26 August 1896

Living

115 years, 358 days

United States


Note most born in US or other developed countries and all female. Only one made it to 120.

[Zippyjuan]

^^^

That explains so much of your twisted view point. Hear about someone in the mainstream, and their goals must be nefarious. Only the unseen can be good.

I guess you forgot in your little missionary story there that the church has their base to take money from on a regular basis no questions asked whereas a non-profit doesn't have that luxury. Having a PR campaign doesn't just make something bad by default. But I don't totally expect conspiracy theorists to comprehend that.

She is just contrarian. If business or government supports something, it must be bad. If they say it is bad, it must be good. Anything "official" must be harmful- anything "alternative" must be good for you.

[donnay]

Why don't people not living under "westernized medicine practices indoctrinated by eugenicists." all live to 140 years?

List of verified "oldest living people" and how old they got:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldest_people


Note most born in US or other developed countries and all female. Only one made it to 120.

You should research the Blue Zone. Yes, people can live to 140 years in the Blue Zone. "Hunzakuts," or "Hunza," people of the Himalayas live to be over 100 years old, and not uncommon for them to live to the age of 140.

[Zippyjuan]

The claims of 140 years old Hunza are in dispute.
http://p21chong.wordpress.com/2009/10/23/the-extraordinary-longevity-of-the-hunzakuts/

I first came by the above essential information some years back when researching on the question of longevity.

I cannot personally vouch the truth & validity of it all. This sounds too incredible. There’s such an abundance of information circulating in cyberspace today that before assimilating & accepting any you really need to research further. Also refrain from asking others, for opinions are about the cheapest commodities around, freely available.





This will be a worthwhile exercise to stimulate your mind, to energise & rejuvenate towards your own attainment of youth & longevity. Most people generally are gullible & accept anything in print as the Gospel truth, and yet ironically fail or reluctant to accept that which are written in the Holy Book.





In your quest for the truth, consider the following:
•
The Mir could have concocted the falsehood, just like he did with the news about the Abominable Snowmen in the Hunza mountains.

•
The Hunzakuts excelled in falsehoods about their ages, state of health & happiness.

•
The Hunzakuts kept no written records and did not know their calendar age.

•
The Hunza were not healthy or free from disease & lived in a very unsanitary environment.

•
The Hunza diet was not perfect as claimed.

•
The Mir of Hunza never provided verification of the longevity nor allowed others to investigate.



http://www.akealife.com/about/longevity-hot-spots/hunza-pakistan/

In the 1960s and 70s there were exaggerated reports of Hunzakuts living to 150 or 160 years old, but these hyped reports were discredited and as a result the media lost interest in Hunza. However, it is indeed a Longevity Hot Spot where chronic disease is virtually unknown and people are vibrant until very old ages. Hunzakuts also live idyllic lives where there is no crime, no mental illness, no police and no hospitals; just one medical center which is usually empty. According to Western physicians who have visited Hunza, digestive disorders do not exist and cancer rates are almost zero.


When the US cardiologists Dr. Paul Dudley White and Dr. Edward G Toomey visited Hunza in 1964, they reported in the American Heart Journal that of 25 Hunzakut men they studied who were ‘on fairly good evidence, between 90 and 110 years old’, none showed a single sign of coronary heart disease, high blood pressure, or high cholesterol. Most Hunzakuts expect to live at least until their 80s if not into their 90s and 100s without having any need to visit a doctor; older people are physically and mentally active, and the later years are referred to as the ‘rich’ years.

[donnay]

The claims of 140 years old Hunza are in dispute.
http://p21chong.wordpress.com/2009/10/23/the-extraordinary-longevity-of-the-hunzakuts/


http://www.akealife.com/about/longevity-hot-spots/hunza-pakistan/


"RETURN TO SHANGRI-LA I once took a trip to the hunza Valley in Pakistan. The hunza farmers terraced surrounding mountainsides to prevent soil erosion. As Mark discussed, mineral-rich glacial waters feed this soil. As a result, the Hunzas grow beautiful fruits, vegetables, and millet. Throughout my visit there, I could hardly believe the quality of health that I encountered. For example, I met a 140-year-old man whose eyes were clear, whose skin was smooth, and who still had every tooth in his head. I am convinced that diet played a part."
- Dr Bernard Jenson and Mark Anderson, Empty Harvest (http://astore.amazon.com/wsdm-20/detail/089529558X/105-8338622-4040425) (Get the book.)


"Remember, the Hunzas, the healthiest people in the world, stay young, virile, and vital and live in perfect health (arthritis is unknown in hunza) past 100 years of age?and they eat meat not more than once a month. Their diet is a high natural carbohydrate-low animal protein diet as advocated in this book. Health Destroyers What not to eat is, perhaps, even more important that what to eat when planning a program of vital nutrition. First and foremost, white sugar and all foods made with it should be totally excluded."
- Paavo Airola There is a Cure for Arthritis (http://astore.amazon.com/wsdm-20/detail/0139146989)(Get the book.)


"In March 1961, an article in the Journal of the American Medical Association reported on evidence that men in hunza lived to be 120 and even 140 years old. hunza men and women over 100 exhibited robust energy, in striking contrast to the epidemic of fatigue in our society. These people lived simply and without doctors or hospitals, without nursing homes. In America today we spend $1.5 trillion a year on health care and tens of billions of dollars studying disease. What is it buying us? Certainly not a long, disease-free life. Here's an idea: Study health instead of disease!"
- Raymond Francis, Never Be Sick Again: Health is a Choice, Learn How to Choose It (http://astore.amazon.com/wsdm-20/detail/1558749543) (Get the book.)

"The Remarkable Hunzas In a remote valley of the Himalayas, in what is now northeastern Pakistan, live the people of hunza, who were renowned for their near-perfect health, robust energy and extraordinary longevity. Though they lived under what we would consider primitive conditions, they regularly lived into their hundreds, and often lived to be 120 to 140 years old."

[PaulConventionWV]

Governments prefer more people, it makes them easier, not harder, to control.

Pretty much everything you spout sounds like big gov propaganda.

If you were paying attention, you would realize I said exactly what you just said with different words.

[PaulConventionWV]

They are fascists, they hate it when individual people do good things, they think good can only be achieved through force and violence.

Conspiracism is the building block of fascism and the police state.

You think conspiracies cause police states? I thought the police state WAS a conspiracy. Where do you draw the line? Why are people in power not capable of having an agenda?

[Dr.3D]

Apparently it is too late for a grant for another one of my ideas!

Well it's all I've got on short notice.

http://photos.imageevent.com/stokeybob/morestuff/1205-indian-corn-02.jpg

Better corn.
Well, I guess it is related just a bit. I know people often say they have corn in their poop.

[jonhowe]

Donnay, do you have any references based on science, rather than anecdote? I can find no actual reference to the AMA report referenced.

[donnay]

Donnay, do you have any references based on science, rather than anecdote? I can find no actual reference to the AMA report referenced.


You need to be more specific--I do not have the slightest idea what you are asking?

[ZenBowman]

You think conspiracies cause police states? I thought the police state WAS a conspiracy. Where do you draw the line? Why are people in power not capable of having an agenda?

People in power usually do have an agenda.

[Dr.3D]

People in power usually do have an agenda.
Somebody mentioned that back in 1887.

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."

[Zippyjuan]

"RETURN TO SHANGRI-LA I once took a trip to the hunza Valley in Pakistan. The hunza farmers terraced surrounding mountainsides to prevent soil erosion. As Mark discussed, mineral-rich glacial waters feed this soil. As a result, the Hunzas grow beautiful fruits, vegetables, and millet. Throughout my visit there, I could hardly believe the quality of health that I encountered. For example, I met a 140-year-old man whose eyes were clear, whose skin was smooth, and who still had every tooth in his head. I am convinced that diet played a part."
- Dr Bernard Jenson and Mark Anderson, Empty Harvest (http://astore.amazon.com/wsdm-20/detail/089529558X/105-8338622-4040425) (Get the book.)


"Remember, the Hunzas, the healthiest people in the world, stay young, virile, and vital and live in perfect health (arthritis is unknown in hunza) past 100 years of age?and they eat meat not more than once a month. Their diet is a high natural carbohydrate-low animal protein diet as advocated in this book. Health Destroyers What not to eat is, perhaps, even more important that what to eat when planning a program of vital nutrition. First and foremost, white sugar and all foods made with it should be totally excluded."
- Paavo Airola There is a Cure for Arthritis (http://astore.amazon.com/wsdm-20/detail/0139146989)(Get the book.)


"In March 1961, an article in the Journal of the American Medical Association reported on evidence that men in hunza lived to be 120 and even 140 years old. hunza men and women over 100 exhibited robust energy, in striking contrast to the epidemic of fatigue in our society. These people lived simply and without doctors or hospitals, without nursing homes. In America today we spend $1.5 trillion a year on health care and tens of billions of dollars studying disease. What is it buying us? Certainly not a long, disease-free life. Here's an idea: Study health instead of disease!"
- Raymond Francis, Never Be Sick Again: Health is a Choice, Learn How to Choose It (http://astore.amazon.com/wsdm-20/detail/1558749543) (Get the book.)

"The Remarkable Hunzas In a remote valley of the Himalayas, in what is now northeastern Pakistan, live the people of hunza, who were renowned for their near-perfect health, robust energy and extraordinary longevity. Though they lived under what we would consider primitive conditions, they regularly lived into their hundreds, and often lived to be 120 to 140 years old."

All of those cite the same stories from 1960's including the Journal of the American Medical Association (link): http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=330542

The reported lifespans were later disproved.

http://www.rtbot.net/hunza_people

Healthy living advocate J.I. Rodale wrote a book called The Healthy Hunzas' in 1955 that asserted that the Hunzas, noted for their longevity and many centenarians, were long-lived because of their consumption of healthy organic foods such as dried apricots and almonds, as well as them getting plenty of fresh air and exercise. He often mentioned them in his Prevention magazine as exemplary of the benefits of leading a healthy live style.

John Clark stayed among the Hunza people for 20 months and reported in his book, "Hunza - Lost Kingdom of the Himalayas" that Hunza do not measure their age solely by calendar (metaphorically speaking, as he also said there were no calendars), but also by personal estimation of wisdom, leading to notions of typical lifespans of 120 or greater. He also reported at one stage having as many as forty patients, and that he was very successful in treating malaria and staphylococcus with medical drugs, but had trouble with dysentery.

[IDefendThePlatform]

Just read this article by wycleff jean about how cholera killed thousands of Haitians since the 2010 earthquake. If gates comes up with a goo toilet he could save a lot of lives:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/24/opinion/jean-haiti/index.html?c=homepage-t&page=0