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Keith and stuff
08-14-2012, 01:00 PM
Amtrak’s $16 hamburger
http://articles.boston.com/2012-08-13/opinion/33166077_1_food-service-long-distance-routes-hamburger
JOHN E. SUNUNU

You might know of John E. Sununu. While he was a US Senator from NH, he was known as 1 of the least bad US Senators. Though, that was a time before Rand Paul when most of the US Senators were pretty awful.

Sununu used the Amtrak news to segway into how ObamaCare is horrible. Going back to the Amtrak food issue, though, I have a solution. Amtrak would make money off of food if it leased out the kitchen areas of the trains for money. If a company cannot make money with cooked food, it could simply buy fruits, drinks and junk food in bulk at Costco and sell it to riders. If that didn't work, just use vending machines with non-perishable food and drinks.


When is a hamburger not just a hamburger? When it costs Amtrak $16 to make. They sell it for $9.50, and taxpayers cover the difference — every time. Then it becomes a glaring symbol for spiraling costs, crippling deficits, and the inherent inefficiencies of big government.

Thirty years ago, the idea of Amtrak losing money on food sales was as outrageous as it is today. (Hungry customers on a moving train with nowhere else to go. How hard can it be?) In fact, it was so outrageous that Congress passed a law against it. The Amtrak Improvement Act of 1981 prohibits the government-owned company from selling food at a loss. Nice try. Today, Amtrak is selling more and losing more than ever before.

This month the Government Accountability Office reported that losses on food service exceeded $80 million last year and totaled $834 million during the past decade. Auditors blamed the staggering losses — most of which occur on Amtrak’s 15 long-distance routes — on waste, theft, and lack of oversight. That’s only a fraction of the total losses from long distance operations, but it’s real money nonetheless.


Equally important, the distressing consistency of these losses demonstrates once again that government can’t reform itself. Blame the eternal optimism of Congress here. Like the 1981 law that prohibited losses on food sales, another that passed in 1997 demanded a path to profitability — without actually legislating specific changes to routes, head count, wages, or prices. If you leave all the decisions to a government-owned bureaucracy, you’re going to get the kind of decisions that a government-owned bureaucracy tends to make: poor ones.

Despite three decades of operational failures and over $25 billion in government subsidies, true believers still defend the system. For these hardy souls, no amount of economic reality will change their opinion — not the absurdity of running routes that lose $400 per passenger, not the idea of losing $200 on every long-distance ticket sold, and not the notion of losing $6.50 on every hamburger made.

But if Amtrak can’t make money on a hamburger after 30 years, what makes anyone believe that the government can effectively manage health insurance exchanges, control healthcare costs, or improve the quality of the medical care you receive? Stay tuned.

Zippyjuan
08-14-2012, 01:05 PM
tell it to riders.

Amen! Tell it to the riders people! Halleluja! Can I get an Amen!

(sorry- spelling error has been corrected! Just having a bit of fun).

phill4paul
08-14-2012, 01:06 PM
Scrap it. If it cannot be self sufficient it needs to die.

heavenlyboy34
08-14-2012, 01:09 PM
Blame the eternal optimism of Congress
More like the eternal corruption and stupidity of Congress. ;)

Czolgosz
08-14-2012, 01:31 PM
A single issue, emblematic of the entire body. Statism is a cult.

Are you certain of your ability to convince enough cultists to think and act independently, enough so they'll change the Human paradigm?

ravedown
08-14-2012, 02:28 PM
man- id love to share this with my lib friends-but with sanunu's name attached to it....forget it.

angelatc
08-14-2012, 02:38 PM
man- id love to share this with my lib friends-but with sanunu's name attached to it....forget it.

If you Google it, the information is out there in other places too. Here's a USA today article.http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/story/2012-08-02/amtrak-congress-food-beverage-losses/56719770/1

ravedown
08-14-2012, 02:45 PM
cool thanks-

Keith and stuff
08-14-2012, 03:06 PM
Here is the Amtrak route listing by profitability. The only route with substantial profits is the 16 station Acela route (http://www.amtrak.com/acela-express-train) from Boston to DC.

http://subsidyscope.org/transportation/direct-expenditures/amtrak/table/

By far the worst long distance route is the Sunset Limited route (http://www.amtrak.com/sunset-limited-train). Depending on how subsidyscope.org looks at the numbers, Amtrak loses b/t $-437.82 and $-462.11 per passenger on the Sunset Limited.

John F Kennedy III
08-14-2012, 03:34 PM
$16 to make a hamburger?

Keith and stuff
08-14-2012, 03:37 PM
$16 to make a hamburger? And it costs $3.40 to make a soda which sells for $2 on Amtrak.

Demigod
08-14-2012, 03:51 PM
For 16 dollars I could make a 3 course meal + deserts for 2 people. Without desert for 3 .

If I just go out and buy a hamburger I could get 5 hamburgers with natural barbecue grilled meat and fries.There is no way a hamburger can cost 16 dollars to make.

phill4paul
08-14-2012, 03:53 PM
For 16 dollars I could make a 3 course meal + deserts for 2 people. Without desert for 3 .

If I just go out and buy a hamburger I could get 5 hamburgers with natural barbecue grilled meat and fries.There is no way a hamburger can cost 16 dollars to make.

It can if you can throw the overpriced bone to an associate in the food industry for a kickback knowing the government was gonna cover the loss.

dannno
08-14-2012, 03:58 PM
Depending on how subsidyscope.org looks at the numbers, Amtrak loses b/t $-437.82 and $-462.11 per passenger on the Sunset Limited.

I'm guessing the reason they lose so much is because they are charging $538 for round trip L.A. -> New Orleans

Pretty sure i could get a plane ticket for that much.

Why the fuck would I take the train??

Maybe if it was $200 and they didn't run so many trains they'd have the trains full?

phill4paul
08-14-2012, 04:05 PM
I'm guessing the reason they lose so much is because they are charging $538 for round trip L.A. -> New Orleans

Pretty sure i could get a plane ticket for that much.

Why the fuck would I take the train??

Maybe if it was $200 and they didn't run so many trains they'd have the trains full?

That would require someone to do a cost analysis and create a business model that was, at least, self-sufficient. No need to do that if you are getting subsidies.

mac_hine
08-14-2012, 04:44 PM
Kokesh had a good take on this.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_eBJozRDlk&feature=youtube_gdata_player

DerailingDaTrain
08-14-2012, 05:03 PM
Amen! Tell it to the riders people! Halleluja! Can I get an Amen!

(sorry- spelling error has been corrected! Just having a bit of fun).

I thought it was spelled hallelujah

The Free Hornet
08-14-2012, 05:13 PM
Truth be told, I don't know if I could make a hamburger for less on a moving train. It may be the case that $9.50 is the optimal price where they lose the least amount of money (assuming you won't fire the cook, cancel his pension, close down the diner, or convert to vending as suggested).

They deal with nine unions (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22727600/ns/business-us_business/t/amtrak-deal-union-averts-strike/) - that's gotta suck.

This burger may be an absurdity but it likely has three dozen absurdities piled on top with ludicrousness on the side.

Cutlerzzz
08-14-2012, 05:24 PM
Can someone go over the numbers on how making a hamburger costs $16?

Like, I'm not even mad. That's impressive. How are you able to waste that much money on a burger?

ronpaulfollower999
08-14-2012, 05:37 PM
Here is the Amtrak route listing by profitability. The only route with substantial profits is the 16 station Acela route (http://www.amtrak.com/acela-express-train) from Boston to DC.

http://subsidyscope.org/transportation/direct-expenditures/amtrak/table/

By far the worst long distance route is the Sunset Limited route (http://www.amtrak.com/sunset-limited-train). Depending on how subsidyscope.org looks at the numbers, Amtrak loses b/t $-437.82 and $-462.11 per passenger on the Sunset Limited.

The Northeast Corridor is hardly profitable, once you add in the cost to maintain the 400 miles. Amtrak does "funny" math and transfers the cost of the Norrheast Corridor to their long distance trains.

Of course, highways and airports are subsided too which distorts the market. Don't forget regulations and labor unions (the latter causes the hamburger to cost $16).

End all subsidies.

ronpaulfollower999
08-14-2012, 05:42 PM
Truth be told, I don't know if I could make a hamburger for less on a moving train. It may be the case that $9.50 is the optimal price where they lose the least amount of money (assuming you won't fire the cook, cancel his pension, close down the diner, or convert to vending as suggested).

They deal with nine unions (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22727600/ns/business-us_business/t/amtrak-deal-union-averts-strike/) - that's gotta suck.

This burger may be an absurdity but it likely has three dozen absurdities piled on top with ludicrousness on the side.

Bingo. Amtrak tried contracting food service to Subway on their New York State trains, but the unions had a fit.

Len Larson
08-14-2012, 05:45 PM
Too bad we can't resurrect J.J. Hill.

oyarde
08-14-2012, 11:45 PM
I'm guessing the reason they lose so much is because they are charging $538 for round trip L.A. -> New Orleans

Pretty sure i could get a plane ticket for that much.

Why the fuck would I take the train??

Maybe if it was $200 and they didn't run so many trains they'd have the trains full? Plane ticket , about $400 , no bags , if 3 to 4 weeks in advance , no Holidays...

oyarde
08-14-2012, 11:57 PM
I spent , about $22 today , for breakfast , I had, two eggs over easy , chipped beef gravy over a slice of bread, 1 1/2 bratwurts with some horseradish sauce , coffee , grape juice( all meals made at home ) , lunch , fried spam sandwich with swiss cheese , a bratwurst , a pork chop , some sliced tomatoes soaked in vinegar , dinner , fried chicken breast , mashed potatoes ( I grew ) , gravy , bought today, an eighteen pack of tall boy beers , warm , a pack of cigarettes , a cold single beer out of the liquor store cooler and three gallons of gas ......... $16 dollars for a burger , LOL .

KingRobbStark
08-15-2012, 12:02 AM
With 16 dollars I can make 7 hamburgers (probably more) easy.

Anti Federalist
08-15-2012, 01:40 AM
Scrap it. If it cannot be self sufficient it needs to die.

Throw it in the woods.

VIDEODROME
08-15-2012, 02:49 AM
I think Amtrak was mandated by Congress to provide the food service. Between them and the Unions their hands are probably tied.


Anyway, I think even airlines have trouble with this but they're more aggressive about dealing with it. Price Inflation maybe?


For what it's worth I would rather travel by Amtrak then by plan. I took a trip straight into Penn Station in NYC city and it was a neat way to travel. I also thought the food was better then airplane food.

Also, no TSA.

luctor-et-emergo
08-15-2012, 03:02 AM
16$ hamburger...

Anyone that has a picture of one of those expensive 'microwave hamburger-resembling substrate' things ?
I'm curious what such a thing might look like.

Personally I make my own burgers with organic meat on the bbq/smoker.. With bacon, cheese and everything, they cost like ? Next to nothing.
I could make at least 6 smoked double cheeseburgers with lots of toppings for 16$.

But I'd still like to see this 16$ horror sandwich.

RPtotheWH
08-15-2012, 04:36 AM
man- id love to share this with my lib friends-but with sanunu's name attached to it....forget it.

That is the Boston Globe-democrat, it is a hardcore lib paper.