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donnay
08-11-2012, 03:52 PM
Big Pharma’s Lies Exposed – Cancer IS Curable
http://fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/big-pharmas-lies-exposed-cancer-is-curable/19239/

One out of four Americans will develop cancer in their lifetime. More than 350,000 people die every year from cancer in this country. And the sad truth is, it is entirely preventable, due to one simple fact: GREED.

For hundreds of years, British sailors died by the thousands every year from scurvy. Physicians were completely baffled by this dread disease. They believed it was caused by a virus or bacteria of some type. It wasn’t until 1747 that John Lind, a surgeon’s mate in the British Navy found that citrus fruits (lemons, oranges) could counteract the effects of scurvy, but his recommendations would not be implemented for another forty eight years, thus finally ending the scourge of this disease. It was simply nothing more than the lack of vitamin C.

In 1952 , Dr. Ernst T. Krebs Jr. discovered that cancer, like scurvy, was also caused by a simple vitamin deficiency, namely vitamin B-17, which is found in over 1,200 edible plants in the world. Unfortunately, the vast majority of these plants are no longer in common use these days, hence the high incidence of cancer today. What’s known as nitrilosides are the determining factor for not only preventing the growth of cancer cells, but also the destruction of them.

These nitrilosides occur naturally in many foods such as various grains, grasses etc., but the highest concentrations are to be found in the seeds of certain fruits, with the apricot being at the top of the list. The kernel found inside the hard shell of the apricot seed is rich in this compound. It looks just like an almond, but doesn’t taste like one, being fairly bitter in nature.

In the Himalayas, there is the kingdom of Hunza, between China, Pakistan and India. Many of the people who live there often live to be 100 years old or more. One of the most amazing and unique things about these people, is that there has never been a single reported case of cancer among them, EVER. This is an incredible statistic, considering the vast amounts of carcinogens polluting our planet these days. You may well say “ But they live in the highest mountains, far from the influences of this modern age.” That is true, but it would not account for such things as radiation ( all the above ground atomic tests from the 50’s ), chemtrails ( for over two decades now ), and all the other various pollutants in our atmosphere today.

The diet of these people contains more than 200 times the amount of nitrilosides as the average American’s does. The man who owns the most apricot trees is considered to be the richest person among them. One very revealing fact is that when anyone who grows up in this area, then leaves to live elsewhere, is then just as susceptible to cancer as everyone else, unless they were to continue consuming large amounts of apricot kernels, or other foods high rich in this compound wherever they go.

Eskimos also have a diet high in nitrilosides, and also never contract cancer, as long as they adhere to their traditional foods. The same is true for the Hopi and Navajo Indian tribes. There are other groups too, and the one thing they all have in common is diets rich in nitrilosides.

There is a certain type of cell present in the early stages of pregnancy known as a trophoblast cell. It is almost identical to the most virulent form of cancer cells. When this cell combines with another type of cell ( I can barely pronounce the name, let alone spell it ) together they are able to form any organ or part of the human body.

Trophoblast cells are protected from the body’s natural defenses ( white cells ) by a protein coating containing a negative electrostatic charge, which white cells also have, thereby repelling each other. Cancer cells also have this same coating, which is why our white cells cannot attack them. Trophoblast cells continue to function up until the eighth week of pregnancy, when the pancreas is formed, and then begin to die off, as they are no longer needed.

This is how vitamin B-17 ( also known as Amygdaline and Laetrile ) works: it’s a combination of three things; two units of sugar, one of benzaldehyde, and one of cyanide, to form a single molecule. The cyanide, when combined with these other two elements, is rendered inert UNTIL they come in contact with the protein coating of cancer cells. In fact the cyanide and benzaldehyde together are 100 times more toxic than either one by itself. An enzyme in the coating of the cancer cell then unlocks and releases these two deadly toxins, which then kills the cancer cell. This enzyme which facilitates this process is found ONLY in cancer cells, nowhere else in our bodies. There is another enzyme which, after the cancer cell is destroyed, then converts the cyanide into a harmless by-product that is actually beneficial for our systems. Nature is simply amazing, is it not?

The reason the ‘government’ removed B-17 and Laetrile ( the purest form of B-17 ) from the market in the mid-eighties is simple: because it works. Ask yourself this question: why would Big Pharma want something natural ( AND cheap ) that cures cancer, to be known by the general public, when they can charge thousands of dollars for their “voodoo witch-doctor” ( my term ) cures like chemo and radiation treatments that actually kill more healthy cells than cancerous ones?

My reasons for writing this article are twofold. #1 is to educate people.

And #2 ? Because I lost my younger sister at age 33, and my mother in ’96 to this dread disease, and both of them went through their “voodoo witch-doctor” so-called cures, and these Satanic lowlife scumbags knew all along their ‘cures’ didn’t work. It was all for GREED. When I discovered this deception early on in my research on the NWO, it was at that point I decided to investigate AND expose every dirty little secret these elitist scum have. know this cure works.

You may very well ask me how I personally know this cure works. Fair enough, I would ask the same question myself, of anyone making such a bold claim.

About a year and a half ago, a good friend of mine, John, called me up and asked to see the dvd that I got this information from, G. Edward Griffin’s “ A World Without Cancer” ( also available as a book ). He knew I had been eating apricot kernels for a while by then. He then told me that he had a patch of skin cancer about the size of a silver dollar on the back of his leg, and asked me where I was buying my kernels from.

After eating the kernels for about two months, his cancer was completely gone. This works.

These Satanic NWO elitist scum murdered – YES, MURDERED – two of my nearest and dearest family members, just as surely as if they had put a gun to their heads and pulled the trigger themselves. This is why I post under the screen name I do. I feel I have as much right to lay claim to that title as anyone, after what they did to my family.

THEY’RE the ones who made this personal.

So be it.

RickyJ
08-11-2012, 05:39 PM
Thank you for this post, it just reminded me to get some apricot seeds. :)

MelissaWV
08-11-2012, 05:44 PM
Wow and if the apricot seeds had not worked, I'm sure they would have gladly assumed the title of murderer?

Icymudpuppy
08-11-2012, 06:12 PM
http://www.livestrong.com/article/85705-foods-rich-vitamin-b17/

Most fruit and berry seeds are rich in B-17. My favorites which grow naturally in abundance around here are blackberry, marionberry, raspberry, salmonberry, and service berry.

redbluepill
08-11-2012, 07:07 PM
I can't really speak from experience on this alternative cancer prevention/treatment but I will say this: How hypocritical is it for anyone in medicine or politics to support the banning of such supplements while promoting dangerous treatments like chemotherapy.

Travlyr
08-11-2012, 07:19 PM
Thanks for the best information of the year. I just received my "bitter" B-17 Apricot seeds. There're great. Three a day... or an Apple a day keeps the doctor away... including the seeds. I love them for their benefit. I'm going to live forever! Eternal life! Thanks Doll.

Or I will die young. The song says, That "only the good die young." Is 69 young? How about 60? How about 57? How about 45? Is that young? How about 29? Is 29 young? ... If so, then I'm 29. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

KCIndy
08-11-2012, 07:35 PM
What?

Chemotherapy might be dangerous? But that's not what the doctors say.... no.... wait.... WHAT??

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-08-06/news/33069701_1_healthy-cells-tumor-cells-chemotherapy



Shock study: Chemo can backfire, make cancer worse
Monday, August 06, 2012

Long considered the most effective cancer-fighting treatment, chemotherapy may actually make cancer worse, according to a shocking new study.

The extremely aggressive therapy, which kills both cancerous and healthy cells indiscriminately, can cause healthy cells to secrete a protein that sustains tumor growth and resistance to further treatment.

Researchers in the United States made the "completely unexpected" finding while seeking to explain why cancer cells are so resilient inside the human body when they are easy to kill in the lab.


What I find truly incredible is how many people actually find this story to be surprising.... :(

tttppp
08-11-2012, 07:38 PM
I love how during the ads for medications, they always say there is no cure for the disease, so take our pill. When in fact Chinese traditional medicine has cured most of those problems for thousands of years. I'm sure there are other cures as well.

John F Kennedy III
08-11-2012, 07:47 PM
I need to buy some apricot seeds.

Working Poor
08-11-2012, 07:56 PM
I need to buy some apricot seeds.

yea before all the trees get killed...

DGambler
08-11-2012, 08:35 PM
I thought I had read somewhere that apricot seed, apple seeds and many other fruit seeds contain cyanide? Any other high b17 foods out there? How much do you need to take daily?

Dr.3D
08-11-2012, 08:41 PM
I thought I had read somewhere that apricot seed, apple seeds and many other fruit seeds contain cyanide? Any other high b17 foods out there? How much do you need to take daily?
I ate 7 apricot kernels this morning. I have heard, 7 a day is enough to maintain ones health.

Dr.3D
08-11-2012, 08:41 PM
double post

For some reason, I clicked reply to post once and then got a message, "leave thread" I clicked "yes" and got this second post.

thoughtomator
08-11-2012, 09:11 PM
I never understood the logic in saturating someone with massive doses of unambiguously harmful radiation in order to heal them.

KevinR
08-11-2012, 09:35 PM
The science and politics of cancer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctd-QF982mA

Keith and stuff
08-11-2012, 10:27 PM
Thanks. When I get cancer, I'll try these.

QuickZ06
08-11-2012, 11:29 PM
........

Feelgood
08-12-2012, 01:36 AM
Cesium Chloride

Dr.3D
08-12-2012, 07:05 AM
Thanks. When I get cancer, I'll try these.
Seven a day is supposed to keep you from getting it. I don't know how many a day you are supposed to take if you already have it.

RonRules
08-12-2012, 07:23 AM
You're all going to die as soon as you get cancer.

Go Darwin GO!

donnay
08-12-2012, 07:47 AM
http://www.apricotpower.com/store/?id=1

http://www.apricotpower.com/img/apricots_halflb_sm.png




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKhzbcpI_ro



ETA The Politics

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctd-QF982mA&feature=related






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lASAVQjQEgQ&feature=related



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=baX8KDTvFt8

angelatc
08-12-2012, 09:05 AM
Do what you want, but I find it amusing that the same people that insist eating seafood will give you mercury poisoning despite there's absolutely no evidence of that ever happening to anybody anywhere are perfectly fine with exploring the curative possibilities of ingesting cyanide.

Yet if big pharma was using cyanide as in ingredient in a drug, we'd undoubtedly see pages and pages of information related to cyanide toxicity.

RonRules
08-12-2012, 09:10 AM
Here: The perfect cancer cure I've been waiting for you guys:

Miraculous Cancer-Healing Punch


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPrLn8Ms72k&feature=player_embedded

Todd Bentley Violence Collection Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97WA46li9s8&feature=related
Some things just HAVE to be ridiculed.

RonRules
08-12-2012, 09:17 AM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/05/todd-bentley-banned-from-uk_n_1744107.html

In one interview, Bentley claims that the "Holy Spirit" told him to kick an ill elderly woman in the face with7 his biker boot.

"Just as my boot made contact with her nose," the 36-year old said, "she fell under the power of God."

In another video segment, the preacher claims he cured a man of both cancer and a broken sternum by socking him in the chest.

Dr.3D
08-12-2012, 09:25 AM
Do what you want, but I find it amusing that the same people that insist eating seafood will give you mercury poisoning despite there's absolutely no evidence of that ever happening to anybody anywhere are perfectly fine with exploring the curative possibilities of ingesting cyanide.

Yet if big pharma was using cyanide as in ingredient in a drug, we'd undoubtedly see pages and pages of information related to cyanide toxicity.

Hang on now.... what about the pharmaceutical use of Warfarin? People are prescribed Warfarin as an anticoagulant. Of course we all know, Warfarin is normally thought of as rat poison.

It's about how much is used and why it is used as to the outcome. Use too much and you will die. That's the same with most drugs.

MelissaWV
08-12-2012, 09:27 AM
Hang on now.... what about the pharmaceutical use of Warfarin? People are prescribed Warfarin as an anticoagulant. Of course we all know, Warfarin is normally thought of as rat poison.

It's about how much is used and why it is used as to the outcome. Use too much and you will die. That's the same with most drugs.

I think her point is that the forums are a bit inconsistent on this. We've seen threads latching on to traces of substances in things the FDA or EPA or whatever deem safe, as proof they are trying to kill us. We also see threads where there's more than a trace of something harmful, but it's supposedly going to cure something, without much proof to back it up.

donnay
08-12-2012, 09:28 AM
Here: The perfect cancer cure I've been waiting for you guys:

Miraculous Cancer-Healing Punch


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPrLn8Ms72k&feature=player_embedded


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LH7vuMr0LBE&feature=player_embedded

Some things just HAVE to be ridiculed.



You make me laugh. You try so hard to distract and derail a thread :rolleyes: You have proved nothing--but go on, commence in your idiocy, your true colors shine!


If you watched any of the videos, I provided above, you will see that G. Edward Griffin talks about people like you. I have appreciated all of what G. Edward Griffin has exposed. His track record is great. He is not trying to sell snake oil, he is trying to enlighten people with many years of research that he, his wife and a doctor friend have proven will kill cancer-- dead in it's tracks.

I post this information to help enlighten people to the criminality of the organized medical establishment and their strong-hold on any alternative methods that have proven successful.

Origanalist
08-12-2012, 09:29 AM
Here: The perfect cancer cure I've been waiting for you guys:

Miraculous Cancer-Healing Punch


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPrLn8Ms72k&feature=player_embedded


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LH7vuMr0LBE&feature=player_embedded


Some things just HAVE to be ridiculed.

Equating this


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cPrLn8Ms72k

With this, is what should be ridiculed.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=lASAVQjQEgQ

Why don't you prove him wrong instead of using infantile ad-hominen attacks?

Dr.3D
08-12-2012, 09:36 AM
I think her point is that the forums are a bit inconsistent on this. We've seen threads latching on to traces of substances in things the FDA or EPA or whatever deem safe, as proof they are trying to kill us. We also see threads where there's more than a trace of something harmful, but it's supposedly going to cure something, without much proof to back it up.
I see what you are saying and understand that. I guess I was premature with my comment.

donnay
08-12-2012, 09:42 AM
Do what you want, but I find it amusing that the same people that insist eating seafood will give you mercury poisoning despite there's absolutely no evidence of that ever happening to anybody anywhere are perfectly fine with exploring the curative possibilities of ingesting cyanide.

Yet if big pharma was using cyanide as in ingredient in a drug, we'd undoubtedly see pages and pages of information related to cyanide toxicity.

How about the fact that Big Pharma uses rat poisoning in their blood thinners given to humans?

http://www.setma.com/pdfFiles/The%20Story%20of%20Coumadin.pdf


How about allowing Sodium Fluoride to be used in drinking water? Another rat poisoning--a toxic waste?

Even the AMA had to jump on the mercury bandwagon since much of the alternative community have been screaming it for years about mercury in fish.

http://www.ama-assn.org/resources/doc/wpc/wpccompendfinal.pdf


H-150.947 Mercury and Fish Consumption: Medical and Public Health Issues
AMA policy is that: (1) Women who might become pregnant, are pregnant, or who are nursing
should follow federal, state, and local advisories on fish consumption. Because these advisories
may differ, the most protective advisory should be followed. (2) Physicians should (a) assist in
educating patients about the relative mercury content of fish and shellfish products; (b) make
patients aware of the advice contained in both national and regional consumer fish consumption
advisories; and (c) have sample materials available, or direct patients to where they can access
information on national and regional fish consumption advisories. (3) Testing of the mercury
content of fish should be continued by appropriate agencies; results should be publicly
accessible and reported in a consumer-friendly format. (4) Given the limitations of national
consumer fish consumption advisories, the Food and Drug Administration should consider the
advisability of requiring that fish consumption advisories and results related to mercury testing
be posted where fish, including canned tuna, are sold. (CSA Rep. 13, A-04)



What many people do not understand is, naturally occurring arsenic, copper and other elements are needed in the body, in trace elements too. Taking things like arsenic, for instance, to excess can and will kill people too.

RonRules
08-12-2012, 09:44 AM
Laetrile Spammers
Facing $631,585 Penalty

Stephen Barrett, M.D.

A federal magistrate has ordered Christian Brothers, of Whitestone, New York, and its president Jason Vale, to stop abusing America Online's network and trademark in an attempt to sell products. Court documents indicate that the company had unlawfully obtained mailing lists of the e-mail addresses of AOL members and used AOL's computer networks to send more than 20 million messages -- at times sending hundreds of thousands of messages per hour.

(much like the Alt-Med spame we see here in RPF)

The company's product line includes apricot seeds, amygdalin, and a book and a videotape that promote them. Amygdalin is a cyanide-containing compound found in the seeds of apricots and several other fruits. Also marketed as laetrile or "Vitamin B17," it has been promoted as a cancer remedy for more than 40 years. However, it is neither safe nor effective and is not legal to market or import into in the United States.

Travlyr
08-12-2012, 09:47 AM
Laetrile Spammers
Facing $631,585 Penalty

Stephen Barrett, M.D.

A federal magistrate has ordered Christian Brothers, of Whitestone, New York, and its president Jason Vale, to stop abusing America Online's network and trademark in an attempt to sell products. Court documents indicate that the company had unlawfully obtained mailing lists of the e-mail addresses of AOL members and used AOL's computer networks to send more than 20 million messages -- at times sending hundreds of thousands of messages per hour.

(much like the Alt-Med spame we see here in RPF)

The company's product line includes apricot seeds, amygdalin, and a book and a videotape that promote them. Amygdalin is a cyanide-containing compound found in the seeds of apricots and several other fruits. Also marketed as laetrile or "Vitamin B17," it has been promoted as a cancer remedy for more than 40 years. However, it is neither safe nor effective and is not legal to market or import into in the United States.

Says the Government.

donnay
08-12-2012, 09:50 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1fumAO0t0k&feature=related

Dr.3D
08-12-2012, 09:51 AM
Says the Government.
Yep, they had better not let anybody import or use Lima or Fava beans... they also have some of it in them.

Travlyr
08-12-2012, 09:55 AM
Yep, they had better not let anybody import or use Lima or Fava beans... they also have some of it in them.

Yes, like industrial hemp, lima beans should be illegal to grow or use.

RonRules
08-12-2012, 09:55 AM
Why don't you prove him wrong instead of using infantile ad-hominen attacks?

Should I start with his credentials?
"Griffin was born in Detroit, Michigan, on November 7, 1931, and became a child actor on local radio in 1942. By 1947 he was emceeing at WJR (CBS), and continued as announcer at WUOM and station manager at WWJ-TV (NBC), 1950–1955. He earned his bachelor's degree from the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor in 1953, majoring in speech and communications. Griffin served in the United States Army from 1954 to 1956, reaching the rank of sergeant."

And yes folks, we're talking about the same "medical expert" G. Edward Griffin, cancer doctor extraordinaire!

And yes I do believe that Todd Bentley child molester and granny kicking preacher is no more of a medical expert, cancer doctor than Griffin.

You guys need to wake up around here.

Travlyr
08-12-2012, 09:57 AM
Should I start with his credentials?
"Griffin was born in Detroit, Michigan, on November 7, 1931, and became a child actor on local radio in 1942. By 1947 he was emceeing at WJR (CBS), and continued as announcer at WUOM and station manager at WWJ-TV (NBC), 1950–1955. He earned his bachelor's degree from the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor in 1953, majoring in speech and communications. Griffin served in the United States Army from 1954 to 1956, reaching the rank of sergeant."

And yes folks, we're talking about the same "medical expert" G. Edward Griffin, cancer doctor extraordinaire!

And yes I do believe that Todd Bentley child molester and granny kicking preacher is no more of a medical expert, cancer doctor than Griffin.

You guys need to wake up around here.

LOL. You live in Riverside, CA, right?

tod evans
08-12-2012, 10:00 AM
Lophophora williamsii could very well cure obtuseness in politicians and quite possibly eradicate the desire to wage war.

Yet another 100% natural, socially frowned on by many, sworn to be effective by those who have tried it, plant.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4e/Lophophora_williamsii_ies.jpg

RonRules
08-12-2012, 10:01 AM
Here's some more on the stupidity of arsenic to cure cancer:

Laetrile: the cult of cy1anide Promoting poison for profit

http://www.ajcn.org/content/32/5/1121.long

The whys of cancer quackery
Irving J. Lerner MD

The nation appears to have weathered the laetrile phenomenon. In just having passed through the greatest episode of quackery in our history, it would be appropriate to reflect on the whys of quackery: Why do some promote it? Why do so many use it? Why should the medical profession care? Using the laetrile experience as a model, the author attempts to deal with these fundamental questions, and tries in particular to sort out which factors were unique to laetrile and which factors have always been associated with quack promotions and are likely to continue. When a successful quack promotion is analyzed, a complex interplay of failures on the part of physicians and the public is observed, and the triumphs of the promoters are recognized. Finally, it is necessary to deal with the issue of the responsibility of the individual physician and of the profession in general in coping with an unsound, antiscientific medical therapeutic.

RonRules
08-12-2012, 10:02 AM
LOL. You live in Riverside, CA, right?

What, you want to go there to shoot me?

Dr.3D
08-12-2012, 10:02 AM
Here's some more on the stupidity of arsenic to cure cancer:

Laetrile: the cult of cy1anide Promoting poison for profit

http://www.ajcn.org/content/32/5/1121.long

The whys of cancer quackery
Irving J. Lerner MD

The nation appears to have weathered the laetrile phenomenon. In just having passed through the greatest episode of quackery in our history, it would be appropriate to reflect on the whys of quackery: Why do some promote it? Why do so many use it? Why should the medical profession care? Using the laetrile experience as a model, the author attempts to deal with these fundamental questions, and tries in particular to sort out which factors were unique to laetrile and which factors have always been associated with quack promotions and are likely to continue. When a successful quack promotion is analyzed, a complex interplay of failures on the part of physicians and the public is observed, and the triumphs of the promoters are recognized. Finally, it is necessary to deal with the issue of the responsibility of the individual physician and of the profession in general in coping with an unsound, antiscientific medical therapeutic.
Get your story right.... we are not talking about arsenic. Even the rest of your post contradicts you.

RonRules
08-12-2012, 10:04 AM
The one thing about that Tood Bentley guy is he sure doesn't look and act like a typical Canadian. They probably kicked him out.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/08/05/article-2183860-145C293E000005DC-577_306x423.jpg
Violent: Canadian preacher Todd Bentley with a follower at one of his 'healing' shows in which he kicks people in the face, claiming it will cure them of cancer

RonRules
08-12-2012, 10:06 AM
Get your story right.... we are not talking about arsenic. Even the rest of your post contradicts you.
Read about what's in apricot seeds.

Travlyr
08-12-2012, 10:06 AM
What, you want to go there to shoot me?

No, I am not out to hurt anyone. I just don't put up with lies. Get your facts straight. Riverside, CA is all concrete and asphalt. Of course it is getting warmer. Get out of town for a while and see how people in the countryside live.

Dr.3D
08-12-2012, 10:07 AM
Read about what's in apricot seeds.
Sure as hell isn't arsenic.

RonRules
08-12-2012, 10:10 AM
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/08/05/article-2183860-145C293E000005DC-577_306x423.jpg


Sometimes I so wish a guy like that was a skeptic. He'd have a good 10 year run, making millions, fooling people and then in a huge press conference he would simply say:
https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQkKR1URRBZLnQ1KlBtxI9h46jLzdmqM HmxMMmieP67MWIJPnq-

RonRules
08-12-2012, 10:27 AM
Riverside, CA is all concrete and asphalt.

What are you talking about? There's lots of trees and vegetation in the city of Riverside
http://www.riversideca.gov/trees/

The surroundings pretty much look like this:
http://www.rivcoparks.org/wp-content/custom_images/education/hvnc3.jpg

It's not Aspen, but it's not downtown Detroit either

Travlyr
08-12-2012, 10:29 AM
What are you talking about? There's lots of trees and vegetation in the city of Riverside
http://www.riversideca.gov/trees/

The surroundings pretty much look like this:
http://www.rivcoparks.org/wp-content/custom_images/education/hvnc3.jpg

It's not Aspen, but it's not downtown Detroit either

I've been there multiple times. Pretty brown and gray.

RonRules
08-12-2012, 10:32 AM
When I argue science with (some) people on RPF, I feel like a caveman:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1X1FOZmmVA&feature=youtu.be

Travlyr
08-12-2012, 10:39 AM
When I argue science with (some) people on RPF, I feel like a caveman:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1X1FOZmmVA&feature=youtu.be
LOL... that's pretty funny. I kind of see you that way too. Everything the government tells you is not necessarily true. You should question them sometimes.

RonRules
08-12-2012, 10:51 AM
These guys are really talented. Here more:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk2tnFsO4OU&feature=player_embedded

RonRules
08-12-2012, 11:24 AM
You guys need more of Steven Novella:
Skepticism and healthcare.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSiWK9BwxyU

Topics include Homeopathy, CCSVI, Science Journalism, Researcher Bias, Acupuncture, Healthcare Regulation, Complementary and Alternative Medicine, Confirmation Bias, Placebo, Power Balance, Artificial Sweeteners, Women's Intuition, What's The Harm?

donnay
08-12-2012, 11:25 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxHNTix2DtA&feature=related

angelatc
08-12-2012, 11:28 AM
Sure as hell isn't arsenic.

No, it's cyanide.

Dr.3D
08-12-2012, 11:29 AM
No, it's cyanide.
Exactly! Just can't figure out why RonRules keeps saying arsenic. Guess he doesn't know what he's talking about.

donnay
08-12-2012, 11:30 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7Ah7o8Z5CE&feature=related

angelatc
08-12-2012, 11:33 AM
http://www.cancertreatmentwatch.org/alt/laetrile1.shtml


The "evidence" presented by Laetrile supporters has consisted of testimonials from people who believe Laetrile has cured them of cancer, prolonged their life, or reduced pain. How is it possible to have such testimonials and still no scientific proof that Laetrile is effective? Part of the answer lies in the nature of the disease. Cancer is not a single disease, but a combination of about 100 different clinical entities, each following its own natural and sometimes erratic course. Skin cancer, for example, is different in its development, effects, and treatment than lung cancer. Patients sometimes have remissions—periods when certain symptoms disappear. If they take Laetrile during a remission, it will appear as if Laetrile helped them. In other cases, patients have taken Laetrile while also getting effective forms of treatment and may believe that the Laetrile was at least partially responsible for relief of symptoms.

donnay
08-12-2012, 11:35 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWLrfNJICeM&feature=related

angelatc
08-12-2012, 11:36 AM
Exactly! Just can't figure out why RonRules keeps saying arsenic. Guess he doesn't know what he's talking about.

Heh - Snopes.com says that a lot of people misremember arsenic as being the poison in apricot seeds.

donnay
08-12-2012, 11:40 AM
http://www.cancertreatmentwatch.org/alt/laetrile1.shtml


The Cancer Industry is a booming industry. Do you honestly think they want something as simple and proven as Laetrile to get out? You really have to step out of the box on this one.


Just remember the man that helped expose the Federal Reserve is the same man (G. Edward Griffin) who has been out trying to educate people about the vitamin B-17 deficiency and cancer.

Dr.3D
08-12-2012, 11:42 AM
Heh - Snopes.com says that a lot of people misremember arsenic as being the poison in apricot seeds.
And if they knew what they were talking about, they wouldn't even think about arsenic, (an element) but rather the organic compound known as cyanide. Cyanide is found in many foods and is not a serious problem in the form it is found in those foods.

I remember one TV show (Quincy MD), where two little girls were brought into the hospital with some sort of poisoning. They couldn't figure out what the poison was till they found the little baskets the girls had carved out of two (2) peach pits. They then had the audacity to say, the little girls had eaten the two peach kernels, and that was the poison they had ingested. Of course, two peach kernels wouldn't poison anybody, but that show was so biased and propaganda filled, I'm sure it fooled a lot of people.

RonRules
08-12-2012, 11:45 AM
No, it's cyanide.

Either way, the point is about the toxicity. It's also ALL about the actual levels of the poison:

http://www.cyanidecode.org/cyanide_environmental.php
Cyanide is produced in the human body and exhaled in extremely low concentrations with each breath. It is also produced by over 1,000 plant species including sorghum, bamboo and cassava. Relatively low concentrations of cyanide can be highly toxic to people and wildlife.

Cyanide is acutely toxic to humans. Liquid or gaseous hydrogen cyanide and alkali salts of cyanide can enter the body through inhalation, ingestion or absorption through the eyes and skin.


Science is complicated. Leave it to the experts.

angelatc
08-12-2012, 11:47 AM
The Cancer Industry is a booming industry. Do you honestly think they want something as simple and proven as Laetrile to get out? You really have to step out of the box on this one.




I think that it's impossible to convince a conspiracy theorist of anything. It's not illegal in Mexico, and yet Mexicans still die of cancer. Go figure.

angelatc
08-12-2012, 11:51 AM
Cyanide is found in many foods and is not a serious problem in the form it is found in those foods. Are you seriously implying that the type of cyanide found in apricot pits isn't toxic?


I remember one TV show (Quincy MD), where two little girls were brought into the hospital with some sort of poisoning. They couldn't figure out what the poison was till they found the little baskets the girls had carved out of two (2) peach pits. They then had the audacity to say, the little girls had eaten the two peach kernels, and that was the poison they had ingested. Of course, two peach kernels wouldn't poison anybody, but that show was so biased and propaganda filled, I'm sure it fooled a lot of people.

People who get their scientific information from prime-time entertainment deserve to be fooled. As do those who discard science when it doesn't agree with their conspiracy theories.

RonRules
08-12-2012, 12:07 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxHNTix2DtA&feature=related

Just skip to 0:33 to answer the above video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSiWK9BwxyU

We're having video arguments!

jbuttell
08-12-2012, 12:16 PM
I think that it's impossible to convince a conspiracy theorist of anything. It's not illegal in Mexico, and yet Mexicans still die of cancer. Go figure.

Apricots aren't illegal in this country either, yet people still die of cancer. Go Figure.

RonRules
08-12-2012, 12:18 PM
I am horrified with these results:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=cancer+cures

Dr.3D
08-12-2012, 12:24 PM
Are you seriously implying that the type of cyanide found in apricot pits isn't toxic?

People who get their scientific information from prime-time entertainment deserve to be fooled. As do those who discard science when it doesn't agree with their conspiracy theories.
No, it's toxic if you ingest enough of it. So is peppermint oil if you ingest enough of it.
How many apricot kernels would the average person have to ingest to prove fatal?

angelatc
08-12-2012, 12:27 PM
Apricots aren't illegal in this country either, yet people still die of cancer. Go Figure.

We don't eat the seeds, nor do we have clinics that make millions of dollars using them to treat desperate people with cancer.

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/laetrile.html



(http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/laetrile.html)
Joseph Hofbauer was a 9-year-old with Hodgkin's disease. Unlike Chad Green's parents, Joseph's parents never allowed him to receive appropriate treatment but insisted that he receive Laetrile and "metabolic therapy." When New York State authorities attempted to place him in protective custody, his parents filed suit and convinced family court judge Loren Brown to let the parents make the treatment decision. Brown stated that "This court also finds that metabolic therapy has a place in our society, and hopefully, its proponents are on the first rung of a ladder that will rid us of all forms of cancer." The parents rejected standard treatment, and Joseph died of his disease two years later. Acute lymphocytic leukemia and Hodgkin's disease both have a 95% 5-year survival rate with appropriate chemotherapy.


Chad Green, who developed acute lymphocytic leukemia at age 2. Although he was rapidly brought into remission with chemotherapy, his parents started him on "metabolic therapy" administered by a Manner Metabolic Physician. When Chad developed signs of cyanide toxicity, Massachusetts authorities had him declared a ward of the court for treatment purposes only. His parents then brought suit to reinstitute "metabolic therapy." When the court ruled against them, they fled with Chad to Mexico, where he was treated by Dr. Contreras. Several months later Chad died in a manner suggestive of cyanide poisoning. Dr. Contreras stated that the boy had died of leukemia, but was a good example of the effectiveness of Laetrile because he had died a pleasant death!


(Actor)Steve McQueen attracted considerable attention when he was treated with Laetrile at another Mexican clinic under the supervision of William D. Kelley, a dentist who had been delicensed by the State of Texas after several brushes with state and federal law enforcement authorities. Although McQueen gave a glowing report when he began his treatment, he died shortly afterward.

angelatc
08-12-2012, 12:34 PM
No, it's toxic if you ingest enough of it. So is peppermint oil if you ingest enough of it.
How many apricot kernels would the average person have to ingest to prove fatal?

In 1993, the New York State Department of Agriculture and Markets tested the cyanide content of two 220 gram (8oz) packages of apricot kernels that were imported from Pakistan and were being sold in health-food stores as a snack. The results showed that each package, if consumed entirely, contained at least double the minimum lethal dosage of cyanide for an adult human. (http://www.nytimes.com/1993/03/26/nyregion/imported-bitter-apricot-pits-recalled-as-cyanide-hazard.html)

So - 4 oz?

Danke
08-12-2012, 12:43 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGjC4HReFL0&list=UUlYmLw7hrzy_EpM0I3ibcTw&index=0&feature=plcp

Danke
08-12-2012, 12:45 PM
http://www.burzynskiclinic.com/

angelatc
08-12-2012, 12:49 PM
Here's some more on the stupidity of arsenic to cure cancer:

Laetrile: the cult of cy1anide Promoting poison for profit.

Yes, that's the disconnect. The people spreading this poison portray big pharma as nothing more than a profit-making machine, while conveniently ignoring the fact that there's huge money in alternative treatments, too.

Dr.3D
08-12-2012, 12:50 PM
In 1993, the New York State Department of Agriculture and Markets tested the cyanide content of two 220 gram (8oz) packages of apricot kernels that were imported from Pakistan and were being sold in health-food stores as a snack. The results showed that each package, if consumed entirely, contained at least double the minimum lethal dosage of cyanide for an adult human. (http://www.nytimes.com/1993/03/26/nyregion/imported-bitter-apricot-pits-recalled-as-cyanide-hazard.html)

So - 4 oz?
And from what I've read, people don't usually eat more than they would the fruit that surrounded those kernels.
Each kernel weighs around 0.61g so that means they would have to eat around 186 kernels to have eaten 4 oz. I don't know many people who would eat 186 apricots in one sitting.

From what I understand, there have been very few cases of cyanide poisoning from eating apricot kernels. Those things are not very tasty and I don't think I would enjoy eating even 20 of them. Anyway, I've been eating them for more than 20 years and I'm still here to talk about it. I've eaten many pounds of them over that amount of time.

angelatc
08-12-2012, 12:52 PM
http://www.burzynskiclinic.com/


Gets SPA Clearance from the FDA to Initiate Pivotal Phase III Trial of Combination

FDA? Trials? He's obviously part of the conspiracy. I'll bet he charges money for his services, too. That bastard.

RonRules
08-12-2012, 01:03 PM
http://www.burzynskiclinic.com/

I think I've adequately covered Burzy in the last lesson.

Here look over there! (as I sneak in and steal you red stapler)

donnay
08-12-2012, 01:07 PM
I think that it's impossible to convince a conspiracy theorist of anything. It's not illegal in Mexico, and yet Mexicans still die of cancer. Go figure.


Chemotherapy is a toxic poison but the medical community have no problem pumping that into you. Go figure.

RonRules
08-12-2012, 01:08 PM
The DOSE makes the poison:

Start at 1:05

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSiWK9BwxyU

Look at all the time I'm saving you wasting your life learning useless science.

RonRules
08-12-2012, 01:08 PM
Chemotherapy is a toxic poison but the medical community have no problem pumping that into you. Go figure.

Because it saves lives, millions of lives.

Apricot pits don't. That's why.

RonRules
08-12-2012, 01:21 PM
Anyway, I've been eating them for more than 20 years and I'm still here to talk about it. I've eaten many pounds of them over that amount of time.

I've been eating pickled herring for more than 20 years and I'm still here to talk about it. I've eaten many pounds of it over that amount of time.

https://encrypted-tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSvvzeJe9qry6diSkmXrH9g7ValmWAJM snr3eOkgVZ-M836WwvrIg

Do you now see how silly your argument is?

donnay
08-12-2012, 01:25 PM
Because it saves lives, millions of lives.

Apricot pits don't. That's why.

Really? You know this?

Just a little tid-bit of information-- people who get chemotherapy do not die of cancer--they mainly die of Cachexia. Cachexia is a wasting disease. What happens to most people is the Chemo makes them so sick they lose their appetite and don't eat. Lack of the proper nutrition causes malnutrition thus not giving the body the proper mechanisms to battle or to fight any disease. It's basic common sense, but I wouldn't expect you to understand something so basic.

It's a fact radiation causes cancer, yet they give people with cancer radiation. :rolleyes:

Dr.3D
08-12-2012, 01:33 PM
I've been eating pickled herring for more than 20 years and I'm still here to talk about it. I've eaten many pounds of it over that amount of time.

https://encrypted-tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSvvzeJe9qry6diSkmXrH9g7ValmWAJM snr3eOkgVZ-M836WwvrIg

Do you now see how silly your argument is?
No, I'm not the one claiming your pickled herring is toxic. Tell me the lethal dose of pickled herring and I might get more interested.

Travlyr
08-12-2012, 01:46 PM
The DOSE makes the poison:

Start at 1:05

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSiWK9BwxyU

Look at all the time I'm saving you wasting your life learning useless science.

That is a quite unimpressive group of bullshitters. So according to the "Skeptics" only alternative medicine is bad and conventional medicine is all good. They had many examples of people dying from lack of treatment, but not one example of people dying at the hands of conventional medicine. Wow. I'll be danged.

See, it is what they don't say that concerns me. I'm a better 'skeptic' than that.

Dr.3D
08-12-2012, 01:50 PM
That is a quite unimpressive group of bullshitters. So according to the "Skeptics" only alternative medicine is bad and conventional medicine is all good. They had many examples of people dying from lack of treatment, but not one example of people dying at the hands of conventional medicine. Wow. I'll be danged.

See, it is what they don't say that concerns me. I'm a better 'skeptic' than that.
Besides that, we've been talking about dose all along. Seems it takes more than 20 apricot kernels to cause any kind of serious harm.

As for pickled herring... the jury is still out on that one. Somehow I get the idea the only herring here is a big fat red one offered by all the straw-man arguments being presented against apricot kernels.

RonRules
08-12-2012, 01:59 PM
Here's the only explanation your need about Homeopathy:

Starts at around 1:32

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSiWK9BwxyU

RonRules
08-12-2012, 02:01 PM
bullshitters!. So according to the "Skeptics" only alternative medicine is bad and conventional medicine is all good. They had many examples of people dying from lack of treatment, but not one example of people dying at the hands of conventional medicine. Wow. I'll be danged.

Am I dealing with a bunch of backwoods hillbillies here?

Yes Alt Med IS bullshit. And YES Science-Based Medicine works.

Science works bitches!

Travlyr
08-12-2012, 02:04 PM
Besides that, we've been talking about dose all along. Seems it takes more than 20 apricot kernels to cause any kind of serious harm.

As for pickled herring... the jury is still out on that one. Somehow I get the idea the only herring here is a big fat red one offered by all the straw-man arguments being presented against apricot kernels.

LOL. Yeah. And @ 1:05 he claims that arsenic in the apple seeds are toxic.

Whoops.
The good news: apple seeds do not contain arsenic. The bad news: apple seeds DO contain cyanide. As for processing the apples, what kind of processing are you interested in? Grinding apples and pressing them for cider doesn't release enough cyanide to be a problem; neither does cooking apples and straining them to make a sauce. About the only way you can actually ruin into a problem with the toxicity of apple seeds is if you save the seeds from about a bushel of apples and eat them all at once.

Richard E. Barrans Jr., Ph.D.
Assistant Director
PG Research Foundation, Darien, Illinois

A bushel of apple seeds is a pretty high dose.

Travlyr
08-12-2012, 02:14 PM
Am I dealing with a bunch of backwoods hillbillies here?

Yes Alt Med IS bullshit. And YES Science-Based Medicine works.

Science works bitches!

I'm not a hillbilly, but I've seen a lot of people suffer at the hands of 'conventional' medicine. For them to spend 2.25 hours condemning the other side and not even admit any failure by the 'conventional' medicine is disingenuous.

Science works as long as it is applied. Presenting only one side of the argument is junk science.

I'm just more 'skeptic' than you. I've heard the liars for far too long.

And how toxic is that pickled herring you eat anyway?

heavenlyboy34
08-12-2012, 02:22 PM
Am I dealing with a bunch of backwoods hillbillies here?

Yes Alt Med IS bullshit. And YES Science-Based Medicine works.

Science works bitches!
It fails sometimes, too. Like, epic fail. I was once given a dose of Theovalin for asthma and went into respiratory arrest. :eek:

farreri
08-12-2012, 02:22 PM
Eat an alkaline mineral-rich diet and you shouldn't ever get cancer.

heavenlyboy34
08-12-2012, 02:25 PM
Eat an alkaline mineral-rich diet and you shouldn't ever get cancer. True. ph paper is handy to have around. :)

RonRules
08-12-2012, 02:26 PM
Eat an alkaline mineral-rich diet and you shouldn't ever get cancer.

That's covered at 1:45

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSiWK9BwxyU

farreri
08-12-2012, 02:40 PM
That's covered at 1:45

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSiWK9BwxyU
In the beginning at about 2:20 where the moron takes a whole vial of homeopathic remedy sleep aid and wonders why it doesn't make him fall asleep, tell him that drinking water with your homeopathic remedy will antidote it. If these "science" morons are trying to prove stuff, they should first be versed in how the proper procedures are for taking it. What a moron that guy is.

As to your rebuttal at 1:45, the idiot guy even said that the "scientific" treatment was only around 50% or more. What if she did that and still died 3 years later. Would you be saying clinical cancer treatments don't work? No you wouldn't, wouldn't you, moron.

And if you read what I said, I said you shouldn't get cancer if you eat an alkaline mineral-rich diet before you get cancer. Learn how to read.

Go stick with your "science based" medicine that kills more people a year by far than all alternative treatments combined. Idiot.

RonRules
08-12-2012, 02:57 PM
tell him that drinking water with your homeopathic remedy will antidote it.

Based on the fundamental tenant of homeopathy, the more dilute a substance is, the stronger it is. So in fact it, based on homeopathy nonsense, it should make the mixture STRONGER.

A quicker reply to your antidote argument:

https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSsNUCexgS05Phi-XwQFUoVZRPbaC5XJo_UuAsARXEjOp-ZY6d2ww

RonRules
08-12-2012, 02:59 PM
the idiot guy even said that the "scientific" treatment was only around 50% or more.

The standard success criteria (survival rate) for cancer treatment is 50% @ 5 years.

NO Alt Med therapy can match this modest criteria.

MelissaWV
08-12-2012, 03:00 PM
Water is an antidote for sleep aides?

tttppp
08-12-2012, 03:10 PM
The standard success criteria (survival rate) for cancer treatment is 50% @ 5 years.

NO Alt Med therapy can match this modest criteria.

Chinese traditional medicine can beat that provided you don't wait until the last minute to get treated.

tttppp
08-12-2012, 03:11 PM
The standard success criteria (survival rate) for cancer treatment is 50% @ 5 years.

NO Alt Med therapy can match this modest criteria.

Chinese traditional medicine can beat that provided you don't wait until the last minute to get treated.

RonRules
08-12-2012, 03:12 PM
Water is an antidote for sleep aides?

Yep, according to farerri.

Maybe his Ferrari runs with water too.

RonRules
08-12-2012, 03:13 PM
Chinese traditional medicine can beat that provided you don't wait until the last minute to get treated.

NO. The Chinese are all enthralled with western medicine. It's mostly the dumb Americans that still believe this stuff.

kill the banks
08-12-2012, 03:18 PM
thx for that site donnay ... I just popped in an order ... strong believer in maintaining ph levels in cells ... I always give my body a rest from all supplements maintaining healthy diet as well along the way

tttppp
08-12-2012, 03:21 PM
NO. The Chinese are all enthralled with western medicine. It's mostly the dumb Americans that still believe this stuff.

That's not even an argument. Many Chinese use western medicine for the same reason americans do...they are brainwashed into believing everything american is the best. In some cases that is true, but not when it comes to medicine or food.

RonRules
08-12-2012, 03:22 PM
strong believer in maintaining ph levels in cells

Yeah, me too!

Except that I don't have to buy supplements, vitamins and $11/ounce water to set it right.

tttppp
08-12-2012, 03:22 PM
NO. The Chinese are all enthralled with western medicine. It's mostly the dumb Americans that still believe this stuff.

That's not even an argument. Many Chinese use western medicine for the same reason americans do...they are brainwashed into believing everything american is the best. In some cases that is true, but not when it comes to medicine or food.

RonRules
08-12-2012, 03:35 PM
Since there's so much nonsense in this thread, I'll post this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_fCHJDROP8

Danke
08-12-2012, 04:02 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ijwpv6x2R6U&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcsHYl0QBkA&feature=related

r3volution
08-12-2012, 04:04 PM
Am I dealing with a bunch of backwoods hillbillies here?

Yes Alt Med IS bullshit. And YES Science-Based Medicine works.

Science works bitches!

just tossing this out there for anyone here that would take donnay's advice on anything medical ,


Kevin's books are very good. Natural Cures: they don't want you to know was the book that woke me up to all the lies and disinformation out there about nutrition and natural cures. Government tried to shut him up and he fought back. Especially when the FDA is in the pocket of Big pHARMa. Since it was government that was trying to gag him, that made me that much more curious as to what Trudeau had to say.


that was in response to this video ,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=SWPxLzlyOTU

just saying that these are the type of people she gets her medical advice from and defends ,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YN5ihrECJms

Travlyr
08-12-2012, 05:03 PM
just tossing this out there for anyone here that would take donnay's advice on anything medical ,



that was in response to this video ,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=SWPxLzlyOTU

just saying that these are the type of people she gets her medical advice from and defends ,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YN5ihrECJms

I am always 'skeptical' about posters who only quote part of what another says. Why did you do that r3volution?

Here is donnay's full quote
Truth? You must wade through the lies and the disinformation, first, to get to the truth. Again, you take snippets of an interview, which have been edited to make your points look like truth. :rolleyes:

Kevin's books are very good. Natural Cures: they don't want you to know was the book that woke me up to all the lies and disinformation out there about nutrition and natural cures. Government tried to shut him up and he fought back. Especially when the FDA is in the pocket of Big pHARMa. Since it was government that was trying to gag him, that made me that much more curious as to what Trudeau had to say.

In his book he points out; getting away from aspartame, MSG and staying away from soy products-- long before any other reports broke about the dangers of consuming these products.

He does warn in his book about the government trying very hard to regulate vitamins. He has warned in his book about how the government will not allow him to make certain claims of healing with some of the tried and true ancient Chinese herbs. Which led me to Codex Alimentarius scam.

When using discernment you have to do a lot of the research yourself. It's clear to me you haven't done much of it. But, I digress.

farreri
08-12-2012, 05:11 PM
Based on the fundamental tenant of homeopathy, the more dilute a substance is, the stronger it is. So in fact it, based on homeopathy nonsense, it should make the mixture STRONGER.
You think strengthening the potency of homeopathy is done by drinking water after swallowing some homeopathic pills?!? :eek:

Man, talk about...

https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSsNUCexgS05Phi-XwQFUoVZRPbaC5XJo_UuAsARXEjOp-ZY6d2ww

Please don't comment about things you're ignorant about. It just makes you look like a fool.

farreri
08-12-2012, 05:13 PM
Water is an antidote for sleep aides?
<facepalm>

farreri
08-12-2012, 05:17 PM
Yes Alt Med IS bullshit.
That's one of the most idiotic statements I ever seen posted here on RPF.


And YES Science-Based Medicine works.
If is works so great, how come most diseases are on the rise, people are getting sicker and sicker, and the number of prescriptions people are on keeps rising? Sounds like an epic failure to me.

r3volution
08-12-2012, 06:02 PM
I am always 'skeptical' about posters who only quote part of what another says. Why did you do that r3volution? because that is the only part that is relevant to what is being discussed in this thread . you act as if i altered what she said or left out the link in the quote to where she said it . I am always 'skeptical' about posters who choose to speak for others , im sure donnay's keyboard still works .

RonRules
08-12-2012, 06:08 PM
Please don't comment about things you're ignorant about.

I am a world expert on homeopathy. NOBODY knows more than I do about it.

That's simply because homeopathy is 100% nonsense. Not knowing about it or being an "expert" makes no difference.

MelissaWV
08-12-2012, 06:10 PM
<facepalm>

If it was so absurd, then why did you say just that? I had to grit my teeth and type "antidote" regardless of how stupid a term it is to use in this case, because that's what was posted.


tell him that drinking water with your homeopathic remedy will antidote it.

"An antidote is a substance which can counteract a form of poisoning."

Using the term "antidote" strongly implies the homeopathic remedy in question is a poison to begin with. Thankfully, there's a (verb form, no less) antidote for that.

RonRules
08-12-2012, 06:11 PM
If is works so great, how come most diseases are on the rise, people are getting sicker and sicker, and the number of prescriptions people are on keeps rising? Sounds like an epic failure to me.

That's not true at all. We've doubled the life expectancy during the last 100 years. The last 50 have been fantastic.

Here read this:
http://www.nejm.org/medical-articles/fifty-years-of-medical-progress?articletype=fifty-years-of-medical-progress&date=past100Years&

MelissaWV
08-12-2012, 06:13 PM
That's not true at all. We've doubled the life expectancy during the last 100 years. The last 50 have been fantastic.

Here read this:
http://www.nejm.org/medical-articles/fifty-years-of-medical-progress?articletype=fifty-years-of-medical-progress&date=past100Years&

Life expectancy has gone up, and most people in the US have modern medicine to thank for living to be much older. The flipside is that there are a lot of chemical issues that have arisen from one corner or another that make the quality of life a bit questionable in some circles. Think of how a lot of folks now live through their 70s and into their 80s. Now think of how many can walk, or remember who they are, on a regular basis. :(

RonRules
08-12-2012, 06:14 PM
I hear that Kevin Trudeau's "miracle" cures didn't do so great with Tammy Baker:

https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSy3CbbWe_GsTNUn90OrH2APJMDdvB4n IRGnmD8MFHfZ4MA_19b9A

RonRules
08-12-2012, 06:16 PM
Now think of how many can walk, or remember who they are, on a regular basis. :(

Most can. 50 years ago, they'd be dead.

r3volution
08-12-2012, 06:18 PM
That's one of the most idiotic statements I ever seen posted here on RPF.


If is works so great, how come most diseases are on the rise, people are getting sicker and sicker, and the number of prescriptions people are on keeps rising? Sounds like an epic failure to me. yes , science & doctors are a conspiracy . keep eating your seeds and you'll be fine . :rolleyes: i would love to drop some of you off in a cancer ward at children's hospital so you can let them all know .

Travlyr
08-12-2012, 06:20 PM
because that is the only part that is relevant to what is being discussed in this thread . you act as if i altered what she said or left out the link in the quote to where she said it . I am always 'skeptical' about posters who choose to speak for others , im sure donnay's keyboard still works .
The entire quote was relevant. I'm sure donnay can speak for herself, but taking people out-of-context is not honest. That is what you did. When the rest of her quote is included, then it is easy for others to see why she is defending someone you claim she should not be defending.

MelissaWV
08-12-2012, 06:20 PM
Most can. 50 years ago, they'd be dead.

I addressed the latter part as well. "Most" is an overstatement, though, and working with the elderly is an eye-opener. These are still the sturdier folks who were born in the 30s I'm dealing with, too. I'm not sure what the videogame generation will be like at that age, with the average diet being what it is. This is the core reason I am so troubled that the two ends of the spectrum are so populated, with little thought to common sense.

Oh I'll be fine; I'll just pop another supplement, follow the latest diet craze, and glare at anyone who thinks differently.
Oh I'll never be fine; I'll just pop another pill, follow the latest medical scare, and glare at anyone who thinks differently.

The really old folks who are still in great shape usually say they just ate well (and they don't mean sprouts and coconut water), moved around a bit (either through work or conscious exercise), and didn't stress. Some smoked, many drank, there were variations in religion and behavior and work habits... but mostly they just lived without all this extraneous nonsense.

I kind of get the impression they would have lived to 100 even a century ago, but would have been the village/town/city wonder at the time.

r3volution
08-12-2012, 06:26 PM
The entire quote was relevant. I'm sure donnay can speak for herself, but taking people out-of-context is not honest. That is what you did. When the rest of her quote is included, then it is easy to see why she is defending someone you claim she should not be defending. did you even watch the vids i posted ? she should not be defending that scum bag con-artist . are you ?

Travlyr
08-12-2012, 06:32 PM
did you even watch the vids i posted ? she should not be defending that scum bag con-artist . are you ?
The videos you posted do not interest me. I never bought into Kevin Trudeau's stuff so it is unimportant to me. However the bolded comments posted by donnay are quite relevant to the discussion at hand and you should not quote people out of context if you want to be taken seriously.

Truth? You must wade through the lies and the disinformation, first, to get to the truth. Again, you take snippets of an interview, which have been edited to make your points look like truth. :rolleyes:

Kevin's books are very good. Natural Cures: they don't want you to know was the book that woke me up to all the lies and disinformation out there about nutrition and natural cures. Government tried to shut him up and he fought back. Especially when the FDA is in the pocket of Big pHARMa. Since it was government that was trying to gag him, that made me that much more curious as to what Trudeau had to say.

In his book he points out; getting away from aspartame, MSG and staying away from soy products-- long before any other reports broke about the dangers of consuming these products.

He does warn in his book about the government trying very hard to regulate vitamins. He has warned in his book about how the government will not allow him to make certain claims of healing with some of the tried and true ancient Chinese herbs. Which led me to Codex Alimentarius scam.

When using discernment you have to do a lot of the research yourself. It's clear to me you haven't done much of it. But, I digress.

Travlyr
08-12-2012, 06:33 PM
did you even watch the vids i posted ? she should not be defending that scum bag con-artist . are you ?

In other words, you are still taking snippets and proposing it as truth. Those of us who do our research notice those things.

r3volution
08-12-2012, 06:45 PM
In other words, you are still taking snippets and proposing it as truth. Those of us who do our research notice those things. its called a quote for a reason , research that .


The videos you posted do not interest me. ugg . for future reference what you think or post does not interest me . ignored .

Travlyr
08-12-2012, 06:47 PM
its called a quote for a reason , research that .

ugg . for future reference what you think or post does not interest me . ignored .
Partial quotes are not quotes in context.

Zippyjuan
08-12-2012, 06:56 PM
Do what you want, but I find it amusing that the same people that insist eating seafood will give you mercury poisoning despite there's absolutely no evidence of that ever happening to anybody anywhere are perfectly fine with exploring the curative possibilities of ingesting cyanide.

Yet if big pharma was using cyanide as in ingredient in a drug, we'd undoubtedly see pages and pages of information related to cyanide toxicity.
I wanted to plus- rep you but the video in the post below was blocking the "Rep" box when I tried to use it for some reason and I could not do it. It seems that the believablity or fear depends on the source- if the government or "big pHARMa" is behind something- it must be evil and if it is from some "alternative" source- no matter how good or nutty it may be- it must be good.

tttppp
08-12-2012, 07:25 PM
I am a world expert on homeopathy. NOBODY knows more than I do about it.

That's simply because homeopathy is 100% nonsense. Not knowing about it or being an "expert" makes no difference.

That's a bullshit statement. You should have taken the advice given and not comment on things you know nothing about. Please explain your history with doctors and alternative medicine. Anyone with adequate experience with western medicine would not be defending it.

donnay
08-12-2012, 08:03 PM
yes , science & doctors are a conspiracy . keep eating your seeds and you'll be fine . :rolleyes: i would love to drop some of you off in a cancer ward at children's hospital so you can let them all know .

Cancer is definitely a booming industry. Many cures have been found, and stricken down by the FDA because they are working in the best interest of Big Pharma. It's time to figure out who your enemy is.

The cost of treatments (not cures) are soaring. By the time people have all their treatments the price is usually in the hundreds of thousands. FoxNews did a report (2008) on the rising cost of cancer treatments (not cures). Here is what some doctors had to say about it:

"The prices can be staggering. Consider: There are two equally effective options to battle metastatic colon cancer, the kind spreading through the body — but one costs $60,000 more than the other, says Dr. Leonard Saltz of Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center.

(...)

"Saltz offers a tougher example: A drug for pancreatic cancer — an especially deadly cancer with few treatment options — can cost $4,000 a month."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,341280,00.html

If something so simple a Laetrile (B-17) could kill cancer cells, for pennies on the inflated FRN what do you think would happen to all these specialists, and specialty hospitals? How about the lack of money Big Pharma would get for all these drugs being issued to people? It would behoove them to tell everyone what quackery it was to believe that apricot kernels could actually kill and cure someone of cancer, now wouldn't it?


Report: Worldwide cancer rates could soar to 75% by 2030
http://www.news10.net/news/national/195214/5/Report-Worldwide-cancer-rates-could-soar-to-75-by-2030


One of the drawbacks of living longer: Rates of cancer set to double within 20 years as population ages
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2152922/One-drawbacks-living-longer-Rates-cancer-set-soar-population-ages.html#ixzz23O0gNUVJ

It couldn't be the GMO's your eating, or the food that is devoid of vitamins and minerals now could it?


Nutrition and Cancer
by Dina Hunter (http://www.articlesbase.com/nutrition-articles/nutrition-and-cancer-855429.html)

Cancer is a faulty immune system disease. If a person does not get enough of the right kinds of nutrition their immune system cannot work properly and cancer and other diseases take over.

Nutrition deficiencies can be caused by poor diet, poor digestion, environmental problems, such as, chemicals and toxins in our water and the air we breathe, or lifestyle factors, such as, smoking, drinking or drugs.

We have only a limited impact on our environment but we can change our eating habits and our lifestyle.

Many people are deficient in one or more B vitamins for several reasons. Our grains are milled to the point where a good portion of the nutrients are lost. We drink a lot of coffee and alcohol which promotes the excretion of B vitamins. In addition, certain medications, such as seizure drugs, birth control pills and other medications deplete our B vitamins.

There is a calcium deficiency of epidemic proportions in this country. Research has shown that only 10% of adults get the minimum amount of calcium in their diet. 70% of teenage boys and 95% of teenage girls get less than the standard minimum required amounts.

Try starving cancer cells by not feeding it with the foods it needs to multiply.

Cancer cells feed on sugar so cut as much as you can from your daily diet. Most artificial sugar substitutes contain aspartame which has been linked to cancer. Try using stevia. It’s a natural herbal sweetener that contains no sugar and no calories, making it very good for people with diabetes.

Cancer cells thrive in mucus caused by milk and milk products. Since milk contains nutrients your body needs, you probably shouldn’t cut it completely out of your diet. Just cut back a little.

Cancer thrives in an acidic environment, such as, a diet high in meat. Meat also contains a lot of livestock additives such as growth hormones and parasites that are especially harmful to people with cancer. Choose chicken or fish for most of your meals, limiting your meat intake to two or three small servings a week.

While cutting back on the bad stuff, add fresh vegetables, herbs and fruit to your diet. Choose herbs that enhance the immune system and ones that work with the lymph system to neutralize toxins and encourage drainage of fluids which flush toxins out of the body. According to the Department of Agriculture, there are over 3000 herbs containing anti-cancer properties.

In his book, The Natural Physician’s healing Therapies, Mark Stengler, ND states that;Turmeric and Curcumin suppresses the cancer causing effects of tobacco smoke and other chemicals. A study of smokers who took a supplement of 1.5 grams of turmeric a day had reduced urinary excretion of mutagens (a substance that causes damage to cell DNA which can lead to cancer formation.)

Here is a list of common herbs and vitamins that help our bodies fight off cancer.

Capsicum found in hot peppers, has stimulating properties that speed the absorption and effectiveness of any herb taken with it. It increases the power of other herbs to ward off disease.

Astragalus
Echinacea
Ginkgo
Green tea
Garlic
Onion
Plantain
Vitamin C
Vitamin E
Vitamin B complex
Calcium
Antioxidants

Try to get as many of these herbs and vitamins in your diet as you can, along with plenty of fruits and vegetables. Given the nutritional deficiency that prevails in this country, it’s a good idea to take a good multivitamin just to be on the safe side. Sort of like an insurance policy.

---------------------

Dina Hunter

Dina Hunter is the author and owner of www.healthyherbalplants.com She is a firm believer in natural healing with fresh natural foods and herbs.She uses herbs for pain, stress and joint care As a cancer survivor she has done a lot of research on herbs to help recover from the effects of chemotherapy and radiation.

farreri
08-12-2012, 08:23 PM
I hear that Kevin Trudeau's "miracle" cures didn't do so great with Tammy Baker:
If I showed you someone who looked this way by choosing the modern medicine route, would you say it didn't do so great for so and so?

r3volution
08-12-2012, 08:27 PM
i am sorry i ever posted here . i encourage anyone who thinks apricot seeds will cure them to take it and avoid doctors . that is all .

r3volution
08-12-2012, 08:27 PM
If I showed you someone who looked this way by choosing the modern medicine route, would you say it didn't do so great for so and so? buy his book and follow it step by step please .

MelissaWV
08-12-2012, 08:28 PM
So is a plantain an herb or vitamin? I can't be sure from that list.

farreri
08-12-2012, 08:28 PM
That's not true at all. We've doubled the life expectancy during the last 100 years. The last 50 have been fantastic.
But we are getting sicker and sicker, having to take more and more meds. Longer life, but worse health? No thank you. Enjoy your pharmaceuticals.

farreri
08-12-2012, 08:29 PM
yes , science & doctors are a conspiracy . keep eating your seeds and you'll be fine . :rolleyes: i would love to drop some of you off in a cancer ward at children's hospital so you can let them all know .
What the hell are you talking about???

farreri
08-12-2012, 08:30 PM
buy his book and follow it step by step please .
I noticed how you totally dodged my question. Shows your character.

Travlyr
08-12-2012, 08:31 PM
What the hell are you talking about???

Best I can tell... he believes whatever his TV tells him.

farreri
08-12-2012, 08:38 PM
Best I can tell... he believes whatever his TV tells him.
I'd like to know from these "skeptics" how did society keep thriving before the era of pharmaceuticals and surgery? According to their logic, the human race should have died off.

Travlyr
08-12-2012, 08:59 PM
I'd like to know from these "skeptics" how did society keep thriving before the era of pharmaceuticals and surgery? According to their logic, the human race should have died off.

Good question. Certainly, scientific medicine has made some advancements for humans. But for them to claim that they are the only credible source for information, while ignoring their faults, is disingenuous. Good nutrition along with education and medication when necessary are all good. If these 'skeptics' would have mentioned hemp just one single time in their 2.25 hour lecture, then that alone would have helped their credibility. But all they did was spend their entire time bullshitting the public with 'stories' about how their opposition fails without even accepting responsibility for their own failures of 'conventional' medicine. Disinformation is not what science is about.

Dr.3D
08-12-2012, 09:09 PM
Good question. Certainly, scientific medicine has made some advancements for humans. But for them to claim that they are the only credible source for information, while ignoring their faults, is disingenuous. Good nutrition along with education and medication when necessary are all good. If these 'skeptics' would have mentioned hemp just one single time in their 2.25 hour lecture, then that alone would have helped their credibility. But all they did was spend their entire time bullshitting the public with 'stories' about how their opposition fails without even accepting responsibility for their own failures of 'conventional' medicine. Disinformation is not what science is about.
Seems that is in the eye of the beholder. The climate change "scientists" seem to believe otherwise. They would lose their funding if they didn't.

Travlyr
08-12-2012, 09:09 PM
i am sorry i ever posted here . i encourage anyone who thinks apricot seeds will cure them to take it and avoid doctors . that is all .

BTW... just what do you think "an apple a day keeps the doctor away means?" Or have you ever heard that?

Travlyr
08-12-2012, 09:51 PM
BTW... just what do you think "an apple a day keeps the doctor away means?" Or have you ever heard that?

r3volution, that is not a rhetorical question. Do you know what that means?

donnay
08-12-2012, 10:42 PM
So is a plantain an herb or vitamin? I can't be sure from that list.

Herb


http://www.allnatural.net/herbpages/plantain.shtml

donnay
08-12-2012, 10:44 PM
Best I can tell... he believes whatever his TV tells him.

Or what government tells him.

kathy88
08-12-2012, 10:45 PM
Ronrules... You know I'm on your team most times. If you can believe that the government is complicit in nationwide vote tampering why is it such a stretch to imagine those same power and money hungry animals wouldn't do the same thing with the medical field?

MelissaWV
08-13-2012, 05:04 AM
Herb


http://www.allnatural.net/herbpages/plantain.shtml

ty never knew there was a plantain other than

http://www.synchronium.com/Haiti_MarChE/Media/Content/plantain/plantain.jpg

it would appear they are different things :)

Learned something new.

donnay
08-13-2012, 08:01 AM
ty never knew there was a plantain other than

http://www.synchronium.com/Haiti_MarChE/Media/Content/plantain/plantain.jpg

it would appear they are different things :)

Learned something new.




http://www.prairielandherbs.com/broadleafplantain1.jpg

Plantain is very high in beta carotene (A) and calcium. It also provides ascorbic acid (C), and vitamin K. Among the more notable chemicals found in plantain are allantion, apigenin, aucubin, baicalein, linoleic acid, oleanolic acid, sorbitol, and tannin. Together these constituents are thought to give plantain mild anti-inflammatory, antimicrobial, antihemorrhagic, and expectorant actions. Acubin has been reported in the Journal Of Toxicology as a powerful anti-toxin.

http://www.prairielandherbs.com/plantain.htm

donnay
08-13-2012, 08:50 AM
did you even watch the vids i posted ? she should not be defending that scum bag con-artist . are you ?


I wasn't defending Kevin Trudeau per se. When someone gave me his book to read, I read it. It was a turning point for me, a point of no return. I began researching his claims and started down a rabbit hole. Regardless of whom Kevin Trudeau is/was is irrelevant to me. What is relevant to me was/is, his claims I research, and by-george, much of it was spot on. That is what is relevant to me.

Government has a way of protecting it's cronies--those protected have done far worse then Kevin Trudeau was found guilty of. I have an inherent distrust of government and when government goes after someone who is helping others, it always piques my curiosity. That is why I read his book, "Natural Cures 'They' Don't Want You To Know About." Most of the cures found are natural and put a dent in Big pHARMa's profits. You have heartburn? A replacement for toxic heartburn medications-- A tablespoon of Raw Organic Apple Cider Vinegar mixed in 4 ounces of purified water will stop it dead in it's tracks. A bottle of Raw Organic Apple Cider Vinegar cost $3.49 (16 Ounces Liquid, $0.11/serving) in the store. It also elevates you Ph. It also lowers uric acid levels in people prone to gout. Nevertheless, there are many uses/benefits for ACV. Not many doctors will tell you about ACV, but will be quick to write you a prescription of NEXIUM ($248 per month).

Source:
http://www.consumerreports.org/health/best-buy-drugs/heartburn_ppi.htm

Dr.3D
08-13-2012, 09:04 AM
I wasn't defending Kevin Trudeau per se. When someone gave me his book to read, I read it. It was a turning point for me, a point of no return. I began researching his claims and started down a rabbit hole. Regardless of whom Kevin Trudeau is/was is irrelevant to me. What is relevant to me was/is, his claims I research, and by-george, much of it was spot on. That is what is relevant to me.

Government has a way of protecting it's cronies--those protected have done far worse then Kevin Trudeau was found guilty of. I have an inherent distrust of government and when government goes after someone who is helping others, it always piques my curiosity. That is why I read his book, "Natural Cures 'They' Don't Want You To Know About." Most of the cures found are natural and put a dent in Big pHARMa's profits. You have heartburn? A replacement for toxic heartburn medications-- A tablespoon of Raw Organic Apple Cider Vinegar mixed in 4 ounces of purified water will stop it dead in it's tracks. A bottle of Raw Organic Apple Cider Vinegar cost $3.49 (16 Ounces Liquid, $0.11/serving) in the store. It also elevates you Ph. It also lowers uric acid levels in people prone to gout. Nevertheless, there are many uses/benefits for ACV. Not many doctors will tell you about ACV, but will be quick to write you a prescription of NEXIUM ($248 per month).

Source:
http://www.consumerreports.org/health/best-buy-drugs/heartburn_ppi.htm
So is that the secret to this "old Amish cure"?
http://www.stopsacidreflux.com/
I would guess the ginger and garlic are there just to confuse?

Eagles' Wings
08-13-2012, 09:06 AM
I wasn't defending Kevin Trudeau per se. When someone gave me his book to read, I read it. It was a turning point for me, a point of no return. I began researching his claims and started down a rabbit hole. Regardless of whom Kevin Trudeau is/was is irrelevant to me. What is relevant to me was/is, his claims I research, and by-george, much of it was spot on. That is what is relevant to me.

Government has a way of protecting it's cronies--those protected have done far worse then Kevin Trudeau was found guilty of. I have an inherent distrust of government and when government goes after someone who is helping others, it always piques my curiosity. That is why I read his book, "Natural Cures 'They' Don't Want You To Know About." Most of the cures found are natural and put a dent in Big pHARMa's profits. You have heartburn? A replacement for toxic heartburn medications-- A tablespoon of Raw Organic Apple Cider Vinegar mixed in 4 ounces of purified water will stop it dead in it's tracks. A bottle of Raw Organic Apple Cider Vinegar cost $3.49 (16 Ounces Liquid, $0.11/serving) in the store. It also elevates you Ph. It also lowers uric acid levels in people prone to gout. Nevertheless, there are many uses/benefits for ACV. Not many doctors will tell you about ACV, but will be quick to write you a prescription of NEXIUM ($248 per month).

Source:
http://www.consumerreports.org/health/best-buy-drugs/heartburn_ppi.htmOh yah, ACV is a must have in the fridge. Bragg's is my all time favorite. Another good old fashioned recipe for heartburn is baking soda (1tsp) and water - just sip until hb subsides.

Eagles' Wings
08-13-2012, 09:09 AM
Oh yah, ACV is a must have in the fridge. Bragg's is my all time favorite. Another good old fashioned recipe for heartburn is baking soda (1tsp) and water - just sip until hb subsides.Of course the goal is to eat well and avoid heartburn - and cancer, MS, crohn's, allergies, etc. - :)

Romulus
08-13-2012, 09:13 AM
I eat apple seeds daily, along with the apple of course..... its not so black and white... yes they are greedy bastards on BOTH sides, but you need a balance of both.. some medicine is good, like most of the natural cures too... its up to you to weed both sides out.

I found this interesting though... most doctors will kill you and don't have a clue what the HELL they are talking about

http://www.jamesaltucher.com/2011/12/how-i-cured-my-constipation/

donnay
08-13-2012, 09:46 AM
So is that the secret to this "old Amish cure"?
http://www.stopsacidreflux.com/
I would guess the ginger and garlic are there just to confuse?

I have never heard of that type of ACV. It sounds good, actually. Ginger/garlic has many great medicinal benefits as well. This ACV definitely seems to pack a wallop, I may have to order some. Thanks!

Dr.3D
08-13-2012, 09:53 AM
I have never heard of that type of ACV. It sounds good, actually. Ginger/garlic has many great medicinal benefits as well. This ACV definitely seems to pack a wallop, I may have to order some. Thanks!
Well, my physician had me on Omiprazole for over a decade. I read about how bad that stuff can be so I ordered a few bottles of this "Stops Acid Reflux" to see if it would work instead. To my surprise, it works very well and I haven't had to use that prescription stuff since.

Now I'm hooked on using SAR whenever I feel the problem is happening and it works as advertised. In less than one minute, the acid reflux is gone. I keep a bottle on my bedside table now. So far I'm still on my first bottle and that's been a few months now. I'm very happy I found it and now wonder if just the ACV would do the trick instead of the SAR. I was wondering if perhaps they added those other two ingredients just to keep people guessing how much of each they added and that it actually doesn't really do as much as the ACV that seems to make up the major part of it.

donnay
08-13-2012, 10:02 AM
I eat apple seeds daily, along with the apple of course..... its not so black and white... yes they are greedy bastards on BOTH sides, but you need a balance of both.. some medicine is good, like most of the natural cures too... its up to you to weed both sides out.

I found this interesting though... most doctors will kill you and don't have a clue what the HELL they are talking about

http://www.jamesaltucher.com/2011/12/how-i-cured-my-constipation/



My dog loves apples. I give him a whole apple and he eats it down seeds and all. He is very healthy too.

As far as our medical system is concern; Emergency based care--excellent. Long term care--the worst. IMHO.

Dr.3D
08-13-2012, 10:03 AM
My dog loves apples. I give him a whole apple and he eats it down seeds and all. He is very healthy too.

As far as our medical system is concern; Emergency based care--excellent. Long term care--the worst. IMHO.

LOL, my dogs always wait for me to decide which one gets the apple core when I'm done eating an apple. I give one of them the core and say, "Apple core! Who's your friend?" :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGNIYEYWxm0

Romulus
08-13-2012, 10:10 AM
You should be eating the core and the seeds!

Dr.3D
08-13-2012, 10:12 AM
You should be eating the core and the seeds!
Yeah, but I eat the apricot kernels instead. :)

donnay
08-13-2012, 10:13 AM
Well, my physician had me on Omiprazole for over a decade. I read about how bad that stuff can be so I ordered a few bottles of this "Stops Acid Reflux" to see if it would work instead. To my surprise, it works very well and I haven't had to use that prescription stuff since.

Now I'm hooked on using SAR whenever I feel the problem is happening and it works as advertised. In less than one minute, the acid reflux is gone. I keep a bottle on my bedside table now. So far I'm still on my first bottle and that's been a few months now. I'm very happy I found it and now wonder if just the ACV would do the trick instead of the SAR. I was wondering if perhaps they added those other two ingredients just to keep people guessing how much of each they added and that it actually doesn't really do as much as the ACV that seems to make up the major part of it.

Well, I know, personally, Raw unfiltered apple cider vinegar stopped my heartburn. However, ginger is great for the digestive system. Ginger by itself stops heartburn too. Garlic has many medicinal qualities too. The main reason is; allicin and diallyl sulphides. It is a natural antibiotic. So the Amish one does pack a wallop in one bottle. :)

Origanalist
08-13-2012, 10:15 AM
Comment just to bookmark for future.

RonRules
08-13-2012, 10:16 AM
Ronrules... You know I'm on your team most times. If you can believe that the government is complicit in nationwide vote tampering why is it such a stretch to imagine those same power and money hungry animals wouldn't do the same thing with the medical field?

As far as vote tampering, I actually don't think it's the government (excluding political parties). I have other suspicions and trying hard to prove it. You should see some action over the next two weeks BTW.

I want less government, just like you do. For example, I think the FDA should not be involved in determining efficacy of medicine. The private market can determine that, maybe not that well, but for Liberty reasons. If people want to buy grass clippings at $30/bottle, then that's their decision as long such grass clippings won't hurt anybody. Mind you I reserve the right to ridicule them.

Having the FDA oversee safety is a reasonable compromise, but private pharmaceutical companies are already careful, in fact very careful because of ethical reasons and the risk of lawsuits. So the FDA could be reduced by 80-90% and we would still have safe medications. And YES medications are safe.

Generally I look for incompetence first and then conspiracies. If somehow a medical product comes out that happens to do more harm than good, then I believe it's usually incompetence or it's because the science is hard. Some effects may only show up 20 years later and you won't see that in a 2 year study. It's certainly not because the tri-lateral commission wants your babies born with a third foot sticking out of their forehead.

The "power and money hungry animals" are the Alt Med industry. There is plenty of research from that NIH that ALL this stuff is nonsense and doesn't work. Why do they keep on selling it?

Big Pharma is FORCED to stop selling medication if the FDA determines it is not effective enough.

Actually, I feel sorry for Big Pharma. They are brilliant people that work hard, take big business risks and are at the total mercy of the FDA.

On the other hand Big Placebo is what you should bitch about. They sell nonsense, like homeopathy and totally ineffective herbs, make millions fooling people, cause pain, suffering and premature deaths.

The least I can do is to ridicule them. But in fact, their ugly lime green websites need to be shut down and they should all be thrown in jail.

The Gold Standard
08-13-2012, 10:16 AM
Enough of this quackery. If our government says apricots are not safe but chemotherapy is, then that is all we need to know. There is a reason they evolved to be our superiors. Go Darwin go!

Dr.3D
08-13-2012, 10:19 AM
Well, I know, personally, Raw unfiltered apple cider vinegar stopped my heartburn. However, ginger is great for the digestive system. Ginger by itself stops heartburn too. Garlic has many medicinal qualities too. The main reason is; allicin and diallyl sulphides. It is a natural antibiotic. So the Amish one does pack a wallop in one bottle. :)
I bought some garlic and ginger root and blended them up separately in the blender with apple cider vinegar, then let them set for two weeks in dark glass bottles. After that, I filtered out the solids and kept the liquid. I was going to mix them a little at a time with apple cider vinegar to see if I could replicate what I was buying from Caleb Treeze and perhaps find the secret of how to make the stuff myself and save some money. So far, I haven't done that much mixing. I guess next time I think of taking the SAR, I'll just try the ACV to see if it works instead. I do however have two nice 16 ounce bottles of strong ginger ACV and garlic ACV on the shelf to play with.

RonRules
08-13-2012, 10:31 AM
I bought some garlic and ginger root and blended them up separately in the blender with apple cider vinegar, then let them set for two weeks in dark glass bottles. After that, I filtered out the solids and kept the liquid. I was going to mix them a little at a time with apple cider vinegar to see if I could replicate what I was buying from Caleb Treeze and perhaps find the secret of how to make the stuff myself and save some money. So far, I haven't done that much mixing. I guess next time I think of taking the SAR, I'll just try the ACV to see if it works instead. I do however have two nice 16 ounce bottles of strong ginger ACV and garlic ACV on the shelf to play with.

Make a couple of gallons of it. Put ice cubes in it and pretend it's ice tea. Drink lots of it, it's hot out there.

Dr.3D
08-13-2012, 10:44 AM
Make a couple of gallons of it. Put ice cubes in it and pretend it's ice tea. Drink lots of it, it's hot out there.
Why don't you go peddle your pills someplace else?

donnay
08-13-2012, 11:36 AM
As far as vote tampering, I actually don't think it's the government (excluding political parties). I have other suspicions and trying hard to prove it. You should see some action over the next two weeks BTW.

I want less government, just like you do. For example, I think the FDA should not be involved in determining efficacy of medicine. The private market can determine that, maybe not that well, but for Liberty reasons. If people want to buy grass clippings at $30/bottle, then that's their decision as long such grass clippings won't hurt anybody. Mind you I reserve the right to ridicule them.

Having the FDA oversee safety is a reasonable compromise, but private pharmaceutical companies are already careful, in fact very careful because of ethical reasons and the risk of lawsuits. So the FDA could be reduced by 80-90% and we would still have safe medications. And YES medications are safe.

Generally I look for incompetence first and then conspiracies. If somehow a medical product comes out that happens to do more harm than good, then I believe it's usually incompetence or it's because the science is hard. Some effects may only show up 20 years later and you won't see that in a 2 year study. It's certainly not because the tri-lateral commission wants your babies born with a third foot sticking out of their forehead.

The "power and money hungry animals" are the Alt Med industry. There is plenty of research from that NIH that ALL this stuff is nonsense and doesn't work. Why do they keep on selling it?

Big Pharma is FORCED to stop selling medication if the FDA determines it is not effective enough.

Actually, I feel sorry for Big Pharma. They are brilliant people that work hard, take big business risks and are at the total mercy of the FDA.

On the other hand Big Placebo is what you should bitch about. They sell nonsense, like homeopathy and totally ineffective herbs, make millions fooling people, cause pain, suffering and premature deaths.

The least I can do is to ridicule them. But in fact, their ugly lime green websites need to be shut down and they should all be thrown in jail.

Big pHARMa is a criminal racket no different than the mafia of yesteryear. Merck was caught red-handed falsifying data on vaccines. They were also caught red-handed allowing SV-40 to stay in their polio vaccines. They were also caught red-handed in falsify and withholding information about Vioxx.

Bayer was caught red-handed giving HIV tainted blood to Canadians.

"An examination of internal Bayer company documents by The New York Times reveals that the company was engaged in unsavory, probably criminal marketing practices. The documents reveal that Bayer continued to sell contaminated blood plasma causing thousands of hemophiliac patients to be infected with AIDS. The company continued to sell the contaminated blood in Asia for over a year when it had already introduced a safer, heated blood plasma version in the US and Europe in February 1984.

The documents examined by the Times provide evidence of unrestrained corrupt practices by a pharmaceutical industry giant. According to The Times, records suggest that the reason for continuing to sell an AIDS infected blood product, was to get rid of inventory and "the company hoped to preserve the profit margin from 'several large fixed-price contracts.'"

http://www.ahrp.org/infomail/0503/22.php

Baxter International was caught red-handed mixing live Avian Flu in 2009 Flu vaccines.

"Baxter, an International pharmaceutical company based in America, has just been caught mixing live Avian Flu virus (H5N1) with common flu virus, in a flu vaccine. Baxter International’s research facility in Orth-Donau Austria was the facility that shipped the contaminated flu vaccine to other facilities in the Czech Republic, Slovenia and Germany. The incident was discovered by a technician in a facility in the Czech Republic, who injected ferrets with the vaccine as a normal test procedure. The ferrets died."

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Still-Think-They-re-Not-Tr-by-Mr-M-090305-202.html

I could go on and on with things Big pHARMa has been caught doing and nothing ever happens to them. People die, Oops. These Companies caught should be tried for crimes against humanity. You feel sorry for these drug pushers? Give me a break--they are so protected by our hijacked government, and the mere thought of them getting away with murder makes me want to puke.

donnay
08-13-2012, 12:21 PM
I bought some garlic and ginger root and blended them up separately in the blender with apple cider vinegar, then let them set for two weeks in dark glass bottles. After that, I filtered out the solids and kept the liquid. I was going to mix them a little at a time with apple cider vinegar to see if I could replicate what I was buying from Caleb Treeze and perhaps find the secret of how to make the stuff myself and save some money. So far, I haven't done that much mixing. I guess next time I think of taking the SAR, I'll just try the ACV to see if it works instead. I do however have two nice 16 ounce bottles of strong ginger ACV and garlic ACV on the shelf to play with.


Looking for a recipe to help you replicate the remedy I found this interesting information:

"An Amish remedy for leg cramps combines garlic, ginger and apple cider vinegar for a mixture that can either be rubbed right onto the aching or cramping muscle, or drank for a nearly instant relief. This product is known simply as Stops Leg Cramps, and you can actually feel the cramp going away as soon as the all natural combination touches your tongue." http://www.the-good-doctor.net/leg-cramps/

-----------------------------


Raw apple cider vinegar, garlic, and juice from the ginger plant are all that go into this natural formula. These 3 ingredients are separately heated at specific temperatures for set amounts of time and then combined in a process known as stacked blending to achieve the effect. One capful from the bottle will stop a cramp and completely eliminate soreness in an average of 60 seconds (yes, 60 seconds). More importantly, you won't have another cramp for a solid 24 hours after taking that same capful of the remedy.

The details behind this Amish formula have been kept a relative secret, but the makers of Caleb Treeze Organic Farm were given the recipe and blending secrets sometime in the 1940s. When they learned that no company had ever made this remedy available to the public a few years back, they jumped straight into action and began mass-producing and distributing all across the country. The product has since found great success in Canada, and is also beginning to be used by various athletes for cramps that occur during sports and other physical activities.

You can get two bottles for about 30 bucks, and that is usually enough to last the average person as long as 6 months. When you make your first purchase, you aren't just ordering something online - you will be taking our satisfaction challenge. If the product doesn't work well for you for any reason, you can simply let us know within 30 days of purchase and we will give you your money back.

Anyone who has ever experienced a muscle cramp of any sort knows that they are very unpleasant. The Stops Leg Cramps bottle is like a miracle formula that you can have by your side at all times. Keeping a bottle on your nightstand and taking a sip at the onset of a cramp will stop it dead in its tracks, but it is much smarter to simply plan ahead and take a dose or two before laying down for bed. You'll be cramp free through the night, and you'll be cramp free every night after that as long as you take advantage of this completely natural remedy for leg cramps.

Leg Cramps at Night

Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/6896665


Another source: http://shellyreviews.com/stops-leg-cramps-organic-formula-to-prevent-all-types-of-muscle-spasms/

Dr.3D
08-13-2012, 12:41 PM
Looking for a recipe to help you replicate the remedy I found this interesting information:

"An Amish remedy for leg cramps combines garlic, ginger and apple cider vinegar for a mixture that can either be rubbed right onto the aching or cramping muscle, or drank for a nearly instant relief. This product is known simply as Stops Leg Cramps, and you can actually feel the cramp going away as soon as the all natural combination touches your tongue." http://www.the-good-doctor.net/leg-cramps/

-----------------------------


Raw apple cider vinegar, garlic, and juice from the ginger plant are all that go into this natural formula. These 3 ingredients are separately heated at specific temperatures for set amounts of time and then combined in a process known as stacked blending to achieve the effect. One capful from the bottle will stop a cramp and completely eliminate soreness in an average of 60 seconds (yes, 60 seconds). More importantly, you won't have another cramp for a solid 24 hours after taking that same capful of the remedy.

The details behind this Amish formula have been kept a relative secret, but the makers of Caleb Treeze Organic Farm were given the recipe and blending secrets sometime in the 1940s. When they learned that no company had ever made this remedy available to the public a few years back, they jumped straight into action and began mass-producing and distributing all across the country. The product has since found great success in Canada, and is also beginning to be used by various athletes for cramps that occur during sports and other physical activities.

You can get two bottles for about 30 bucks, and that is usually enough to last the average person as long as 6 months. When you make your first purchase, you aren't just ordering something online - you will be taking our satisfaction challenge. If the product doesn't work well for you for any reason, you can simply let us know within 30 days of purchase and we will give you your money back.

Anyone who has ever experienced a muscle cramp of any sort knows that they are very unpleasant. The Stops Leg Cramps bottle is like a miracle formula that you can have by your side at all times. Keeping a bottle on your nightstand and taking a sip at the onset of a cramp will stop it dead in its tracks, but it is much smarter to simply plan ahead and take a dose or two before laying down for bed. You'll be cramp free through the night, and you'll be cramp free every night after that as long as you take advantage of this completely natural remedy for leg cramps.

Leg Cramps at Night

Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/6896665


Another source: http://shellyreviews.com/stops-leg-cramps-organic-formula-to-prevent-all-types-of-muscle-spasms/
Thanks, that's made by the same people who make the "Stops Acid Reflux". I wonder what the difference between those two is.

donnay
08-13-2012, 12:49 PM
Thanks, that's made by the same people who make the "Stops Acid Reflux". I wonder what the difference between those two is.

Truthfully, I do not think there is any difference. I know that the combination of the three have many good uses. Until you brought it to my attention, I never heard of the Amish remedy. However, I will have to research a little more, because I honestly do not see any difference.

Dr.3D
08-13-2012, 12:53 PM
Truthfully, I do not think there is any difference. I know that the combination of the three have many good uses. Until you brought it to my attention, I never heard of the Amish remedy. However, I will have to research a little more, because I honestly do not see any difference.
I've scoured the internet and even bought all of the Amish remedy books I found on the internet but to no avail. I did however find a nice little tidbit in one of the books about stopping diarrhea. They claim that eating half a can of Blackberries will usually but an end to it. I guess it has something to do with the iron content of the Blackberries. Also they said a half cup of juice from canned Blackberries works just as well.

donnay
08-13-2012, 12:53 PM
Today's headlines:

Former FDA Reviewer Speaks Out About Intimidation, Retaliation and Marginalizing of Safety

By Martha Rosenberg

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is often accused of serving industry at the expense of consumers. But even FDA defenders are shocked by reports this week of an institutionalized FDA spying program on its own scientists, lawmakers, reporters and academics that included an enemies list of "actors" and collaborators.

The paranoid and retaliatory email monitoring program, which sought to suppress the safety opinions of those hired to give their safety opinions, has provoked swift action from Capitol Hill. "I am writing to express my disappointment and disbelief with the way the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has retaliated against whistleblowers who expressed concern to Members of Congress and the Office of Special Counsel (OSC) regarding safety concerns about medical products," wrote Sen. Charles E. Grassley (R-Iowa), ranking member on the Judiciary Committee, to FDA Commissioner Margaret A. Hamburg, the day after the breadth of the surveillance was reported in The New York Times.

Government agencies cannot discourage whistleblowing and reporting of wrongdoing by monitoring employees, echoed a White House memo sent to all government agencies about the FDA spy program.

"Devicegate" dates back at least to January 2009 when scientists in the FDA's Center for Devices and Radiological Health wrote President Obama that top FDA managers "committed the most outrageous misconduct by ordering, coercing and intimidating FDA physicians and scientists to recommend approval, and then retaliating when the physicians and scientists refused to go along." Review procedures at the agency (which approves stents, breast implants, MRIs, and other devices and machinery) were so faulty that unsafe devices - including those that emit excessive radiation - were approved, charged the scientists, provoking an OSC investigation.

For reporting the safety risks, the scientists became targets of the now-disclosed spy program and some lost their jobs. "It has been brought to our attention that FDA management may have just recently ordered the FDA Office of Criminal Investigations (OCI) to investigate us, rather than the managers who have engaged in wrongdoing!" wrote the FDA scientists in a follow-up letter a few weeks later to President Obama. "It is an outrage that our own Agency would step up the retaliation to such a level because we have reported their wrongdoing to the United States Congress."

During the same time period, Ronald Kavanagh B.S.Pharm., Pharm.D, Ph.D., an FDA drug reviewer in the Center for Drug Evaluation and Research, encountered similar intimidation and suppression of safety research. Truthout met with Dr. Kavanagh on several occasions to learn about his FDA whistleblowing experiences.

Continued... (http://truth-out.org/news/item/10524-former-fda-reviewer-speaks-out-about-intimidation-retaliation-and-marginalizing-of-safety)

donnay
08-13-2012, 01:00 PM
I've scoured the internet and even bought all of the Amish remedy books I found on the internet but to no avail. I did however find a nice little tidbit in one of the books about stopping diarrhea. They claim that eating half a can of Blackberries will usually but an end to it. I guess it has something to do with the iron content of the Blackberries. Also they said a half cup of juice from canned Blackberries works just as well.

I have Mennonites in my community, I will see if they may know the difference. I am not getting any information either.

As far as blackberries, they have many benefits too:

1. Blackberries are one of the top ten foods containing antioxidants.
2. Blackberries are packed with polyphenols helping to prevent cancer and heart disease.
3. Blackberries are filled with anthocyanins (antioxidants which give blackberries their deep purple color) which help in memory retention and the risk of hypertension.
4. Blackberries are said to strengthen blood vessels, help fight heart disease and help improve eyesight.
5. The high tannin content of blackberries help tighten tissue, relieve intestinal inflammation, and help reduce hemorrhoids and stomach disorders.
6. Ohio State University found that blackberries may protect against esophageal cancer, a cancer caused by gastric reflux disease.
7. Blackberries have shown to protect against other types of cancers. They contain phytoestrogens (plant estrogens), a compound believed to play a vital role in preventing breast and cervical cancer.
8. Blackberries are high in Vitamin C, Vitamin A, Vitamin E, Vitamin K, Manganese and fiber.
9. The high fiber content of blackberries help reduce risk of intestinal disease and the risk of developing diabetes.
10. Blackberries are a healthy food choice that kids and adults love. They are a great way to refuel after a hard workout and help aid in fighting obesity. See a recipe for Blackberry-Blueberry Cobbler from my site last year.

http://www.ingredientsinc.net/2011/07/10-health-benefits-of-blackberries/

donnay
08-13-2012, 01:10 PM
Pfizer forced to pay $60 million court settlement after bribing foreign officials to dispense more drugs

(NaturalNews) Drug giant Pfizer has agreed to pay a $60 million fine to settle charges filed against the company alleging illegal bribery. According to CNN Money, both Pfizer and Wyeth, the latter of which has since merged with Pfizer, paid off foreign officials in Europe and Asia to speed up drug approvals, and give preference to Pfizer drugs in their countries' public health programs, which in turn generated billions of dollars for the world's largest drug company.

According to the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC), which will receive a $45 million cut of the settlement, Pfizer was in direct violation of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (FCPA) when it illegally boosted its profits by bribing doctors and public health officials in Bulgaria, China, Croatia, the Czech Republic, Italy, Kazakhstan, Russia, and Serbia. Pfizer officials allegedly rewarded doctors in these countries with cash and vacations to prescribe more Pfizer drugs.

Knowing that it could get caught, Pfizer attempted to hide these illicit transactions by burying them in accounting records as business expenses. Rather than appear as payoffs; in other words, the bribes were entered into the books in such a way as to make them appear as travel expenses, training costs, freight charges, and entertainment.

"Corrupt pay-offs to foreign officials in order to secure lucrative contracts creates an inherently uneven marketplace and puts honest companies at a disadvantage," said James McJunking of the FBI's Washington, D.C., field office in a statement concerning the case.

Pfizer settlement amount far less than what the company generated in profits
When drug companies illegally generate billions of dollars in profits by bribing government officials and doctors to promote drugs; market drugs for off-label purposes, conduct fraudulent drug studies, and lie about the alleged benefits of drugs, they typically get off with a slap on the hand and a relatively small fine. This, of course, is exactly what has happened with Pfizer in this case.

As a result, there is no incentive for the company or any other to stop committing such crimes, because the monetary return is far greater than the relatively minimal penalty involved. And the best part about settlement arrangements such as this one, at least for the drug companies, is that the accused never have to admit they committed any wrongdoing, and their executives avoid facing any personal charges for the alleged crimes.

This is crony capitalism at its worst, and it is rampant throughout America today. Corporations are essentially free to break the law because the only potential penalty they will incur, if caught, is a modest fine and a few days of bad press, if that. The entire legal system, it seems, has been corrupted in such a way as to encourage drug companies to break the law because, in the long run, it is good for business.

Sources for this article include:

http://money.cnn.com

http://online.wsj.com

http://www.washingtonpost.com

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/036783_Pfizer_bribery_court_settlement.html#ixzz23 SGnPADa

RonRules
08-13-2012, 01:36 PM
I've scoured the internet and even bought all of the Amish remedy books I found on the internet but to no avail. I did however find a nice little tidbit in one of the books about stopping diarrhea. They claim that eating half a can of Blackberries will usually but an end to it. I guess it has something to do with the iron content of the Blackberries. Also they said a half cup of juice from canned Blackberries works just as well.

Try Ex-Lax. I recommend it right before you present your miracle cures to a large audience.

farreri
08-13-2012, 02:00 PM
Mind you I reserve the right to ridicule them.
Stay classy, RR.


Actually, I feel sorry for Big Pharma.
:eek: At a lose of words on that one.

farreri
08-13-2012, 02:02 PM
As far as our medical system is concern; Emergency based care--excellent. Long term care--the worst. IMHO.
Totally agree.

heavenlyboy34
08-13-2012, 02:12 PM
As far as vote tampering, I actually don't think it's the government (excluding political parties). I have other suspicions and trying hard to prove it. You should see some action over the next two weeks BTW.

I want less government, just like you do. For example, I think the FDA should not be involved in determining efficacy of medicine. The private market can determine that, maybe not that well, but for Liberty reasons. If people want to buy grass clippings at $30/bottle, then that's their decision as long such grass clippings won't hurt anybody. Mind you I reserve the right to ridicule them.

Having the FDA oversee safety is a reasonable compromise, but private pharmaceutical companies are already careful, in fact very careful because of ethical reasons and the risk of lawsuits. So the FDA could be reduced by 80-90% and we would still have safe medications. And YES medications are safe.

Generally I look for incompetence first and then conspiracies. If somehow a medical product comes out that happens to do more harm than good, then I believe it's usually incompetence or it's because the science is hard. Some effects may only show up 20 years later and you won't see that in a 2 year study. It's certainly not because the tri-lateral commission wants your babies born with a third foot sticking out of their forehead.

The "power and money hungry animals" are the Alt Med industry. There is plenty of research from that NIH that ALL this stuff is nonsense and doesn't work. Why do they keep on selling it?

Big Pharma is FORCED to stop selling medication if the FDA determines it is not effective enough.

Actually, I feel sorry for Big Pharma. They are brilliant people that work hard, take big business risks and are at the total mercy of the FDA.

On the other hand Big Placebo is what you should bitch about. They sell nonsense, like homeopathy and totally ineffective herbs, make millions fooling people, cause pain, suffering and premature deaths.

The least I can do is to ridicule them. But in fact, their ugly lime green websites need to be shut down and they should all be thrown in jail.

Ah, the classic "Watchman State"/"Nanny State" argument. Anyone with google can find out that pharma corps have been sued numerous times over ethics, lies about their products, etc. The FDA doesn't work. Whatever you think of pharma drugs, homeopathic, etc, any rational person can look at the FDA's history and see that it is a bad idea. (not to mention unconstitutional, if you believe in that)

phill4paul
08-13-2012, 02:20 PM
Try Ex-Lax. I recommend it right before you present your miracle cures to a large audience.

I'm not a licensed physician but I can confidently say that Ex-Lax is NOT the cure for diarrhea. I think you are referring to Kaopectate.

The Gold Standard
08-13-2012, 02:24 PM
I'm not a licensed physician but I can confidently say that Ex-Lax is NOT the cure for diarrhea. I think you are referring to Kaopectate.

If you aren't a government licensed physician then you have no right to be making any kind of outrageous medical claims like that. Only a bureaucrat with a rubber stamp knows who should provide medical advice.

phill4paul
08-13-2012, 02:27 PM
If you aren't a government licensed physician then you have no right to be making any kind of outrageous medical claims like that. Only a bureaucrat with a rubber stamp knows who should provide medical advice.

I did once stay at a Holiday Inn. :D

RonRules
08-13-2012, 02:31 PM
I'm not a licensed physician but I can confidently say that Ex-Lax is NOT the cure for diarrhea. I think you are referring to Kaopectate.

No shit!

farreri
08-13-2012, 02:41 PM
Statistics don't lie, people do.
Curious about something...

How many people die per year from choosing pharmaceutical medicines and surgery?
How many people die per year from choosing alternative medicine?

Can't wait to see the statistics on this one! :D

Dr.3D
08-13-2012, 02:55 PM
Try Ex-Lax. I recommend it right before you present your miracle cures to a large audience.
I didn't say it cured anything. As for the Ex-Lax, seems you have been using your own medicine, as you seem to have diarrhea of the mouth.

RonRules
08-13-2012, 03:10 PM
How many people die per year from choosing alternative medicine?

Here, start counting:

http://whatstheharm.net/

angelatc
08-13-2012, 03:41 PM
Here, start counting:

http://whatstheharm.net/

The problem is that those people were already sick, so it's hard to tell if they would have survived even if they had sought conventional medicine. If you get into home birth, it's very clear that the statistically, the baby has a lesser chance of surviving than if the baby is born in a hospital because it's pretty easy to keep track of babies born. But alternative therapy clinics don't share their mortality rates.

Also, lots of people combine the therapies, allowing both types of medicine to lay blame on the other when the patient doesn't respond to therapy.

RonRules
08-13-2012, 03:51 PM
But alternative therapy clinics don't share their mortality rates.

Yes, that's very true.

BTW, here's a victim. Recognize him on the left?

https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQE5BIH2EhxqiPsGLBwzIw2yeACJLbTD EHxV0PpI3noaFAt5aDTTw

tttppp
08-13-2012, 03:57 PM
Yes, that's very true.

BTW, here's a victim. Recognize him on the left?

https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQE5BIH2EhxqiPsGLBwzIw2yeACJLbTD EHxV0PpI3noaFAt5aDTTw

If he had started going to my acupuncturist at the time of his liver transplant, he would have been cured well before 2011.

dannno
08-13-2012, 04:35 PM
What, you want to go there to shoot me?

I think he wants to laugh at you for living in a shithole, but I'm not sure.

I guess my question would be, if you were right, wouldn't most of us have died from cyanide poisoning by now?

The fact is, the cyanide in laetrile is attached to another molecule and it doesn't get released without an enzyme found in.... cancer cell walls!! So it releases the cyanide on the site of the cancer, which kills the cancer. If there's no cancer, there's no free cyanide.

dannno
08-13-2012, 04:37 PM
//

Dr.3D
08-13-2012, 04:37 PM
I think he wants to laugh at you for living in a shithole, but I'm not sure.

I guess my question would be, if you were right, wouldn't most of us have died from arsenic poisoning by now?

The fact is, the arsenic in laetrile is attached to another molecule and it doesn't get released without an enzyme found in.... cancer cell walls!! So it releases the arsenic on the site of the cancer, which kills the cancer. If there's no cancer, there's no free arsenic.
Substitute cyanide for arsenic and you are hitting the nail on the head.

RonRules
08-13-2012, 05:39 PM
If he had started going to my acupuncturist at the time of his liver transplant, he would have been cured well before 2011.

I think acupuncture might actually be stupider than homeopathy and that's pretty much the high bar of stupidity!

You're getting a 100% ineffective "treatment", paying out of pocket, you're getting stabbed with hundreds of needles and you don't have a tattoo to show off.

RonRules
08-13-2012, 05:41 PM
The fact is, the arsenic in laetrile is attached to another molecule and it doesn't get released without an enzyme found in.... cancer cell walls!! So it releases the arsenic on the site of the cancer, which kills the cancer. If there's no cancer, there's no free arsenic.

Except it was proven to not work, like 30 years ago. Conventional medicine drop it because it was shit. The Alt Med charlatans picked it up and their suckers are savoring it, literally.

farreri
08-13-2012, 05:50 PM
Here, start counting:

http://whatstheharm.net/
From that site, it looks like only a handful of people die per year from choosing alternate medicine.

OK, now time for you to show your unbiasness and answer my other question I asked you...

How many people die per year from choosing pharmaceutical medicines and surgery?

farreri
08-13-2012, 05:52 PM
Yes, that's very true.

BTW, here's a victim. Recognize him on the left?

https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQE5BIH2EhxqiPsGLBwzIw2yeACJLbTD EHxV0PpI3noaFAt5aDTTw
What do you say about the cancer patients who choose conventional medicine and wind up looking like that before they die?

RonRules
08-13-2012, 06:00 PM
What do you say about the cancer patients who choose conventional medicine and wind up looking like that before they die?

What I have to say is this: Without conventional medicine, those very same people would have worms and maggots coming out of their orifices. I'll chose science-based medicine before worms and maggots.

angelatc
08-13-2012, 06:02 PM
Substitute cyanide for arsenic and you are hitting the nail on the head.

Cyanide doesn't accumulate in the body over time. So eating a small amount every day won't eventually kill you, no.

angelatc
08-13-2012, 06:03 PM
Except it was proven to not work, like 30 years ago. Conventional medicine drop it because it was shit. The Alt Med charlatans picked it up and their suckers are savoring it, literally.

Yes, they picked it up and modified it into the current B-17 scam.

angelatc
08-13-2012, 06:05 PM
What do you say about the cancer patients who choose conventional medicine and wind up looking like that before they die?

We say that the death rates from these diseases are falling almost every year due to the advances in modern medicine, but the sciences obviously aren't perfect.

farreri
08-13-2012, 06:05 PM
What I have to say is this: Without conventional medicine, those very same people would have worms and maggots coming out of their orifices. I'll chose science-based medicine before worms and maggots.
Why can't you ever answer a question straight instead of trying to divert to a different subject? It's very telling of your character.

dannno
08-13-2012, 06:05 PM
Except it was proven to not work, like 30 years ago. Conventional medicine drop it because it was shit. The Alt Med charlatans picked it up and their suckers are savoring it, literally.

Actually it was proven to work and the patient data was switched up by a big pharma shill. All of the information is available. Funny how the study that proved B-17 doesn't work some how proved that the placebo did work :confused:

Travlyr
08-13-2012, 06:08 PM
Cyanide doesn't accumulate in the body over time. So eating a small amount every day won't eventually kill you, no.

Yes, what Dr.3D is referring to: it is cyanide, not arsenic, contained in apple and apricot seeds. Too much water can kill just like too much cyanide. "An apple a day keeps the doctor away" because eating all the apple, including the seeds, is a healthy thing to do.

farreri
08-13-2012, 06:10 PM
We say that the death rates from these diseases are falling almost every year due to the advances in modern medicine
Even cancer and heart disease?


but the sciences obviously aren't perfect.
Exactly, and neither is alt medicine as none of us who support alt med ever suggest it was.

Too bad RR wasn't gutsy like you to give a straight answer, but he seems hell bent at smearing alt med at all costs and cozying up to big pharma.

farreri
08-13-2012, 06:12 PM
Actually it was proven to work and the patient data was switched up by a big pharma shill. All of the information is available. Funny how the study that proved B-17 doesn't work some how proved that the placebo did work :confused:
Let's see what kind of immature response RR gives to this.

donnay
08-13-2012, 06:16 PM
Cyanide doesn't accumulate in the body over time. So eating a small amount every day won't eventually kill you, no.


Laetrile and the Life Saving Substance Called Cyanide
by Philip Binzel, Jr., M.D (http://www.worldwithoutcancer.org.uk/laetrileandcyanide.html).

A doctor from the U.S. FDA once said that Laetrile contains "free" hydrogen cyanide and, thus, is toxic. I would like to correct that misconception:

There is no "free" hydrogen cyanide in Laetrile. When Laetrile comes in contact with the enzyme beta-glucosidase, the Laetrile is broken down to form two molecules of glucose, one molecule of benzaldehyde and one molecule of hydrogen cyanide (HCN). Within the body, the cancer cell-and only the cancer cell-contains that enzyme. The key word here is that the HCN must be FORMED. It is not floating around freely in the Laetrile and then released. It must be manufactured. The enzyme beta glucosidase, and only that enzyme, is capable of manufacturing the HCN from Laetrile. If there are no cancer cells in the body, there is no beta-glucosidase. If there is no beta-glucosidase, no HCN will be formed from the Laetrile (1).

Laetrile does contain the cyanide radical (CN). This same cyanide radical is contained in Vitamin B12, and in berries such as blackberries, blueberries and strawberries. You never hear of anyone getting cyanide poisoning from 12 or any of the above-mentioned berries, because they do not. The cyanide radical (CW) and hydrogen cyanide (HCN) are two completely different compounds, just as pure sodium (Na+) - one of the most toxic substances known to mankind - and sodium chloride (NaCl), which is table salt, are two completely different compounds.

If the above is true, how did the story ever get started that Laetrile contains "free" hydrogen cyanide? It was the Food and Drug Administration.

1. For a more detailed analysis of the theoretical action of Laetrile against cancer cells, see G. Edward Griffin, World Without Cancer (Thousand Oaks, CA: American Media, 1974).

I remember reading in some newspaper back in the late 1960's or early 1970's a news release from the FDA. This release stated that there were some proponents of a substance known as "Laetrile" (I'd never heard of it before) who were saying that this substance was capable of forming hydrogen cyanide in the presence of the cancer cell. The release continued by saying that, if this were actually true, we had, indeed, found a substance, which was target-specific, and would be of great value to the cancer patient. But, the news release went on to say, the FDA had done extensive testing of this substance, "Laetrile," and found no evidence that it contained hydrogen cyanide or that any hydrogen cyanide was released in the presence of the cancer cell. Thus, they said, Laetrile was of no value.

When it was clearly established some time later that Laetrile did, indeed, release hydrogen cyanide in the presence of the cancer cell, how do you suppose the FDA reacted? Did they admit that they were wrong? Did they admit that they had done a very inadequate job in running their tests? No! They now proclaimed that Laetrile contained hydrogen cyanide and thus was toxic!

So, here is a bureau of the Federal Government which, a short time before, had said that the reason Laetrile did not work was because it did not release hydrogen cyanide in the presence of cancer cells. Now, when they find that it does, they say that it is toxic. When offered an opportunity to present evidence of Laetrile's toxicity in Federal Court, they admitted that they had none. (See Chapter One Alive and Well by Dr. Philip Binzel, available at: http://www.realityzone.com or see Contacts).


Graphic on Action of Laetrile in Cancer
(A graphic representation of the chemistry of Nitrilosides in Cancer)

The founder of I.G. Farbin, Co., Leibig, discovered amygdalin in 1822. I.G. Farbin is a huge cartel containing some 2000 other cartels. Krebs discovered L-Mandelonitrile-beta-glucoside in 1922 (extrinsic). Beard sited role of trophoblast in British medical magazine Lancet and in 1904 and discussed intrinsic factor chymotrypsin. It was Dr. Ernest T. Krebs, Jr. who discovered the role of Nitrilosides, the extrensic factor, shown below:


Though it has limitations in certain cancers, vitamin B17 may be extremely effective in the most common tumours such as carcinoma of the lung, breast, prostate, colon, and lymphomas. A highly publicised clinical trial conducted by the National Cancer Institute in 1981 tried unsuccessfully to prove Laetrile ineffective and toxic. Today, Laetrile occupies a position on the "front lines" of alternative cancer therapy. "We have found Laetrile to be effective in people that have active cancer", says Dr. Contreras "but that is not its only function, for the prevention of cancer and the maintenance of remission there is nothing as effective as Laetrile. Its non-toxicity permits its use indefinitely in the prevention of relapses and the prevention of metastases. Surgery, radiation, and chemotherapy can only be administered for a limited time, afterward patients are left without any protection".

farreri
08-13-2012, 06:18 PM
because eating all the apple, including the seeds, is a healthy thing to do.
I never heard about eating the apple seeds along with the apple for good health. You know of a good article about the benefits of this?

Travlyr
08-13-2012, 06:25 PM
I never heard about eating the apple seeds along with the apple for good health. You know of a good article about the benefits of this?

I'm not a licensed physician ... or anybody important with assets ... so don't try and sue me. Some call me 'judgment proof." That is what my Mom told me. God Bless Her Soul.

Travlyr
08-13-2012, 06:26 PM
I never heard about eating the apple seeds along with the apple for good health. You know of a good article about the benefits of this?

Google it for truth.

angelatc
08-13-2012, 06:26 PM
Even cancer and heart disease?

Especially cancer (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/05/us-usa-cancer-rates-idUSTRE8032A420120105)and heart disease (http://www.drugs.com/news/u-s-heart-death-rates-falling-10384.html).



Exactly, and neither is alt medicine as none of us who support alt med ever suggest it was.

Too bad RR wasn't gutsy like you to give a straight answer, but he seems hell bent at smearing alt med at all costs and cozying up to big pharma.

I've actually known people that worked in big pharma, which is why I find this line of thought even more repulsive. It assumes that every young idealistic scientist who takes a job hoping to cure the world of all disease somehow becomes a miscreant determined to kill people while milking them of their life savings. That's just nuts.

There's been no scientific evidence that most of these treatments work. Cherries reduce inflammation - we saw several studies confirm that. Cranberry juice has been documented in curing simple bladder infections. But there's absolutely no evidence that apricot seeds prevent or cure cancer, despite several people actually running legitimate tests on it.

In this day and age, running studies and publishing them on the internet gives backyard scientists opportunities they've never had. Yet the people promoting these miracle cures never have any real evidence. They smear their competition, provide lots of anecdotal evidence, and ignore the uncomfortable truth that they're also in it for the money.

angelatc
08-13-2012, 06:29 PM
Actually it was proven to work and the patient data was switched up by a big pharma shill. All of the information is available. Funny how the study that proved B-17 doesn't work some how proved that the placebo did work :confused:

Are you talking about the guy who claims he was fired because his employer was hiding the results? Several other studies tried to duplicate the results he claimed, and none could.

And why do you think they use placebos?

angelatc
08-13-2012, 06:30 PM
Google it for truth.

Because if it's on the internet, it has to be true.

Travlyr
08-13-2012, 06:32 PM
Because if it's on the internet, it has to be true.

Ah no. That is the beauty of the free-market... "Caveat Emptor"

One can FIND the truth... but not everything posted is the truth.

donnay
08-13-2012, 06:34 PM
Because if it's on the internet, it has to be true.

It's a proverb.

angelatc
08-13-2012, 06:41 PM
Here are the real results of the NCI study (http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/laetrile/HealthProfessional/page5), which are markedly different than portrayed above:


In 1978, the National Cancer Institute (http://www.cancer.gov/Common/PopUps/popDefinition.aspx?id=44266&version=Patient&language=English) (NCI) requested case reports from practitioners who believed their patients had benefitted from laetrile treatment.[12 (http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/laetrile/HealthProfessional/page5#Reference5.12)] Ninety-three cases were submitted, and 67 were considered evaluable for response. An expert panel concluded that two of the 67 patients had complete responses and that four others had partial responses while using laetrile.[13 (http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/laetrile/HealthProfessional/page5#Reference5.13)] On the basis of these six responses, NCI agreed to sponsor phase I (http://www.cancer.gov/Common/PopUps/popDefinition.aspx?id=45830&version=Patient&language=English) and phase II clinical trials (http://www.cancer.gov/Common/PopUps/popDefinition.aspx?id=45831&version=Patient&language=English).


The phase I study was designed to test the doses, routes of administration, and the schedule of administration judged representative of those used by laetrile practitioners.[3 (http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/laetrile/HealthProfessional/page5#Reference5.3)] The study involved six cancer patients. The investigators found that intravenous and oral amygdalin showed minimal toxicity under the conditions evaluated; however, two patients who ate raw almonds while undergoing oral treatment developed symptoms of cyanide poisoning.


The phase II study was conducted in 1982 and was designed to test the types of cancer that might benefit from laetrile treatment.[2 (http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/laetrile/HealthProfessional/page5#Reference5.2)] Most patients had breast (http://www.cancer.gov/Common/PopUps/popDefinition.aspx?id=304766&version=Patient&language=English), colon (http://www.cancer.gov/Common/PopUps/popDefinition.aspx?id=46462&version=Patient&language=English), or lung cancer (http://www.cancer.gov/Common/PopUps/popDefinition.aspx?id=445043&version=Patient&language=English). To be eligible for the trial, patients had to be in good general condition (not totally disabled or near death), and they must not have received any other cancer therapy (http://www.cancer.gov/Common/PopUps/popDefinition.aspx?id=44737&version=Patient&language=English) for at least 1 month before treatment with amygdalin (http://www.cancer.gov/Common/PopUps/popDefinition.aspx?id=454511&version=Patient&language=English). Amygdalin, evaluated for potency and purity by NCI,[14 (http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/laetrile/HealthProfessional/page5#Reference5.14)] was administered intravenously for 21 days, followed by oral maintenance therapy (http://www.cancer.gov/Common/PopUps/popDefinition.aspx?id=45768&version=Patient&language=English), utilizing doses and procedures similar to those evaluated in the phase I study. Vitamins (http://www.cancer.gov/Common/PopUps/popDefinition.aspx?id=44744&version=Patient&language=English) and pancreatic enzymes (http://www.cancer.gov/Common/PopUps/popDefinition.aspx?id=46704&version=Patient&language=English) were also administered as part of a metabolic therapy (http://www.cancer.gov/Common/PopUps/popDefinition.aspx?id=44057&version=Patient&language=English)program that included dietary changes to restrict the use of caffeine, sugar, meats, dairy products, eggs, and alcohol. A small subset of patients received higher-dose amygdalin therapy and higher doses of some vitamins as part of the trial. Patients were followed until there was definite evidence of cancer progression (http://www.cancer.gov/Common/PopUps/popDefinition.aspx?id=44078&version=Patient&language=English), elevated blood cyanide levels, or severe clinical deterioration. Among 175 evaluable patients (http://www.cancer.gov/Common/PopUps/popDefinition.aspx?id=44029&version=Patient&language=English), only one patient met the criteria for response. This patient, who had gastric (http://www.cancer.gov/Common/PopUps/popDefinition.aspx?id=46770&version=Patient&language=English)carcinoma with cervical (http://www.cancer.gov/Common/PopUps/popDefinition.aspx?id=44102&version=Patient&language=English) lymph node (http://www.cancer.gov/Common/PopUps/popDefinition.aspx?id=45762&version=Patient&language=English) metastasis, experienced a partial response that was maintained for 10 weeks while on amygdalin therapy. Fifty-four percent of patients had measurable disease progression at the end of the intravenous course of treatment, and all patients had progression 7 months after completing intravenous therapy. Seven percent of patients reported an improvement in performance status (ability to work or to perform routine daily activities) at some time during therapy, and 20 percent claimed symptomatic (http://www.cancer.gov/Common/PopUps/popDefinition.aspx?id=44090&version=Patient&language=English) relief. In most patients, these benefits did not persist. Blood cyanide levels were not elevated after intravenous amygdalin treatment; however, they were elevated after oral therapy.[2 (http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/laetrile/HealthProfessional/page5#Reference5.2)]

farreri
08-13-2012, 06:41 PM
Especially cancer (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/05/us-usa-cancer-rates-idUSTRE8032A420120105)and heart disease (http://www.drugs.com/news/u-s-heart-death-rates-falling-10384.html).
I see. What's the top 2 leading causes of deaths due to disease in the US these days?


I've actually known people that worked in big pharma, which is why I find this line of thought even more repulsive. It assumes that every young idealistic scientist who takes a job hoping to cure the world of all disease somehow becomes a miscreant determined to kill people while milking them of their life savings. That's just nuts.
Any of these young idealistic scientists heading these big pharma companies?


Cherries reduce inflammation - we saw several studies confirm that. Cranberry juice has been documented in curing simple bladder infections.
Wait, RR said alt medicine stuff like this doesn't work. Was RR lying to us?

donnay
08-13-2012, 06:45 PM
Here are the real results of the NCI study (http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/laetrile/HealthProfessional/page5), which are markedly different than portrayed above:

"Because if it's on the internet, it has to be true."

farreri
08-13-2012, 06:46 PM
Here are the real results of the NCI study (http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/laetrile/HealthProfessional/page5), which are markedly different than portrayed above:
Who is the National Cancer Institute a part of and where do they get their funding?

angelatc
08-13-2012, 06:58 PM
I see. What's the top 2 leading causes of deaths due to disease in the US these days?[quote]

The death rates of these are falling - that was my point.

[quote]
Any of these young idealistic scientists heading these big pharma companies? No, but they do head R&D teams in them - One invented an antidepressant you've heard of, one invented an artifical sweetener (although that's not big pharma), and one is just failed to get approval to go ahead with clinical trials on an Alzheimer's treatment his team has been working on for 15 years.

(For the record, the guy who invented the antidepressant would allow his wife to take it, the guy who invented the artificial sweetener won't let his family touch it, and the aAzheimer's guy is totally disappointed that his theory didn't work, because his mother had Alzheimer's and he wants to help people.)



Wait, RR said alt medicine stuff like this doesn't work. Was RR lying to us?

Placebos do indeed work sometimes, so I assume he just misspoke.

tttppp
08-13-2012, 07:00 PM
I think acupuncture might actually be stupider than homeopathy and that's pretty much the high bar of stupidity!

You're getting a 100% ineffective "treatment", paying out of pocket, you're getting stabbed with hundreds of needles and you don't have a tattoo to show off.

And you're basing this on what? You speak as though you have no experience in western medicine or alternative medicine. Chinese traditional medicine have mastered the art of acupuncture and herbs. They don't take guesses at what your body needs, they know exactly what to give and they know what the treatment will do. They result of their treatment is a cure. Western medicine just takes guesses at what you need and the vast majority of the time they just tell their patients to live with their health problems.

angelatc
08-13-2012, 07:02 PM
Who is the National Cancer Institute a part of and where do they get their funding?

In this case, that doesn't matter, because it was put out there as a legitimate study that proved there may be value in the treatment. I just posted the actual findings. Unless you are going to say that their results only matter when they agree with your position,

But again, funding doesn't disprove the results. I read somewhere where one of the California laetrile providers hired a firm to study the results, then had a legal problem when they found his theories were not holding up.

angelatc
08-13-2012, 07:03 PM
"Because if it's on the internet, it has to be true."

You were the one who was citing them as a source. Make up your mind.

donnay
08-13-2012, 07:23 PM
You were the one who was citing them as a source. Make up your mind.


Umm...I haven't cited anything in this thread from NCI.

angelatc
08-13-2012, 07:30 PM
Umm...I have cited anything in this thread from NCI.

Yes, you did. Post #204


. A highly publicised clinical trial conducted by the National Cancer Institute in 1981 tried unsuccessfully to prove Laetrile ineffective and toxic.

RonRules
08-13-2012, 07:46 PM
Wait, RR said alt medicine stuff like this doesn't work. Was RR lying to us?

I'm not against cranberry juice or cherries. Who said that was alternative?

donnay
08-13-2012, 07:48 PM
Yes, you did. Post #204

Yes the whole quote is from an article I posted. Not citing anything from the NCI. There is a difference.

Though it has limitations in certain cancers, vitamin B17 may be extremely effective in the most common tumours such as carcinoma of the lung, breast, prostate, colon, and lymphomas. A highly publicised clinical trial conducted by the National Cancer Institute in 1981 tried unsuccessfully to prove Laetrile ineffective and toxic. Today, Laetrile occupies a position on the "front lines" of alternative cancer therapy. "We have found Laetrile to be effective in people that have active cancer", says Dr. Contreras "but that is not its only function, for the prevention of cancer and the maintenance of remission there is nothing as effective as Laetrile. Its non-toxicity permits its use indefinitely in the prevention of relapses and the prevention of metastases. Surgery, radiation, and chemotherapy can only be administered for a limited time, afterward patients are left without any protection".

donnay
08-13-2012, 07:57 PM
I'm not against cranberry juice or cherries. Who said that was alternative?

You do not have to get a prescription for them--it's alternative.

RonRules
08-13-2012, 07:59 PM
Chinese traditional medicine have mastered the art of acupuncture and herbs.

No they have not. They're still poking (pun intended) in the dark after 6,000 years.

Acupuncture is complete nonsense. It does not and cannot work. It's totally placebo and "sham accupuncture" "works" just like normal accupuncture. In fact it also "works" without puncturing at all. It's all in the mind of the patient. Find repeatable sources and learn stuff.

On the other hand, the job of medical science is to prove efficacy BEYOND the placebo effect. That's hard. Science is hard.

About Chinese herbs, I remmber Randi telling a story about his adventures in China. He would go to one shop, describe his symptoms and be given several different herbs. He would carefully make note of them. He would the go to a different shop and with the same exact symptoms, and he would get totally different herbs.

Everytime I see a Chinese herbal store, I come in and ask two things: Do you know what a double-blind study is? Do you know what the placebo effect is. I have yet to find a single Chinese herbalist that can answer both questions.

The really have no clue because Chinese herbalists don't use the scientific method.

Here's a story related to Randi's story:
http://ancientway.com/blog/?p=2416

RonRules
08-13-2012, 08:00 PM
You do not have to get a prescription for them--it's alternative.

Same for jelly donuts I guess.

Dr.3D
08-13-2012, 08:04 PM
You do not have to get a prescription for them--it's alternative.
That's like saying Oranges prevent and cure scurvy. You can't legally say that, because the FDA says that would make the orange a drug and since they have not authorized it as a preventive or cure for scurvy, you can't say it is. Oranges do however prevent and cure scurvy.

donnay
08-13-2012, 08:07 PM
Same for jelly donuts I guess.

I am not a cop so I am not qualified to answer that question.

tttppp
08-13-2012, 08:08 PM
No they have not. They're still poking (pun intended) in the dark after 6,000 years.

Acupuncture is complete nonsense. It does not and cannot work. It's totally placebo and "sham accupuncture" "works" just like normal accupuncture. In fact it also "works" without puncturing at all. It's all in the mind of the patient. Find repeatable sources and learn stuff.

On the other hand, the job of medical science is to prove efficacy BEYOND the placebo effect. That's hard. Science is hard.

About Chinese herbs, I remmber Randi telling a story about his adventures in China. He would go to one shop, describe his symptoms and be given several different herbs. He would carefully make note of them. He would the go to a different shop and with the same exact symptoms, and he would get totally different herbs.

Everytime I see a Chinese herbal store, I come in and ask two things: Do you know what a double-blind study is? Do you know what the placebo effect is. I have yet to find a single Chinese herbalist that can answer both questions.

The really have no clue because Chinese herbalists don't use the scientific method.

Here's a story related to Randi's story:
http://ancientway.com/blog/?p=2416

Not every practitioner of chinese traditional medicine is competent, so you won't get the exact same treatment every place you go. You have to shop around for the better ones.

When I go to a doctor, they tell me the exact same thing every time..." I don't know". They are very consitent with that answer. But I guess since they all had the same answer, they must be correct. I guess they cure millions of patients by just doing nothing.

You honestly asked acupuncturists about double blind studies and placebo effect? Why the fuck would they care about that? Why don't you ask them a relevant question? Ill bet they don't do anything for you because they'll tell you to get the fuck out.

donnay
08-13-2012, 08:11 PM
That's like saying Oranges prevent and cure scurvy. You can't legally say that, because the FDA says that would make the orange a drug and since they have not authorized it as a preventive or cure for scurvy, you can't say it is. Oranges do however prevent and cure scurvy.

That's because Big pHARMa cannot patent citrus fruit.

Dr.3D
08-13-2012, 08:17 PM
That's because Big pHARMa cannot patent citrus fruit.
Give em time, I'll bet they get together with Monsanto and find a way to do it.

Edit: And then of course, they will say only these patented oranges can be said to prevent and cure scurvy.

RonRules
08-13-2012, 08:48 PM
Why the fuck would they care about that?

There is no more important question to ask in medicine. It's what changed everything.

The Alt Med people hate it because it exposes their snake oil.

Dr.3D
08-13-2012, 08:52 PM
~snip
Why the fuck would they care about that?
Yep, they could care less about double blind studies. If something works, it works and they could care less about anything else.

tttppp
08-13-2012, 08:52 PM
There is no more important question to ask in medicine. It's what changed everything.

The Alt Med people hate it because it exposes their snake oil.

So let me get this straight. An acupuncturist can do everything right and cure all their patients, however if a study is done with the good acupuncturist and some dumb fuck acupuncturist, none of the stuff the good acupuncturist does will count because the dumb acupuncturist could not duplicate the treatment of the good acupuncturist.

Travlyr
08-13-2012, 08:53 PM
There is no more important question to ask in medicine. It's what changed everything.

The Alt Med people hate it because it exposes their snake oil.

Food/nutrition is not bad for you. Alt med is simply understanding the world we live in and taking advantage of it. The snake oil salesmen comes with the people who don't tell the truth. The truth exposes both sides of the discussion. Your side is not doing that. Why?

tttppp
08-13-2012, 08:55 PM
Yep, they could care less about double blind studies. If something works, it works and they could care less about anything else.

Part of what they sell you on is the guy down the street can't duplicate what they can do. Why would they want to advertise you can go to any acupuncturist and get the same treatment?

Dr.3D
08-13-2012, 09:01 PM
Part of what they sell you on is the guy down the street can't duplicate what they can do. Why would they want to advertise you can go to any acupuncturist and get the same treatment?

If something works and I feel better and get the results I'm looking for, I don't care if it's all in my head, the pain was all in my head anyway. If it works, it works. That's all there is to it.

That's why I have instructed my physician to prescribe placebos as he finds necessary. I do mention not to use the ones with the little m's on the side of them though as I caught on to them when I accidentally bit down on one and found a peanut inside the chocolate filling.

RonRules
08-13-2012, 09:32 PM
If something works, it works and they could care less about anything else.

There you go again. You're still confused about this:
http://incompetech.com/Images/caring.png

And here's the key:

"If something works, it works " NO!

You don't know if something works until you TEST it properly and that involves proper experimental setup, double blinding, etc.

farreri
08-13-2012, 09:34 PM
RR, how many people die per year from choosing pharmaceutical medicines and surgery?

Dr.3D
08-13-2012, 09:36 PM
There you go again. You're still confused about this:
http://incompetech.com/Images/caring.png

And here's the key:

"If something works, it works " NO!

You don't know if something works until you TEST it properly and that involves proper experimental setup, double blinding, etc.

Okay, they couldn't care less.

And the test was that my pain went away.

My uncle was a pretty interesting fellow. People for miles around would come over to his house and show him their warts. He would rub his finger on the wart and tell them it would go away in a couple of weeks. Interesting thing is, most often, those warts would be gone in a couple of weeks.

People didn't care why the wart went away, only that it did go away. It worked for them and that's all that mattered.

tttppp
08-13-2012, 09:50 PM
There you go again. You're still confused about this:
http://incompetech.com/Images/caring.png

And here's the key:

"If something works, it works " NO!

You don't know if something works until you TEST it properly and that involves proper experimental setup, double blinding, etc.

So being cured of your problems doesn't count. You first have to get cured by one acupuncturist, then you have to magically get your health problems back, then test it again with another acupuncturist. Good luck convincing all the people cured by acupuncture that it doesn't count because they didn't do a double blind study and fill out the proper paper work with the science establishment.

Travlyr
08-14-2012, 05:38 AM
RR, how many people die per year from choosing pharmaceutical medicines and surgery?

RonRules, why won't you answer this question?

RonRules
08-14-2012, 02:55 PM
RonRules, why won't you answer this question?

YOU figure it out. It'll do you good.

RonRules
08-14-2012, 02:59 PM
I wrote to Dr Den Goldacre (google him)

His automated reply is a hoot!

Hi,

thanks for your email. I used to be able to reply to everything, but since the book took off I’ve been a bit deluged. Writing’s just a hobby and I have a dayjob! I do still read everything, but here are some brief things that might be useful:

- If you’re inviting me to do an event, you want sballard@unitedagents.co.uk

- If you’re a journalist, I’ll get back to you, but contacting sballard@unitedagents.co.uk (or rscoular@unitedagents.co.uk for telly) as well reduces the chances of me missing it.

- If you’ve sent me a story, or a heads up on something, thanks! These are the best emails I get, especially if it’s a link to an interesting analysis in an academic paper, or a newspaper story that’s not just wrong, but interestingly wrong. Your kind assistance will be noted in nerd heaven.

- If your email is about my real dayjob stuff (not my hobby, which is writing about stuff), then this is the wrong email address, but I’ll definitely get back to you.

- If you’re worried/annoyed about something in your local area or field, maybe you should also consider writing it up, posting it on a blog, writing for your local paper, contacting your MP, or communicating with the relevant regulator or professional body (and maybe writing that up!). These are all fun and valuable things to do.

- If you want to get into writing, the only advice I can offer is “write!”, on a blog, in a local mag, a student paper, anywhere and everywhere that will have you, practice, feedback, and repeat. I got a column by ringing the switchboard number on the letters page. All newspapers print this. That is honestly all I know about getting commissioned. Usually people say no. Be prepared to sell your idea in one sentence and sound plausible.

- If you think there’s a medical conspiracy to poison us with vaccines, or maybe you have a new theory about how the universe works which you invented in your garage, that’s awesome, thanks for thinking of me.

- If you’re a press officer and you’re sending me a circular press release, I’ve never, ever, ever written an article based on a press release, and I obviously never will. If you send me unsolicited circular emails more than once, I'm afraid your email address will go on a blacklist, all emails from you and your organisation from then on will be deleted automatically, but you will get an auto-responder informing you of your deletion. This is to make my inbox manageable.

- If you're a mole from the pharmaceutical industry with a frightening story of hidden harm, then this is very exciting, I hope you haven't used your work email address.

- If you're writing about an evidence based policy issue, then I think this paper which I helped to write sets out the issues pretty well, if you're interested in running trials in your field then let me know and I'd be happy to help in any way I can.

- If you're asking whether one specific thing that's obviously quackery is actually quackery, and you're asking because you couldn't find anything about that one specific type of quackery on badscience.net, then be honest with yourself, it's almost certainly quackery.

- If you’ve sent me a “keep it up” email, then really, genuinely: thanks. I send lots of these to total strangers myself, writing is solitary, it’s nice to hear that people care about the same nerdy stuff you care about. You are not alone!

- If you’ve re-used parts of the book or columns in a school or university lesson then that’s particularly awesome, thank you, and please share any resources you've made! If it’s a very commercial context you can check with sballard@unitedagents.co.uk, but if it’s just in your class then I’m delighted.

dr ben goldacre
ben@goldacre.net
http://www.badscience.net/



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phill4paul
08-14-2012, 03:06 PM
You honestly asked acupuncturists about double blind studies and placebo effect? Why the fuck would they care about that? Why don't you ask them a relevant question? Ill bet they don't do anything for you because they'll tell you to get the fuck out.

No he doesn't go into every Chinese herbal store he sees. He's either full of shit or exaggerating to make his case sound better.

tttppp
08-14-2012, 03:31 PM
No he doesn't go into every Chinese herbal store he sees. He's either full of shit or exaggerating to make his case sound better.

I know he's full of shit. It would be funny if actually did do that though. Id like to go into doctors offices and harrass them. Unfortunetly doctors won't talk to you unless you wait for hours then pay them a ton of money.

Travlyr
08-14-2012, 08:22 PM
YOU figure it out. It'll do you good.

I got it figured out. You don't have any idea what you are talking about. You are a copy/paste guy/girl.

RonRules
08-19-2012, 10:30 PM
A Surgical Oncologist Speaks Out on the Perils of Alternative Cancer Therapies
http://uprisingradio.org/home/2012/08/17/a-surgical-oncologist-speaks-out-on-the-perils-of-alternative-cancer-therapies/

According to statistics from the Centers for Disease Control about 12.7 million people around the world will be diagnosed with cancer this year and about 7.6 million people will die from the disease. In the United States, cancer is the second leading cause of death and over 570,000 Americans will die of some type of cancer this year. Despite these staggering figures, overall death rates from cancer are actually on the decline since the 1990s. Researchers have attributed much of this downward trend to better treatments. But, while newer forms of treatment and more advanced versions of chemotherapy and radiation have enabled patients to battle the disease more effectively, some still turn to alternative therapies to treat their illness. Among the alternative therapies is the Gerson Therapy created by Max Gerson which you may have heard about on KPFK. The Gerson Therapy claims to be an effective way to fight cancer by consuming a vegetarian diet, large quantities of fresh juices, and administering a regimen of coffee enemas. Yet, research done by various cancer groups including the American Cancer Society, The National Cancer Institute and Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center have all concluded that the effectiveness of the Gerson therapy is highly doubtful.

The show is on podcast:
http://ia600507.us.archive.org/25/items/DailyDigest.081712/2012_08_17_gorski.mp3

You'll learn something.

tttppp
08-19-2012, 10:51 PM
A Surgical Oncologist Speaks Out on the Perils of Alternative Cancer Therapies
http://uprisingradio.org/home/2012/08/17/a-surgical-oncologist-speaks-out-on-the-perils-of-alternative-cancer-therapies/

According to statistics from the Centers for Disease Control about 12.7 million people around the world will be diagnosed with cancer this year and about 7.6 million people will die from the disease. In the United States, cancer is the second leading cause of death and over 570,000 Americans will die of some type of cancer this year. Despite these staggering figures, overall death rates from cancer are actually on the decline since the 1990s. Researchers have attributed much of this downward trend to better treatments. But, while newer forms of treatment and more advanced versions of chemotherapy and radiation have enabled patients to battle the disease more effectively, some still turn to alternative therapies to treat their illness. Among the alternative therapies is the Gerson Therapy created by Max Gerson which you may have heard about on KPFK. The Gerson Therapy claims to be an effective way to fight cancer by consuming a vegetarian diet, large quantities of fresh juices, and administering a regimen of coffee enemas. Yet, research done by various cancer groups including the American Cancer Society, The National Cancer Institute and Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center have all concluded that the effectiveness of the Gerson therapy is highly doubtful.

The show is on podcast:
http://ia600507.us.archive.org/25/items/DailyDigest.081712/2012_08_17_gorski.mp3

You'll learn something.

Eating healthy is stupid. Instead of eating right, I suggest people should to regular chemo or radiation because its so damn good for you.