14 Questions People Ask About How To Prepare For The Collapse Of The Economy

[John F Kennedy III]

14 Questions People Ask About How To Prepare For The Collapse Of The Economy


Michael Snyder
Economic Collapse
Aug 8, 2012

How in the world is someone supposed to actually prepare for an economic collapse? What should you do with your money? How can you make sure that your family is going to be okay?


How can you prepare if your resources are extremely limited? These are the kinds of questions people ask me all the time. Once people understand that the economy has been collapsing and will continue to collapse, then the next step for most of them is that they want to get prepared for the storm that is coming. So where should someone get started? Well, the truth is that no two people are facing the exact same set of circumstances, so preparation is going to look different for each individual. But there are certain core principles that we can all benefit from. For example, when a financial storm is coming that is not the time to be blowing thousands of dollars on vacations and new toys. You would be surprised at how many people there are that claim that they have no extra money in their budgets and yet somehow have plenty of money to run down to Wal-Mart and buy a big stack of DVDs. When times are difficult, each hard-earned dollar becomes much more precious, and we all need to start getting into the habit of making the most out of our limited resources. The seemingly endless prosperity that we have all been enjoying for decades is coming to an end, and most of us have absolutely no experience on how to deal with truly hard times. If you are under the age of 60, it might be a really good idea to read a book or two on what conditions were like during the Great Depression of the 1930s. There is a lot that we can learn from our own history.

Another key characteristic that we will all need in the years ahead is flexibility. Anyone that has spent any time in the military knows that very few plans ever work out perfectly. As the global economy breaks down and the world becomes increasingly unstable, conditions are going to change rapidly. What might work really well in one situation might be the exact wrong thing to do 6 months later. If you are not willing or able to adapt to dramatic change then you are going to have a lot of difficulty in the years ahead.

Many people refer to me as a “doom and gloomer” because I run a website called “The Economic Collapse” and I am constantly pointing out that the entire world is heading for a complete and total financial nightmare.

But I don’t think that it does any good to stick your head in the sand. I believe that there is hope in understanding what is happening and I believe that there is hope in getting prepared.

It is those that are completely oblivious to what is really going on that will be totally blindsided by the coming crisis. When they finally realize what has come upon them many of them will totally lose it.

From my little spot on the wall I am trying my best to warn people so that they can have a chance to be prepared for what is coming.

I am not spreading doom and gloom.

I am spreading hope.

And I want to make another point. Generally, things are going to be getting progressively worse as the years roll along. As I have written about before, I believe that the economic collapse is not a single event. Rather, I see it as a series of waves that will be punctuated by moments of great crisis.

So advice about preparation is going to be different depending on whether you are talking about the short-term or the mid-term or the long-term. Hopefully you will keep that in mind as you read my answers to the questions below.

The following are common questions that people ask about how to prepare for the collapse of the economy….

#1 How Do I Get Started?

When the financial crisis of 2008 hit, what was the biggest danger for most Americans?

The biggest danger was that they would lose their jobs and not be able to pay their bills.

During the last recession, millions and millions of Americans did end up losing their jobs.

And because many of them were living paycheck to paycheck many of them also ended up losing their homes.

You do not want that to happen to you.

So what I am about to say next is not considered to be very “sexy” in prepper circles, but it is absolutely crucial advice.

You need to have an emergency fund saved up that can cover your expenses for at least six months.

That way if you lose your job or your business goes under you will be able to keep going for a while as you figure out what your next move will be.

These days it takes the average unemployed American nearly 40 weeks to find a new job, and it will likely be even worse in the next major economic downturn.

So make sure that you have plenty of cash saved up just in case. If you are currently living paycheck to paycheck you are extremely vulnerable.

#2 What Should I Do With My Money?

I get this question a lot.

People always want to know where they should put their money.

Well, my first piece of advice is always to build an emergency fund. See #1 above. Most people do not have one.

After that is done, I am a big believer in not putting all of my eggs into one basket.

Sometimes people will tell me that they are going to take all of their money out of the banks because they don’t feel safe having their money in them.

Well, if you stick all of your money in your mattress, what happens if there is a fire or what happens if someone robs you?

That is why I believe in spreading your risk around. Having money a bunch of different places is a good thing.

But one place I would not put it is in the stock market. If you were fortunate enough to catch the recent rally you should get out while the getting is good.

If you have blind faith in the stock market you are going to be deeply disappointed eventually. I do not have a single penny in the stock market, and a couple of years from now that is going to look like a very wise move.

#3 Should I Invest In Precious Metals?

A lot of people that write about the economic crisis in this country really advocate investing in precious metals because they tend to hold value over time (unlike fiat currencies).

I like precious metals myself, but if you are going to invest you need to get educated so that you know what you are doing. If you go in blindly you are likely to get burned at some point.

In addition, you need to be prepared for wild fluctuations in price over the coming years. There will be times when gold and silver absolutely soar and there will be times when they drop like a rock.

So if you are going to play the game you need to be able to handle the ride.

#4 Should I Get Out Of Debt?

Many that write about the coming economic collapse say that you shouldn’t even bother to pay off your debts because the financial system is going to collapse anyway.

I don’t see it that way.

I don’t believe that our banks are going to totally collapse and suddenly go out of existence.

Not in the short-term anyway.

So I believe that it is actually a good idea to get out of debt. When financial troubles hit you don’t want a horde of bill collectors coming after you.

There is a lot of freedom that comes with getting out of debt, and in this environment it is wise to become as independent of the system as possible.

#5 What If I Don’t Have Any Money To Prepare?

In this kind of economic environment it is no surprise that I get this question a lot.

Many families are just barely scraping by each month and they do not have much money to put into anything.

And I can definitely sympathize with that.

However, I would say that there are very, very few families out there that do not have anything that can be cut out of the budget.

The truth is that American families are experts at blowing money on really stupid stuff.

In general, I recommend that all families do what they can to reduce their expenses.

The smaller of a financial footprint you have, the better off you will be and the more resources you will have to help you get prepared.

Also, now is the time to be looking for ways that you can increase your income.

For many Americans, starting a side business is a way to bring in some extra cash. Yes, this will cut into your television watching time, but now is not the time to be lazy.

The time you spend working hard now while the sun is still shining will pay off later.

Don’t be afraid to work harder than you ever have before.

#6 Should I Rent Or Buy?

This is a question that I also get a lot, and it really depends on your situation.

If you rent, that gives you a lot more flexibility. You can move for a new job or a new opportunity without having to sell a house. And you get to avoid a lot of the expenses and hassles that come with being a homeowner.

If you buy, you get to “lock in” your housing expenses for many years. In a highly inflationary environment this would potentially be very beneficial. And interest rates are very low right now.

In addition, it is going to be really hard to rent a really good “prepper” property. If you are looking for a property that is away from the big cities where you can grow your own food and become more independent of the system, then in most cases you are going to have to buy such a property.

But if you do buy, it is going to be much harder to move if something does happen and you need to go somewhere else.

#7 What About My Health Condition?

Over the next few years, our health care system should continue operating at least somewhat normally. But the truth is that our health care system is in horrible shape and it is not a good thing to be totally dependent on pills and doctors.

Even if economic conditions were perfect it would be a good idea to learn what you can do on your own to improve your health. But this is especially true as we move into a time of great economic instability.

#8 Should I Be Storing Food?

Yes.

However, even though the United States is experiencing a historic drought right now, I do not believe that there will be major food shortages in America this year or next year.

Down the road, however, is a different story.

And your food dollars are never going to go farther than they do right now. As I wrote about the other day, this drought is likely to cause food prices to go up substantially, and so the food you store now might end up being twice as valuable a few years from now.

In addition, you never know when a major disaster or emergency is going to strike so it is always good to become more independent of the system.

I encourage everyone to learn how to grow a garden. Yes, your space may be limited, but there is actually one family that produces 6000 pounds of produce every year on just 1/10th of an acre right in the middle of Pasadena, California.

If they can do such extraordinary things with their little plot of land, why can’t you try to do what you can with what you have?

#9 Should I Be Storing Water?

It is always good to have some water on hand in case disaster or emergency strikes.

And you should be rotating whatever water you currently have on hand because you don’t want water sitting around indefinitely.

But what is much more important is to make sure that you and your family have access to a source of water that you can depend on if disaster strikes and the grid goes down.

In a previous article I discussed a report put out by the American Trucker Associations entitled “When Trucks Stop, America Stops” that detailed just how incredibly vulnerable our water supply really is….


According to the American Water Works Association, Americans drink more than one billion glasses of tap water per day. For safety and security reasons, most water supply plants maintain a larger inventory of supplies than the typical business. However, the amount of chemical storage varies significantly and is site specific. According to the Chlorine Institute, most water treatment facilities receive chlorine in cylinders (150 pounds and one ton cylinders) that are delivered by motor carriers. On average, trucks deliver purification chemicals to water supply plants every seven to 14 days. Without these chemicals, water cannot be purified and made safe for drinking. Without truck deliveries of purification chemicals, water supply plants will run out of drinkable water in 14 to 28 days. Once the water supply is drained, water will be deemed safe for drinking only when boiled. Lack of clean drinking water will lead to increased gastrointestinal and other illnesses, further taxing an already weakened healthcare system.

So yes, water is definitely something you should be accounting for in your preparations.

#10 Other Than Food And Water What Other Supplies Will I Need?


Anything that you use on a regular basis or that you would use in an emergency situation is something that you should consider storing up.

For example, if you could not buy any more toilet paper from the stores, what would you do?

Basic things like that are often overlooked by many preppers.

In a previous article, I listed dozens of things you may want to consider storing. Preparation is going to look different for every family, but hopefully that list will give you some ideas.

#11 What Happens If The Power Grid Goes Down?

This is a very important consideration – especially if you live in a colder climate.

Some people have a backup generator for such circumstances.

Others have set up wind and/or solar systems for their homes.

Alternative energy solutions are great if you can afford them, and they will enable you to become much more independent of the system.

But not everyone can afford to put in solar panels or a big wind turbine.

So do what you can with what you have.

#12 Should I Leave The Big Cities?

A lot of people ask me this, but there is no easy answer.

In this day and age, a good job is like gold. It can be really, really tough to give up a good job and move to the middle of nowhere.

But without a doubt, society is starting to come apart at the seams and I do expect rioting and major civil unrest in our major cities at some point in the future.

In the end, you need to do what is right for you and your own family. Nobody else can make this decision for you.

#13 Should I Get Some Self-Defense Training?

America seems to be overrun by psychopaths and sociopaths these days, and in such an environment being able to defend yourself becomes more important.

When criminals come to your home, they are not going to sit down and have a debate with you. They are not going to care what your political outlook is or if you sympathize with their plight.

The criminals are simply going to do what they came there to do unless someone stops them.

So yes, some self-defense training may come in very handy in the years ahead.

#14 What Should I Do If My Family And Friends Won’t Listen To Me?

This is another very common question that I get.

What should people do if nobody will listen to them?

Well, you just have to do the best that you can. If they won’t listen now, just keep planting seeds. Keep sending them articles that are packed with statistics and information that show why an economic collapse is going to happen.

In the years ahead we are all going to need our families and our friends because communities will endure what is coming much better than “lone wolf” individuals will be able to.

No matter how hard you prepare, at some point you are going to need the help of someone else.

So don’t be afraid to reach out to others.

If nobody among your family or friends will listen to you at the moment, you may have to prepare on your own right now.

In fact, you may have to do extra preparation because at some point it is probably inevitable that your family and friends will come to you for help.

That is the perspective that my wife and I take. We are not only preparing for ourselves. We are also preparing for the family members that may have to depend on us someday.

Nobody said that preparing was going to be easy.

But beyond any physical preparations, I also believe that it is absolutely crucial to prepare mentally and spiritually.

The times that are coming are going to be incredibly challenging. They are going to require a great deal of physical, mental, emotional and spiritual strength.

If you are a “lone wolf” that believes that you don’t need anyone or anything, then I feel sorry for you and I honestly don’t know how you are going to make it.

None of us have all the answers.

I know that I certainly do not.

I have just written nearly 3000 words, but after I post this article I know that some of the great visitors to my site will post ideas that I never even considered for this article.

We can all learn from each other. Most of the people that I have met that think “they know it all” are some of the most clueless people that I have ever come across.

I never want to stop learning, and hopefully that is the case for you as well.

If we work together, perhaps we can all make it through the horrible, horrible times that are coming.


original article here:
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/14-questions-people-ask-about-how-to-prepare-for-the-collapse-of-the-economy

[shane77m]

#14 What Should I Do If My Family And Friends Won’t Listen To Me?

Most think you are crazy if you start prepping. Oh well. Better to have it and not need it.

[John F Kennedy III]

Most think you are crazy if you start prepping. Oh well. Better to have it and not need it.

Definitely. Prep for the worst no matter what you actually think will happen.

[Danke]

#2 What Should I Do With My Money?

I get this question a lot.

People always want to know where they should put their money.

Well, my first piece of advice is always to build an emergency fund. See #1 above. Most people do not have one.

After that is done, I am a big believer in not putting all of my eggs into one basket.

Sometimes people will tell me that they are going to take all of their money out of the banks because they don’t feel safe having their money in them.

Well, if you stick all of your money in your mattress, what happens if there is a fire or what happens if someone robs you?

That is why I believe in spreading your risk around. Having money a bunch of different places is a good thing.

But one place I would not put it is in the stock market. If you were fortunate enough to catch the recent rally you should get out while the getting is good.

If you have blind faith in the stock market you are going to be deeply disappointed eventually. I do not have a single penny in the stock market, and a couple of years from now that is going to look like a very wise move.


#4 Should I Get Out Of Debt?

Many that write about the coming economic collapse say that you shouldn’t even bother to pay off your debts because the financial system is going to collapse anyway.

I don’t see it that way.

I don’t believe that our banks are going to totally collapse and suddenly go out of existence.

Not in the short-term anyway.

So I believe that it is actually a good idea to get out of debt. When financial troubles hit you don’t want a horde of bill collectors coming after you.

There is a lot of freedom that comes with getting out of debt, and in this environment it is wise to become as independent of the system as possible.



I don't think worrying about debt collector calls should be much of a concern in a collapse.

So pay off debt and become cash poor, or hoard cash as he recommends in bullet #2? I think there is a slight contradiction.

[Nickels]

Most think you are crazy if you start prepping. Oh well. Better to have it and not need it.

I just had to give away some of the canned foods I hoarded in 2008. Some people are comfortable eating expired cans, I wasted $100 max. But was going to last me about 2 weeks if I actually needed it. I don't consider food preparation alarmist or apacolyptic, maybe because I'm used to eating at home and know what it's like when power goes out.

[Nickels]

I don't think worrying about debt collector calls should be much of a concern in a collapse.

So pay off debt and become cash poor, or hoard cash as he recommends in bullet #2? I think there is a slight contradiction.

Yes, it does sound like a contradiction. It all turns on, where would creditors go in a collapse? If they give up, it makes sense to owe money now. If they'll become worse, and have power to take your assets, it makes sense to owe none and be cash poor.

[Danke]

Yes, it does sound like a contradiction. It all turns on, where would creditors go in a collapse? If they give up, it makes sense to owe money now. If they'll become worse, and have power to take your assets, it makes sense to owe none and be cash poor.

I'm thinking more about unsecured debt. Like credit cards.

[Nickels]

I'm thinking more about unsecured debt. Like credit cards.

gotcha.

[Kluge]

I just had to give away some of the canned foods I hoarded in 2008. Some people are comfortable eating expired cans, I wasted $100 max. But was going to last me about 2 weeks if I actually needed it. I don't consider food preparation alarmist or apacolyptic, maybe because I'm used to eating at home and know what it's like when power goes out.

No offense, but you aren't storing correctly--only buy extra of what you'll eat in normal circumstances and rotate your stock. I'm creeped out by soy-based meat substitutes, so there's no point in me storing that, even if I do think I would eat it if I'm hungry and broke. Chances are that I'll have a better option and never eat it.

[Nickels]

No offense, but you aren't storing correctly--only buy extra of what you'll eat in normal circumstances and rotate your stock. I'm creeped out by soy-based meat substitutes, so there's no point in me storing that, even if I do think I would eat it if I'm hungry and broke. Chances are that I'll have a better option and never eat it.

Not offended, I definitely made a mistake and learned the hard way, luckily it didn't cost more than I was willing to lose. I've gotten a little better at it now.

[John F Kennedy III]

No offense, but you aren't storing correctly--only buy extra of what you'll eat in normal circumstances and rotate your stock. I'm creeped out by soy-based meat substitutes, so there's no point in me storing that, even if I do think I would eat it if I'm hungry and broke. Chances are that I'll have a better option and never eat it.

And stock up on heirloom seeds.

[Noble Savage]

#15 make sure you are flexible enough to bend over and kiss your ass goodbye.

[PaulConventionWV]

I don't think worrying about debt collector calls should be much of a concern in a collapse.

So pay off debt and become cash poor, or hoard cash as he recommends in bullet #2? I think there is a slight contradiction.

Not at all. If you pay off debt, you are making it much easier to collect cash. What's more, what cash you collect you won't owe to anyone. Like he does, I believe that the system will not collapse entirely, but it will be a process and the bills aren't going to get easier to pay just because of inflation. That hasn't worked for the past few decades, has it? The amount of versatility and freedom that comes with paying off debt way outweights the possibility that inflation will pay for your bills. Inflation doesn't necessarily mean you have more dollars, either, so it's not going to be easy to pay off your debt by any means just because the dollar itself is worth less.

[Kluge]

Not offended, I definitely made a mistake and learned the hard way, luckily it didn't cost more than I was willing to lose. I've gotten a little better at it now.

Glad you're still with it. I thought you were saying that you aren't doing it anymore because you had to dump some. I figure that if I do have something I haven't eaten that's long past expired, I can cook it up for the dog.

[shane77m]

If the economy collapses wouldn't it be useless to save up cash? Isn't the whole point of a collapse is that money becomes worthless?

I am all for a collapse. It will get Sallie Mae out of my house.

[Kluge]

And stock up on heirloom seeds.

Yeah, definitely.

We had quite a drought this year, so I'll just add that folks need to think about a good, effective water catching system. I've already thought up a few designs for the place when we move. And if you're up North and have the land--a greenhouse.

ETA: And practice doing these things now.

[Kluge]

If the economy collapses wouldn't it be useless to save up cash? Isn't the whole point of a collapse is that money becomes worthless?

I am all for a collapse. It will get Sallie Mae out of my house.

Isn't it more likely that Sallie Mae will kick you out of your house?

[shane77m]

Isn't it more likely that Sallie Mae will kick you out of your house?

Sallie Mae is students loans. Fannie Mae is houses.

[Nickels]

Glad you're still with it. I thought you were saying that you aren't doing it anymore because you had to dump some. I figure that if I do have something I haven't eaten that's long past expired, I can cook it up for the dog.

oh my point was, better to prepare than not, better to waste $100 at worst based on poor planning, than to not have it when i might need it one day. And yeah, like I said, some people were willing to take the expired cans, they haven't told me they got sick yet ;)

[Nickels]

If the economy collapses wouldn't it be useless to save up cash? Isn't the whole point of a collapse is that money becomes worthless?

I am all for a collapse. It will get Sallie Mae out of my house.

No, collapse does not necessarily mean money becomes worthless. It just means the normal business isn't functioning. Money could either be everything, or nothing. Depending on the nature of the collapse. If businesses stop operating because there's a shortage of cash, cash is king. But if businesses continue operating and charge more for services, then cash is becoming worthless.

[PaulConventionWV]

I have to say I didn't like this article very much. Most of the answers seemed extremely generic to me, something that most people could figure out. It also didn't go into much detail. Also, he mentions a few things that I don't necessarily agree with. He says you shouldn't invest in stock, but he doesn't say why. It is pretty common knowledge that, over the almost a century that the stock market has been in existence, stock prices have gone up over the long run. The longer someone holds stock, the more likely it is that they will make a financial gain and also beat inflation. He really needs to explain why he thinks this is such a bad idea, other than saying he thinks he will look very smart in a few years for doing it. That doesn't answer anything.

Secondly, his opinion on rent vs. buy seems to show a little of his ignorance. Renting is just not a great way to live. He should have given much more credit to owning your own land free of rental bills. Mortgage bills are better because at least you are building equity, and the actual cost of the house won't go up. I am invested in property, and owning land is just one of the best things you can do because it means you will always have somewhere you can go regardless of your financial situation. Rent is paying for something you don't own, and in a financial collapse, to me, property is the most important thing you can have. What's more, rent can go up, whereas property, like precious metals, will retain much of its value without you paying anything.

I understand that there are many people who just can't afford to buy, and I also understand the need to move easily without making a commitment to a certain place. However, having land you can always go to far outweighs the versatility that comes with renting, especially in a financial collapse. I personally manage rental property, so I understand why many people want to rent. It's unfortunate that they can't afford better, but if you can afford to buy without being foreclosed on, you should. If you're trying to hoard cash, renting will not help at all because it builds no equity and soon just becomes a cash drain. Rental property, like any business, has overhead costs, and a bad economy can certainly cause prices to go up. I am trying to avoid renting at all costs because I really want to save up so I can get my own property. Renting will only hurt your chances of being able to do that in the future.

[John F Kennedy III]

If the economy collapses wouldn't it be useless to save up cash? Isn't the whole point of a collapse is that money becomes worthless?

I am all for a collapse. It will get Sallie Mae out of my house.

Switch as much cash as you can afford to to physical gold and silver. What I would really like to do if I ever get the cash in time is stock up on silver dimes. I think the smaller the denomination the better. You don't want to spend a gold coin on a loaf of bread simply because the store didn't have change.

http://www.midasresources.com/store/store_item.php?i=mercbagDimes

[Kluge]

Sallie Mae is students loans. Fannie Mae is houses.

Oops. Who named these things anyways?

[John F Kennedy III]

Yeah, definitely.

We had quite a drought this year, so I'll just add that folks need to think about a good, effective water catching system. I've already thought up a few designs for the place when we move. And if you're up North and have the land--a greenhouse.

ETA: And practice doing these things now.

Absolutely.

[Noble Savage]

#16 Skills

[shane77m]

Switch as much cash as you can afford to to physical gold and silver. What I would really like to do if I ever get the cash in time is stock up on silver dimes. I think the smaller the denomination the better. You don't want to spend a gold coin on a loaf of bread simply because the store didn't have change.

http://www.midasresources.com/store/store_item.php?i=mercbagDimes

I have an old quarter that is made out of silver. That is the extent of my silver and gold. If I had some disposable income to invest in it I might.

Currently my "prepping money" is going towards supplies for power outages and such. A few days without power is no fun.

I am not too worried about the getting out of debt part. If there is a collapse the bill collectors will have a hard time getting blood from a turnip. There will be a lot of people in the same boat so I think it is possible that the finance and credit card companies may not make it.

[shane77m]

Oops. Who named these things anyways?

I think the government did. That would explain a lot.

[Noble Savage]

#17 cover and concealment.

[Nickels]

I have to say I didn't like this article very much. Most of the answers seemed extremely generic to me, something that most people could figure out.


or he was writing to his own audience, tell people what they like to hear.



It also didn't go into much detail. Also, he mentions a few things that I don't necessarily agree with. He says you shouldn't invest in stock, but he doesn't say why.


I think he means, don't invest in things you don't know, and don't invest what you can't afford to lose.



It is pretty common knowledge that, over the almost a century that the stock market has been in existence, stock prices have gone up over the long run.


So has everything else.



The longer someone holds stock, the more likely it is that they will make a financial gain and also beat inflation. He really needs to explain why he thinks this is such a bad idea, other than saying he thinks he will look very smart in a few years for doing it. That doesn't answer anything.


How about, "if it only apprecaites due to inflation, it's not real earning" or "if nobody has cash to invest, this dries up with nothing physical to use as assets or liquidate as cash, and good luck getting bailed out"?



Secondly, his opinion on rent vs. buy seems to show a little of his ignorance. Renting is just not a great way to live.


I think renting is a good way to live in the system unfairly taxes owners or for some, it affords them flexibility, mobility and whatever works for them at the time.



He should have given much more credit to owning your own land free of bills. I am invested in property, and owning land is just one of the best things you can do because it means you will always have somewhere you can go regardless of your financial situation.


If you own it debt free, yes. But most people do not, so it's not "regardless of your financial situation. There's no shortage of empty land if you just want to "go" somewhere. It's being shelter indoors that people value most.



Rent is paying for something you don't own, and in a financial collapse, to me, property is the most important thing you can have. What's more, rent can go up, whereas property, like precious metals, will retain much of its value without you paying anything.


Yes, rent CAN go up, and that's the price you pay for the freedom of not owning. Owning and renting depends on lots of things. Property does not retain value if it needs repair, or is devalued by increasing supply, decreasing demand.



I understand that there are many people who just can't afford to buy, and I also understand the need to move easily without making a commitment to a certain place. However, having land you can always go to far outweighs the versatility that comes with renting, especially in a financial collapse. I personally manage rental property, so I understand why many people want to rent. It's unfortunate that they can't afford better, but if you can afford to buy without being foreclosed on, you should.


I don't think anybody disagrees with you. Nobody wants to rent something they can own if they can afford to own without debt.



If you're trying to hoard cash, renting will not help at all because it builds no equity and soon just becomes a cash drain. Rental property, like any business, has overhead costs, and a bad economy can certainly cause prices to go up. I am trying to avoid renting at all costs because I really want to save up so I can get my own property. Renting will only hurt your chances of being able to do that in the future.

No, renting does not hurt your chances , IF, it results in waiting on property value to decrease, while you are hoarding cash. You seem like most Americans, completely sold on the idea that property can never depreciate, so people buy houses they can't afford, why not? It'll never lose value. But it DOES, it CAN and it WILL every now and then. The assumption that "renting builds no equity" relies heavily on the notion that buyers will always win, that's just not true. You are not unaware of foreclosures, so what good is equity when you are being foreclosed?

[Noble Savage]

#18 shoot, move and communicate.

[Ender]

No offense, but you aren't storing correctly--only buy extra of what you'll eat in normal circumstances and rotate your stock. I'm creeped out by soy-based meat substitutes, so there's no point in me storing that, even if I do think I would eat it if I'm hungry and broke. Chances are that I'll have a better option and never eat it.

Worked in a food storage business my first 2 years of college and learned a ton.

The main principle of storage is "Eat what you store and store what you eat".

Keep your storage on a continual recycle and buy what you really eat and use- this way you won't have food items left on the shelf for years that become questionable because you bought them only for some future emergency.

BTW- I was agreeing with your post. ;)

[PaulConventionWV]

or he was writing to his own audience, tell people what they like to hear.

They still weren't very good answers. Just sayin'.


I think he means, don't invest in things you don't know, and don't invest what you can't afford to lose.

He specifically said that the stock market was not a good investment. That means, even if I know what I'm investing in, he would still advise against it. I think he needs to give some reasons for that answer. I would venture a guess that he knows something about stock, and yet he says he doesn't have a penny in it and we shouldn't either. I want to know why.


So has everything else.

That's beside the point.


How about, "if it only apprecaites due to inflation, it's not real earning" or "if nobody has cash to invest, this dries up with nothing physical to use as assets or liquidate as cash, and good luck getting bailed out"?

I already told you that, the longer someone invests in stock, the more likely they are to beat inflation. So, again, why shouldn't I invest? The stock market has always risen, and it has always beaten inflation over any significant amount of time of more than 10 years or so.


I think renting is a good way to live in the system unfairly taxes owners or for some, it affords them flexibility, mobility and whatever works for them at the time.

I get where you're coming from, but even property taxes aren't as likely to put you over the edge as renting. It is fairly easy to pay taxes if you pay off your home and own it outright. But, yes, I get your point. For some people, that seems like their most viable option. I still think it is better to own property because you won't be nearly as likely to be out on the street in case of a financial collapse.


If you own it debt free, yes. But most people do not, so it's not "regardless of your financial situation. There's no shortage of empty land if you just want to "go" somewhere. It's being shelter indoors that people value most.

The point is that, with a mortgage, you are building equity. Empty land can be built on, and whatever you build there will be yours as well. In most cases, building your own house is way cheaper than buying one. If you can find the time, it is a worthwhile investment to build something of your own. My disappointment with the article was that he doesn't seem to discuss the overwhelming advantages of owning land and/or a house and treats both as if they were equally desirable. Renting may be more practical for some people, but if you can help it, you should always strive to pay only for things you will own.


Yes, rent CAN go up, and that's the price you pay for the freedom of not owning. Owning and renting depends on lots of things. Property does not retain value if it needs repair, or is devalued by increasing supply, decreasing demand.

I know that market forces will always come into play, but property will ALWAYS have a significant amount of value, unlike the dollar. Again, it's just like precious metals. Of course there will be supply and demand, but property is always a desirable asset. Of course repairs have to be taken into account, but those usually don't drain your money supply just to have a roof over your head. Everyone knows that repairs are a factor, but it's really not that difficult to deal with if you take good care of the place. If you rent, there are so many rules that you have to follow, and there is always the danger of doing something to the owner's property that gets you in trouble. However, I will give you the fact that most laws and regulations on the housing market currently favor tenants over owners.


I don't think anybody disagrees with you. Nobody wants to rent something they can own if they can afford to own without debt.

I know most people here probably agree with me, but the aritcle doesn't even seem to care about the fact that owning is a much better option in case of a financial collapse, and it is something that people should strive for if even remotely possible. The article was discussing what to do in the event of a financial collapse, and it doesn't even stress the fact that owning property has a lot more advantages than disadvantages, especially when it comes to a financial collapse, which is specifically what the article was supposed to be dealing with.


No, renting does not hurt your chances , IF, it results in waiting on property value to decrease, while you are hoarding cash. You seem like most Americans, completely sold on the idea that property can never depreciate, so people buy houses they can't afford, why not? It'll never lose value. But it DOES, it CAN and it WILL every now and then. The assumption that "renting builds no equity" relies heavily on the notion that buyers will always win, that's just not true. You are not unaware of foreclosures, so what good is equity when you are being foreclosed?

I never said property can never depreciate. What I was mainly going for was, most people are pressed to get out of their parents' house by the tim they're 20. If you can stay in your parents' house rent-free, you should until you can own a place. If you do own, you have secured a place in the fluctuating market, so there's really no pressure to sell until you think the market is in a good position for you to do it. Unfortunately, with housing regulations, the market is keeping prices artificially low. I don't see how you can argue with the fact that renting builds no equity. You have no claim to the property if you rent. The buyer may not always win, but the buyer certainly does in this market if they are new or if they have kept up the property value by rennovating and improving it over the years. My point is that owning is always desirable, although I can understand why people would rent temporarily.

Owning just gives you so much more freedom to move around without stressing over the bill every monh and continuing to work a job you don't like just to keep up with the cost of living. Owning a house or land should always be in the cards. Renting for life, to me, severely decreases your ability to enjoy freedom in your life by doing what you want with your property, when you want, and moving around freely knowing you have a place to go back to and you don't have to work continuously just to pay for a roof over your head.

[Nickels]

They still weren't very good answers. Just sayin'.

He specifically said that the stock market was not a good investment. That means, even if I know what I'm investing in, he would still advise against it. I think he needs to give some reasons for that answer. I would venture a guess that he knows something about stock, and yet he says he doesn't have a penny in it and we shouldn't either. I want to know why.

That's beside the point.

I already told you that, the longer someone invests in stock, the more likely they are to beat inflation. So, again, why shouldn't I invest? The stock market has always risen, and it has always beaten inflation over any significant amount of time of more than 10 years or so.


By your logic, why shouldn't anybody/everybody? You seem so confident. You are like most Americans, who are highly confident that houses and stocks appreciate over time. So why not advise the government to bail out stock brokers and financial companies? Don't they know that the longer you hold on to it, the more likely you'll be inflation?



I get where you're coming from, but even property taxes aren't as likely to put you over the edge as renting. It is fairly easy to pay taxes if you pay off your home and own it outright. But, yes, I get your point. For some people, that seems like their most viable option. I still think it is better to own property because you won't be nearly as likely to be out on the street in case of a financial collapse.


Nobody wants to be out of the street, people do what they can afford to.



The point is that, with a mortgage, you are building equity. Empty land can be built on, and whatever you build there will be yours as well. In most cases, building your own house is way cheaper than buying one.


Which is why people keep building, and guess what? they stop making money as soon as they build more than people need.



If you can find the time, it is a worthwhile investment to build something of your own. My disappointment with the article was that he doesn't seem to discuss the overwhelming advantages of owning land and/or a house and treats both as if they were equally desirable.


I think because it's address the housing bubble, and the people who fell for it. There are LOTS OF advantages to owning things, as long as you can afford it and actually own it.



Renting may be more practical for some people, but if you can help it, you should always strive to pay only for things you will own.


Nobody disagrees with this. There are rare exceptions where the time and place makes it right, but for long term, nobody wants to not own something when they can own something.

[Nickels]

Owning just gives you so much more freedom to move around without stressing over the bill every monh and continuing to work a job you don't like just to keep up with the cost of living. Owning a house or land should always be in the cards. Renting for life, to me, severely decreases your ability to enjoy freedom in your life by doing what you want with your property, when you want, and moving around freely knowing you have a place to go back to and you don't have to work continuously just to pay for a roof over your head.

my experience tells me otherwise, but I've been on both sides, and I don't think I am typical. For me, renting represented flexibility, the one I need. Yes, moving is a pain and nobody likes it when landlord jacks up your rent. But overall, I consider myself to have saved more than I wasted. I still expect property values to decrease in the next few years, and who knows, maybe I will own.

[Natural Citizen]

Yeah, definitely.

We had quite a drought this year, so I'll just add that folks need to think about a good, effective water catching system. I've already thought up a few designs for the place when we move. And if you're up North and have the land--a greenhouse.

ETA: And practice doing these things now.

Was reading somewhere that a man got some jail time for collecting the governments rain water for his garden. Obviously in this silly state of reality where corporations are people too and get to be representative of, by and for themselves, Monsanto (a person, mind you, with all of the gifts of constitution) can't exactly be representative of, by and for themselves if you are using their water and eating from seeds that they don't control. Right? Because they are the government now it seems. They're people too. Right? It's their water. Apparently if some think otherwise they are off to the klink.

Now what?

You see, this is why we have to get the idea of citizenship and personhood straightened out, folks. Growth and survival? Two entirely different concepts completely contradictory of one another. And in the context of the guy in jail for collecting rain water it seems that growth...of the artificial entity...which (not whom...because monsanto doesn't eat and drink to exist) survives only by means of a pen stroke in some sock puppets office.....with the gift of constitution and all of the rights thereof...trumps that of survival....of the natural citizen....who cannot eat and drink "growth" to exist.

I don't know. Maybe off topic. Probably not though. What would our founding fathers have to say about all of this, I wonder?

[Kluge]

Was reading somewhere that a man got some jail time for collecting the governments rain water for his garden. Obviously in this silly state of reality where corporations are people too and get to be representative of, by and for themselves, Monsanto can't exactly be representative of, by and for themselves if you are using their water and eating from seeds that they don't control. Right? Because they are the government now. Not you. It's their water. Apparently if some think otherwise they are off to the klink.

Now what?

You see, this is why we have to get the idea of citizenship and personhood straightened out, folks. Growth and survival? Two entirely different concepts completely contradictory of one another. And in the context of the guy in jail for collecting rain water it seems that growth...of the artificial entity...with the gift of constitution and all of the rights thereof...trumps that of survival....of the natural citizen.

I don't know. Maybe off topic. Probably not though.

Not at all. I think the guy was in Washington state, but there are plenty of areas where it's "criminal" to collect rainwater. It's a damned good reason to be involved in local politics. You never know what they'll do at the federal level though--there was a thread not so long ago on one of Obama's EO's that afforded the president full control of all resources in case of a national emergency.

I don't have any delusions that if a truly hardcore situation arises that the deed to my property will mean diddly-squat. But it will, at least, have to be a genuinely majorly bad situation. But I'm banking on the chances of that being low.

[Tod]

And practice doing these things now.

Yes, best to get the learning curve out of the way while times are relatively easy. If you wait until things are really tough, you may find that you've waited too long and have a tougher time because of it. I've had a garden now for a couple years and it has been a learning experience, for sure. This year I'm going to try canning and next year I'm going to expand the garden, and probably again the year after that.

I'm finding that this stuff is actually pretty fun and satisfying, so it isn't like I'm doing something just for a doom-and-gloom scenario, I'm doing it for fun now! (munching on a juicy garden-fresh homegrown 'mater, wiping the juice off my chin)

[oyarde]

14 Questions People Ask About How To Prepare For The Collapse Of The Economy


Michael Snyder
Economic Collapse
Aug 8, 2012

How in the world is someone supposed to actually prepare for an economic collapse? What should you do with your money? How can you make sure that your family is going to be okay?


How can you prepare if your resources are extremely limited? These are the kinds of questions people ask me all the time. Once people understand that the economy has been collapsing and will continue to collapse, then the next step for most of them is that they want to get prepared for the storm that is coming. So where should someone get started? Well, the truth is that no two people are facing the exact same set of circumstances, so preparation is going to look different for each individual. But there are certain core principles that we can all benefit from. For example, when a financial storm is coming that is not the time to be blowing thousands of dollars on vacations and new toys. You would be surprised at how many people there are that claim that they have no extra money in their budgets and yet somehow have plenty of money to run down to Wal-Mart and buy a big stack of DVDs. When times are difficult, each hard-earned dollar becomes much more precious, and we all need to start getting into the habit of making the most out of our limited resources. The seemingly endless prosperity that we have all been enjoying for decades is coming to an end, and most of us have absolutely no experience on how to deal with truly hard times. If you are under the age of 60, it might be a really good idea to read a book or two on what conditions were like during the Great Depression of the 1930s. There is a lot that we can learn from our own history.

Another key characteristic that we will all need in the years ahead is flexibility. Anyone that has spent any time in the military knows that very few plans ever work out perfectly. As the global economy breaks down and the world becomes increasingly unstable, conditions are going to change rapidly. What might work really well in one situation might be the exact wrong thing to do 6 months later. If you are not willing or able to adapt to dramatic change then you are going to have a lot of difficulty in the years ahead.

Many people refer to me as a “doom and gloomer” because I run a website called “The Economic Collapse” and I am constantly pointing out that the entire world is heading for a complete and total financial nightmare.

But I don’t think that it does any good to stick your head in the sand. I believe that there is hope in understanding what is happening and I believe that there is hope in getting prepared.

It is those that are completely oblivious to what is really going on that will be totally blindsided by the coming crisis. When they finally realize what has come upon them many of them will totally lose it.

From my little spot on the wall I am trying my best to warn people so that they can have a chance to be prepared for what is coming.

I am not spreading doom and gloom.

I am spreading hope.

And I want to make another point. Generally, things are going to be getting progressively worse as the years roll along. As I have written about before, I believe that the economic collapse is not a single event. Rather, I see it as a series of waves that will be punctuated by moments of great crisis.

So advice about preparation is going to be different depending on whether you are talking about the short-term or the mid-term or the long-term. Hopefully you will keep that in mind as you read my answers to the questions below.

The following are common questions that people ask about how to prepare for the collapse of the economy….

#1 How Do I Get Started?

When the financial crisis of 2008 hit, what was the biggest danger for most Americans?

The biggest danger was that they would lose their jobs and not be able to pay their bills.

During the last recession, millions and millions of Americans did end up losing their jobs.

And because many of them were living paycheck to paycheck many of them also ended up losing their homes.

You do not want that to happen to you.

So what I am about to say next is not considered to be very “sexy” in prepper circles, but it is absolutely crucial advice.

You need to have an emergency fund saved up that can cover your expenses for at least six months.

That way if you lose your job or your business goes under you will be able to keep going for a while as you figure out what your next move will be.

These days it takes the average unemployed American nearly 40 weeks to find a new job, and it will likely be even worse in the next major economic downturn.

So make sure that you have plenty of cash saved up just in case. If you are currently living paycheck to paycheck you are extremely vulnerable.

#2 What Should I Do With My Money?

I get this question a lot.

People always want to know where they should put their money.

Well, my first piece of advice is always to build an emergency fund. See #1 above. Most people do not have one.

After that is done, I am a big believer in not putting all of my eggs into one basket.

Sometimes people will tell me that they are going to take all of their money out of the banks because they don’t feel safe having their money in them.

Well, if you stick all of your money in your mattress, what happens if there is a fire or what happens if someone robs you?

That is why I believe in spreading your risk around. Having money a bunch of different places is a good thing.

But one place I would not put it is in the stock market. If you were fortunate enough to catch the recent rally you should get out while the getting is good.

If you have blind faith in the stock market you are going to be deeply disappointed eventually. I do not have a single penny in the stock market, and a couple of years from now that is going to look like a very wise move.

#3 Should I Invest In Precious Metals?

A lot of people that write about the economic crisis in this country really advocate investing in precious metals because they tend to hold value over time (unlike fiat currencies).

I like precious metals myself, but if you are going to invest you need to get educated so that you know what you are doing. If you go in blindly you are likely to get burned at some point.

In addition, you need to be prepared for wild fluctuations in price over the coming years. There will be times when gold and silver absolutely soar and there will be times when they drop like a rock.

So if you are going to play the game you need to be able to handle the ride.

#4 Should I Get Out Of Debt?

Many that write about the coming economic collapse say that you shouldn’t even bother to pay off your debts because the financial system is going to collapse anyway.

I don’t see it that way.

I don’t believe that our banks are going to totally collapse and suddenly go out of existence.

Not in the short-term anyway.

So I believe that it is actually a good idea to get out of debt. When financial troubles hit you don’t want a horde of bill collectors coming after you.

There is a lot of freedom that comes with getting out of debt, and in this environment it is wise to become as independent of the system as possible.

#5 What If I Don’t Have Any Money To Prepare?

In this kind of economic environment it is no surprise that I get this question a lot.

Many families are just barely scraping by each month and they do not have much money to put into anything.

And I can definitely sympathize with that.

However, I would say that there are very, very few families out there that do not have anything that can be cut out of the budget.

The truth is that American families are experts at blowing money on really stupid stuff.

In general, I recommend that all families do what they can to reduce their expenses.

The smaller of a financial footprint you have, the better off you will be and the more resources you will have to help you get prepared.

Also, now is the time to be looking for ways that you can increase your income.

For many Americans, starting a side business is a way to bring in some extra cash. Yes, this will cut into your television watching time, but now is not the time to be lazy.

The time you spend working hard now while the sun is still shining will pay off later.

Don’t be afraid to work harder than you ever have before.

#6 Should I Rent Or Buy?

This is a question that I also get a lot, and it really depends on your situation.

If you rent, that gives you a lot more flexibility. You can move for a new job or a new opportunity without having to sell a house. And you get to avoid a lot of the expenses and hassles that come with being a homeowner.

If you buy, you get to “lock in” your housing expenses for many years. In a highly inflationary environment this would potentially be very beneficial. And interest rates are very low right now.

In addition, it is going to be really hard to rent a really good “prepper” property. If you are looking for a property that is away from the big cities where you can grow your own food and become more independent of the system, then in most cases you are going to have to buy such a property.

But if you do buy, it is going to be much harder to move if something does happen and you need to go somewhere else.

#7 What About My Health Condition?

Over the next few years, our health care system should continue operating at least somewhat normally. But the truth is that our health care system is in horrible shape and it is not a good thing to be totally dependent on pills and doctors.

Even if economic conditions were perfect it would be a good idea to learn what you can do on your own to improve your health. But this is especially true as we move into a time of great economic instability.

#8 Should I Be Storing Food?

Yes.

However, even though the United States is experiencing a historic drought right now, I do not believe that there will be major food shortages in America this year or next year.

Down the road, however, is a different story.

And your food dollars are never going to go farther than they do right now. As I wrote about the other day, this drought is likely to cause food prices to go up substantially, and so the food you store now might end up being twice as valuable a few years from now.

In addition, you never know when a major disaster or emergency is going to strike so it is always good to become more independent of the system.

I encourage everyone to learn how to grow a garden. Yes, your space may be limited, but there is actually one family that produces 6000 pounds of produce every year on just 1/10th of an acre right in the middle of Pasadena, California.

If they can do such extraordinary things with their little plot of land, why can’t you try to do what you can with what you have?

#9 Should I Be Storing Water?

It is always good to have some water on hand in case disaster or emergency strikes.

And you should be rotating whatever water you currently have on hand because you don’t want water sitting around indefinitely.

But what is much more important is to make sure that you and your family have access to a source of water that you can depend on if disaster strikes and the grid goes down.

In a previous article I discussed a report put out by the American Trucker Associations entitled “When Trucks Stop, America Stops” that detailed just how incredibly vulnerable our water supply really is….


According to the American Water Works Association, Americans drink more than one billion glasses of tap water per day. For safety and security reasons, most water supply plants maintain a larger inventory of supplies than the typical business. However, the amount of chemical storage varies significantly and is site specific. According to the Chlorine Institute, most water treatment facilities receive chlorine in cylinders (150 pounds and one ton cylinders) that are delivered by motor carriers. On average, trucks deliver purification chemicals to water supply plants every seven to 14 days. Without these chemicals, water cannot be purified and made safe for drinking. Without truck deliveries of purification chemicals, water supply plants will run out of drinkable water in 14 to 28 days. Once the water supply is drained, water will be deemed safe for drinking only when boiled. Lack of clean drinking water will lead to increased gastrointestinal and other illnesses, further taxing an already weakened healthcare system.

So yes, water is definitely something you should be accounting for in your preparations.

#10 Other Than Food And Water What Other Supplies Will I Need?


Anything that you use on a regular basis or that you would use in an emergency situation is something that you should consider storing up.

For example, if you could not buy any more toilet paper from the stores, what would you do?

Basic things like that are often overlooked by many preppers.

In a previous article, I listed dozens of things you may want to consider storing. Preparation is going to look different for every family, but hopefully that list will give you some ideas.

#11 What Happens If The Power Grid Goes Down?

This is a very important consideration – especially if you live in a colder climate.

Some people have a backup generator for such circumstances.

Others have set up wind and/or solar systems for their homes.

Alternative energy solutions are great if you can afford them, and they will enable you to become much more independent of the system.

But not everyone can afford to put in solar panels or a big wind turbine.

So do what you can with what you have.

#12 Should I Leave The Big Cities?

A lot of people ask me this, but there is no easy answer.

In this day and age, a good job is like gold. It can be really, really tough to give up a good job and move to the middle of nowhere.

But without a doubt, society is starting to come apart at the seams and I do expect rioting and major civil unrest in our major cities at some point in the future.

In the end, you need to do what is right for you and your own family. Nobody else can make this decision for you.

#13 Should I Get Some Self-Defense Training?

America seems to be overrun by psychopaths and sociopaths these days, and in such an environment being able to defend yourself becomes more important.

When criminals come to your home, they are not going to sit down and have a debate with you. They are not going to care what your political outlook is or if you sympathize with their plight.

The criminals are simply going to do what they came there to do unless someone stops them.

So yes, some self-defense training may come in very handy in the years ahead.

#14 What Should I Do If My Family And Friends Won’t Listen To Me?

This is another very common question that I get.

What should people do if nobody will listen to them?

Well, you just have to do the best that you can. If they won’t listen now, just keep planting seeds. Keep sending them articles that are packed with statistics and information that show why an economic collapse is going to happen.

In the years ahead we are all going to need our families and our friends because communities will endure what is coming much better than “lone wolf” individuals will be able to.

No matter how hard you prepare, at some point you are going to need the help of someone else.

So don’t be afraid to reach out to others.

If nobody among your family or friends will listen to you at the moment, you may have to prepare on your own right now.

In fact, you may have to do extra preparation because at some point it is probably inevitable that your family and friends will come to you for help.

That is the perspective that my wife and I take. We are not only preparing for ourselves. We are also preparing for the family members that may have to depend on us someday.

Nobody said that preparing was going to be easy.

But beyond any physical preparations, I also believe that it is absolutely crucial to prepare mentally and spiritually.

The times that are coming are going to be incredibly challenging. They are going to require a great deal of physical, mental, emotional and spiritual strength.

If you are a “lone wolf” that believes that you don’t need anyone or anything, then I feel sorry for you and I honestly don’t know how you are going to make it.

None of us have all the answers.

I know that I certainly do not.

I have just written nearly 3000 words, but after I post this article I know that some of the great visitors to my site will post ideas that I never even considered for this article.

We can all learn from each other. Most of the people that I have met that think “they know it all” are some of the most clueless people that I have ever come across.

I never want to stop learning, and hopefully that is the case for you as well.

If we work together, perhaps we can all make it through the horrible, horrible times that are coming.


original article here:
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/14-questions-people-ask-about-how-to-prepare-for-the-collapse-of-the-economy Well , #'s 1 , 2 , 3 , 5 , 8 , 9 , 11 , 12 , got that covered . Numbers 4 , 6 , 7 & 10 , Meh , #13 , LOL ;) , Yeah, had that covered for a helluva long time , #14 , already do .

[oyarde]

Was reading somewhere that a man got some jail time for collecting the governments rain water for his garden. Obviously in this silly state of reality where corporations are people too and get to be representative of, by and for themselves, Monsanto (a person, mind you, with all of the gifts of constitution) can't exactly be representative of, by and for themselves if you are using their water and eating from seeds that they don't control. Right? Because they are the government now it seems. They're people too. Right? It's their water. Apparently if some think otherwise they are off to the klink.

Now what?

You see, this is why we have to get the idea of citizenship and personhood straightened out, folks. Growth and survival? Two entirely different concepts completely contradictory of one another. And in the context of the guy in jail for collecting rain water it seems that growth...of the artificial entity...which (not whom...because monsanto doesn't eat and drink to exist) survives only by means of a pen stroke in some sock puppets office.....with the gift of constitution and all of the rights thereof...trumps that of survival....of the natural citizen....who cannot eat and drink "growth" to exist.

I don't know. Maybe off topic. Probably not though. What would our founding fathers have to say about all of this, I wonder? Rain , clearly does not belong to the govt ;) , it belongs to me , where I am , we do not dispute this ....

[Ender]

Well , #'s 1 , 2 , 3 , 5 , 8 , 9 , 11 , 12 , got that covered . Numbers 4 , 6 , 7 & 10 , Meh , #13 , LOL ;) , Yeah, had that covered for a helluva long time , #14 , already do .

#7 is meh?

That is the single most important prepping you can do.

If you can't walk a few miles carrying a kid- what are you going to do? What if you need to run?

[oyarde]

I don't think worrying about debt collector calls should be much of a concern in a collapse.

So pay off debt and become cash poor, or hoard cash as he recommends in bullet #2? I think there is a slight contradiction. I know the answer , available for three silver dimes ;)

[oyarde]

I just had to give away some of the canned foods I hoarded in 2008. Some people are comfortable eating expired cans, I wasted $100 max. But was going to last me about 2 weeks if I actually needed it. I don't consider food preparation alarmist or apacolyptic, maybe because I'm used to eating at home and know what it's like when power goes out. I would not worry about it , open it , smell it, taste it , I ate K rations from the Korean war in the mid 70's and early 80's .....

[Kluge]

If you can't walk a few miles carrying a kid- what are you going to do? What if you need to run?

I walked the entire perimeter of our new property carrying my very dense 1+ year-old...my back still hurts. I'll be doing some strength training after the move.

[roho76]

Switch as much cash as you can afford to to physical gold and silver. What I would really like to do if I ever get the cash in time is stock up on silver dimes. I think the smaller the denomination the better. You don't want to spend a gold coin on a loaf of bread simply because the store didn't have change.

http://www.midasresources.com/store/store_item.php?i=mercbagDimes

I bought 50 ounces of silver shot (used to make jewlery and other stuff) just for this reason. I figured it would come in handy one day for small purchases if thisgs go that route. If not I'll just have silver coins made up with my face on them. :)

[roho76]

I say land ownership is best. In any scenario where you have to leave your home whether rented or not who cares about whether you are breaking a lease or leaving your mortgage behind. The fact is you have to leave and in those circumstances, I doubt paying any sort of bill (even student loans) is going to be a top priority. At the very least, own some land where you can pitch a tent and grow some food and maybe raise some live stock. This is why procuring some land is of the utmost importance to me and building anything on it is secondary.

[Mundane]

Yeah, definitely.

We had quite a drought this year, so I'll just add that folks need to think about a good, effective water catching system. I've already thought up a few designs for the place when we move. And if you're up North and have the land--a greenhouse.

ETA: And practice doing these things now.

Done and done.

[jbauer]

If you've got canning questions let me know. We grow about 1/2 acer of food and eat it throughout the year, fresh when we can, canned when we can't. As you said it takes years to learn what you like what you don't like. You need knowlege on your area, the bugs you have, how to effectivly grow what you can in different environments.

The drought taught me that its better to over plan then under. We got things in very early this year and were some of the lucky ones who actually had a harvest.


Yes, best to get the learning curve out of the way while times are relatively easy. If you wait until things are really tough, you may find that you've waited too long and have a tougher time because of it. I've had a garden now for a couple years and it has been a learning experience, for sure. This year I'm going to try canning and next year I'm going to expand the garden, and probably again the year after that.

I'm finding that this stuff is actually pretty fun and satisfying, so it isn't like I'm doing something just for a doom-and-gloom scenario, I'm doing it for fun now! (munching on a juicy garden-fresh homegrown 'mater, wiping the juice off my chin)

[Ender]

I walked the entire perimeter of our new property carrying my very dense 1+ year-old...my back still hurts. I'll be doing some strength training after the move.

Good for you! That 1 year old is more important than anything you own and if you have to run with that tyke, strength and health is primary.

[Ender]

I say land ownership is best. In any scenario where you have to leave your home whether rented or not who cares about whether you are breaking a lease or leaving your mortgage behind. The fact is you have to leave and in those circumstances, I doubt paying any sort of bill (even student loans) is going to be a top priority. At the very least, own some land where you can pitch a tent and grow some food and maybe raise some live stock. This is why procuring some land is of the utmost importance to me and building anything on it is secondary.

Just remember that as long as the gov is in control, nobody really owns their property. Stop paying taxes and the real owner will show up and take what you have deemed as yours.

[oyarde]

#7 is meh?

That is the single most important prepping you can do.

If you can't walk a few miles carrying a kid- what are you going to do? What if you need to run? Been fortunate I guess , no concerns with number 7.

[1stAmendguy]

I've heard of the simple slogan for preparedness: the "two G's", Gold and Guns. Easy to remember.:p

[Mundane]

I've heard of the simple slogan for preparedness: the "two G's", Gold and Guns. Easy to remember.:p

I'd add another G to that - Garden.

[1stAmendguy]

I'd add another G to that - Garden.

Nice and maybe for Christians God too.

[NickOdell]

I don't want to derail your guys' thread, but I also don't want to start a new thread all about me, and this is mostly on-topic.

I want to prepare for 'the' collapse/hyper-inflation/doomsday/whatever you want to call it, and I'd like some input.

I'm 17, will be a high school senior this year, live with my parents, earn minimum wage working part time, and going to college in the Fall of 2013.

I have some disposable income - my car insurance/gas is about $200 a month (my only living expenses right now), and I make roughly $800 a month.

I definitely have some expenses coming up in the near future (college) that I will need cash on hand for (versus an investment/hedge of some sort), but I think I have some money to start building a hedge, considering I will probably get a near full-ride scholarship to a couple of the colleges I'm applying to (thank God for good grades/test scores).

What advice would you give to someone in my position who has nothing as a hedge currently? I found a PM 'dealer' in my area that I'm considering buying 10oz silver bars from, http://www.ajpm.com/silver-bullion.html, maybe once a month. That's probably better than nothing, right?

One of my other ideas was opening an account at Scottrade, minimum deposit to open is $500, and investing in some various mining companies.

What do you all think? A combination of the two?

Thanks and sorry this is a little off-topic

-Nick

[John F Kennedy III]

I don't want to derail your guys' thread, but I also don't want to start a new thread all about me, and this is mostly on-topic.

I want to prepare for 'the' collapse/hyper-inflation/doomsday/whatever you want to call it, and I'd like some input.

I'm 17, will be a high school senior this year, live with my parents, earn minimum wage working part time, and going to college in the Fall of 2013.

I have some disposable income - my car insurance/gas is about $200 a month (my only living expenses right now), and I make roughly $800 a month.

I definitely have some expenses coming up in the near future (college) that I will need cash on hand for (versus an investment/hedge of some sort), but I think I have some money to start building a hedge, considering I will probably get a near full-ride scholarship to a couple of the colleges I'm applying to (thank God for good grades/test scores).

What advice would you give to someone in my position who has nothing as a hedge currently? I found a PM 'dealer' in my area that I'm considering buying 10oz silver bars from, http://www.ajpm.com/silver-bullion.html, maybe once a month. That's probably better than nothing, right?

One of my other ideas was opening an account at Scottrade, minimum deposit to open is $500, and investing in some various mining companies.

What do you all think? A combination of the two?

Thanks and sorry this is a little off-topic

-Nick

Bump ^

[oyarde]

I don't want to derail your guys' thread, but I also don't want to start a new thread all about me, and this is mostly on-topic.

I want to prepare for 'the' collapse/hyper-inflation/doomsday/whatever you want to call it, and I'd like some input.

I'm 17, will be a high school senior this year, live with my parents, earn minimum wage working part time, and going to college in the Fall of 2013.

I have some disposable income - my car insurance/gas is about $200 a month (my only living expenses right now), and I make roughly $800 a month.

I definitely have some expenses coming up in the near future (college) that I will need cash on hand for (versus an investment/hedge of some sort), but I think I have some money to start building a hedge, considering I will probably get a near full-ride scholarship to a couple of the colleges I'm applying to (thank God for good grades/test scores).

What advice would you give to someone in my position who has nothing as a hedge currently? I found a PM 'dealer' in my area that I'm considering buying 10oz silver bars from, http://www.ajpm.com/silver-bullion.html, maybe once a month. That's probably better than nothing, right?

One of my other ideas was opening an account at Scottrade, minimum deposit to open is $500, and investing in some various mining companies.

What do you all think? A combination of the two?

Thanks and sorry this is a little off-topic

-Nick I suggest smaller quantities , go with dimes , halves and dollars , worst case , you want to barter for something you need ( not something you want ) , that will cover it easily.

[oyarde]

The Canadian mint also sells small gold coins, half gram , and 1/25th ounce . There is also some very small , affordable Japanese gold two Shu bars from about the 1830's to 1860's's that are silver , gold mix, probably pick them up around $60 ea or there abouts , from the time of the Samarai , probably run around 1.6 / 1.7 grams ...Pm me if you need ideas or a honest dealer for 90 % silver or Silver Eagles , I can send you my guy's phone number.He is , flat out best guy in the business, I have been all over the world , done business with him ( sold & bought ) for , at least , probably , currently , your life span . Good Luck young Man , glad to see you thinking ahead !

[NickOdell]

I suggest smaller quantities , go with dimes , halves and dollars , worst case , you want to barter for something you need ( not something you want ) , that will cover it easily.

Good point, because everything you want to buy won't require 10oz of silver. Food for the day may only cost a half ounce (or something like that).

That being said, the collapse should trigger a massive sell-off of stocks, but would that include mining stocks? Wouldn't those companies almost benefit because of the rising nominal price of precious metals?

I almost think mining stocks would be nearly as safe of a hedge as precious metals, besides the fact that you don't physically own it, and you can't barter with it. Do you think mining stocks would do well during hyper-inflation?

[wgadget]

I say land ownership is best. In any scenario where you have to leave your home whether rented or not who cares about whether you are breaking a lease or leaving your mortgage behind. The fact is you have to leave and in those circumstances, I doubt paying any sort of bill (even student loans) is going to be a top priority. At the very least, own some land where you can pitch a tent and grow some food and maybe raise some live stock. This is why procuring some land is of the utmost importance to me and building anything on it is secondary.

Yes, and away from the madding crowd.

[pcosmar]

-Nick

Learn trades and crafts.. Stuff that will be useful to the community.
Some good Firearm training would not hurt.

Best of luck in a thoroughly fuck up world.

[oyarde]

Learn trades and crafts.. Stuff that will be useful to the community.
Some good Firearm training would not hurt.

Best of luck in a thoroughly fuck up world. Pete makes a good point , if you have a welder , a generator , and can use it ,etc. , you may well be able to trade some of your work out for some things you need.

[heavenlyboy34]

Well, if you stick all of your money in your mattress, what happens if there is a fire or what happens if someone robs you?
That's why they invented fireproof safes, Mr Author. ;)

[heavenlyboy34]

Nice and maybe for Christians God too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCpwMQ8cRRc (pretend this isn't a nationalist war song ;) )

[oyarde]

That's why they invented fireproof safes, Mr Author. ;) I have one of those , it is open and empty ;) , decoy , anyone who knows me would expect it to be booby trapped anyway ;)

[heavenlyboy34]

I have one of those , it is open and empty ;) , decoy , anyone who knows me would expect it to be booby trapped anyway ;)
Have you caught many boobies yet? :D;)

[oyarde]

Have you caught many boobies yet? :D;) LOL , LOL

[John F Kennedy III]

Good point, because everything you want to buy won't require 10oz of silver. Food for the day may only cost a half ounce (or something like that).

That being said, the collapse should trigger a massive sell-off of stocks, but would that include mining stocks? Wouldn't those companies almost benefit because of the rising nominal price of precious metals?

I almost think mining stocks would be nearly as safe of a hedge as precious metals, besides the fact that you don't physically own it, and you can't barter with it. Do you think mining stocks would do well during hyper-inflation?

This is why I would like to get ahold of silver dimes. If I had the money I would like to have at least 3-4 sets of these:

http://www.midasresources.com/store/store_item.php?i=mercbagDimes

But if you can find someone that sells less than 1,000 at a time it could be a good way to gradually stock up without having to have $3,000 each time.

The reason I prefer dimes is because it is the lowest denomination (in terms of size, not the value printed on it). I'd rather spend a few silver dimes than get stuck spending a piece of gold and not getting change back because it was the lowest denomination I had.

[heavenlyboy34]

LOL , LOL :D
Now you have to wonder which kind of booby I meant there...

http://www.mondoadventuretravel.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Blue-footed-Booby.jpg Or http://images.paraorkut.com/img/funnypics/images/b/booby_trap-13315.jpg

[heavenlyboy34]

This is why I would like to get ahold of silver dimes. If I had the money I would like to have at least 3-4 sets of these:

http://www.midasresources.com/store/store_item.php?i=mercbagDimes

But if you can find someone that sells less than 1,000 at a time it could be a good way to gradually stock up without having to have $3,000 each time.

The reason I prefer dimes is because it is the lowest denomination (in terms of size, not the value printed on it). I'd rather spend a few silver dimes than get stuck spending a piece of gold and not getting change back because it was the lowest denomination I had.
FWIW, silver dimes are pretty affordable over at Amazon. :)

[John F Kennedy III]

FWIW, silver dimes are pretty affordable over at Amazon. :)

Thanks. It's true :)

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=silver+dimes

[Danke]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPvn9rGYx6g&feature=related
I have one of those , it is open and empty ;) , decoy , anyone who knows me would expect it to be booby trapped anyway ;)

[Tod]

If you've got canning questions let me know. Will do, although hopefully family members will be able to help teach me too. Thanks!

[heavenlyboy34]

I don't want to derail your guys' thread, but I also don't want to start a new thread all about me, and this is mostly on-topic.

I want to prepare for 'the' collapse/hyper-inflation/doomsday/whatever you want to call it, and I'd like some input.

I'm 17, will be a high school senior this year, live with my parents, earn minimum wage working part time, and going to college in the Fall of 2013.

I have some disposable income - my car insurance/gas is about $200 a month (my only living expenses right now), and I make roughly $800 a month.

I definitely have some expenses coming up in the near future (college) that I will need cash on hand for (versus an investment/hedge of some sort), but I think I have some money to start building a hedge, considering I will probably get a near full-ride scholarship to a couple of the colleges I'm applying to (thank God for good grades/test scores).

What advice would you give to someone in my position who has nothing as a hedge currently? I found a PM 'dealer' in my area that I'm considering buying 10oz silver bars from, http://www.ajpm.com/silver-bullion.html, maybe once a month. That's probably better than nothing, right?

One of my other ideas was opening an account at Scottrade, minimum deposit to open is $500, and investing in some various mining companies.

What do you all think? A combination of the two?

Thanks and sorry this is a little off-topic

-Nick
New buyers should stick to bullion coins instead of bars, IMO. (easily recognizable types such as silver eagles) Junk silver is good to have on hand, too. :):)

[oyarde]

Good point, because everything you want to buy won't require 10oz of silver. Food for the day may only cost a half ounce (or something like that).

That being said, the collapse should trigger a massive sell-off of stocks, but would that include mining stocks? Wouldn't those companies almost benefit because of the rising nominal price of precious metals?

I almost think mining stocks would be nearly as safe of a hedge as precious metals, besides the fact that you don't physically own it, and you can't barter with it. Do you think mining stocks would do well during hyper-inflation? I think , probably not . Mining of any kind is high overhead . Here is what I have found , reading over the years . Stock market crashes , 1929 . Lets move to 1932 , because that is when it finally bottomed out , not to fully recover until 1954 . Looking at the period of 1932 to 1954 at all the top 50 performers through those worst years before WW 2 AND beyond. Of the fifteen that may be graded best overall ,about, twelve still exist in some form. One of those is now Danaher , who made mining equipment , if I was you , maybe look into that , here are three others from that time span that performed well and still exist ;General Dynamics ( GD) , the company that is now Norfolk Southern (NSC) , the company now Chevron ( CVX , I think ) . The other eight are Borgwarner (BWA) , International Paper & Power (IP ) , AND THESE ( I would not touch, do not know enough about them ,NOW and the last four do not seem depression proof to me right off the top of my head ) now NL Industries (NL) , FMC Corp, the company now Boeing ( BA) , now Unisys (UIS) , now CVS (CVS) , Honeywell (HON) . IF YOU HAVE A GOOD FEELING ABOUT MINING , I MAY THINK ABOUT WHO THEY HAVE TO BUY FROM INSTEAD , WINNERS WILL STILL BUY , this way you are not invested in any losers ... a few years ago my Daughter asked me for some help , market was tanked , I helped her into a bunch of General Dynamics , at the time , I could not find any thing else I had confidence in for my Little Girl. I love my Girls :) , my boys are heathens for the most part :) , they are just my Militia :).

[oyarde]

So , I guess , my assesment of mining stocks , currently would be , find out everything they have to use , who they buy it from and try some of that . This cuts you out of the loser pile , better , hopefully ..... I am a physical guy myself ...

[NickOdell]

New buyers should stick to bullion coins instead of bars, IMO. (easily recognizable types such as silver eagles) Junk silver is good to have on hand, too. :):)

Why are coins better? Besides being a smaller denomination.


I think , probably not . Mining of any kind is high overhead . Here is what I have found , reading over the years . Stock market crashes , 1929 . Lets move to 1932 , because that is when it finally bottomed out , not to fully recover until 1954 . Looking at the period of 1932 to 1954 at all the top 50 performers through those worst years before WW 2 AND beyond. Of the fifteen that may be graded best overall ,about, twelve still exist in some form. One of those is now Danaher , who made mining equipment , if I was you , maybe look into that , here are three others from that time span that performed well and still exist ;General Dynamics ( GD) , the company that is now Norfolk Southern (NSC) , the company now Chevron ( CVX , I think ) . The other eight are Borgwarner (BWA) , International Paper & Power (IP ) , AND THESE ( I would not touch, do not know enough about them ,NOW and the last four do not seem depression proof to me right off the top of my head ) now NL Industries (NL) , FMC Corp, the company now Boeing ( BA) , now Unisys (UIS) , now CVS (CVS) , Honeywell (HON) . IF YOU HAVE A GOOD FEELING ABOUT MINING , I MAY THINK ABOUT WHO THEY HAVE TO BUY FROM INSTEAD , WINNERS WILL STILL BUY , this way you are not invested in any losers ... a few years ago my Daughter asked me for some help , market was tanked , I helped her into a bunch of General Dynamics , at the time , I could not find any thing else I had confidence in for my Little Girl. I love my Girls :) , my boys are heathens for the most part :) , they are just my Militia :).


So , I guess , my assesment of mining stocks , currently would be , find out everything they have to use , who they buy it from and try some of that . This cuts you out of the loser pile , better , hopefully ..... I am a physical guy myself ...

Interesting idea. I wonder if there really would be that significant of a difference in the performance of mining companies vs their suppliers. It seems to me that they would be somewhat linked.

I'm thinking of going with more physical assets than stocks, too; was just curious if anyone else thought mining stocks might be an exception to a general crash in stocks during hyper-inflation?

[oyarde]

Why are coins better? Besides being a smaller denomination.





Interesting idea. I wonder if there really would be that significant of a difference in the performance of mining companies vs their suppliers. It seems to me that they would be somewhat linked.

I'm thinking of going with more physical assets than stocks, too; was just curious if anyone else thought mining stocks might be an exception to a general crash in stocks during hyper-inflation? Coins are harder to fake and the fakes are easier to tell.

[oyarde]

Why are coins better? Besides being a smaller denomination.





Interesting idea. I wonder if there really would be that significant of a difference in the performance of mining companies vs their suppliers. It seems to me that they would be somewhat linked.

I'm thinking of going with more physical assets than stocks, too; was just curious if anyone else thought mining stocks might be an exception to a general crash in stocks during hyper-inflation? I think they would be linked too , but they will not all make it , best supplier will ( hence , why Danaher performed while others did not ... )