Can You Handle The Chance That We Might End Up With President Romney?

[trey4sports]

Look, i really believe that BO is going to win in November but ya know he is an unpopular president whos facing a very slick political rival. There is a very good chance we could end up with President Romney.

So obviously the plan is that if BO wins we start prepping for Rand Paul 2016.

However, what is our plan in Mitt wins in '12? Are we going to try and just focus on Congress, and electing the folks we believe in and trying to push legislation that is liberty friendly? Or do we work on trying to get an independent/democratic candidate in line for '16?

[matt0611]

Romney won't win IMO, its 4 more years of BHO, its for the best really. If Romney wins it will mean at least 8 more years until we can get a decent President instead of 4.

[NIU Students for Liberty]

Before people start jumping on Rand's bandwagon, they should wait a few more years to see if he puts fourth a consistent record in the senate (especially foreign policy).

[asurfaholic]

Look, i really believe that BO is going to win in November but ya know he is an unpopular president whos facing a very slick political rival. There is a very good chance we could end up with President Romney.

So obviously the plan is that if BO wins we start prepping for Rand Paul 2016.

However, what is our plan in Mitt wins in '12? Are we going to try and just focus on Congress, and electing the folks we believe in and trying to push legislation that is liberty friendly? Or do we work on trying to get an independent/democratic candidate in line for '16?
Trying to get a independent or democrat would be more of a waste of resources than is necessary. We should primarily ficus on house and senate races, as well as local activism to remind voters that Romney is no different than Obama. I am still an apprentice to the liberty movement but I try to vocalize what I know to those willing to listen. Keeping this up ,and learning as much as i can,is my personal goal.

[Origanalist]

Why wouldn't I? I have already handled 8 years of George Bush, the repubs nominating John McCain and going on 4 years of Obama.

What's another deep disapointment?

[cindy25]

why is everyone assuming Rand will run in 2016? his senate seat is up, and unlike a house seat it would be impossible to run for president and senator at the same time.

and why would Rand do any better in Iowa than Ron did? Santorum or Huck or whoever is Romney's VP choice will be there.

I really think the GOP is impossible.

[pcosmar]

They will win the war with Iran in 3 weeks max. :rolleyes:

Then every thing will be rosy rainbows.

or not.

[trey4sports]

why is everyone assuming Rand will run in 2016? his senate seat is up, and unlike a house seat it would be impossible to run for president and senator at the same time.

and why would Rand do any better in Iowa than Ron did? Santorum or Huck or whoever is Romney's VP choice will be there.

I really think the GOP is impossible.

because he has said many times he wants to be in the national conversation. Rand has subtly let people know that he will be running in 2016 if the opportunity presents itself.

[ZENemy]

I really...don't....think....it....matters

Whichever one wins, we the people, lose.

[anaconda]

There is a very good chance we could end up with President Romney.


I understand Mittens has raised more $$$ than Soetoro for three months straight now. There is concern at MoveOn.org that Mittens will outspend Soetoro by 2:1. This seems very significant to me, and a big turnabout from the narrative from a few months back, when Soetoro was supposed to crush Mittens in fund raising.

[thoughtomator]

Romney, Obama, what's the difference?

[ZENemy]

Romney, Obama, what's the difference?

Well, 0bama smokes cigarettes and R0mney does not.

[ronpaulfollower999]

Four more years of another statist POS…who really cares anymore?

[anaconda]

I really...don't....think....it....matters

Whichever one wins, we the people, lose.

Makes Rand Paul's game strategy quite different I would imagine. There are some that think Rand will actually have a better chance in 2016 if Mittens wins in 2012, by making an intraparty hostile challenge to the incumbent. Whether it's Obama or Romney from 2013 to Jan. 2017, either will likely have miserable approval ratings by 2016.

[Drex]

I can't wait till Rmoney loses, maybe those Neo-cons will realize that Bush, McCan't and Rmoney aren't good

[trey4sports]

Makes Rand Paul's game strategy quite different I would imagine. There are some think Rand will actually have a better chance in 2016 if Mittens wins in 2012, by making an intraparty hostile challenge to the incumbent. Whether it's Obama or Romney from 2013 to Jan. 2017, either will likely have miserable approval ratings by 2016.


yeah, exactly.


Jesus Christ people it makes a big difference as to how we play the game. Ya know why we dont get shit done? Because you just fuckin' say "ohh, yeah, doesn't matter." Yeah, it makes a big difference as to how we work to get things done!!!

[ZENemy]

Makes Rand Paul's game strategy quite different I would imagine. There are some think Rand will actually have a better chance in 2016 if Mittens wins in 2012, by making an intraparty hostile challenge to the incumbent. Whether it's Obama or Romney from 2013 to Jan. 2017, either will likely have miserable approval ratings by 2016.

Perhaps.

Sounds like more polished-tricks to me, but here's hoping.











Personally I think an E.O will be signed that will put O' in a position that would keep him at his post.

[ZENemy]

yeah, exactly.


Jesus Christ people it makes a big difference as to how we play the game. Ya know why we dont get shit done? Because you just fuckin' say "ohh, yeah, doesn't matter." Yeah, it makes a big difference as to how we work to get things done!!!

Really? THAT'S why we don't get shit done? Its not because of big money, big government, establishment only, 2 party system or fuck you bullshit? In 30 years Ron Paul didnt get anything done because he didn't know how to "work" the system? Or is it because 99% of those around him were scumbags?

It makes a difference how we play that game? Im waiting for those differences and those changes. How longs it been? 200 years now?

[AuH20]

If Rand can integrate Pat Buchanan's wildly successful populist based America First platform into his own, he can beat anyone in 2016. America is going to be angry and coming off a severe Obama hangover. The whole GOP field headed into 2016 is bland and uninteresting. Rubio is the only true threat because of his appealing appearance and his ethnicity, but he is incredibly vulnerable like Perry for being a phony. Rubio's fundamental problem is that his actions don't meet his rhetoric. I'm confident over the long haul, Rand is one to beat.

[trey4sports]

Really? THAT'S why we don't get shit done? Its not because of big money, big government, establishment only, 2 party system or fuck you bullshit? In 30 years Ron Paul didnt get anything done because he didn't know how to "work" the system? Or is it because 99% of those around him were scumbags?

It makes a difference how we play that game? Im waiting for those differences and those changes. How longs it been? 200 years now?


yes, we don't get shit done because everyone sits in a fucking libertarian circle-jerk and debates mindless differences.

Then, when it comes time to actually plan out our next moves no one can do jack shit besides say "it doesn't even matter." Instead, they would prefer to conjure up delusions that somehow, someway, no planning will help or that a mythical 100% libertarian will ride in on a white horse and convert every neocon into a libertarian.

[pcosmar]

either will likely have miserable approval ratings by 2016.

What makes anyone believe they will be asking approval in 2016?

[trey4sports]

Really? THAT'S why we don't get shit done? Its not because of big money, big government, establishment only, 2 party system or fuck you bullshit? In 30 years Ron Paul didnt get anything done because he didn't know how to "work" the system? Or is it because 99% of those around him were scumbags?

It makes a difference how we play that game? Im waiting for those differences and those changes. How longs it been? 200 years now?


really? We have elected the most libertarian leaning senator in the last 50 years and even 3 or 4 pretty hardline libertarian US Reps in the last 5 years and you don't see a difference...?

[AuH20]

yes, we don't get shit done because everyone sits in a fucking libertarian circle-jerk and debates mindless differences.

Then, when it comes time to actually plan out our next moves no one can do jack shit besides say "it doesn't even matter." Instead, they would prefer to conjure up delusions that somehow, someway, no planning will help or that a mythical 100% libertarian will ride in on a white horse and convert every neocon into a libertarian.

It's called circular based theorycraft and the professional libertarians are paralyzed by it. Rand Paul is going to be rounding third base, before they collectively come to a consensus on the color of the drapes. :)

[Aratus]

if we bolt and go 3rd party or "indy" we may
only simply be re-electing our sitting POTUS

[Ender]

Romney, Obama, what's the difference?

2nd verse, same as the 1st.

[ZENemy]

yes, we don't get shit done because everyone sits in a fucking libertarian circle-jerk and debates mindless differences.

Then, when it comes time to actually plan out our next moves no one can do jack shit besides say "it doesn't even matter." Instead, they would prefer to conjure up delusions that somehow, someway, no planning will help or that a mythical 100% libertarian will ride in on a white horse and convert every neocon into a libertarian.

Ok, I can agree with that.

On the flip side...

There are so many INCREDIBLY hard working people in this movement, I have 100 channels on youtube, all these guys do is eat/sleep/breath ron paul even up till this point right now. I have never, EVER seen such hard working people even in the face of absolute oppression of our ideas and theory's. The only signs Ive ever seen were Ron Paul signs. The only rally that had 5000 people was Ron Pauls. There are tons of hard workers in this movement, I do NOT believe that the grassroots movement is the problem, its the already, in place two party jerk off station.

[cindy25]

Romney, Obama, what's the difference?

Congressional Republicans grow a backbone with President Obama (Congressional Dems never have backbone i.e Patriot Act)

[cindy25]

if we bolt and go 3rd party or "indy" we may
only simply be re-electing our sitting POTUS

but it could stop the GOP from nominating RINOs

[Bastiat's The Law]

why is everyone assuming Rand will run in 2016? his senate seat is up, and unlike a house seat it would be impossible to run for president and senator at the same time.

and why would Rand do any better in Iowa than Ron did? Santorum or Huck or whoever is Romney's VP choice will be there.

I really think the GOP is impossible.
Why do you think Thomas Massie winning was so critical. Massie could be the heir to Rand's Senate seat in 2016. We'll need a liberty candidate to step up to fill Massie's House seat, but these are good problems to have. Our people are climbing the ladder.

[pcosmar]

if we bolt and go 3rd party or "indy" we may
only simply be re-electing our sitting POTUS

So..??
What is the difference?

Romney will do everything Obama has done,, and worse.

Well,,Obama has been hesitant on attacking Iran.. Romney will jump at the chance.

[pcosmar]

2nd verse, same as the 1st.

A little bit louder, a little bit worse.

[Bastiat's The Law]

If Rand can integrate Pat Buchanan's wildly successful populist based America First platform into his own, he can beat anyone in 2016. America is going to be angry and coming off a severe Obama hangover. The whole GOP field headed into 2016 is bland and uninteresting. Rubio is the only true threat because of his appealing appearance and his ethnicity, but he is incredibly vulnerable like Perry for being a phony. Rubio's fundamental problem is that his actions don't meet his rhetoric. I'm confident over the long haul, Rand is one to beat.
Buchanan is an interesting figure and connected well with evangelicals, but he was also a staunch protectionist on trade. That's a night and day difference with the Pauls. I agree that America will have a bad Obama hangover especially republicans, they will be even more open to a conservative alternative than ever before. Have you heard Rubio speak? The dude is a light weight intellectually and hasn't been at the forefront fighting for smaller government...Rand Paul will eat him for breakfast. I know Fox News and other outlets fawn over Rubio, like he's this conservative messiah, but there's little substance there and even less of a record. I can't really see anybody in the field that can stand up to Rand intellectually, campaign style, charisma, conservative bona-fides, and experience (health care). Rand's only "weakness" might be foreign policy experience. Maybe we could find a VP with military experience.

I agree with you that Rubio will be exposed like Perry in any debate with Rand. The emperor has no clothes.

[Bastiat's The Law]

yes, we don't get shit done because everyone sits in a fucking libertarian circle-jerk and debates mindless differences.

Then, when it comes time to actually plan out our next moves no one can do jack shit besides say "it doesn't even matter." Instead, they would prefer to conjure up delusions that somehow, someway, no planning will help or that a mythical 100% libertarian will ride in on a white horse and convert every neocon into a libertarian.
At some point the rubber has to meet the road. I'm glad we're getting away from theoretical libertarian circle jerks and actually running our candidates in the GOP and WINNING!

http://cmsimg.detnews.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=C3&Date=20120808&Category=POLITICS01&ArtNo=208080367&Ref=AR&Profile=1409&MaxW=640&Border=0

[Bastiat's The Law]

if we bolt and go 3rd party or "indy" we may
only simply be re-electing our sitting POTUS
We'd also be going the way of every defunct third party movement. We've seen that play out with the Reform party and others. Remember, the debates are what put Ron Paul on the map, especially his clash with Rudy Giuliani. Those moments aren't possible in third parties because you're not invited to nationally televised debates, you end hosting yours at the local Olive Garden. Political Antarctica.

[AuH20]

Buchanan is an interesting figure and connected well with evangelicals, but he was also a staunch protectionist on trade. That's a night and day difference with the Pauls. I agree that America will have a bad Obama hangover especially republicans, they will be even more open to a conservative alternative than ever before. Have you heard Rubio speak? The dude is a light weight intellectually and hasn't been at the forefront fighting for smaller government...Rand Paul will eat him for breakfast. I know Fox News and other outlets fawn over Rubio, like he's this conservative messiah, but there's little substance there and even less of a record. I can't really see anybody in the field that can stand up to Rand intellectually, campaign style, charisma, conservative bona-fides, and experience (health care). Rand's only "weakness" might be foreign policy experience. Maybe we could find a VP with military experience.

I agree with you that Rubio will be exposed like Perry in any debate with Rand. The emperor has no clothes.

Buchanan struck a chord with the disenfranchised middle class, especially those in Middle America who are consistently maligned by the elites on the coasts. He spoke truth to power in condemning them for their power-hungry schemes in such a bombastic fashion. Rand doesn't have to be as fiery as Pat but he needs to carry that timeless message to the masses.

The contempt and anger is just boiling over in many states. These people pay for the welfare state, send their sons and daughters to die for whatever geopolitical flavor of the week and are continuously degraded as the "unsophisticated" scapegoats for the massive problems this country faces. It's time to strike back and proverbially kick down some doors. The people are waiting for the shepherd to coalesce around.

[Bastiat's The Law]

Buchanan struck a chord with the disenfranchised middle class, especially those in Middle America who are consistently maligned by the elites on the coasts. He spoke truth to power in condemning them for their power-hungry schemes in such a bombastic fashion. Rand doesn't have to be as fiery as Pat but he needs to carry that timeless message to the masses.

The contempt and anger is just boiling over in many states. These people pay for the welfare state, send their sons and daughters to die for whatever geopolitical flavor of the week and are continuously degraded as the "unsophisticated" scapegoats for the massive problems this country faces. It's time to strike back and proverbially kick down some doors. The people are waiting for the shepherd to coalesce around.
I agree with that. I think Rand's style and personal charm will win over the majority of republicans and even independents.

[MelissaCato]

NO !!! Ron Paul 2012 !!!

[mczerone]

really? We have elected the most libertarian leaning senator in the last 50 years and even 3 or 4 pretty hardline libertarian US Reps in the last 5 years and you don't see a difference...?

Not to diminish the great successes of these reps, but it hasn't really made a difference. How many house votes have come down to a difference of 1-5 votes? How many pieces of legislation have been passed/blocked because there are suddenly 1.75% of legislators voting with a liberty and/or strict constitutionalism stance instead of .25%?

We're definitely seeing changes on the margins, but marginal changes don't matter to the outcomes in the congressional system.

[anaconda]

What makes anyone believe they will be asking approval in 2016?

I hear you...assuming the poll companies are still operating..

[anaconda]

Massie could be the heir to Rand's Senate seat in 2016.

Good thinking. I had not thought of this.

[anaconda]

America will have a bad Obama hangover especially republicans, they will be even more open to a conservative alternative than ever before.


If Mittens is president he will also cause a bad hangover. Rand will be fighting for four years to make Mittens and himself seem like night and day. Rand's whole spin will be that there wasn't a dime's worth of difference between Obama and Mittens. He will launch headlong into this within a few months of Mittens inauguration, at the latest.

[RickyJ]

I can handle the chance we will end up with a president Ron Paul, which is what I thought this thread was titled until I clicked on it.

Anyone else I could care less about. Obama, Romney, Gingrich, Clinton, Bush, it does not matter, they are all the same.

[RickyJ]

why is everyone assuming Rand will run in 2016? his senate seat is up, and unlike a house seat it would be impossible to run for president and senator at the same time.

and why would Rand do any better in Iowa than Ron did? Santorum or Huck or whoever is Romney's VP choice will be there.

I really think the GOP is impossible.

I have no idea why anyone would think Rand would do even 1/10 as well as Ron has done. Rand is DOE, yet to many here he is their great hope for the future.

[RickyJ]

What makes anyone believe they will be asking approval in 2016?

Shoot what makes people think they ask for approval now, forget 2016.

[GunnyFreedom]

I don't see why we can't encourage Ron Paul Democrats at the same time. I mean, God forbid the election come down to a Paul Republican vs a Paul Democrat right? I think it's more important than ever to somehow encourage or help inspire the growth of Pauler Democrats. Just like we correctly argue that the Paul Platform is basically the origin of the Republican Party, they correctly argue that the Paul Platform is basically the origin of the Democratic Party. And they are right. Thomas Jefferson is considered the origin of the Democratic Party, and our platform can be lifted directly from his whole body of work.

So if we get Republican Originalists and Democratic Originalists working together and sometimes facing each other in General elections, then who loses really? Only the establishmentarian power brokers as I can see. So do both.

If Romney wins in 2012, there will be sick potential for the growth of strict-construction Constitutionalists in the Democratic party, in regions where such philosophies are still compatible with (or invisible to) local party organisations.

We could potentially see massive growth in Originalist Democrats resulting in electoral victories (already starting actually) in 2014 and 2016. If we double-down and make it clear that the majority of Republicans still winning office in the off-years are also American Originalist (Just like the majority of new Dem victories 2014 and 2016 [wishful thinking]) then 2018 and 2020 the mad rush between the parties to produce 'the best Constitutionalist" is on.

tl;dr - If President Romney is elected, then stand fast and hold the ground we've gained. Encourage Pauler Democrats at every level. The same platform is the origin of both parties, so conceivably if we can create a general 'mad rush' back to the platform, then we can pit the parties against each other as to who will provide that the best.