Dutch Libertarian Party joining the elections, running on a Ron Paul-like platform

[MrDauven]

Liberty in The Netherlands

The history of Libertarian parties around the world is often short-lived. Many Libertarian parties in countries like New-Zealand, Canada, France and The Netherlands tried to capture seats in parliament, but failed to get enough votes. The Netherlands has had a libertarian movement since the 1970’s, which decided to participate in the elections of 1994 with only 5 volunteers. They received 2.754 votes in total, too few to gain a seat in the Dutch parliament.

However, on April 23rd this year the board members of the Dutch Libertarian Party (LP) decided that this is the time to participate in the upcoming elections on the 12th of September. There are two reasons behind this decision. First, the libertarian movement in the Netherlands is much bigger now than it was 18 years ago. Due to the internet, and enthusiasm for the freedom movement abroad, the Dutch Libertarian movement has grown by leaps and bounds and has become much more professional. Second, government has drastically increased in size and scope, taxes are on the rise and a powerful central supra-national government in Brussels is expanding rapidly. The libertarian message is more important than it ever was and it has more fertile ground than it ever had in the past.

The LP now has over 300 volunteers to participate in the upcoming elections, which is sizeable in a country as small as the Netherlands. We stand a good chance to win a seat in parliament, which will mean a great victory for the liberty movement in Holland and Europe. The Libertarian Party is exploiting a political vacuum on the right, because all other political parties support curtailing personal and economic freedom, and advocate tax increases to reduce our deficit. There is no small government political alternative at the moment, and with the LP in the political arena, this is going to change.

Unfortunately, the Dutch government has placed several obstacles in our way. New political parties have to pay €400,- to register their name and €10.000,- to participate in the elections. Because of these expenses our campaign budget is now down to €8.000,-. We therefore want to reach out to liberty minded people around the world to donate to the LP.

Because The Netherlands is only small country we will need around 64,000 votes to win a seat in parliament. With a seat in parliament we will have a chance to spread the message of liberty in The Netherlands and beyond. This is very doable! A modest donation of $10,- or $15,- will really make a difference since the biggest Dutch political party will only spend 1,2 million euros in this election. Because we are fully a volunteer organization, we will be able to stretch our campaign budget very far. Your donation, as small as it is, will go a very long way towards spreading the ideas of liberty in the Netherlands.

Please donate and help us have a libertarian voice in Dutch politics.

Imre Wessels & Mels de Zeeuw

Website:
http://www.libertarischepartij.nl/

Candidates: http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tweede_Kamerverkiezingen_2012/Kandidatenlijst/Libertarische_Partij

Donation:
ING 9430399
IBAN NL14INGB0009430399
BIC INGBNL2A

Edit: We had a special event, at this event we projected the words "bankrupt" on the Dutch Central Bank.
Here is a video of the event.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjRwhHTPTmI

You can also donate via our website, http://www.libertarischepartij.nl/
On the right side, there is a bar called "Doneer via Paypal".
By clicking on the "doneer" button you can donate via Paypal.

[RonRules]

Run to win, not just to educate.

Distance yourselves from the nuts and fanatics, of all types.

Friend the media, it works. But don't let them change your message.

[luctor-et-emergo]

For the people that aren't Dutch, unlike US campaign finance law, the Netherlands does allow for donation from foreigners.
It's an interesting situation, and I don't have a clue what could happen. Campaigns here only produce very mediocre TV-ads, there is very little door-to-door advertisement. Most of it is done by public advertisements on billboards. Personally, I've never had a flyer of a political party in my mailbox.

I completely support and will vote LP. It's nice to meet fellow Dutchies here, and even ones I could vote for!

PS:
@Mr.Dauven, I can imagine that there might be some members on this board that would like to read some of the party platform in English (especially since it's such a good platform!). Is there and English version of the platform ? - I could translate some bits and pieces too ?

[MrDauven]

Hey RonRules,
I posted this for two other freedom loving friends who are part of the dutch LP.
So this will be my own opinion.

In the Netherlands we have 150 seats to take. There is no election treshold in our country.
Winning is kind of hard in our country, or we need 76 seats. (which means 50% + 60k people have to vote for us)
The Netherlands is a coalition country, meaning you have to form a government consisting out of multiple parties.

In our party we have a saying going, 1 libertarian in parlement can ask more questions than 149 statists can answer.
If we want influence we need to get those 65k votes. Our country is having a sort of political crisis right now.
The political right has been calling for fiscal conservatism, budget spending reductions but instead increased taxes.
The far-left, in particulary the Socialist Party, is winning a lot of support right now.
Meaning that on the right there are a lot of disgruntled voters who want to hear our message, but have to get it to their house.

I was thinking of putting flyers through people their mailboxes. These flyers are 1 cent each, and we're gonna need thousands of them. (sort of like the Ron Paul Brochure)

On the topic of media, we have a special team that deals with the media.
We will get a few minutes air time on the national dutch media and there have been plans to organize a debate on initiative of the LP for all the smaller parties that could get a lot of coverage.

The new parties are being covered more then I expected and we're almost always being mentioned. But it is still not enough to get us 60k votes.

[luctor-et-emergo]

Run to win, not just to educate.
Yeah, but these elections are for 150 seats of our equivalent of congress. Every seat is worth the same amount of votes. The biggest hurdle is the first seat. There have been a number of new parties. The newest party that got a number of seats is the 'freedom party', I call them national socialists (which they are). Some of the bigger parties have had big losses over internal disagreements, so a lot of things have changed over recent years. In my opinion this is a very good opportunity for the LP.


Run to win, not just to educate.
Friend the media, it works. But don't let them change your message.

The media... Well I wish I could say it was any better here.
They do allow for more discussion, but words like 'extreme' and 'fantasy' are easily spoken by journalists when talking about libertarians...

[MrDauven]

Hey Luctor, I don't know if you have Facebook but we have a nice network over there for libertarians.
You could private message me and I could hook you up.

Also I have a load of flyers over here in dutch. I can share the image of the scan.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/394667_10151098559575380_606916531_n.jpg

As far as I know there is no English version, but I'm sure it is possible to translate it. ;-)

[luctor-et-emergo]

Hey Luctor, I don't know if you have Facebook but we have a nice network over there for libertarians.
You could private message me and I could hook you up.

Also I have a load of flyers over here in dutch. I can share the image of the scan.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/394667_10151098559575380_606916531_n.jpg

As far as I know there is no English version, but I'm sure it is possible to translate it. ;-)

No Facebook, sorry about that.

Well, yeah, if anyone would like to have something translated, you could ask me (or google translate).

[HOLLYWOOD]

Sounds like the CIA and STate Department will have to step in an ensure 'THEIR RINGERS' stay in power...

Look for more US tax dollars spent on rigging once again, another foreign election.

[Valli6]

If there are any dutch videos or photos actually showing support for Ron Paul, you might want to add them to this thread in the grassroots forum.

The Ron Paul Revolution Is Worldwide
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?384779-The-Ron-Paul-Revolution-Is-Worldwide

[Demigod]

Sounds like the CIA and STate Department will have to step in an ensure 'THEIR RINGERS' stay in power...

Look for more US tax dollars spent on rigging once again, another foreign election.

The EU can fix election just fine by them self's .They have been doing it for the past 2 decades just fine.

[hazek]

Waste of time.

I'm sorry but spend your money, time and energy with anything else but politics because you're just not going to achieve anything.

[luctor-et-emergo]

---

[luctor-et-emergo]

oops. Tried to edit a single word in an older post, but was told I should add at least 2 characters, this ended up in two new posts, sorry about that.

I'll make this into a 'bump'. So here it goes; bump!

[luctor-et-emergo]

So I went ahead and translated the bullet points on that flyer mentioned in #6. I tried to make the translation as exact as possible, very little free translation.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/394667_10151098559575380_606916531_n.jpg

---First page.

Exit the EU - but support European cooperation
No political union, but economic interaction. Free trade is the best defender of peace.

No deficit
'We get the pleasure, our kids the bill'. That's what the national debt does. Get rid of it.

Repeal income taxes
Work should be rewarding, it should not be punished. Income tax has to go.

Repeal taxation through business owners
No sneaky taxes on business owners, let the people see how much they pay directly.

Repeal subsidies
It's not up to the government to decide what is good spending, and how much you should spend.

No foreign involvement of the military
An army is meant for defending the homeland against foreign aggression.

No foreign aid by government
Foreign aid is not a task for government. It mostly maintains poverty.

Free and uncensored internet
Internet regulation is not a task for the government, it's up to the internet service providers.

No speed traps on the highway
The police has much more important things to do then play revenue collector.

--- second page.

Stop the climate hype
If alternative energy has merit, it's up to the market to invest in it.

Deregulation of the housing market
Government interference destroyed the housing market and has to be stopped.

Migration
People that can prove they can take care of themselves are always welcome.

Healthcare
Doctors should be free to practice medicine as they see fit, without government interference.

Crime and punishment
The victim should be in a central position and has to be compensated by the violator.

Education
Nobody is getting any smarter when there's no competition on price and quality in public education.

Environment
A good environment starts with economic growth. It does not start with all encompassing government.

Public media
TV and radio are not task of government. Public media should be shut down.

[MrDauven]

Waste of time.

I'm sorry but spend your money, time and energy with anything else but politics because you're just not going to achieve anything.

Sorry but you're completely wrong.
~65k votes is not impossible to get in a country where +12 million people are allowed to vote.

One party that was once considered to be "Fiscal conservative" and conservative liberal got 20,5% of the votes and 20,7% of the seats and delivered the prime minister last election. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Party_for_Freedom_and_Democracy
They are Libertarian-light, the only problem with them is that they do not keep their promises and are not against government in the way we are.

Most of the supporters of this party actually moved to the LP once they found out about it.

[tangent4ronpaul]

You are asking for donations. Make it easy for people. Set up a chipin - don't give us bank routing numbers... :rolleyes:

-t

[MrDauven]

You are asking for donations. Make it easy for people. Set up a chipin - don't give us bank routing numbers... :rolleyes:

-t

Tangert4ronpaul, I agree with you. And there should also be a Paypal option.
I shall contact one of the people who deals with this asap.

Edit: Just got word they're working on it

[luctor-et-emergo]

Sorry but you're completely wrong.
~65k votes is not impossible to get in a country where +12 million people are allowed to vote.

One party that was once considered to be "Fiscal conservative" and conservative liberal got 20,5% of the votes and 20,7% of the seats and delivered the prime minister last election. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Party_for_Freedom_and_Democracy
They are Libertarian-light, the only problem with them is that they do not keep their promises and are not against government in the way we are.

Most of the supporters of this party actually moved to the LP once they found out about it.

Well I agree that a lot of 'VVD' voters will be inclined to vote for LP, if they find out that they can vote for the LP in time. But I don't agree with the notion that the 'VVD' is libertarian-light, they certainly started out like that. But in the last decade or so, but especially since they 'came to power' they've turned into a bunch of statists. They love the police state, throwing money at Europe, foreign interventions, UN, NATO... They voted FOR a sales tax increase from 19% to 21%. There is NOTHING libertarian light about the 'VVD', some of their rhetoric might be a little confusing, but that's all. They campaigned on the police state, more or less.

So overall there certainly are a lot of people that like 'classical liberalism'. And I'm sure there are a lot of people that regret voting for the VVD. This is a great opportunity, especially since the other 'big' and 'established' parties have really broken down over the last years.



When I talk to people personally, they agree with me on a lot of things. What I've found is that people that voted for a socialist are more inclined to agree with me when it comes to the principles behind libertarianism. However, they refuse to vote LP because they want to keep all of their benefits, even though they agreed a minute ago with me that they most probably would have more opportunities without these benefits. Then when it comes to the people that voted 'VVD' or some other 'right wing' party. These people actually disagree with me on principle, they like the force of government to keep people in line, as long as it's not them. However a lot of these people think the tax burden is getting totally out of control, and the 'VVD' used to be the only party that wanted to lower taxes, not anymore...These are people that can be targeted with ads, they are likely to change their vote and I've been able to convince a couple of them. I've not had so much luck when it comes to socialists.

[One Last Battle!]

Hope you guys do well, then. I'd donate but I'm a bit poor at the moment :(

On that note, do you guys know of any other Libertarian parties worth speaking of worldwide? The Canadian one has done a rather poor job (mostly because the libertarians here moved en-masse to the Reform party, which turned into the increasingly fascistic Progressive Conservatives and are basically stuck). I know there's a small one in Russia and one in Poland, and a libertarianish party in Costa Rica is the third largest in the country.

[RonRules]

Waste of time.

I would not discourage them like that.

I would instead encourage a very strong alternative media. If you want to change things in your country, focus on the media, they have MUCH more influence than any politician. They also totally influence the outcome of elections.

The 2012 Republican primaries were "won" by the media. The goal of the media's campaign was to prevent a Ron Paul victory at all costs. It's like they thought he was Hitler in 1933.

In each of the early states, they claimed to have picked a perfect "Romney Alternative", but in fact it was a "Ron Paul Killer" that they were parading on TV 24/7. Each early state had a different actor. Santorum was played well in Iowa, but really had no funding or chance except by a strong media push. Next was Huntsman in New Hampshire. Then it was Gingrich in South Carolina as well as Nevada. That gave Ron Paul 4 early losses and the rest is history. The media controlled everything.

Ron Paul is the fairy tale president, perfect for America, but the media wanted him out, completely out, and they won.

That's why, it does not matter if you have Marilyn Monroe running in Holland. She won't win unless the media says so.

It is critically important that you discredit the media lies and produce the highest quality, captivating alternative media in Europe.

You need lots of social media, lots of YouTube in Dutch explaining the concept of Liberty.

I lived in Europe for 4 years and frankly, they have no clue about it.

[MrDauven]

Hey RonRules,

In the Netherlands every political party will get atleast 4x 5 minutes of time for a television ad to show to an audience of approx. 1 million viewers.
This is because of the government owned public media.
The Media has also been giving a lot of attention (relatively speaking) to new political parties, where we have been mentioned a few times too.
So it is not like the media is blocking us out or anything.

What I am really looking forward is that we can buy a load of flyers like the one luctor-et-emergo translated and throw them in people their mailboxes.
These flyers are like 1 cent each and if we can strategically get them out we will surely be able to get 1 seat.
If we as a new party get 1 seat, the media will totally report us until everyone knows of it.
In the Netherlands, even parties with just 1 or 2 seats can get an insane load of media attention.
The Party for the Animals is a good example of this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pvdd

Problem we have though is that we only got around 8000 euro, and that is not enough to do all the campaigning we want to do.
We lost +10k on joining the elections, if we get to the 1 seat however we will get it back and will be able to do more the next election.

@One Last Battle! hey,

I would say in the UK the UKIP has been doing very well. They currently have 12 of the 73 EU Parlement for the UK and some polls show they will beat the UK liberals, having +12% of the votes.

In Poland you have Congress of the New Right, which is a libertarian party that got 1,06% of the vote last election.
If we could get 1,06% of the vote we would have around 1 to 2 seats.

[RonRules]

What I am really looking forward is that we can buy a load of flyers like the one luctor-et-emergo translated and throw them in people their mailboxes.

I do realize that you have state-controlled media, but don't forget that libertarianism is really anti-state. They may play your information, but the comments in between will be strongly against it.

Also, a minor thing that my not apply to Holland. In the US, the post office officially "owns" the mail box, even though may have paid for it and installed it. Nobody besides the post office is allowed to put stuff in it. Just check that it's not the same thing in the Netherlands.

[Demigod]

Good for you where I come from we have 2 major political parties both of which are socialistic although one is nationalistic a little as well .Then we have around 4 small political parties that are all socialists as well.And last come the minority parties from which one basically wants to start a war and is socialist of course .

The left - right battle of course is always present.


The cards are stacked as hell for a liberty revolution but I think that in 1-2 years a small organization or a political party can be formed and start with education ,at the moment there are simply no numbers nor finances to start one.

The EU interference or 50+ years of socialism don't help either.

[MrDauven]

I do realize that you have state-controlled media, but don't forget that libertarianism is really anti-state. They may play your information, but the comments in between will be strongly against it.

Also, a minor thing that my not apply to Holland. In the US, the post office officially "owns" the mail box, even though may have paid for it and installed it. Nobody besides the post office is allowed to put stuff in it. Just check that it's not the same thing in the Netherlands.

They call it "zendtijd voor politieke partijen" meaing airtime for political parties. They run it around 6 PM, 5 minutes before the news.
They cannot throw in comments so we're safe on that part.

About the mailing. Most people have a slot in their house where the post can be pushed through.
And there is no law that forbids political parties from delivering flyers, we've already checked that out.

In our country the elections aren't as big of a deal as in the USA. I mean a budget of 1,2 million euros on 17 million people is nothing compared to the 1 billion in the 320 million people in the USA, right?

@Demigod
That is bad, where do you live if I may ask?

[fatjohn]

Also don't spam your facebook. I liked it (Belgian living in the netherlands) when I saw it, but since i had too many messages of the page. Not super much but tone it down a little. Veel succes verder!

[trey4sports]

might be a bit off-topic but i really liked Lilyhammer.

[MrDauven]

Hey guys, this is an interesting interview with our party leader Toine Manders.
It is in english.
http://www.libertarischepartij.nl/2012/08/logos-radio-network-interviews-toine-manders/

[One Last Battle!]

Is it actually likely that you'll get 1% or more? Looking at the polls, your party isn't even polled as an option

[luctor-et-emergo]

Is it actually likely that you'll get 1% or more? Looking at the polls, your party isn't even polled as an option

Depends what you think is likely, but it's certainly possible, I'm not going to bet on it, but I think there's a very good chance.
There have been a number of other parties to start out with nothing.

It will be hard to get a larger percentage without previously having won a single seat.
But winning one or a couple of seats should be possible when starting out with none.

I have not been interested in politics since the last Libertarian leaning party I voted for 4 years ago raised my taxes, openly.
I know I'm not the only one that thinks about it that way.
A lot of people want to get OUT of the EU, or at least part of it. The only parties that are against the EU, believe it or not; The 'Socialist Party' and the 'Freedom Party' (national socialists). So a Libertarian option that's against the EU, I'd say is very attractive to a lot of people.

<bump>

[luctor-et-emergo]

Hey guys, this is an interesting interview with our party leader Toine Manders.
It is in english.
http://www.libertarischepartij.nl/2012/08/logos-radio-network-interviews-toine-manders/

Good interview, I can recommend listening to it.

[luctor-et-emergo]

One-month-pre-election-bump.

[MrDauven]

Dear liberty friends,

We finally have a Paypal donation button up on our website. http://www.libertarischepartij.nl
It is on the right side, when you scroll down under the header "DONEER VIA PAYPAL".

We are currently in need of atleast 1000 euro for a secret action that could give us an insane amount of media coverage.
In the last 12 hours we got around 300-500 euro for the action but we still need more.

I will report back later and show you guys pictures when the event has taken place.

Kind regards,
H. Dauven

[MrDauven]

*delete*

[luctor-et-emergo]

Donated 30 euro's a moment ago.

Let's get some change in The Hague.

[MrDauven]

Donated 30 euro's a moment ago.

Let's get some change in The Hague.

Great!
Every buck is one we can use.
Tomorrow i'll be participating in a debate myself, hopefully to convert some minds to libertarianism.

[luctor-et-emergo]

Great!
Every buck is one we can use.
Tomorrow i'll be participating in a debat myself, hopefully to convert some minds to libertarianism.

Great, is there any way a recording of that debate could end up on the youtube channel ?
I bet that a real life debate is a good medium for winning over hearts and minds.
Good luck ! (who are you debating ?)

[MrDauven]

Great, is there any way a recording of that debate could end up on the youtube channel ?
I bet that a real life debate is a good medium for winning over hearts and minds.
Good luck ! (who are you debating ?)

I'm debating local candidates.
One from 50plus, SOPN and Netherland Local.
It will be broadcasted on 3ML and can be listened to via www.3ml.nl at their live stream between 12:00 and 13:00.

[luctor-et-emergo]

I'm debating local candidates.
One from 50plus, SOPN and Netherland Local.
It will be broadcasted on 3ML and can be listened to via www.3ml.nl at their live stream between 12:00 and 13:00.

Great, I'll tune in.
I hope you get to make some good points.

[MrDauven]

Thursday, 30th of August our special event will take place in Amsterdam.
Not going to spoil too much, photos will follow.


Great, I'll tune in.
I hope you get to make some good points.

Did you get the chance to listen?
Sadly enough didn't get enough time to go deeper into details about certain economical principles.

[luctor-et-emergo]

Did you get the chance to listen?
Sadly enough didn't get enough time to go deeper into details about certain economical principles.
Yes I listened to the whole debate.You made some great points where you got to the principled argument behind the discussion, some other points that you couldn't finish, I got that, but the other people at the debate had the same problem.
Time is always short at debates, especially if you are a libertarian. But you did great with the time you got.


Good luck at the 'mystery' event.

[MrDauven]

Last monday the Dutch Libertarian Party had a mystery event.
This event was to project "bankrupt", "The government is the problem, not the solution", "vote List 14, Libertarian party" and the party logo on the Dutch Central Bank.

Here are pictures of the event.
We also hit the newspapers. We got the full frontpage and the party leader was on the 3rd page aswell in the Parool.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/472866_10151002839212484_586318640_o.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/330103_10151002764312484_1710309259_o.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/330163_10151002839412484_1968881271_o.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/192977_10151002839597484_1326349179_o.jpg

https://p.twimg.com/A19XPtiCIAArIp6.jpg:large

[RabbitMan]

Looks like you are having fun! That is half the battle!

[MrDauven]

Looks like you are having fun! That is half the battle!

A research agency polled on which party small business owners would vote.
The Libertarian Party got 14% of the votes.

Business owners are really liking us.
A lot of people on twitter are now asking who the Libertarian party is, because they got us as the 1# party in the voting profilers.
We're gaining more and more attention.

[MrDauven]

Here is a video of our action at the Dutch Central Bank.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjRwhHTPTmI

[VoluntaryAmerican]

Epic video. Make sure to keep us posted how it goes.

FOR LIBERTY!

[luctor-et-emergo]

A research agency polled on which party small business owners would vote.
A lot of people on twitter are now asking who the Libertarian party is, because they got us as the 1# party in the voting profilers.
We're gaining more and more attention.

First of all, congratulations with the mystery event, I think it turned out great. Front page of 'Het Parool', not bad.

I did the 'stemwijzer' test too, and got LP with two differences, on non important issues. A friend and a couple of family members also did the test, all of them got LP.
Keep up the good work, if there's anything I could help with, shoot me a message.

[randomname]

http://nl2012.election-maps.appspot.com/results/embed?hl=nl

They got about 4100 votes, the other 99.9% of voters wanted socialism :(

[fatjohn]

Yes the only plus point is that the last time they participated they only got 2800 votes or so. It's a sad result after the increase in attention on libertarianism worldwide mainly due to RP. I do hope they find the spirit to go on though. Main problem is name recognition. Everybody in the Netherlands knows about the ridiculous "Party for the animals" which results in 2 percent of the vote, which is come to think of it batshit crazy. I hope most of those are actually protest votes.

[Sujan]

People want socialism apparently because they do not want to have any responsibilities, people in general are highly allergic to ‘responsibilities’. In that sense the message from socialist parties is very popular, namely that government will take care of all, you won’t have to do anything, the promises of the welfare state etc etc.

The libertarian party says exactly the opposite, the government is not going to do this, is not going to do that….this scares people, ‘I should do that myself? No way!’ take care of me!

This the reason why the message of libertarianism is very hard to sell, although is works far better than socialism.