Shaping a Policy Concerning Women and their Choices

[Working Poor]

I hear a lot that Ron Paul does not appeal to women because he is pro life. I have been thinking on this issue long and hard and have come to the conclusion that women and men are not very well educated concerning reproduction. We all know the liberals have placed abortion and sterilization programs in Obamacare.

Women need to wake up and realize what they are setting themselves up for. All humans of reproductive age need to be well educated on the whys and hows of conception. I think people who call themselves Christians are in some kind of denial about this education issue and are not backing up their beliefs with facts. The fact is many women are still getting pregnant when they do not want to be pregnant. I read a stat that said there are something like 23 million abortions each year world wide with the European having more than the rest of the world some 22% of pregnancies are terminated each year by abortion in the USA.

Women can learn to Identify when they ovulate I think every female going thru puberty should receive an ovulation detection kit by the time of their first period. I think males ought to view their sperm under the microscope as soon as their bodies start producing sperm. So maybe they can learn some respect of their little guys. Christians in the republican party need to get up with the physiologic facts of the matter and realize telling their children not to have sex because it is a sin is not quite cutting it. If People want who want to end abortion waving signs in downtown areas with pictures of aborted fetuses only inflames people. There needs to be a fact based approach not an emotional one.

The desire to have sex is greatly enhanced by ovulation. There are pheromones being emitted by women and men when they are at the height of fertility at these times women who do not wish to be pregnant need to be more aware that they are much more likely to be ovulating. Men and women do not seem to generally know that attraction is about being fertile. The drive to reproduce is can be overwhelming if not approached with discipline.

Men need to take far more responsibility for not fathering children they do not want or cannot support because pro creation is a 50/50 venture. It cannot happen with out both male and female participation even in artificial insemination. Making this a moral issue is not solving the problem of unwanted pregnancy, Something ain''t quite right about there being what is it 9 billion people on the earth at a time when there is birth control, abortion, and sterilization available. There are still children being born who are born into being dependent on the government for their needs and many unwanted children and children growing up in foster care because their parents cannot or will not take care of them a few of them even get taken out of loving homes because some bureaucrat has decided that the parents have not jumped thru the right hoop or met some standard. All of it is very sad.

All I can say is there must not be the right education nor the right birth control methods if abortions are still considered to be necessary and children are still growing up with welfare assistance and in foster care. I really wish the abortion issue would never come up again in politics. I do not think making abortion illegal is the answer at this point in time but certainly trying to reduce the chances of unwanted pregnancy could help put some salve on the issue. There are many people who do not connect that an embryo and a fetus is alive.

Our movement is all about personal responsibility. The men in our group need to show women that they are responsible and take the necessary precautions themselves to prevent unwanted pregnancies with people they have no intention of forming a family unit with. Since their are more young men in our movement this a great time to start practicing personal responsibility in your intimate relationships and the women in our movement need to start understanding more about the physiologic symptoms of ovulation and help the other women learn about it.. Teach your children about reproduction and learn about what schools are teaching on the subject and give them feed back that is based in fact not religious dogma and sin because the liberal education system don't share your concerns about life.

[Working Poor]

Come on now I need ya'lls input. How are we going to influence Republicans to have a better more comprehensive view of pro life issues? The dems kick our asses on this issue. So many people engaged in debate about abortion sound like a 5th grader up against a college professor.

We want more women on board in the liberty movement. How are we going to open them up without proof that they can learn more about their bodies and be less dependent on the government owned and regulated medical industrial complex? You can't just say oh abortion is bad and birth control harms women which I believe it does. Many women do not want the pill or devices offered to control conception it is unnatural and alters women's delicate hormonal system I know a lot of women of child bearing age want something natural and effective and not to feel like they need an abortion. Women are very deeply programed about birth control so help me break them out of their stupor.

[ShaneEnochs]

I have no opinion one way or another. I don't think abortion should be legal at a certain point in the pregnancy though. Maybe after two months?

There are many parents who wish to adopt, though.

[CaptUSA]

So you mean inseminating as many women as possible with my liberty-loving sperm won't help? Damn.

And here, I've been using the Longshanks strategy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RS4cwl9Af4

[Carlybee]

Yes because women so need men to "educate" them about ovulation. I try to stay out of people's relationships with their own reproductive parts.

[AuH20]

I really view abortion laws, aside from the partial birth restrictions, as nothing but damage control after the fact. Abortion and singlemotherhood must return to the socially taboo status as opposed to some type of crowning achievement. Sorry but infanticide is not a badge of honor. That's really the only way to combat this type of destructive behavior. Ultimately, the community at large, not the government is the only one who can at least bring down these numbers to an acceptable level.

[Working Poor]

Yes because women so need men to "educate" them about ovulation. I try to stay out of people's relationships with their own reproductive parts.

No women need to be educating women. Men need to be educated that they are every bit as responsible for pregnancy as a a women is. The ancients made a celebration of ovulation and passage into puberty.

[Working Poor]

I really view abortion laws, aside from the partial birth restrictions, as nothing but damage control after the fact. Abortion and singlemotherhood must return to the socially taboo status as opposed to some type of crowning achievement. Sorry but infanticide is not a badge of honor. That's really the only way to combat this type of destructive behavior. Ultimately, the community at large, not the government is the only one who can at least bring down these numbers to an acceptable level.

Hpw can the community do this without shaming people?

[AuH20]

Hpw can the community do this without shaming people?

That's the critical thrust of the plan. Shaming is more preferable than laws. If the person can't handle the shaming, I advise that person to live as a hermit.

[Eagles' Wings]

In my own personal experience, the Christian women I know are well aware of how their bodies work and how to plan their family size. There is no excuse not to know. We must teach our children these things as well.

We teach responsibility and "how to" make a good choice when in situations that are "tempting". We don't hide our head in the sand and say, "Just say no." We talk as often as possible about what they want for themselves. We take them out for their favorite food and talk about what they would like in a mate.....not in a brief sexual encounter.

We talk about the life long ties that occur with multiple sexual partners - that often inhibit a healthy sexual life in marriage.

We tell them that if they find themselves pregnant, we will be there for them - while they take full responsibility first.

[Carlybee]

Who's going to pay for and distribute this ovulation detection kit?

[Nirvikalpa]

You quite lost me after the reading the title, and then the words: "Women need to wake up."

I will say this though: I spent semesters studying reproductive biology, oogenesis, spermatogenesis, ovulation, etc etc. I went into my studies pro-life, and came out pro-choice. Take that as you wish it; there are those that study it and, like me, realize the truly complicated matter in naming a specific time a fetus turns into a "person," and then there are those (doctors, nurses, etc) who make it their passion and life-work to save the unborn (like Dr. Paul) who just seem to know.

Men could benefit from understanding what the menstrual cycle as a whole is, instead of the "oh, she's bitchy, she must be on the rag." That said, there is definitely a stigma concerning women's sexuality when comparing men's sexuality, although both really know nothing of the physiological processes they go through each day.

While men tend to be open about their sexuality, societal stigma tends to cast a dark cloud on women's sexuality. I agree with you when you state that women should talk freely to other women about their bodies and their sexuality, but I think society as a whole pushes too much negativity with sex (Women in ads are free to appear voluptuous, but a woman on the street wearing a low-cut shirt is a "skank"). When women act, as directed by the media, they are faced with many more negative repercussions than men (she's easy, she's a whore). Young girls are punished for acting like what they see, when it's really all they see.

Anyway, I have a couple of problems with some of your statements:


There are many people who do not connect that an embryo and a fetus is alive.

Lets go over some basic embryology:

Conception (nuclei of ovum and sperm fuse) -> forms zygote (embryo). Mitosis occurs.
Zygote is more than 8 cells -> Now called a Morula.
The embryo does not grow at this stage, cells continue to divide until forming a fluid-filled ball -> Blastocyst.
On day 5-7 after conception, the Blastocyst lodges in the uterus -> Only when this occurs is a female scientifically considered "pregnant."

Can you really consider something that isn't even attached to its life-source yet "alive?" Specifically even when a woman is not even considered pregnant? I think you are throwing terms out there without any knowledge of what they actually mean.


There are pheromones being emitted by women and men when they are at the height of fertility at these times women who do not wish to be pregnant need to be more aware that they are much more likely to be ovulating.

It's quite the opposite: women's sensitivity toward's MENS pheromones increase during ovulation:


Men secrete musky odorants in abundance. The -3-ol precursor of boar taint substance is found in male urine, and substances similar to testosterone, such as androstenone, are secreted in the smegma and from the apocrine glands of the underarms and pubic area of males. As is usually the case, bacterial action may be necessary for the release of the odorants. The fact that men's bodies secrete these substances and that women are maximally sensitive to them when they are most fertile indicates that there may be a olfactory-sexual role for these substances in human sexuality.

Indeed, a study performed by J. Richard Udry at the University of North Carolina attempted to delineate the relationship between coitus, orgasm and position in the menstrual cycle. He found that women do indeed engage in sexual intercourse about six times more frequently at about the time of ovulation, when women's sensitivity to the male musk odor is highest. In addition, the women are much more likely to have an orgasm at these times. Further, the women Udry studied women were several times less likely to have sexual intercourse or have an orgasm during and two to three days after menstruation, which is when women's sensitivity to the musky smell of men is lowest. Coupled with women's odor sensitivity, these results could indicate a possible pheromonal trigger for sexual behaviour.

There have been many studies on whether or not human vaginal secretions might contain some kind of sex pheromone (or "copulin", as one researcher calls them). Several researchers have found that human vaginal secretions contain various small (C2 to C6) fatty acids, with acetic acid predominating. Richard P. Michael found that about 30% of the women (he called them 'producers') produced a significant amount of those small fatty acids (not including acetic acid) that induce copulatory behaviour in infra-human monkeys. In addition, these "copulins" increased up until ovulation, and then decreased as menstruation approached. Michael also noted that women on birth-control pills did not show this mid-cycle increase, and had a lower overall fatty acid content. Michael theorized that these fatty acids or "copulins" were a sexual trigger in humans, but this has never been demonstrated, although the producers' secretions did increase copulatory behaviour in rhesus monkeys. When David Goldfoot's group in Wisconsin tried to confirm these results, however, they were unsuccessful.

Actually their study brings up another important point: birth-control pills. It's no shocker that the Pill has been found to affect a woman's taste in men (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=birth-control-pills-affect-womens-taste) (thus pairing with an individual that may not be the best for potential offspring).


Many women do not want the pill or devices offered to control conception it is unnatural and alters women's delicate hormonal system I know a lot of women of child bearing age want something natural and effective and not to feel like they need an abortion.

I let men talk about what they think they know when deciding if I want to pursue something with them. That's always been my own natural form of birth control, and it seems to work for me.


I really view abortion laws, aside from the partial birth restrictions, as nothing but damage control after the fact. Abortion and singlemotherhood must return to the socially taboo status as opposed to some type of crowning achievement. Sorry but infanticide is not a badge of honor. That's really the only way to combat this type of destructive behavior. Ultimately, the community at large, not the government is the only one who can at least bring down these numbers to an acceptable level.

Are the men that get the women pregnant to be shamed as well?

As I said before... let them speak. ;)

[Eagles' Wings]

Come on now I need ya'lls input. How are we going to influence Republicans to have a better more comprehensive view of pro life issues? The dems kick our asses on this issue. So many people engaged in debate about abortion sound like a 5th grader up against a college professor.

We want more women on board in the liberty movement. How are we going to open them up without proof that they can learn more about their bodies and be less dependent on the government owned and regulated medical industrial complex? You can't just say oh abortion is bad and birth control harms women which I believe it does. Many women do not want the pill or devices offered to control conception it is unnatural and alters women's delicate hormonal system I know a lot of women of child bearing age want something natural and effective and not to feel like they need an abortion. Women are very deeply programed about birth control so help me break them out of their stupor.

The liberal women I talk with - in the environmental/health movement are more open to non-barrier methods of birth control. Many Christian churches have embraced this - Natural Family Planning and the Ovulation Method. It takes WORK and KNOWLEDGE and most people in the heat of the moment do not want to deal with it. It does work and it takes self-discipline - which many don't have.

[Kluge]

We can appeal to reasonable Republicans via the "keep gov't out of all medicine" message. You will never reach the people standing outside of the abortion clinics with signs though...unless some day they wake up and realize that the gov't itself is pro-death and can't ever be a part of the solution for ending unnecessary abortions.

[Eagles' Wings]

I'm sorry to say that the "right" to have sex whenever and with whomever and then to abort an unexpected baby, is so deeply valued at this time.

For those who value this - what is the reasoning?

[Nirvikalpa]

We can appeal to reasonable Republicans via the "keep gov't out of all medicine" message. You will never reach the people standing outside of the abortion clinics with signs though...unless some day they wake up and realize that the gov't itself is pro-death and can't ever be a part of the solution for ending unnecessary abortions.

Nailed it.

Except for those old geezers who love their Medicare :(

http://blueollie.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/medicare.jpg http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/7919/medicare.jpg

[AuH20]

I'm sorry to say that the "right" to have sex whenever and with whomever and then to abort an unexpected baby, is so deeply valued at this time.

For those who value this - what is the reasoning?

It's pure inhuman selfishness. I think women want to act as irresponsibly as men in regards to sexual encounters. And I think it is screwed up how a man who is sexually active is viewed as some sort of hero, while a woman is chastized as a worthless whore. I think both sexes should get heat when they can't live up to their responsibilities. I have no problems with adults being sexual active but don't blame society when you drop the ball.

[AuH20]

Are the men that get the women pregnant to be shamed as well?

As I said before... let them speak. ;)

Absolutely. It takes two to tango. Women shouldn't be crucified as the lone party of blame.

[Tod]

...need to get up with the physiologic facts of the matter and realize telling their children not to have sex because it is a sin is not quite cutting it.

It is bigger than that. It is about the kids grasping a purpose in life and having goals and having a healthy relationship with others so that they have a motive for not wanting to derail them. Kids that aren't seeking to fill a void through sex (especially important for girls to have a good relationship with their fathers) or are motivated to achieve are far less likely to engage in that behavior, understanding that the time for sex is later, under better circumstances. Understanding the benefits of delayed gratification is helpful in all sorts of human behavior, not just with sex, and it can and should be practiced in all sorts of daily life before the kid even reaches puberty. That is why it is good for kids to have responsibilities commensurate with their age (in the form of chores, etc) when they are young.

Is it 100%? Of course not, but it is remarkably effective.

[Tod]

http://blueollie.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/medicare.jpg

What a great sign! *double facepalm*

[Working Poor]

We can appeal to reasonable Republicans via the "keep gov't out of all medicine" message. You will never reach the people standing outside of the abortion clinics with signs though...unless some day they wake up and realize that the gov't itself is pro-death and can't ever be a part of the solution for ending unnecessary abortions.

Yes "keep the government out of medicine" message is important. I am concerned about people not realizing the pro death stance of the government. People who are for banning guns do not seem to understand that the gov't does not want to ban guns to prevent death.

[Working Poor]

It is bigger than that. It is about the kids grasping a purpose in life and having goals and having a healthy relationship with others so that they have a motive for not wanting to derail them. Kids that aren't seeking to fill a void through sex (especially important for girls to have a good relationship with their fathers) or are motivated to achieve are far less likely to engage in that behavior, understanding that the time for sex is later, under better circumstances. Understanding the benefits of delayed gratification is helpful in all sorts of human behavior, not just with sex, and it can and should be practiced in all sorts of daily life before the kid even reaches puberty. That is why it is good for kids to have responsibilities commensurate with their age (in the form of chores, etc) when they are young.

Is it 100%? Of course not, but it is remarkably effective.

Great input thanks so much.

[Eagles' Wings]

We can appeal to reasonable Republicans via the "keep gov't out of all medicine" message. You will never reach the people standing outside of the abortion clinics with signs though...unless some day they wake up and realize that the gov't itself is pro-death and can't ever be a part of the solution for ending unnecessary abortions.
It seems that most who picket at abortion sites are hoping to influence a woman not to abort. The grisly signs are not the way, imo. I can't imagine any of these people NOT knowing that the govt. is pro-death.

[Working Poor]

It seems that most who picket at abortion sites are hoping to influence a woman not to abort. The grisly signs are not the way, imo. I can't imagine any of these people NOT knowing that the govt. is pro-death.


Louise just want you to know I think you are giving some great input thanks for discussing this. How are we going to help women see the pro-death side of the government? No heat of the moment is worth an unwanted pregnancy. Loving ones self is vital to obtaining the knowledge needed to prevent an unwanted pregnancy. We need to teach our young ones what it means to respect their body and their soul.

[Feeding the Abscess]

It seems that most who picket at abortion sites are hoping to influence a woman not to abort. The grisly signs are not the way, imo. I can't imagine any of these people NOT knowing that the govt. is pro-death.

You should start imagining, then. Many anti-abortion activists are hardcore Republican supporters. The Bush supporter types.

In any event, Kluge and AuH20 hit the nail on the head. Involving the largest death machine ever assembled to somehow stop the ending of life is the most backwards endeavor ever.

As for capturing more women in the movement, I'm not a woman, but a good policy would be to talk to them and find out how they approach the abortion issue on an individual basis.

[Eagles' Wings]

You should start imagining, then. Many anti-abortion activists are hardcore Republican supporters. The Bush supporter types.

In any event, Kluge and AuH20 hit the nail on the head. Involving the largest death machine ever assembled to somehow stop the ending of life is the most backwards endeavor ever.

As for capturing more women in the movement, I'm not a woman, but a good policy would be to talk to them and find out how they approach the abortion issue on an individual basis.Yes, I used to be one of those kind of republicans until I learned of Ron Paul. They are a hard nut to crack and thus this thread. I believe that one-on-one conversations are crucial. They take time and effort and tact on our part.

[Eagles' Wings]

Louise just want you to know I think you are giving some great input thanks for discussing this. How are we going to help women see the pro-death side of the government? No heat of the moment is worth an unwanted pregnancy. Loving ones self is vital to obtaining the knowledge needed to prevent an unwanted pregnancy. We need to teach our young ones what it means to respect their body and their soul.Well, thank you, too, for bringing this up. It is a subject very near and dear to me and talking with women about this is a calling for some. It is like a vocation or a mission because it is about life and death. It is very important for pro-life women to sound the alarm, as Ron Paul has done, about the various pro-death stances of our government. When we find common ground, ie. a stance against capital punishment, a stance against unfounded wars, a stance against economic death, we can slowly show them that Ron Paul makes sense.

[Working Poor]

I have said to many women in debates about abortion as a right to ask how the Chinese women feel about their right to an abortion. I think "rights" are being redefined right under our noses.

[Nirvikalpa]

Louise just want you to know I think you are giving some great input thanks for discussing this. How are we going to help women see the pro-death side of the government? No heat of the moment is worth an unwanted pregnancy. Loving ones self is vital to obtaining the knowledge needed to prevent an unwanted pregnancy. We need to teach our young ones what it means to respect their body and their soul.

Pretty sure just about anyone could walk into the store and buy a pack of condoms.

Getting pregnant with an unwanted/unexpected child =/= not loving yourself =/= not respecting their body or soul =/= abortions every time to even begin with.

[Kluge]

Yes, I used to be one of those kind of republicans until I learned of Ron Paul. They are a hard nut to crack and thus this thread. I believe that one-on-one conversations are crucial. They take time and effort and tact on our part.

You're the best kind of person to reach out to them--I get too irritable about the obvious disconnect of logic in being pro-war and pro-life. We need more people like you and fewer jerks like myself. :p

[Eagles' Wings]

You're the best kind of person to reach out to them--I get too irritable about the obvious disconnect of logic in being pro-war and pro-life. We need more people like you and fewer jerks like myself. :pI was out of town for a few days otherwise I would have responded sooner. I have hurt many people over the years and have learned the hard way that with this issue, letting people talk is key. Planting a seed - then someone else comes along and tills, etc.

Also, your posts kick me in the butt sometimes, there is a healthy give and take here.