Japan & Gun Homicides

[Havax]

There have been an absurdly low number of gun homicides in Japan. Guns are also completely outlawed in the country. What do we as libertarians make of this? Do we concede the point that gun violence would lower if they were outlawed, but it is our right to defend ourselves and have the right to bear arms? That it is our last line of defense against a tyrannical government?

I know the amount of guns in America would make any type of outlawing guns very unlikely and a very hostile situation. I'm pro-2nd ammendment by the way. Just curious your guys thoughts on this.

[torchbearer]

There is an extreme amount of deaths by knife in japan.(also in UK)


In Japan there is great concern about what is perceived to be a rising level of knife crime. In June a man ran amok in a Tokyo shopping district, killing seven people and injuring seven more, stabbing his victims with a double edged hunting knife. Sadly, such incidents are not as unusual here as they once were.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7508418.stm


criminals just use a different weapon. you don't stop the violence with the threat of more violence.

[Anti Federalist]

Cops in Japan can enter and search your home whenever they feel like it, as well.

Apples and bowling balls to compare the two.

And even with guns totally outlawed, they have had their share of mass killings as well.

Maybe somebody can post that story about the Japanese man who attacked and killed a bunch of people with a battle sword, IIRC.

ETA - Already done.

[jkr]

ninjas...

[Weston White]

If somebody truly desires to commit the sin of suicide they will find a way, be it by overdose, hanging, jumping off a cliff, drinking, "cutting", euthanasia, seppuku/harakiri, or whatever. Removing guns from the equation will not eliminate the desire for suicide.

[Bman]

It really is a culture thing. For instance the UK had a much lower rate of murder then the US before it implemented gun laws. Not to mention since they passed a bill in 1995 placing further restrictions on gun ownership, the amount of gun related murders has slightly increased.

I wonder how much our gun murder rate decreases if we simply end the war on drugs.

[Acala]

There have been an absurdly low number of gun homicides in Japan. Guns are also completely outlawed in the country. What do we as libertarians make of this? Do we concede the point that gun violence would lower if they were outlawed, but it is our right to defend ourselves and have the right to bear arms? That it is our last line of defense against a tyrannical government?

I know the amount of guns in America would make any type of outlawing guns very unlikely and a very hostile situation. I'm pro-2nd ammendment by the way. Just curious your guys thoughts on this.

Cross-cultural comparisons like this are useless. It is hard to imagine a culture LESS like the USA than Japan. It is much better to look at one part of the USA and compare it to another because it reduces cultural effects. And when you look at those statistics, the correlation between gun restictions and gun violence is nearly one to one - the more gun control, the more gun violence.

Of course that is a bit misleading as well because what they are REALLY arguing is that gun control laws reduuce violence. So the proper comparison is a before/after gun law comparison of the same people. Advocates of gun control will be hard-pressed to find any case where a gun control law caused violent crime to go down, including England, as noted by Bman above..

[TheGrinch]

It really is a culture thing. For instance the UK had a much lower rate of murder then the US before it implemented gun laws. Not to mention since they passed a bill in 1995 placing further restrictions on gun ownership, the amount of gun related murders has slightly increased.

I wonder how much our gun murder rate decreases if we simply end the war on drugs.
Good post. I agree the culture thing has a lot more to do with it than the laws.

Also a good point about how the drug war only brings more guns into violent criminal's hands. I know a guy who appeared to be very involved with drug dealers, and even though he wasn't violent persay, he was arrested and is still in jail for, you guessed it, illegally purchased and restricted weapons.

[Anti Federalist]

If somebody truly desires to commit the sin of suicide they will find a way, be it by overdose, hanging, jumping off a cliff, drinking, "cutting", euthanasia, seppuku/harakiri, or whatever. Removing guns from the equation will not eliminate the desire for suicide.

That is correct.

And Japan has suicide rate that is double that of the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

7th highest in the world as a matter of fact.

[AGRP]

It really is a culture thing.

I dont know much about statistics on this topic, but this does play a role for many things. Many cultures are completely subservant to their governments to the point they are essentially slaves and individuality is as unfamiliar as distant galaxies. I don't remember what Asian government did this, but their country excelled in essentially everything except creativity/coming up with new ideas. They actually ran studies on how people in the US excelled so much while they struggled at it. A lot things are a culture thing. Individualism vs. Collectivism.

[trey4sports]

fuckin' ninjas....

[truelies]

There have been an absurdly low number of gun homicides in Japan. Guns are also completely outlawed in the country. What do we as libertarians make of this? Do we concede the point that gun violence would lower if they were outlawed, but it is our right to defend ourselves and have the right to bear arms? That it is our last line of defense against a tyrannical government?

I know the amount of guns in America would make any type of outlawing guns very unlikely and a very hostile situation. I'm pro-2nd ammendment by the way. Just curious your guys thoughts on this.


Historically Japan just like the Brit Empire has coupled the disarming of the mundanes (not just modern guns but edged iron weapons 500 years ago) with unending violent State aggression not just against every foreigner within reach but also rountinely against the State's subjects. Most modern day American gun and other private violence is a direct result of a State which deliberately empowers the criminal class relative to decent people. This for the implicit purpose of keeping the 99% controllable by the 1%.

[emazur]

criminals just use a different weapon. you don't stop the violence with the threat of more violence.

Yup. Japan had it's own massacre in 1995 with a sarin gas subway attack. No guns needed:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarin_gas_attack_on_the_Tokyo_subway

In five coordinated attacks, the perpetrators released sarin on several lines of the Tokyo Metro, killing thirteen people, severely injuring fifty and causing temporary vision problems for nearly a thousand others. The attack was directed against trains passing through Kasumigaseki and Nagatachō, home to the Japanese government. It is the most serious attack to occur in Japan since the end of World War II.

Like Holmes, the attackers weren't people with street thug backgrounds but were highly educated

[emazur]

http://www.davekopel.com/2A/Foreign/Japan-Gun-Control-and-People-Control.htm

Dr. Paul Blackman of NRA/ILA points out that if gun control were really the major cause of the low Japanese crime rate, it would be impossible to explain why Japan's non-gun crime rate is so much lower than America's non-gun crime rate. America's non-gun robbery rate, for example, is 60 times Japan's.

If gun control were really such an important factor in Japan's low crime, it would also be hard to explain why Japan's murder rate is higher than Britain's (a shooter's paradise compared to Japan). Both Switzerland and Israel have many more guns per capita than even America, and require citizens to own or train with pistols and fully automatic rifles. Yet these countries have less murder and violent crime than Japan, and
almost no gun crime.

[DamianTV]

There have been an absurdly low number of gun homicides in Japan. Guns are also completely outlawed in the country. What do we as libertarians make of this? Do we concede the point that gun violence would lower if they were outlawed, but it is our right to defend ourselves and have the right to bear arms? That it is our last line of defense against a tyrannical government?

I know the amount of guns in America would make any type of outlawing guns very unlikely and a very hostile situation. I'm pro-2nd ammendment by the way. Just curious your guys thoughts on this.

This is extremely easy to explain.

Japan does not consider "Unsovlable Gun Deaths" as "Murders" thus directly affecting the statistics that come out of their Propganda Machine. They have just as many people murdered in their country as anywhere else in the world, but their refusal to classify crimes they cant solve as "Murders" has a direct affect on the way that their statistics are perceived, but zero corrolation to reality.

Go check out Freakanomics. They have a much better explanation than I can provide that anyone is willing to read.

[daviddee]

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[daviddee]

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[DerailingDaTrain]

A gun, a knife, a hatchet, a brick, etc. can all be used to kill but they are inanimate objects which do not have minds of their own. The UK has strict gun laws (no semi-automatic rifles, no handguns, nothing above a .22, etc) and yet Glasgow, Scotland is the murder capital of Western Europe and Scotland has the highest number of stabbing (slang word is chib) deaths per capita. Ban one weapon and they will choose another and the only people who suffer are law abiding citizens. Another thing to note is that handguns are illegal in the UK and yet 90% of all gun crimes committed are with handguns. Violent people will always find a way to commit violent acts

[Working Poor]

The people of China's preferred method of suicide is poison

[PaulConventionWV]

ninjas...

...don't use guns.

[Tinnuhana]

And, sadly, many of the suicides are by children, because they are brutalized by their classmates (ijime = torment).

[PaulConventionWV]

Cross-cultural comparisons like this are useless. It is hard to imagine a culture LESS like the USA than Japan. It is much better to look at one part of the USA and compare it to another because it reduces cultural effects. And when you look at those statistics, the correlation between gun restictions and gun violence is nearly one to one - the more gun control, the more gun violence.

Of course that is a bit misleading as well because what they are REALLY arguing is that gun control laws reduuce violence. So the proper comparison is a before/after gun law comparison of the same people. Advocates of gun control will be hard-pressed to find any case where a gun control law caused violent crime to go down, including England, as noted by Bman above..

Right. This comparison is not reliable because we don't have a before/after comparison for Japan. Statistically, it makes no sense to compare the two, so no, we don't have to concede anything. We have always been right.

[PaulConventionWV]

That is correct.

And Japan has suicide rate that is double that of the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

7th highest in the world as a matter of fact.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was my understanding that it is much more culturally acceptable in Japan to commit suicide. It is even considered honorable in some circumstances.

[kathy88]

There is an extreme amount of deaths by knife in japan.(also in UK)



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7508418.stm


criminals just use a different weapon. you don't stop the violence with the threat of more violence.

That's it. Call your congressmen. Write your senators, quick. Get knives of any type, including paring added to the arms treaty. Act fast. Could go down as soon as tomorrow.

[Nickels]

Japan is not libertarian. So libertarians don't care if Japanese don't die from guns.

[Tomoko]

being from Japan, I have to agree, I do like the Second Amendment since living here. I have .357, .223 tactical rifle (Ruger mini-14), and a 12 gauge Winchester.

[Pericles]

being from Japan, I have to agree, I do like the Second Amendment since living here. I have .357, .223 tactical rifle (Ruger mini-14), and a 12 gauge Winchester.

This post deserves rep.

[VIDEODROME]

Some comparison was made between the aftermath of the Tsunami in Japan and Hurricane Katrina in the U.S.. There seemed to be an impression that the Japanese had a stronger sense of solidarity and order instead of looting home and causing chaos.

I wonder if this is a mix of culture and having a more homogeneous population.

[Acala]

being from Japan, I have to agree, I do like the Second Amendment since living here. I have .357, .223 tactical rifle (Ruger mini-14), and a 12 gauge Winchester.

Welcome to the forum! Great first post. There are many things I admire about Japanese culture, but the disarmed subservience is not one of them. Of course the USA suffers from too much of that as well.

[Acala]

This post deserves rep.

Done

[James Madison]

Some comparison was made between the aftermath of the Tsunami in Japan and Hurricane Katrina in the U.S.. There seemed to be an impression that the Japanese had a stronger sense of solidarity and order instead of looting home and causing chaos.

I wonder if this is a mix of culture and having a more homogeneous population.

Probably a combination of both, though the community-based culture in Japan is derived from the scarcity of resources on a relatively small archipelago. Not surprisingly, subservient, collectivist cultures who were better able to manage limited resources won out against more individualistic cultures.