Romney vows to fight medical marijuana tooth and nail

[green73]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lTbAI4sP0M

[Bruno]

He'a so much like us, I almost feel like he has my vote!

J/K! No One But (Ron) Paul!

[Kylie]

Well, there goes the California vote.

:D

[squarepusher]

what an asshole!

http://molpharm.aspetjournals.org/content/70/3/897.full

Cannabidiol-Induced Apoptosis in Human Leukemia Cells: A Novel Role of Cannabidiol in the Regulation of p22phox and Nox4 Expression

Robert J. McKallip (http://molpharm.aspetjournals.org/search?author1=Robert+J.+McKallip&sortspec=date&submit=Submit),
Wentao Jia (http://molpharm.aspetjournals.org/search?author1=Wentao+Jia&sortspec=date&submit=Submit),
Jerome Schlomer (http://molpharm.aspetjournals.org/search?author1=Jerome+Schlomer&sortspec=date&submit=Submit),
James W. Warren (http://molpharm.aspetjournals.org/search?author1=James+W.+Warren&sortspec=date&submit=Submit),
Prakash S. Nagarkatti (http://molpharm.aspetjournals.org/search?author1=Prakash+S.+Nagarkatti&sortspec=date&submit=Submit) and
Mitzi Nagarkatti (http://molpharm.aspetjournals.org/search?author1=Mitzi+Nagarkatti&sortspec=date&submit=Submit)

+ (http://molpharm.aspetjournals.org/content/70/3/897.full#) Author Affiliations


Department of Pathology, Microbiology, and Immunology, the University of South Carolina School of Medicine, Columbia, South Carolina (R.J.M., J.W.W., P.S.N., M.N.); and Department of Microbiology and Immunology, Virginia Commonwealth University, Richmond, Virginia (W.J., J.S.)



Address correspondence to:
Dr. Robert J. McKallip. Department of Pathology, Microbiology and Immunology. University of South Carolina School of Medicine, 6439 Garner's Ferry Road, Columbia, SC 29209. E-mail: rmckallip@gw.med.sc.edu



Abstract: In the current study, we examined the effects of the nonpsychoactive cannabinoid, cannabidiol, on the induction of apoptosis in leukemia cells. Exposure of leukemia cells to cannabidiol led to cannabinoid receptor 2 (CB2)-mediated reduction in cell viability and induction in apoptosis. Furthermore, cannabidiol treatment led to a significant decrease in tumor burden and an increase in apoptotic tumors in vivo. From a mechanistic standpoint, cannabidiol exposure resulted in activation of caspase-8, caspase-9, and caspase-3, cleavage of poly(ADP-ribose) polymerase, and a decrease in full-length Bid, suggesting possible cross-talk between the intrinsic and extrinsic apoptotic pathways. The role of the mitochondria was further suggested as exposure to cannabidiol led to loss of mitochondrial membrane potential and release of cytochrome c. It is noteworthy that cannabidiol exposure led to an increase in reactive oxygen species (ROS) production as well as an increase in the expression of the NAD(P)H oxidases Nox4 and p22phox. Furthermore, cannabidiol-induced apoptosis and reactive oxygen species (ROS) levels could be blocked by treatment with the ROS scavengers or the NAD(P)H oxidase inhibitors. Finally, cannabidiol exposure led to a decrease in the levels of p-p38 mitogen-activated protein kinase, which could be blocked by treatment with a CB2-selective antagonist or ROS scavenger. Together, the results from this study reveal that cannabidiol, acting through CB2 and regulation of Nox4 and p22phox expression, may be a novel and highly selective treatment for leukemia.


Marijuana has been suggested as a potent therapeutic agent alleviating such complications as intraocular pressure in glaucoma and cachexia, nausea, and pain in AIDS and cancer patients. A number of recent studies now suggest the possible use of these compounds for the treatment of cannabinoid receptor-expressing tumors. For example, anandamide was shown to inhibit the proliferation of the human breast cancer cell lines MCF-7 and EFM-19 in vitro (De Petrocellis et al., 1998 (http://molpharm.aspetjournals.org/content/70/3/897.full#ref-7)). In addition, THC was shown to induce apoptosis in human prostate PC-3 cells and in C6 glioma cells in culture (Sanchez et al., 1998 (http://molpharm.aspetjournals.org/content/70/3/897.full#ref-29); Ruiz et al., 1999 (http://molpharm.aspetjournals.org/content/70/3/897.full#ref-26); Galve-Roperh et al., 2000 (http://molpharm.aspetjournals.org/content/70/3/897.full#ref-11)). THC-induced apoptosis involved cannabinoid receptor-dependent (Sanchez et al., 1998 (http://molpharm.aspetjournals.org/content/70/3/897.full#ref-29); Galve-Roperh et al., 2000 (http://molpharm.aspetjournals.org/content/70/3/897.full#ref-11)) or -independent pathways (Ruiz et al., 1999 (http://molpharm.aspetjournals.org/content/70/3/897.full#ref-26)). Such studies have triggered interest in targeting cannabinoid receptors in vivo to induce apoptosis in transformed cells. To this end, cannabinoids were shown to inhibit the growth of C6 glioma cells in vivo (Sanchez et al., 2001 (http://molpharm.aspetjournals.org/content/70/3/897.full#ref-28)). Furthermore, recent studies from our laboratory demonstrated that targeting cannabinoid receptors may be a novel approach to treating lymphoblastic disease (McKallip et al., 2002 (http://molpharm.aspetjournals.org/content/70/3/897.full#ref-22)).
A significant limitation to the use of a number of these compounds is their unwanted psychotropic activity. Cannabidiol (CBD) is a nonpsychoactive derivative of marijuana that is currently being examined for its use in the treatment of cancer. For example, Massi et al. (2004 (http://molpharm.aspetjournals.org/content/70/3/897.full#ref-21)) demonstrated that cannabidiol was capable of suppressing the proliferation of human glioma cell lines. In addition, the HL-60 myeloblastic cell line was shown to be sensitive to CBD-induced apoptosis, whereas monocytes from healthy subjects were relatively resistant to CBD-induced apoptosis, suggesting that CBD may be effective at treating acute myelogenous leukemia (Gallily et al., 2003 (http://molpharm.aspetjournals.org/content/70/3/897.full#ref-10)).

[NIU Students for Liberty]

Romney vows to lose the election.

[green73]

Mitt Romney vs Ron Paul on medical marijuana

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljEljZX52x8

[Dr.3D]

Oh crap, does this mean 4 more years of Obama?

[RonRules]

Coffee and Tea are next!

[Dr.3D]

Coffee and Tea are next!
Don't forget, chocolate has caffeine in it too.

[jkr]

that right flippermint tell me what to eat

no tea
no coffee
no apricot seeds
NO FUCKING CURES FOR CANCER THAT YOU CAN GROW IN YOUR YARD

NOTHING

HE WILL TELL YOU WHAT TO THINK
HE WILL TELL YOU WHAT TO EAT
HE WILL TELL YOU HOW TO TAKE CARE OF YOUR MEDICAL NEEDS
HE WILL BAIL OUT THE IDOL RICH AND TROW THE WORKING MAN IN THE GUTTER
HE WILL LET CENTRAL BANKS SET THE PRICE OF EVERYTHING ON THE PLANET THROUGH MANIPULATION OF MARKETS (ppss, thats US)
HE WILL EMPLOY AND ARM YOUR NEIGHBOR TO BE YOUR OVERSEER, TAX YOU LABOR, AND ATTACK YOU WHILE YO SLEEP
HE WILL DEFINE EVERY ACTIVITY, FUNCTION, AND BEHAVIOR
HE WILL TELL YOU HE CAN KILL YOU WITH A REMOTE CONTROL PLANE FOR ANY REASON-OR NO REASON
HE WILL SUPPORT THE STATE AND ITS FORCES BEING USED AGAINST THE AMERICAN PEOPLE
HE WILL BUILD MORE PRISONS
HE WILL FILL THEM
HE WILL SHILL FOR THE mic/PERTOCHEM/pirison indust/ PHARMA/ FIAT CURRENCY/BAD AGG AND EVERYTHING EVIL AND UNNATURAL COMPLEX
HE WILL INSTAL MORE SCANNERS AND SNIFFERS AND DEATH RAYS
L00KS TO ME LIKE HE IS RUNNING FOR GOD NOT PRESIDENT...WAIT HE IS


AMERICANS!
STOP
THIS
MAN

NOMINATE RON PAUL IN TAMPA

[RonRules]

The OP video:
77 likes, 3,342 dislikes

I don't think I've ever seen such a high dislike ratio since Roberta Black's "Friday" song.

[GeorgiaAvenger]

Well, there goes the California vote.

:DThat is overrated. Most people are not voting because of marijuana in California. Most people in California do not support it.

[jkr]

That is overrated. Most people are not voting because of marijuana in California. Most people in California do not support it.

TOO MANY BENEFIT "good" and "bad" guys...

[dannno]

That is overrated. Most people are not voting because of marijuana in California. Most people in California do not support it.

What the hell are you talking about? Support for mmj in ca is like 80+%... Nationwide it approaches 70%...

Most people support legal mj in ca, maybe not most voters but even then a lot of mj supporters voted against prop 19 cuz they thought it would lead to Marlboro taking over the mj industry.

[RonRules]

Most people in California do not support it.

The vote narrowly lost, because in the last couple of weeks before the vote, the "farmers" and collectives realized the overall legalization would collapse prices. They preferred to keep things as they were and get high dollar from Med MJ only.

Now, I bet they're regretting that vote.

BTW, I don't do the stuff. For me it's for liberty that I support it.

[JK/SEA]

Anybody wanna talk about Ron being his VP?

[Peace Piper]

The vote narrowly lost, because in the last couple of weeks before the vote, the "farmers" and collectives realized the overall legalization would collapse prices. They preferred to keep things as they were and get high dollar from Med MJ only.

It was much *much* more complicated than that.

"Stoners Against the Prop. 19 Tax Cannabis Initiative"
http://votetaxcannabis2010.blogspot.com/p/read-this-before-you-vote-prop-19.html

READ THIS BEFORE YOU VOTE: PROP. 19, A PANDORA’S BOX OF UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES

Prop. 19 claims to do two things for recreational cannabis consumers: allow possession of 1 oz. or less and cultivation in a 5’x5’ space. ("Legalization" ROFL) But read the initiative and you’ll see these rights are not guaranteed, and come with conditions that render Prop. 19 largely ineffective at achieving either of those aims. Still, supporters of Proposition 19 argue that it’s a baby step in the right direction. If the right direction is toward increased prohibition, unlimited taxation (even on cultivation for personal use), the demise of Prop. 215, the corporate cartelization of cannabis and an expanded black market, they’re right. We’ve come a long way from the days of speculation about what could happen under Prop. 19. Now we have our first examples of what will happen. In spite of what it claims to do, this initiative is a Pandora’s Box of unintended consequences whose effects will be extremely difficult to undo if we vote yes on Prop. 19.

Prop. 19’s main objective is to remove the criminal-record stigma of marijuana possession. But in October, California’s recreational pot smokers scored a huge victory. Gov. Schwarzenegger signed a bill that downgraded the status of possession of 1 oz or less from a “non-arrestable, non-jailable misdemeanor” that was punishable with a $100 fine to a mere “infraction”--like driving above the speed limit--which carries with it no criminal-record stigma. That means Californians may now possess up to one ounce without getting arrested, without going to jail, without getting a criminal record, and without being excluded from federal student aid and other government programs. So, of Prop. 19’s two objectives, California has already independently achieved one.

However, voting yes on Prop. 19 would actually create new prohibitions on possession, whereas the new infraction status does not. This is because Prop. 19 wouldn’t legalize possession outright. Instead it would make some cannabis “lawful” and other cannabis “unlawful,” depending on where you buy it. The new infraction status does not make such distinctions; it doesn’t matter where you buy it, if you have 1 oz. or less, it’s not a crime. So, by prohibiting possession of marijuana that was not “obtained lawfully,” Prop. 19 would actually be more restrictive than the infraction law would be...(more at link)



Now, I bet they're regretting that vote.

No one I know. Getting the law right the first time is important, since "revisions" usually are more restrictive rather than less.


BTW, I don't do the stuff. For me it's for liberty that I support it.

"the Stuff" is an herb that the Feds hold a patent on:

Cannabinoids as antioxidants and neuroprotectants

http://www.google.com/patents/US6630507

"Cannabinoids have been found to have antioxidant properties, unrelated to NMDA receptor antagonism. This new found property makes cannabinoids useful in the treatment and prophylaxis of wide variety of oxidation associated diseases, such as ischemic, age-related, inflammatory and autoimmune diseases. The cannabinoids are found to have particular application as neuroprotectants, for example in limiting neurological damage following ischemic insults, such as stroke and trauma, or in the treatment of neurodegenerative diseases, such as Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease and HIV dementia...."

Perhaps the Feds are just protecting their patent (which actually belongs to the people of the US)

[jkr]

that calim expired a few years ago...AmP'd UP "wor" on "drugs" then followed

get it
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-O39RlDzt8Go/TlZF1YpJkKI/AAAAAAAAD6Y/PsqVGxFQUdU/s320/JohnBelushi-AnimalHouse-Zit.jpg
???

[Sola_Fide]

If Romney had his way, the Word of Wisdom would be his first executive order.

[DerailingDaTrain]

The one position he hasn't flip flopped on....yet

[cajuncocoa]

Anybody wanna talk about Ron being his VP?LOL

[Tudo]

I wish everyone in the romney family a long and prosperous life.......with bone cancer in a place where marijuana is illegal and unavailable.

[Tudo]

Well, there goes the California vote.

:D

As if there's even a legitimate election.

[DamianTV]

Then we must fight Romney, and those of his kind, tooth and nail!

[trey4sports]

facepalm.

[JK/SEA]

LOL

yeah really. Guess not.

[mport1]

What a disgusting human being.

[Brett85]

When was this video taken?

[DamianTV]

When was this video taken?

Does it really matter?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=unu-sbtp65A

[COpatriot]

Hurray more government intrusion in our lives from a man who promises to stop it!

What a fucking joke.

[Brett85]

Does it really matter?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=unu-sbtp65A

Well, Romney flips his positions about every few days, so I was hoping he supported medical marijuana by now. :)

[Lucille]

When was this video taken?

It was uploaded today, it says it's from a townhall in NH, and he was there last week.

Related: 56 Percent Of Americans Favor Legal Marijuana In New Poll (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/22/legalize-marijuana-56-percent-rasmussen-poll_n_1537706.html)


Neill Franklin, a retired Baltimore narcotics cop and the executive director of advocacy group Law Enforcement Against Prohibition, sees the poll as a political weather vane pointing toward the future.

"Polling now consistently shows that more voters support legalizing and regulating marijuana than support continuing a failed prohibition approach," he said in a statement Tuesday. "Yet far too many politicians continue to act as if marijuana policy reform is some dangerous third rail they dare not touch. If the trends in public opinion continue in the direction they are going, the day is not far away when supporting a prohibition system that causes so much crime, violence and corruption is going to be seen as a serious political liability for those seeking support from younger and independent voters. Savvy forward-looking politicians are already beginning to see which way the wind is blowing."

[Brett85]

Why exactly is Mitt Romney taking a position that 70-80% of the American people disagree with? I thought he actually wanted to win the election?

[JK/SEA]

Why exactly is Mitt Romney taking a position that 70-80% of the American people disagree with? I thought he actually wanted to win the election?

no. this has already been established at State Conventions where Ron Paul supporters were relegated to 3rd world status.

[Lucille]

Why exactly is Mitt Romney taking a position that 70-80% of the American people disagree with? I thought he actually wanted to win the election?


no. this has already been established at State Conventions where Ron Paul supporters were relegated to 3rd world status.

Mitt Romney: In Your Heart, You Know He’s A Loser (http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2012/03/29/mitt-romney-in-your-heart-you-know-hes-a-loser/)
Are the Republicans deliberately throwing the presidential election?


On the one hand, the GOP is telling us Obama is leading us down the road to "socialism," that he’s "appeasing" our enemies and stiffing our friends, and that he’s basically destroying the country. On the other hand, they haven’t put forth a candidate who has a chance in heck of beating him. The leading candidate for the party’s nomination is a caricature of everything voters are sick and tired of: he’s a phony, a spoiled rich guy, an automaton whose words and actions convey, above all, an almost comical impression of inauthenticity.
[...]
Romney isn’t so much a serious candidate for the presidency as he is a national joke: his record as a "flip-flopper," his inability to project anything remotely resembling sincerity, and his Richie Rich persona have all combined to turn him into a human piñata for both liberals and conservatives to pick apart. Which leads us back to the question I asked at the beginning: is the GOP deliberately throwing this election?

[Lucille]

Re: Legalized Marijuana (http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/116419.html)


Lew: If Big-Pharma could figure out an effective way to limit marijuana production, it would quickly be given a patent on the resulting product, to be sold only by prescription ($50 per joint dose?) At this point, Mitt and other members of the political establishment would become ardent supporters of the drug, striking poses as "humanitarians" sensitive to the physical pains of others. Anyone found smoking this naturally-occurring plant would then be prosecuted for patent infringement.

[Brett85]

I'd like for someone to ask Romney how he squares his position of "fighting medical marijuana tooth and nail" with the 10th amendment.

[Sola_Fide]

I'd like for someone to ask Romney how he squares his position of "fighting medical marijuana tooth and nail" with the 10th amendment.


I really think you guys are looking at the political component of this and not seeing the religious component. To be against caffeine and drugs is a vitally important aspect of Mormon theology. They think God (who for them is an exalted man who is from a planet orbiting a star called Kolob) gave Joseph Smith a revelation that caffeine, tobacco, and other drugs were to be avoided:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_of_Wisdom

(Joseph Smith, like many others, was influenced by the Jacksonian-era "clean living movement".)

[cstarace]

I can't believe there are still people who disagree with the premise of legalizing marijuana. I honestly don't understand where these people are coming from. When we're talking about crystal meth, heroin, cocaine, I understand. I disagree, but I can at least understand their rationalization. What's the argument against marijuana? Seriously?

[Brett85]

I really think you guys are looking at the political component of this and not seeing the religious component. To be against caffeine and drugs is a vitally important aspect of Mormon theology. They think God (who for them is an exalted man who is from a planet orbiting a star called Kolob) gave Joseph Smith a revelation that caffeine, tobacco, and other drugs were to be avoided:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_of_Wisdom

(Joseph Smith, like many others, was influenced by the Jacksonian-era "clean living movement".)

I thought I heard that Joseph Smith was drunk when he wrote the Book of Mormon.

[Sola_Fide]

I thought I heard that Joseph Smith was drunk when he wrote the Book of Mormon.

Well, under the influence of some kind of spirit for sure.

[PierzStyx]

Don't forget, chocolate has caffeine in it too.

Its not about caffeine. Mormons believe that God has told us back in 1832 not to drink coffee, tea from the actual tea plant (so green, black, and white tea), alcohol, and tobacco. Many Mormons don't drink caffeinated drinks reasoning that caffeine links coffee and tea and is harmful (which is true it is harmful). BUt drinking or eating things with caffeine in them is not forbidden by religious practice.

[DamianTV]

Well, under the influence of some kind of spirit for sure.

Oh! Ha ha! I get it! "Spirit" meaning "Liquor", not ghost!

[Sola_Fide]

Its not about caffeine. Mormons believe that God has told us back in 1832 not to drink coffee, tea from the actual tea plant (so green, black, and white tea), alcohol, and tobacco. Many Mormons don't drink caffeinated drinks reasoning that caffeine links coffee and tea and is harmful (which is true it is harmful). BUt drinking or eating things with caffeine in them is not forbidden by religious practice.

Pierz,

Do you think my connection of the WoW and Mitt's opposition to mmj has any validity?

[PierzStyx]

I really think you guys are looking at the political component of this and not seeing the religious component. To be against caffeine and drugs is a vitally important aspect of Mormon theology. They think God (who for them is an exalted man who is from a planet orbiting a star called Kolob) gave Joseph Smith a revelation that caffeine, tobacco, and other drugs were to be avoided:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_of_Wisdom

(Joseph Smith, like many others, was influenced by the Jacksonian-era "clean living movement".)

You are incorrect on your particulars. My comment on the same page as this one straightens out that caffeine isn't forbidden. And God doesn't live on Kolob. Kolob, which is most likely related to the Hebrew word kawkab (meaning "eternal") is a star. God lives in Heaven, not on a star. Though Paul did use a star (the Sun) as a symbol of Heaven and the greatest Resurrection so that symbolic relation of God, Heaven, and perfection to the brightest stars is not un-Christian.

And I can do you one better than Wikipedia. Read the actual revelation from God to Joseph Smith: Doctrine and Covenants 89. http://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/89?lang=eng Given in 1833 it lays out what God forbids us to partake into our bodies, and also gives guidelines on eating healthily. The idea is that our bodies are temples, and as such they should be well taken care of by us because they are sacred. ANd I can't think one any one of us here would really disagree with it as advice for healthy living.

[Sola_Fide]

You are incorrect on your particulars. My comment on the same page as this one straightens out that caffeine isn't forbidden. And God doesn't live on Kolob. Kolob, which is most likely related to the Hebrew word kawkab (meaning "eternal") is a star. God lives in Heaven, not on a star. Though Paul did use a star (the Sun) as a symbol of Heaven and the greatest Resurrection so that symbolic relation of God, Heaven, and perfection to the brightest stars is not un-Christian.

And I can do you one better than Wikipedia. Read the actual revelation from God to Joseph Smith: Doctrine and Covenants 89. http://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/89?lang=eng Given in 1833 it lays out what God forbids us to partake into our bodies, and also gives guidelines on eating healthily. The idea is that our bodies are temples, and as such they should be well taken care of by us because they are sacred. ANd I can't think one any one of us here would really disagree with it as advice for healthy living.

Okay. But I didn't say you thought God LIVES on a planet orbiting a star called Kolob, I said you think God is FROM a planet orbiting a star called Kolob. You don't believe that God was God from all eternity like the Bible says, you believe he was a man who became worthy enough by his works to become a god.

If I'm misrepresenting Mormonism, please correct what I've said.

[PierzStyx]

Pierz,

Do you think my connection of the WoW and Mitt's opposition to mmj has any validity?

I don't know for sure, but I don't think so. Did George W. Bush's or Ronald Reagan's? I think the real issue is "conservative" culture. It says mmj is "bad" and so Romney (and many of my fellow church members) think so. I really think its an extension of groupthink. "We identify with Republicans. Republicans say mmj is bad. We're Republicans. So we think mmj is bad." He might use the Word of Wisdom as justification, but isn't the source.

I really think if most of my fellow LDS really evaluated mmj from the perspective of the Word of Wisdom, they'd come to a different conclusion. In the Word of Wisdom God says that every herb has been created by Him and are to be used properly, but that they have uses. For instance the WoW cites the usage of tobacco as a medicinal for bruises (because tobacco juice has a numbing effect I think) and sick cattle (which I've been told by farmers can be used to clean a sick cow out). Marijuana is another herb. Yes it can be abused. But just because it can be abused doesn't mean that it, like alcohol or tobacco, doesn't have a valid medicinal usage. When I've approached this issue from this perspective with most LDS, they end up agreeing with me. So I really think its a US political culture thing than anything else.

[specsaregood]

//

[Ender]

Also, the Word of Wisdom was not initially given as a commandment but as a word of wisdom.

The WoW never talks about tea or coffee particularly but about "hot drinks" being bad for the body and belly. This is true. Later this was interpreted to mean tea/coffee/caffeine. Caffeine also has healing properties and is fantastic for getting rid of migraines.

It is said that the day after Smith gave the WoW, he drove through town in his buggy with a cigar hanging out of his mouth; he was one to always try and tease the church members.

The WoW was given: "In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days, I have warned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—"

When one thinks of Big Pharma, Monsanto, the WoD etc. this idea seems pretty enlightening.

[AdamT]

Class A ass right there.

[PierzStyx]

Okay. But I didn't say you thought God LIVES on a planet orbiting a star called Kolob, I said you think God is FROM a star orbiting a star called Kolob. You don't believe that God was God from all eternity like the Bible says, you believe he was a man who became worthy enough by his works to become a god.

If I'm misrepresenting Mormonism, please correct what I've said.

God is not from a star called Kolob. Kolob is mention actually as part of an extended metaphor. The metaphor is that because Kolob has a "slower" (my words, not a direct quote) time frame (its rotation is slower, and it is bigger, or at least "greater", meaning time is slower there-a startling understanding of relativity for a backwoods farm boy born in 1805) than the Sun's, that Kolob is greater than the Sun because its time frame is closest to God's. The metaphor then extends and says that in a likewise manner among all the intelligent beings ever you have some who are greater, more spiritually developed and spiritually smarter, than others and this starts with the smallest being and extends all the way up, including humanity, until you get to the greatest, smartest, most spiritually developed being, God Himself. It then concludes just as Kolob is greater than the Sun because it is larger, brighter, closer to the idea of "eternal", and has more "light", God is greater than us because He is smartest of all, eternal, and is full of all light and truth. Therefore we should obey God, because He is greatest of all.

As for God, and becoming a god, I will explain our beliefs. I do believe that God is from everlasting to everlasting. But what does that mean? We exist in Time, a defined reality set by a beginning and an end. But God is not that way. He exists in Eternity, beyond Time and beyond any form of our measure. He existed before Time itself was formed, since He was the one who created the Universe and began the space-time actions that we use to define Time itself. He is before all things, and is after all things. Since He was God before Time existed He is by definition God from all eternity without beginning and without end since things only begin and end in Time, not Eternity. Metaphysically it might be best to say God Is, or as Moses quotes Him, "I AM."

As for being a man, this is a normal we say it. But it isn't strictly true. God is not a man, but rather man is of God. We are His spiritual children and His love is so great, His grace so powerful, that He makes it possible that we should become like Him. Western Christianity calls this deification, the Orthodox believe in it religiously and call it theosis. Call it what you will, we take the statement of the Psalmist and Christ direct and true. Pslams 82:6 says "Ye are gods, the sons of the Most High" and John 10:34-36 uses this scripture with Jesus asking that if they (his accusers) are called gods for being children of the Most High, then why was it blasphemy for Him to call Himself the Son of God. C.S. Lewis repeatedly said that there was never such a thing as an "average" person but that everyone you say was a potential god or goddess. We have potential to become like Him, by His power. Not by works, we can't make ourselves gods. But only as He fills us with His overwhelming light and purity so that all sin and darkness are eradicated from us and we become new beings through the grace of God and Atonement of Christ. Our nature changes and we become like them,gods and goddesses, the sons and daughters of God the Father.

So God is not a sinful imperfect man. Indeed He never was. True He passed through a stage of mortality before He made this world. But so has Christ. Did Jesus' passage through mortality make Him sinful and imperfect, or un-divine? No. It is the same with the Father in our belief. Just as Jesus was divine even in His mortal experience so was the Father in His.

Now I know you'll not agree with me. Much of that is not contained in the Bible. And you're probably not ready to read the modern day revelations and pray about them. So I'm fairly certain you'll not accept what I've said. But hopefully you'll at least have a better understanding what you disagree with.

[PierzStyx]

Also, the Word of Wisdom was not initially given as a commandment but as a word of wisdom.

The WoW never talks about tea or coffee particularly but about "hot drinks" being bad for the body and belly. This is true. Later this was interpreted to mean tea/coffee/caffeine. Caffeine also has healing properties and is fantastic for getting rid of migraines.

It is said that the day after Smith gave the WoW, he drove through town in his buggy with a cigar hanging out of his mouth; he was one to always try and tease the church members.

The WoW was given: "In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days, I have warned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—"

When one thinks of Big Pharma, Monsanto, the WoD etc. this idea seems pretty enlightening.

I remember when that idea first struck me. I was dumbfounded with how obvious it was, for about 5 minutes.

Also, that story about Joseph does not surprise me. He always did have a great sense of humor.

It wasn't until the early 1900s that the WoW became a commandment all church members have to follow.

[QuickZ06]

Saying MJ is a gateway drug is one of the most retarded things I have ever heard in my life. True story.

[Ender]

As for God, and becoming a god, I will explain our beliefs. I do believe that God is from everlasting to everlasting. But what does that mean? We exist in Time, a defined reality set by a beginning and an end. But God is not that way. He exists in Eternity, beyond Time and beyond any form of our measure. He existed before Time itself was formed, since He was the one who created the Universe and began the space-time actions that we use to define Time itself. He is before all things, and is after all things. Since He was God before Time existed He is by definition God from all eternity without beginning and without end since things only begin and end in Time, not Eternity. Metaphysically it might be best to say God Is, or as Moses quotes Him, "I AM."



Indeed.

I have always felt that the meaning of the 3rd commandment was to not misuse I AM. I am bad, I am ugly, I am stupid, I am.....

[Ender]

Saying MJ is a gateway drug is one of the most retarded things I have ever heard in my life. True story.

Agreed.

[PierzStyx]

Indeed.

I have always felt that the meaning of the 3rd commandment was to not misuse I AM. I am bad, I am ugly, I am stupid, I am.....

That.....is a really fascinating thought. I feel like you might have something there.