BREAKING: Aurora Theater Killer Sent Incriminating Notebook to Psychiatrist Before Attack

[AuH20]

I was originally skeptical but this screams setup. A notebook depicting your murderous agenda sent to a psychiatrist???? REALLY??? Does someone in the shadows wants the public to really really believe he is 100% batshit crazy??

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/25/exclusive-movie-massacre-suspect-laid-out-plans-in-package-mailed-to/

[Kelly.]

so now the post office will need to open your letters, and hire a bunch of new people to do it.

saves the post office (temporarily) and allows more spying on 14 amendment CITIZENS.

what did i win?

[thoughtomator]

conveniently not opened until a week later... everything about this guy screams "government programmed assassin"

there are just way too many coincidences and odd things that can't easily be innocently explained

[Zippyjuan]

The guy wanted attention and fame it seems.

[JK/SEA]

found in the mailroom, doctor never saw it, and Bin Laden was buried at sea.

[AuH20]

I want handwriting analysis done on this notebook.

[Bruno]

In related news, a shredded up "suicide note" in some 30 pieces of yellow legal paper was discovered in Vince Foster's breifcase in plain view, after it had been thoroughly searched multiple times and those same pieces of paper went somehow inexplicably unnoticed.

Determined later to be a forgery. Now why would someone forge a suicide note....?

[Nickels]

The guy wanted attention and fame it seems.

no, silly! He couldn't have done it, this is proof he was set up!

[AuH20]

Pieces of bountiful evidence like this just don't fall from the sky in such an orderly fashion. This is a narrative being shaped, almost akin to the post-incident themes that intelligence agencies shape. It's almost too perfect. Life doesn't unfold in such a manner as we all know.

[Nickels]

I want handwriting analysis done on this notebook.

and if it turns out he wrote it, he must've done it at gun point. because there's no proof he wrote anything in the notebook voluntarily.

[CaptainAmerica]

Pieces of evidence like this just don't fall from the sky in such an orderly fashion. This is a narrative being shaped, almost akin to the post-incident narratives that intelligence agencies shape. It's almost too perfect. Life doesn't unfold in such a manner as we all know.

The prosecution team needs to prove that he pre-meditaded the killings and that he was "sane". I think its fabricated evidence.

[Brett85]

I'm glad that Ron Paul never spouts any of these conspiracy theories. Instead, he wrote a great column on how the government can't protect us from all harm.

http://www.eurasiareview.com/25072012-ron-paul-government-cannot-protect-us-from-all-possible-harm-oped/

[phill4paul]

So the police are called to the psychiatrists office over a suspicious package. Said package turns out to be nothing. The police decide to investigate the mailroom where they discover an package from the alleged shooter that had been languishing there for possibly over a week before the shooting took place.
Also, even though the police took possession of the package and are under a gag order a 'source' somehow leaked everything in it.
Interesting.

[Bruno]

"Police and FBI agents were called to the University of Colorado Anschutz medical campus in Aurora on Monday morning after the psychiatrist, who is also a professor at the school, reported receiving a package believed to be from the suspect. Although that package turned out to be from someone else and harmless, a search of the Campus Services' mailroom turned up another package sent to the psychiatrist with Holmes’ name in the return address, the source told FoxNews.com."

Now why would he suspect some other package as being from the killer, only to be completely mistaken, and then "well, lookey here! Says the policeman...look what we found!(drop gun, drop drugs, drop murderous rampage notebook, drop whatever we need)"

And how inept is the mailroom normally, that this was still not delivered?

And why did he tell his psychiatrist ahead of time what his plans were, when that would have foiled his plans if he had actually read this notebook?

[AuH20]

and if it turns out he wrote it, he must've done it at gun point. because there's no proof he wrote anything in the notebook voluntarily.

A handwriting analysis would alleviate my suspicion. I don't think they have pyschotropic drugs at their disposal that could influence someone to create a notebook of ghastly images and specific murder intentions.

[jmdrake]

and if it turns out he wrote it, he must've done it at gun point. because there's no proof he wrote anything in the notebook voluntarily.

And if it turns out that he didn't write it? Seriously folks, what's with the "Let's jump on everyone that asks questions" mentality of some here? AuH20 has not been in the "It must have been a false flag" camp. That doesn't mean anomalies aren't worth looking into.

[Bruno]

The guy wanted attention and fame it seems.

If he wanted fame and attention, then sending a notebook with your plans to someone a full week in advance, so they could potentially foil them (if not for an inept mailroom, perhaps) isn't the way to to it.

Keep the notebook in the apartment to find, after you tell law enforcement the place is boobytrapped. Oh wait, that raises even more questions...

[Sam I am]

conveniently not opened until a week later... everything about this guy screams "government programmed assassin"

there are just way too many coincidences and odd things that can't easily be innocently explained

your post count as I write this is 2,563. 2 and 6 make 8. 5 and 3 make 8.

There is a number above your post count. It's 2012(the year you joined) your post is the 3rd post in this thread. 2+0+1+2 + 3 = 8. The time you posted was at 1:58.

Your punctuation is odd considering that you're missing periods at the end of your sentences and the ellipses. you used 6 punctuations, but double quotes contain 2 strokes, so the punctuation you used contained 8 strokes.

Too many coincidences

[Sam I am]

// lag caused me to double-post

[AuH20]

And if it turns out that he didn't write it? Seriously folks, what's with the "Let's jump on everyone that asks questions" mentality of some here? AuH20 has not been in the "It must have been a false flag" camp. That doesn't mean anomalies aren't worth looking into.

Let's examine the anomalies for one:

(1) Adult friendfinder profile had "Will you visit me in prison" tagline attached to it
(2) Guttural, incoherent voice mail greeting which freaked out the gunclub representative
(3) Gas mask being dicarded on the other end of the theater complex significantly far away from the exit door and parking spot where Holmes was apprehended
(4) The recent discovery of this "mea culpa" notebook outlining the shooter's bloody goals in graphic fashion

Is someone going to extraordinary lengths to prove that Holmes was extremely dangerous and unstable?? That's what I'd guess.

[Bruno]

Let's examine the anomalies for one:

(1) Adult friendfinder profile had "Will you visit me in prison" tagline attached to it
(2) Guttural, incoherent voice mail greeting which freaked out the gunclub representative
(3) Gas mask being dicarded on the other end of the theater complex significantly far away from the exit door and parking spot where Holmes was apprehended
(4) The recent discovery of this "mea culpa" notebook outlining the shooter's bloody goals in graphic fashion

Is someone going to extraordinary lengths to prove that Holmes was extremely dangerous and unstable?? That's what I'd guess.

"Nothing to see here, folks, move along."

[Brett85]

If he wanted fame and attention, then sending a notebook with your plans to someone a full week in advance, so they could potentially foil them (if not for an inept mailroom, perhaps) isn't the way to to it.

The real answer to this is that the guy is simply nuts. He's insane. That's why he sent this notebook to the psychiatrist, that's why he simply sat in his car and allowed the police to catch him, that's why he's constantly spitting at guards in his jail cell. Because he's completely out of his mind. There are some people in this world who simply go nuts for whatever reason. This man is one of those people. There's no need to make this situation any more complicated than it actually is. It's very, very simple. A crazy guy killed a bunch of people in a theater.

[Brett85]

If he wanted fame and attention, then sending a notebook with your plans to someone a full week in advance, so they could potentially foil them (if not for an inept mailroom, perhaps) isn't the way to to it.

The real answer to this is that the guy is simply nuts. He's insane. That's why he sent this notebook to the psychiatrist, that's why he simply sat in his car and allowed the police to catch him, that's why he's constantly spitting at guards in his jail cell. Because he's completely out of his mind. There are some people in this world who simply go nuts for whatever reason. This man is one of those people. There's no need to make this situation any more complicated than it actually is. It's very, very simple. A crazy guy killed a bunch of people in a theater.

[TheGrinch]

Regardless of whether he was a lone gunman or a patsy, neither make this look any less fishy (not saying it is, but it's a bit convenient).

I mean, we all know that they never let a good crisis go to waste, so even if the government was in no way involved, does not preclude them from twisting this narrative in a way that fits agendas, and that could certainly include fabricating a document that fits into narratives they're trying to push.

There doesn't necessarily have to be some grand conspiracy (though I'm not going to jump to conclusions either way, and am happy to remain skeptical until its definitively shown otherwise), that doesn't mean that agendas aren't at play in what happens surrounding the event. We all know that they ALWAYS do, especially when the media is involved.

[Bruno]

The real answer to this is that the guy is simply nuts. He's insane. That's why he sent this notebook to the psychiatrist, that's why he simply sat in his car and allowed the police to catch him, that's why he's constantly spitting at guards in his jail cell. Because he's completely out of his mind. There are some people in this world who simply go nuts for whatever reason. This man is one of those people. There's no need to make this situation any more complicated than it actually is. It's very, very simple. A crazy guy killed a bunch of people in a theater.

That's one theory, certainly. Cops always look for motive, we will see what his is. You say he is nuts, but sane people kill people, too. And there is no evidence I have heard that he was "nuts". So, he quietly went nuts while completing his PhD program, without anyone knowing he was slipping into a crazed murderous rampage?

And yet we also have a missing second person, as has been mentioned.

[TheGrinch]

The real answer to this is that the guy is simply nuts. He's insane. That's why he sent this notebook to the psychiatrist, that's why he simply sat in his car and allowed the police to catch him, that's why he's constantly spitting at guards in his jail cell. Because he's completely out of his mind. There are some people in this world who simply go nuts for whatever reason. This man is one of those people. There's no need to make this situation any more complicated than it actually is. It's very, very simple. A crazy guy killed a bunch of people in a theater.
I find it hilarious how much more definitive the conspiracy-bashers are that they know exactly what happened in all instances, when 99% of the people asking questions are merely skeptics who haven't made their mind up yet whatsoever. I'd rather err on the side of skepticism than assume I know everything about everything personally.


And as I said above, him being lone gunman could be irrelevant to this new mysterious piece, that could easily be planted afterwards for various reasons.... Or are you trying to claim that no one has ever planted evidence before to suit their agenda?

[thoughtomator]

Let's examine the anomalies for one:

(1) Adult friendfinder profile had "Will you visit me in prison" tagline attached to it
(2) Guttural, incoherent voice mail greeting which freaked out the gunclub representative
(3) Gas mask being dicarded on the other end of the theater complex significantly far away from the exit door and parking spot where Holmes was apprehended
(4) The recent discovery of this "mea culpa" notebook outlining the shooter's bloody goals in graphic fashion

Is someone going to extraordinary lengths to prove that Holmes was extremely dangerous and unstable?? That's what I'd guess.

Keep in mind while all that was going on, no one who knew him noticed anything out of the ordinary or anything that would give any indication at all that he could or would potentially do something like this.

[Zippyjuan]

If he wanted fame and attention, then sending a notebook with your plans to someone a full week in advance, so they could potentially foil them (if not for an inept mailroom, perhaps) isn't the way to to it.

Keep the notebook in the apartment to find, after you tell law enforcement the place is boobytrapped. Oh wait, that raises even more questions...

It is unclear that it arrived before the assault. It was perhaps intended to arrive the day after the assault.

The source said the package had been in the mailroom since July 12, though another source who confirmed the discovery to FoxNews.com could not say if the package arrived prior to Friday's massacre. It was not clear why it had not been delivered to the psychiatrist. The notebook is now in possession of the FBI, sources told FoxNews.com.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/25/exclusive-movie-massacre-suspect-laid-out-plans-in-package-mailed-to/#ixzz21fF6SBsa

It sounds like the bombs in the apartment may have been intended as a distraction for the police while he started killing at the theater-(the loud music was set to start at midnight- a person entering to shut off the music or simply to check on it would have triggered the explosions he rigged and emergency crews including police would have gone there- in the meanwhile, the movie was to start at midnight. He bought a ticket and entered the movie. About ten minutes afterwards he went out the emergency exit, propped it open and went out for about ten minutes which would be 20 minutes after the loud music started. The plan may have included that the apartment would have gone up at this time. He was reportedly surprised to see the police outside the theater already when he left the building there. He expected them to be at his place instead.

[UtahApocalypse]

Let's examine the anomalies for one:

(1) Adult friendfinder profile had "Will you visit me in prison" tagline attached to it
(2) Guttural, incoherent voice mail greeting which freaked out the gunclub representative
(3) Gas mask being dicarded on the other end of the theater complex significantly far away from the exit door and parking spot where Holmes was apprehended
(4) The recent discovery of this "mea culpa" notebook outlining the shooter's bloody goals in graphic fashion

Is someone going to extraordinary lengths to prove that Holmes was extremely dangerous and unstable?? That's what I'd guess.

(3) Some police arriving put on gas masks to make entry. The same officers also carried out victims and placed them in their cars. The mask could be one of the police and not the suspect -- Devils Advocate

[Bruno]

It is unclear that it arrived before the assault. It was perhaps intended to arrive the day after the assault.




It was either sitting there since the 12th, or not. How does someone state that, and then someone else says it was now unclear? A mailroom knows when packages are delivered. That's what they do. Every day. Now perhaps they were so imcompetent that they not only didn't deliver packages on time, they incorrectly say they have been sitting there for 13 days and then retract that and say they aren't sure and it might have just shown up after the murders.

I'll leave that to the coincidence-theorists.

See post # 7.

[TheGrinch]

Let's examine the anomalies for one:

(1) Adult friendfinder profile had "Will you visit me in prison" tagline attached to it
(2) Guttural, incoherent voice mail greeting which freaked out the gunclub representative
(3) Gas mask being dicarded on the other end of the theater complex significantly far away from the exit door and parking spot where Holmes was apprehended
(4) The recent discovery of this "mea culpa" notebook outlining the shooter's bloody goals in graphic fashion

Is someone going to extraordinary lengths to prove that Holmes was extremely dangerous and unstable?? That's what I'd guess.
There were also witnesses of another guy on a cell-phone who let him in, including a reddit pla-by-play from a police scanner where they were searching for a second guy initially. I also saw something that a witness saw him and another guy running towards his apartment at 7PM, but I can't find a link to confirm.

[AuH20]

Keep in mind while all that was going on, no one who knew him noticed anything out of the ordinary or anything that would give any indication at all that he could or would potentially do something like this.

It doesn't add up. Why go to such lengths in terms of preparation and then leave disturbing clues all over the community about your deranged mental state, before even executing the plan??? And if he was driven by a thirst for fame, why prematurely blow up the plot that would guarantee you lifelong infamy??

[phill4paul]

When was the package post-marked? Or was it hand delivered?

[Bruno]

There were also witnesses of another guy on a cell-phone who let him in, including a reddit pla-by-play from a police scanner where they were searching for a second guy initially. I also saw something that a witness saw him and another guy running towards his apartment at 7PM, but I can't find a link to confirm.

Hmmm... I hadn't read #2 was on a cell phone. If so, who the heck was he talking to?

[Bruno]

When was the package post-marked? Or was it hand delivered?

Stop asking pertinent questions. No time for that. Just trust the cops and Fox News. :D

[Zippyjuan]

It was either sitting there since the 12th, or not. How does someone state that, and then someone else says it was now unclear? A mailroom knows when packages are delivered. That's what they do. Every day. Now perhaps they were so imcompetent that they not only didn't deliver packages on time, they incorrectly say they have been sitting there for 13 days and then retract that and say they aren't sure and it might have just shown up after the murders.

I'll leave that to the coincidence-theorists.

See post # 7.

They may not log every piece of mail but toss it into a bin to get sorted and delivered to the apropriate department. They may not have a record for when it was delivered. Unless they had to sign for it (say UPS or FedEx).

[Bruno]

They may not log every piece of mail but toss it into a bin to get sorted and delivered to the apropriate department. They may not have a record for when it was delivered. Unless they had to sign for it (say UPS or FedEx).

Possible, for sure. Unless it was hand-delivered, (by whom, if not by the suspect?) then there is either a postmark on it or it was tracked through an overnight carrier.

And if it was sitting in bin for 13 days, that person responsible for the inept mail delivery should be fired for incompetence that could have thwarted 12 deaths and 50+ other injuries.

[georgiaboy]

wait, he had a psychiatrist? Why?

eta: per the article, the psychiatrist wasn't necessarily seeing the suspect.

[Thor]

(3) Some police arriving put on gas masks to make entry. The same officers also carried out victims and placed them in their cars. The mask could be one of the police and not the suspect -- Devils Advocate

OK, so then where is his gas mask? All his other protective clothing and helmet are by the utility enclosure, and no evidence was moved supposedly. In all the pictures I did not see a gas mask by the rifle or the helmet and vest. I only saw a single gas mask.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

wait, he had a psychiatrist? Why?


Just because he sent something to a psychiatrist does not mean he "had" a psychiatrist.

[Zippyjuan]

wait, he had a psychiatrist? Why?

It doesn't say he had one. Says it was "a" psychatrist who was a professor at the school he was attending.

If it was hand delivered, he could have even been the one who dropped it off in the mailroom. Doesn't say how it was sent or delivered other than saying it had his name and return address on it.

[Bruno]

wait, he had a psychiatrist? Why?

eta: per the article, the psychiatrist wasn't necessarily seeing the suspect.

Not confirmed he was seeing the psychiatrist, or what their relationship might have been.

"Both sources said the intended recipient of Holmes’ notebook was a professor who also treated patients at the psychiatry outpatient facility, located in Building 500, where the first suspicious package was delivered. It could not be verified that the psychiatrist had had previous contact with Holmes, who was a dropout from the school’s neuroscience doctoral program and had studied various mental health issues and ailments as part of his curriculum."

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

OK, so then where is his gas mask? All his other protective clothing and helmet are by the utility enclosure, and no evidence was moved supposedly. In all the pictures I did not see a gas mask by the rifle or the helmet and vest. I only saw a single gas mask.

And the gas mask is so important because this is how the police say they identified him. I believe they said they thought he was swat until a few officers noticed he was wearing a non-issue gas mask. (so swat arrives on the scene, and has no fucking clue where their people are while they wait outside listening to gunfire is also included in that same claim, as far as I can tell. I say that because I have heard that you can hear gunfire on the scanners. I have not heard the audio, myself.)

[Thor]

And the gas mask is so important because this is how the police say they identified him. I believe they said they thought he was swat until a few officers noticed he was wearing a non-issue gas mask. (so swat arrives on the scene, and has no fucking clue where their people are while they wait outside listening to gunfire is also included in that same claim, as far as I can tell. I say that because I have heard that you can hear gunfire on the scanners. I have not heard the audio, myself.)

And the police chief is saying the gas mask was found on him with a rifle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7maaFiQQQP8). The rifle was found right at Theater 9 exit door where I assume he was apprehended, supposedly with the gas mask. So he had both the rifle and gas mask on him according the Dan Oates (Police Chief), which then the gas mask mysteriously moved 250 feet way? Or was it someone else's gas mask at the corner of the theater? If so, who? I mean the body armor and helmet was stripped off him it appears to be right by the utility enclosure next to his car and there is no mask there, and no mask by the rifle. But the police chief said the mask was on him and I see only 1 mask in the evidence photos.

[Anti Federalist]

found in the mailroom, doctor never saw it, and Bin Laden was buried at sea.

And completely undamaged passports belonging to the 9/11 hijackers floated down out of the conflagration, to land at the feet of FBI agents.

[Thor]

And according to this article from the OP of this thread (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/25/exclusive-movie-massacre-suspect-laid-out-plans-in-package-mailed-to/) it states:


After the gun jammed, Holmes allegedly walked out of the theater through the door he'd entered and was removing his body armor beside his car when he was confronted by the officers who took him down, the source said, adding that the gunman seemed surprised authorities arrived so quickly.

But didn't Police Chief Oates state that it was the sharp observation of 1 or 2 officers that notice an item of his gear (the gas mask some have said, but Oates also said he would not identify which item it was in another article) did not match the appropriate issued gear and when he was questioned by the officers it was then he was arrested - not when he was removing the armor. So this is a different version of when he was arrested.

[ZENemy]

And completely undamaged passports belonging to the 9/11 hijackers floated down out of the conflagration, to land at the feet of FBI agents.

Passports are THERMITE proof!! :D

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

And according to this article from the OP of this thread (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/25/exclusive-movie-massacre-suspect-laid-out-plans-in-package-mailed-to/) it states:



But didn't Police Chief Oates state that it was the sharp observation of 1 or 2 officers that notice an item of his gear (the gas mask some have said, but Oates also said he would not identify which item it was in another article) did not match the appropriate issued gear and when he was questioned by the officers it was then he was arrested - not when he was removing the armor. So this is a different version of when he was arrested.


As I remember, yes. Still possible the gas mask was someone else's (unless we can find identifying characteristics) or police just really fucked up the crime scene (which happens a lot.) But yeah, the story has changed several times now just like the Bin Laden issue.

As a certain website mentioned, there are cameras outside the theater on that side. We will never see them, or they were malfunctioning, I'm sure.

[awake]

Psychotropic drugs will be a well overlooked factor. Mark my words.

[PaulConventionWV]

The real answer to this is that the guy is simply nuts. He's insane. That's why he sent this notebook to the psychiatrist, that's why he simply sat in his car and allowed the police to catch him, that's why he's constantly spitting at guards in his jail cell. Because he's completely out of his mind. There are some people in this world who simply go nuts for whatever reason. This man is one of those people. There's no need to make this situation any more complicated than it actually is. It's very, very simple. A crazy guy killed a bunch of people in a theater.

Nobody just goes crazy like that. This stuff has been happening for a while, so we've gotten used to it, but none of it is just pure, plain insanity. It is either a crime of passion, psychotropic drugs, a mixture of some volatile circumstances, or it's a false flag. There are plenty of non-flase flag crimes, but nobody just goes batshit insane. You only say that because you've gotten used to the idea of this stuff happening, but it's not normal. Nobody is so completely irrational and helplessly crazy. He was a med student, for chrissakes. He was obviously able to hold it together for until he was 23, and all of a sudden he's crazy? I don't believe that for a second.

[PaulConventionWV]

It was either sitting there since the 12th, or not. How does someone state that, and then someone else says it was now unclear? A mailroom knows when packages are delivered. That's what they do. Every day. Now perhaps they were so imcompetent that they not only didn't deliver packages on time, they incorrectly say they have been sitting there for 13 days and then retract that and say they aren't sure and it might have just shown up after the murders.

I'll leave that to the coincidence-theorists.

See post # 7.

At first, I was doubtful that this might be a false flag, but this post just made me a hell of a lot more suspicious.

[PaulConventionWV]

When was the package post-marked? Or was it hand delivered?

We don't know because it's in the hands of the FBI now.

[Philhelm]

Hmmm... I hadn't read #2 was on a cell phone. If so, who the heck was he talking to?

If that's true, then I'd expect that he was talking to Holmes, to let him know that the door was opened.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

Nobody just goes crazy like that.

I disagree. (probably unpopularly) People can go nuts. People can take a drug and go nuts or do so spontaneously. This obvious wasn't spontaneous if we are to believe the media narrative. But there are certainly people that go nuts over short or long periods of time for a myriad of reasons and many we don't understand because we simply find it incomprehensible while looking inward. Maybe some of these people were sociopaths or nuts from birth, and it just took awhile to show, for instance. Here's one - John List. (imo, of course.)

I'm not saying nothing is wrong her, but your assertion that "Nobody just goes crazy like that." does not help the discussion. It's the mirror image of "The guy just went crazy" which is also not so helpful.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

If that's true, then I'd expect that he was talking to Holmes, to let him know that the door was opened.

If we see video of Holmes entering the theater, it may have been Holmes getting the call to open the door for someone else. Given everything I've read, it seems more likely Holmes was a heavily drugged patsy. Police apprehended a heavily armed shooter with no resistance? Had he been a dog, they'd have blown him to bits.

[Anti Federalist]

And within days, Bloomberg's anti gun front group has the funds to run a full page USA Today ad?

http://images.politico.com/global/2012/07/120725_demand_usatoday.html

I've used a rough rule of thumb to gauge the validity of events like this, including acts of "terrorism".

If the issue is glossed over and under reported and forgotten quickly, it's probably safe to assume that it was a "legit" incident.

If the howl and din of the propaganda machine cranks up right away and refuses to let an issue die, then it's probably safe to assume that it was a "false flag" or otherwise orchestrated or at the very least not being presented in a factually accurate way.

[Brian Coulter]

In related news, a shredded up "suicide note" in some 30 pieces of yellow legal paper was discovered in Vince Foster's breifcase in plain view, after it had been thoroughly searched multiple times and those same pieces of paper went somehow inexplicably unnoticed.

Determined later to be a forgery. Now why would someone forge a suicide note....?

I'd sooner cross the Mexican mafia than fuck with a Clinton. :eek:

[PaulConventionWV]

I disagree. (probably unpopularly) People can go nuts. People can take a drug and go nuts or do so spontaneously. This obvious wasn't spontaneous if we are to believe the media narrative. But there are certainly people that go nuts over short or long periods of time for a myriad of reasons and many we don't understand because we simply find it incomprehensible while looking inward. Maybe some of these people were sociopaths or nuts from birth, and it just took awhile to show, for instance. Here's one - John List. (imo, of course.)

I'm not saying nothing is wrong her, but your assertion that "Nobody just goes crazy like that." does not help the discussion. It's the mirror image of "The guy just went crazy" which is also not so helpful.

People go crazy on drugs, but they only do so spontaneously if it is a crime of passion, for example, boyfriend or husband kills ex-girlfriend or cheating wife in the heat of the moment or plans it out very simply.

What I'm saying is that nobody just goes insane over night for no reason and kills a bunch of random strangers for no reason. Nobody is so insane that they don't have a motive for their murder. Sometimes it's political, sometimes it's relationship-oriented, but people don't just go nuts without some outside factors, whether those be drugs, money, relationhsip problems, whatever. The people denying any sort of foul play here would have us believe that this guy just randomly decided to kill a bunch of people and spent months and thousands of dollars planning it out, all while being influenced by nothing but his own craziness. People just don't do that.

[Bruno]

Also odd as pointed out I believe in the main thread is:

Then: "He said he was the Joker"
Now: "We can't cofirm he said he was the Joker."

and:

"He said he was a cannabis user".

Who says that? I'm just trying to piece this all together.

"Hey, cops. I just murdered a bunch of people. I am sitting here calmly now waiting for you in my car. Why did you bust open my windows like that? Anyway, I am the Joker, and a cannabis user. That's about all you are going to get out of me. Oh, by the way, be careful when you search my apartment, I wouldn't want anyone to get killed, I booby-trapped it pretty elaborately. You're also going to discover a notebook full of detail on how I was going to kill all of these people. I mailed it ahead of time hoping someone would foil my elaborate plans for mayhem and notoriety. Even though I detailed all of this ahead of time, I will now be completely silent, "lawyer up", and not tell anyone what caused me to do all of this."

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

People go crazy on drugs, but they only do so spontaneously if it is a crime of passion, for example, boyfriend or husband kills ex-girlfriend or cheating wife in the heat of the moment or plans it out very simply.

What I'm saying is that nobody just goes insane over night for no reason and kills a bunch of random strangers for no reason. Nobody is so insane that they don't have a motive for their murder. Sometimes it's political, sometimes it's relationship-oriented, but people don't just go nuts without some outside factors, whether those be drugs, money, relationhsip problems, whatever. The people denying any sort of foul play here would have us believe that this guy just randomly decided to kill a bunch of people and spent months and thousands of dollars planning it out, all while being influenced by nothing but his own craziness. People just don't do that.

Ok, not for no reason, but I'm saying the reasons could be brain chemistry and they may have been stewing for who knows how long, or simply finally hit a peak.

That's not my position on this ordeal... I'm was only saying it is pretty much the same as saying "he just went nuts" which I do not believe, either.

[Bruno]

I'd sooner cross the Mexican mafia than fuck with a Clinton. :eek:

The latter is certainly not recommended!

http://whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/BODIES.html

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

Ok, not for no reason, but I'm saying the reasons could be brain chemistry and they may have been stewing for who knows how long, or simply finally hit a peak.

That's not my position on this ordeal... I'm was only saying it is pretty much the same as saying "he just went nuts" which I do not believe, either.


Oh, and I'd like to add that "he just went nuts" is likely part of the official narrative - which also says - "you never know who might go nuts, so we need to ban X. X, and X so people who just go nuts can't acquire these things." Flipping their logic is not a very useful tactic. After all, they have a bunch of dead people to trot out.

I get where you are coming from, but the "he just went nuts" crowd will only disagree based on the dead people and consider they are correct.

[jkob]

Not everything is a 'false flag'. You guys make Ron Paul look really bad with this stuff, isn't there a Hot Topics forum for a reason?

[Bruno]

Not everything is a 'false flag'. You guys make Ron Paul look really bad with this stuff, isn't there a Hot Topics forum for a reason?

Flag it for the mods to move it to Hot Topics then.

Ron wants transparency and questions asked. Sunlight is a great disinfectant. No, not everything is a false flag, but when you refuse to ask questions when things are suspicious, then you are doomed to find out decades later how true the suspicions were.

"U.S. complicit in sinking of Luisitania to get us to enter WWI? Hogwash!" -Confirmed
"MK-Ultra? You guys are crazy!" - Confirmed
"The U.S. has top secret programs to spy on all its citizens? You're a crazy conspiracy theorist!" - Confirmed
"Our government, through the Federal Reserve, has secretly been giving away trillions of dollars to foreign banks and companies? You sound like a crazy Ron Paul supporter!" - Confirmed

[phill4paul]

"Hey, cops. I just murdered a bunch of people. I am sitting here calmly now waiting for you in my car. Why did you bust open my windows like that? Anyway, I am the Joker, and a cannabis user. That's about all you are going to get out of me. Oh, by the way, be careful when you search my apartment, I wouldn't want anyone to get killed, I booby-trapped it pretty elaborately. You're also going to discover a notebook full of detail on how I was going to kill all of these people. I mailed it ahead of time hoping someone would foil my elaborate plans for mayhem and notoriety. Even though I detailed all of this ahead of time, I will now be completely silent, "lawyer up", and not tell anyone what caused me to do all of this."

See, you have a point here. I question why he was not blown away and go out shooting. Some say he may have to decided to get his story out. O.K. Then why did he 'lawyer up?' You would think he would be sitting around, with a shit eating grin, reminding them how they are such idiots he would have killed them if he hadn't warned them about the bombs. What exactly are these papers. A manifesto? If so then that is another reason why he mould mind going out in a blaze of glory. It is all very odd. Some things don't add up. But, it is still early. All is not known.

[Revolution9]

See, you have a point here. I question why he was not blown away and go out shooting. Some say he may have to decided to get his story out. O.K. Then why did he 'lawyer up?' You would think he would be sitting around, with a shit eating grin, reminding them how they are such idiots he would have killed them if he hadn't warned them about the bombs. What exactly are these papers. A manifesto? If so then that is another reason why he mould mind going out in a blaze of glory. It is all very odd. Some things don't add up. But, it is still early. All is not known.

The latest clincher is that his father is the brains behind the algorithm that can now track where every offshore account is and the money trail of how it got there. Bigger stuff than PROMIS and has already uncovered 16 trillion in offshore funds IIRC. So, we have a Satanic Cabal who is going to get their dirty funding channels killed and the guy who had the brains to write the computer program and database for this is the father of the alleged shooter and due to speak in Congress in a couple of weeks on the LIBOR crimes and the other money trails FICO has tracked down and their ramifications. Then we have a massive crime where his son is the fall guy and is sure to be used as an attempt to discredit his father by linkage.

Add that to the mix and I smell a bigger rat than before but if the money trail can be followed is the adage then we have more of a zeroing on where this op is emanating from.

Rev9

[Philhelm]

See, you have a point here. I question why he was not blown away and go out shooting. Some say he may have to decided to get his story out. O.K. Then why did he 'lawyer up?' You would think he would be sitting around, with a shit eating grin, reminding them how they are such idiots he would have killed them if he hadn't warned them about the bombs. What exactly are these papers. A manifesto? If so then that is another reason why he mould mind going out in a blaze of glory. It is all very odd. Some things don't add up. But, it is still early. All is not known.

Maybe he pussed out last minute and decided not to kill himself or get in a firefight with the police. Maybe he just decided not to carry through with everything after he shot up the theater (remorse, perhaps?), so decided to warn the police of the booby-trapped apartment. Or perhaps he was harmed/threatened by the police, when questioned, into admitting that his apartment was booby-trapped?

[Bruno]

The latest clincher is that his father is the brains behind the algorithm that can now track where every offshore account is and the money trail of how it got there. Bigger stuff than PROMIS and has already uncovered 16 trillion in offshore funds IIRC. So, we have a Satanic Cabal who is going to get their dirty funding channels killed and the guy who had the brains to write the computer program and database for this is the father of the alleged shooter and due to speak in Congress in a couple of weeks on the LIBOR crimes and the other money trails FICO has tracked down and their ramifications. Then we have a massive crime where his son is the fall guy and is sure to be used as an attempt to discredit his father by linkage.

Add that to the mix and I smell a bigger rat than before but if the money trail can be followed is the adage then we have more of a zeroing on where this op is emanating from.

Rev9

Are you kidding me? That is one CRAZY coincidence! Got a link for that?

[moostraks]

The latest clincher is that his father is the brains behind the algorithm that can now track where every offshore account is and the money trail of how it got there. Bigger stuff than PROMIS and has already uncovered 16 trillion in offshore funds IIRC. So, we have a Satanic Cabal who is going to get their dirty funding channels killed and the guy who had the brains to write the computer program and database for this is the father of the alleged shooter and due to speak in Congress in a couple of weeks on the LIBOR crimes and the other money trails FICO has tracked down and their ramifications. Then we have a massive crime where his son is the fall guy and is sure to be used as an attempt to discredit his father by linkage.

Add that to the mix and I smell a bigger rat than before but if the money trail can be followed is the adage then we have more of a zeroing on where this op is emanating from.

Rev9


whoa....where'd I miss this?

[thoughtomator]

Maybe he pussed out last minute and decided not to kill himself or get in a firefight with the police. Maybe he just decided not to carry through with everything after he shot up the theater (remorse, perhaps?), so decided to warn the police of the booby-trapped apartment. Or perhaps he was harmed/threatened by the police, when questioned, into admitting that his apartment was booby-trapped?

Remorse doesn't square with the reports that he's spitting on cops so much that they are forcing him to wear a face shield. Nor does it square with his apparent lack of emotion (and, for that matter, awareness) in court. Nor does it square with the report that he actually asked how the movie ended. Nor does it square with a "lawyer up and shut up" legal strategy.

[moostraks]

Are you kidding me? That is one CRAZY coincidence! Got a link for that?


yeah +1000

[MelissaWV]

See, you have a point here. I question why he was not blown away and go out shooting. Some say he may have to decided to get his story out. O.K. Then why did he 'lawyer up?' You would think he would be sitting around, with a shit eating grin, reminding them how they are such idiots he would have killed them if he hadn't warned them about the bombs. What exactly are these papers. A manifesto? If so then that is another reason why he mould mind going out in a blaze of glory. It is all very odd. Some things don't add up. But, it is still early. All is not known.

If you keep quiet and "look dazed" and there's a notebook showing you're crazy, odds are you will actually live long enough and in semi-comfort. You might even live long enough to stay infamous. No, that's not an assertion, but it's not as bonkers as it sounds. I don't think this guy wanted to die. If he did, and assuming he is the one that set the "traps" we keep hearing about, he could have just blown up the entire theater and taken ALL of the viewers with him. There are a few quiet details that keep circling around for me, but between the "gun law" people on one side and the "government assassin" people on the other, it's likely everyone will just see what they want to see.

[phill4paul]

The latest clincher is that his father is the brains behind the algorithm that can now track where every offshore account is and the money trail of how it got there. Bigger stuff than PROMIS and has already uncovered 16 trillion in offshore funds IIRC. So, we have a Satanic Cabal who is going to get their dirty funding channels killed and the guy who had the brains to write the computer program and database for this is the father of the alleged shooter and due to speak in Congress in a couple of weeks on the LIBOR crimes and the other money trails FICO has tracked down and their ramifications. Then we have a massive crime where his son is the fall guy and is sure to be used as an attempt to discredit his father by linkage.

Add that to the mix and I smell a bigger rat than before but if the money trail can be followed is the adage then we have more of a zeroing on where this op is emanating from.

Rev9

I'm with Bruno. Linky. That is one HELL of a find if true. In fact, I'd have to say that this would be the clencher for me w/ regards to a covert op to monkey wrench the works.

[moostraks]

Are you kidding me? That is one CRAZY coincidence! Got a link for that?
Found this so far....http://www.fourwinds10.net/siterun_data/government/war/terrorism_war/news.php?q=1343231885

[phill4paul]

If you keep quiet and "look dazed" and there's a notebook showing you're crazy, odds are you will actually live long enough and in semi-comfort. You might even live long enough to stay infamous. No, that's not an assertion, but it's not as bonkers as it sounds. I don't think this guy wanted to die. If he did, and assuming he is the one that set the "traps" we keep hearing about, he could have just blown up the entire theater and taken ALL of the viewers with him. There are a few quiet details that keep circling around for me, but between the "gun law" people on one side and the "government assassin" people on the other, it's likely everyone will just see what they want to see.

Good points. And, as I couched my hypothesis...


But, it is still early. All is not known.

[ZENemy]

Sounds JUST like the tapes the Virginia tech shooter sent to the media BEFORE the crime, remember? I think the tapes he sent came out about a WEEK later!

[ZENemy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seung-Hui_Cho


Media package sent to NBC News
Screenshot from the MSNBC coverage of several videos Seung-Hui Cho sent to NBC News
One of the self-portraits Cho included with manifesto sent to NBC News

During the time period between the two shooting events on April 16, Cho visited a local post office near the Virginia Tech campus where he mailed a parcel with a DVD inside to the New York headquarters of NBC News, which contained video clips, photographs and a manifesto explaining the reasons for his actions.[115] The package, addressed from "A. Ishmael" as seen on an image of the USPS Express Mail envelope (incorrectly printed as "Ismail" by The New York Times)[116] and apparently intended to be received on April 17, was delayed because of an incorrect ZIP code and street address. The words "Ismail Ax" were scrawled in red ink on Cho's arm.[117]
Release of material

Upon receiving the package on April 18, 2007, NBC contacted authorities and made the controversial decision to publicize Cho's communications by releasing a small fraction of what it received.[118] After pictures and images from the videos were broadcast in numerous news reports, students and faculty from Virginia Tech, along with relatives of victims of the campus shooting, expressed concerns that glorifying Cho's rampage could lead to copycat killings. The airing of the manifesto and its video images and pictures was upsetting to many who were more closely affected by the shootings: Peter Read, the father of Mary Read, one of the students who was killed by Cho during the rampage, asked the media to stop airing Cho's manifesto.[119]

[AuH20]

Sounds JUST like the tapes the Virginia tech shooter sent to the media BEFORE the crime, remember? I think the tapes he sent came out about a WEEK later!

But at least the VA Tech shooter's motive was pretty much established and consistent as opposed to this rigamarole.

[mac_hine]

Are you kidding me? That is one CRAZY coincidence! Got a link for that?

Not sure how reliable this site is, but here's what I found:


Most important to note about James Holmes, however, this report says, is that his father, Robert Holmes, was said to have been scheduled to testify within the next few weeks before a US Senate panel on the largest bank fraud scandal in world history that is currently unfolding and threatens to destabilize and destroy the Western banking system.

Robert Holmes, whose “blueblood” family links go back to the Mayflower, is known throughout the global banking community as being the creator of one of the most sophisticated computer algorithms ever developed and is credited with developing predictive models for financial services; credit and fraud risk models, first and third party application fraud models and internet/online banking fraud models.

Educated at the University of California, Berkeley and Stanford University, Robert Holmes is currently the senior lead scientist with the American credit score company FICO, which was formally known as Fair, Isaac and Company, and which every American citizen is beholden to should they need to borrow money.
http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1600.htm

[matt0611]

The real answer to this is that the guy is simply nuts. He's insane. That's why he sent this notebook to the psychiatrist, that's why he simply sat in his car and allowed the police to catch him, that's why he's constantly spitting at guards in his jail cell. Because he's completely out of his mind. There are some people in this world who simply go nuts for whatever reason. This man is one of those people. There's no need to make this situation any more complicated than it actually is. It's very, very simple. A crazy guy killed a bunch of people in a theater.

This. Not everything is a conspiracy or a secret plot. Some people are just evil and/or crazy.

[moostraks]

Then there is this "According to reporting by San Diego Reader editor Matt Potter, the father of the suspected Colorado mass murderer is almost certainly an anti-fraud scientist at a San Diego company. He is Robert M. Holmes, senior lead scientist at the San Diego office of Minneapolis-based FICO, New York Stock Exchange-listed company that was formerly named Fair Isaac.

He is listed as living at the same Rancho Penasquitos address on Sparren Ave. as his wife Arlene, who earlier talked with reporters about her son. Robert M. Holmes's picture appears to be the same person who was shown on TV entering a car to begin a trip to Denver. FICO spokesperson Kate Sellers Blatt would not confirm that Holmes worked for the firm, saying in an email, "Out of respect for the privacy of our employees, as a matter of policy FICO does not disclose information about individuals."

The senior Holmes has a PhD in statistics from Cal-Berkeley, a Master's in biostatistics from UCLA, and a bachelor's in mathematics from Stanford. Over the last ten years, he has developed predictive models for financial services, and credit and fraud risk models. He is one of several scientists who patented a predictive model system used to detect telecommunications fraud"
http://www.sandiegoreader.com/weblogs/news-ticker/2012/jul/20/holmess-father-is-anti-fraud-scientist/

Good luck to anyone who can find out whether the Senate story is true...

[Nirvikalpa]

Not sure how reliable this site is, but here's what I found:


http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1600.htm

Faal? Try again.

[mac_hine]

Faal? Try again.

Care to elaborate?

[Revolution9]

Faal? Try again.

The San Diego reader confirms it. And Faal is an ONI steganography op which has a different objective than disinfo. You cannot dispute FACTS. You can only pretend they do not matter or ignore them at your peril.

Rev9

[Weston White]

"Police and FBI agents were called to the University of Colorado Anschutz medical campus in Aurora on Monday morning after the psychiatrist, who is also a professor at the school, reported receiving a package believed to be from the suspect. Although that package turned out to be from someone else and harmless, a search of the Campus Services' mailroom turned up another package sent to the psychiatrist with Holmes’ name in the return address, the source told FoxNews.com."


Really now, such a convenience, no? Well, at any rate, perhaps if the federal government did not reduce the budget of the USPS this entire event could have been avoided?

[Nirvikalpa]

The San Diego reader confirms it. And Faal is an ONI steganography op which has a different objective than disinfo. You cannot dispute FACTS. You can only pretend they do not matter or ignore them at your peril.

Rev9

Well, if a news source says it's true, it must be true.

[moostraks]

Then we have a massive crime where his son is the fall guy and is sure to be used as an attempt to discredit his father by linkage.

Add that to the mix and I smell a bigger rat than before but if the money trail can be followed is the adage then we have more of a zeroing on where this op is emanating from.

Rev9

Ran across this and thought you would appreciate it. Read the qualifiers:

When young people turn violent, we naturally turn to parenting to explain what went wrong, even though research suggests that hidden, often undiagnosed mental health problems — as well as perpetrators' relationships with peers, teachers and others — can play a much bigger role.

"Obviously parenting has an effect," Fox said. "But to create this kind of outcome, the parent would have to be … a tremendously bad parent. And you generally don't find that."

Fox, whose research has included interviews with family members of spree killers, said young people turn violent despite the best efforts of the parents.

"I'm not going to say that some of the parents I've known have been the greatest and belong to the 'Hallmark Hall of Fame of Good Mothers and Dads,' but they also shouldn't be perceived as a Dr. Frankenstein, as someone who created a monster."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-07-25/experts-killers-families-mourn/56488544/1?csp=34news

For someone calling for calm in blaming the family they sure do a good job muddying the waters with obviously parenting has an effect and some of the parents aren't the greatest.

[moostraks]

Well, if a news source says it's true, it must be true.

Wonder if they are going off of this:

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/robert-holmes/4/47b/24a

[Revolution9]

Care to elaborate?

Sorcha Faal is claimed to be David Booth, though they claim to be a conclave or Sisterhood of charitable nuns who had assisted and warned as far back as '39 of what was coming with Hitler and did hospital work during the war. I cannot verify or disavow that this Sisterhood exists but they claim to be out of Ireland. The server is in Virginia. . It is run by ONI and is a steganography op..which is different from a disinfo op. Steganography is a method whereby competing intel agencies signal their secure if information or a factional defeat or victory in public news articles that have just enough misdirection to not be perceived as such. In this particular op as it has been run for years they lay out alot of little known connections and historical facts and then surround it with conjecture, plausible warnings and a finger pointing to the Russian halls of intel when it comes from the bowels of the Constitutionally sanctioned Office Of Naval Intelligence. If one researches their past "sensationalist" pieces they will come up with many obscure facts and future projected scenarios that played out. Within that is enough BS to turn off the casual researcher. As they wish it.

HTH
Rev9

[Revolution9]

Well, if a news source says it's true, it must be true.

Snarky. Sorry to shoot down your shoot down but the guy is the guy.

Rev9

[Revolution9]

Ran across this and thought you would appreciate it. Read the qualifiers:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-07-25/experts-killers-families-mourn/56488544/1?csp=34news

For someone calling for calm in blaming the family they sure do a good job muddying the waters with obviously parenting has an effect and some of the parents aren't the greatest.

Follows like footsteps to the altar of the damned. This shit ain't fooling me one bit.

Rev9

[Weston White]

"Police and FBI agents were called to the University of Colorado Anschutz medical campus in Aurora on Monday morning after the psychiatrist, who is also a professor at the school, reported receiving a package believed to be from the suspect. Although that package turned out to be from someone else and harmless, a search of the Campus Services' mailroom turned up another package sent to the psychiatrist with Holmes’ name in the return address, the source told FoxNews.com."


Really now, such a convenience, no? Well, at any rate, perhaps if the federal government did not reduce the budget of the USPS this entire event could have been avoided?

[jmdrake]

The San Diego reader confirms it. And Faal is an ONI steganography op which has a different objective than disinfo. You cannot dispute FACTS. You can only pretend they do not matter or ignore them at your peril.

Rev9

Okay. I found this: http://www.sandiegoreader.com/weblogs/news-ticker/2012/jul/20/holmess-father-is-anti-fraud-scientist/ But that's talking about telecommunications fraud. Ya got a link to the banking hearings?

[mac_hine]

Thanks for the info.

BTW, I've really enjoyed reading your posts on this topic. It's apparent to me that you have a deep understanding of the inner workings of the power elite.

What I try to do in situations like this is to apply the trivium to sort out noise from signal. Using the tools of grammar, logic, and rhetoric to remove all contradictions will usually allow me to arrive at a place of truth. While I'm not ready to come out and say with 100% assurance that this was a false flag, I need not tell you, or many others here, that there are many, many, contradictions in the "official" story.

Keep searching for truth brother.
~Peace

[Tyler_Durden]

The real answer to this is that the guy is simply nuts. He's insane. That's why he sent this notebook to the psychiatrist, that's why he simply sat in his car and allowed the police to catch him, that's why he's constantly spitting at guards in his jail cell. Because he's completely out of his mind. There are some people in this world who simply go nuts for whatever reason. This man is one of those people. There's no need to make this situation any more complicated than it actually is. It's very, very simple. A crazy guy killed a bunch of people in a theater.

No. No. Sitting in or by his car was the original story. The revision from Chief Oates was that two "attentive" officers noticed something missing or different with his outfit after nearly mistaking him for SWAT. take your pick on which story is more believable.......

[Tyler_Durden]

They may not log every piece of mail but toss it into a bin to get sorted and delivered to the apropriate department. They may not have a record for when it was delivered. Unless they had to sign for it (say UPS or FedEx).

If anybody knows anyone who works for UPS or Fed Ex, have that person run a search of the delivery address. There will be a history of every package delivered to that address by that carrier.......I wish I worked for Fed and UPS right now. Id already have the info.

[Tyler_Durden]

And according to this article from the OP of this thread (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/25/exclusive-movie-massacre-suspect-laid-out-plans-in-package-mailed-to/) it states:



But didn't Police Chief Oates state that it was the sharp observation of 1 or 2 officers that notice an item of his gear (the gas mask some have said, but Oates also said he would not identify which item it was in another article) did not match the appropriate issued gear and when he was questioned by the officers it was then he was arrested - not when he was removing the armor. So this is a different version of when he was arrested.

Yes. Oates gave this new scenario in a Face the Nation interview on Sunday.

[phill4paul]

No. No. Sitting in or by his car was the original story. The revision from Chief Oates was that two "attentive" officers noticed something missing or different with his outfit after nearly mistaking him for SWAT. take your pick on which story is more believable.......

Perhaps, Traditional Conservative might choose to clear up this disparity? Hmm? As opposed to just posting snarky remarks, perhaps, actually back something up with some proof.

[MelissaWV]

If anybody knows anyone who works for UPS or Fed Ex, have that person run a search of the delivery address. There will be a history of every package delivered to that address by that carrier.......I wish I worked for Fed and UPS right now. Id already have the info.

And they'd get fired, but at least some person on the internet would have some more evidence...

[Tyler_Durden]

The latest clincher is that his father is the brains behind the algorithm that can now track where every offshore account is and the money trail of how it got there. Bigger stuff than PROMIS and has already uncovered 16 trillion in offshore funds IIRC. So, we have a Satanic Cabal who is going to get their dirty funding channels killed and the guy who had the brains to write the computer program and database for this is the father of the alleged shooter and due to speak in Congress in a couple of weeks on the LIBOR crimes and the other money trails FICO has tracked down and their ramifications. Then we have a massive crime where his son is the fall guy and is sure to be used as an attempt to discredit his father by linkage.

Add that to the mix and I smell a bigger rat than before but if the money trail can be followed is the adage then we have more of a zeroing on where this op is emanating from.

Rev9

OMG Rev9! Source info? This is "WTC7 collapsing and destroyed ongoing SEC criminal cases" huge!

[Tyler_Durden]

Okay. I found this: http://www.sandiegoreader.com/weblogs/news-ticker/2012/jul/20/holmess-father-is-anti-fraud-scientist/ But that's talking about telecommunications fraud. Ya got a link to the banking hearings?

Keep in mind that telecommunications fraud is very broad:

TYPES OF TELECOMMUNICATIONS FRAUD

A) IDENTITY THEFT- The misuse of information that is specific to an individual in order to convince others that the imposter is the individual, effectively passing one self off as someone else.
B) INTERNET FRAUD - Any type of fraud scheme that uses one or more components of the internet - such as chat rooms, email, message boards, or web sites to present fraudulent solicitations to prospective victims, to conduct fraudulent transactions, or to transmit the proceeds of fraud to financial institutions or to others connected with the scheme.
C) TELEMARKETING FRAUD - Any scheme to defraud in which the persons carrying out the scheme use the telephone as their primary means of communicating with prospective victims and trying to persuade them to send money to the scheme.
D) AUCTION AND RETAIL SCHEMES - These schemes typically attract consumers by purporting to offer high-valve merchandise ranging from expensive jewelry to computers to sport memorabilia at attractive prices. After persuading victims to send money in the form of a personal check, money order, or cashier's check, schemers either send an inferior item or nothing at all.
E) NIGERIAN MONEY OFFER SCAMS - Potential victims receive, either through e-mail or fax, a request from a purported high ranking Nigerian government official (with the title of Doctor, Chief, or General) seeking permission to transfer a large sum of money out of Nigeria or some other African country into the victim's bank account.
F) ATM FRAUD - Use a special information storage device to secretly copy the magnetic strip on the back of credit and debit cards during normal transaction such as an ATM withdrawal or in-store purchase (this is called skimming)

G) INVESTMENT SCAMS- Market manipulation scams are the forefront of this type of scheme. Two methods are used, the first is commonly known as the pump - and dump, attempts to drive up the price of thinly traded stocks or stocks of shell companies by sending out e-mails that inflate the value of the company. When new purchases of the stock push its price to a high enough level, the scammers sell off the stock to realize a significant return which in turn drives down the stock price. The second method, referred to as short-selling or scalping, tries to decrease a stock value.

If the father were to testify before the Senate, my guess would be that he's referring to G).

[Brett85]

Perhaps, Traditional Conservative might choose to clear up this disparity? Hmm? As opposed to just posting snarky remarks, perhaps, actually back something up with some proof.

The burden of proof is on the people who are claiming that there's some kind of giant government conspiracy. It's not up to me to prove that their wasn't a conspiracy. That's not how it works.

[Revolution9]

Keep in mind that telecommunications fraud is very broad:

The CHIPS and CLEAR screens and other financial Letters of Credit, wire transfers, bank servers..ya know..where they launder the big monies at. If it gets digitized and sent from one machine to another over a wire and there was fraud involved it is telecommunications fraud. Dr. Holmes is the Chief Scientist at FICO. They keep your credits score rating up to date. If you think about that there is no stretch of the imagination to realize this guy knows his stuff..seriously.

Rev9

[Revolution9]

And they'd get fired, but at least some person on the internet would have some more evidence...

You really need to change your avatar to something more snarky and less innocent appearing.

Rev9

[QueenB4Liberty]

This just keeps getting more ridiculous as the days go by.

[phill4paul]

The burden of proof is on the people who are claiming that there's some kind of giant government conspiracy. It's not up to me to prove that their wasn't a conspiracy. That's not how it works.

^^^THAT is exactly how it works.

You sit back and say 'This is what the officials are saying. This is what I believe. Therefore, they are right. Prove them wrong.'

Well, when there are contradicting official reports then you, the sceptic 'basher', decide that it is only fair if we play by your rules.

F*ck. Why are you even posting in a thread that you consider nonsense? Just believe in what you want and go on your merry way. You are as bad as the liberals that don't believe that individuals in places of power and with unlimited funding are capable of these kind of events.

tl;dr: STFU if you have nothing to contribute but disparities. I'd prefer a challenged debate as opposed to shit stirring.

[Revolution9]

OMG Rev9! Source info? This is "WTC7 collapsing and destroyed ongoing SEC criminal cases" huge!

It was The Senate as someone else pointed out and is a Telecommunications Hearing, where of course all the LIBOR rigging and offshore stashes of cash were done through the telecommunications system and ergo falls under that jurisdiction. Note this fellow was involved with military operations, which may have been suspect except that he went to work for a decent private entity after. He was probably involved in military intel tracking bank accounts and movements of various instruments. I will bet the whole derivatives thing is hiding some serious laundering trails as well and if the software is more powerful than PROMIS then it has backdoor capabilittes into every black box bank server on the planet and the only thing they can do to stop it is pull the plug. The thing some people are not getting is this is not necessarily a government operation. This could be a foreign government operation. If it is they may be messing with the wrong guy here with deep connections in military intel to eff them hard.

Rev9

[Brett85]

F*ck. Why are you even posting in a thread that you consider nonsense?

Because I feel like there needs to be some common sense, rational thinking in this thread. I really don't like to criticize people personally; I try to be as nice as possible. But if the average person read this thread, they would think that Ron Paul supporters and the liberty movement was absolutely nuts.

[Revolution9]

So I'm a sociopath because I don't believe everything is some giant conspiracy? Hmmm, right.

This could be done with one other person and orders given. There is no need for your giant conspiracy mr conspiracy monger.

Rev9

[pcosmar]

Because I feel like there needs to be some common sense, rational thinking in this thread. I really don't like to criticize people personally; I try to be as nice as possible. But if the average person read this thread, they would think that Ron Paul supporters and the liberty movement was absolutely nuts.

No.. The people that ran, supported and were involved in MK Ultra were nuts.
Many of them were Doctors.. Psychiatrists specifically.
Many Hospitals, and Research institutions were involved as well.. All very Professional.

now,, that's nuts (but it is FACT)

[Tyler_Durden]

The latest clincher is that his father is the brains behind the algorithm that can now track where every offshore account is and the money trail of how it got there. Bigger stuff than PROMIS and has already uncovered 16 trillion in offshore funds IIRC. So, we have a Satanic Cabal who is going to get their dirty funding channels killed and the guy who had the brains to write the computer program and database for this is the father of the alleged shooter and due to speak in Congress in a couple of weeks on the LIBOR crimes and the other money trails FICO has tracked down and their ramifications. Then we have a massive crime where his son is the fall guy and is sure to be used as an attempt to discredit his father by linkage.

Add that to the mix and I smell a bigger rat than before but if the money trail can be followed is the adage then we have more of a zeroing on where this op is emanating from.

Rev9

For what it's worth, Congress joined in the LIBOR Scandal investigation on July 11, 2012.

[tmg19103]

This certainly appears bogus.

It could also be a prank by somebody and not the government, though (sorry if this was posted - don't have time to read 12 pages).

[LibertyEagle]

Stay out of this LE. It is between me and him and he wiped the original post off he started with. I believe his claims I belong in an insane asylum with Holmes are still documented in the thread. Fair warning. he was nailed for it.. Don't restart it. I am not in any mood to deal with your tactics.

Rev9

No "tactics". You were extremely rude to TC and I called you out on it. If he personally insulted you first and had deleted it, that is all you had to say. Yet yours is still there for all to see.

[Revolution9]

What tactics? You were extremely rude to someone and I called you out on it. If he personally insulted you first, that is all you had to say. Sheesh.

I wasn't extremely rude to him. I told him exactly what he is acting like. He wants to fry the only witness and has assumed him guilty regardless of the misplaced clues and possiblity of their being others involved who may or may not have drugged him and set him up.

Tactics..Like this..making me engage to protect my reputation from smears by proxy when I have no interest in being sidetracked. If, like DDT, he gets to be polite and non-insultive to people with the best of motives and engage in proper discourse he may not have any more issues with me. None of us that he has insulted has stated anything to be a fact except that which are facts. We have made conjecture based on those facts and dropped various conjectures when the weight of preponderance has led to such. We have to become the fourth estate because journalism fails due to being compromised dearly.

Rev9

[FindLiberty]

Jack Ruby flew into action after 2 short horn honks? (Same sounds were heard before JFK was shot?)

I think those horn honks must be behind it all... But who was the nut behind the wheel?

;-)

[phill4paul]

Because I feel like there needs to be some common sense, rational thinking in this thread. I really don't like to criticize people personally; I try to be as nice as possible. But if the average person read this thread, they would think that Ron Paul supporters and the liberty movement was absolutely nuts.

Coward that hides behind persona.

[Bruno]

And they'd get fired, but at least some person on the internet would have some more evidence...

If it uncovered something, it would be worth it, now, wouldn't it?

[Tyler_Durden]

I've tried to find a Robert Holmes/LIBOR scandal testimony connection.

The closest link between FICO and LIBOR I can find is this thread in a FICO Forum.


http://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit-in-the-News/Huge-LIBOR-scandal/td-p/1480904

I thought about joining this forum and seeing if anybody would like to try to connect the dots. I'll admit I'm a little scared to peel away the layers. This LIBOR thing appears HUGE!!! Makes me want to look at every loan agreement I've entered into since 2007 and jump on the lawsuit bandwagon while this thing is still in it's infancy.......

[phill4paul]

I've tried to find a Robert Holmes/LIBOR scandal testimony connection.

The closest link between FICO and LIBOR I can find is this thread in a FICO Forum.


http://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit-in-the-News/Huge-LIBOR-scandal/td-p/1480904

I thought about joining this forum and seeing if anybody would like to try to connect the dots. I'll admit I'm a little scared to peel away the layers. This LIBOR thing appears HUGE!!! Makes me want to look at every loan agreement I've entered into since 2007 and jump on the lawsuit bandwagon while this thing is still in it's infancy.......

You misjudge us, sir. We are GOP loyalists. One for all and all for the one.

[Revolution9]

I've tried to find a Robert Holmes/LIBOR scandal testimony connection.

The closest link between FICO and LIBOR I can find is this thread in a FICO Forum.


http://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit-in-the-News/Huge-LIBOR-scandal/td-p/1480904

I thought about joining this forum and seeing if anybody would like to try to connect the dots. I'll admit I'm a little scared to peel away the layers. This LIBOR thing appears HUGE!!! Makes me want to look at every loan agreement I've entered into since 2007 and jump on the lawsuit bandwagon while this thing is still in it's infancy.......

Some folks around here are good with looking up obscure Senate and Congressional stuff. I wonder if they have a link to get the people called before the committee? I had passed by some other data on the computer software, it's acronym and some capabilities..very powerful.. earlier in the day as well. I wish I could find it again.

Rev9

[DerailingDaTrain]

Nobody just goes crazy like that. This stuff has been happening for a while, so we've gotten used to it, but none of it is just pure, plain insanity. It is either a crime of passion, psychotropic drugs, a mixture of some volatile circumstances, or it's a false flag. There are plenty of non-flase flag crimes, but nobody just goes batshit insane. You only say that because you've gotten used to the idea of this stuff happening, but it's not normal. Nobody is so completely irrational and helplessly crazy. He was a med student, for chrissakes. He was obviously able to hold it together for until he was 23, and all of a sudden he's crazy? I don't believe that for a second.

Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold planned Columbine for months and months and nobody suspected a thing until they shot up their school. To most people they seemed like ordinary kids but they in fact weren't. In fact most people who are unstable don't realize they have any problems and think what they are doing is perfectly fine and dandy. They may even feel like they are superior to the people around them because they are able to hide what they are planning from their friends and family (Read Brevik's "manifesto", Harris and Klebold's diaries and well as their statements on the Basement Tapes, etc)

[phill4paul]

No "tactics". You were extremely rude to TC and I called you out on it. If he personally insulted you first and had deleted it, that is all you had to say. Yet yours is still there for all to see.

I echo Rev9 on this. You insert yourself into a situation that you do not know the entirety of the dialog. Stop it.

[Bruno]

bump

[donnay]

I am not sure if this was posted already but here is another interesting twist:


A father of one of the dead victims told The Post that cops revealed to him that Holmes was adopted. Police said the San Diego-area couple who raised him are not cooperating in the probe.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/you_re_no_tough_guy_now_qCaDbL0bp6MXY8NiTX6x3K

[Bruno]

I am not sure if this was posted already but here is another interesting twist:


http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/you_re_no_tough_guy_now_qCaDbL0bp6MXY8NiTX6x3K

"The couple who raised him?"

Sounds so detached. Why wouldn't they say, "his parents" or at the very least, "his adoptive parents" ?

[phill4paul]

Let me see if I have this straight,

The previously sane, brilliant son of the uber-brilliant former military intelligence man who heads FICO and recently developed a complex algorithm that exposed $16 Trillion of banking trail theft which threatens the entire western banking system and the Federal Reserve and is due to testify in a few weeks to Congress about it, the son of that man just carried out a bizarre murderous rampage completely out of character then said he was the Joker and showed up in court dazed and confused and then add in all the other odd things discussed in this thread.

I'm sure it is all easily explained by a coincidence theory.

I've gotten snippets. I would like as much confirmation as possible. I'll go down this rabbit hole tomorrow.

[Bosco Warden]

AURORA — The following is a timeline of actual events that took place just after the mass shooting was reported to 911 in a Colorado theatre during a midnight showing of the new Batman film:

4 MIN. 30 SEC… SUSPECT CAUGHT
6 MIN 46 SEC… “One of the shooters is wearing white and blue clothing”
8 MIN 6 SEC… WITNESSES REPORT MULTIPLE SUSPECTS
16 MIN 8 SEC… MALE SUSPECT SEEN WITH RED BACK PACK AND ANOTHER ALL IN BLACK FLEEING THE SCENE
16 MIN. 47 SEC… Cops describe one of the suspects as male, dressed in black camo, vest, gas mask, and possessing multiple long guns.
17 MIN 48 SEC… JAMES HOLMES WAS NAMED…. BUT SECONDS BEFORE THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT A SECOND SUSPECT ON LOOSE…. GOT AWAY


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=eZaBmSq89S4

[Bruno]

Just found this, new reports blaming his rampage on failing an exam, which he felt may have disappointed his daddy:

Did Dark Knight gunman snap after failing to meet expectations of brilliant academic father? Colorado killer bought arsenal of weapons after failing key university exam Last updated at 9:10 PM, 25 Jul 2012

James Holmes mailed a notebook 'full of details about how he was going to kill people' to a psychiatrist - but it wasn't discovered until after attack
Father Robert Holmes has glittering career and several degrees
Experts suggest stress of following in father's over-achieving footsteps may have caused him to snap
Former teachers and mentors of alleged gunman debunk idea he is a brilliant genius
Described as 'mediocre' and 'average'


The Dark Knight gunman bought a terrifying arsenal of weapons after he failed a key university exam, it was revealed today, leading experts to believe he may have snapped under the pressure of meeting the expectations of his brilliant academic father.
^topDetails emerged today about the glittering career of James Holmes' father Robert, who has degrees from Stanford, UCLA and Berkeley and currently works as a senior scientist at FICO in San Diego.
Police now believe they are moving closer towards a possible motive for the senseless massacre as just three days after the alleged gunman failed an exam, he dropped out of the University of Colorado's neurosciences program with no explanation as to why.
Experts have suggested that it may have been the stress of failing the exam coupled with the pressure to follow in his father's over-achieving footsteps which triggered an underlying mental illness.
Marisa Randazzo, a psychologist who studies targeted violence, told ABC: 'All of those things could actually make dormant schizophrenia come out, and come out relatively quickly.'
^topRobert Holmes, 61, is a statistician and senior scientist who received his PhD from the University of California.
Both he and his wife Arlene - a licensed registered nurse - are highly regarded and respected in their upscale area of San Diego, where Holmes grew up.
His younger sister Chris is a student at San Diego Sate University.
The street is filled with well-kept, two-story houses and most of the children who play sports on the street are those who grow up expecting to be sent to college.
It is a close-knit community where everyone knows each other. Neighbors have said they are 'floored' by the accusations against Holmes, who they describe as a quiet 'brainiac' from a church-going family.
Margie Aguilar told UT San Diego: 'His parents are really nice people, very personable. You’d never think it would happen to a family like that.'
^topIt also emerged today that Holmes mailed a notebook 'full of details about how he was going to kill people' to a University of Colorado psychiatrist before the attack, but it sat unopened in a mail room for as long as a week.
It was only discovered on Monday, according to Fox News, four days after the senseless massacre.
A search of the campus mail room turned up the package which had Holmes' name in the return address. It had been there since July 12 and is not clear why it had not been delivered to the psychiatrist.
A law enforcement source told Fox that once they obtained a warrant to open the package, its chilling contents were revealed.
^topHe said: 'Inside the package was a notebook full of details about how he was going to kill people. There were drawings of what he was going to do in it - drawings and illustrations of the massacre.'
Among the images shown in the spiral-bound notebook’s pages were gun-wielding stick figures blowing away other stick figures.
Though initial reports have portrayed the alleged Colorado gunman as a brilliant genius - just like his father - reports have emerged today debunking this and suggesting he was just an average student.
After graduating from Westview High School in 2006, Holmes went on to complete an eight-week internship at the Salk Institute and Miramar College’s biotechnology boot camp, which is known to draw bright, ambitious kids.
Neuroscientist and former researcher at the Salk Institute David Eagleman told USA Today Holmes' credentials were no better than those of an average student and had the reputation as a 'dolt'.
^top'He was just a second-year grad student,' he said. 'He didn't know anything. He wasn't any form of super scientist when he was 18.'
John Jacobson, another researcher at the institute, said Holmes 'should not have gotten into the summer program. His grades were mediocre. I've heard him described as brilliant. This is extremely inaccurate.'
He added that his high-school transcripts were a B average and he was only accepted on to the camp because he had done computer programming.
Though Holmes was one of six students admitted to the University of Colorado's graduate program in neuroscience last year, received a $26,000 federal stipend for it, Mr Eagleman said it should not suggest any kind of brilliance.
'Holmes is being depicted as some sort of brilliant researcher who won a rare grant,' he told USA Today. 'But there are thousands of research students in this country with such grants. Everyone has one. There is nothing elite about it.'
^topThe news comes the day after it emerged that Holmes has been forced to wear a face guard as he keeps spitting at the guards there.
It was also revealed that when authorities placed evidence bags over the 24-year-old's hands to preserve gunshot residue, he began playing with them as if they were two puppets, the sources told CALL7.
He is being held in isolation at the Arapahoe County Jail but the continual spitting has forced authorities to cover his face while he is being moved.
According to reports, the neuroscience graduate was adopted and Mrs Holmes, 58, and husband Robert, 61, a software developer, raised him as one of their own.
^topThe reports come just one day after Holmes's startling first appearance in court on Monday, where he rolled his eyes, stared directly ahead and swayed from side to side.
He also displayed a disheveled mop of orange hair, apparently fading from the red he had dyed it in an attempt to resemble Batman's arch nemesis, The Joker.
He stayed silent throughout the appearance at Arapahoe County Court and at times appeared as if he was under heavy medication.
But a jail employee has claimed that the 12-minute catatonic appearance was an act, not the result of any drugs.
'We don’t just hand out meds,' the Arapahoe County Detention Center worker told the New York Daily News. 'It just doesn’t work like that. If he was acting sleepy, he was faking it.'
^topThe source added: 'I heard he’s not cooperating. He’s trying to act crazy. I know the people here believe it’s an act, but only he knows for sure.'
Dr Joan Neff, a criminologist from the University of Virginia, told MailOnline that Holmes' appearance was consistent with someone who was suffering from a mental illness, such as schizophrenia.
She said this would also explain why he dropped out of his PhD so abruptly.
'We know that certain types of psychoses tend to have an onset in the early 20s; if that's the case he may be in the midst of coping with that. He may not know what's going on,' she said.
Alternatively, she said the conditions of his jailing - especially for someone who has never been in trouble with the law - may have brought on an episode.
^top'Sometimes that can be an experience in and of itself,' Dr Neff said. 'So his appearance is not very surprising.'
Jailors at the facility agreed Holmes has been acting bizarrely ever since arriving and 'thinks he's acting in a movie', they told the New York Daily News
'He was spitting at the door and spitting at the guards,' a released inmate said outside the jail. 'He’s spitting at everything. Dude was acting crazy.'
Mental illness is something the suspected gunman would be educated in, after completing a neuroscience degree before dropping out of his PhD program last month.
^topHolmes was previously awarded a $26,000 federal grant from the National Institutes of Health in Bethesda, Maryland, part of the US Department of Health.
The sum covered a stipend and his tuition at the University of Colorado in Denver. He was one of six neuroscience students at the school to receive the money, WNEW News reported.
As well as mental illness, there have been other suggestions at a motive, including reports Holmes had recently split from a girlfriend and the fact he had been struggling in school before dropping out.
Whatever the cause, families are now reacting to the killings by unleashing lawsuits on the Century 16 Theater where the shooting took place, Holmes' doctors and Warner Brothers.
TMZ reported that Torrence Brown, Jr. was in the cinema when Holmes shot dead 12 people and wounded another 58.
^topOne of his friends, 18-year-old A.J. Boik, was killed in the massacre, and Brown is now suffering from extreme trauma, according to his attorney Donald Karpel.
His lawsuit, which has not yet been filed, will name the theater, for not properly securing the emergency exit and Holmes’ doctors, for allegedly prescribing medications, as defendants.
It will also name the studio Warner Brothers, claiming that Dark Knight Rises is too violent.
After his brief appearance on Monday, Holmes is back in solitary confinement - but the families of the victims said they saw enough.
'I saw the coward in court today,' said Tom Teves, whose son Alex was among those killed. 'Alex could have wiped the floor with him without breaking a sweat.'
Holmes is being held without bond and will hear the formal charges against him next Monday. The County District Attorney is considering whether to seek the death penalty.
Legal experts told the Denver Post that Holmes's attorneys are likely to pursue an insanity defense.
Video: Statement from the mother of Colorado shooting suspect

http://m.dailymail.co.uk/mobile/news/article.html?articleID=2178852

[Bosco Warden]

James Holmes’ “Mentor” Admits To Mind Manipulation

John Jacobson, the person James Holmes named as his “mentor” during his science camp presentation on “temporal illusions” and “subjective experience” [1], can be seen in a video discussing the manipulation of a subject’s order of time perception. [2]


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g9NYeFfJeQ

At 1.58 in Jacobson says:

“… it’s possible… for us to manipulate temporal order, we have loads of power over temporal order, if events happen in the order A/B, a good psycho-physicist can have the subject experience it as B/A, this is routine…”

So the accused Batman shooter, who appeared drugged out of his mind during his first court appearance, and the District Attorney later said she had “no information” on whether Holmes was on medication in court [3], is closely associated to a boastful mind manipulator.

But this gets much more interesting…

John Jacobson now completely denies being James Holmes’ ”mentor”, in fact he outright attacks every aspect of James Holmes life [4], from Holmes’ ability to do Flash programming as an intern (who would even dream that Flash programming abilities would be grounds to condemn the academic career of an honors graduate and prestigious grant winner [5] ), to claiming Holmes’ didn’t seem to understand “any of the basic science” [6], to claiming Holmes “just had no interest” in a high school girl Jacobson introduced. [4]

Read the LA Times article below to get a real sense of the tone.

Finally, to top this story off, ABC News has been caught lying, I mean misspeaking, about what the mother Arlene Holmes originally said, the well publicized and over repeated “you have the right person” quote… Mrs. Holmes was simply referring to herself.

This strange and illogical quote was suspect from the very start, but it was repeated, wild details were added to it, but it has no basis in fact.

With all the crack reporting from organizations like ABC News, no one seems to ask the basic question, how exactly did the shooter get in through a closed fire exit door?
Are we to believe he arrive early, set the door ajar, went off to gear up, then returned later without the certainty the door would still be ajar… or perhaps we’re to imagine the shooter arriving at the closed exit door in full gear, gas mask on, not knowing if he could open the door… or perhaps he had some help? [8]

http://theintelhub.com/2012/07/26/james-holmes-mentor-admits-to-mind-manipulation/

[donnay]

"The couple who raised him?"

Sounds so detached. Why wouldn't they say, "his parents" or at the very least, "his adoptive parents" ?


Yeah, that is certainly weird.

[Revolution9]

Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold planned Columbine for months and months and nobody suspected a thing until they shot up their school. To most people they seemed like ordinary kids but they in fact weren't. In fact most people who are unstable don't realize they have any problems and think what they are doing is perfectly fine and dandy. They may even feel like they are superior to the people around them because they are able to hide what they are planning from their friends and family (Read Brevik's "manifesto", Harris and Klebold's diaries and well as their statements on the Basement Tapes, etc)

You know SWAT was told to stand down and the videos show other shooters..guys who look like military pros. All witnesses contrary to the story you portray above have been extincted. This can be verified and the data needs looking at prior to dismissal. One of the Columbine shooters father was military intel and worked at the formerly used as an MK ULTRA facility closed air force base nearby. The Colorado university was used an an MK ULTRA research facility IIRC.

Rev9

[pacelli]

Are the jurors of the case allowed to ask similar questions, or would they be considered conspiracy theorists too?

[Tyler_Durden]

We need to verify the Robert Holmes/LIBOR Scandal link........that will tell me everything I need to know, nothing is as it seems.......

[LibertyEagle]

I echo Rev9 on this. You insert yourself into a situation that you do not know the entirety of the dialog. Stop it.

Talk about inserting yourself. You just did it. :rolleyes:

I have been reading this thread since the very beginning and it has been interesting, until recently.

People should be able to disagree without being personally insulted or bullied. That is the point. And I have every right to say something about it. I don't like to see people being picked on and I feel like I am as guilty as the person who did it, if I sit by and just let it happen.

This whole personal insult deal shouldn't come as some kind of big surprise to you, Phill. It's in the forum guidelines.

We can drop this now, or not. It's your choice.

[moostraks]

Talk about inserting yourself. You just did it. :rolleyes:

I have been reading this thread since the very beginning and it has been interesting, until recently.

People should be able to disagree without being personally insulted or bullied. That is the point. And I have every right to say something about it. I don't like to see people being picked on and I feel like I am as guilty as the person who did it, if I sit by and just let it happen.

This whole personal insult deal shouldn't come as some kind of big surprise to you, Phill. It's in the forum guidelines.

We can drop this now, or not. It's your choice.

You should not insert yourself into every situation. If you find it so disturbing report it to the mods. This is why so many people get annoyed with you as you act as self- appointed forum nanny. Now I am sure you will find it necessary to attack me, but it needs to be said why so many folks here get downright aggravated with you. Last time you got involved with something with me you had no business doing it then either as the poster and I were fine. You antagonize a situation when if it is a genuine need to deal with it a mod can handle it. Flame away...

[xFiFtyOnE]

found in the mailroom, doctor never saw it, and Bin Laden was buried at sea.

win.

[Revolution9]

Talk about inserting yourself. You just did it. :rolleyes:
<snip typical sidetracking tactics>

Irony meter..shop..recalibrate...'nuff sed.

Rev9

[Revolution9]

We need to verify the Robert Holmes/LIBOR Scandal link........that will tell me everything I need to know, nothing is as it seems.......

This is true. I don't know how to find that particular schedule and the people that committee chose to call before them.

Rev9

[JK/SEA]

geezus -H- Christ...guns get taken over a lie....gotta tell ya guys..thats not gonna be an easy bridge to cross if ya know what i mean...

[Bruno]

No Mr. Holmes is saying he doesn't remember anything, and asking why he is in jail. Either it is a lie to help his defense, or the drugs have worn off now and he really doesn't recall what happened.

And that would take something a lot more powerful than cannabis and pain killers.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/exclusive-dark-knight-shooting-suspect-james-holmes-claims-amnesia-article-1.1122289


The Joker is playing the amnesia card.

Accused mass murderer James Holmes told jailhouse workers that he remains stumped about what landed him in a Colorado lockup, a jail staffer told the Daily News.

“He claims he doesn’t know why he’s in jail,” the worker said Thursday. “He asked, ‘Why am I here?’”


Holmes, 24, who is charged with shooting a dozen people to death and wounding 58 more at a screening of the new Batman movie, was also complaining of a stomach ache caused by lousy jail food after his sixth day at the Arapahoe County Detention Center, the worker said.

“He’s claiming his belly hurts him,” the worker said. “He complained once that he didn’t like the food . . . The guy killed 12 people, and he’s upset that he’s not getting a four-star meal?”

Holmes surrendered without incident to police.

The suspect remains under 23-hour lockdown, leaving his cell just once a day. Authorities fear that other inmates could target Holmes and have him wear a bulletproof vest during his daily walk.

The jail worker said most folks inside the county lockup consider Holmes’ memory loss a ruse.

“He needs to save his act for the jury because no one here is buying it,” the worker said. “Everyone is convinced he is faking it.”

Published reports indicated that Holmes mailed a notebook filled with gruesome sketches and details of his plans for the attack in the crowded theater.

The notebook was in a package sent to a professor at the University of Colorado, where Holmes was a Ph.D. candidate until dropping out of school just prior to the killings.

The FBI snapped up the evidence after school officials notified them that the package was at the university.

In a statement, the university denied a report that the package sat in its mailroom for a week before the shooting spree.

The package was delivered by the U.S. Postal Service on the Monday after the shootings, and forced the evacuation of a campus building for 2 1/2 hours, the statement said.

The notebook and the rest of the contents were turned over to investigators within hours of the package’s discovery, the university said.

[sailingaway]

I was originally skeptical but this screams setup. A notebook depicting your murderous agenda sent to a psychiatrist???? REALLY??? Does someone in the shadows wants the public to really really believe he is 100% batshit crazy??

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/25/exclusive-movie-massacre-suspect-laid-out-plans-in-package-mailed-to/

If a psychiatrist has something saying you ARE GOING to kill someone, and believes it, they are supposed to turn it over to police. If you have ALREADY done it, there can be a privilege under state law.

[Tyler_Durden]

No Mr. Holmes is saying he doesn't remember anything, and asking why he is in jail. Either it is a lie to help his defense, or the drugs have worn off now and he really doesn't recall what happened.

And that would take something a lot more powerful than cannabis and pain killers.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/exclusive-dark-knight-shooting-suspect-james-holmes-claims-amnesia-article-1.1122289


The Joker is playing the amnesia card.

Accused mass murderer James Holmes told jailhouse workers that he remains stumped about what landed him in a Colorado lockup, a jail staffer told the Daily News.


Holmes, 24, who is charged with shooting a dozen people to death and wounding 58 more at a screening of the new Batman movie, was also complaining of a stomach ache caused by lousy jail food after his sixth day at the Arapahoe County Detention Center, the worker said.

“He’s claiming his belly hurts him,” the worker said. “He complained once that he didn’t like the food . . . The guy killed 12 people, and he’s upset that he’s not getting a four-star meal?”

Holmes surrendered without incident to police.

The suspect remains under 23-hour lockdown, leaving his cell just once a day. Authorities fear that other inmates could target Holmes and have him wear a bulletproof vest during his daily walk.

The jail worker said most folks inside the county lockup consider Holmes’ memory loss a ruse.

“He needs to save his act for the jury because no one here is buying it,” the worker said. “Everyone is convinced he is faking it.”


I like how the prison lunch lady, clerk, or jailer is being quoted to shape public opinion.......Guilty until proven Insane/Innocent.

[Bruno]

I like how the prison lunch lady, clerk, or jailer is being quoted to shape public opinion.......Guilty until proven Insane/Innocent.

Good point.

"He says he doesn't remember, but all us experts around here know he's faking it. He should save his acting skillz for the trial where he'll be found guilty anyway."

[TheGrinch]

Good point.

"He says he doesn't remember, but all us experts around here know he's faking it. He should save his acting skillz for the trial where he'll be found guilty anyway."
Unless the jail worker is a criminal psychologist (gonna take a shot in the dark that that's unlikely), then yes, I don't give a damn if he thinks he's faking it or not, particularly not when he's operating on the unproven premise that he did it in a sane premeditated manner. We call that confirmation bias, to view things in a way that confirms your previously held view.

I mean, yes, most people are guilty of some sort of confirmation bias in how they view an issue, but we're also not being cited as sources for a guy's mental condition.

[Bruno]

Robert Holmes

Robert Holmes
Senior Lead Scientist at Fair Isaac Corporation

Location
Greater San Diego Area
Industry
Financial Services

•See who you and Robert Holmes know in common
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Robert Holmes's Overview
Current Senior Lead Scientist at Fair Isaac
Past Senior Staff Scientist at HNC Software, Inc.
Education University of California, Berkeley
Stanford University
University of California, Los Angeles
Connections 111 connections
Robert Holmes' Summary
My educational background is in Mathematics and Statistics. My experience over the last 10 years at HNC and FICO has been in develping predictive models for financial services; credit & fraud risk models,first and third party application fraud models and internet/online banking fraud models.
Management Experience: I am currently managing a team building Falcon Fraud Manager Credit card fraud models. I have also managed teams in the Telco and Identity Theft fraud areas.

Specialties
Experience with a variety of programming languages: Perl, SAS, JAVA, C, C++ and shell scripting languages
Operating systems: UNIX, Linux and Windows

Robert Holmes' Experience
Senior Lead Scientist Fair Isaac Public Company; 1001-5000 employees; FICO; Computer Software industry

2002 – Present (10 years)

Statistical Modeling / Data Mining: Developed statistical models for a variety of Fair Isaac products including Telco Fraud/Risk Manager, Falcon ID and Falcon Online Access. Also familiar with other FI products including Falcon Fraud Manager and Falcon Fraud Manager for Merchants. Currently managing a Falcon Fraud Manager Credit Team.

Senior Staff Scientist HNC Software, Inc. Public Company; 1001-5000 employees; HNCS; Computer Software industry

2000 – 2002 (2 years)

Robert Holmes' Education
University of California, Berkeley Ph.D., Statistics
1976 – 1981


Stanford University BS, Mathematics
1969 – 1973


University of California, Los Angeles MA, MS, Mathematics, Biostatistics

Robert Holmes' Additional Information
Groups and Associations:American Statistical Association

HNC Software Alumni San Diego Analytics Professionals

[DerailingDaTrain]

None of this seems to suggest anymore than the previous evidence that he was a patsy.

[pcosmar]

Stick figure "confession" didn't arrive on 12 July after all:

http://www.ucdenver.edu/about/newsroom/newsreleases/Pages/Update-on-suspicious-packages-at-Anschutz-Medical-Campus.aspx


Update on suspicious packages discovered at Anschutz Medical Campus
Package immediately investigated and turned over to authorities within hours of delivery.
7/25/2012

AURORA, Colo. (July 25, 2012) – Officials at the University of Colorado Anschutz Medical Campus can confirm that the suspicious package discovered at the Facilities Services building on Monday, July 23, 2012, was delivered to the campus by the United States Postal Service that same day, immediately investigated and turned over to authorities within hours of delivery. This package prompted the building’s evacuation at 12:26 p.m., and employees were allowed to return by 3:06 p.m.

The anonymous Fox News source that the package was received on July 12 and sat in the mailroom is inaccurate.

We remain unable to discuss anything further on this package in accordance with the order of Judge Sylvester on July 23, 2012.


None of this seems to suggest anymore than the previous evidence that he was a patsy.
More Media Bullshit does not refute that possibility either.
;)

[TheGrinch]

None of this seems to suggest anymore than the previous evidence that he was a patsy.
Well, when we're getting blatantly false reports that this package arrived before the shootings (only declared false because the school didn't want to be seen as having blood on their hands for a false report), and now we can't even find out any more information about it's validity because of a gag order, I'd say it doesn't scream confirmation either, but only opens more questions of potential foul play.

There are plenty of theories that could involve the guy being a lone gunman, and still set up to paint the narrative a particular way (maybe it was a neorological experiment gone wrong, but it's easier to paint it as mental illness than open up that pandora's box that we know they're involved in researching), we don't know, but stop acting liek there is anything wrong with being skeptical in a world where skepticism is very often warranted.

[Bruno]

Now it is even more odd.

Mailroom: "Hey, we've got a mysterious package over here! We think it is from the Batman shooter. Can you cops come and check it out?"

Cops: "THAT package isn't anything to worry about. But look over here at this other package! Now THIS package is from our shooter. You say it just arrived a few minutes/12 days ago? Wow, good thing we were right on the scene to apprehend this for evidence at the trial!"

[Bosco Warden]

Now that this guy is coming around and saying he doesnt know anything, it got me thinking about this.

What do you think?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToQ8PWYnu04

It says the CIA tried to use in the 5060's but it wasn't reliable for purposes they were using it THEN, but now with the control of the media?

It could do many things in the wrong hands.

[Indy Vidual]

In related news, a shredded up "suicide note" in some 30 pieces of yellow legal paper was discovered in Vince Foster's breifcase in plain view, after it had been thoroughly searched multiple times and those same pieces of paper went somehow inexplicably unnoticed.

Determined later to be a forgery. Now why would someone forge a suicide note....?

Vince Foster:
Law partner and friend of Hillary Rodham Clinton?
Vince Foster was found dead in Fort Marcy Park off the George Washington Parkway in Virginia, outside Washington, D.C., on July 20, 1993

Vince Foster?
The "only man in human history" to shoot himself (not wearing gloves) and leave no fingerprints on the gun?

[phill4paul]

Confirmed: James Egan Holmes was being treated by Dr. Lynne Fenton at the University of Colorado.

[Bruno]

Vince Foster:
Law partner and friend of Hillary Rodham Clinton?
Vince Foster was found dead in Fort Marcy Park off the George Washington Parkway in Virginia, outside Washington, D.C., on July 20, 1993

Vince Foster?
The "only man in human history" to shoot himself (not wearing gloves) and leave no fingerprints on the gun?

Yes, that's the one. The same Vince Foster who was able to shoot himself in one location, move his body to another, and then tuck his gun under his side.

Probably the only time a suicide gun has rested in an awkward position like this.

http://i46.tinypic.com/14m6eyu.jpg

[jonhowe]

I love how every article put out somehow "fits" into your fantasy mind-control story lines. This is becoming ridiculous.

[phill4paul]

I love how every article put out somehow "fits" into your fantasy mind-control story lines. This is becoming ridiculous.

No one forces you to read or even contribute, in any way, to this post.

[Bosco Warden]

This is actually from a video I stumbled on, I am just going to post it maybe you guys can make sense of it all.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7u3CLfVe8Xg


Could this be the knife next to the gas mask? http://s9.postimage.org/yj7s8ihjx/knife.jpg and this image: http://binaryapi.ap.org/5cdb7082d9da4795b88882adb8f680dc/460x.jpg

Look at how doctored the scene is: http://s8.postimage.org/h8k9n3kxf/knife6.jpg

Could this have been reported as "other weapon"? http://s8.postimage.org/ak7wr601f/otherweapon.png

Mainstream media is editing it out!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnpvqU333n0

(Notice the pool of blood in the background, and the trash bag in the background. Looks to me like they doctored the scene as quickly as they could because people are confirmed to have come out of the back entrance of that corner theater. The Sheila interview attests to that. They would have seen a gas mask and a bloody knife on the concrete, and it would have struck them immediately, such that they would testify about them. So a crooked cop/emt probably hid a blood-pack in a trash bag taken from an ambulance and poured some blood on the ground so they could claim Holmes stabbed somebody in the corner.)

UPDATE: It appears a motorcycle cop in that department died (supposedly) 4 days after the event in a "traffic accident". http://www.facebook.com/notes/colorado-springs-police-department/officer-matt...

I went to the local courthouse, the marshalls, and the FBI, and they all took this information very seriously. If we all go, it is the only way in which an actual investigation will occur into such a high level of corruption. Obviously the executive branch will have to change this from the bottom up. So you must do this. Obama is smack dab in the middle of this cover up, as you can see here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpbPy7TKe7E

I need someone to download and upload this interview which shows clear green(blue)-screen activity which is an attempt to corroborate the "Allie neck wound" story. http://video.insider.foxnews.com/v/1749079286001/

This is the other guy who has been investigating the gas mask (and from whom I got these pictures): http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2012/07/22/aurora-massacre-what-does-the-loca... "willyloman"

Attention: My friend and I seem to recall a local news interview from that night of a tall black dude standing with a white friend who mention letting a gas mask wearing cop into their theater through an emergency exit. I am not referring to the fake interview I have linked from fox news above, but an interview from that night. They let the "cop" in and he was warning people. I'm starting to wonder if the perp was supposed to run from the inside out the exit nearest to the road, but was tempted to abduct a child which required him to head out the back. So outside, he freaks out because of the sirens, stabs the poor girl multiple times and drops her, and went a couple theaters over and they let him inside where he was warning everyone of a shooter, and exited out of the theater out the corner (like he was supposed to, where "Sheila" was), and where people reported a cop jumping up and down out the exit door telling people to evacuate. So afraid to round the corner, (let alone: approach the road) with the gas mask and the knife, the man probably threw them down before any person (or any good cop) could notice them. If you have that interview, please let me know.

[Zippyjuan]

The "knife" in the "could this be" picture certainly looks like a folded piece of paper. In the "gas mask knife removed from scene" the "knife" seems to be a strap from the mask.

Any verifyable reports mentioning the second gas mask beyond some internet rumours?

[Bruno]

I love how every article put out somehow "fits" into your fantasy mind-control story lines. This is becoming ridiculous.

It may have been mind control or it may not have been. There are for sure many unanswered questions. We are asking them here but the pleaser not investigating the leads.

[phill4paul]

The "knife" in the "could this be" picture certainly looks like a folded piece of paper. In the "gas mask knife removed from scene" the "knife" seems to be a strap from the mask.

Any verifyable reports mentioning the second gas mask beyond some internet rumours?

Yeah, I don't see that as a knife at all. Perhaps a folded piece of paper. Maybe an ammo box?

[pcosmar]

Any verifyable reports mentioning the second gas mask beyond some internet rumours?

And where would those verifiable reports come from?

Faux Snooze?? Who reported the LIE that this thread is named for?

Half the trick these days is separating True and False in "news" reports.

[jonhowe]

It may have been mind control or it may not have been.


I mean this with the utmost respect, as I know you to be a bright guy and a passionate supporter of Ron... but are you serious?

Why is mind-control the 1st that pops into your head around this? People shoot groups of people all the time, dozens and dozens of times every year. What is so special about THIS incident that makes you think mind control? I've read this thread and the last one (the one now in Hot Topics) through. NOTHING in any of the media reports in ANY way indicates this is anything other than what it seems to be at face value; an unstable young man shot up a movie theater and rigged some explosives around his apartment as an attempt to distract 1st responders. And keep in mind, I'm about as distrustful of the government as one can be.

[phill4paul]

NOTHING in any of the media reports in ANY way indicates this is anything other than what it seems to be at face value;

Because the media would not be used by anyone to control the narrative? Why did we have a 'Black THIS Out' moneybomb? Or does the distrust of the media have some validity?

[pcosmar]

Why is mind-control the 1st that pops into your head around this? People shoot groups of people all the time, dozens and dozens of times every year. What is so special about THIS incident that makes you think mind control?

People shoot specific groups of people for specific reasons. Gang warfare, or Family disputes, or Employment Termination, etc.

The only cases of Mass random shooting involve Specific drugs (SSRIs) Those are in FACT mind control drugs.

They often involve a handler. In many cases there are numerous questions unanswered and other people involved,,seen by witnesses and yet unidentified.

and there is the Media manipulation and Lies+Political ramifications.

[Bruno]

I mean this with the utmost respect, as I know you to be a bright guy and a passionate supporter of Ron... but are you serious?

Why is mind-control the 1st that pops into your head around this? People shoot groups of people all the time, dozens and dozens of times every year. What is so special about THIS incident that makes you think mind control? I've read this thread and the last one (the one now in Hot Topics) through. NOTHING in any of the media reports in ANY way indicates this is anything other than what it seems to be at face value; an unstable young man shot up a movie theater and rigged some explosives around his apartment as an attempt to distract 1st responders. And keep in mind, I'm about as distrustful of the government as one can be.

It wasn't the first thing that popped into my head at all. I am keeping an open mind.

I do know there were reports of a 2nd shooter or person involved, matching the description of a man seen running with him to his apartment hours before the shooting. Why aren't they actively seeking him as a person of interest?