In wake of CO shooting, Krauthammer suggests locking up more people.

[Anti Federalist]

He's pleased that guns have become mopre restricted.

Now, more people need to be locked up.

As if we didn't already have more people locked up than other place in the world.



Krauthammer: Aurora shooting a reminder that concerns for civil liberties may lead to improper treatment of mentally ill

12:44 PM 07/21/2012
By Jeff Poor

http://dailycaller.com/2012/07/21/krauthammer-aurora-tragedy-shows-civil-liberties-trump-how-we-treat-the-mentally-ill/?google_editors_picks=true

On Friday’s “Special Report” on the Fox News Channel, Washington Post columnist Charles Krauthammer, a board-certified psychiatrist, revisited a discussion from last year around the time Democratic Arizona Rep. Gabrielle Giffords was shot in the head by an allegedly insane Jared Loughner: Is society properly handling the mentally ill?

In the wake of yesterday’s mass shooting at an Aurora, Colorado movie theater, Krauthammer suggested journalists and elected officials should focus on that question instead of playing politics with tragedy.

“I’m sure people like to draw application and look to society and all this stuff,” Krauthammer said. “Remember when we had a shooting in Tucson people began to shoot accusation, to level accusations that people in politics, tea party. We even had a false report this morning on ABC of a connection to the tea party which is not only scandalous, but stupid. Why would you even look in that direction? But I think we are now to the extent it will be a political side to this. People will talk about the gun control. The one thing we never speak about is the way that we treat the mentally ill and dangerous people. It seems to me that the numbers you cited, that’s a pretty large number. That’s more than two a year of these since Columbine. I don’t know if records were kept 50 years ago, but that sounds like a lot.”

The Post columnist noted that, although guns have become more regulated, the occurrence of these incidents is on the rise.

“Over time, over the decades, our gun control laws have gotten more tight and more strict. At the same time how we treat the mentally ill has gotten far more lenient and loose,” Krauthammer said. “Now, for good reason — we don’t want to commit people willy-nilly. We believe in civil liberties. But, on the other hand, there’s always a risk. The threshold for committing people to a psychiatric facility on the basis of dangerousness has risen over the decades. I would commit people myself in the ’70s when I was a psychiatrist at a mass general hospital. But since then, the threshold, how difficult it is, has risen, and you end up with people on the street 100 years ago, 50 years ago would now be in institutions. I’m not leveling blame at anybody, but I’m saying as a society, we made a decision, take the risk of tragedy in order to ensure civil liberties, and it’s a difficult, difficult choice.”

Host Bret Baier asked Krauthammer if there were any signs, based on his expert opinion, that accused Aurora shooter James Holmes was mentally ill.

“Jared [Loughner], the guy in Tucson, was psychotic from the way he spoke,” he said. “This guy seems more organized the way he did the shooting. He had it all organized. There was a lot of thinking, premeditation, armor and the theater of it. I’m not sure he is a raving psychotic. But clearly, if there were no accomplices, and I can’t manual there is political or ideological one this is expression of something unusual. Obviously there is a mental illness here and we’ll determine what is it with further examinations.”

[tttppp]

Its sad to say, but most psychiatrists do not help patients, especially the ones locked in a mental hospitals. Additionally, once you get committed, its hard to get free. What he is suggesting is basically imprisoning innocent people just in case one in a million of them really deserves it.

[low preference guy]

likely end result: people getting locked up for refusing to take anti depressants, whether they have depression or not.

[Weston White]

The ever wise words of wisdom: “Better a thousand innocent men are locked up, than one guilty man roam free.” – Dwight K. Schrute, The Office

Really though they don't call those in the field of psychiatry “quacks” for nothing (e.g., the shape and position of a person's facial features dictates their intellectual abilities).

[sailingaway]

Huh. And he shows his neocon philosophy.

off twitter:

TED ‏@TedsReaI
If guns kill people, then pencils misspell words, cars make people drive drunk, and spoons make you fat.
Retweeted by Justin B

[jbauer]

If we locked everyone up there would be no one left to shoot at!!!

[Anti Federalist]

If we locked everyone up there would be no one left to shoot at!!!

LOL - Thread winner.

[parocks]

Huh. And he shows his neocon philosophy.

off twitter:

TED ‏@TedsReaI
If guns kill people, then pencils misspell words, cars make people drive drunk, and spoons make you fat.
Retweeted by Justin B

Right, this is a good example of the difference between a neocon and typical republicans who support more defense spending and military action than Ron Paul does. Not really relevant on this thread, but on others

[John F Kennedy III]

Krauthammer should be locked up.

[musicmax]

Irony meter: A disabled Jew of German heritage arguing that the government should have more sequestration powers over those deemed "defective".

[IDefendThePlatform]

1996 essay by our good friend chuck Krauthammer:
"Disarm the Citizenry, but not yet"

All you need to know about Charlie K in one sentence:

Ultimately, a civilized society must disarm its citizenry if it is to have a modicum of domestic tranquillity of the kind enjoyed in sister democracies like Canada and Britain.


http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2011/03/anybody-have-complete-text-of-this.html

[anaconda]

Krauthammer should be locked up.

I just feel sorry for him.

[oyarde]

That guy is a nut , without question.

[Weston White]

1996 essay by our good friend chuck Krauthammer:
"Disarm the Citizenry, but not yet"

All you need to know about Charlie K in one sentence:


Ultimately, a civilized society must disarm its citizenry if it is to have a modicum of domestic tranquillity of the kind enjoyed in sister democracies like Canada and Britain.


Oh, so that explains their need to position twelve CCTV cameras along with a grouping of foot-patrol police on virtually every street corner in those nations. I have been wondering about that (as I had hought it might have had something to do with their utter lack of personal privacy and freedom), whelp, case closed on that one. Thanks for solving that one for me doctor!

[CaptainAmerica]

sounds like a typical baby boomer solution : "just lock em up" . Ironic , I heard some guys at a NAPA auto parts nearby my house talking to the cashier(all baby boomer aged) talking about locking up crazy people who walk down sidewalks . I overheard the 3 men talking about how "back in the good ole days" "they" use to lock up "crazies" and take them off the streets. Yeah, ..such a wise solution isn't it...thought crime.

[James Madison]

I just feel sorry for him.

I don't.

[Philhelm]

While I personally find psychology to be fascinating, it also presents the most sinister threat to liberty imagineable. While there are certainly people out there who are "looney toons," my aunt being one of them, I do not believe or trust the dogma presented by the psychological community. If a psychologist were to analyze every swinging Richard in the world, I guarantee you that they will find a disorder for every one of them. Feeling a bit glum? Depression! A bit self-centered? Narcissistic Personality Disorder! Shake your leg frequently? Restless Leg Syndrome! Bored out of your mind? ADD! Attention to detail? OCD! Voted for Ron Paul during the Republican Primary...?

This is the reason that I am apprehensive whenever a shooting like this occurs, above all other considerations. All of the would-be psychologists go out of their way in order to label the shooter somehow. Morality becomes irrelevant as it is swept aside by the notion that we are all "programmed" entities whose actions are determined by our psychological traits. It takes the concept of personal responsibility away from us. This is dangerous, since if there is no right or wrong, then why wouldn't killing someone be just as valid of an action as shaking someone's hand? If there is no right or wrong, then any and all actions are perfectly valid.

Meanwhile, all of the people, the same ones that would shrug their shoulders if they saw you getting mugged in an alley, express how their "hearts go out to the family and victims." This ubiquitous line clearly shows a lack of real thought. They say it, not because they really mean it, but because they know that it is what they are supposed to say. Of course, this outpouring of love from the rabble is accompanied by calls for summary executions (thereby undermining the rule of law that should exist in a Constitutional Republic) and the removal of those deemed as lesser beings from society, sweeping them under the carpet, destroying their lives, just so that "society" can feel safe. Nevermind how many innocent lives would be destroyed.

Finally, people look at any violent action as being crazy, yet never weigh it with the agenda or rationalization of the perpetrator, all the while forgetting that the world is, and always has been, bloodthirsty and violent. The common thread with these shootings (including Columbine, VA Tech, etc.) is that the individuals were outcasts with few human connections. Judging the way in which people revel in the misfortunes of others, and treat those who are outcasts, it is not hard to imagine how someone who is socially awkward and not allowed to make human connections, would eventually decide that other people are of little value. Their hopes and dreams turned to rage, and since they could not indulge in the former, they indulged in the latter, thereby getting some small measure of revenge against the people, or a representation of those people, who have slighted them over the years. It has nothing to do with the DSM-IV. They wanted revenge, and made a moral decision to commit an evil act.

[Carlybee]

Krauthammer should be locked up.

In a FEMA camp

[seyferjm]

F Krauthammer, he is an irritating and whiny neo-con.

[Dr.3D]

Krauthammer should be locked up.
What the heck is a kraut hammer? Is that a tool for making Sourkraut?

[Origanalist]

I just feel sorry for him.

I don't, lock him up.

[tttppp]

While I personally find psychology to be fascinating, it also presents the most sinister threat to liberty imagineable. While there are certainly people out there who are "looney toons," my aunt being one of them, I do not believe or trust the dogma presented by the psychological community. If a psychologist were to analyze every swinging Richard in the world, I guarantee you that they will find a disorder for every one of them. Feeling a bit glum? Depression! A bit self-centered? Narcissistic Personality Disorder! Shake your leg frequently? Restless Leg Syndrome! Bored out of your mind? ADD! Attention to detail? OCD! Voted for Ron Paul during the Republican Primary...?



This is why its hard to get out of a hospital once committed. Psychiatrists can classify anyone's personality as a disorder. Psychiatrists really do do this. Even when they have evidence you don't have the disorders, they ignore it.

[pacelli]

At the same time how we treat the mentally ill has gotten far more lenient and loose..

From one doctor to another, you've been out of practice for far too long. The mentally ill within psychiatric and community environments are more restricted now then ever before. When you were in practice, a suicidal individual would be committed and stay for 30 days until doctors were "sure" that the individual would not commit suicide upon discharge. In today's environment, you're lucky if you get approval for a 3 day LOS.

Krauthammer is off base here. Its sad really.

[Nickels]

This is why its hard to get out of a hospital once committed. Psychiatrists can classify anyone's personality as a disorder. Psychiatrists really do do this. Even when they have evidence you don't have the disorders, they ignore it.

This is why the good people of Scientology founded a watchdog organization to investigate and expose psychiatric abuse.
http://www.cchr.org/ they are the biggest anti-drug, anti-psychiatry group in the world, and their rhetoric is worth learning, they can literally scapegoat everything on psychiatry.

[low preference guy]

From one doctor to another, you've been out of practice for far too long. The mentally ill within psychiatric and community environments are more restricted now then ever before. When you were in practice, a suicidal individual would be committed and stay for 30 days until doctors were "sure" that the individual would not commit suicide upon discharge. In today's environment, you're lucky if you get approval for a 3 day LOS.

what is LOS?

[pacelli]

what is LOS?

A commonly used acronym in psychiatric environments and research, it stands for Length of Stay.

[tttppp]

This is why the good people of Scientology founded a watchdog organization to investigate and expose psychiatric abuse.
http://www.cchr.org/ they are the biggest anti-drug, anti-psychiatry group in the world, and their rhetoric is worth learning, they can literally scapegoat everything on psychiatry.

I guess there is some validity to some of what Scientology does. I remember Scientology helped treat people's health problems from 9/11, and it did appear to help a lot. It would be nice to see more people come out against the psychiatric system.

[tttppp]

From one doctor to another, you've been out of practice for far too long. The mentally ill within psychiatric and community environments are more restricted now then ever before. When you were in practice, a suicidal individual would be committed and stay for 30 days until doctors were "sure" that the individual would not commit suicide upon discharge. In today's environment, you're lucky if you get approval for a 3 day LOS.

Krauthammer is off base here. Its sad really.

Thats not my experience. One psychiatric hospital near me generally keeps their patients at least a week for evaluation. And they have the option of issuing a physicians emergency certificate if they want to.

[kathy88]

I started work on a Masters in Psych about 7 years ago, and the more I read the more convinced I was that I had every single diagnosis we studied. I quit.

[truelies]

Krauthammer should be locked up.

or simply declared Outlaw by decent people and then to be treated as wolves are.

[Pericles]

I actually saw that program live, and the author selectively quoted Krauthammer.

Krauthammer went on to say, that we have no evidence that these types af violent incidents are becomming more common, and in any case increased firearms restrictions won't chaing anything.

The difference is that previously, people thought to be incompetent had fewer civil rights and were locked up more easily thatn they are today. If there is a cause of this, which he doubted, it moght be more unstable people atre on the loose.