Arizona Pastor Arrested, Jailed for Holding Bible Study in Home

[tfurrh]

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2012/07/11/arizona-pastor-arrested-jailed-for-holding-bible-study-in-home-his-wife-says-it-defies-logic/


Bible study leader Michael Salman is sitting in jail today after his home was raided earlier this week by more than a dozen Phoenix, Ariz. police officers and city officials. His offense? The city says people aren’t allowed to hold private Bible studies on their own property.

Salman was sentenced to 60 days in jail, three years probation and received a $12,180 fine for “the crime.” His wife Suzanne spoke with Fox and Friends this morning to express her shock and disbelief at the entire situation. According to Suzanne, the city told her that her husband was essentially arrested because the Bible study was at a private house .. and that essentially, it’s a church. Since they weren’t zoned for church, they were told they were breaking the rules.



saw this on another forum....comments on the link are contesting the validity of the story.

[CaptainAmerica]

The government is out of control locally and nationally. This is something people have always feared would happen in the 1990s and now it really is beginning little by little. This happened in California recently when a city passed an ordinance to ban bible studying in private homes.

[Acala]

It isn't the city persecuting Christians. It is angry neighbors dragging the city into a dispute:

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2008-01-17/news/michael-salman-wants-to-build-a-church-in-his-backyard-his-neighbors-aren-t-buying-it/

[CaptainAmerica]

It isn't the city persecuting Christians. It is angry neighbors dragging the city into a dispute:

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2008-01-17/news/michael-salman-wants-to-build-a-church-in-his-backyard-his-neighbors-aren-t-buying-it/

Actually I mentioned California. A city council in one of the southern California cities banned bible studies. Furthermore, he has the right to do what he wants with his private property. I've no problem with churches that hold baptisms in their swimming pools because they do that in arizona and the entire church shows up. The government just loves to seize power even locally.

[Acala]

The government is out of control locally and nationally. This is something people have always feared would happen in the 1990s and now it really is beginning little by little. This happened in California recently when a city passed an ordinance to ban bible studying in private homes.

No they didn't. There is a long thread on it here. There was a long-standing zoning ordinance no different from what most cities in the USA have and it was invoked because the Bible study guy got into a fight with his neighbor and they called the city to complain.

If you live in an urban area in the USA you are almost certainly prevented by land use ordinances from operating a business, a church, or any other high traffic non-residential activity in your home. And, typically, the city only enforces when someone complains. It has nothing to do with government persecuting religion.

[Acala]

Actually I mentioned California. A city council in one of the southern California cities banned bible studies.

I was responding to the OP. And then I responded to you.

[presence]

I'm not sure how this is any different than holding a calculus study group at your home. Or is that illegal too?

[XTreat]

\\

[Romulus]

misleading story is misleading...

the guy is a nut


Salman, they found out, had a prison record: He was an ex-gang member who'd done time for a drive-by shooting.

[Acala]

I'm not sure how this is any different than holding a calculus study group at your home. Or is that illegal too?

Yes, if it involved dozens of people and loudspeakers. It is a RESIDENTIAL zone. Not a business zone. I oppose land use controls, but this has nothing to do with the Christian theme. It is about parking, noise, traffic, and annoying the neighbors.

[presence]

I wonder which he'll serve more time for.. the drive-by or the bible study

[presence]

Yes, if it involved dozens of people and loudspeakers. It is a RESIDENTIAL zone. Not a business zone. I oppose land use controls, but this has nothing to do with the Christian theme. It is about parking, noise, traffic, and annoying the neighbors.

I didn't pick up the loudspeakers element from the article. Was that from another source?

[Romulus]

It isn't the city persecuting Christians. It is angry neighbors dragging the city into a dispute:

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2008-01-17/news/michael-salman-wants-to-build-a-church-in-his-backyard-his-neighbors-aren-t-buying-it/

I'm reading this.... not to take issue on what he wants to do with his property.... but the man is fruit loops.

[jmdrake]

misleading story is misleading...

the guy is a nut

Red herring argument is a red herring. What does his past life as a gang member have to do with his current life as a Bible study leader? Read through the Bible itself and you will find many with sketchy pasts.

[Romulus]

Red herring argument is a red herring. What does his past life as a gang member have to do with his current life as a Bible study leader? Read through the Bible itself and you will find many with sketchy pasts.

I understand that...

but Fox sold this story as a poor little man having tea and bible studies had his door kicked in..... not so, read this story:

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2008-01-17/news/michael-salman-wants-to-build-a-church-in-his-backyard-his-neighbors-aren-t-buying-it/5/

and no I don't think the punishment fits his 'crime'. but look at the whole story..

his goal:


"Like put a cease-and-desist on us holding worship there. Eventually, the city can pay for the church!"

[Acala]

I didn't pick up the loudspeakers element from the article. Was that from another source?

I posted the other source. He wants to build a church in his backyard and have regular services with amplified music etc.

I believe a property owner should be able to do what he wants on his property. So I oppose zoning laws. But this guy wants everyone to believe this is about the City persecuting Christians. It isn't. It is about pissed off neighbors in a residential area trying to keep this guy from trying to run a large, disruptive enterprise next door and pulling the city into the dispute.

I can assure you that the City of Phoenix is not interested in persecuting Christians. It isn't even very interested in enforcing the zoning laws because it lacks the resources. Hence, zoning enforcement is complaint-driven, as in most cities.

This boils down to a guy pissing off his neighbors.

[CaptainAmerica]

No they didn't. There is a long thread on it here. There was a long-standing zoning ordinance no different from what most cities in the USA have and it was invoked because the Bible study guy got into a fight with his neighbor and they called the city to complain.

If you live in an urban area in the USA you are almost certainly prevented by land use ordinances from operating a business, a church, or any other high traffic non-residential activity in your home. And, typically, the city only enforces when someone complains. It has nothing to do with government persecuting religion. This fallacy of an argument is the same drivel that a person defending government farming regulations would say..."because its against ordinance blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah..BLAHHHHHHH." blah bleh BLEE bla bloooop.

[Acala]

This fallacy of an argument is the same drivel that a person defending government farming regulations would say..."because its against ordinance blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah..BLAHHHHHHH." blah bleh BLEE bla bloooop.

Where did I defend any ordinance? I simply pointed out that, contrary to the assertion in the post, no city enacted an ordinance banning Bible study.

I oppose zoning law. But I also oppose trying to get publicity by claiming you are being persecuted for your religion when, in fact, you are simply being prosecuted by disinterested authorities because you are a douchebag who annoyed your neighbors.