Weighing the Pros and Cons of Ron Paul VP Offer

[CaptUSA]

Understand that this is very hypothetical and Ron Paul might refuse the offer, but I thought it might be interesting to examine this from Romney's perspective.
Pros:


It would fire up the liberty movement - the quintessential swing vote. Even if many are unhappy with the pairing, it does give a huge platform for these ideas.
The position holds little power, so he could throw a political bone without fear of any actual "radical" changes happening.
Ron Paul has already passed the "Presidential" test. In polling, people have preferred him to be President at the same levels as Romney or Obama.
He's already been vetted.
It would send a message to the conservative base that Romney is taking the economic problems seriously.
It would unite the delegates at the convention. (less in-fighting and more cooperation)
Ron Paul would absolutely CRUSH Biden in a debate.
The selection may appeal to just enough democrats in swing states to make the difference.
Ron Paul is not running for any other office, so he wouldn't be removing an "R" from a sitting Governor/Senator/Congressman's seat.

Cons:


The neocons in the party would be pissed. (although, they're going to vote for the "R" regardless of whose name is attached)
It might hurt some of his larger fundraising. (although, the smaller donations may pick up)
The newsletters will come up again. The media will run with it again.
Ron Paul isn't from a "swing" state, although he does have connections to PA and NC.
Ron Paul will not "stay on message". Romney would have to accept that Ron Paul speaks for Ron Paul.
He would be inviting criticism from within his own administration - day one. (although, Ron Paul has proven to be pretty respectful to Romney throughout this process)


Any more?

Please use this thread to discuss this from Romney's point of view. Let's not get into whether or not it would be wise for Paul to accept.

[angelatc]

It would quash the chances of a Rand Paul 2016 run.

[tbone717]

I think you pretty much nailed the pros and cons. From Romney's perspective though, I think Rand will probably be a "safer" choice.

[CaptUSA]

It would quash the chances of a Rand Paul 2016 run.
Would that be a Pro or Con from Romney's perspective?

It seems like a Pro because that would mean that the ticket would win. From Romney's perspective, (and for some neocons, too, I suppose) this would mean they could foreseeably hold off the Paul's for another 4 years.

[Dublin4Paul]

Really good analysis, but I would take issue with one of your pros and one of your cons:


Ron Paul would absolutely CRUSH Biden in a debate.
On the issues of substance sure. It would be glorious to see Ron make Biden squirm when he starts carpet-bombing some truth, especially in regards to foreign policy, supposedly Biden's "strong-suit" (lol). However, I'm sure you know as well as anyone that the debate will be dominated by the fact that Paul and Romney have virtually nothing in common other than the party they belong to, the moderators will incessantly bring this up, and Biden will just constantly demagogue with the issue as soon as he feels Ron might be putting him into a bind. I think overall, it'll make Ron look bad, even though it obviously shouldn't.


It might hurt some of his larger fundraising. (although, the smaller donations may pick up)
I doubt it would. As you said, the vice presidency is essentially powerless. A man who has similar pomp and circumstance surrounding him as the president, only without real responsibilities. The big donors would just urge Romney to not have Ron participate in any cabinet meetings, and to basically never speak to him unless they happen to bump into each other in the hallway. Though, now that I typed this all out, I see I've disagreed with one of your cons, only to add a new one to replace it.

[Ivash]

Con:

*There are better choices. Choices that 'give diversity' to the ticket, or come from key battleground states, or shore up Romney's base far more than Ron Paul could, etc. Choices that actually support Romney.

Ron Paul will not be Romney's VP. I'm positive he hasn't even gotten the vetting papers (I'm pretty certain Rand hasn't either, but Romney's camp is being typically tight-lipped about the issue).

[CaptUSA]

Yeah, I have to agree. The biggest con is Ron Paul not staying on message.

However, I was kind of imagining Ron Paul being unleashed in a Biden debate. Something like, "Romney and I have some disagreements, but that's what I'm here for... To teach him! America doesn't need another rubber stamp." And then he could carry on his debate as normal.

If Romney could unleash Paul like this, it would certainly bring a new dynamic to the way campaigns are currently run. But it might also be a huge positive from Romney's perspective. If people can accept that they don't have to agree with Romney 100% to support him, he may fare better with the middle.

[trey4sports]

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/554/facepalm.jpg

[RickyJ]

It would quash the chances of a Rand Paul 2016 run.

That would be on the pro side for sure. :D

Ron Paul will not even endorse Mitt Romney much less be his VP. It will never happen because Ron Paul is a man of principle. I'm not saying Romney wouldn't offer it, because he might, he has no principles, but Ron would never accept it. Rand on the other hand might. Still I would not vote for a ticket with Romney in it, not going to happen.

[CaptUSA]

Ron Paul will not even endorse Mitt Romney much less be his VP. It will never happen because Ron Paul is a man of principle. I'm not saying Romney wouldn't offer it, because he might, he has no principles, but Ron would never accept it. Rand on the other hand might. Still I would not vote for a ticket with Romney in it, not going to happen.Yeah, I doubt he'd accept it, but I'd sure vote for it. Not because I want Romney to be President, but think of the platform it would give Ron Paul to discuss our issues! If Romney asked Paul to join the ticket, it would legitimize Paul to a huge percentage of the population. Romney would benefit in the short-term, but we'd all benefit in the long-term.

If the offer were made, with the clear discussion that Ron could be Ron, then I don't think he'd turn it down. The megaphone would just be too loud to refuse. But if they wanted him to toe the Romney line, he'd tell them to go to hell.

[sailingaway]

Yeah, I doubt he'd accept it, but I'd sure vote for it. Not because I want Romney to be President, but think of the platform it would give Ron Paul to discuss our issues! If Romney asked Paul to join the ticket, it would legitimize Paul to a huge percentage of the population. Romney would benefit in the short-term, but we'd all benefit in the long-term.

If the offer were made, with the clear discussion that Ron could be Ron, then I don't think he'd turn it down. The megaphone would just be too loud to refuse. But if they wanted him to toe the Romney line, he'd tell them to go to hell.


I'd vote for it as well, with RON, because he has a thirty year record of not changing his views to suit others, and if I can't trust that, I might as well give up. No one else would do, however.

And I sincerely doubt it will happen.

If it did happen I would want us to nominate him from the floor as VP on his own strength. Obviously, more than us would have to vote for it on the ballot.

[Plague-of-Locutus]

The position holds little power, so he could throw a political bone without fear of any actual "radical" changes happening.



I assume this would be something negotiated before an offer is extended and accepted. Ron would want a hand in something he actively talks about. Remember, he will be held accountable by us to do what he can if he ends up in office. He wants to help.

This is why I continue to defend the VP slot and not trash it. The positions power and effectiveness is defined by the President. Romney could do something cool and unprecedented if he ultimately ends up with the nomination.

[EBounding]

The only way Ron will be offered VP is if Romney starts tanking 15 points below Obama over the next few weeks and Mitt's first VP pick pulls out at the last second. It would be such a desperate move for power though. Ron would be a huge political liability. I don't buy that Mitt is a robot and can be reprogrammed to change his views. Mitt has an agenda. He'll say anything to get elected, but he'll govern like he did in Massachusetts, just with different rhetoric.

I think the list is accurate but it's so unlikely. I really don't think it's something Romney has seriously considered. Paul's more likely to win the GOP nomination than Romney picking him as VP.

[mello]

The only other possible upside for taking the job is that if Romney dies of a massive coronary or something tragic, Ron Paul would become President.

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

Understand that this is very hypothetical and Ron Paul might refuse the offer, but I thought it might be interesting to examine this from Romney's perspective.
Pros:


It would fire up the liberty movement - the quintessential swing vote. Even if many are unhappy with the pairing, it does give a huge platform for these ideas.
The position holds little power, so he could throw a political bone without fear of any actual "radical" changes happening.
Ron Paul has already passed the "Presidential" test. In polling, people have preferred him to be President at the same levels as Romney or Obama.
He's already been vetted.
It would send a message to the conservative base that Romney is taking the economic problems seriously.
It would unite the delegates at the convention. (less in-fighting and more cooperation)
Ron Paul would absolutely CRUSH Biden in a debate.
The selection may appeal to just enough democrats in swing states to make the difference.
Ron Paul is not running for any other office, so he wouldn't be removing an "R" from a sitting Governor/Senator/Congressman's seat.

Cons:


The neocons in the party would be pissed. (although, they're going to vote for the "R" regardless of whose name is attached)
It might hurt some of his larger fundraising. (although, the smaller donations may pick up)
The newsletters will come up again. The media will run with it again.
Ron Paul isn't from a "swing" state, although he does have connections to PA and NC.
Ron Paul will not "stay on message". Romney would have to accept that Ron Paul speaks for Ron Paul.
He would be inviting criticism from within his own administration - day one. (although, Ron Paul has proven to be pretty respectful to Romney throughout this process)


Any more?

Please use this thread to discuss this from Romney's point of view. Let's not get into whether or not it would be wise for Paul to accept.

As I've often complained about in here, the two party system doesn't create pure agendas. Each party is a combination of many which have had to compromise their agendas. So, please, stop bitching about the mission statement being compromised. Very few in here understand how the electoral system has never done spit for the disadvantaged people just as it isn't going to do anything for us now regardless of who or what wins the election. The people in the past have only won during times of advancements back towards the reverence of our Founding Fathers (by way of American Movements), towards the natural law they declared, and towards the Civil Purpose they established for the disadvantaged people.

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

Yeah, I have to agree. The biggest con is Ron Paul not staying on message.

However, I was kind of imagining Ron Paul being unleashed in a Biden debate. Something like, "Romney and I have some disagreements, but that's what I'm here for... To teach him! America doesn't need another rubber stamp." And then he could carry on his debate as normal.

If Romney could unleash Paul like this, it would certainly bring a new dynamic to the way campaigns are currently run. But it might also be a huge positive from Romney's perspective. If people can accept that they don't have to agree with Romney 100% to support him, he may fare better with the middle.

Ron Paul shouldn't have run for office. Instead, he should reside in the background as the figure head, philosophically speaking, regarding the wrong direction our nation has been deceived away from our Founding Fathers, from the foundation of the natural law they declared, and from the Civil Purpose they established for the disadvantaged people.

[fisharmor]

Very few in here understand how the electoral system has never done spit for the disadvantaged people just as it isn't going to do anything for us now regardless of who or what wins the election.

This is what I was thinking here....
Offer RP the VP slot? Think that through.

"Hi, I'm Mitt Romney and I just totally destroyed your chances by cheating and feeding the media whatever they wanted to hear to get mouth-breathing idiots who think Saddam Hussein was responsible for 9/11 to come support me.

"The base has now galvanized behind me, including a lot of your own supporters, after your own flesh and blood endorsed me.

"You lost. Period. I owe you exactly nothing and stand to gain exactly nothing by being generous to you.

"Here, take the VP slot!"


I think Trey put it best in post #8.

[sailingaway]

Show me even ONE Ron Paul supporter who is 'galvanized' behind Romney.

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

This is what I was thinking here....
Offer RP the VP slot? Think that through.

"Hi, I'm Mitt Romney and I just totally destroyed your chances by cheating and feeding the media whatever they wanted to hear to get mouth-breathing idiots who think Saddam Hussein was responsible for 9/11 to come support me.

"The base has now galvanized behind me, including a lot of your own supporters, after your own flesh and blood endorsed me.

"You lost. Period. I owe you exactly nothing and stand to gain exactly nothing by being generous to you.

"Here, take the VP slot!"


I think Trey put it best in post #8.

The two party system was created to judge Constitutionality because the Supreme Court didn't perform this task in its infancy taking up that responsibility later on. In other words, which ever party that won the majority got to decide how the Constitution would be enforced. The left / right paradigm is a false dichotomy. The reason I admire Ron Paul is because of how he avoids speaking about hot pink liberals and baby blue conservatives, or Democrats and Republicans. Ron Paul isn't immature and childish like president Obama. I'm trying to establish how people in here should think in order to shame those who think in such a way.
There is more than just civil rights. There is also the greater power of the natural rights. Unlike civil right, they don't work on the individual level which tend to favor the lawyers. The establishment of natural rights attack such works of inequity as counterfeit banking, warmongering, whore mongering, and other such nasty endeavors. They do this by sobering up those who have become drunk on the false powers of manipulation and by taking away the pleasures involved in the partying afterwards.

[NoOneButPaul]

The delegates elect the VP... these people don't choose anything.

[CaptUSA]

I thought of a couple more...

Pro: With a Ron Paul VP pick, the dems talking point of "bringing back the policies of Bush" disappears.
Pro: Ron Paul was incredibly successful at attacking Romney's opponents during the primary. **This may be the biggest thing a VP does!**

Con: Paul's age could come up again...
Con: Romney may have to answer a lot of questions about Ron Paul statements (although, there's an easy answer... "We don't agree on that, but we both know this country needs dramatic fixing")

[sailingaway]

As I've said, I'd vote for it, because I think Ron Paul will always be Ron Paul.

This may keep Romney from supporting the idea, even if nominated from the floor, but it will depend on whether in the end he is more afraid of being challenged, or of losing.

None of the VPs he has been 'vetting' would bring him any new voters.

[CaptUSA]

None of the VPs he has been 'vetting' would bring him any new voters.

You're right. I'd say that's a pretty big "Pro", right there.

I think the real question comes down to "Does Romney want to win?"

[AJ Antimony]

My favorite pro:

It would add to the ticket an MD who voted against Obamacare

[bunklocoempire]

from Romney's perspective.

Two. Two that IMO cut through all the b.s.

EDIT: Assuming Romney defeated Obamney

Pro: The liberty movement would relax and weaken.

Con: Truth might have a better platform (I can easily see a VP Ron/Rand blacked out for four years.)

Establishment doesn't like truth to see the light of day unless it's a half truth spun in a manner to keep or gain more control.

The establishment has too much to lose to consider a Paul VP slot, and, I believe they are too arrogant to even think their gravy train will end by not involving Paul/Paul.

Finally, there is nothing that Paul/Paul can offer them that they want that they couldn't wrangle themselves with more deception with say an alternative party, pledge, or some other gimmick.

It's an extravagent puppet show deemed worthy of the millions upon millions of $'s that these hacks put on. Perhaps if there were some solid differences between the establishment in the parties I could take the puppet show a bit more seriously. I can't.

My worst case scenario is Paul or Paul accepts a VP slot and lose to Obama, and then any notion of 'liberty' candidate actually being able to win will be dismissed and parroted by GOP party-line voters for the rest of their days. (ala the Ross Perot gave us clinton crowd):rolleyes:

Forget any notions of shortcuts/easy ways to do this. It's a tough row to hoe -embrace it. Take the pain!!. We've come a pretty good way without the overlords help, we sure don't need 'em now.

blah, blah, blah.. lol ;):)

ONWARD!! NOBP!! (PUSA)

[Weston White]

If you are a struggling neo-con, why settle for the likes of Ron Paul, when you can have Nuke-Em-All Condi? And for the bonus round acquire eye-candy for the feminists and “minorities” alike. Now, that is #winning the Charlie Sheen way!

[anaconda]

It would quash the chances of a Rand Paul 2016 run.

Would help it I think.

[AdamT]

Won't happen.

[anaconda]

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/554/facepalm.jpg

Listen up folks: The powers that be will not let Ron Paul sit one heartbeat away from the Presidency under ANY circumstances. I approve of this face palm.

[TheTexan]

In this hypothetical impossible scenario, I've given it some thought, and I'd be 100% for it. You remember how morbidly afraid people were of Ron Paul but claimed to like him on domestic issues? If he were just a heartbeat from the presidency, and Republicans were basically forced to support him as Romney's VP choice, it'd throw their cognitive dissonance into a frenzy. It would be fucking glorious.

[Carson]

No way those that seem to own the election process would allow and honest man in a position that could lead to a move into the drivers seat.

The chances of something like that may never be closer again than it is right now and on up until the November election but not in that way. I can't imagine an offer of a Vice Presidential position being part of any chance to regain control.

These are very shaky times for the next few months. A lot can happen.

An offer like that I just can't imagine taking place.

At least not for either owned party.

[Anti Federalist]

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/554/facepalm.jpg


Listen up folks: The powers that be will not let Ron Paul sit one heartbeat away from the Presidency under ANY circumstances. I approve of this face palm.

This is truth.

Any talk of any Paul being selected for the VP spot, in light of recent news is foolish, at best.

What would be even more foolish is to attach themselves in any way to this oncoming train wreck.

I, as well, concur with this facepalm.

[sailingaway]

If you are a struggling neo-con, why settle for the likes of Ron Paul, when you can have Nuke-Em-All Condi? And for the bonus round acquire eye-candy for the feminists and “minorities” alike. Now, that is #winning the Charlie Sheen way!

because with Romney's neocon foreign policy team he already has the nuke em all vote locked up.

WE are the swing vote.

However, I never said (to the facepalms) that it would HAPPEN, I said if it did I would vote for it, out of faith in Ron.

[affa]

never, ever going to happen.

we're on ignore, haven't you noticed. TPTB are done with us, and it's up to us in Tampa.

There is zero reason for them to give RP a VP nod. They'd rather lose.

[row333au]

Lyndon B Johnson knew that "VP is a useless position with a useless office"..."Like tits on a bull"... He despised that position as he was ignored most of the time by JFK for which his brother Robert (Attorney General) have more gravity and center stage, while VP LBJ was relegated to the background... although he was put there to be the establishment's representative (forcing then inexperience JFK (Democrat) to take a Republican running mate).... But JFK was smart enough to use him more as an image to win over Republican leaning supporters...

In Ron Paul's case, its to make the Establishment and Neocons way of winning over to vote Romney in, then highjack the movement. And if it succeed nothing good will come from it....

No compromise its all about "good vs evil"....

[Southerner]

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/554/facepalm.jpg

Ditto that.

1. Mittens would never offer.
2. Ron would not accept.
3. We can hope for RAND as veep, and even that is pissin in the wind.
4. I'd settle for Jim DeMint, and that ain't a happenin either.
5. If he nominates Condeleeza, i may be joining the NOBP crowd.

[VBRonPaulFan]

Con: I'd never vote for the ticket, I wouldn't even have to think about it. Rmoney is a piece of shit and doesn't deserve to be president of a local PTA, let alone of the United States.

[TheTexan]

1. Mittens would never offer.

You know, if Mittens actually had a mind of his own, and wasn't just a puppet getting his strings pulled, choosing Ron as VP would be a brilliant move for him. It would be an instant win vs Obama.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

Compromise with evil only benefits evil

[TheTexan]

Compromise with evil only benefits evil

It's only compromise... if you compromise. Accepting VP by itself is not compromising imo.

[anaconda]

In this hypothetical impossible scenario, I've given it some thought, and I'd be 100% for it. You remember how morbidly afraid people were of Ron Paul but claimed to like him on domestic issues? If he were just a heartbeat from the presidency, and Republicans were basically forced to support him as Romney's VP choice, it'd throw their cognitive dissonance into a frenzy. It would be fucking glorious.

Would be high entertainment to see the Vice President ripping to shreds the President's every move on a daily basis on CNN, Fox, & MSNBC. :D

[ChristianAnarchist]

In this hypothetical impossible scenario, I've given it some thought, and I'd be 100% for it. You remember how morbidly afraid people were of Ron Paul but claimed to like him on domestic issues? If he were just a heartbeat from the presidency, and Republicans were basically forced to support him as Romney's VP choice, it'd throw their cognitive dissonance into a frenzy. It would be fucking glorious.

^ This ^