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realtonygoodwin
07-08-2012, 03:20 PM
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0712/78210.html

It will be nice to have an ally in such a position.

thoughtomator
07-08-2012, 03:24 PM
If only he were an ally. When the moment of truth arrived, Jim DeMint punted.

GeorgiaAvenger
07-08-2012, 03:48 PM
I sure hope so. Some here hate him but I ignore them.

realtonygoodwin
07-08-2012, 05:37 PM
If only he were an ally. When the moment of truth arrived, Jim DeMint punted.

Are you talking about the lack of endorsement in SC?

Regardless, I can only think of one other Senator I would rather have chairing that particular committee.

georgiaboy
07-08-2012, 05:43 PM
directionally correct

Feeding the Abscess
07-08-2012, 05:44 PM
and DeMint emphatically says he’ll be just as uncompromising with a gavel in his hand as he has been in his seven years as a bomb-throwing backbencher.

Since DeMint is touting his record, I'll bring up his record.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance285.html

Brett85
07-08-2012, 08:10 PM
Since DeMint is touting his record, I'll bring up his record.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance285.html

We get it. Jim Demint doesn't want to abolish the entire government, so he's a big government statist.

musicmax
07-08-2012, 08:15 PM
Since DeMint is touting his record, I'll bring up his record.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance285.html

Key quote: "His scores went down when Bush was elected president and the Republicans controlled the Congress. His scores started to go up when the Democrats took over the Congress. And his scores went up even more when Obama was elected president."

Translation: the majority party expands government without hesitation, the minority party feigns protest.

Brett85
07-08-2012, 08:21 PM
Key quote: "His scores went down when Bush was elected president and the Republicans controlled the Congress. His scores started to go up when the Democrats took over the Congress. And his scores went up even more when Obama was elected president."

Translation: the majority party expands government without hesitation, the minority party feigns protest.

I think it's also clear that Demint has become more conservative and even more libertarian over time as well.

LibertyEagle
07-08-2012, 08:56 PM
I sure hope so. Some here hate him but I ignore them.

You really should read the article that Abscess posted. DeMiint's voting record really has been pretty dismal. Maybe he is changing. I don't know. But, in my book, he certainly shouldn't be called a liberty candidate, or anything of the sort. He hasn't earned that. Not yet, anyway.

Brett85
07-08-2012, 08:59 PM
You really should read the article that Abscess posted. DeMiint's voting record really has been pretty dismal. Maybe he is changing. I don't know. But, in my book, he certainly shouldn't be called a liberty candidate, or anything of the sort. He hasn't earned that. Not yet, anyway.

It's been pretty good lately. Shouldn't Senators be praised for improving their voting record over time?

No, he shouldn't be called a liberty candidate. He should just be called our 3rd best Senator.

Keith and stuff
07-08-2012, 09:06 PM
If Rand Paul wants to step down as the leader of the Tea Party in the US Senate, I don't mind if Jim DeMint takes that position. Jim DeMint is the top 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th person in the US Senate. He is an OK person. I don't really have anything against him. Go Jim DeMint!

Feeding the Abscess
07-08-2012, 09:09 PM
It's been pretty good lately. Shouldn't Senators be praised for improving their voting record over time?

No, he shouldn't be called a liberty candidate. He should just be called our 3rd best Senator.

Lindsey Graham's Conservative Index scores have risen in near exact proportions as DeMint's in the same timeframe.

LibertyEagle
07-08-2012, 09:09 PM
It's been pretty good lately. Shouldn't Senators be praised for improving their voting record over time?

No, he shouldn't be called a liberty candidate. He should just be called our 3rd best Senator.

Maybe. I'd have to do some more checking before I could say that.

But, I don't think we can justifiably call him our ally.

AuH20
07-08-2012, 09:10 PM
Lindsey Graham's Conservative Index scores have risen in near exact proportions as DeMint's in the same timeframe.


But Demint never voted for Medicare Part D, TARP, the NDAA and few other critical pieces of legislation. The difference between the two is stark.

Brett85
07-08-2012, 09:12 PM
One of the main criticisms of Demint in the Lew Rockwell article seems to be that Demint supports incrementalism. Obviously, since those guys are anarchists, they don't support any kind of incrementalism. They criticized Demint for supporting Paul Ryan's proposal to change the Medicare program by giving out vouchers. The voucher system would obviously be an improvement over the Medicare system we have now, as it would cut costs and allow seniors to buy health care in the free market. But since Lew Rockwell's crowd believes that Medicare should be abolished over night, they can't support a proposal that would roll back Medicare. Those people are simply unreasonable.

LibertyEagle
07-08-2012, 09:14 PM
I am talking about the voting index put out by The New American.

Brett85
07-08-2012, 09:15 PM
Maybe. I'd have to do some more checking before I could say that.

But, I don't think we can justifiably call him our ally.

He's an ally on fiscal issues, and he's improved on civil liberties and foreign policy issues. He voted against the final version of NDAA, voted for both of Rand's amendments to the Patriot Act, voted for Rand's amendment to officially end the war in Iraq, stated in his book that defense spending should be cut, stated that we should start closing down some foreign military bases, etc.

thoughtomator
07-08-2012, 09:16 PM
But Demint never voted for Medicare Part D, TARP, the NDAA and few other critical pieces of legislation. The difference between the two is stark.

And his reason for voting for the Food Safety Act?


*crickets*

LibertyEagle
07-08-2012, 09:19 PM
He's an ally on fiscal issues, and he's improved on civil liberties and foreign policy issues. He voted against the final version of NDAA, voted for both of Rand's amendments to the Patriot Act, voted for Rand's amendment to officially end the war in Iraq, stated in his book that defense spending should be cut, stated that we should start closing down some foreign military bases, etc.

That's great. I don't consider him an enemy or anything and certainly not a neocon. But, for me, anyway, he's not in the ally category.

Brett85
07-08-2012, 09:24 PM
And his reason for voting for the Food Safety Act?


*crickets*

If you're referring to the Food Safety Modernization Act, Demint voted against that.

AuH20
07-08-2012, 09:29 PM
If you're referring to the Food Safety Modernization Act, Demint voted against that.

Yikes. You crushed those crickets.

kcchiefs6465
07-08-2012, 10:20 PM
I sure hope so. Some here hate him but I ignore them.
I hate him.

ETA: Give me a moment to explain why, as I seem to be a slight minority in this discussion. By morning I will edit. For starters, his republican address five months or so ago. Seemed quite arrogant and contradictory to the message I have come to embrace.

Sullivan*
07-08-2012, 11:17 PM
I think the question that needs to be answered is, would local folks who KNOW about DeMint put time, energy and resources behind a campaign to unseat him? If so, when the hell can I get some people like that up here so we can give Baucus, Rehberg and Tester the banhammer?

angelatc
07-09-2012, 06:40 AM
I think Demint is the quintessential politician, in that he changes direction depending on how the political wind is blowing. As long as the conservative (and not Republican) mindset is in vogue, he'll probably vote that way.

angelatc
07-09-2012, 06:41 AM
I think the question that needs to be answered is, would local folks who KNOW about DeMint put time, energy and resources behind a campaign to unseat him? If so, when the hell can I get some people like that up here so we can give Baucus, Rehberg and Tester the banhammer?

He's already announced he's retiring in the next election, so the liberty movement has had plenty of time to get a candidate ready. Of course, they probably haven't been, but that's a different problem.

Bastiat's The Law
07-09-2012, 06:50 AM
You guys have to stop comparing fallible people to perfection. Not even Ron Paul himself is perfect and he would be the first to admit that. Rank candidates and politicians on the Liberty scale we all have seen here.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89kx4hBrBrE

angelatc
07-09-2012, 06:56 AM
You guys have to stop comparing fallible people to perfection. Not even Ron Paul himself is perfect and he would be the first to admit that. Rank candidates and politicians on the Liberty scale we all have seen here.


http://www.youtubeBrE

I think that's a much better solution. Rank the candidates on a scale, then start weeding out the vulnerable from the bottom. They'll take it upon themselves to start climbing the ranks when they see the liberty scythe headed their way.

Galileo Galilei
07-09-2012, 07:16 AM
Since DeMint is touting his record, I'll bring up his record.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance285.html

DeMint isn't perfect, but he is not a certified nut-job like the lew rockwell crowd. Benedict Arnold Rockwell opposes the US Constitution, opposes our Founding Fathers, and is an enemy of liberty.

thoughtomator
07-09-2012, 07:18 AM
It appears I stand corrected on believing DeMint voted for FSMA... I wonder why I was convinced that he did? Thanks for the correction.

LibertyEagle
07-09-2012, 07:56 AM
I think that's a much better solution. Rank the candidates on a scale, then start weeding out the vulnerable from the bottom. They'll take it upon themselves to start climbing the ranks when they see the liberty scythe headed their way.

That's a good idea.

tbone717
07-09-2012, 08:15 AM
I think that's a much better solution. Rank the candidates on a scale, then start weeding out the vulnerable from the bottom. They'll take it upon themselves to start climbing the ranks when they see the liberty scythe headed their way.

Excellent idea. JBS publishes a scorecard at the end of each session. Please note I am not a huge fan of JBS, but their scorecard is a good format and lists every member of Congress and how they voted on some key bills.

It's a handy tool to have bookmarked. http://www.jbs.org/index.php?option=com_rokdownloads&view=folder&id=131&Itemid=259

Bastiat's The Law
07-09-2012, 09:02 AM
I think that's a much better solution. Rank the candidates on a scale, then start weeding out the vulnerable from the bottom. They'll take it upon themselves to start climbing the ranks when they see the liberty scythe headed their way.
I think that tends to happen naturally does it not? The vast majority of Paul supporters will end up supporting those very best candidates with their time and donations more so than, say a candidate with a poor liberty rating ex: (Liberty Purity: ★☆☆☆☆). Candidates that are stellar and endorsed by the Pauls will always catch our eye and we'll instinctively give them the greater push. The poorly rated candidates might get our votes if they're facing an even more horrendous challenger, but I doubt they'd receive much financial or volunteer backing. The cream will rise to the top, like Thomas Massie did.

LibertyEagle
07-09-2012, 09:04 AM
Excellent idea. JBS publishes a scorecard at the end of each session. Please note I am not a huge fan of JBS, but their scorecard is a good format and lists every member of Congress and how they voted on some key bills.

It's a handy tool to have bookmarked. http://www.jbs.org/index.php?option=com_rokdownloads&view=folder&id=131&Itemid=259

Since you said that, I will say that I AM a huge fan of the JBS. :p :)

Bastiat's The Law
07-09-2012, 09:10 AM
For what its worth I'd rank Demint as follows:

Jim Demint (R) - (Liberty Purity: ★★★☆☆)

By the way we have a slew of Liberty friendly candidates getting their feet wet in politics in South Carolina and Jim Demint's endorsement of these candidates will be vital to help them reach the next level come 2016. In fact, he'll probably have his choice to pick as his heir in the Senate so to speak. Let's make sure its a Liberty candidate! :)

tbone717
07-09-2012, 09:19 AM
For what its worth I'd rank Demint as follows:

Jim Demint (R) - (Liberty Purity: ★★★☆☆)

By the way we have a slew of Liberty friendly candidates getting their feet wet in politics in South Carolina and Jim Demint's endorsement of these candidates will be vital to help them reach the next level come 2016. In fact, he'll probably have his choice to pick as his heir in the Senate so to speak. Let's make sure its a Liberty candidate! :)

Is Tom Davis running for Graham's seat or is he waiting for DeMint's?

Brett85
07-09-2012, 09:38 AM
Excellent idea. JBS publishes a scorecard at the end of each session. Please note I am not a huge fan of JBS, but their scorecard is a good format and lists every member of Congress and how they voted on some key bills.

It's a handy tool to have bookmarked. http://www.jbs.org/index.php?option=com_rokdownloads&view=folder&id=131&Itemid=259

I like JBS, but I don't agree with them penalizing Republicans who vote in favor of free trade deals. I understand that these trade deals aren't what we ultimately want in terms of actual free trade, but I still think the conservative and libertarian position is to always vote in favor of lower tariffs. The JBS takes the side of big government protectionists like Sherrod Brown and Bernie Sanders on that issue.

realtonygoodwin
07-09-2012, 10:33 AM
The JBS Freedom Index is certainly a good place to start. We also shouldn't only look at their most recent scores, but their scores over a lifetime. I think the more recent scores should be weighted higher, and also perhaps develop trendlines to see what direction they are heading, toward or away from a more liberty oriented standpoint.

Is there a similar ranking put out by Cato or any other liberty oriented group?

Bastiat's The Law
07-09-2012, 11:09 AM
Is Tom Davis running for Graham's seat or is he waiting for DeMint's?
I expect him to wait for Demint since he's stepping down after this term. Taking on Graham would be the harder road to sow, but we certainly should look to run Liberty candidates in the future against him.

Bastiat's The Law
07-09-2012, 11:12 AM
The JBS Freedom Index is certainly a good place to start. We also shouldn't only look at their most recent scores, but their scores over a lifetime. I think the more recent scores should be weighted higher, and also perhaps develop trendlines to see what direction they are heading, toward or away from a more liberty oriented standpoint.

Is there a similar ranking put out by Cato or any other liberty oriented group?
For most of these candidates they don't have any record at all. JBS and Cato might have a place for elected politicians, but its nice having a ranking/vetted system in place for these Liberty upstarts we know little about.

realtonygoodwin
07-09-2012, 11:29 AM
I think once we find an elected official that needs to be replaced in a winnable race, we need to seek a candidate there and support them. But the first priority shouldn't be finding the replacement, but identifying who needs to be replaced.