Is Wal-Mart Destroying America? 20 Facts About Wal-Mart That Will Absolutely Shock You

[donnay]

Is Wal-Mart Destroying America? 20 Facts About Wal-Mart That Will Absolutely Shock You

Michael Snyder
The Economic Collapse (http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/is-wal-mart-destroying-america-20-facts-about-wal-mart-that-will-absolutely-shock-you)
Wednesday, July 4, 2012

America absolutely loves Wal-Mart. 100 million customers visit Wal-Mart every single week in this country. But is Wal-Mart good for America? That is a question that most people never stop and ask. Most of us love shopping in big, clean stores that are packed with super cheap merchandise, but the truth is that Wal-Mart is destroying America in a lot of ways. As you will see below, Wal-Mart has destroyed tens of thousands of small businesses and countless manufacturing jobs over the past couple of decades. Wal-Mart has become a gigantic retail behemoth that sells five times more stuff than any other retailer in the United States. Unfortunately, about 85 percent of all the stuff sold at Wal-Mart is made overseas. What that is costing the U.S. economy in terms of lost jobs and lost revenue is incalculable. But Wal-Mart is a perfect example of where our economic system is headed. Our economy is becoming completely and totally dominated by highly centralized monolithic predator corporations that ruthlessly crush all competition and that will stoop to just about anything in order to cut costs. In the future, will we all be working for gigantic communal entities that funnel all of the wealth and economic rewards to a very tiny elite? That sounds very much like how communist China works, and red-blooded Americans should want no part of that. America is supposed to be about free enterprise and competition and working together to build up this country, and Wal-Mart is destroying all of that.

The following are 20 facts about Wal-Mart that will absolutely shock you….

#1 The average U.S. family now spends more than $4000 a year at Wal-Mart.

#2 In 2010, Wal-Mart had revenues of 421 billion dollars. That amount was greater than the GDP of 170 different countries including Norway, Venezuela and the United Arab Emirates.

#3 If Wal-Mart was a nation, it would have the 23rd largest GDP in the world.

#4 Wal-Mart now sells more groceries than anyone else in America does. In the United States today, one out of every four grocery dollars is spent at Wal-Mart.

#5 Amazingly, 100 million customers shop at Wal-Mart every single week.

#6 Wal-Mart has opened more than 1,100 “supercenters” since 2005 alone.

#7 Today, Wal-Mart has more than 2 million employees.

#8 If Wal-Mart was an army, it would be the second largest military on the planet behind China.

#9 Wal-Mart is the largest employer in 25 different U.S. states.

#10 According to the Economic Policy Institute, trade between Wal-Mart and China resulted in the loss of 133,000 manufacturing jobs in the United States between 2001 and 2006.

#11 The CEO of Wal-Mart makes more in a single hour than a full-time Wal-Mart associate makes in an entire year.

#12 Tens of thousands of Wal-Mart employees and their children are enrolled in Medicaid and are dependent on the government for healthcare.

#13 Between 2001 and 2007, the value of products that Wal-Mart imported from China grew from $9 billion to $27 billion.

#14 Sadly, about 85 percent of all the products sold at Wal-Mart are made outside of the United States.

#15 It is being reported that about 80 percent of all Wal-Mart suppliers are in China at this point.

#16 Amazingly, 96 percent of all Americans now live within 20 miles of a Wal-Mart.

#17 The number of “independent retailers” in the United States declined by 60,000 between 1992 and 2007.

#18 According to the Center for Responsive Politics, Wal-Mart spent 7.8 million dollars on political lobbying during 2011. That number does not even include campaign contributions.

#19 Today, Wal-Mart has five times the sales of the second largest U.S. retailer (Costco).

#20 The combined net worth of six members of the Walton family is roughly equal to the combined net worth of the poorest 30 percent of all Americans.

All over the country, independent retailers are going out of business because they cannot compete with Wal-Mart and their super cheap Chinese products. Often communities will give Wal-Mart huge tax breaks just to move in to their areas. But what many communities don’t take into account is that the introduction of a Wal-Mart is often absolutely devastating to small businesses….

A study of small and rural towns in Iowa showed lost sales for local businesses ranging from -17.2% in small towns to -61.4% in rural areas, amounting to a total dollar loss of $2.46 BILLION over a 13-year period.

When we buy stuff made by people working for slave labor wages in China, we destroy good paying American jobs and we make America poorer. This is a point that I have tried to make over and over.

Wal-Mart often tells one thing to the public and then does another thing in private. Sadly, the truth is that Wal-Mart does not care about U.S. manufacturing jobs. Wal-Mart just wants to get products as cheaply as they possibly can, and most of the time that means getting them from China.

Just check out this first-hand testimony from an 81-year-old retired apparel manufacturer….

I was president of the Southwestern Apparel Manufacturers Association. There was a meeting sometime between 1985 and 1990. Walmart had contacted our organization and asked if they could meet with us at our beautiful Apparel Mart we had here in Dallas, which has now been razed, because all the independent merchants don’t exist that used to come to it. Two people from Walmart came down and they said they were going to be sourcing goods from overseas and we would have to meet those prices for consumer products and to get ready for it—we are going to be sourcing the world. Walmart was the only company that came out and said this.

It was sort of shocking: I was selling them some merchandise at the time. On the back of their trucks it was saying “Bring it Back to America!” They had the big “keep it in America” program going at that time on the big signs in the stores. Meanwhile when I reminded the buyer of that, she told me, “that is just for domestic consumption, we’re going to buy at the cheapest we can anywhere on earth.”

As I have written about previously, the United States has lost more than 56,000 manufacturing facilities since 2001.

We are losing millions of good jobs that cannot be replaced. If you can believe it, the United States has actually lost an average of about 50,000 manufacturing jobs a month since China joined the World Trade Organization in 2001.

Last year, the U.S. trade deficit with China was the biggest trade deficit that one nation has had with another nation in the history of the world, and Wal-Mart played a huge role in that.

In fact, Wal-Mart has actually been forcing some U.S. manufacturers to pack up and move overseas. The following is from a recent article by Amy Traub….

Walmart’s market power is so immense that the even the largest suppliers must comply with its demands for lower and lower prices because they cannot afford to have their goods taken off its shelves. Companies that used to manufacture products in the United States, from Levi’s jeans to lock maker Master Lock, were pressured to shut their U.S. factories and moved manufacturing abroad to meet Walmart’s demand for low prices.

Unfortunately, the vast wealth that Wal-Mart is sucking out of our communities is not put back into our communities. The profits are funneled out to Wal-Mart executives and shareholders. We may enjoy the low prices, but very little of the money that we give to Wal-Mart gets recycled in our local areas.

In the old days, you could actually support a family selling electronics or running a general store. But you can’t support a family working at Wal-Mart. The vast majority of the jobs that Wal-Mart creates are very low paying. Large numbers of Wal-Mart employees are actually on welfare, and this is part of the reason why we have seen such an explosion in the number of the working poor in America.

At this point, more than 40 percent of all jobs in America are low wage jobs and the middle class is rapidly disappearing.

If we do not support American jobs and American manufacturers they will continue to go away and the welfare rolls in this country will continue to explode.

There is not going to be any prosperity in this country without jobs. Unfortunately, most Americans simply do not understand how good jobs are being systematically destroyed in America every single day.

The path that America is headed on today is only going to end in complete and total disaster. We are being transformed from a wealthy nation into a poor nation. In the end, we will be dominated by a very tiny elite and everyone else will either be among the working poor or will be totally dependent on the government.

Our system is supposed to be about open, honest competition. But that is not what Wal-Mart is about. Wal-Mart is about crushing small businesses and manufacturers here in America and getting us all to buy their super cheap Chinese-made goods.

Shame on Wal-Mart. They are an un-American disgrace.

So what do all of you think about Wal-Mart? Please feel free to post a comment with your thoughts below….

[donnay]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWOCVs03jtE

[oyarde]

I try not to use it , mostly due to #12,13,14 &17 on the list . I have found that between my two cheaper local grocers ( where I buy meat , I do not harvest ) , The Dollar Store ( where I get household clening , personal hygene type stuff ) , my local Farm Store ( oil , bird seed , ammo )etc , and the local Big Box Hardware store ( sales ) , I can get anything sold at Wal Mart as cheap or cheaper , better quality , better service , easier access , rain checks etc etc

[BucksforPaul]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvxNgdFeWqM&feature=youtu.be

[Cutlerzzz]

Walmart is so awesome. I mean, they're revenue is greater than most countries GDP, and the average American family spends 8% of their income there a year. What a success story.

[Texan4Life]

lol didnt expect to find WM hate here... goods are gonna be made in china no matter who buys them. If it was a mom and pop store the only difference is you would pay more for the same chinese stuff. This article is so full of crap I just don't feel like going through it all with responses.

walmart is a benefit to the US economy.

It is .gov policy that is the enemy.

[GunnyFreedom]

If I had to weigh in on this, I'd say that WalMart isn't destroying America, rather they are a symptom of the apathy and the monetary and intellectual poverty that is in fact what's destroying America.

It's not the stuffy head, runny nose and the sneezing that kill a million Americans every year, it's the influenza virus. WalMart is just the stuffy head, runny nose and the sneezing.

[GunnyFreedom]

lol didnt expect to find WM hate here... goods are gonna be made in china no matter who buys them. If it was a mom and pop store the only difference is you would pay more for the same chinese stuff. This article is so full of crap I just don't feel like going through it all with responses.

walmart is a benefit to the US economy.

It is .gov policy that is the enemy.

Emphasis added.

You don't actually believe that do you?

ETA - specifically, Mom and Pop stores don't generally have the volume or the turnover to make Chinese imports worthwhile once you calculate shipping cost and time. By and large, actual Mom and Pop stores do tend a lot more towards "Made in the USA" goods because at the volume they turn over it's legitimately cheaper for them to buy from those suppliers, or the price point is so close that they go with American manufactured goods figuring that the loyalty factor will compensate for the 0.1% difference in cost.

Also, a lot of times the same model of the same brand when sold at WalMart vs a traditional retailer is a different product. I learned this first hand when doing research to get a brand that I was VP of the company for into WalMart. This is particularly true of lawn mowers yard tractors and such. WalMart demands so much high production at so much low pricing that companies that get shelfspace will often turn up a whole new factory or a new production line to produce equipment for sale at WalMart only, which factory or line gets equipped with much cheaper component parts, more less expensive automation leads to a poorer fit and finish, the list goes on.

I can't recall the brand offhand, (was it John Deere? Honestly don't remember) but I know that more than one gas-powered yard equipment manufacturer actually pulled out of WalMart because the necessity of having a "WalMart line" of their same products more cheaply manufactured was damaging their reputation.

I mean, I'm decidedly not a WalMart hater, even though I wonder if its economic benefit locally and nationally is often overstated by it's supporters, just as it's damage is overstated by it's detractors.

The statement I take issue with is that you get the exact same Chinese stuff at a Mom & Pop as you do at a WalMart. As someone who has seen the supply side personally and even worked to get a product that we manufactured bought by WalMart, that statement is simply not so.

[Zatch]

...

[Zatch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KrjQqIXHdU

Full episode here:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-o1fj1rX7A


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSfSB51gcwo


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_LN50mJGSo


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaYZ9uMXHRM

[Zatch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KrjQqIXHdU

Full episode here:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-o1fj1rX7A


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSfSB51gcwo


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_LN50mJGSo


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaYZ9uMXHRM

[Zatch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KrjQqIXHdU

Full episode here:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-o1fj1rX7A


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSfSB51gcwo


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_LN50mJGSo


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaYZ9uMXHRM

[chudrockz]

I absolutely, positively ADORE Wal Mart. Wal Mart is the single biggest reason why a normal, middle class couple like my wife and I, can have a standard of living probably at least 25% greater than we could in its absence.

And as far as the price thing goes, YES, Wal Mart is waaaaaaaay cheaper in my personal experience than "mom and pop shops". WAY cheaper.

[donnay]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvxNgdFeWqM&feature=youtu.be

"You must spread some reputation around before giving it to BucksforPaul again."

ROFLMAO! My morning coffee is all over the monitor now! That was a great start for my morning!!

[donnay]

lol didnt expect to find WM hate here... goods are gonna be made in china no matter who buys them. If it was a mom and pop store the only difference is you would pay more for the same chinese stuff. This article is so full of crap I just don't feel like going through it all with responses.

walmart is a benefit to the US economy.

It is .gov policy that is the enemy.

Just remember that when Wal-Marx is the only place to buy your Chinese-made, Indonesia-made, Taiwan-made, got-to-have junk.

Wal-Marx works with the government, that is what most of the Libertarians just don't get. The monopoly is made, because government protects them.

Flashback:

Wal-Mart, DoD clarify RFID plans: suppliers begin race to present plans for RFID implementation

Wal-Mart Stores Inc. will take a phased approach to rolling out RFID technology in its supply chain. At meetings with suppliers and technology vendors in Bentonville, Ark., in November, the retailer said it planned to start using RFID in its Texas facilities first.

Wal-Mart's top 100 suppliers must present implementation plans by February 2004.

Shortly after the Wal-Mart meetings, the Department of Defense held its first RFID conference for suppliers and technology vendors, where it further outlined its plans for implementing RFID with its 43,000 suppliers. Wal-Mart is working closely with DoD to develop its RFID strategies.

"We've made it clear we do intend to implement this technology," said Alan Estevez, assistant undersecretary of defense, supply chain integration. "And we're willing to work with [technology providers] on how best to implement it."

Both Wal-Mart and DoD have indicated they will support the upcoming Electronic Product Code (EPC) Class 1, Version 2 RFID air interface protocol, which had yet to be finalized at press time. EPCglobal, the industry organization managing commercialization of EPC, expected to have the final specification available in the first quarter of 2004.

"Class 1, Version 2 will be a foundation protocol for all passive UHF tags," said Sue Hutchinson, product manager at EPCglobal U.S. "It will support tags from Class 0 to Class 2, all from a single protocol."

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0DIS/is_1_5/ai_112563026/


Hillary Clinton was on the Wal-Marx board of directors for 6 years and it wasn't until her 2008 campaign that it came out, for most people to know about it.

Present day:

Here's a nice little incentive Hillary pushed as secretary of state--meanwhile plenty of Americans are out of work.

Walmart, U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and the Inter-American Development Bank Partner to Change the Lives of Women and Youth


Retailer invests $12 million to improve lives and communities in Latin America and the Caribbean

CARTAGENA, Colombia, April 13, 2012 – U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Walmart announced today an initiative that will empower up to 55,000 women in Latin America and the Caribbean to build businesses and take control of their futures. In addition, Walmart will work with the Inter-American Development Bank (IDB) to provide job training and help with job placement for nearly 1 million young people in these regions, at least half of whom will be young women.

“These partnerships will not only change the lives of the women we’ll reach, but also improve the lives of their families and their entire communities,” said Walmart President and CEO Mike Duke, who joined Secretary Clinton at the Sixth Summit of the Americas in Cartagena, Colombia today. “When we launched our Global Women’s Economic Empowerment Initiative last year, we committed to helping women around the world live better. By working with leaders like Secretary Clinton, we’re bringing that mission to life.”

Walmart’s $12 million commitment to Secretary Clinton’s International Fund for Women and Girls, the IDB and other NGOs includes:

The WEAmericas Small Grants Initiative

In partnership with Secretary Clinton’s International Fund for Women and Girls, the Walmart Foundation has pledged $1.5 million to help create the WEAmericas Small Grants Initiative. Over the next two years, the effort will support the dreams of up to 55,000 potential women entrepreneurs in rural and indigenous communities throughout the Americas.

Vital Voices Women Entrepreneur Support

The Walmart Foundation is donating $500,000 to Vital Voices, an NGO committed to unleashing the leadership potential of extraordinary women around the world. The grant will provide long-term support for women hoping to grow small businesses.

The New Employment Opportunities (NEO) Initiative

Walmart will translate and provide its Walmart Brazil Social Retail School curriculum to the IDB’s NEO Initiative. The retailer also committed to continuing its partnership in Brazil with governments and NGOs for the next five years, graduating thousands of new students. Combined, this support is valued at more than $10 million.

The IDB expects its NEO Initiative to empower roughly 1 million young people to take control of their futures over the next 10 years. At least half of those served will be young women.

“As a founding member of our NEO initiative, Walmart is demonstrating a visionary commitment to training youth in our region for 21st century jobs and promoting greater gender balance,’’ said IDB President Luis Alberto Moreno. “We are proud to have Walmart as a partner and hope their example will serve as an inspiration to other companies to join the NEO Initiative.”

Today’s announcement supports key goals under Walmart’s Global Women’s Economic Empowerment Initiative, launched in September 2011. For more information on this initiative, visit www.walmartstores.com/women.

http://www.walmartstores.com/pressroom/news/10869.aspx


So you all go right on out and support Wal-Marx because "always low prices" means they will eventually be the only game in town, and then you will be beholden to them just like government wants you to be. :)

[specsaregood]

Just remember that when Wal-Marx is the only place to buy your Chinese-made, Indonesia-made, Taiwan-made, got-to-have junk.
Wal-Marx works with the government, that is what most of the Libertarians just don't get. The monopoly is made, because government protects them.


The problem is that this article is written from a success is a bad thing perspective which automatically triggers emotions in lefties to like the article and hate walmart; but has the exact opposite effect on more liberty minded folk. Gunny is correct, the article completely misses the point and distracts the reader with the symptoms , not the virus that caused them.

[chudrockz]

That's the horrific claim that is made, but my local Wal Mart has been around for many, many years and there are still tons of other places to shop. Granted, in most of them you can get virtually the same things as at Wal Mart (but with less variety), you just pay 35% more for them. What a bargain!

[soulcyon]

so Whats wrong with Walmart?

[Sola_Fide]

Something about the tone of that article rubbed me the wrong way. But I agree that every penny that WalMart makes through coercive corporatism is evil.

[donnay]

The problem is that this article is written from a success is a bad thing perspective which automatically triggers emotions in lefties to like the article and hate walmart; but has the exact opposite effect on more liberty minded folk. Gunny is correct, the article completely misses the point and distracts the reader with the symptoms , not the virus that caused them.

See I do not call this success-- "Walmart’s market power is so immense that the even the largest suppliers must comply with its demands for lower and lower prices because they cannot afford to have their goods taken off its shelves. Companies that used to manufacture products in the United States, from Levi’s jeans to lock maker Master Lock, were pressured to shut their U.S. factories and moved manufacturing abroad to meet Walmart’s demand for low prices."

So there is no way, a Mom and Pop can even dream to do the same. Consequently, they are left out in the cold, which makes them go bankrupt.

The article also goes on to say, "At this point, more than 40 percent of all jobs in America are low wage jobs and the middle class is rapidly disappearing."

This is eating our sustenance along with government's help. This isn't capitalism it is crony-capitalism, and I do not know why it is hard for people to understand that? A good many of us know what the agenda is; to take this country (economically) and knock it down to third-world status. Consumerism, is one of the 'isms' that is taking this country down even faster, the problem is our economy is so bad that people run to Wal-Marx because they think they can save a buck. In the end, they lose and we all lose.

[specsaregood]

See I do not call this success--

#1-#9 are all a tale of success. You have to get halfway through the list #10 before you get to anything remotely negative.

And wtf is the deal with #8? Does that make any sense? Does walmart have their own tanks and air force?

[GunnyFreedom]

See I do not call this success-- "Walmart’s market power is so immense that the even the largest suppliers must comply with its demands for lower and lower prices because they cannot afford to have their goods taken off its shelves. Companies that used to manufacture products in the United States, from Levi’s jeans to lock maker Master Lock, were pressured to shut their U.S. factories and moved manufacturing abroad to meet Walmart’s demand for low prices."

So there is no way, a Mom and Pop can even dream to do the same. Consequently, they are left out in the cold, which makes them go bankrupt.

The article also goes on to say, "At this point, more than 40 percent of all jobs in America are low wage jobs and the middle class is rapidly disappearing."

This is eating our sustenance along with government's help. This isn't capitalism it is crony-capitalism, and I do not know why it is hard for people to understand that? A good many of us know what the agenda is; to take this country (economically) and knock it down to third-world status. Consumerism, is one of the 'isms' that is taking this country down even faster, the problem is our economy is so bad that people run to Wal-Marx because they think they can save a buck. In the end, they lose and we all lose.

Still just a symptom of the core problem rather than the problem itself.

Congress is so beholden to corporatist special interests it's like they bend themselves over the desk and drop trau and scream "GIMME that biiiiiig money!" You think a giant like WalMart is going to turn and look the other way?

WalMart doesn't have to pressure government to do anything. They probably have 400 Congress-critters lined up on their knees every day applying lip gloss. Of course they are going to take advantage, the shareholders would fire the board for gross incompetence if they didn't.

WalMart is not the problem, it's just the symptom. The problems run much deeper.

[NoOneButPaul]

so Whats wrong with Walmart?

Nothing... people just love finding corporate boogymans.

[fisharmor]

so Whats wrong with Walmart?

It's buried inside of a fortress of box stores, the parking lot is impossible to get in and out of, the lines are always 20-30 people long, they give me shit about IDs and signing things the 2-3 times a year I buy ammo there, they have literally not one single other thing I want to buy that I can't get somewhere else that respects my time, and when I'm leaving I have to contend with three lights to get out to a main thoroughfare which are constantly backed up.

Seriously, if Target sold WWB I would never set foot in the place.

Actually, I get aggravated enough going to Target. Actually, I get aggravated enough going to box stores at all to make it an unpleasant experience for me.
I don't know why the rest of the world flocks to these places. As soon as I set foot in one the animator draws one of those black scribbles over my head.

[GunnyFreedom]

#1-#9 are all a tale of success. You have to get halfway through the list #10 before you get to anything remotely negative.

And wtf is the deal with #8? Does that make any sense? Does walmart have their own tanks and air force?

I am being blatantly disallowed from repping you, signature notwithstanding.

[Contumacious]

[B]Is Wal-Mart Destroying America? 20 Facts About Wal-Mart That Will Absolutely Shock You….

I believe you meant to say that Obama, Pelosi and Benedict Roberts will destroy the nation.

http://i2.walmartimages.com/i/header_wide/walmart_logo_214x54.gif

[GunnyFreedom]

It's buried inside of a fortress of box stores, the parking lot is impossible to get in and out of, the lines are always 20-30 people long, they give me shit about IDs and signing things the 2-3 times a year I buy ammo there, they have literally not one single other thing I want to buy that I can't get somewhere else that respects my time, and when I'm leaving I have to contend with three lights to get out to a main thoroughfare which are constantly backed up.

Seriously, if Target sold WWB I would never set foot in the place.

Actually, I get aggravated enough going to Target. Actually, I get aggravated enough going to box stores at all to make it an unpleasant experience for me.
I don't know why the rest of the world flocks to these places. As soon as I set foot in one the animator draws one of those black scribbles over my head.

White Wheat Bread?

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Wal-Mart destroying America? Shame on me, I thought it was the Military Industrial Complex, the Medical Complex & Guilds, the Banking monopolies and cartels, and the avarice, corruption, and power-engorged Fascists that run up and down the chain of American Government's. Sure, Wal-Mart isn't innocent, but it's not either this rapacious monster that we must be shielded from with such priority you suppose.

Never mind the fact that your OP is laced with protectionist drivel. If China is going to impoverish their people to subsidize our consumption, I'm not going to raise hell considering we have our own pressing issues domestically we must deal with first.

Here, let Robert Murphy school you and AF. :D


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whCqz5JW-AQ

Pay close attention to the parts about 'trade deficits'. :p

[tod evans]

When each of us make the choice to purchase goods from overseas we are consciously supporting the cheapest labor pool.

The USA was built with American labor.

The fallacy that we as a nation can successfully support ourselves with our intellectual superiority and military might is showing itself in spades the last decade.

From a dumb-ass country boy perspective "we" need to make stuff here...All of the arguments back and forth about different views of economics and global market places boils down to the US labor pool must compete for manufacturing dollars with China/India and other third world countries.

It makes sense to me that getting "our government" completely out of business would be a good thing, no more welfare support for wal-mart workers, and no more protectionist foreign policies for out of country manufacturing, if Americans choose to buy foreign made goods then Americans need to deal with the starving labor pool right here at home. Thinking that somehow with enough subsidies ol' Billy-Bob who's only really able to perform assembly line work can elevate himself to the ranks of stock-broker or doctor is nothing more than smoke-n-mirrors.

Fact is there's a good portion of Americans who are only qualified for production/farm labor and service type employment and as things sit they're being paid by all of us to produce nothing but baby's. We have all made these choices and we've gotta figure out how to deal with them.

Many here want the "deals" from cheap labor.... Okay, then realistically we need to deal with the segment of society that has no work because of those "deals"..... Wars aren't the only thing breaking our economy, we need to get back to making "stuff" here and if that means 30-40% of our population living in squalor so as to provide competitive labor without government subsidies at least we could see the honest effect of government and business as it is.

We're broke, been printing phony money for decades and it's all going to sort itself out whether or not we like it... I'm worried for my son.

[donnay]

Soon we will have to rename our country--The United Wal-Marx of America. They are in every state, town and city across the country.

[chudrockz]

So we have a company, Wal Mart, which has imo done more good for people in the manner of raising their standard of living and comfort, than any other entity EVER in the history of the planet, and supposed lovers of freedom want to light torches and grab pitchforks?

Color me ultra confused.

[tod evans]

So we have a company, Wal Mart, which has imo done more good for people in the manner of raising their standard of living and comfort, than any other entity EVER in the history of the planet, and supposed lovers of freedom want to light torches and grab pitchforks?

Color me ultra confused.

Not I.

I'm for getting "the government" out of business, the wal-marts and general motors, banks etc. would all get sorted out soon enough.

Wal-mart isn't the problem they just figured out how to profit from the problem.

[donnay]

So we have a company, Wal Mart, which has imo done more good for people in the manner of raising their standard of living and comfort, than any other entity EVER in the history of the planet, and supposed lovers of freedom want to light torches and grab pitchforks?

Color me ultra confused.

Raise the standard of living? Are you insane? Have you seen those Wal-Marx pictures of the customers? Those pictures are systemic as to why so many foreigners sit back and call us a nation of lazy slobs. Not to mention, Carnivals have less freak show attractions! Standard of living? :eek:

http://media.peopleofwalmart.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/3475.jpg

http://media.peopleofwalmart.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/3274.jpg

http://media.peopleofwalmart.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/3009.jpg

http://media.peopleofwalmart.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/3249.jpg

You can't make this stuff up! Oh No. American is comedy central, and the ones laughing are the ones who are going to put you in the poor house and take everything you have. What will you think of the standard of living then? Worth living?

[tfurrh]

So we have a company, Wal Mart, which has imo done more good for people in the manner of raising their standard of living and comfort.....Color me ultra confused.

Color ME ultra confused.

http://www.corbisimages.com/images/Corbis-42-20042108.jpg?size=67&uid=30d07dbd-635e-4fb2-bd02-8f3afbd0c017

http://cdn1.lostateminor.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/people-of-walmart5.jpg

[PaulConventionWV]

Is Wal-Mart Destroying America? 20 Facts About Wal-Mart That Will Absolutely Shock You

Michael Snyder
The Economic Collapse (http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/is-wal-mart-destroying-america-20-facts-about-wal-mart-that-will-absolutely-shock-you)
Wednesday, July 4, 2012

America absolutely loves Wal-Mart. 100 million customers visit Wal-Mart every single week in this country. But is Wal-Mart good for America? That is a question that most people never stop and ask. Most of us love shopping in big, clean stores that are packed with super cheap merchandise, but the truth is that Wal-Mart is destroying America in a lot of ways. As you will see below, Wal-Mart has destroyed tens of thousands of small businesses and countless manufacturing jobs over the past couple of decades. Wal-Mart has become a gigantic retail behemoth that sells five times more stuff than any other retailer in the United States. Unfortunately, about 85 percent of all the stuff sold at Wal-Mart is made overseas. What that is costing the U.S. economy in terms of lost jobs and lost revenue is incalculable. But Wal-Mart is a perfect example of where our economic system is headed. Our economy is becoming completely and totally dominated by highly centralized monolithic predator corporations that ruthlessly crush all competition and that will stoop to just about anything in order to cut costs. In the future, will we all be working for gigantic communal entities that funnel all of the wealth and economic rewards to a very tiny elite? That sounds very much like how communist China works, and red-blooded Americans should want no part of that. America is supposed to be about free enterprise and competition and working together to build up this country, and Wal-Mart is destroying all of that.

The following are 20 facts about Wal-Mart that will absolutely shock you….

#1 The average U.S. family now spends more than $4000 a year at Wal-Mart.

#2 In 2010, Wal-Mart had revenues of 421 billion dollars. That amount was greater than the GDP of 170 different countries including Norway, Venezuela and the United Arab Emirates.

#3 If Wal-Mart was a nation, it would have the 23rd largest GDP in the world.

#4 Wal-Mart now sells more groceries than anyone else in America does. In the United States today, one out of every four grocery dollars is spent at Wal-Mart.

#5 Amazingly, 100 million customers shop at Wal-Mart every single week.

#6 Wal-Mart has opened more than 1,100 “supercenters” since 2005 alone.

#7 Today, Wal-Mart has more than 2 million employees.

#8 If Wal-Mart was an army, it would be the second largest military on the planet behind China.

#9 Wal-Mart is the largest employer in 25 different U.S. states.

#10 According to the Economic Policy Institute, trade between Wal-Mart and China resulted in the loss of 133,000 manufacturing jobs in the United States between 2001 and 2006.

#11 The CEO of Wal-Mart makes more in a single hour than a full-time Wal-Mart associate makes in an entire year.

#12 Tens of thousands of Wal-Mart employees and their children are enrolled in Medicaid and are dependent on the government for healthcare.

#13 Between 2001 and 2007, the value of products that Wal-Mart imported from China grew from $9 billion to $27 billion.

#14 Sadly, about 85 percent of all the products sold at Wal-Mart are made outside of the United States.

#15 It is being reported that about 80 percent of all Wal-Mart suppliers are in China at this point.

#16 Amazingly, 96 percent of all Americans now live within 20 miles of a Wal-Mart.

#17 The number of “independent retailers” in the United States declined by 60,000 between 1992 and 2007.

#18 According to the Center for Responsive Politics, Wal-Mart spent 7.8 million dollars on political lobbying during 2011. That number does not even include campaign contributions.

#19 Today, Wal-Mart has five times the sales of the second largest U.S. retailer (Costco).

#20 The combined net worth of six members of the Walton family is roughly equal to the combined net worth of the poorest 30 percent of all Americans.

All over the country, independent retailers are going out of business because they cannot compete with Wal-Mart and their super cheap Chinese products. Often communities will give Wal-Mart huge tax breaks just to move in to their areas. But what many communities don’t take into account is that the introduction of a Wal-Mart is often absolutely devastating to small businesses….

A study of small and rural towns in Iowa showed lost sales for local businesses ranging from -17.2% in small towns to -61.4% in rural areas, amounting to a total dollar loss of $2.46 BILLION over a 13-year period.

When we buy stuff made by people working for slave labor wages in China, we destroy good paying American jobs and we make America poorer. This is a point that I have tried to make over and over.

Wal-Mart often tells one thing to the public and then does another thing in private. Sadly, the truth is that Wal-Mart does not care about U.S. manufacturing jobs. Wal-Mart just wants to get products as cheaply as they possibly can, and most of the time that means getting them from China.

Just check out this first-hand testimony from an 81-year-old retired apparel manufacturer….

I was president of the Southwestern Apparel Manufacturers Association. There was a meeting sometime between 1985 and 1990. Walmart had contacted our organization and asked if they could meet with us at our beautiful Apparel Mart we had here in Dallas, which has now been razed, because all the independent merchants don’t exist that used to come to it. Two people from Walmart came down and they said they were going to be sourcing goods from overseas and we would have to meet those prices for consumer products and to get ready for it—we are going to be sourcing the world. Walmart was the only company that came out and said this.

It was sort of shocking: I was selling them some merchandise at the time. On the back of their trucks it was saying “Bring it Back to America!” They had the big “keep it in America” program going at that time on the big signs in the stores. Meanwhile when I reminded the buyer of that, she told me, “that is just for domestic consumption, we’re going to buy at the cheapest we can anywhere on earth.”

As I have written about previously, the United States has lost more than 56,000 manufacturing facilities since 2001.

We are losing millions of good jobs that cannot be replaced. If you can believe it, the United States has actually lost an average of about 50,000 manufacturing jobs a month since China joined the World Trade Organization in 2001.

Last year, the U.S. trade deficit with China was the biggest trade deficit that one nation has had with another nation in the history of the world, and Wal-Mart played a huge role in that.

In fact, Wal-Mart has actually been forcing some U.S. manufacturers to pack up and move overseas. The following is from a recent article by Amy Traub….

Walmart’s market power is so immense that the even the largest suppliers must comply with its demands for lower and lower prices because they cannot afford to have their goods taken off its shelves. Companies that used to manufacture products in the United States, from Levi’s jeans to lock maker Master Lock, were pressured to shut their U.S. factories and moved manufacturing abroad to meet Walmart’s demand for low prices.

Unfortunately, the vast wealth that Wal-Mart is sucking out of our communities is not put back into our communities. The profits are funneled out to Wal-Mart executives and shareholders. We may enjoy the low prices, but very little of the money that we give to Wal-Mart gets recycled in our local areas.

In the old days, you could actually support a family selling electronics or running a general store. But you can’t support a family working at Wal-Mart. The vast majority of the jobs that Wal-Mart creates are very low paying. Large numbers of Wal-Mart employees are actually on welfare, and this is part of the reason why we have seen such an explosion in the number of the working poor in America.

At this point, more than 40 percent of all jobs in America are low wage jobs and the middle class is rapidly disappearing.

If we do not support American jobs and American manufacturers they will continue to go away and the welfare rolls in this country will continue to explode.

There is not going to be any prosperity in this country without jobs. Unfortunately, most Americans simply do not understand how good jobs are being systematically destroyed in America every single day.

The path that America is headed on today is only going to end in complete and total disaster. We are being transformed from a wealthy nation into a poor nation. In the end, we will be dominated by a very tiny elite and everyone else will either be among the working poor or will be totally dependent on the government.

Our system is supposed to be about open, honest competition. But that is not what Wal-Mart is about. Wal-Mart is about crushing small businesses and manufacturers here in America and getting us all to buy their super cheap Chinese-made goods.

Shame on Wal-Mart. They are an un-American disgrace.

So what do all of you think about Wal-Mart? Please feel free to post a comment with your thoughts below….

That whole post sounded like a Mitt Romney speech.

[chudrockz]

So, if I get the hate right, the biggest gripe of at least one poster against Wal Mart is that, out of one hundred million weekly customers, 1% of them are obese and .0005% of them are freaks, Wal Mart is evil and out to destroy humanity.

Got it.

[tfurrh]

So, if I get the hate right, the biggest gripe of at least one poster against Wal Mart is that, out of one hundred million weekly customers, 1% of them are obese and .0005% of them are freaks, Wal Mart is evil and out to destroy humanity.

Got it.

I don't believe you do....

[specsaregood]

So, if I get the hate right, the biggest gripe of at least one poster against Wal Mart is that, out of one hundred million weekly customers, 1% of them are obese and .0005% of them are freaks, Wal Mart is evil and out to destroy humanity.

Got it.

I'm not gonna hate on walmart but if you think those % are even remotely close to accurate, I have to question if you have ever been to a walmart or are possibly blind?

[chudrockz]

I go to Wal Mart almost daily. I'm a homeowner, and as such can scarcely afford to shop elsewhere.

I got our grill at Wal Mart and we ate like kings yesterday with meat purchased at Wal Mart.

Don't for the life of me get all this hate for something which has done so much good.

[PaulConventionWV]

Something about the tone of that article rubbed me the wrong way. But I agree that every penny that WalMart makes through coercive corporatism is evil.

I don't think it was the tone, I think it was the language. It was horrendous. The whole article acted like having a lot of employees and generating a lot of revenue is a bad thing, and that's virtually all it focused on. The wording was generic and lathered in bias. There was no recognition of the fact that Wal Mart offers good services and good products. If this was a libertarian article in any sense of the word, all of the "Wal Mart makes SO much money" crap would be completely left out.

[tfurrh]

Has anyone seen the Jib-Jab short, Big Box Mart?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKv6RcXa2UI

[donnay]

I go to Wal Mart almost daily. I'm a homeowner, and as such can scarcely afford to shop elsewhere.

I got our grill at Wal Mart and we ate like kings yesterday with meat purchased at Wal Mart.

Don't for the life of me get all this hate for something which has done so much good.


http://images.wikia.com/simpsons/images/a/a9/Treehouse-of-horror-v1.png

:p

[chudrockz]

http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/incredible-stuff.html

[chudrockz]

http://images.wikia.com/simpsons/images/a/a9/Treehouse-of-horror-v1.png

:p

Meh. We actually ate two kinds of brats, steaks, burgers, chicken skewers, and parmesan crusted pork tenderloin.

But I guess people were better off prior to Wal Mart when only the super rich could eat like that.

[donnay]

I don't think it was the tone, I think it was the language. It was horrendous. The whole article acted like having a lot of employees and generating a lot of revenue is a bad thing, and that's virtually all it focused on. The wording was generic and lathered in bias. There was no recognition of the fact that Wal Mart offers good services and good products. If this was a libertarian article in any sense of the word, all of the "Wal Mart makes SO much money" crap would be completely left out.

Having a lot of employees doesn't necessarily mean a good thing. The government has a lot of employees, just sayin'.

[chudrockz]

Having a lot of employees doesn't necessarily mean a good thing. The government has a lot of employees, just sayin'.

Wal Mart has no guns, and forces NO ONE to aquire things therein.

[VoluntaryAmerican]

I bought two boxes of condoms at Walmart for $6 a piece. The same box is $15 a piece at my local pharmacy CVS.

Needless to say, those two boxes for the price of one at another store made me happy and will make me happy - hardly evil.

[tod evans]

I go to Wal Mart almost daily. I'm a homeowner, and as such can scarcely afford to shop elsewhere.

I got our grill at Wal Mart and we ate like kings yesterday with meat purchased at Wal Mart.

Don't for the life of me get all this hate for something which has done so much good.

And when your job is "outsourced" rest assured Wal-Mart will have an opening.

Get government out of the mix and there's a good chance a hoard of unemployed starving displaced workers would have taken your kings feast to feed their families.

Wal-Mart isn't the bad-guy, they're smart, showing more and more profit with every job that leaves the country.

Our government is the bad-guy supporting those who are not working when we're broke.

Take away welfare/medicare/section 8 housing and food-stamps........Let's see how well the Wal-Mart business model does.

[Cowlesy]

You know why I cannot get upset at all about WalMart/WalMarx/The Chinese Embassy, is because you have a choice to not go there. There is no compulsory law that says you must shop at WalMart. Now the finger-wagger is going to retort with, "But you're forced into it because it causes all the Mom/Pop shops to shutdown" but speaking from my experience living around at least four WalMarts in my lifetime, there *still* are other places to go shop. In the rural town in which I grew up that is a shell of its former self as all the heavy industry shutdown, there are still two alternative larger grocery stores, and lots of small shops for other goods likes clothes, Tractor Supply for all your lawn/garden stuff, even a heavy-discount grocer, a dollar general for cheap stuff.

So, all I see Walmart giving you, is another choice. You can go there and get everything you want, or you can make a choice, and hit up two to three smaller stores.

If people would reduce the clutter in their lives and stop buying every piece of useless plastic crap glow-in-the-dark can opener, clip-on-to-your-lawn-chair beer bottle holster, tiki torch, lawn gnome piece of junk, there'd simply be less of this stuff out there.

But at least you have a choice to buy all that junk. If you can't control your own choices, don't burden the rest of us with the angst of your decisions.

Edit: My post isn't directed toward anyone specifically, just my sweepingly generalized facepalm at society writ large.

[seraphson]

If I had to weigh in on this, I'd say that WalMart isn't destroying America, rather they are a symptom of the apathy and the monetary and intellectual poverty that is in fact what's destroying America.

It's not the stuffy head, runny nose and the sneezing that kill a million Americans every year, it's the influenza virus. WalMart is just the stuffy head, runny nose and the sneezing.

I believe this is a very good point. I believe if we had an actual sound currency and a truly free market system (I know, broken record) then perhaps China wouldn't be the black hole of federal reserve notes and wouldn't be the top producer of so many low quality/cheap products. Of course as we all know the tides are turning and the Fed itself is becoming (or is?) the largest purchaser of US debt. What can I say to that and where will it lead? Well. All the Americans will have their wish of not having everything made in China anymore come true. Let's just hope when that does happen we will then finally go back to sound money.

[Henry Rogue]

Is Wal-Mart Destroying America? 20 Facts About Wal-Mart That Will Absolutely Shock You

Michael Snyder
The Economic Collapse (http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/is-wal-mart-destroying-america-20-facts-about-wal-mart-that-will-absolutely-shock-you)
Wednesday, July 4, 2012

America absolutely loves Wal-Mart. 100 million customers visit Wal-Mart every single week in this country. But is Wal-Mart good for America? That is a question that most people never stop and ask. Most of us love shopping in big, clean stores that are packed with super cheap merchandise, but the truth is that Wal-Mart is destroying America in a lot of ways. As you will see below, Wal-Mart has destroyed tens of thousands of small businesses and countless manufacturing jobs over the past couple of decades. Wal-Mart has become a gigantic retail behemoth that sells five times more stuff than any other retailer in the United States. Unfortunately, about 85 percent of all the stuff sold at Wal-Mart is made overseas. What that is costing the U.S. economy in terms of lost jobs and lost revenue is incalculable. But Wal-Mart is a perfect example of where our economic system is headed. Our economy is becoming completely and totally dominated by highly centralized monolithic predator corporations that ruthlessly crush all competition and that will stoop to just about anything in order to cut costs. In the future, will we all be working for gigantic communal entities that funnel all of the wealth and economic rewards to a very tiny elite? That sounds very much like how communist China works, and red-blooded Americans should want no part of that. America is supposed to be about free enterprise and competition and working together to build up this country, and Wal-Mart is destroying all of that.

The following are 20 facts about Wal-Mart that will absolutely shock you….

#1 The average U.S. family now spends more than $4000 a year at Wal-Mart.

#2 In 2010, Wal-Mart had revenues of 421 billion dollars. That amount was greater than the GDP of 170 different countries including Norway, Venezuela and the United Arab Emirates.

#3 If Wal-Mart was a nation, it would have the 23rd largest GDP in the world.

#4 Wal-Mart now sells more groceries than anyone else in America does. In the United States today, one out of every four grocery dollars is spent at Wal-Mart.

#5 Amazingly, 100 million customers shop at Wal-Mart every single week.

#6 Wal-Mart has opened more than 1,100 “supercenters” since 2005 alone.

#7 Today, Wal-Mart has more than 2 million employees.

#8 If Wal-Mart was an army, it would be the second largest military on the planet behind China.

#9 Wal-Mart is the largest employer in 25 different U.S. states.

#10 According to the Economic Policy Institute, trade between Wal-Mart and China resulted in the loss of 133,000 manufacturing jobs in the United States between 2001 and 2006.

#11 The CEO of Wal-Mart makes more in a single hour than a full-time Wal-Mart associate makes in an entire year.

#12 Tens of thousands of Wal-Mart employees and their children are enrolled in Medicaid and are dependent on the government for healthcare.

#13 Between 2001 and 2007, the value of products that Wal-Mart imported from China grew from $9 billion to $27 billion.

#14 Sadly, about 85 percent of all the products sold at Wal-Mart are made outside of the United States.

#15 It is being reported that about 80 percent of all Wal-Mart suppliers are in China at this point.

#16 Amazingly, 96 percent of all Americans now live within 20 miles of a Wal-Mart.

#17 The number of “independent retailers” in the United States declined by 60,000 between 1992 and 2007.

#18 According to the Center for Responsive Politics, Wal-Mart spent 7.8 million dollars on political lobbying during 2011. That number does not even include campaign contributions.

#19 Today, Wal-Mart has five times the sales of the second largest U.S. retailer (Costco).

#20 The combined net worth of six members of the Walton family is roughly equal to the combined net worth of the poorest 30 percent of all Americans.

All over the country, independent retailers are going out of business because they cannot compete with Wal-Mart and their super cheap Chinese products. Often communities will give Wal-Mart huge tax breaks just to move in to their areas. But what many communities don’t take into account is that the introduction of a Wal-Mart is often absolutely devastating to small businesses….

A study of small and rural towns in Iowa showed lost sales for local businesses ranging from -17.2% in small towns to -61.4% in rural areas, amounting to a total dollar loss of $2.46 BILLION over a 13-year period.

When we buy stuff made by people working for slave labor wages in China, we destroy good paying American jobs and we make America poorer. This is a point that I have tried to make over and over.

Wal-Mart often tells one thing to the public and then does another thing in private. Sadly, the truth is that Wal-Mart does not care about U.S. manufacturing jobs. Wal-Mart just wants to get products as cheaply as they possibly can, and most of the time that means getting them from China.

Just check out this first-hand testimony from an 81-year-old retired apparel manufacturer….

I was president of the Southwestern Apparel Manufacturers Association. There was a meeting sometime between 1985 and 1990. Walmart had contacted our organization and asked if they could meet with us at our beautiful Apparel Mart we had here in Dallas, which has now been razed, because all the independent merchants don’t exist that used to come to it. Two people from Walmart came down and they said they were going to be sourcing goods from overseas and we would have to meet those prices for consumer products and to get ready for it—we are going to be sourcing the world. Walmart was the only company that came out and said this.

It was sort of shocking: I was selling them some merchandise at the time. On the back of their trucks it was saying “Bring it Back to America!” They had the big “keep it in America” program going at that time on the big signs in the stores. Meanwhile when I reminded the buyer of that, she told me, “that is just for domestic consumption, we’re going to buy at the cheapest we can anywhere on earth.”

As I have written about previously, the United States has lost more than 56,000 manufacturing facilities since 2001.

We are losing millions of good jobs that cannot be replaced. If you can believe it, the United States has actually lost an average of about 50,000 manufacturing jobs a month since China joined the World Trade Organization in 2001.

Last year, the U.S. trade deficit with China was the biggest trade deficit that one nation has had with another nation in the history of the world, and Wal-Mart played a huge role in that.

In fact, Wal-Mart has actually been forcing some U.S. manufacturers to pack up and move overseas. The following is from a recent article by Amy Traub….

Walmart’s market power is so immense that the even the largest suppliers must comply with its demands for lower and lower prices because they cannot afford to have their goods taken off its shelves. Companies that used to manufacture products in the United States, from Levi’s jeans to lock maker Master Lock, were pressured to shut their U.S. factories and moved manufacturing abroad to meet Walmart’s demand for low prices.

Unfortunately, the vast wealth that Wal-Mart is sucking out of our communities is not put back into our communities. The profits are funneled out to Wal-Mart executives and shareholders. We may enjoy the low prices, but very little of the money that we give to Wal-Mart gets recycled in our local areas.

In the old days, you could actually support a family selling electronics or running a general store. But you can’t support a family working at Wal-Mart. The vast majority of the jobs that Wal-Mart creates are very low paying. Large numbers of Wal-Mart employees are actually on welfare, and this is part of the reason why we have seen such an explosion in the number of the working poor in America.

At this point, more than 40 percent of all jobs in America are low wage jobs and the middle class is rapidly disappearing.

If we do not support American jobs and American manufacturers they will continue to go away and the welfare rolls in this country will continue to explode.

There is not going to be any prosperity in this country without jobs. Unfortunately, most Americans simply do not understand how good jobs are being systematically destroyed in America every single day.

The path that America is headed on today is only going to end in complete and total disaster. We are being transformed from a wealthy nation into a poor nation. In the end, we will be dominated by a very tiny elite and everyone else will either be among the working poor or will be totally dependent on the government.

Our system is supposed to be about open, honest competition. But that is not what Wal-Mart is about. Wal-Mart is about crushing small businesses and manufacturers here in America and getting us all to buy their super cheap Chinese-made goods.

Shame on Wal-Mart. They are an un-American disgrace.

So what do all of you think about Wal-Mart? Please feel free to post a comment with your thoughts below….
Are you proposing tariffs?

[chudrockz]

And when your job is "outsourced" rest assured Wal-Mart will have an opening.

Get government out of the mix and there's a good chance a hoard of unemployed starving displaced workers would have taken your kings feast to feed their families.

Wal-Mart isn't the bad-guy, they're smart, showing more and more profit with every job that leaves the country.

Our government is the bad-guy supporting those who are not working when we're broke.

Take away welfare/medicare/section 8 housing and food-stamps........Let's see how well the Wal-Mart business model does.

IF my job is outsourced, I may well consider applying. I'd be proud to work there.

In the meantime, far too much of what I'm reading here this morning sounds like protectionist drivel. The sort of "the automobile is the scourge of the earth because it's putting buggy makers out of work" type nonsense I'd expect to read on some socialist website, but disappointing on one supposedly dedicated to liberty.

[tfurrh]

IF my job is outsourced, I may well consider applying. I'd be proud to work there.

In the meantime, far too much of what I'm reading here this morning sounds like protectionist drivel. The sort of "the automobile is the scourge of the earth because it's putting buggy makers out of work" type nonsense I'd expect to read on some socialist website, but disappointing on one supposedly dedicated to liberty.

Man, with all due respect, you don't understand the big picture behind Walmart. None of are complaining about what you think we're complaining about. Here's a nice link that describes what's going on behind the scenes with big corporations & our gov't:

http://dougwead.wordpress.com/2011/10/03/ron-paul-and-the-occupy-wall-street-protest/


Let’s say you are a young couple, newly married, anxious to get your piece of the American dream. And let’s say you decide to open your own hamburger stand.

Your first obstacle will be a maze of federal regulations. They are all well intended, helping out the disabled, protecting the environment, providing for workers’ health. The problem is that there are too many of them and they cost too much.

When I worked in the Bush Senior White House I saw the major companies come in and lobby for these REGS. They wanted them to be required for small businesses too, even businesses with five employees. Why? Because it would knock out the Mom and Pop operations who couldn’t afford them. By driving up costs they could assure that they would have a monopoly on hamburgers. But let’s say your parents mortgage their house and get you the start up money to pass that test.

Second, you will find that your competition controls the meat industry in this country. It is not just that they have volume but rather that their political donations assure that their friends get appointed to government meat inspection agencies. Sometimes, the very people who worked for the company will cross over and become a regulator. You must be prepared for some hair-raising conflicts of interest.

Third, your tax dollars will go to subsidize your competitor, the big hamburger company. Are you aware of this? This could be hundreds of millions of dollars.

There’s just no nice way to say this. Washington is corrupt. The big hamburger company establishes a lobby in Washington, D.C., which you can’t afford to do. They start with a firm of lawyers and former Justice Department prosecutors and meat inspectors. They lobby congress for money for their big hamburger corporation. And they get it.

For example, when I worked in the White House a major hamburger corporation lobbied for money saying that the French government was subsidizing their hamburger industry. Apparently the French felt that American hamburgers represented a cultural invasion. We had to either get a free trade agreement that worked or subsidize our own hamburger company.

Bottom line? Your competition is much larger and more powerful than you and not only controls the price and quality of the meat but takes dollars out of your pocket as an additional subsidy.

more at link

[tod evans]

IF my job is outsourced, I may well consider applying. I'd be proud to work there.

In the meantime, far too much of what I'm reading here this morning sounds like protectionist drivel. The sort of "the automobile is the scourge of the earth because it's putting buggy makers out of work" type nonsense I'd expect to read on some socialist website, but disappointing on one supposedly dedicated to liberty.

I'm in no way advocating socialism, "our government" has put all of us in an unsustainable position and when things finally work themselves out it'll be ugly.

Like I said earlier; "I'm worried for my son."

[RonRules]

On a large scale overall, Walmart improves US efficiency, reduces inflation and actually saves energy.

Each Walmart, compared to the hundreds of little individual shops it replaces makes better use of human labor and energy.

Walmart may be the greenest company in America, not because they occasionally install solar panels, but because their retail operations are run efficiently. Efficiency saves energy. Dollars saved is energy saved.

On the other hand, in some small rural areas and villages, a Walmart may reduce time and energy efficiency because people have to drive to the nearest Walmart, which may be 10-20 miles away. It also puts a local, efficient mom & pop and general stores shop out of business.

Overall Walmart does a lot of good for the country. They also bring in a lot of money from their operations in other countries. It's a net positive.

[chudrockz]

Wow, I just put some oil in my truck. I bought a five quart jug of it at Wal Mart. I suppose that makes me an evil SOB, because I could/ should have spent $5 more for that same oil at Jiffy Lube, or $10 more for it at a "mom and pop."

In the meantime, I have five, or ten, more dollars which I can spend somewhere else at my leisure. Maybe even a local bar for lunch.

Right after I stop back at Wal Mart and buy a completely superfluous video game.

Edit: just noticed I'm actually getting some NEG reps on this thread! That's frappin' hilarious. I might have to get TWO video games instead!

:)

[fisharmor]

White Wheat Bread?
I suppose there's a chance a guy going by GunnyFreedom may never have seen this acronym....
Winchester "White Box". The all-white box with the red lettering.
Generally the cheapest new cartridges available anywhere, and only at Wal-Mart.

[KingNothing]

Hating Wal-Mart is an unbelievably arrogant thing to do. Their efficiency provides millions of Americans with goods they could not otherwise afford, thereby raising our standard of living. Demonizing that is basically saying "hey, you poor people, you'd have to either accept worse products or go without, when we get rid of Wal-Mart, but so what? DEAL WITH IT."

[KingNothing]

Wow, I just put some oil in my truck. I bought a five quart jug of it at Wal Mart. I suppose that makes me an evil SOB, because I could/ should have spent $5 more for that same oil at Jiffy Lube, or $10 more for it at a "mom and pop."

In the meantime, I have five, or ten, more dollars which I can spend somewhere else at my leisure. Maybe even a local bar for lunch.


Hey, don't go and logically analyze this sort of thing! Emotions rule here, not reason and economics!

[tod evans]

Agreed, So why not cut the subsidies that prop up their business model?

Let's see how those "billions" move around without welfare/food-stamps/medicare and section 8 housing.

The tax payer has been propping up outsourcing for decades, we don't need, nor can we afford to pay government "workers" let alone government "dependents".

I'd be interested to see how this all worked out on a level playing field..


On a large scale overall, Walmart improves US efficiency, reduces inflation and actually saves energy.

Each Walmart, compared to the hundreds of little individual shops it replaces makes better use of human labor and energy.

Walmart may be the greenest company in America, not because they occasionally install solar panels, but because their retail operations are run efficiently. Efficiency saves energy. Dollars saved is energy saved.

On the other hand, in some small rural areas and villages, a Walmart may reduce time and energy efficiency because people have to drive to the nearest Walmart, which may be 10-20 miles away. It also puts a local, efficient mom & pop and general stores shop out of business.

Overall Walmart does a lot of good for the country. They also bring in a lot of money from their operations in other countries. It's a net positive.

[specsaregood]

Generally the cheapest new cartridges available anywhere, and only at Wal-Mart.

In most states, walmart doesnt sell ammunition in all states.

[KingNothing]

Meh. We actually ate two kinds of brats, steaks, burgers, chicken skewers, and parmesan crusted pork tenderloin.

But I guess people were better off prior to Wal Mart when only the super rich could eat like that.


HOW DARE YOU ENJOY LIFE BY PURCHASING THINGS AT WAL-MART! YOU SHOULD GO WITHOUT, YOU LOUSY PEST!

[KingNothing]

Having a lot of employees doesn't necessarily mean a good thing. The government has a lot of employees, just sayin'.


You're unbelievable. You've got to be the worst, most irrational poster on this board.
The government employees people by literally stealing money from others. Wal-Mart... ummm... doesn't do that?

[fisharmor]

In most states, walmart doesnt sell ammunition in all states.

Yeah but the states where it isn't allowed don't count.

[KingNothing]

But at least you have a choice to buy all that junk. If you can't control your own choices, don't burden the rest of us with the angst of your decisions.

I do everything I can to avoid chains of all types. I go without, rather than purchasing from such entities. But I also recognize that this is a privilege. I have an ability to buy better, more expensive products, from non-corporate entities and not everyone is so lucky. I do what I can to support Mom and Pop entrepreneurs while fully endorsing the ability of others to embrace economies of scale, increased efficiency and the lower overall prices that allow for greater enjoyment of life.

[KingNothing]

So, if I get the hate right, the biggest gripe of at least one poster against Wal Mart is that, out of one hundred million weekly customers, 1% of them are obese and .0005% of them are freaks, Wal Mart is evil and out to destroy humanity.

Got it.

It's classest, arrogant, hateful, tripe. It's pathetic.

[Acala]

Nine things to know about Walmart:

1. Walmart is not a social service agency
2. It is not Walmart's job to provide health care
3. It is not Walmart's job to redistribute income to achieve social justice
4. It is not Walmart's job to make monetary policy
5. It is not Walmart's job to make ANY government policy, including all the policies that favor big corporations
6. Walmart is not responsible for the cost of producing goods in China being less than in the USA
7. Walmart's job is to sell goods and make a profit doing it within the given system of laws, policies, and economic conditions
8. Walmart will not force you to work there or shop there.
9. Walmart will not shoot your dog, throw you in a rape cage, or even complain about your yard sign.

[angelatc]

Walmart is so awesome. I mean, they're revenue is greater than most countries GDP, and the average American family spends 8% of their income there a year. What a success story.

Exactly. What other business entity would meet with their competitors to announce their sales strategy, giving those competitors time to create an counter-strategy?

Until the government tells me I have to buy my groceries at WalMart, I'm happy they're around.

[pacu44]

How much of their money comes from food stamps?

[tod evans]

Somebody please cover me on rep, I'm out.:o


Nine things to know about Walmart:

1. Walmart is not a social service agency
2. It is not Walmart's job to provide health care
3. It is not Walmart's job to redistribute income to achieve social justice
4. It is not Walmart's job to make monetary policy
5. It is not Walmart's job to make ANY government policy, including all the policies that favor big corporations
6. Walmart is not responsible for the cost of producing goods in China being less than in the USA
7. Walmart's job is to sell goods and make a profit doing it within the given system of laws, policies, and economic conditions
8. Walmart will not force you to work there or shop there.
9. Walmart will not shoot your dog, throw you in a rape cage, or even complain about your yard sign.

[angelatc]

On a large scale overall, Walmart improves US efficiency, reduces inflation and actually saves energy.

Each Walmart, compared to the hundreds of little individual shops it replaces makes better use of human labor and energy.

Walmart may be the greenest company in America, not because they occasionally install solar panels, but because their retail operations are run efficiently. Efficiency saves energy. Dollars saved is energy saved.

On the other hand, in some small rural areas and villages, a Walmart may reduce time and energy efficiency because people have to drive to the nearest Walmart, which may be 10-20 miles away. It also puts a local, efficient mom & pop and general stores shop out of business.

Overall Walmart does a lot of good for the country. They also bring in a lot of money from their operations in other countries. It's a net positive.


It's a HUGE positive. Maybe the liberals have quashed it now, but one of my last college textbooks had 3 chapters on the methods that WalMart used to bring down their overhead costs. They literally changed the way that all retailers do inventory management.

And they did it by bringing a huge selection of goods to rural America - places that had never, ever had the option of buying this year's model TV off the shelf on a whim. Before that, they were stuck with the electronics that small retailers bought at liquidation sales, sometimes sitting on a shelves for 2 and 3 years, unless they wanted to order from the Sears catalog.

Wal-Mart made their initial billions tapping into markets that other retailers said were not densely populated enough to be popular. They didn't even start moving into the suburbs until the late '80's.

And they were actually one of our best hopes to get affordable medical care back in our local neighborhoods, but the liberal snobs didn't want anything to do with that.

[oyarde]

I go to Wal Mart almost daily. I'm a homeowner, and as such can scarcely afford to shop elsewhere.

I got our grill at Wal Mart and we ate like kings yesterday with meat purchased at Wal Mart.

Don't for the life of me get all this hate for something which has done so much good. I would never buy meat at Wal Mart , I can get better prices at at least three local groceries and I know where that meat came from ,If I was not feeding others , I dunno ...

[oyarde]

Wow, I just put some oil in my truck. I bought a five quart jug of it at Wal Mart. I suppose that makes me an evil SOB, because I could/ should have spent $5 more for that same oil at Jiffy Lube, or $10 more for it at a "mom and pop."

In the meantime, I have five, or ten, more dollars which I can spend somewhere else at my leisure. Maybe even a local bar for lunch.

Right after I stop back at Wal Mart and buy a completely superfluous video game.

Edit: just noticed I'm actually getting some NEG reps on this thread! That's frappin' hilarious. I might have to get TWO video games instead!

:)I get mine at the farm store , $3 cheaper on sale , or same price , 5.1 sale $16.04

[tfurrh]

It is surprising how some people look at a state like Arkansas, and yet do not wonder about the so-called great fortunes headquartered there. Tyson, Wal-Mart, and J.B. Hunt Transport Services.

All scratching each others back.

[oyarde]

White Wheat Bread? Winchester White Box , ( no racism intended ;) )

[oyarde]

It is the cheap stuff Glenn , but shoots well .

[specsaregood]

It is surprising how some people look at a backward state like Arkansas, and yet do not wonder about the so-called great fortunes headquartered there. Tyson, Wal-Mart, and J.B. Hunt Transport Services.


Backward, interesting. What is to wonder about? Are "backward" people not capable of starting, running and working for successful businesses?

[chudrockz]

Winchester White Box , ( no racism intended ;) )

The Winchester whitebox target stuff is nearly all I ever get for my Glock. Plenty of practice, thanks to Wal Mart's low prices! :)

[oyarde]

I go to Wal Mart almost daily. I'm a homeowner, and as such can scarcely afford to shop elsewhere.

I got our grill at Wal Mart and we ate like kings yesterday with meat purchased at Wal Mart.

Don't for the life of me get all this hate for something which has done so much good.

For Farm stuff , oil , ammo etc I use Rural King , for Home stuff cash , I use Menards , Lowes , Home Depot in that order , at the fist two , I can routinely beat Wal Mart on price on sale and can get a rain check .

[tfurrh]

Backward, interesting. What is to wonder about? Are "backward" people not capable of starting, running and working for successful businesses?

Maybe I didn't mean backward. You should look at the history of JB Hunt when the trucking industry was regulated - then 'deregulated'. Why do you think these companies headquartered in AR? AR was on the take big time from all kinds of subsidies.

[oyarde]

For Home stuff , credit , I use Home Depot , Lowes in that order .

[tod evans]

Did ya`ever stop to think that "backwards folks" portray that image on purpose?



It is surprising how some people look at a backward state like Arkansas, and yet do not wonder about the so-called great fortunes headquartered there. Tyson, Wal-Mart, and J.B. Hunt Transport Services.

All scratching each others back.

[tfurrh]

Did ya`ever stop to think that "backwards folks" portray that image on purpose?

Sorry that I derailed my own post by using that word. I took it out, it wasn't the point of my post. geez.

[noxagol]

If Americans weren't forced to pay for the largest, most expensive military the world has ever seen, for every 3rd, 4th, or 5th neighbor's meals, for their general living expenses because they can't/won't find a job, countless business subsidies, the retirement of tens of millions of other people, or for every other kids stuffy nose or warm forehead, they could work for far less money while still bringing home the same amount of money because they wouldn't be getting taxed so horrendously.

This decrease in wages would make it better to produce in America versus overseas because they wouldn't have to ship everything over an ocean. It would also make it easier to get new shipments because it wouldn't be made in place over 7000 miles away but maybe a few hundred. You could literally order something and get it next day or two days from now instead of a week or two weeks from now. All of this would conspire to make everyone much better off.

I work at walmart, the ones that are complaining of weirdos clearly never go to walmart or are incredible judgmental. Yes, there are weirdos, but not nearly as many as people make it out to seem.

[specsaregood]

Maybe I didn't mean backward. You should look at the history of JB Hunt when the trucking industry was regulated - then 'deregulated'. Why do you think these companies headquartered in AR? AR was on the take big time from all kinds of subsidies.

No, I think you got your point across just fine with "backward". Cuz you know corruption and getting on the subsidy teat is a flaw only in dem der backward folk.

[oyarde]

It's a HUGE positive. Maybe the liberals have quashed it now, but one of my last college textbooks had 3 chapters on the methods that WalMart used to bring down their overhead costs. They literally changed the way that all retailers do inventory management.

And they did it by bringing a huge selection of goods to rural America - places that had never, ever had the option of buying this year's model TV off the shelf on a whim. Before that, they were stuck with the electronics that small retailers bought at liquidation sales, sometimes sitting on a shelves for 2 and 3 years, unless they wanted to order from the Sears catalog.

Wal-Mart made their initial billions tapping into markets that other retailers said were not densely populated enough to be popular. They didn't even start moving into the suburbs until the late '80's.

And they were actually one of our best hopes to get affordable medical care back in our local neighborhoods, but the liberal snobs didn't want anything to do with that.

I remember Sears and Wards catalogs . Nothing cooler than looking through a pre WW 1 Roebuck :)

[tfurrh]

No, I think you got your point across just fine with "backward". Cuz you know corruption and getting on the subsidy teat is a flaw only in dem der backward folk.

Don't talk about Billy Clinton that way.

[angelatc]

I remember Sears and Wards catalogs . Nothing coller than looking through a pre WW 1 Roebuck :)

Yes, the underwear sections!!!!

but i remember banging my head when Sears announced they were ending their catalog distribution. I knew is was the wrong call, because the internet was just coming into the mainstream. They were probably the best equipped to cash in on the impending internet shopping boom, and instead they closed up shop? Huge mistake, IMHO.

[angelatc]

I work at walmart, the ones that are complaining of weirdos clearly never go to walmart or are incredible judgmental. Yes, there are weirdos, but not nearly as many as people make it out to seem.

When I was in high school I worked at a local Mom & Pop hardware store. We had weirdos too. I suspect that anybody who has ever worked retail knows that eccentricity isn't something that WalMart has cornered the market on.

[Cowlesy]

Think about it.

If we didn't have WalMart, there would be no PEOPLE OF WALMART email fwds.

[TruthisTreason]

I'll address one point ( too many to address in the whole article).

#12 Tens of thousands of Wal-Mart employees and their children are enrolled in Medicaid and are dependent on the government for healthcare.

And if they didn't work at Wal-Mart, they'd work at some local, mom & pop grocery store and still be enrolled in Medicaid and dependent on the government for health care. OR WORSE, they wouldn't have a job!

[noxagol]

I'll address one point ( too many to address in the whole article).

#12 Tens of thousands of Wal-Mart employees and their children are enrolled in Medicaid and are dependent on the government for healthcare.

And if they didn't work at Wal-Mart, they'd work at some local, mom & pop grocery store and still be enrolled in Medicaid and dependent on the government for health care. OR WORSE, they wouldn't have a job!

Indeed. I think this is a jab at them not providing the ultimate in health insurance at no cost to their employees. They do have insurance and it's pretty damn cheap from what I hear unless you pick one of the retardo plans. Granted, its just my wife and I on the plan. My insurance costs half of what the insurance through her company costs.

[Sam I am]

I like wal-mart. I shop there all the time.

Yes, Walmart is large.

Yes, walmart imports a lot of things from china.

No, I really don't care.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

And when your job is "outsourced" rest assured Wal-Mart will have an opening.

Get government out of the mix and there's a good chance a hoard of unemployed starving displaced workers would have taken your kings feast to feed their families.

Wal-Mart isn't the bad-guy, they're smart, showing more and more profit with every job that leaves the country.

Our government is the bad-guy supporting those who are not working when we're broke.

Take away welfare/medicare/section 8 housing and food-stamps........Let's see how well the Wal-Mart business model does.

Um, our economic woes are a product of poor policy and mass expropriation, leaving less and less resources in the commercial enterprise, vice the political. It's not just Welfare which is contributing to our calamity. The reason why Wal-Mart is not completely innocent is because they abuse local-Government power in their favor to disadvantage competitors. Still though, without that I still think Wal-Mart would be a large firm, just not as large as it is now. It is hardly evil, but they aren't an angel either.

[specsaregood]

Still though, without that I still think Wal-Mart would be a large firm, just not as large as it is now. It is hardly evil, but they aren't an angel either.

If we had a non-fiat monetary system i'm not sure any of these big firms would be nearly as big as they are. And every strip mall in america wouldnt' be composed of the same dozen chains.

[tfurrh]

If we had a non-fiat monetary system i'm not sure any of these big firms would be nearly as big as they are. And every strip mall in america wouldnt' be composed of the same dozen chains.

I think that as well.....unbackwardsly.
DEF EHT DNE
pǝɟ ǝɥʇ puǝ
END THE FED

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

If we had a non-fiat monetary system i'm not sure any of these big firms would be nearly as big as they are. And every strip mall in america wouldnt' be composed of the same dozen chains.

That's a reasonable expectation given enough time for trends towards equilibrium to emerge. We witness the same events in the late 1800s and early 1900s until the Progressive Era ushered in Fascism on a national scale.

[KingNothing]

I rated this thread as "terrible" because of the original post. Many of the responses to it, though, have been awesome.

[Suzanimal]

I don't care for Walmart. It's just a pain in the butt getting in and out of there and I hate being treated like a criminal when I shop there. (receipt checkers at the door) I go there every couple of months and buy laundry detergent and misc household stuff but I usually try to avoid it. I go to the (locally owned) Asian Market for my groceries, the meat and produce are amazing and the prices are fantastic. Rib eye = 3.99lb!!! You have to buy the whole rib eye and it's not butchered but for 3.99lb it's worth the hassle. potatoes= 2.99/10 lbs, watermelons 2.99 - I could go on all day, they are super cheap on fresh foods. If you live in the Lilburn/Lawrenceville/Snellville area of Gwinnett County in GA, check em out (the Lilburn store is my favorite).

http://nsgifm.com/index.html

[tod evans]

Our government is broke, it's printing and borrowing money faster than it can disburse welfare/employee checks.

The problem isn't Wal-Mart, it's government.


I'll address one point ( too many to address in the whole article).

#12 Tens of thousands of Wal-Mart employees and their children are enrolled in Medicaid and are dependent on the government for healthcare.

And if they didn't work at Wal-Mart, they'd work at some local, mom & pop grocery store and still be enrolled in Medicaid and dependent on the government for health care. OR WORSE, they wouldn't have a job!

[Barrex]

I think that as well.....unbackwardsly.
DEF EHT DNE
pǝɟ ǝɥʇ puǝ
END THE FED
Do you need exorcist?
How did you make letters upside down?


I wasnt shocked. The bigger company is cheaper it becomes...

[tfurrh]

Do you need exorcist?
How did you make letters upside down?

fliptext.org, then copy/paste

[Henry Rogue]

I got no response for my question on post 51. What is the purpose of the first post? Is the point to hate Walmart for being successful, driving out less efficient business and selling foreign products? I hope there’s more to it than that. Is the purpose to show that Walmart gains advantage through government force? If so it failed in that regard. What do you propose as a solution? Tariffs? Price controls? Unionization? Embargoes? Maybe the solution would be better served if the focus was on the cause, not the effect. Has there ever been a private Monopoly that did not involve government in its creation? Prevention of imminent domain, Constitutional Amendment for the separation of economy and state, and deregulation, perhaps.

[oyarde]

I don't care for Walmart. It's just a pain in the butt getting in and out of there and I hate being treated like a criminal when I shop there. (receipt checkers at the door) I go there every couple of months and buy laundry detergent and misc household stuff but I usually try to avoid it. I go to the (locally owned) Asian Market for my groceries, the meat and produce are amazing and the prices are fantastic. Rib eye = 3.99lb!!! You have to buy the whole rib eye and it's not butchered but for 3.99lb it's worth the hassle. potatoes= 2.99/10 lbs, watermelons 2.99 - I could go on all day, they are super cheap on fresh foods. If you live in the Lilburn/Lawrenceville/Snellville area of Gwinnett County in GA, check em out (the Lilburn store is my favorite).

http://nsgifm.com/index.htmlgOOD JOB ON THE MEAT.

[Henry Rogue]

My fear is attacking Walmart will produce restrictions by government on Walmart, resulting in the eventual bailout of Walmart. Because of course it is to big to fail (sarcasm).

[ShowMeLiberty]

You know why I cannot get upset at all about WalMart/WalMarx/The Chinese Embassy, is because you have a choice to not go there. There is no compulsory law that says you must shop at WalMart. Now the finger-wagger is going to retort with, "But you're forced into it because it causes all the Mom/Pop shops to shutdown" but speaking from my experience living around at least four WalMarts in my lifetime, there *still* are other places to go shop. In the rural town in which I grew up that is a shell of its former self as all the heavy industry shutdown, there are still two alternative larger grocery stores, and lots of small shops for other goods likes clothes, Tractor Supply for all your lawn/garden stuff, even a heavy-discount grocer, a dollar general for cheap stuff.

So, all I see Walmart giving you, is another choice. You can go there and get everything you want, or you can make a choice, and hit up two to three smaller stores.

If people would reduce the clutter in their lives and stop buying every piece of useless plastic crap glow-in-the-dark can opener, clip-on-to-your-lawn-chair beer bottle holster, tiki torch, lawn gnome piece of junk, there'd simply be less of this stuff out there.

But at least you have a choice to buy all that junk. If you can't control your own choices, don't burden the rest of us with the angst of your decisions.

Edit: My post isn't directed toward anyone specifically, just my sweepingly generalized facepalm at society writ large.

Exactly. WalMart didn't start out as a gigantic corporation. They got that way because people WANT to shop there.

[Petar]

//

[fisharmor]

I go to the (locally owned) Asian Market for my groceries, the meat and produce are amazing and the prices are fantastic.

ASIAN MARKET FTW!!!

Also, it's really nice to be able to get a week's worth of apples AND a bottle of mirin or bonito flakes.
;)

[heavenlyboy34]

I remember Sears and Wards catalogs . Nothing cooler than looking through a pre WW 1 Roebuck :)
My mom called it "Monkey Wards" back in those days. (I was quite young at that time) lol :D

[farreri]

Fuck Walmart.

[Acala]

My mom called it "Monkey Wards" back in those days. (I was quite young at that time) lol :D

Where Granny Warrior shops.

[specsaregood]

//

[Henry Rogue]

If I have neg rep anyone on this thread or any other. let me know. Also can a Mod fix that. I have never purposely neg rep anyone. Sometimes the cursor on my laptop automatically clicks on things and somethings don't show up on my laptop till the next day. Very frustrating. Using old computer now with firefox.

[chudrockz]

If I have neg rep anyone on this thread or any other. let me know. Also can a Mod fix that. I have never purposely neg rep anyone. Sometimes the cursor on my laptop automatically clicks on things and somethings don't show up on my laptop till the next day. Very frustrating. Using old computer now with firefox.

No worries, friend! In the meantime, look into a new computer. They're really a good deal at Wal Mart. We looked just the other day. :)

(Honestly we need one, too.)

[angelatc]

If we had a non-fiat monetary system i'm not sure any of these big firms would be nearly as big as they are. And every strip mall in america wouldnt' be composed of the same dozen chains.

My small town paper just had a discussion about what they wanted to see in the empty Blockbuster space, and every single answer was a chain store. And that's on a corner where there is a Target, WalMart and Meijer. Not one person said they wanted anything locally owned.

[GunnyFreedom]

I suppose there's a chance a guy going by GunnyFreedom may never have seen this acronym....
Winchester "White Box". The all-white box with the red lettering.
Generally the cheapest new cartridges available anywhere, and only at Wal-Mart.

Ah! OK. Yeah, the only cheap ammo I ever get is surplus M855 on the blue moon that actually surfaces anymore. Rifle ammo I go for heavy grain weight match grade, for pistol ammo I go for heavy grain weight hydroshocks. All of it kinda pricy. For target practice I dig out the cheapest FMJ I can pry out of CheaperThanDirt and similar, So yeah I wouldn't really know what Winchester White Box is. Thanks for clueing me in though, I may have to try it.

[angelatc]

My mom called it "Monkey Wards" back in those days. (I was quite young at that time) lol :D

LOL - that's what we always called it now that you mention it.

In the early '90's I used to Christmas shop there because it was the only store that wasn't crowded. Then it went away.

[GunnyFreedom]

Winchester White Box , ( no racism intended ;) )


It is the cheap stuff Glenn , but shoots well .

Yeah, when I pulled up an image of Winchester White Box I recognized it. Just never called it that. I don't generally buy it either, because if I buy in low quantities I'm buying serious rounds for home defense self defense very ling range rifle...if I'm buying target shooting rounds I'm buying lots of 1000 that are the cheapest thing I can find in the same (or close) grainweight I'll be shooting for my serious rounds.

Having pulled up an image of it, I recognize the box, just never heard it called that before. :p

I have referred to it before as "That Winchester generic looking stuff" haha

[GunnyFreedom]

No worries, friend! In the meantime, look into a new computer. They're really a good deal at Wal Mart. We looked just the other day. :)

(Honestly we need one, too.)

Now I am certainly not one of these rabid Walmart haters, but I admit that I find the passionate fanboy attitude you have shown in this thread at least as disturbing as the kneejerk hatred shown by others. WalMart is where it is in large part due to corporatism, which thing we free marketers are supposed to hate.

[Sola_Fide]

Um, our economic woes are a product of poor policy and mass expropriation, leaving less and less resources in the commercial enterprise, vice the political. It's not just Welfare which is contributing to our calamity. The reason why Wal-Mart is not completely innocent is because they abuse local-Government power in their favor to disadvantage competitors. Still though, without that I still think Wal-Mart would be a large firm, just not as large as it is now. It is hardly evil, but they aren't an angel either.

^^^Agree.

[chudrockz]

Now I am certainly not one of these rabid Walmart haters, but I admit that I find the passionate fanboy attitude you have shown in this thread at least as disturbing as the kneejerk hatred shown by others. WalMart is where it is in large part due to corporatism, which thing we free marketers are supposed to hate.

Don't get me wrong, Wal Mart should not be given ANY favors by government, just like no one should. Or be allowed to do things like eminent domain, which is thoroughly and completely evil.

But the fact is that people of limited means can afford to get things there which improve their lives. Prior to Wal Mart that was lacking.

Just as a for instance: my local grocery store has boxes of hamburger helper (which I find tasty, sue me!) usually for about $2.59 a box. Wal Mart has them all day for $1 a box.

[GunnyFreedom]

Don't get me wrong, Wal Mart should not be given ANY favors by government, just like no one should. Or be allowed to do things like eminent domain, which is thoroughly and completely evil.

But the fact is that people of limited means can afford to get things there which improve their lives. Prior to Wal Mart that was lacking.

Just as a for instance: my local grocery store has boxes of hamburger helper (which I find tasty, sue me!) usually for about $2.59 a box. Wal Mart has them all day for $1 a box.

Don't you have any normal grocery stores around, like here in NC we have "FoodLion" whose prices are generally within 2% of WalMart, and they have been around at least 50 years. I was always able to find low prices on stuff before WalMart came around, the primary difference was WalMart gathered them all together in one spot instead of 5.

[oyarde]

Yeah, when I pulled up an image of Winchester White Box I recognized it. Just never called it that. I don't generally buy it either, because if I buy in low quantities I'm buying serious rounds for home defense self defense very ling range rifle...if I'm buying target shooting rounds I'm buying lots of 1000 that are the cheapest thing I can find in the same (or close) grainweight I'll be shooting for my serious rounds.

Having pulled up an image of it, I recognize the box, just never heard it called that before. :p

I have referred to it before as "That Winchester generic looking stuff" haha

Its what us tight ass rednecks in my neck of the woods use out back on a day off , the good stuff is in case we are attacked :) , hope not ...

[GunnyFreedom]

Don't you have any normal grocery stores around, like here in NC we have "FoodLion" whose prices are generally within 2% of WalMart, and they have been around at least 50 years. I was always able to find low prices on stuff before WalMart came around, the primary difference was WalMart gathered them all together in one spot instead of 5.

And what I mean by that is comparing WalMart to a Lowes Foods or a Kroger while it makes for a stark contrast would be a bit disingenuous, when the chances are the 'ordinary' grocery store like a Food Lion or a BiLo or whatever in your region has pricing hovering right around the same as WalMart, and did so even before WalMart moved into the area.

[GunnyFreedom]

Its what us tight ass rednecks in my neck of the woods use out back on a day off , the good stuff is in case we are attacked :) , hope not ...

LOL if you saw where I live you would surely be including me in that group. :p

I do the same, really, I just save up and buy the huge lots of 1000 rds for target loads so I save more and get to shoot more. It's not WWB but hodgepodge from buy to buy, but it manages to put holes in paper at range, so I'm happy,

[chudrockz]

And what I mean by that is comparing WalMart to a Lowes Foods or a Kroger while it makes for a stark contrast would be a bit disingenuous, when the chances are the 'ordinary' grocery store like a Food Lion or a BiLo or whatever in your region has pricing hovering right around the same as WalMart, and did so even before WalMart moved into the area.

Southern Minnesota might well be quite a bit different than North Carolina, I dunno. I have found, and we shop alot, that Wal Mart's prices are significantly cheaper than any other store, and FAR cheaper than any other non-chain type store. For instance, our grocery choices primarily are Wal Mart, Sam's Club, Cub Foods, and Hyvee. I go to all of them on a regular basis. On some things Sam's is cheapest by far (but not other things) while in almost all other cases Wal Mart is the cheapest. I will often check a few prices at Wal Mart (on things I buy, or just out of curiosity) then check the same items at Cub and Hyvee, and I'd say in my experience Wal Mart's prices are on average probably 25% lower than any other option.

[GunnyFreedom]

Southern Minnesota might well be quite a bit different than North Carolina, I dunno. I have found, and we shop alot, that Wal Mart's prices are significantly cheaper than any other store, and FAR cheaper than any other non-chain type store. For instance, our grocery choices primarily are Wal Mart, Sam's Club, Cub Foods, and Hyvee. I go to all of them on a regular basis. On some things Sam's is cheapest by far (but not other things) while in almost all other cases Wal Mart is the cheapest. I will often check a few prices at Wal Mart (on things I buy, or just out of curiosity) then check the same items at Cub and Hyvee, and I'd say in my experience Wal Mart's prices are on average probably 25% lower than any other option.

Sams Club is WalMart without the ambiance and with a membership fee. I actually mean that, same owners and everything.

I go to the BJ's Warehouse or the CostCo if I want to buy something in sick bulk, I tend to prefer WalMart brand dairy because they have promised not to use rBGH, which their whispered unrecorded promise is all I really have to cling to, but it's better than nothing, and I do most of my grocery shopping at Food Lion (unless it's 3AM lol) because it's only a mile down the road and within a percent or 2 of Wal Mart pricing.

[chudrockz]

I knew that Sam's and Walmart were sort of sister companies, yeah.

However, my brother and his wife have three kids, and they literally go through like eight gallons of milk every week. They save their membership fee at Sam's Club like twenty times over every month just on milk alone. :)

[angelatc]

Don't you have any normal grocery stores around, like here in NC we have "FoodLion" whose prices are generally within 2% of WalMart, and they have been around at least 50 years. I was always able to find low prices on stuff before WalMart came around, the primary difference was WalMart gathered them all together in one spot instead of 5.

For a while WalMart was the lowest price in town. These days I find that's no longer true.

[Acala]

Don't you have any normal grocery stores around, like here in NC we have "FoodLion"

We have "FoodWombat"

[tfurrh]

We have "FoodWombat"
Piggly Wiggly

[MelissaCato]

(I left my worm farm in the sun) sooo I went to walmart to get night crawler fishing worms - I looked at all their live bait and all of it was imported. That was it for me - I never went back.

Like we don't have night crawlers in America. :o)

[king_nothing_]

It saddens me that people on this site, of all sites, would participate in the "Walmart is evil" bandwagon. Disappointing. It's on the level of condemning Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, James J. Hill and the like of being "sinister Robber Barons" because they were enormously successful, made everything they touched pretty much plummet in price, and unequivocally raised the standard of living of the entire country/world. Please explain to me why I should hate people who do such things.

But oh no, there are occasionally weird, grotesque people shopping there. That's obviously more important.

[specsaregood]

Sams Club is WalMart without the ambiance and with a membership fee.

When they first came out they were called, "Walton's Wholesale Mart."

[GunnyFreedom]

We have "FoodWombat"

If the cashier ladys have the accent too, then it's worth the extra cost. :p I imagine though they'd have to import them though, AU being so far from Az and all that. Alphabet notwithstanding.

[GunnyFreedom]

Piggly Wiggly

LOL we have (had) those too, but I never really went there. Couldn't get past the name.

[tttppp]

Wal Mart is one of the first companies I know of that mastered the art of destroying towns. They move in, offer rediculously low prices, and overstaff themselves, sucking up to customers. They then put all the competition out of business. Once they do that, they scrap their stores and turn them into crap because they can. Most businesses copy this business model. Their goal is to destroy all the local competition, then turn their stores into crap once the competition is gone. I've seen many companies in my area do this.

[Ender]

It saddens me that people on this site, of all sites, would participate in the "Walmart is evil" bandwagon. Disappointing. It's on the level of condemning Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, James J. Hill and the like of being "sinister Robber Barons" because they were enormously successful, made everything they touched pretty much plummet in price, and unequivocally raised the standard of living of the entire country/world. Please explain to me why I should hate people who do such things.

But oh no, there are occasionally weird, grotesque people shopping there. That's obviously more important.

Agreed- there is nothing wrong with Walmart except the fact that it supplies products cheap and won't unionize.

Oh horror!

Walmart is always getting a media beating because it will not unionize. Also the fact that Walmart hires many people that would be "unhireable" elsewhere and gives them a job as a "greeter" might explain why some are also receiving gov assistance.

If you don't like Walmart, then shop elsewhere or open your own store, but to bash a business because it has actually done well and still has some affordable prices is lunacy.

[chudrockz]

Wal Mart is one of the first companies I know of that mastered the art of destroying towns. They move in, offer rediculously low prices, and overstaff themselves, sucking up to customers. They then put all the competition out of business. Once they do that, they scrap their stores and turn them into crap because they can. Most businesses copy this business model. Their goal is to destroy all the local competition, then turn their stores into crap once the competition is gone. I've seen many companies in my area do this.

And no doubt once they "turn their stores into crap" and "destroy the town" (funny, our Wal mart isn't crap, and the town's doing just fine) there is no incentive for a challenger to emerge and relegate "crappy" Wal Mart to the wrecking ball.

[Ender]

And no doubt once they "turn their stores into crap" and "destroy the town" (funny, our Wal mart isn't crap, and the town's doing just fine) there is no incentive for a challenger to emerge and relegate "crappy" Wal Mart to the wrecking ball.

Our town is very wealthy and the stores that give good service plus good prices do well- including Walmart. And there are 5 major grocery stores here in this little tourist town of 7000.

[Henry Rogue]

Economics In One Lesson, by Henry Hazlitt
http://www.fee.org/library/books/economics-in-one-lesson/#0.1_L12
Well worth reading.

[Weston White]

If you shop at Walmart:

1. You are not supporting your local community nearly as much as you could otherwise be, e.g., you might as well do your shopping from Amazon or whatever other Website.

2. You are supporting slave-labor on an international level and of a grand scale; to which Walmart brings that very mentality in labor practices within its very own doors of all its thousands of stores.

3. You should be very, very ashamed of yourself.

4. You really should just take the time and make arrangements for you and your family to shop at other businesses in your area and visit Walmart as little as possible or otherwise never at all -there is a reason why their prices are so very cheap, and as they say you get what you pay for.

[Ender]

If you shop at Walmart:

1. You are not supporting your local community nearly as much as you could otherwise be, e.g., you might as well do your shopping from Amazon or whatever other Website. So?

2. You are supporting slave-labor on an international level and of a grand scale; to which Walmart brings that very mentality in labor practices within its very own doors of all its thousands of stores. Baloney- BTW, every big corp also has shops in China, including Apple, Target etc.

3. You should be very, very ashamed of yourself. Not.

4. You really should just take the time and make arrangements for you and your family to shop at other businesses in your area and visit Walmart as little as possible or otherwise never at all -there is a reason why their prices are so very cheap, and as they say you get what you pay for. Go for it- I'll shop at Walmart when it suits me.


:rolleyes:

[heavenlyboy34]

Shorter than Hazlitt, but to-the-point:
http://mises.org/daily/1151
The accusations against Wal-Mart are numerous, and they include: paying overseas workers too little; not paying benefits to part-time workers; refusing to sell items that don't fall within its criteria for being "family-oriented"; not giving enough back to the community; and discriminating against women.All the accusations leveled against Wal-Mart can be applied to just about any large corporation in America , as frequently is the case. For example, Kathie Lee Gifford was almost run out of the country for indirectly giving jobs to otherwise unemployable, Third World workers.
In addition, most retail and service sector employees still do not get paid full job benefits, so what makes Wal-Mart so distinctive in that case? What's more, Wal-Mart management has indeed made decisions to refrain from selling certain items that did not live up to its moral standards—including certain music CDs and a brand of barbecue sauce sold by a man who promoted his Confederate heritage—but what's wrong with a private company exercising its own moral discretion according to its stated values? Accordingly, the marvelous ways of the free market allow us to move on elsewhere for our purchases when we are dissatisfied with what we perceive as corporate nonsense.
Wal-Mart is an employer that pays relatively low wages compared to most jobs or careers, and that engenders a sense of loathing from people getting paid those wages. But Wal-Mart is not unlike any other retailer in the respect that it, for the most part, provides jobs and not careers. Other gigantic corporations such as General Electric or General Motors, on the other hand, employ executives, college graduates, and skilled laborers, so they avoid much of the wage-related scrutiny given to retail employers. Add to that the labor union organizers' inability to unionize Wal-Mart and you have the perfect recipe for resentment and scorn.
The overriding charges one comes across amid the many Wal-Mart rants are "too large" and "too powerful." Thus it's just more anti-industry, anti-free market claptrap. Along with that are the hoots and hollers about this great chain "destroying small towns" by way of buying property in rural areas and opening its doors to townsfolk so they have access to convenient, one-stop shopping, an ample supply of products, and unbeatable prices.
However, there is one prevailing phenomenon that makes Wal-Mart a unique target for contempt and that is its "bigness." Americans, generally speaking, like to attack bigness. There are things associated with bigness that Americans aren't keen on, like clout and domination.
In fact, the favorite indictment of Wal-Mart is that they dominate the market wherever they go and sell goods at prices that are too low (gasp!). This in turn—say the naysayers—drives small, local competitors out of business because they can't compete with Wal-Mart's pricing or product selection.
Suppose it's true that Wal-Mart went around opening giant stores in small towns, pricing goods below their own cost long enough to drive local stores out of business. Even if this were correct, Wal-Mart would only be selling its own property. Suppose you want to sell a house you inherited, and quickly. Should you not be allowed to set the price as low as you want?
The theory goes that Wal-Mart could then set prices high, and make monopoly profits. How plausible is this, really? First, Wal-Mart executives would have to be able to see the future—they'd have to know about how long it would take to drive everyone out of business in advance, and know whether they could afford to price goods below cost for long enough to corner the market. Then, through trial and error, they'd have to find the point at which they could set prices low enough to keep customers from driving to another town, but high enough to recoup the losses from the earlier below-cost pricing.
It gets less plausible the more you think about it: The smaller the town, the easier it would be to drive competitors out of business. Then again, a town small enough for this would be small enough to have bitter memories of the pricing strategy and small enough to boycott Wal-Mart before the strategy succeeded. And a very small town would not support a giant Wal-Mart anyway. The larger the town, the less feasible it would be to drive others out of business in that town—Wal-Mart would have to drive their prices far below those of large grocery and department stores, which would be much more difficult.
Further, where is there evidence of Wal-Mart ever driving up prices after becoming established in a market? Wal-Mart has indeed set prices low enough to drive mom & pop stores out of business all over the country and kept the prices that low forever. Yet a journalist for the Cleveland Scene (http://www.clevescene.com/issues/2002-09-04/feature.html) said about Wal-Mart's pricing policy: "That's 100 million shoppers a week lured by 'Always Low Prices.'" Lured—as if consumers really don't want low prices; they are just tricked into thinking they do!
In a free market, large suppliers of nearly everything will drive most small suppliers out of business. The only people who can afford to do business on a small scale are people at the top of their fields or in a niche: McDonald's has to keep prices low, and economies of scale do this, while Brennan's restaurant in New Orleans can keep prices high. People who produce house paint and wallpaper must compete on price with other suppliers, while famous artists can keep their prices high. General Motors must keep prices low, while Rolls-Royce doesn't have to.
Nobody complains that there aren't family auto manufacturers, but the powerful farmers' political lobby makes sure we pay inflated prices to keep inefficient farmers in business. Of course, giant agribusinesses don't complain that their weaker competition is kept in the market, because the giant agribusinesses enjoy the inflated prices just as do the family farmers, some of whom are paid to leave their fields fallow.
Nobody complains that there aren't family pharmaceutical manufacturers, but people complain when Wal-Mart drives a corner drug store out of business. Yet if the corner drug store owners had the same political lobbying power farmers have, you can bet we'd be paying $20 for Q-tips.
If the truth be told, Wal-Mart improves the lives of people in rural areas because it gives them access to a lifestyle that they otherwise would not have—a gigantic store showcasing the world's greatest choice of products from groceries to music to automotive products. When it comes to prices and service, try finding 70% off clearances at your local mom-and-pop store or try going to that same store and returning shoes you've worn for three months for a full-price refund with no questions asked.
On the whole, if one doesn't like Wal-Mart and finds it to be of greater utility to support their local mom-and-pop stores for an assortment of cultural and non-economic reasons, then they may do so. If consumers wish to obstruct the development of a Wal-Mart store in their small town, they have scores of non-bullying options to pick from in order to try and persuade their fellow townsfolk that a new Wal-Mart is not the best option.
Still, it is not always easy to convince folks to eschew ultra-convenience for the sake of undefined, moral purposes. Consumers most often shop with their wallet, not with political precepts. For that reason, the anti-Wal-Mart crowd uses political coercion and an assortment of anti-private property decrees—such as zoning manipulation—in order to stave off the construction of a new Wal-Mart store in their town.
Hating Wal-Mart is the equivalent of hating Bill Gates. Sam Walton had a grandiose vision for himself, and sought to realize that vision by providing something people want—low prices. He has done every bit as much for your lifestyle as Bill Gates.
Families who shop carefully at Wal-Mart can actually budget more for investing, children's college funds, or entertainment. And unlike other giant corporations, Wal-Mart stores around the country make an attempt to provide a friendly atmosphere by spending money to hire greeters, who are often people who would have difficulty finding any other job. This is a friendly, partial solution to shoplifting problems; the solution K-mart applied ("Hey, what's in that bag?") didn't work as well.
It's interesting to observe that the consumers who denounce Wal-Mart are often the same folks who take great joy in reaping the rewards of corporate bigness, such as saving money with sales, clearances, and coupons, being able to engage in comparative shopping, and taking advantage of generous return policies.
When all's said and done, Wal-Mart employs lots of people; provides heaps of things you need in one place at the lowest prices you'll find; and gives millions to charities every year. Add up the charitable giving of all the mom & pop stores in the country and it probably won't equal that of one giant corporation.
To be sure, if Americans didn't love Wal-Mart so much it wouldn't be sitting at the top of the 2002 Fortune 500 with $219 billion in revenues. And we do love Wal-Mart. We love it because it gives us variety and abundance. We love it because it saves us time and wrangling. And we love it because no matter where we are, it's always there when we need it.

[PierzStyx]

If you shop at Walmart:

1. You are not supporting your local community nearly as much as you could otherwise be, e.g., you might as well do your shopping from Amazon or whatever other Website. SO? I'm a capitalist. If my local businesses either produces a superior product to justify increased price or become cheaper I'll shop there. Otherwise Wal-Mart wins. That is the free market baby.

2. You are supporting slave-labor on an international level and of a grand scale; to which Walmart brings that very mentality in labor practices within its very own doors of all its thousands of stores. I wasn't aware paying someone a mutually agreed wage was "slave labor". Also watch Penn and Teller's BS posted on the first page of thsi thread. It'll show how Wal-Mart produces more local jobs than local businesses did before Wal-Mart. That is an economic BOON for a locality.

3. You should be very, very ashamed of yourself.Nope. You shouldn't.

4. You really should just take the time and make arrangements for you and your family to shop at other businesses in your area and visit Walmart as little as possible or otherwise never at all -there is a reason why their prices are so very cheap, and as they say you get what you pay for. Yep. and I find it just as good for the most part as anything else. I don't get EVERYTHING at Wal-Mart. But what I do get, I am VERY pleased with. You can shop a syou please. But don't think you're somehow superior to others because of where you shop or what name you buy. You aren't.


Useless emotionalism overall. and BTW I frakking LOVE Amazon. One of the last free markets in America. Where else can I get a NY Bestseller, highly acclaimed, award winning biography for 0.01? Nowhere.

[heavenlyboy34]

Useless emotionalism overall. and BTW I frakking LOVE Amazon. One of the last free markets in America. Where else can I get a NY Bestseller, highly acclaimed, award winning biography for 0.01? Nowhere.Amazon FTW! :D

[AME3]

:) It's called free market capitalism, before Walmart it was K-mart before that it was Sears Roebuck....
They employ more people at better wages than the mom and pops too
We have mom and pops all over the place around here too, and the smart ones are holding their own.
I agree with Gunny in regards to what I think he was referring to, that we are wasting our hard earned money on crap and overfilling our landfills with it...most of that's comin outa the Walmart...
Cheap throwaway bikes, toys etc. Lost our sense of value and conservation, we have.
So the prob isn't Walmart, it's us...


So we have a company, Wal Mart, which has imo done more good for people in the manner of raising their standard of living and comfort, than any other entity EVER in the history of the planet, and supposed lovers of freedom want to light torches and grab pitchforks?

Color me ultra confused.

[Henry Rogue]

If you shop at Walmart:

1. You are not supporting your local community nearly as much as you could otherwise be, e.g., you might as well do your shopping from Amazon or whatever other Website.

2. You are supporting slave-labor on an international level and of a grand scale; to which Walmart brings that very mentality in labor practices within its very own doors of all its thousands of stores.

3. You should be very, very ashamed of yourself.

4. You really should just take the time and make arrangements for you and your family to shop at other businesses in your area and visit Walmart as little as possible or otherwise never at all -there is a reason why their prices are so very cheap, and as they say you get what you pay for.
Punish Walmart? Punish Yourself the Consumer? But don't punish the instigator the government? The so called slave-labor is a job and apparently better than any alternative available. Punish him too? The accumulated savings from lower prices could be used to purchase other products or invested thereby making the world richer as a whole. Don't just look at what is seen, but also, what is not seen.

[Anti Federalist]

Wal Marx is an atrocious company, one that embodies all the very worst of the corporate/government/globalist complex that we are living under.

I do not shop there and encourage everybody that I can to not spend a dime there, either.

[oyarde]

(I left my worm farm in the sun) sooo I went to walmart to get night crawler fishing worms - I looked at all their live bait and all of it was imported. That was it for me - I never went back.

Like we don't have night crawlers in America. :o) I used to sell them as a youngster , had a bed sunk in the woods made of old coolers .I would take the hose hooked to the well and soak the front yard at dusk , come back after dark with a flashlight , clean up , dozens , I sold them for 15 cents a dozen ...

[asurfaholic]

LOL we have (had) those too, but I never really went there. Couldn't get past the name.

They carry your groceries to your car for you.

And its good for meat. Fresh meat, good prices in my experience between food lion, harris teeter, walmart, and giggly piggly wiggle.

[Kluge]

Wal Marx is an atrocious company, one that embodies all the very worst of the corporate/government/globalist complex that we are living under.

I do not shop there and encourage everybody that I can to not spend a dime there, either.

Better or worse than Monsanto?

Just curious.

[chudrockz]

Okay, here's the deal. There are some damn freakin' poor people in this world. In my state. In my goddamned TOWN. Our neck of the woods has been suffering through a SEVERE heatwave for about the past week now.

What any of you hating so much on Walmart are saying, in effect, is this.

"Hey, you poor people! I know without Walmart, you'd not be able to afford that fan, or that window ac unit. Tough SHIT. If you buy that CHEAP CRAP at Walmart you are evil and a sinner, supporter of slave labor!"

It's ... classist, or something. Or just dumb.

I've said it before in this thread and I'll repeat: Walmart is TERRIFIC, and does TONS of good for millions of people. Folks who used to have to eat ramen and rice can afford burgers sometimes. Some who used to have to endure the heat can afford a nice fan. Shame the hell on THEM, right?

It's impossible to do this
:rolleyes:

enough.

[Anti Federalist]

Better or worse than Monsanto?

Just curious.

Similar.

[oyarde]

Okay, here's the deal. There are some damn freakin' poor people in this world. In my state. In my goddamned TOWN. Our neck of the woods has been suffering through a SEVERE heatwave for about the past week now.

What any of you hating so much on Walmart are saying, in effect, is this.

"Hey, you poor people! I know without Walmart, you'd not be able to afford that fan, or that window ac unit. Tough SHIT. If you buy that CHEAP CRAP at Walmart you are evil and a sinner, supporter of slave labor!"

It's ... classist, or something. Or just dumb.

I've said it before in this thread and I'll repeat: Walmart is TERRIFIC, and does TONS of good for millions of people. Folks who used to have to eat ramen and rice can afford burgers sometimes. Some who used to have to endure the heat can afford a nice fan. Shame the hell on THEM, right?

It's impossible to do this
:rolleyes:

enough. I think I picked up an AC window unit this week for the Grand Son cheaper @ Home Depot than Wal mart

[AME3]

If the company is successful or dosn't have a union controlling it then it's EVIL, right AF? See, how simple it is...

If it's
Similar.

[Kluge]

Similar.

Cheap out! My personal research brings me to the conclusion that Monsanto is worse. We also have little choice but to use/consume Monsanto's products...we still have the option to not shop at Wal Mart.


If the company is successful or dosn't have a union controlling it then it's EVIL, right AF? See, how simple it is...

If it's

Personally, I don't have an issue with WalMart's success, and I'm certainly not pro-union, but there are genuine issues with WalMart that should be addressed.

[PierzStyx]

Wal Marx is an atrocious company, one that embodies all the very worst of the corporate/government/globalist complex that we are living under.

I do not shop there and encourage everybody that I can to not spend a dime there, either.

I understand why you say that. But I think you're looking at the symptom, not the problem. The problem isn't Wal-Mart's corporatism. That is a symptom. The problem is the corrupt government interventionism that causes/inspires these businesses to get involved in the first place. Solve that issue and the reasons you hate Wal-Mart will solve itself.

[LibertyEagle]

Still just a symptom of the core problem rather than the problem itself.

Congress is so beholden to corporatist special interests it's like they bend themselves over the desk and drop trau and scream "GIMME that biiiiiig money!" You think a giant like WalMart is going to turn and look the other way?

WalMart doesn't have to pressure government to do anything. They probably have 400 Congress-critters lined up on their knees every day applying lip gloss. Of course they are going to take advantage, the shareholders would fire the board for gross incompetence if they didn't.

WalMart is not the problem, it's just the symptom. The problems run much deeper.

True, but why reward those companies doing the bribing?

[PierzStyx]

True, but why reward those companies doing the bribing?

Why punish myself for something that is ultimately rooted in government and not the market?

[Anti Federalist]

I understand why you say that. But I think you're looking at the symptom, not the problem. The problem isn't Wal-Mart's corporatism. That is a symptom. The problem is the corrupt government interventionism that causes/inspires these businesses to get involved in the first place. Solve that issue and the reasons you hate Wal-Mart will solve itself.

You address the symptom by not doing business with them.

[Henry Rogue]

corporate/government/globalist
Remove the middle, and the rest wither away. Remove Walmart and it is replaced with another just like it.


I do not shop there and encourage everybody that I can to not spend a dime there, either.
Nothing wrong with protest, provided we all have the Freedom to choose where and what we purchase.

[Weston White]

No, see that is were this small group of apparent Walmart supporters (e.g., AME3, Ender, Henry Rogue, PierzStyx, et al) are very sadly mistaken. Walmart is not representative of the free markets, not at all. Walmart is however, representative of politic-cronyism. Walmart lobbies local and state governments for eminent domain abuses, tax breaks, business buyouts, etc. Walmart is the very problem that is systemic in corporate oligarchies.

Walmart has now set the standard for the last of the remaining national chains; hence, in order for them to compete with Walmart they are compelled to play its “game” otherwise they will surely fall behind and go under, moreover, they are all obligated to the whim of their shareholders, just as are Walmart’s manufacturers and vendors. Walmart is all about internationalism, there is nothing American about this conglomerate, nothing whatsoever.

Walmart is yet another all too worthless “too big to fail”, all they do is mistreat their employees, while entirely abusing the free market system (capitalism), in selling cheap, imported toxic junk to the masses of the many nations they have sacked. And no Kmart did not infatuate the present moral abuses and dangers that Walmart rives. Also, the arguments in support of slave-labor are entirely erroneous.

I will not ever again shop at Walmart (I have not since 2007), just like I will never-ever purchase any Apple products (or shop at Costco, Sam’s Club, etc.) And yes, personally I will always feel great about that.

[PierzStyx]

You address the symptom by not doing business with them.

But you don't. You remove Wal-Mart without removing the actual cause all you'll get is another "Wal-Mart" springing up to take its place. It'd be like taking Tylenol to cure your headache when you have a tumor. In a free market you'd be absolutely right, but that is not the case.

That said, I know you're working to solve the problem as well. So protest on.

[AME3]

Good points. I respect Walmart for selling ammo and weapons. Although I am not fond of their policies, like having to be escorted out the door by an associate when purchasing a firearm and having to pay for the ammo at the sports counter. Many moons ago, I stopped buisiness with Kmart because they stopped selling firearms or ammo.
Remove the middle, and the rest wither away. Remove Walmart and it is replaced with another just like it.


Nothing wrong with protest, provided we all have the Freedom to choose where and what we purchase.

[Origanalist]

I will not ever again shop at Walmart (I have not since 2007), just like I will never-ever purchase any Apple products ........

So what brands would you encourage for computers etc.?

[Weston White]

Okay, here's the deal. There are some damn freakin' poor people in this world. In my state. In my goddamned TOWN. Our neck of the woods has been suffering through a SEVERE heatwave for about the past week now.

What any of you hating so much on Walmart are saying, in effect, is this.

"Hey, you poor people! I know without Walmart, you'd not be able to afford that fan, or that window ac unit. Tough SHIT. If you buy that CHEAP CRAP at Walmart you are evil and a sinner, supporter of slave labor!"

It's ... classist, or something. Or just dumb.

I've said it before in this thread and I'll repeat: Walmart is TERRIFIC, and does TONS of good for millions of people. Folks who used to have to eat ramen and rice can afford burgers sometimes. Some who used to have to endure the heat can afford a nice fan. Shame the hell on THEM, right?

It's impossible to do this
:rolleyes:

enough.

If it wasn’t for places like Walmart, inciting the shipment of the vast majority of American work overseas then your concerns (as you have raised them) would not even be an issue.

[cindy25]

lol didnt expect to find WM hate here... goods are gonna be made in china no matter who buys them. If it was a mom and pop store the only difference is you would pay more for the same chinese stuff. This article is so full of crap I just don't feel like going through it all with responses.

walmart is a benefit to the US economy.

It is .gov policy that is the enemy.

its not the China factor; every business , large or small, sells products from China. its that Wal-Mart is subsidized by the government in that their employees are so low paid they could not survive without government handouts (Food stamps, medicaid)

[PierzStyx]

No, see that is were this small group of apparent Walmart supporters (e.g., AME3, Ender, Henry Rogue, PierzStyx, et al) are very sadly mistaken. Walmart is not representative of the free markets, not at all. Walmart is however, representative of politic-cronyism. Walmart lobbies local and state governments for eminent domain abuses, tax breaks, business buyouts, etc. Walmart is the very problem that is systemic in corporate oligarchies.

Again all symptomatic problems, not the disease itself. That Wal-Mart takes advantage of this is not suprising. But the issue you have is government trying to regulate business, regulations Wal-Mart takes advantage of. But don't you see teh issue is then government and not Wal-Mart?

Walmart has now set the standard for the last of the remaining national chains; hence, in order for them to compete with Walmart they are compelled to play its “game” otherwise they will surely fall behind and go under, moreover, they are all obligated to the whim of their shareholders, just as are Walmart’s manufacturers and vendors. Walmart is all about internationalism, there is nothing American about this conglomerate, nothing whatsoever.

I'm all for international markets. Unregulated international free markets would be the best thing that could happen for the world. Lets make every place Hong Kong! Wal-Mart's game is producing a cheaper product that also satisfies it's customers quality desires. If it does so by producing/buying from China, well to quote Dr. Paul, "That's great."

Walmart is yet another all too worthless “too big to fail”, all they do is mistreat their employees, while entirely abusing the free market system (capitalism), in selling cheap, imported toxic junk to the masses of the many nations they have sacked. And no Kmart did not infatuate the present moral abuses and dangers that Walmart rives. Also, the arguments in support of slave-labor are entirely erroneous.

Again, every employee of Wal-Mart is paid a wage they agree on. It is not slave labor. Your insistence it is is pure idiocy. Too big to fail? What si your evidence? Wal-Mart has received no bail outs. In fact it hasn't needed them. That is what happens when you get so many customers.

I will not ever again shop at Walmart (I have not since 2007), just like I will never-ever purchase any Apple products (or shop at Costco, Sam’s Club, etc.) And yes, personally I will always feel great about that.

Good for you. Yay. Woo. you get a golden star. Feel good about yourself. Who am I to stop you?





So trying to understand your idiocy, I take "slave labor" to mean sweatshops and low wages? Well my response is this,"Sweatshops are good for the poor in third world countries."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxBzKkWo0mo&feature=player_embedded

[Weston White]

But you don't. You remove Wal-Mart without removing the actual cause all you'll get is another "Wal-Mart" springing up to take its place. It'd be like taking Tylenol to cure your headache when you have a tumor. In a free market you'd be absolutely right, but that is not the case.

That said, I know you're working to solve the problem as well. So protest on.

Then even still, you do not do business with whatever takes its place, until they start to catch on and realize that you cannot sell slavery in America, while lobbying the government for professional favoritism, period. End of discussion.

[PierzStyx]

its not the China factor; every business , large or small, sells products from China. its that Wal-Mart is subsidized by the government in that their employees are so low paid they could not survive without government handouts (Food stamps, medicaid)

Sure they could. I know. My family did it. Again its government policies such as food stamps, mandatory wages, and dollar devaluation that causes the issue you're addressing. Without them the companies couldn't pay wages so low you can't live off of them because no one would work for them and their company would fail.

[PierzStyx]

Then even still, you do not do business with whatever takes its place, until they start to catch on and realize that you cannot sell slavery in America, while lobbying the government for professional favoritism, period. End of discussion.

You obviously do not understand that socialism is not based on your consent.


Also, you're looking at the problem wrong. Wal-Mart does not force teh government to obey it. It takes advantage of programs the government already runs. Get rid of the programs and you'll solve the issue of Wal-Mart's bad parts. Get rid of Wal-Mart and another will always take its place BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE CHEAP STUFF. You're whole thought process is a dead end. You are actually accomplishing nothing. But if it makes you feel better-carry on.

[Weston White]

You obviously do not understand that socialism is not based on your consent.

1. Nor, is our United States of America socialist. We are a commonwealth republic.
2. PierzStyz, you are seriously conceited in both your support of Walmart and of slave-labor.

[AME3]

Wow, whatb a truly great great man you are! Not since 2007!
No, see that is were this small group of apparent Walmart supporters (e.g., AME3, Ender, Henry Rogue, PierzStyx, et al) are very sadly mistaken. Walmart is not representative of the free markets, not at all. Walmart is however, representative of politic-cronyism. Walmart lobbies local and state governments for eminent domain abuses, tax breaks, business buyouts, etc. Walmart is the very problem that is systemic in corporate oligarchies.

Walmart has now set the standard for the last of the remaining national chains; hence, in order for them to compete with Walmart they are compelled to play its “game” otherwise they will surely fall behind and go under, moreover, they are all obligated to the whim of their shareholders, just as are Walmart’s manufacturers and vendors. Walmart is all about internationalism, there is nothing American about this conglomerate, nothing whatsoever.

Walmart is yet another all too worthless “too big to fail”, all they do is mistreat their employees, while entirely abusing the free market system (capitalism), in selling cheap, imported toxic junk to the masses of the many nations they have sacked. And no Kmart did not infatuate the present moral abuses and dangers that Walmart rives. Also, the arguments in support of slave-labor are entirely erroneous.

I will not ever again shop at Walmart (I have not since 2007), just like I will never-ever purchase any Apple products (or shop at Costco, Sam’s Club, etc.) And yes, personally I will always feel great about that.

[Henry Rogue]

Walmart lobbies local and state governments for eminent domain abuses, tax breaks, business buyouts, etc.
I agree, and have stated so. A lot of companies lobby gov. and they have done so along time before Walmart.

[misean]

I'm kind of surprised that this is being debated. I think you would be hard pressed to find too many free market economists who are anti-Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart and Apple for the matter (just saw some anti-Apple tripe) represent what is right and working with this country.

Here are the Mises Institute articles for Wal-Mart (all positive)
http://mises.org/daily/1151
http://mises.org/daily/2377
http://mises.org/daily/2219/
http://mises.org/daily/5405

[GunnyFreedom]

its not the China factor; every business , large or small, sells products from China. its that Wal-Mart is subsidized by the government in that their employees are so low paid they could not survive without government handouts (Food stamps, medicaid)

The two businesses I ran, one I was operations manager of a mid-level distributor of specialty hose and coupling parts, and the other a specialty candy manufacturer, neither sourced any components or parts of components from China. The fluid and hydraulic parts distributor had some international sourcing, like India, but the one time we went to China (Taiwan, not my decision) out of desperation the hoses all had dry rot and the machining on the couplings was garbage so we never sold those parts, and we never went there again. The candy company was 100% made in the USA. So the blanket statement that "every business , large or small, sells products from China." is simply not true.

[Henry Rogue]

I'm kind of surprised that this is being debated. I think you would be hard pressed to find too many free market economists who are anti-Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart and Apple for the matter (just saw some anti-Apple tripe) represent what is right and working with this country.

Here are the Mises Institute articles for Wal-Mart (all positive)
http://mises.org/daily/1151
http://mises.org/daily/2377
http://mises.org/daily/2219/
http://mises.org/daily/5405
I got my first neg rep for stating what I've learned at Mises.org

[misean]

Economics In One Lesson, by Henry Hazlitt
http://www.fee.org/library/books/economics-in-one-lesson/#0.1_L12
Well worth reading.

Bump.

[AME3]

Some people have to whine, complain and critisize or they just aren't happy. Thanks for the truth misean, which should put this ridiculous matter to rest. But, I have a feeling it won't....
I'm kind of surprised that this is being debated. I think you would be hard pressed to find too many free market economists who are anti-Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart and Apple for the matter (just saw some anti-Apple tripe) represent what is right and working with this country.

Here are the Mises Institute articles for Wal-Mart (all positive)
http://mises.org/daily/1151
http://mises.org/daily/2377
http://mises.org/daily/2219/
http://mises.org/daily/5405

[Weston White]

Wow, whatb a truly great great man you are! Not since 2007!


Yup, abso-fruit-ly!

[Weston White]

I got my first neg rep for stating what I've learned at Mises.org

No, you are confusing the several core issues, while attempting to roll them up into a nicely presented Austrian economics package. Largely, economic schools have to do with varying statistical or experimental models and not individual morality, ethics, and governmental intervention.

Furthermore, quoting from Wikipedia on the subject of Austrian economics: “The Austrian theory of capital and interest was created by Böhm-Bawerk. He created the theory as a response to Marx's theories on capital. Böhm-Bawerk's theory centered on the untenability of the labor theory of value in the light of the transformation problem. He also argued that capitalists do not exploit workers; they accommodate workers by providing them with income well in advance of the revenue from the output they helped to produce. …”

[PierzStyx]

1. Nor, is our United States of America socialist. We are a commonwealth republic.
2. PierzStyz, you are seriously conceited in both your support of Walmart and of slave-labor.

1. We used to be a common wealth. But I don't know if you've noticed the rampant corporatism, the socialized healthcare, and the fact that the government now runs such business giants as GM and Chrysler directly. We're socialist in everything but name. The Republic has been on death watch for a while now. And the governmentb really just killed it. Welcome to the USSRA.

2. Again, slave labor? You seriously are that stupid aren't you?

[Henry Rogue]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsnmM4V5lO8&feature=player_detailpage

[AME3]

If Weston keeps insisting on the USA being a common wealth republic then he is indeed "lost". Workin for the man is often coined slave labor so I say he deserves a pass there...
:D
1. We used to be a common wealth. But I don't know if you've noticed the rampant corporatism, the socialized healthcare, and the fact that the government now runs such business giants as GM and Chrysler directly. We're socialist in everything but name. The Republic has been on death watch for a while now. And the governmentb really just killed it. Welcome to the USSRA.

2. Again, slave labor? You seriously are that stupid aren't you?

[Weston White]

Negative, your arguments are steeped in complete fallacy. Moreover, two wrongs do not make a right.

And when the people of first and second world nations take explicit advantage of the people of third and fourth world nations, they are not helping them in any decent meaning of the word; it is nothing else than the orchestrated extortion of such nation’s labor force and natural resources. It is as a fact, industrialized slavery.

Pointedly, already your rebuttals have turned to insults; ergo, you have realized that you have entirley lost this debate. You are just too much of a Walmart to admit defeat.

[Henry Rogue]

No, you are confusing the several core issues, while attempting to roll them up into a nicely presented Austrian economics package. Largely, economic schools have to do with varying statistical or experimental models and not individual morality, ethics, and governmental intervention.

Furthermore, quoting from Wikipedia on the subject of Austrian economics: “The Austrian theory of capital and interest was created by Böhm-Bawerk. He created the theory as a response to Marx's theories on capital. Böhm-Bawerk's theory centered on the untenability of the labor theory of value in the light of the transformation problem. He also argued that capitalists do not exploit workers; they accommodate workers by providing them with income well in advance of the revenue from the output they helped to produce. …”
Clearly from this post you don't know anything about Austrian Economics. Austrian Economics does not use statistical or experimental models. It uses Praxeology. The Austrian school began with Carl Menger his two disciples Fredrich von Wieser and Eugen von Bohm-Bawerk refined subjective theory in the areas of cost and capital and interest. Two important modern theorist are Ludwigg von Mises and Friedrich von Hayek. Mises gain fame in the 1920s with his challenge that socialism was totally impossible in a modern economy because of its lack of market prices. Both Mises and Hayek expanded the thought with there explanation of cyclical swings in business. Hayek focused on "knowledge in society" and the need for coordinated action. The Two students of Mises, Israel Kirzner and Murry Rothbard have made significant contributions to the understanding and elaboration of Austrian analysis.

[Weston White]

Clearly from this post you don't know anything about Austrian Economics. Austrian Economics does not use statistical or experimental models. It uses Praxeology.

Clearly, you are lacking in your ability to read contextually. The Austrian School advocates the model of laissez-faire, a highly honorable notion to which Walmart is thoroughly designed to quell. Walmart is not at all about free-markets, it is all about complete domination of the markets on a geographical level (all the while being aided and abetted by career politicians).

[Henry Rogue]

I don't care if you buy at walmart or not. I don't care if walmart has success or fails. I do care if they gain an unfair advantage through government force. I don't want the government to bail them out, that means we are bailing them out. You see walmart as manipulating the government to create its monopoly. I see the government as manipulating everything and everyone in the economy, resulting in a monopoly. I asked you and others questions. I got no answers, all I got was a little red rectangle. Besides boycott, what is your solutions?

[king_nothing_]

Clearly, you are lacking in your ability to read contextually.
No, he was precisely right. The first paragraph of your post which he quoted clearly demonstrates how little you know about Austrian economics. The second sentence, in particular:

"Largely, economic schools have to do with varying statistical or experimental models and not individual morality, ethics, and governmental intervention."

...could not possibly be more wrong in regards to the Austrian school. Everyone here who is adequately versed in the basic foundation of the Austrian school can see that you don't know what you're talking about. You may as well stop while you're...well, before you get further behind than you already are.

And for future reference, people who are actually versed in Austrian economics generally don't grab quotes from the Wikipedia entry on Austrian economics when engaged in a discussion about it.

[Weston White]

As a few ideas:

1. As a consumer, boycott them and inform others about the atrocities taking place, while encouraging them to also boycott, while providing reasonable alternatives.

2. As a state resident encourage your local and state governments to cease their rapid favoritism and fawning towards such companies.

3. As an American citizen call for Congress to draft new legislation that either heavily taxes such practices, or makes it outright illegal, or that requires such companies to treat their foreign employees as American citizens who are working abroad, e.g., imposing minimum wage and laboring standards upon them, etc., or that otherwise requires such companies to submit their payrolls to a third-party advocate’s office for foreign employees who then reviews their employees wages and expenses and informs a federal bureaucracy of any underpayments, who will then impose an additional penalty tax against the corporation and either turn that outstanding sum over the government of the respective employee's nation or direct-deliver the employees a check for the difference, depending on whatever treaties set in place, also charging the offending companies a separate percentage fine to cover all the additional expenses incurred.

4. As an activist circulate flyers and the like, and protest out front of the business, write to local media, government, etc., along with other activists whenever able. Also push for letter writing campaigns directly to the offices and officers of the business itself.

[Weston White]

No, he was precisely right. The first paragraph of your post which he quoted clearly demonstrates how little you know about Austrian economics. The second sentence, in particular:

"Largely, economic schools have to do with varying statistical or experimental models and not individual morality, ethics, and governmental intervention."

...could not possibly be more wrong in regards to the Austrian school. Everyone here who is adequately versed in the basic foundation of the Austrian school can see that you don't know what you're talking about. You may as well stop while you're...well, before you get further behind than you already are.

And for future reference, people who are actually versed in Austrian economics generally don't grab quotes from the Wikipedia entry on Austrian economics when engaged in a discussion about it.

No, you are plainly wrong in each one of your falsehoods. Again, you are taking what I wrote entirely out of context, even after I had corrected the above poster's incorrect insinuation. This makes you doubly a fool.

Also, Wikipedia is a rather easy source to quickly quote or cite to for information, while also being mostly correct in the content of its articles. And if the quotation, I referenced to is not in fact correct, thus far neither of you have bothered to explain how so. While, the lot of you, rather seem to enjoy tossing insults about.


* See you are taking my prior statement turning it into: “Largely, the Austrian School of economics has to do with varying statistical or experimental models and not individual morality, ethics, and governmental intervention.”

This is very, very wrong and misleading of you both. While, yes the Austrian School uses models, just not conventional guided models that are based upon mathematics, statistical theories, or experimental concepts. It is instead dependant largely upon human nature and interaction.

Which is neither here nor there. As Walmart is wholly incompatible with Austrian logic. My prior points are withstanding.

[PierzStyx]

Negative, your arguments are steeped in complete fallacy. Moreover, two wrongs do not make a right.

And when the people of first and second world nations take explicit advantage of the people of third and fourth world nations, they are not helping them in any decent meaning of the word; it is nothing else than the orchestrated extortion of such nation’s labor force and natural resources. It is as a fact, industrialized slavery.

Pointedly, already your rebuttals have turned to insults; ergo, you have realized that you have entirley lost this debate. You are just too much of a Walmart to admit defeat.

I've rebutted your every post. That stupidity is noted as stupidity doesn't change that.

Also it is not "taking advantage" of people in other places to pay them a lower wage. Wages are based on local market and local costs. If the local costs demands less to live on then the local market is not going to pay exorbitant wages. And neither should it as that creates inflation. In fact if you started paying some of these countries American wages it'd cause hyper-inflation as business raise costs drastically to meet the now larger amount of money the few have. This would not only cause ungodly inflation, but it would shut those who make less in local businesses out of competition, cause job loss, result in joblessness, and increase the amount of the absolute poor. In fact it can easily be argued that sweatshops are good for their local economies. Again I post:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxBzKkWo0mo&feature=player_embedded

[heavenlyboy34]

:) It's called free market capitalism, before Walmart it was K-mart before that it was Sears Roebuck....
They employ more people at better wages than the mom and pops too
We have mom and pops all over the place around here too, and the smart ones are holding their own.
I agree with Gunny in regards to what I think he was referring to, that we are wasting our hard earned money on crap and overfilling our landfills with it...most of that's comin outa the Walmart...
Cheap throwaway bikes, toys etc. Lost our sense of value and conservation, we have.
So the prob isn't Walmart, it's us...
Exactly! People like to distort things and say the politicians reflect "us", but in reality it's markets that reflect "us". Markets are skewed as it is, but it's still more accurate to say the markets reflect what people really think than who's elected.

[PierzStyx]

As a few ideas:

1. As a consumer, boycott them and inform others about the atrocities taking place, while encouraging them to also boycott, while providing reasonable alternatives.

2. As a state resident encourage your local and state governments to cease their rapid favoritism and fawning towards such companies.

3. As an American citizen call for Congress to draft new legislation that either heavily taxes such practices, or makes it outright illegal, or that requires such companies to treat their foreign employees as American citizens who are working abroad, e.g., imposing minimum wage and laboring standards upon them, etc., or that otherwise requires such companies to submit their payrolls to a third-party advocate’s office for foreign employees who then reviews their employees wages and expenses and informs a federal bureaucracy of any underpayments, who will then impose an additional penalty tax against the corporation and either turn that outstanding sum over the government of the respective employee's nation or direct-deliver the employees a check for the difference, depending on whatever treaties set in place, also charging the offending companies a separate percentage fine to cover all the additional expenses incurred.

4. As an activist circulate flyers and the like, and protest out front of the business, write to local media, government, etc., along with other activists whenever able. Also push for letter writing campaigns directly to the offices and officers of the business itself.

So...you want to increase government regulation on the free market? Because that is all number three is talking about.

And, i'm done talking with you. It is obvious you have no idea what you're talking about. You can't even argue your points, just mindlessly repeat them. You simply aren't wasting anymore of my life on.

[Mani]

I just want to point out things from the Asian side.

China is not the cheap labor place anymore. That title is long gone. They may still be a manufacturing powerhouse, but no way are they the cheapest producer anymore, not at all. China is going through a lot of changes.

In fact, they are becoming a major consumer, and within a decade or so will be a bigger consumer then the USA, so maybe they will be agreeing with you all about buying too much junk and complaining about it.

The low cost labor camps are now in a couple other Asian countries and I have a friend who works for a LARGE brand name clothing company, who's in manufacturing and production and she is telling me it is SO HARD to work with some of these so called "sweat shops". WHY? BECAUSE THEY ARE DOING SO MUCH BUSINESS they can pretty much tell tons of companies to FUCK off or do things THEIR way. These so called poor sweat shops are cherry picking the best brands to deal with and if anyone gives them trouble there are a hundred more in line.

My friend has a tough time with these places, because she's at THEIR MERCY. These so called poor sweat shops have so much business from so many of all your favorite brands in the USA malls and big box stores, that these "sweat shops" call the shots. I hardly see this as 1st world consumption and 1st world companies taking advantage and exploiting 3rd world people.

It's a global marketplace, every major brand or company is searching for the low cost producer and when those low cost manufacturing "sweat shops" are discovered, ALL the brands go running to them and those "sweat shops" are sitting pretty.

I can't speak for every brand or every industry. I'm sure some people are definitely being exploited and some sweat shops are horrendous and I feel bad when that happens. However, it's not so cut and dry. There are plenty of low cost asian industrial factories (that are cheaper than China) that we blindly call "sweat Shops" but yet hold all the leverage. I've heard about it where the US company will demand a certain amount of production and the factory just says ahmmm NO, we're not going to do that, not happy? Find someone else. And the US company just replies, "Pretty please?"

That doesn't sound like US companies exploiting anyone.

[Weston White]

I've rebutted your every post. That stupidity is noted as stupidity doesn't change that.

Also it is not "taking advantage" of people in other places to pay them a lower wage. Wages are based on local market and local costs. If the local costs demands less to live on then the local market is not going to pay exorbitant wages. And neither should it as that creates inflation. In fact if you started paying some of these countries American wages it'd cause hyper-inflation as business raise costs drastically to meet the now larger amount of money the few have. This would not only cause ungodly inflation, but it would shut those who make less in local businesses out of competition, cause job loss, result in joblessness, and increase the amount of the absolute poor. In fact it can easily be argued that sweatshops are good for their local economies.

Wow, as they say, there is absolutely no sense in arguing with a "Forrest Gump". And if logic happened to move backwards, it would run smack dab into you.

[Weston White]

So...you want to increase government regulation on the free market? Because that is all number three is talking about.

And, i'm done talking with you. It is obvious you have no idea what you're talking about. You can't even argue your points, just mindlessly repeat them. You simply aren't wasting anymore of my life on.

As to my few points, you keep ignoring them, while arguing that I am a know nothing imbecile.

I want businesses to be ethically responsible (regardless if local, national, or international), and if they cannot do that on their own then the federal government, whose task it is to do so, needs to step in and find that moral ground for them to follow.

And just what in the world do you think got us into this entire mess in the first place? Could it have been things such as: CAFTA, MEFTA, NAFTA, TAFTA, WTO, UN, et al? Are these not the very regulations to which you speak of being so against?

Do you furthermore deny that businesses such as Walmart have not worked to intentionally cheapen, erode, or otherwise destroy free markets?

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

As to my few points, you keep ignoring them, while arguing that I am a know nothing imbecile.

I want businesses to be ethically responsible (regardless if local, national, or international), and f they cannot do that on their own then the federal government, whose task it is to do so, needs to step in and find that moral ground for them to follow.

And just what in the world do you think got us into this entire mess in the first place? Could it have been things such as: CAFTA, MEFTA, NAFTA, TAFTA, WTO, UN, et al?

Do you furthermore deny that businesses such as Walmart have not worked to intentionally cheapen, erode, or otherwise destroy free markets?

While these are certainly not Free-Trade agreements, protectionists latch onto them as if they are, attacking straw man and then advocated absolutely devastating economic policy that reduce many many more to poverty and enrich the so-called people you're 'after'. In any event, the problem certainly is not these agreements as bad as they are (though they do contribute), the problem is a Federal Government that you would empower even more. You want to know why jobs are going overseas? It's because the policies of the Federal Government (that is, regulatory, monetary, tax, mandates, patriot act, etc. etc.) are cost-prohibited any business to hire an American worker, who are extremely expensive. If you want to subsidize the american worker just because you are xenophobic towards anyone not American, go ahead, but don't use the Government to force everyone else to do so just because it's a personal value of yours.

[Weston White]

That doesn't sound like US companies exploiting anyone.

They are exploiting the foreign workforces, not the company itself, per se. Do you really think the suicide-netting around the Apple iPod buildings is for upper management and their executives? Not it is for their overworked, neglected, abused, and underpaid subordinates.

This problem is epidemic. Do you think De Beers gives a care about the people or the resources it exploits out from South Africa, or for that matter Coca Cola its employees, etc?

[Weston White]

While these are certainly not Free-Trade agreements, protectionists latch onto them as if they are, attacking straw man and then advocated absolutely devastating economic policy that reduce many many more to poverty and enrich the so-called people you're 'after'. In any event, the problem certainly is not these agreements as bad as they are (though they do contribute), the problem is a Federal Government that you would empower even more. You want to know why jobs are going overseas? It's because the policies of the Federal Government (that is, regulatory, monetary, tax, mandates, patriot act, etc. etc.) are cost-prohibited any business to hire an American worker, who are extremely expensive. If you want to subsidize the american worker just because you are xenophobic towards anyone not American, go ahead, but don't use the Government to force everyone else to do so just because it's a personal value of yours.

Excuse yourself. Have you ever read America's founding principles? Well, perhaps you should make the time.

And I don't even know where you are coming up with xenophobia from -you must of dug to China to reach for that one.

And yes those are FTA.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Excuse yourself. Have you ever read America's founding principles? Well, perhaps you should make the time.

And I don't even know where you are coming up with xenophobia from -you must of dug to China to reach for that one.

And yes those are FTA.
The two groups of misinformed people I've learned are the most stubborn in their ignorance - the IP'ers and the Protectionists. Excuse me while I go watch the Universe from History Channel. Don't have the patience to waste my time in futile efforts.

[WilliamShrugged]

As a few ideas:


3. As an American citizen call for Congress to draft new legislation that either heavily taxes such practices, or makes it outright illegal, or that requires such companies to treat their foreign employees as American citizens who are working abroad, e.g., imposing minimum wage and laboring standards upon them, etc., or that otherwise requires such companies to submit their payrolls to a third-party advocate’s office for foreign employees who then reviews their employees wages and expenses and informs a federal bureaucracy of any underpayments, who will then impose an additional penalty tax against the corporation and either turn that outstanding sum over the government of the respective employee's nation or direct-deliver the employees a check for the difference, depending on whatever treaties set in place, also charging the offending companies a separate percentage fine to cover all the additional expenses incurred.

4. As an activist circulate flyers and the like, and protest out front of the business, write to local media, government, etc., along with other activists whenever able. Also push for letter writing campaigns directly to the offices and officers of the business itself.


Really???

[Weston White]

The two groups of misinformed people I've learned are the most stubborn in their ignorance - the IP'ers and the Protectionists. Excuse me while I go watch the Universe from History Channel. Don't have the patience to waste my time in futile efforts.

Oh yes, the History Channel, now there is a very reliable source of information to be consuming. Alright then, that would seem to be right up your alley, enjoy.

[Weston White]

Really???

OK, now I see, the problem is not with corporations such much. It is government exerted authority. Admit it all of you are anarchists.

And yes, what better way to ensure that America's disappearing jobs and high quality products come back home and remain here to stay?


* With all of that nonsense aside, I would surmise that predominately the problem is that there is no more pride or ethics remaining in corporations; effectively, all that remains is their bottom-line. For example, the manly Hummer was recently to be sold to China (but the deal fell through and its product line was instead winded-down), keeping in mind that this is a vehicle that is supposed to be representative of the great achievements of our own U.S. Military technologies (Humvees), it was to be turned over to foreign control. And now, those classy luxury vehicles know ad Cadillac are foreign made (further noting that Cadillac was the result of a separation involving Henry Ford), as was also to be the faith of Saab (though neither did that deal work out).

[WilliamShrugged]

OK, now I see, the problem is not with corporations such much. It is government exerted authority. Admit it all of you are anarchists.



Yep...

[Weston White]

Yep...

...And there is not any point in arguing with that at all, now is there (rhetorical).

[chudrockz]

As to my few points, you keep ignoring them, while arguing that I am a know nothing imbecile.

I want businesses to be ethically responsible (regardless if local, national, or international), and if they cannot do that on their own then the federal government, whose task it is to do so, needs to step in and find that moral ground for them to follow.

And just what in the world do you think got us into this entire mess in the first place? Could it have been things such as: CAFTA, MEFTA, NAFTA, TAFTA, WTO, UN, et al? Are these not the very regulations to which you speak of being so against?

Do you furthermore deny that businesses such as Walmart have not worked to intentionally cheapen, erode, or otherwise destroy free markets?

You've been on this site for nearly five years now, and can still post something like that? Most people can be here five MINUTES and realize how silly that is.

[LibertyEagle]

As to my few points, you keep ignoring them, while arguing that I am a know nothing imbecile.

I want businesses to be ethically responsible (regardless if local, national, or international), and if they cannot do that on their own then the federal government, whose task it is to do so, needs to step in and find that moral ground for them to follow.

And just what in the world do you think got us into this entire mess in the first place? Could it have been things such as: CAFTA, MEFTA, NAFTA, TAFTA, WTO, UN, et al? Are these not the very regulations to which you speak of being so against?
But, Weston, it was the federal government who gave us all those managed-trade regulations. Why would you trust them to regulate corporate morality? That doesn't make sense to me.


Do you furthermore deny that businesses such as Walmart have not worked to intentionally cheapen, erode, or otherwise destroy free markets?
Sure and I am no fan of WalMart and do not shop there. But, the source of the problem is the government. It is the government that encourages, through their legislation, the destruction of free market capitalism.

Note: By the way, I am most certainly not an ancap.

[tod evans]

Repeat until it makes sense to you;

More government is never the answer.

More government is never the answer.

More government is never the answer.

etc.

[LibertyEagle]

You obviously do not understand that socialism is not based on your consent.


Also, you're looking at the problem wrong. Wal-Mart does not force teh government to obey it. It takes advantage of programs the government already runs. Get rid of the programs and you'll solve the issue of Wal-Mart's bad parts. Get rid of Wal-Mart and another will always take its place BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE CHEAP STUFF. You're whole thought process is a dead end. You are actually accomplishing nothing. But if it makes you feel better-carry on.

By that logic, we should all love Goldman Sachs, then, eh? I mean, they're just taking "advantage of programs the government already runs". I think the Federal Reserve fits in that category too, doesn't it? They derive their powers from laws passed by the federal government.

[KingNothing]

By that logic, we should all love Goldman Sachs, then, eh? I mean, they're just taking "advantage of programs the government already runs". I think the Federal Reserve fits in that category too, doesn't it? They derive their powers from laws passed by the federal government.

Well, there might be some truth to that. But it's also true that the Goldman Sachs has been engaging in regulatory capture and even then is operating in a gray area of legality. Further, what they've been doing can in no way be described as "moral."

Wal-Mart serves its customers well. If it didn't, it wouldn't be in business. Goldman Sachs uses shady techniques like HFT to steal money Office Space-style from traders. The two are not the same.

[KingNothing]

Note: By the way, I am most certainly not an ancap.

You say that like it's a bad thing, and not the ultimate goal and destination of mankind.

[torchbearer]

people vote with their dollars, and they keep voting for walmart.
i don't go to walmart, but it has to do with how many people are there. i do most of my shopping at krogers.

[misean]

W
Sachs uses shady techniques like HFT to steal money Office Space-style from traders. The two are not the same.

I'm not a fan of Goldman Sachs, but HFT isn't shady. stealing or even bad for that matter.

[KingNothing]

I'm not a fan of Goldman Sachs, but HFT isn't shady. stealing or even bad for that matter.

Eh, I'll grant that it is not stealing. But it is a completely non-value-adding process.

[ShowMeLiberty]

Repeat until it makes sense to you;

More government is never the answer.

More government is never the answer.

More government is never the answer.

etc.

^This. +rep

[Weston White]

But, Weston, it was the federal government who gave us all those managed-trade regulations. Why would you trust them to regulate corporate morality? That doesn't make sense to me.


Sure and I am no fan of WalMart and do not shop there. But, the source of the problem is the government. It is the government that encourages, through their legislation, the destruction of free market capitalism.

Note: By the way, I am most certainly not an ancap.

That is because the vast majority of legislation having since been ratified was done so to favor one corporation over another or one industry over another, etc. Our government has been hijacked by a highly selective oligarchy; our American politicians are predominately puppets serving private interests over that of the less worthy populace. Slavery might have been abolished, but undoubtedly it has since been replaced with a new industrialized system of self-managing caste slavery; metaphorically, we are as chattel to the conglomerations, while our government functions as masters-in-command to the devoted protection of those very conglomerations. Such are the true core of problems, not well intended governmental (constitutional) regulations.

It is Walmart that plays through the vocals of the government like a finely tuned violin. The government is not otherwise beholden to the interests of corporations such as Walmart. It is for the government to keep corporations in check, otherwise the result will ultimately be that we are governed under a greedily corporatocracy focused on procuring only monopolization through internationalism and the like -as such is now vastly the case.

[GunnyFreedom]

That is because the vast majority of legislation having since been ratified was done so to favor one corporation over another or one industry over another, etc. Our government has been hijacked by a highly selective oligarchy; our American politicians are predominately puppets serving private interests over that of the less worthy populace. Slavery might have been abolished, but undoubtedly it has since been replaced with a new industrialized system of self-managing caste slavery; metaphorically, we are as chattel to the conglomerations, while our government functions as masters-in-command to the devoted protection of those very conglomerations. Such are the true core of problems, not well intended governmental (constitutional) regulations.

It is Walmart that plays through the vocals of the government like a finely tuned violin. The government is not otherwise beholden to the interests of corporations such as Walmart. It is for the government to keep corporations in check, otherwise the result will ultimately be that we are governed under a greedily corporatocracy focused on procuring only monopolization through internationalism and the like -as such is now vastly the case.

What in the world are "Constitutional Regulations?"

You do know that the word 'regulate' meant something quite different in 1787 than it does today, right?

[misean]

Eh, I'll grant that it is not stealing. But it is a completely non-value-adding process.


That's not even true. Mutual Funds that take longer term position (which is most and also what most people invest in) benefit. HFT have brought transaction costs and spreads down to nothing.

[tod evans]

This is a whole bunch of pretty words looking for government to fix itself........



That is because the vast majority of legislation having since been ratified was done so to favor one corporation over another or one industry over another, etc. Our government has been hijacked by a highly selective oligarchy; our American politicians are predominately puppets serving private interests over that of the less worthy populace. Slavery might have been abolished, but undoubtedly it has since been replaced with a new industrialized system of self-managing caste slavery; metaphorically, we are as chattel to the conglomerations, while our government functions as masters-in-command to the devoted protection of those very conglomerations. Such are the true core of problems, not well intended governmental (constitutional) regulations.

It is Walmart that plays through the vocals of the government like a finely tuned violin. The government is not otherwise beholden to the interests of corporations such as Walmart. It is for the government to keep corporations in check, otherwise the result will ultimately be that we are governed under a greedily corporatocracy focused on procuring only monopolization through internationalism and the like -as such is now vastly the case.

[donnay]

Useless emotionalism overall. and BTW I frakking LOVE Amazon. One of the last free markets in America. Where else can I get a NY Bestseller, highly acclaimed, award winning biography for 0.01? Nowhere.

The problem is, we do not have a free market. I wished people would understand that. It is the illusion of a free market. If we had a truly free market the people would be the regulators, not government! We have crony capitalism.

[Weston White]

Wal-Mart serves its customers well. If it didn't, it wouldn't be in business. Goldman Sachs uses shady techniques like HFT to steal money Office Space-style from traders. The two are not the same.

Really why? Their clients agreed to the arrangement/exchange didn't they? I mean, according to you that is all that really matters, is that there is some sort of agreed upon arrangement or exchange, so what if one party was wholly taking advantage of another, right? Such truly is a hypocritical take on morality.

And also that is false. Such companies do only themselves and their shareholders, as you say "well", not so for their customers. Levi, Nike, Apple, Cadillac, etc., are still selling their product lines for grossly overpriced amounts, retail prices do not go down even after they ship such jobs over seas; however, the products quality most certainly does.

And then there are companies such as Walmart that mostly sell cheap entirely useless products, which are manufactured largely with industrial waste and that break apart at the first sign of abuse or trouble.

Moreover, to what point is any of this if hardly anybody is working back home any longer that they cannot afford to purchase all of this worthless imported junk anyways. It truly is self-defeating.

And Walmart only dominates so because it has been shoved down everybody's throat, just as have been GMO, vaccinations, government terrorist and war propaganda, etc.

[Weston White]

What in the world are "Constitutional Regulations?"

You do know that the word 'regulate' meant something quite different in 1787 than it does today, right?

It means regulations (which are based upon corresponding statutes) that are within the granted breadth of our U.S. Constitution. Regulate means to regulate, it has always held the same definition.

[donnay]

:) It's called free market capitalism, before Walmart it was K-mart before that it was Sears Roebuck....
They employ more people at better wages than the mom and pops too
We have mom and pops all over the place around here too, and the smart ones are holding their own.
I agree with Gunny in regards to what I think he was referring to, that we are wasting our hard earned money on crap and overfilling our landfills with it...most of that's comin outa the Walmart...
Cheap throwaway bikes, toys etc. Lost our sense of value and conservation, we have.
So the prob isn't Walmart, it's us...

Planned Obsolesce.

Definition of 'Planned Obsolescence'
A manufacturing decision by a company to make consumer products in such a way that they become out-of-date or useless within a known time period. The main goal of this type of production is to ensure that consumers will have to buy the product multiple times, rather than only once. This naturally stimulates demand for an industry's products because consumers have to keep coming back again and again.

Products ranging from inexpensive light bulbs to high-priced goods such as cars and buildings are subject to planned obsolescence by manufacturers and producers.

Also known as "built-in obsolescence".

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/planned_obsolescence.asp#ixzz1zqfhGoEC


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bxzU1HFC7Q

[KingNothing]

The problem is, we do not have a free market. I wished people would understand that. It is the illusion of a free market. If we had a truly free market the people would be the regulators, not government! We have crony capitalism.

And, apparently, your solution to that is to further empower a captured government. Gotcha.

[KingNothing]

And then there are companies such as Walmart that mostly sell cheap entirely useless products, which are manufactured largely with industrial waste and that break apart at the first sign of abuse or trouble.


The tens of millions of people who buy products from Walmart probably disagree with your assessment. They made a decision to buy cheaper goods rather than going without. Who are you to criticize that line of thinking?



Moreover, to what point is any of this if hardly anybody is working back home any longer that they cannot afford to purchase all of this worthless imported junk anyways. It truly is self-defeating.


So you think we'd be better off without "imported junk" that companies like Walmart sell? Really?



And Walmart only dominates so because it has been shoved down everybody's throat, just as have been GMO, vaccinations, government terrorist and war propaganda, etc.

So you lump vaccinations in with war propaganda. I can't believe I wasted time responding in line to you.

[Weston White]

This is a whole bunch of pretty words looking for government to fix itself........

No, the people will just need to become aware and call upon the government to do so; they will need to become wise and take positions in public offices, for example. Tyranny does not rout and censure its own despotism, it holds only the propensity to manifest and fester its own blights.

[donnay]

Clearly, you are lacking in your ability to read contextually. The Austrian School advocates the model of laissez-faire, a highly honorable notion to which Walmart is thoroughly designed to quell. Walmart is not at all about free-markets, it is all about complete domination of the markets on a geographical level (all the while being aided and abetted by career politicians).

"You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Weston White again"

Thread winner!

It's one thing to think we are a free market, but it is another thing to think Wal-Marx is all about free market capitalism! Hillary Clinton was on the board of directors for 6 freakin' years. We all know she isn't for Free market capitalism! Wal-Marx is part of a political agenda that so many people fail to see.

[GunnyFreedom]

It means regulations (which are based upon corresponding statutes) that are within the granted breadth of our U.S. Constitution. Regulate means to regulate, it has always held the same definition.

Is that just what you personally feel like? Because it is the doctrine of original intent to use sources contemporary with your text to define words, and as it happens it is blatantly untrue. In 1787, 'to regulate' meant 'to make regular,' and did not carry the connotation of 'restricted by law' that it does today.

At the turn of the 19th century, phrases were common such as "a well-regulated watch" that meant it kept time well because it was 'made regular,' or 'properly functioning.' Up until about 1830-1840 the implication was that government would provide assistance to make something regular, such that the militia carried the same sort of canteens, same kind of powder etc. It was not until the regulation of weights and measures shifted from 'putting everyone on the same sheet of music' into 'making rules for everyone to follow that the modern connotation of regulate began to arise.

Nevertheless, let's assume for the sake of argument that you are correct, and that 'to regulate' has always meant for some bureaucratic unelected agency to write rules with the force of law.

Show me in the US Constitution, sir, chapter and verse, where the federal government is granted the authority for some bureaucratic unelected agency to write rules with the force of law.

I'll be waiting for your response. ;)

[Weston White]

And, apparently, your solution to that is to further empower a captured government. Gotcha.

As opposed to what, either (1) going along with it or (2) completely abolishing it into a state of anarchy?

[tod evans]

No, the people will just need to become aware ; they will need to become wise and take positions in public offices,

This much I can accept.


No, the people will just need to become aware and call upon the government to do so; they will need to become wise and take positions in public offices, for example. Tyranny does not rout and censure its own despotism, it holds only the propensity to manifest and fester its own blights.

As written I read this as kissing the kings ring, "call upon the government" specifically.

[donnay]

And, apparently, your solution to that is to further empower a captured government. Gotcha.

What? You make absolutely no sense. Our government has been hijacked--it does not include us, as it was set up. We need to take it back!!

[Weston White]

The tens of millions of people who buy products from Walmart probably disagree with your assessment. They made a decision to buy cheaper goods rather than going without. Who are you to criticize that line of thinking?



So you think we'd be better off without "imported junk" that companies like Walmart sell? Really?



So you lump vaccinations in with war propaganda. I can't believe I wasted time responding in line to you.

Don’t flatter yourself too much. Most all of those people either have no other real option (e.g., they have been financially castrated) or they are still totally and completely asleep and fail to grasp even a notion of the “bigger picture”.

It is not that they are making a conscientious or informed decision; it is that they have no other real option available to them or their family. The very same could be argued against those that vaccinate their children, if families knew the risks involved or the truth about the chemicals and process involved in making these concoctions they would be doing this to their children? Moreover, do you think the average vagrant wants to eat others leftovers or to sleep on the sidewalk?

Yes, I do, products should be well made, of proper quality, sturdy, and should not contain toxic chemicals that are harmful to the user over time, such as lead paint for example. And perhaps most importantly the employees involved should be reasonably compensated for their efforts in manufacturing and delivering the products and the costs for purchase should as well be of a reasonable price at retail.

And yes, those are clean easy examples that are relatable to the subject-matter (in more ways than one).

[Weston White]

This much I can accept.



As written I read this as kissing the kings ring, "call upon the government" specifically.

lol, OK, perhaps it sounds that way, a bit. :rolleyes:

[GunnyFreedom]

From Samuel Johnson's 1755 Dictionary of the English Language,

Note that in all the senses but one, that being definition #2 of "to Regulate" we are talking about processes that make things regular rather than edicts, and even #2 of "to Regulate" does not imply dictatorial force but constant attention and guidance towards an ultimate goal:

http://i47.tinypic.com/eb7msh.png


To Regulate

1. To adjust by rule or method - "Nature, in the production of things, always designs them to partake of certain, regulated, established essences, which are to be the models of all things to be produced; this, in a crude sense, would need some better explanation.

2. To direct - Regulate the patient in his manner of living. "Even goddesses are women; and no wife has power to regulate her husband's life."

Regulation

1. The act of Regulating - "Being but stupid matter, they cannot continue any regular and constant motion, without the guidance and regulation of some intelligent being."

2. Method; the effect of regulation.

Regulator

1. One that Regulates - The regularity of corporeal principles shows them to come at first from a divine regulator.

2. that part of a machine which makes motion equable.

In every sense, in the 18th century, "to regulate" meant to make regular via guidance or assistance. There was never any connotation of rule-making especially via some bureaucratic agency until something like 1835.

[chudrockz]

"It is not that they are making a conscientious or informed decision; it is that they have no other real option available to them or their family. The very same could be argued against those that vaccinate their children, if families knew the risks involved or the truth about the chemicals and process involved in making these concoctions they would be doing this to their children? Moreover, do you think the average vagrant wants to eat others leftovers or to sleep on the sidewalk?"

And there, friends and neighbors, is the anti-Walmart view in a nutshell!

Yes, my wife and I are clueless, socially-irresponsible DOLTS because we shop at Walmart. We either have no other option, or we don't know any better! Granted we're both full-time employed productive college graduates with above average IQs. Never mind that we're very aware that we could just as easily shop at Kohls, Target, Home Depot, Aldis, Cub Foods, Menards, etc.

We just like to give a great big middle finger to the universe and all its socially enlightened types! Yeah, that's it!

Either that or we want to save money.

[GunnyFreedom]

And I am still waiting for someone to show me in the US Constitution, chapter and verse, where the federal government is granted the authority for some bureaucratic unelected agency to write rules with the force of law. :)

[donnay]

"It is not that they are making a conscientious or informed decision; it is that they have no other real option available to them or their family. The very same could be argued against those that vaccinate their children, if families knew the risks involved or the truth about the chemicals and process involved in making these concoctions they would be doing this to their children? Moreover, do you think the average vagrant wants to eat others leftovers or to sleep on the sidewalk?"

And there, friends and neighbors, is the anti-Walmart view in a nutshell!

Yes, my wife and I are clueless, socially-irresponsible DOLTS because we shop at Walmart. We either have no other option, or we don't know any better! Granted we're both full-time employed productive college graduates with above average IQs. Never mind that we're very aware that we could just as easily shop at Kohls, Target, Home Depot, Aldis, Cub Foods, Menards, etc.

We just like to give a great big middle finger to the universe and all its socially enlightened types! Yeah, that's it!

Either that or we want to save money.


Save money for what---your future? You will have no future when TPTB blow out our economy. The agenda is to take this country to third world status. If you were really a free thinker, you would see the overall picture not the one in front of you.

A government that works in concert with the corporates is not looking out for your best interest, I can assure you.

[tod evans]

Using pictures to show different meanings of "Regulator";

Then;
http://cdn.propertyroom.com/imageserver/sellers/seller600031/images/ttlimgs/600031_342012143028120.jpg


Now;
http://www.motionpicturearmourer.com/sog1.jpg



More government isn't the answer.

[Weston White]

Nevertheless, let's assume for the sake of argument that you are correct, and that 'to regulate' has always meant for some bureaucratic unelected agency to write rules with the force of law.

Show me in the US Constitution, sir, chapter and verse, where the federal government is granted the authority for some bureaucratic unelected agency to write rules with the force of law.

I'll be waiting for your response. ;)

We’ll let’s presume that you are correct on this, to what logic would those enumerations even have been included, because it would have been very silly from them to have done, no?

[GunnyFreedom]

We’ll let’s presume that you are correct on this, to what logic would those enumerations even have been included, because it would have been very silly from them to have done, no?

Um. The Constitution only grants those powers enumerated to the federal government. That's the whole point of Article 6 and the 9th and 10th Amendments, to clarify that any power not enumerated did not belong to the federal government. Enumerating them would not have been 'silly,' lol, if that was a power the framers intended the federal government to have, they would have had to enumerate that power.

Instead, Congress is granted the power to enact laws subsequent to the Constitution. Laws, from an elected Congress, not regulations from nameless faceless unelected bureaucrats. The Federal Register is unconstitutional.

[Weston White]

Planned Obsolesce.
...
Also known as "built-in obsolescence".

As an example to this and from my own experience of recent. I have a Lincoln LS and the electric window motors all use a plastic container clip that mounts around the cable spool and the entire piece is a single unit (meaning it all has to be replaced). Now I rarely use my windows, even still I have already had to replace two of these complete motor units at $550 each. Surely Ford Lincoln Mercury is well aware that rubber and plastics breaks down, becoming rigid within 7-12 years and more-so when exposed to the elements. Clearly this was done intentionally, as there is no reason to use plastic on such a component that is frequently under strain and open to UV radiation, heat, and cold.

And just as a comparison, the electronic windows on my old 1988 GMC 1500 4X4 consisted of heavy duty metal components had never given me any issues whatsoever.

And also there is the aspect of how they configure newer cars nowadays, it is very hard to work on them yourself, and they have really limited you in what you can actually do to them, e.g., you need special fittings to exchange the coolant, the sparkplugs are very hard to gain access to inside of sealed compartments, to change out damaged hoses you have to pull out the radiator, etc.

[Weston White]

"It is not that they are making a conscientious or informed decision; it is that they have no other real option available to them or their family. The very same could be argued against those that vaccinate their children, if families knew the risks involved or the truth about the chemicals and process involved in making these concoctions they would be doing this to their children? Moreover, do you think the average vagrant wants to eat others leftovers or to sleep on the sidewalk?"

And there, friends and neighbors, is the anti-Walmart view in a nutshell!

Yes, my wife and I are clueless, socially-irresponsible DOLTS because we shop at Walmart. We either have no other option, or we don't know any better! Granted we're both full-time employed productive college graduates with above average IQs. Never mind that we're very aware that we could just as easily shop at Kohls, Target, Home Depot, Aldis, Cub Foods, Menards, etc.

We just like to give a great big middle finger to the universe and all its socially enlightened types! Yeah, that's it!

Either that or we want to save money.

Oh, I am sorry I had already covered those willfully amoral and/or otherwise blatantly obtuse a few posts back. But if you and your family do in fact have other more ethically prudent options, then you should really take those options to heart and exercise them.

[chudrockz]

Sigh.

As I ALREADY STATED, Walmart is clearly our best option most of the time. As it is for one hundred million people per week. Who the HELL are you to question that?

[donnay]

Sigh.

As I ALREADY STATED, Walmart is clearly our best option most of the time. As it is for one hundred million people per week. Who the HELL are you to question that?

Because you and a hundred million people are paying for your own enslavement. One trip at a time. That's really the sad fact of the matter. On top of that your are dragging people who do not want to be enslaved right with you.

[Eagles' Wings]

There is not a great solution here. As was said earlier, we each have to make careful choices about where we spend our money. Sometimes the choice is less than optimal and we support that which we deplore.

We save for many months, tucking away dollars and cents, to buy local, organic from farmer markets and special occasion gifts from a fair trade shop. Then, we buy some things from Amazon. There is not a pure, 100% American made car so we are eeking out more miles from our oldies.

We do the best we can! I do appreciate the passion here and lots of good info to learn from.

[Weston White]

And I am still waiting for someone to show me in the US Constitution, chapter and verse, where the federal government is granted the authority for some bureaucratic unelected agency to write rules with the force of law. :)

Such is in the power of the Congress to provide the Executive, through its own internal delegation of authorities, with the power to set forth clearly understandable rule-making policies that follow Congress's intended application of respective public (statutory) law. Statutes are generally broadly written, a statutes regulations are intended to provide practical readability and little more. If a regulation is found to have exceeded its binding statute, from which it derived its rule-making powers, it is then unlawful and the statute is to be given appropriate consideration of the regulations; ergo, regulations are always subservient to their respective statutes.

[chudrockz]

Uh, no, that's not what I'm doing at all.

The FACT of the matter is that by shopping at Walmart last year, we saved roughly $4,000 over what we would have spent for the SAME products shopping elsewhere. I used that money to buy a used truck to replace my pos car I was driving. That makes me a slave? See, I think that makes me a smart consumer.

And this "I'm dragging everyone into enslavement with me" crap is the sort of lefty socialist rhetoric I'd expect to read on Obama forums. Ron Paul would be highly critical, methinks.

[donnay]

There is not a great solution here. As was said earlier, we each have to make careful choices about where we spend our money. Sometimes the choice is less than optimal and we support that which we deplore.

We save for many months, tucking away dollars and cents, to buy local, organic from farmer markets and special occasion gifts from a fair trade shop. Then, we buy some things from Amazon. There is not a pure, 100% American made car so we are eeking out more miles from our oldies.

We do the best we can! I do appreciate the passion here and lots of good info to learn from.


Wait until the next government/state regulation is you cannot have a car older than 10 years on the road. They will cite bogus (pseudo environmental science) as to why the old vehicles are causing green house gases or some sort of nonsense, to pass their regulations. In some states this is already happening. Why, because the older cars were made better and they know it!!


ETA: Another thing is the newer cars will be tracked and traced and can be shut off by remote controlled devices.