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View Full Version : Taxpayers funding 'green' research through the Navy. $26/gallon vs. $3.60




phill4paul
07-02-2012, 12:16 PM
Insight: "Green Fleet" sails, meets stiff headwinds in Congress
By David Alexander | Reuters – 30 mins ago
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A member of the U.S. Navy watches …
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A U.S. Navy oiler slipped away from a fuel depot on the Puget Sound in Washington state one recent day, headed toward the central Pacific and into the storm over the Pentagon's controversial green fuels initiative.
In its tanks, the USNS Henry J. Kaiser carried nearly 900,000 gallons of biofuel blended with petroleum to power the cruisers, destroyers and fighter jets of what the Navy has taken to calling the "Great Green Fleet," the first carrier strike group to be powered largely by alternative fuels.
Conventionally powered ships and aircraft in the strike group will burn the blend in an operational setting for the first time this month during the 22-nation Rim of the Pacific exercise, the largest annual international maritime warfare maneuvers. The six-week exercise began on Friday.
The Pentagon hopes it can prove the Navy looks as impressive burning fuel squeezed from seeds, algae and chicken fat as it does using petroleum.
But the demonstration, years in the making, may be a Pyrrhic victory.
Some Republican lawmakers have seized on the fuel's $26-a-gallon price, compared to $3.60 for conventional fuel. They paint the program as a waste of precious funds at a time when the U.S. government's budget remains severely strained, the Pentagon is facing cuts and energy companies are finding big quantities of oil and gas in the United States.
Navy Secretary Ray Mabus, the program's biggest public booster, calls it vital for the military's energy security.
But to President Barack Obama's critics, it is an opportunity to accuse the U.S. leader of pushing green energy policies even if they don't make economic sense. The bankruptcy of government-funded solar panel maker Solyndra last year was a previous example of that, they say.
Senator John McCain, the top Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee, expressed outrage over the costs of the fuel at a hearing earlier this year.
"I don't believe it's the job of the Navy to be involved in building ... new technologies," he said. "I don't believe we can afford it."
But the U.S. Defense, Energy and Agriculture departments are moving ahead with their plans, jointly sponsoring a half-a-billion-dollar initiative to foster a competitive biofuels industry.
Mabus and officials at the Energy and Agriculture departments announced on Monday that they would make $30 million in matching funds available for companies working to produce large-scale biofuels plants. A second phase some time next year is expected to provide another $70 million in follow-on funding.
FIELD OF DREAMS?
The biofuels effort is one of the most ambitious Pentagon energy programs since then-Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld set up a task force in 2006 to find ways to reduce the military's fossil fuels dependency, involving more than 300,000 barrels a day.
"The reason we're doing this is that we simply buy too many fossil fuels from either actually or potentially volatile places on earth," Mabus told a conference on climate and security last month.
He says the Pentagon can use its buying muscle - it is the largest single consumer of petroleum in the world - to guarantee the demand needed for biofuel businesses to produce at a scale that will eventually drive down costs.
"We use 2 percent of all the fossil fuels that the United States uses," Mabus told the conference. "And one of the things that this means is that we can bring the market. And to paraphrase the old 'Field of Dreams' line, if the Navy comes, they will build it."
Mabus, a former Mississippi governor and ambassador to Saudi Arabia, aims for biofuels to supply about half of the Navy's non-nuclear fuel needs by 2020, about 8 million barrels a year.
His main tool in pushing the effort is the Defense Production Act, a measure passed in 1950 in the early stages of the Korean War to help the president mobilize the civilian economy for the war effort.
The act lets the Pentagon provide funding or loan guarantees to ensure production of critical defense needs. Since the 1970s it has been used to do things like bolster beryllium production and develop a specialized integrated circuit.
AT WHAT COST?
But the initial small-batch cost of some biofuels has raised eyebrows on Capitol Hill, even among lawmakers used to dealing with billion-dollar defense cost overruns.
The Pentagon paid Solazyme Inc $8.5 million in 2009 for 20,055 gallons of biofuel based on algae oil, or $424 a gallon.
Solazyme's strategic advisers, according to its website, include T.J. Glauthier, who served on Obama's White House Transition team and dealt with energy issues, but also former CIA director R. James Woolsey, a conservative national security official.
For the Great Green Fleet demonstration, the Pentagon paid $12 million for 450,000 gallons of biofuel, nearly $27 a gallon. There were eight bidders for that contract, it said.
Republican lawmakers are pushing measures that would bar the Navy from spending funds on alternative fuels that are not priced competitively with petroleum and are accusing Mabus of failing to provide Congress with a full analysis of the cost and time it would take to create.
"They couldn't answer some of the very fundamental questions that you would want on that issue," said Randy Forbes, a Republican on the House Armed Services Committee who says studies show that biofuels would always be more expensive than petroleum.
Mabus rejects the criticism, saying that as production rises, costs will come down. He notes that prices have fallen dramatically over the past few years, even with the Navy buying only small test batches of alternative fuels.
"Of course it costs more," he told the climate conference. "It's a new technology. If we didn't pay a little bit more for new technologies, we'd still be using typewriters instead of computers. ... And the Navy would never have bought a nuclear submarine, which still costs four to five times more than a conventional submarine."
CHICKEN FAT
Alternative fuel manufacturers see two promising avenues for creating so-called "drop-in" fuels that can be used in petroleum engines without any changes to the system. For now, they both have drawbacks.
One, called the Fischer-Tropsch process, is used to convert coal, natural gas or biomass into fuels. But the side effect is high levels of greenhouse gas emissions, said James Bartis, an energy researcher at the RAND Corporation think tank who has analyzed the Pentagon's alternative fuel effort.
Alternatively, lipids and fatty acids produced by animals and plants can be treated with hydrogen in a refinery process similar to that used for oil to produce fuel, Bartis said.
Camelina seeds, rendered chicken fat and algae oils are some substances currently being used in this process, and they produce a very clean-burning fuel, Bartis said.
The problem, he said, is that most of the seed- and animal-based oils cannot be produced at the scales the Pentagon needs.
The United States consumes about 19 million barrels of oil per day, with the Pentagon using about 321,000 barrels per day in 2011. Bartis estimated maximum fuel production using chicken fat would be about 30,000 barrels per day, while camelina seed might eventually produce 40,000 to 50,000 barrels daily.
"That's a drop in the bucket," he said. "It's a dead end. You can't make much."
He said algae appeared to offer the best potential for large-scale production, but current efforts were aimed at genetically modifying algae to be more efficient.
"It's not a tomorrow problem," he said. "It's a decade away."
ALL OF THE ABOVE
The Navy disagrees. Instead of focusing on one feedstock, it is pursuing an all-of-the-above approach, open to using any biofuel that meets its specifications, regardless of whether it is produced with seed oil, animal fat or woody biomass.
"We need to pursue all the ones that seem to have promise to be able to deliver for us," said Tom Hicks, deputy assistant secretary of the Navy for energy. "What we're trying to say is if it can meet the criteria that we have ... then we're an interested buyer. And so that leaves open a whole range of opportunities."
So far the Navy has used fuels based on algae, camelina, agricultural waste oils and food waste oils, Hicks said in an interview. Municipal solid waste could be an option at some point, as could woody biomass, he said.
He said researchers estimate that some biofuels could be cost-competitive before the end of the decade once they move to large-scale production.
A Defense Department study conducted with LMI consulting last year noted the Pentagon could take steps, like long-term contracting, that would speed up creation of a competitive biofuels market by providing certainty to growers and helping manufacturers gain access to capital to build refineries.
"Although DoD has requested 20-year contracting authority, similar commercial industry efforts have suggested that even 10 years would represent the tipping point for more mature renewable fuel producers to obtain financing to build the necessary infrastructure and plants," the report said.
Some industry participants believe Mabus is correct in asserting that the Navy's purchasing clout and other powers can be used to create a breakthrough in the biofuels industry that will eventually lead to competitive pricing.
"We've actually looked at that precise question and we believe they can in fact create that market," said Dr. Ray Johnson, a senior vice president at Lockheed Martin, which is looking at investing in the Navy's proposals.
Mabus remains undeterred in his pursuit of alternative fuel.
The Navy has been at the forefront of energy innovation for over a hundred years, Mabus says, transitioning from sail, to coal, to oil and then to nuclear from the 1850s to the 1950s.
"Every single time there were naysayers," he said recently. "And every single time, every single time, those naysayers have been wrong, and they're going to be wrong again this time."

http://news.yahoo.com/insight-green-fleet-sails-meets-stiff-headwinds-congress-050123048.html

CaseyJones
07-02-2012, 12:27 PM
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/02/us-usa-navy-greenfleet-idUSBRE86106X20120702

phill4paul
07-02-2012, 12:28 PM
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?382343-Taxpayers-funding-green-research-through-the-Navy.-26-gallon-vs.-3.60

Feel free to delete mine or merge.

CaseyJones
07-02-2012, 12:31 PM
my bad I usually check to see if there is a thread... I merged

phill4paul
07-02-2012, 12:33 PM
my bad I usually check to see if there is a thread... I merged

N.P. As long as everyone can see the back door approach to funding of the 'green' energy companies through taxpayers dollars. :)

Anti Federalist
07-02-2012, 12:48 PM
LOL, gotta protect mother Earth while we incinerate people.

Mind=Blown.

Here's an idea: let's stop occupying the world and maybe we won't have to burn millions of gallons of diesel fuel.

http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Slideshows/_production/ss_100826_iraq_vote_/ss-100901-iraq-ss-baghdad.grid-9x2.jpg

Zippyjuan
07-02-2012, 04:51 PM
Corn Ethanol Producers Cut Output

Currently a glut of corn on the market (record harvests) but the hot weather could greatly reduce yields for this summer.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/ethanol-makers-cut-back-production-idle-some-plants-amid-high-corn-prices-less-demand/2012/06/29/gJQAt2gICW_story.html



WICHITA, Kan. — Ethanol makers are cutting production, and some are temporarily idling plants in the Midwest, as corn prices skyrocket and demand for gasoline falls because people are driving less.

More than 95 percent of the nation’s ethanol plants use corn starch as their basis for the biofuel. That makes these facilities especially vulnerable to high corn prices in a commodity market nervous about triple-digit temperatures and drought in major corn-growing regions. Most of the more than 200 ethanol plants in the United States are in the Midwest, where most corn is grown.

A glut of the biofuel is squeezing ethanol makers further. The poor economy and high gas prices have people driving less, and ethanol is primarily used in gasoline blends.

“It is no different than the oil industry when markets are tight,” said Matt Hartwig, spokesman for the Washington-based Renewable Fuels Association. “When the market is tight, oil refineries idle plants or reduce production, and ethanol producers are simply doing the same thing.”

The U.S. Department of Agriculture reported Friday that farmers planted 96.4 million acres of corn this spring. It’s the largest number of planted acres since 1937, when 97 million were planted. The revised estimate, based on early June farm surveys, is up from May’s estimate of nearly 92 million acres.

The report, however, didn’t do much to ease fears about damage from heat or drought.

“A lot of planted acres are going to be irrelevant based on weather conditions,” said Rick Kment, a Nebraska-based ethanol analyst for the agricultural data company DTN.

Anti Federalist
07-02-2012, 07:46 PM
Corn Ethanol Producers Cut Output

Currently a glut of corn on the market (record harvests) but the hot weather could greatly reduce yields for this summer.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/ethanol-makers-cut-back-production-idle-some-plants-amid-high-corn-prices-less-demand/2012/06/29/gJQAt2gICW_story.html

There is no good reason that methanol should not be used as a motor fuel instead of food stock that uses more energy to produce than it delivers.




Why Methanol Is A Reliable Transportation Fuel

http://www.dailyenergyreport.com/2011/01/why-methanol-is-a-reliable-transportation-fuel/

For any alternative to gasoline or diesel to be considered a reliable transportation fuel, four factors need to be addressed. The alternative fuel must: (1) have a large energy resource base; (2) a positive impact on the economy; (3) be cleaner and greener; and (4) be acceptable to the consumer. Let’s look at the methanol factors with this checklist.

Methanol Resource Base is Diverse

In 2009, over 42 million metric tons of methanol was consumed around the globe, or 14 billion gallons, which is roughly equivalent to global ethanol fuel demand. Global methanol production capacity is growing even faster than demand, and is expected to reach over 85 million metric tons by 2012 — that’s over 28 billion gallons. Based on forecasts, there will be 34 million tons of excess production capacity around the world, enough to produce 11 billion gallons of methanol per year. One of the distinct advantages of employing methanol as a sustainable source of fuel is the diverse array of feedstocks from which this simple alcohol can be produced. Besides industrial production from natural gas and coal, methanol can be made from anything that is, or ever was, a plant. Forest thinnings, landfill gas, trash, pulp mill black liquor, agricultural waste and even CO2 pollution – all can be converted into methanol. In the U.S., if we took just under 5 percent of the natural gas currently produced domestically, and used that gas to make methanol, we could produce 10 billion gallons of the clean energy fuel. The same is true for coal and biomass. Using just 5 percent of the domestic coal mined or 5 percent of the available waste biomass, could each provide enough feedstock to produce 10 billion gallons of methanol. So by using less than 5 percent of our current production of natural gas, coal and biomass, we could supply 30 billion gallons of methanol per year.

Methanol Fuel is a Bargain, Just Ask China

When compared to gasoline on an energy equivalent basis – as methanol contains less BTUs per gallon than regular gasoline – M-85 (a blend of 85 percent methanol and 15 percent gasoline) still offers the best value at today’s pump prices. Methanol pricing is currently high at about $1.10 per gallon as a commodity, meaning the current pump price for M-85 would be just $1.65 per gallon including all applicable taxes, distribution costs and retail mark-up. On a gasoline equivalent basis, the price of methanol delivered to the consumer would be $2.73 per gallon. According to AAA, the average pump price for regular gasoline is currently $2.98 per gallon (AAA Daily Fuel Gauge, 12/21/2010), while the energy adjusted price for E-85, stands at $3.35 per gallon.

Methanol now represents over 7 percent of China’s transportation fuel pool, with as much as 7 million metric tons or 2.3 billion gallons of methanol expected to be sold at the fuel pump in 2010. Most methanol production in China is based on coal gasification. In a country where the retail price of gasoline is controlled by the central government, methanol’s lower wholesale price compared with gasoline is a real incentive for fuel blending. Chinese consumers in more than 14 provinces pump M-15 (a blend of 15 percent methanol and 85 percent gasoline) in their cars. While taxi, bus and truck fleets run on M-85 and even neat methanol (M-100). The Chinese recognize a bargain when the see one.

Methanol Going Green

In Soperton, Georgia, Range Fuels is harnessing biomass and wood waste to convert into biomethanol. In Iceland, two separate plants are utilizing CO2 pollution from aluminum plants, combined with hydrogen produced using geothermal energy, to make renewable methanol for vehicles and trucks on the island nation. In Kingsport, Tennessee – and to a much greater scale throughout China – coal is converted into methanol fuel through gasification, a much cleaner approach than traditional coal-to-liquids technology. In Sweden, Chemrec is creating methanol and dimethyl ether from the black liquor, which is a waste product of pulp mills. These innovative approaches mostly rely on a proven and reliable technology called gasification to extract the energy contained in all these feedstocks – but a number of different processes have created cost-competitive approaches to the production of methanol from a number of feedstocks.

Methanol Has No Technical Hurdles

From the mid-1980s to the late-1990s, methanol flexible fuel vehicles (FFVs), capable of running on any combination of methanol (up to M-85) and gasoline in the same tank were sold in the U.S. Methanol FFVs on the road peaked in 1997 at just over 21,000 with approximately 15,000 of these in California, which also had over 100 methanol refueling stations. Hundreds of transit and school buses were operated during this time period using M-100. From this experience, we know that there are no technical hurdles to the use of methanol fuels. Further, the use of methanol and ethanol fuels offer the greatest value to consumers of any alternative fuel/vehicle technology, with the incremental cost to provide flexible fuel capability to a new car just $50-$150, and the cost to install a methanol fueling pump is $62,000 or less.

A truly flexible fuel vehicle would be “A-85” or “GEM” capable, able to run on gasoline, ethanol (E-85) or methanol (M-85) in any combination. By creating a car capable of running on M-85 – which is slightly more corrosive than ethanol – a car would then be materially compatible to run on any alcohol based fuel, including ethanol, methanol, biobutanol and others. A GEM or alcohol compatible FFV would offer significant benefits in fuel diversity, price competition and consumer choice. The “ideal” car of the future, may well be a plug-in battery electric car with alcohol flexible fuel capability. In the U.S. Congress, the Open Fuel Standard Act would ensure the widespread adoption of alcohol-fuel compatible FFVs by requiring automakers to introduce GEM FFVs – 50 percent of all new cars by 2012 and 80 percent by 2015. With no cost to the government or taxpayers, this legislation would require automakers to produce cars that are capable of running on many different types of fuels from reliable technology already proven through millions of miles of demonstration.

Zippyjuan
07-02-2012, 08:06 PM
Corn is a lousy source for it though- it uses a lot of the energy produced to grow the corn and distill it.

This article was trying to calculate how much ethanol you would need to drive across the US (they assumed 30 mpg for the car):
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-efficiency/alternative-fuels/question707.htm




•Let's assume that you drive a Toyota Camry, the best-selling car in America in 2000. We know that the Toyota Camry with automatic transmission gets 30 miles per gallon of gas on the highway.
•Gasoline is more efficient than ethanol. One gallon of gasoline is equal to 1.5 gallons of ethanol. This means that same Camry would only get about 20 miles to the gallon if it were running on ethanol.
•We also need to know how far you are traveling: Let's say from Los Angeles to New York, which is 2,774 miles (4,464.2 km), according to MapQuest.com.
•Through research performed at Cornell University, we know that 1 acre of land can yield about 7,110 pounds (3,225 kg) of corn, which can be processed into 328 gallons (1240.61 liters) of ethanol. That is about 26.1 pounds (11.84 kg) of corn per gallon.

First, we need to figure out how much fuel we will need:



(METRIC: 4,464.2 km / 8.5 km per liter = 525.2 liters)

We know that it takes 26.1 pounds of corn to make 1 gallon of ethanol, so we can now calculate how many pounds of corn we need to fuel the Camry on its trip:



(METRIC: 525.2 liters * 3.13 kg = 1,642 kg)

You will need to plant a little more than a half an acre of corn to produce enough ethanol to fuel your trip.

According to the research from Cornell, you need about 140 gallons (530 liters) of fossil fuel to plant, grow and harvest an acre of corn. So, even before the corn is converted to ethanol, you're spending about $1.05 per gallon.

"The energy economics get worse at the processing plants, where the grain is crushed and fermented," reads the Cornell report. The corn has to be processed with various enzymes; yeast is added to the mixture to ferment it and make alcohol; the alcohol is then distilled to fuel-grade ethanol that is 85- to 95-percent pure. To produce ethanol that can be used as fuel, it also has to be denatured with a small amount of gasoline.


So not including the processing and transporting, you need 140 gallons of fossil fuel to produce 328 gallons of ethanol which would have the energy equivelence of 218 gallons of fossil fuel. or a net gain of 93 gallons- again, we are not including the processing and transportation which uses more of that energy.