Need help on a Progressive (read:statist) message board

[LastoftheMohicans]

I post as "The First Leftist" (from a Foundation for Economic Education article) on the Thom Hartmann message. Hartmann is a statist who calls himself a progressive. I'm totally outnumbered on the message board by a bunch of socialists and Obama apologists. I could use some help.

www.thomhartmann.com/community/forum

[Murray N Rothbard]

Sorry, no can do. That guy's face is just too creepy. O.o

[BuddyRey]

I used to be a HUGE Thom Hartmann fan back in the day.

I distinctly remember that he caused my first cognitive dissonance with liberalism (though I didn't recognize it as such at the time). He defined liberalism as the belief that human beings are generally good, and smart enough to run their own lives, while defining conservatism as the belief that people are generally up to no good, or too weak and stupid to live without constant monitoring and cajoling from external societal controllers. "If that's true", I thought, "then why should liberals support income taxation? If people are generally good, then we don't need taxes to care for the poor."

[Xhin]

Liberalism and Government-liking liberalism are completely different. It's similar to the divide here between libertarians/minarchists and people who want a return to the Republic/ a restoration of the Constitution. Do you work within the system or outside of it? In the case of liberalism, if you work within the system you completely destroy your principles.