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View Full Version : Is secession the only way out of Obama Care?




Origanalist
06-30-2012, 04:26 PM
Can a state or states opt for secession if the Supreme Court rules in favor of changing the very nature of the United States? Can those of us who prefer freedom to every other convenience or material want be allowed to say good bye?

There is no question that Obama Care is not what the Founding Fathers intended. And thirty some states have filed lawsuits against Obama Care. And presently 67% of Americans oppose imposing Obama Care on us! So, can we leave? Can we go through the process of convening a state convention to deal with the question of legal secession?

Maybe Obama has done something good for America. Maybe this particular exercise of imposing socialism on America will provide a second opportunity for the people to say, we are leaving.

The Constitution was never intended to provide for the material needs of the people. The men in Philadelphia did not set up food stamps, or a department of education. What they were doing was attempting to create a very restricted central government to deal with issues like foreign affairs, defense, interstate commerce. This was not supposed to be a European clone, this was supposed to be a wholly new way to govern ourselves with "consent of the governed" and "majority rule" somewhat diffused by a republican form of government, the Bill of Rights and a Constitution which specifically assigned powers and responsibilities.

In effect, what was occurring was that thirteen independent nations, the states, were surrendering a small portion of their national sovereigny to a central federal government. But all of that was destroyed with Lincoln and the Civil War. States' sovereignty was forever flushed down the toilet of history. Or was it?

Here we are again. We face the possibility that 2/3's of the American public opposes a dangerous, untested, new means of providing health care, and transfers one sixth of the American economy to the government could be imposed on us by five people. Five of nine is all it will take. But even if it were nine nothing in favor of imposing, it would be nine imposing on three hundred million! Of which two hundred million are opposed.

Americans do have a choice, the choice is secession. Not war, not violence. Just leaving the union that is no longer in concert with the majority of the people. The American government is already running a large deficit. The American economy is already stagnating as a result of government policies. The conditions for America today are worse then the days when Britain wanted to tax tea. And we have tried. We have made the effort. We have passed state referendum, the Courts have over turned. We have voted time and time again against socialism, homosexuality amd various other policies, and the Courts have set the will of the people aside.

And should not we act before Agenda 21 takes away the legacy of America in its entirety? Is there not a reason to act before our own representatives commit treason against America? In fact, would not a Supreme Court decision imposing the right of the government to force us to purchase a product not be treason in and of itself?

Did God do this on purpose? Did He decide to create this situation on the 150th Anniversary of the Second American Revolution? There is an historical symetry here that seems beyond coincidence.

So now we must ask; is it time to consider secession and a new start?

http://www.nolanchart.com/article9680-is-secession-the-only-way-out-of-obama-care.html

Anti Federalist
06-30-2012, 04:37 PM
So now we must ask; is it time to consider secession and a new start?

Way past time, AFAIC.

Philosophy_of_Politics
06-30-2012, 04:38 PM
Nullification of all Unjust Laws. Push your State Representatives.

If not, secession is possible.

However, I believe tax revolt is a great way to initiate the change we seek, in restoring our constitutional republic. If they still ignore, and are not willing to serve the people, it can escalate if we will it.

Origanalist
06-30-2012, 07:52 PM
Way past time, AFAIC.

Had to look up AFAIC:rolleyes:. We're on the same page AF.

brushfire
06-30-2012, 08:10 PM
Abe Lincoln and his buddies loved the idea of secession.

...when WV did it.

Origanalist
06-30-2012, 08:23 PM
Abe Lincoln and his buddies loved the idea of secession.

...when WV did it.

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg563/DouglasPaul/AbeFlag.jpg

AuH20
06-30-2012, 08:23 PM
The real problem if it ever comes to this. The president's authority supersedes state governors in regard to control over the state based national guard. An interesting dilemma to say the least:


The National Defense Authorization Act 2008 Pub.L. 110-181

Repeals provisions in section 1076 in Pub.L. 109-364 but still enables the President to call up the National Guard of the United States for active federal military service during Congressionally sanctioned national emergency or war. Places the National Guard Bureau directly under the Department of Defense as a joint activity. Promoted the Chief of the National Guard Bureau from a three-star to a four-star general.

Southron
06-30-2012, 08:26 PM
I think nullification comes first. Secession takes even more courage from state leaders than nullification. But the answers lie within the states in harnessing their power against the federal beast. I also think that revitalizing the militia will be necessary before states can take the secession step.

Origanalist
06-30-2012, 08:31 PM
I think nullification comes first. Secession takes even more courage from state leaders than nullification. But the answers lie within the states in harnessing their power against the federal beast. I also think that revitalizing the militia will be necessary before states can take the secession step.

It has to start with nullification. Somebody has to say NO. But when will it happen?

AuH20
06-30-2012, 08:32 PM
It has to start with nullification. Somebody has to say NO. But when will it happen?

When the federal government starts to crumble. And it's getting closer to that moment. Our federal government is only as strong as the it's external financing, and that lifeblood is in serious jeopardy. At some point, a sense of self-preservation will jolt the collective consciousness of one of the states.

Origanalist
06-30-2012, 08:34 PM
When the federal government starts to crumble. And it's getting closer to that moment. At some point, a sense of self-preservation will jolt the collective consciousness of one of the states.

Texas maybe?

awake
06-30-2012, 08:34 PM
Secession is the precipice of a low level civil war: DC vs. the leaving state.. Any state who embarks on leaving the union will feel the full wrath of DC, dirty tricks to outright criminal actions to dissolve the movement to leave. It needs more than one state to be effective. It would be a diffusing tactic....Personally, Canada, where I live, has been very concerned with Quebec in much the same manner. When Quebec wanted to separate from Canada, I believe the powers that be simply rigged the referendum. Easy, corrupt and dirty.

row333au
06-30-2012, 08:37 PM
Well the only thing right now that can make a difference is an open transparent PUBLIC REFERENDUM - after an open public debate from real experts (sciences and technologies not politicians) to determine real solutions and analysis of why its right or wrong, or a full re-start to the bill eliminating all unconstitutional and crony corporations and government partnership, as it should be base on limitations to affordability. Everything must be done filtered by ethics and anti-corruptions publicly.

AuH20
06-30-2012, 08:39 PM
Secession is the precipice of a low level civil war: DC vs. the leaving state.. Any state who embarks on leaving the union will feel the full wrath of DC, dirty tricks to outright criminal actions to dissolve the movement to leave. It needs more than one state to be effective. It would be a diffusing tactic....Personally, Canada, where I live, has been very concerned with Quebec in much the same manner. When Quebec wanted to separate from Canada, I believe the powers that be simply rigged the referendum. Easy, corrupt and dirty.

Yep, the full wrath of the CIA. Assassinations if need be, clandestine operations inciting domestic strife within the state in question, and an unrelenting worldwide propaganda campaign led by the MSM to draw support for such actions.

Origanalist
06-30-2012, 08:43 PM
Yep, the full wrath of the CIA. Assassinations if need be, clandestine operations inciting domestic strife within the state in question, and an unrelenting worldwide propaganda campaign led by the MSM to draw support for such actions.

All this is true, but then much of the world no longer believes our federal government is a moral force for good.

AuH20
06-30-2012, 08:55 PM
Another problem is cracking the illusion of the federal entitlement programs, which create a dependency issue for the citizens of the state. Social Security. Medicaid. Medicare. Highway grants. The federal government must altogether violate or negatively alter the tangible worth of these programs, in order to foment a grassroots uprising from the citizenry. Like I said, the federal government needs to start to fall apart, and secession will likely follow. As of tonight, there are far too many incentives for a state to continue to be a member of the union FOR THE TIME BEING.

VanBummel
06-30-2012, 08:56 PM
I like the idea of moving as many freedom lovers as possible to some contiguous, sparsely populated states (Maybe Montana, Wyoming, and both Dakotas?) such that we make up a majority of their populations, get our people in at all levels at state and local government, and then secede together.

Of course, saying that is easy. Getting it done would be hard. Getting it done without the American government murdering us all seems nearly impossible.

Origanalist
06-30-2012, 08:59 PM
Getting it done without the American government murdering us all seems nearly impossible.

Yes, there's always that.

Pauls' Revere
06-30-2012, 09:17 PM
It would be easier to Seastead or buy an island. There was a guy living on an island who invited others. Somewhere around Ireland I think.

matt0611
06-30-2012, 09:23 PM
Just for fun, what do you think DCs response would be if somehow a states congress and governor (or even multiple states) declared themselves independent tomorrow?

Zatch
06-30-2012, 09:24 PM
Just for fun, what do you think DCs response would be if somehow a states congress and governor (or even multiple states) declared themselves independent tomorrow?

Probably an embargo or a special forces team sent to arrest the governor.

Origanalist
06-30-2012, 09:25 PM
Just for fun, what do you think DCs response would be if somehow a states congress and governor (or even multiple states) declared themselves independent tomorrow?

I think they would be bringing all the troops home in a hurry.

Pauls' Revere
06-30-2012, 09:27 PM
Just for fun, what do you think DCs response would be if somehow a states congress and governor (or even multiple states) declared themselves independent tomorrow?

I think first they would demand payment of all back taxes if owed any. Then they would say it's a crazy idea from a bunch of quixotic kooks. Oh wait...

VanBummel
06-30-2012, 09:36 PM
Just for fun, what do you think DCs response would be if somehow a states congress and governor (or even multiple states) declared themselves independent tomorrow?

Restore freedom and democracy?

http://dronewarsuk.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/predator-firing-missile4.jpg

Origanalist
06-30-2012, 09:39 PM
Restore freedom and democracy?

http://dronewarsuk.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/predator-firing-missile4.jpg

Abe Lincoln would be proud.