Is it time to consider a Tax Revolt?

[Philosophy_of_Politics]

I'm seeing a lot of people (through frustration), declare that we should tax revolt in lieu of the ObamaCare ruling. I cannot say I disagree, but, I'm curious to hear feedback on the notion. As well as, debating a strategy if this were indeed to become a reality.

mod: As RP has said, he respects civil disobedience but it does come with consequences.

[Keith and stuff]

Could you provide some history on what tax revolts are and how successful they have been in the past? Thanks.

[Philosophy_of_Politics]

Could you provide some history on what tax revolts are and how successful they have been in the past? Thanks.

The American Revolution was largely based upon Tax Revolt, and was one of the largest incentives to stand up, as well as to revolt. I see potential in this, because it could re-energize the Tea Party (which is another discussion that I see going around within the Tea Party), and help unite many Americans who believe the Federal Government has become corrupt and not within our best interests.

[erowe1]

I would support one if it were big enough, serious enough, and well enough organized. But I have my doubts that we're at a point yet where a tax revolt can be any of those things. Until then, I'll keep paying my taxes and playing the voting game while I wait for that unpredictable moment to come.

[Philosophy_of_Politics]

I would support one if it were big enough, serious enough, and well enough organized. But I have my doubts that we're at a point yet where a tax revolt can be any of those things. Until then, I'll keep paying my taxes and playing the voting game while I wait for that unpredictable moment to come.

I agree with you Erowe, that we're not quite at a point yet where this could become a reality. Which is why I chose to present the idea now, because something like this would have to escalate. I believe circulating and discussing the idea itself, is a good way for the notion to gain traction.

[Anti Federalist]

It's long past time for a multi pronged revolt across many fronts.

But, one side is scared, and the other side glad of it.

So, here we sit, twiddling our thumbs as Rome burns and the enforcement state becomes more powerful every day.

[DerailingDaTrain]

It's going to be a few years before something like this happens. Most people in this country still think we would be without roads if we weren't taxed to hell

[shane77m]

If the idea were to grow you would see the government cracking down on those helping to spread the idea.

[Anti Federalist]

The surveillance state is everywhere and expanding at light speed.

Everything is being watched, and watched more closely every day that goes by.

Running, dodging, weaving, "Going Galt", moving out, "ex-pat-ing", black marketing, "off the grid-ing" are not going to help you.

You will have two choices:

Comply or resist.

Choose, now.

[Philosophy_of_Politics]

I choose resist, by moral obligation, and duty. However, this thread exists to see if you support the notion. In order to avoid these forums from becoming a DHS target (which it already is), and to avoid liability, if we were to construct a plan. We would do it elsewhere.

[economics102]

How about a threshold-based website (like Kickstarter or Free State Project) where everyone agrees to revolt if a certain number of people sign up?

[TheTexan]

My only criticism of a tax revolt is that we'd likely be too disorganized to defend ourselves effectively.

We should organize ourselves first in a geographic area. ie FSP, or similar. Establish ourself for at least a couple years so we get to know our neighbors, our community, who's on our side, and who's not. Then tax revolt.

In any case I'm not opposed to the idea on a national level. I think there are better options, but I'd still be open to it.

[roho76]

Please explain how you tax revolt when they are taken directly out of your check with cooperation from your employer?

I'm a 1099 so I can do it but not just anyone can be a 1099. The only way I see it is if you quit your job and don't buy anything.

[phill4paul]

Past it.

[Philosophy_of_Politics]

Please explain how you tax revolt when they are taken directly out of your check with cooperation from your employer?

I'm a 1099 so I can do it but not just anyone can be a 1099. The only way I see it is if you quit your job and don't buy anything.

These are details I wanted to discuss. I know the 1099 payroll checks are a good loophole, and that not everyone can. However, when I created this thread, I did not consider specifics as to how to do so. I merely presented the general concept, because I believe it has merit.

[erowe1]

Please explain how you tax revolt when they are taken directly out of your check with cooperation from your employer?

I'm a 1099 so I can do it but not just anyone can be a 1099. The only way I see it is if you quit your job and don't buy anything.

I don't think a regular employee could get out of paying FICA, but they could avoid the regular income tax by declaring enough extra dependents to where they won't withhold anything and then just not file.

[TomtheTinker]

I been revolting.

[lx43]

This would not be easy to get people to sign on because who wants to go to jail? Who is really ready to jump on the proverbial sword? There is a lot of repercussions that must be considered should one decide to revolt. One or a small group of people will have to be brave enough to get the ball going.

Please note I'm not trying to discourage anyone, I'm just saying there are severe punishments in place the state have placed should one decide not to pay his or her slave fee....I mean tax.

[roho76]

Elect a constitutionally sound Sheriff and then don't pay. Hopefully when the Feds show up he tells them to take a hike. That's what Sheriffs are for.

[liberdom]

Please explain how you tax revolt when they are taken directly out of your check with cooperation from your employer?

I'm a 1099 so I can do it but not just anyone can be a 1099. The only way I see it is if you quit your job and don't buy anything.

exactly. Some people may say you can overestimate your dependents and liabilities to maximize your take home (reduce your withholdings), I am not sure if it's considered fraudulent, but I wouldn't encourage it.

[liberdom]

Elect a constitutionally sound Sheriff and then don't pay. Hopefully when the Feds show up he tells them to take a hike. That's what Sheriffs are for.

when was the last time that happened?

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

I'm seeing a lot of people (through frustration), declare that we should tax revolt in lieu of the ObamaCare ruling. I cannot say I disagree, but, I'm curious to hear feedback on the notion. As well as, debating a strategy if this were indeed to become a reality.

mod: As RP has said, he respects civil disobedience but it does come with consequences.

First off, do you have healthcare benefits yourself either public or private? If so, why complain? You know, having doctors around in the past to help us was like winning the lottery. Then an agent came around to convince us it would be in our best interest to allow him or her to drive us over to cash that lottery ticket. First rule of business: Do away with all the unnecessay middle men. We don't need healthcare insurance.

[truelies]

During the tax revolt of the late Carter years the IRS was close to collapse. The blueprint for victory is right there.

[cheapseats]

ImplausibleEndeavors ‏@MindOfMo
Silver lining of ‪#ChiefJusticeRoberts‬' OBAMACARE IS TAX pass-the-buck ruling is that it invites NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION showdown.


ImplausibleEndeavors ‏@MindOfMo
Do people even REMEMBER that the United States of America BECAME the ol' U.S. of A. by ‪#ViolentRevolution‬? Yes indeed, INSURGENTS REBELLED.

[Czolgosz]

Liberty is doomed because the minimal resistance it provides, to stop tyranny, isn't sure they can resist without going to jail.

As previously pointed out, concentrate a group in the FSP.

[tod evans]

The big question is;

What effect if any would refusing to hand over FRN's have on "our government"?

They just print them out of thin air as they "need" them so refusing to return a few either hard-copies or digitally would serve what purpose?

Making a statement is fine and dandy but actually forcing change by withholding printable material is pretty unrealistic.

[cheapseats]

Liberty is doomed because the minimal resistance it provides, to stop tyranny, isn't sure they can resist without going to jail.

As previously pointed out, concentrate a group in the FSP.


Ron Paul People should be pretty well sold by now on the upside of POPULAR SUPPORT.

Situating the lion's share of "ready, willing and able" Freedom Fighters on one comparatively small patch of real estate will render them MORE vulnerable to the "shock and awe" component of American Law & System Enforcement.

[Czolgosz]

Ron Paul People should be pretty well sold by now on the upside of POPULAR SUPPORT.

Situating the lion's share of "ready, willing and able" Freedom Fighters on one comparatively small patch of real estate will render them MORE vulnerable to the "shock and awe" component of American Law & System Enforcement.


Lul at american military might.

[cheapseats]

Lul at american military might.


Who's laughing?

If the hardware is trained on YOU, it scarcely matters whether it is "Military" or "Law Enforcement" that is bearing down.

The FANTASY that somehow New Hampshire shall be FREE while the other 49 states are OPPRESSED is exactly that, FANTASY.

[Czolgosz]

Who's laughing?

If the hardware is trained on YOU, it scarcely matters whether it is "Military" or "Law Enforcement" that is bearing down.

The FANTASY that somehow New Hampshire shall be FREE while the other 49 states are OPPRESSED is exactly that, FANTASY.

These aren't the days where rows of Continental soilders line up on a hill directly across from Red Coats.

A guerilla war against other Amuricans IS the worst case scenario for the mighty US military.

[cheapseats]

These aren't the days where rows of Continental soilders line up on a hill directly across from Red Coats.

That was an IDIOTIC way to conduct war. Only MEN could have come up with such a SPECTACLE OF DEATH...one type to "lead from the rear", another type to serve as cannon fodder.



A guerilla war against other Amuricans IS the worst case scenario for the mighty US military.

It is not a pretty picture for guerillas, either. Ask Iraqis and Afghanis. Or Vietnamese.

[asurfaholic]

These aren't the days where rows of Continental soilders line up on a hill directly across from Red Coats.

A guerilla war against other Amuricans IS the worst case scenario for the mighty US military.

Ya, cause the attack helicopters that can see me before i even know its there is really going to have it rough against me and my pitchfork.

And drones have souls... it would weep at the thought of dropping a big bomb on my house, dog, wife, and baby - just to possibly kill me.

?

Honestly, a real revolt will have to happen spontaneously, and will likely happen directly following a very real crisis. Why do you think DHS and FEMA are so intertwined?

[Czolgosz]

Smells like fear and compliance. Y'all wouldn't even tax revolt. lol

[pcosmar]

Tax Revolt???

How do you get all the employers to refuse to withhold taxes?

just askin'

[Pauls' Revere]

I think you might get better support for a general strike or a general "sick out" whereby people could feel they can participate without breaking the law(s). Not everyone is comfortable with or can afford to spend the time in jail for civil disobedience.

[P3ter_Griffin]

Tax Revolt???

How do you get all the employers to refuse to withhold taxes?

just askin'

I can't think of the name of the form off hand, but when you become employed your employer asks how many dependents you have, and the more you claim the less taxes will be taken out of your check. I'd imagine this form can be updated as well.

[agitator]

I can't think of the name of the form off hand, but when you become employed your employer asks how many dependents you have, and the more you claim the less taxes will be taken out of your check. I'd imagine this form can be updated as well. W-4.

[liberdom]

Tax Revolt???

How do you get all the employers to refuse to withhold taxes?

just askin'

good question.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

The big question is;

What effect if any would refusing to hand over FRN's have on "our government"?

They just print them out of thin air as they "need" them so refusing to return a few either hard-copies or digitally would serve what purpose?

Making a statement is fine and dandy but actually forcing change by withholding printable material is pretty unrealistic.

It would serve the purpose of defunding the State to the extent that all their receipts would be counterfeit and thus rampant hyperinflation would ensue. It would grind the Government to a halt because no one would take their phoney monopoly money anymore and transactions in the actual economy would revert back to useful commodities that share characteristics which money is used for. (E.g. the fraud would be exposed and we could return to a normal state of affairs, after we win the harsh and violent war that would probably ensue...)

There has to be that line in the sand, the moment of conviction to take action (non-action in this case), otherwise nothing will ever get done and tyranny will march on and our window of opportunity would have all ready gone by. What would have happened if the militia on the Lexington Green gave up their arms, their cannons, and their ability to defend their property and liberties? Who would have stood up to the tyranny? I've seen what inaction from good men results and it ain't pretty. Liberty or Death or so some say, but don't actually mean.

[A Son of Liberty]

Not one in 310 million - including myself - is willing yet to take the shot heard 'round the world.

Speaking for myself, I'm not willing because I don't believe that any act of defiance on my part would spark a revolution, because I think most people are too unfamiliar with the concept of timeless principles and objective, observable truths. I think too many people are stuck in a sort of intellectual malaise, knee deep in a philosophical bog, to recognize that their creature comforts actually are worth sacrificing to some greater ideal. Add to that the fact that those of us who are aware of the dilemma at hand are also aware that their act of individual sacrifice would be squelched out, distorted, spun, and obscured while being broadcast to the rest of America and humanity, I don't blame any of us for being willing to play the role of sacrificial lamb.

If I thought that refusing to pay the tribute to the state then standing my ground when they came to enslave me actually might spark a real intellectual revolution based on real individual liberty and thus ensure the liberty of my successors, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

We live among the dead. Anything one does to disturb their peaceful rest will be met with anger and hatred. I'm resolved to carve out a piece of obscure land far away from the zombies and their herders in the hopes of living out my days as best I can. And I CURSE all those who stand against me... even my closest friends and families.

[Anti Federalist]

That was an IDIOTIC way to conduct war. Only MEN could have come up with such a SPECTACLE OF DEATH...one type to "lead from the rear", another type to serve as cannon fodder.

Wut, men?

Actually, in the days of smooth bore, inaccurate and slow to load muzzle loading muskets, it was a very effective way to concentrate and maintain fire and overwhelm an enemy.

Highly accurate long arms did not come about until the early part of the 19th century, thus the bloodshed of the Civil War, where technology outpaced tactics.

[Anti Federalist]

+rep

No man will dance until the first one boogies.


Not one in 310 million - including myself - is willing yet to take the shot heard 'round the world.

Speaking for myself, I'm not willing because I don't believe that any act of defiance on my part would spark a revolution, because I think most people are too unfamiliar with the concept of timeless principles and objective, observable truths. I think too many people are stuck in a sort of intellectual malaise, knee deep in a philosophical bog, to recognize that their creature comforts actually are worth sacrificing to some greater ideal. Add to that the fact that those of us who are aware of the dilemma at hand are also aware that their act of individual sacrifice would be squelched out, distorted, spun, and obscured while being broadcast to the rest of America and humanity, I don't blame any of us for being willing to play the role of sacrificial lamb.

If I thought that refusing to pay the tribute to the state then standing my ground when they came to enslave me actually might spark a real intellectual revolution based on real individual liberty and thus ensure the liberty of my successors, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

We live among the dead. Anything one does to disturb their peaceful rest will be met with anger and hatred. I'm resolved to carve out a piece of obscure land far away from the zombies and their herders in the hopes of living out my days as best I can. And I CURSE all those who stand against me... even my closest friends and families.

[LibertyRevolution]

Tax Revolt???

How do you get all the employers to refuse to withhold taxes?

just askin'

Negotiate with you employer for payment in silver eagles, not federal reserve notes?
That is what we really need to do.. Get people to stop accepting FRN as payment for wages.

That would be the only tax revolt that would work...

Just 2oz of silver would equal 8 hours at minimum wage right now...
Got to get people to say:
"hey boss man, how about you just pay me 2oz of silver a day instead of us both losing money having me on the books".

[tod evans]

Negotiate with you employer for payment in silver eagles, not federal reserve notes?
That is what we really need to do.. Get people to stop accepting FRN as payment for wages.

That would be the only tax revolt that would work...

I like this idea.......Payment in ANYTHING not controlled by the government.....

[liberdom]

Negotiate with you employer for payment in silver eagles, not federal reserve notes?
That is what we really need to do.. Get people to stop accepting FRN as payment for wages.

That would be the only tax revolt that would work...

Just 2oz of silver would equal 8 hours at minimum wage right now...
Got to get people to say:
"hey boss man, how about you just pay me 2oz of silver a day instead of us both losing money having me on the books".

get real, if your employer isn't willing to turn you into 1099, he's not going to bother handling coins for you. Don't get me wrong, 1099 is not for everybody and you shouldn't do it unless it were appropriate, and typically it's harder when you make more money or work more hours.

People who work for close to minimum wage or less than $5000 a month might be more flexible on it, and closer to their employers, but good luck if you make more than that.

[PaulConventionWV]

Negotiate with you employer for payment in silver eagles, not federal reserve notes?
That is what we really need to do.. Get people to stop accepting FRN as payment for wages.

That would be the only tax revolt that would work...

Just 2oz of silver would equal 8 hours at minimum wage right now...
Got to get people to say:
"hey boss man, how about you just pay me 2oz of silver a day instead of us both losing money having me on the books".

But then how would you pay for the things you need in every day life? Stores aren't going to take silver as payment for food. Likewise, any other business probably won't take silver as payment for anything because, guess what, we have things called "legal tender laws" that disallow us from using any other form of currency.

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

The big question is;

What effect if any would refusing to hand over FRN's have on "our government"?

They just print them out of thin air as they "need" them so refusing to return a few either hard-copies or digitally would serve what purpose?

Making a statement is fine and dandy but actually forcing change by withholding printable material is pretty unrealistic.

When speaking about The Declaration of Independence, I type out the whole term as The Declaration of Independence. The reason I do this is because I cherish The Declaration of Independence above all other formal documents including The U.S. Constitution, or The United States Constitution. When abbreviating the United States in this instance as the U.S., it isn't for your convenience as a reader, but for mine as the writer.
In order to solve problems by the utilization of uphill thinking and working, I'm not here to write for my convenience.

[Todd]

I been revolting.

few in this thread calling for out and out insurrection have.

[puppetmaster]

A great way to do this is a nationwide work stoppage......sitout

[Pericles]

Is it time for a tax revolt yet?

Fixed

[roho76]

But then how would you pay for the things you need in every day life? Stores aren't going to take silver as payment for food. Likewise, any other business probably won't take silver as payment for anything because, guess what, we have things called "legal tender laws" that disallow us from using any other form of currency.

Not true. Legal Tender law stipulates that you can't refuse FRN's as payment. A business is allowed to accept anything it want's as payment. There are different kinds of currency all over the country from city money that is accepted by most local businesses to coins at Chucky Cheese. Theoretically I could walk into WalMart and buy everything with gold coins if they were willing to accept them. But they won't, which is their choice. A bad choice I might add.

Also a man was paying his employees in Nevada with gold and silver. The government ended up busting him on it but it was because he was claiming the face value of the coin and not the real value of the commodity trying to hide the difference.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Not true. Legal Tender law stipulates that you can't refuse FRN's as payment. A business is allowed to accept anything it want's as payment. There are different kinds of currency all over the country from city money that is accepted by most local businesses to coins at Chucky Cheese. Theoretically I could walk into WalMart and buy everything with gold coins if they were willing to accept them. But they won't, which is their choice. A bad choice I might add.

Also a man was paying his employees in Nevada with gold and silver. The government ended up busting him on it but it was because he was claiming the face value of the coin and not the real value of the commodity trying to hide the difference.

Which is absolutely illegal considering the Government does not audit us for taxation purposes on the commodity value of all the other bunk coinage and bills. If they did, then why have face values? I'm not surprised though that the Government does whatever it deems is best for itself without regard to logic, or even their own so-called 'laws'.

If they can claim that if you use a silver dime you have to report it as 3.50$, but that all other dimes are reported as .10C...I mean how idiotic and blatant can the thievery get? We should be paying taxes that every bill is worth...what... .000001C? Lol.

[brushfire]

Look to what happened in Egypt.

The military sided with the people - why?

Would they have done the same if the people formed militias and stormed the government?

I believe "the people" earned the sympathy of the military. Anyone planning a revolt or insurection should consider what happened to the people of Egypt, and how the US media likes to portray the opposition. Just something to ponder, because a mass tax revolt would definitely lead to violence. There is more than 1 way to fight fire...

I personally see the government recklessly speeding towards the wall of collapse - but they dont care, because they have a plan ;) So regardless of whether collapse comes from a tax revolt, or reckless spending, its going to happen. The question, IMO, is how are revolutionaries positioned to handle the collapse, and what will be done when it arrives. I say, let the government continue to stir up distain - they will make very fertile soil for our seeds of liberty.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Look to what happened in Egypt.

The military sided with the people - why?

Would they have done the same if the people formed militias and stormed the government?

I believe "the people" earned the sympathy of the military. Anyone planning a revolt or insurection should consider what happened to the people of Egypt, and how the US media likes to portray the opposition. Just something to ponder, because a mass tax revolt would definitely lead to violence. There is more than 1 way to fight fire...

I personally see the government recklessly speeding towards the wall of collapse - but they dont care, because they have a plan ;) So regardless of whether collapse comes from a tax revolt, or reckless spending, its going to happen. The question, IMO, is how are revolutionaries positioned to handle the collapse, and what will be done when it arrives. I say, let the government continue to stir up distain - they will make very fertile soil for our seeds of liberty.

The military 'side with the people' because the people were stupid and called for them to rule. Now, Egypt is a Junta with the military in charge. That's a step backwards in my honest opinion. Hell, haven't you noticed the military cracking down on huge protests and riots that have been taking place these last few weeks (oddly enough not really being reported...)?

[brushfire]

The military 'side with the people' because the people were stupid and called for them to rule. Now, Egypt is a Junta with the military in charge. That's a step backwards in my honest opinion. Hell, haven't you noticed the military cracking down on huge protests and riots that have been taking place these last few weeks (oddly enough not really being reported...)?

I dont wish to put words in your mouth at all, please excuse me, but are you suggesting that attacking the US military head on is the better tactic?

If what you say is correct about Egypt, then perhaps my mentioning it was a distraction to the overall message. From my understanding the military had "protected" the people from a rigged election. From what I've heard, the people want a new election, and the military is helping with that.

I'm all for getting local sources though - please share any info on the topic. Its not easy to get a clear story, and its entirely possible that I may be mistaken.

Going back to my original post, I still stand by keeping the sympathy of the military. The wrong move and you lose support of the military, and the general population. Then what? Afghanistyle domestic insurgency, for the next 30 years?

JMO...

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

I dont wish to put words in your mouth at all, please excuse me, but are you suggesting that attacking the US military head on is the better tactic?

If what you say is correct about Egypt, then perhaps my mentioning it was a distraction to the overall message. From my understanding the military had "protected" the people from a rigged election. From what I've heard, the people want a new election, and the military is helping with that.

I'm all for getting local sources though - please share any info on the topic. Its not easy to get a clear story, and its entirely possible that I may be mistaken.

Going back to my original post, I still stand by keeping the sympathy of the military. The wrong move and you lose support of the military, and the general population. Then what? Afghanistyle domestic insurgency, for the next 30 years?

JMO...

I suggest mass civil disobedience as the best option, but do not rule out self-defense as a means to throw off the yoke. As for the Military, remember, they are a branch of the Federal Government and hell, since when have they ever said no to one of the Fed.Gov's orders? They rounded up hundreds of thousands of Japanese and threw them in camps, they pillaged, raped, and murdered the Indian population, they killed 600,000 of their brethren. I think you misplace faith. That isn't to say that there aren't many well respecting and upstanding individuals in the Military, it is to say, that as a whole they do what they're told to do. If that means kill 100,000 philippines well by golly, we're on the job. If that means creating plans to kill and attack their own citizens in order to frame it on Cuba to rile sentiment for war, well, they'll do that too.

Those who say no will be put in the brig. I am afraid that of the good standing people in the Military, they're vastly outnumbered by automatons that will do anything they're told to do (See: Milgrim's Experiment, and Soloman Asch's work, et. al).

[brushfire]

Those who say no will be put in the brig. I am afraid that of the good standing people in the Military, they're vastly outnumbered by automatons that will do anything they're told to do (See: Milgrim's Experiment, and Soloman Asch's work, et. al).

Oh, I'm familiar with how "the experiment requires that you continue". I'm thinking more along the lines of Sun Tzu. If it were me, I'd rather have them on my side than theirs. I know that the military is run by the government, but we also see a great deal of support coming from them to the liberty movement.

An example of what I'd been talking about, based solely on common perception, may be the Hutaree. How many military sympathizers do you think they have?
Would the average enlistee be willing to engage them, or some patchouli soaked 99 percenter?
Would the average enlistee be just as willing to engage one thousand "Veterans for Ron Paul" demonstrators?

FWIW- I think those who can, are already blowing off the IRS. In fact, the topic is what brought me to Ron Paul in the first place. I had heard about Tom Cryer (RIP), and while looking up details on his civil case and came upon Aaron Russo. The documentary, F2F, really exposed me to RP.
So I'm not opposed to civil disobedience. I think its a good mechanism for change. The part I'm a little concerned about is the not so civil disobedience. MLK and Gandhi had the right idea, IMO. Revolution and insurrection bring success, but IMO come at a much greater cost, in terms of life and time.

[shane77m]

First I would like to say hello to Janet N and to the folks over at the IRS just in case they are keeping up with this thread.

The idea of a tax revolt would need to be spread. I don't think enough people would spontaneously do it. Spreading it around and convincing people to do it would be the hard part. The tipping point with most people hasn't arrived yet. I still haven't reached that point yet.

[Pericles]

Look to what happened in Egypt.

The military sided with the people - why?

Would they have done the same if the people formed militias and stormed the government?

I believe "the people" earned the sympathy of the military. Anyone planning a revolt or insurection should consider what happened to the people of Egypt, and how the US media likes to portray the opposition. Just something to ponder, because a mass tax revolt would definitely lead to violence. There is more than 1 way to fight fire...

I personally see the government recklessly speeding towards the wall of collapse - but they dont care, because they have a plan ;) So regardless of whether collapse comes from a tax revolt, or reckless spending, its going to happen. The question, IMO, is how are revolutionaries positioned to handle the collapse, and what will be done when it arrives. I say, let the government continue to stir up distain - they will make very fertile soil for our seeds of liberty.

Something to consider - this mostly comes from an ex-CIA guy:

There will be more of these revolutions for an interesting reason. In every revolution, there comes a point where the dictator turns to the general and says, ‘Fire into the crowd.’ If the general fires into the crowd, it stops the revolution. If the general says ‘No,’ the revolution succeeds right then. Increasingly, the generals are saying ‘No’ because their kids are in the crowd.
Thanks to TV and the Internet, the average 18-year old outside the U.S. is very savvy about what is going on in the world, especially in terms of popular culture. There is a huge global consciousness, and young people around the world want to be a part of it. It is increasingly apparent to them that the miserable government where they live is the only thing standing in their way. More and more, it is the well-educated kids, the children of the generals and the elite, who are leading the revolutions.

The issue is when is this happening here? The reason why the US military would not be part of a beatdown, is for the same reason - you generally don't shoot your relatives. The reason why having a large number of 1st generation residents in the military is a concern, is that it makes the beatdown easier.

[ZENemy]

Seems to me that the constitution is no longer a functioning document. If the constitution is no longer valid then that includes the 16th amendment :) :D:D:D

[lx43]

I suggest mass civil disobedience as the best option, but do not rule out self-defense as a means to throw off the yoke. As for the Military, remember, they are a branch of the Federal Government and hell, since when have they ever said no to one of the Fed.Gov's orders? They rounded up hundreds of thousands of Japanese and threw them in camps, they pillaged, raped, and murdered the Indian population, they killed 600,000 of their brethren. I think you misplace faith. That isn't to say that there aren't many well respecting and upstanding individuals in the Military, it is to say, that as a whole they do what they're told to do. If that means kill 100,000 philippines well by golly, we're on the job. If that means creating plans to kill and attack their own citizens in order to frame it on Cuba to rile sentiment for war, well, they'll do that too.

Those who say no will be put in the brig. I am afraid that of the good standing people in the Military, they're vastly outnumbered by automatons that will do anything they're told to do (See: Milgrim's Experiment, and Soloman Asch's work, et. al).

The question is how to get mass civil disobedience started? And after that what follows? I don't want us replacing one tyrannical govt for another one.