How does the IRS know if you do not have health insurance?

[robertwerden]

Honestly, cant you just lie and say you have insurance to avoid paying the tax penalty?

[dannno]

No, all health insurance will be regulated by the government and you must have a government approved insurance plan.

[thoughtomator]

you will have to show proof of insurance with your taxes just like you need to do when a cop stops you in your car

[ZENemy]

Or pay the fine until you get locked up? Looks like thats my future.

[jj-]

Or pay the fine until you get locked up? Looks like thats my future.

If you pay the fine they will probably leave you alone. Not paying the fine probably will become a problem, unless millions choose to not pay it as well.

[ZENemy]

If you pay the fine they will probably leave you alone. Not paying the fine probably will become a problem, unless millions choose to not pay it either.

Its unreal that I have to pay a fine because I eat healthy and dont require healthcare. BONKERS

[ClydeCoulter]

If you pay the fine they will probably leave you alone. Not paying the fine probably will become a problem, unless millions choose to not pay it as well.

Yeah, it's about the money, not health anything, it's about you paying them so they can get their di@k s*c@'ed whenever they want and eat the best foods and drink the best coffee's and hang out with the best assh@les in their #1/2mil cars in the bestest places in the world. (all while thinking of your health/srcsm)

edit: I hope this doesn't offend, I'm pissed...:mad:

[Dary]

I wonder if I'll have to pay the fine while I'm in jail in order to get health care during my stay?

[CaptainAmerica]

america is FUCKED

[Endthefednow]

america is FUCKED Ouch!!

[69360]

I'm low income self employed, no insurance. When obamacare kicks in in 2014, I will now qualify for medicare. If I don't take the handout, will I be fined? No real answers have been put forth about that.

[Keith and stuff]

The government is hiring 10,000s of new IRS agents to find out and enforce the new tax.

[Anti Federalist]

Honestly, cant you just lie and say you have insurance to avoid paying the tax penalty?

Three words: Electronic Health Records.


No, all health insurance will be regulated by the government and you must have a government approved insurance plan.

This. You will have to carry an approved biometric/RFID card at all times, with the government approved health care ID number that you belong to.


Its unreal that I have to pay a fine because I eat healthy and dont require healthcare. BONKERS

Maybe. Maybe we'll just put you under surveillance for a while to see if you are telling the truth about eating healthy.


Yeah, it's about the money, not health anything, it's about you paying them so they can get their di@k s*c@'ed whenever they want and eat the best foods and drink the best coffee's and hang out with the best assh@les in their #1/2mil cars in the bestest places in the world. (all while thinking of your health/srcsm)

edit: I hope this doesn't offend, I'm pissed...:mad:

Get mad, that's good.

But you are missing the point if you think this is all about money.

Money is secondary, it is, in fact, about control and compliance.


I wonder if I'll have to pay the fine while I'm in jail in order to get health care during my stay?

Yes, your prison wages will be applied to your healthcare premiums.

[Peace&Freedom]

The flaw in the new health-fine schema is similar to the flaw in the whole IRS system. All liabilities, including penalties and fines alleged by the IRS require an ASSESSMENT, or some determination being made that something is due. This is almost always based on unsworn information reports you or a third party submit to the IRS, who then use that paper trail to create an equitable case to allege you owe.

Most of this is done by computerized processing, not by anybody verifying or swearing to the information for completeness or correctness. So this is NOT the same thing as verified proof of claim of a correct, or lawfully completed assessment. Allegations still need to be proven. If you contest the assessment and demonstrate it was NOT done lawfully, the fines do not need to be paid, as a completed assessment process must precede any lawful enforcement of amounts due. If millions of Americans so challenge the bogus automated reports that no one has verified, be it concerning health care or the income tax, the system will go into overload and shut down.

[ClydeCoulter]

Get mad, that's good.

But you are missing the point if you think this is all about money.

Money is secondary, it is, in fact, about control and compliance.

I meant "my/your" money, why else would they want to control you, you are a resource/labor/cannonfodder/forceagainstothers.

[ItsTime]

full cavity check

[newbitech]

How does the IRS even know I exist? hmmm

[Pauls' Revere]

RFID microchip implant

[MelissaWV]

To verify that you have car insurance, a cop can ask you when they pull you over. Vehicles where a car loan is involved almost always require proof of insurance. There is a form FR19 which can be demanded of your insurance company at random, essentially spot-checking to make sure that a license plate is affiliated with a vehicle that has appropriate insurance.

This doesn't seem that difficult to project over to health insurance.

[ClydeCoulter]

Ah, but it will create jobs, people to make sure you have the proper insurance /sarcasm

[awake]

Obama care is simply a transition phase to government directly taxing and paying for healthcare...Insurances will and must be enveloped by the federal government. Canada, the model socialist system, simply deducts and dictates fees and health treatments and procedure coverage. And because of this, the Canadian healthcare model is operating in constant crises and service reduction.

[Danke]

The flaw in the new health-fine schema is similar to the flaw in the whole IRS system. All liabilities, including penalties and fines alleged by the IRS require an ASSESSMENT, or some determination being made that something is due. This is almost always based on unsworn information reports you or a third party submit to the IRS, who then use that paper trail to create an equitable case to allege you owe.

Most of this is done but computerized processing, not by anybody verifying or swearing to the information for completeness or correctness. So this is NOT the same thing as verified proof of claim of a correct, or lawfully completed assessment. Allegations still need to be proven. If you contest the assessment and demonstate it was NOT done lawfully, the fines do not need to be paid, as a completed assessment process must precede any lawful enforcement of amounts due. If millions of Americans so challenge the bogus automated reports that no one has verified, be it concerning health care or the income tax, the system will go into overload and shut down.

Maybe 1% of this forum understood that.

I predicted it would pass, because like the income tax, it is constitutional (as it is part of the income tax, like FICA). Only a small minority of the members here understand what is being done, and understand their remedies.

[Southerner]

Obama care is simply a transition phase to government directly taxing and paying for healthcare...Insurances will and must be enveloped by the federal government. Canada, the model socialist system, simply deducts and dictates fees and health treatments and procedure coverage. And because of this, the Canadian healthcare model is operating in constant crises and service reduction.

Correct, and we too will go to either nationalized or single payer HC within a few years, as we head ever closer to that financial cliff.

[romancito]

If it is a tax, as far as I am concerned it is a mandate. Means that if you don't comply it is a flaw on your record. Your potential employer may feel you are not a responsible enough citizen to be given the position versus another responsible candidate. Your record follows you forever. You may not be able to buy or sell (i.e., a home). You will either have to fill a form with your tax return acknowledging compliance or else your doctor/hospital will fill a form they send to the IRS. The details will work themselves slowly but if you choose not to purchase insurance until you actually need it then there will be penalties with respect to a number of issues I'm sure. And you may be dropped under the slightest of misrepresentations, etc. But the worse is that you may not be able to wipe out any debt related to healthcare ever. I don't know. I looks bad to me as a tax. You may get regular home visits from compliance officers. You may be required to report to a court or some kind of agency like the Agriculture Dept. I think it may become hell on earth for anyone brave enough to go their own way. And I think it will get worse. The state may say that as a tax they can do a similar mandate on other stuff. The county too and the city. That is what scares me the most and not the healthcare tax at the federal level. The state, county and city are much much scarey. I am scared. I think this is the end of an era and the beginning of another. I think I'll listen to Coast to Coast AM tonight and stay awake the rest of the morning.

[Eagles' Wings]

Maybe 1% of this forum understood that.

I predicted it would pass, because like the income tax, it is constitutional (as it is part of the income tax, like FICA). Only a small minority of the members here understand what is being done, and understand their remedies. Apart from what P&F said above, can you explain about the 1%. Is there fear/caution/etc. where it need not be. Tell us the remedies. Thanks, Danke.

[devil21]

Well, like income taxes, if there's no paperwork filed for you by any 3rd party (employers, banks, etc) then they don't really know what you're doing or not doing. Most of the process is automated now and cross checks records for inaccuracies. No records = no knowledge.

[DEGuy]

Is it possible that someone could set up an insurance company that costs nothing (or very little) to join that doesn't actually pay out any benefits? But it would still be able to report to Big Brother that Johnny has an insurance plan? I guess it would be on a state-by-state basis, and there would have to be some trickery like appearing to give benefits, yet everything must be paid by the person (infinite deductible?) I remember someone who had an insurance card that costs almost nothing to have, and didn't pay any benefits, but would satisfy a hospital or a doctor who needed proof of insurance.

There's gotta be some kinda loophole here! This IS government legislation, after all.

[donnay]

Its unreal that I have to pay a fine because I eat healthy and dont require healthcare. BONKERS


What ever happened to "No Taxation without representation?" We are not getting any representation. This will do nothing to help the people.

[Southerner]

http://web.gbtv.com/media/video.jsp?content_id=22658205 LOL! @ the dread pirate Roberts!

[Danke]

Apart from what P&F said above, can you explain about the 1%. Is there fear/caution/etc. where it need not be. Tell us the remedies. Thanks, Danke.

You have been here since Jul 2007. Do a search. It has been all explained over and over again.

[wgadget]

A friend who is an accountant at a hospital told me that each employee's health insurance premiums were reported on their W-2 forms. This was in 2010, I believe. At the time, she wondered about it...

[Eagles' Wings]

You have been here since Jul 2007. Do a search. It has been all explained over and over again.Yes, not nearly as much posting as many though. I must admit that there are many issues I just don't get. You on the other hand have many reps and I'd hoped you would explain what you meant. It's up to you. I will research too.

[Danke]

Yes, not nearly as much posting as many though. I must admit that there are many issues I just don't get. You on the other hand have many reps and I'd hoped you would explain what you meant. It's up to you. I will research too.

I'd recommend starting here: http://losthorizons.com/CtCforFree.pdf

Then go to the website and search various tax questions: http://losthorizons.com

There is even a forum there if you have questions. I use to answer them here, but gave up as very few wanted to learn the truth about the income tax. Or they just responded that the courts are corrupt (can't really argue with that), so you had better do as the IRS/authorities tell you to do, regardless of the law.

[The Free Hornet]

Is it possible that someone could set up an insurance company that costs nothing (or very little) to join that doesn't actually pay out any benefits? But it would still be able to report to Big Brother that Johnny has an insurance plan? I guess it would be on a state-by-state basis, and there would have to be some trickery like appearing to give benefits, yet everything must be paid by the person (infinite deductible?) I remember someone who had an insurance card that costs almost nothing to have, and didn't pay any benefits, but would satisfy a hospital or a doctor who needed proof of insurance.

That's doubtful. It may be possible to wage lawsuits against the health care companies themselves. Be as difficult as possible. Don't sign anything waving your right to sue. Don't agree to anything. Don't agree to pay (especially penalties, interest, third-party collections). Don't agree to arbitration.

There could be a two-way street where health insurance companies are mandated to take customers and have less ability to negotiate contracts. This may be wishful thinking. A direct confrontation with the IRS is most likley fruitless. We might make gains by attacking the companies.


All health insurance providers offering group or individual coverage in any state must accept every employer and every individual that applies for coverage. Insurance provider may restrict enrollment in any given plan to “open enrollment” or “special enrollment” periods that meet certain regulations set forth by the federal government.

All health insurance providers must renew coverage should the enrollee choose to renew.

Health insurance providers may not make rules that dictate who is eligible for coverage based on any of these factors:

“Health Status”
“Medical Condition”
Past “claims experience”
“Receipt of health care”
“Medical history”
“Genetic information”
“Evidence of insurability”
“Disability”
Any health-status related factor determined appropriate by the government

http://libertyandpride.com/insurance-companies-have-to-cover-everyone-under-obamacare/

We ought to bankrupt the providers.

[Eagles' Wings]

I'd recommend starting here: http://losthorizons.com/CtCforFree.pdf

Then go to the website and search various tax questions: http://losthorizons.com

There is even a forum there if you have questions. I use to answer them here, but gave up as very few wanted to learn the truth about the income tax. Or they just responded that the courts are corrupt (can't really argue with that), so you had better do as the IRS/authorities tell you to do, regardless of the law.Looks very good and I will read more later. I have read some of the posts about income tax and it does get heated. Sailingaway just posted a video from reality check that is very good. Anyway, thanks for the link!

[robertwerden]

I am self employed, so I have no w2. What happens then? I report that I have insurance and I start an insurance company where I sell my self insurance?
This law needs to fucking go fast.

I'm think of joining the tea party, just so I can scream a little.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

paying a fine because you can't afford health insurance?

[ClydeCoulter]

http://web.gbtv.com/media/video.jsp?content_id=22658205 LOL! @ the dread pirate Roberts!

"They can take our money but they can never take our freedom", really? Someone needs to tell him about "economic freedom" and how that's needed to pursue happiness.

edit: pursue happiness, hell, right now it's hard just to hold on to what we have, much less pursue something.

[Carlybee]

A friend who is an accountant at a hospital told me that each employee's health insurance premiums were reported on their W-2 forms. This was in 2010, I believe. At the time, she wondered about it...

It actually went in to effect on the 2011 forms and was voluntary for some depending on number of employees. This year it will be mandatory for most. They put the box on the form in 2010 and said it was for "tracking purposes to help the employer keep track of health benefit contributions"...to which I said BS at the time. They wouldn't put a box on there except for one reason and that is to tax it...which is probably where it is headed...of course that would only apply to people whose company provides healthcare benefits and they want the entire cost of the benefit in there including the portion the employee contributes.

[drummergirl]

Peace&Freedom made perfect sense to me.


Maybe 1% of this forum understood that.

I predicted it would pass, because like the income tax, it is constitutional (as it is part of the income tax, like FICA). Only a small minority of the members here understand what is being done, and understand their remedies.

[Eisenhower]

What ever happened to "No Taxation without representation?" We are not getting any representation. This will do nothing to help the people.

Ha, that went away long, LONG ago.

[RickyJ]

paying a fine because you can't afford health insurance?

You can't afford to not pay. :D

Sick of paying the damn parasites money? Stop!
Stop paying them anything at all!
Freedom can never be achieved by remaining a slave.

[KingRobbStark]

america is FUCKED

And the people doing it are not even wearing condoms. They are sowing the seed of self destruction.

[Peace&Freedom]

Peace&Freedom made perfect sense to me.

Much thanks. On the 1% issue, this is where the example of Ron Paul must be more internalized. He spent his entire voting career resisting compromise, consistently being the 1% or less of Congress voting against unconstitutional legislation, and taking his lumps for doing so. It is not enough to look upon him as a mountaintop icon. Looking at a distant mountaintop is not going to maintain your liberty. You have to bring the mountain to you and emulate his contrary, go-against-the-flow nature if that is what it will take to retain or reclaim freedom---and take your lumps for doing so. We must become our own Ron Pauls, and stake out our own resistance to the system of tyranny. Challenging the IRS monstrosity is one such battle to fight. In Christian terms, folks, pick up your cross and carry it.

[osan]

Honestly, cant you just lie and say you have insurance to avoid paying the tax penalty?

Prying?

Just a wild guess.

[pen_thief]

america is FUCKED

"THIS" is pretty much all I can manage today. Hope they have plenty of FEMA camps open because they're going to have to take my non-compliant ass to jailz.

[MelissaWV]

paying a fine because you can't afford health insurance?

There is a waiver. I am quite sure this waiver will be used to cover "the poor" that do not qualify for Medicaid. It will be a fine/tax aimed directly at those who opt out. What is interesting is that it seems the onus is on us to show that we do have insurance.

* * *

The best way out of this is to stall. Every state needs to post their own law rejecting ObamaCare, which will be challenged. The states will risk sanctions by doing this. Oh well. As each of these laws is challenged on up the pipe, it will take time. All of the laws will have slightly different language. Tie up the appeals courts and, if need be, the USSC at the end of the line. By then, one can hope the newly-elected Congress will strike this nonsense down. It is our job to ensure that the state versions are not even worse.

* * *

Unintended consequences, btw? The insurance companies are being told they must provide insurance to a whole lot of people, and can turn no one down. They are being told there is no maximum cap on benefits. The only way I can see surviving, as an insurance company, is providing much lower benefits for much higher premiums. What? You say people will get mad and not buy insurance? Hah! It's required! You can also tie price hikes to increases in risk, which is what happens with auto/home insurance now, which is why a lot of people carry those policies but don't make "small claims" against the policy.

[romancito]

You say people will get mad and not buy insurance? Hah! It's required! You can also tie price hikes to increases in risk, which is what happens with auto/home insurance now, which is why a lot of people carry those policies but don't make "small claims" against the policy.

The problem with Roberts ruling is that "as a tax" it opens the doors... State governors are complaining but soon they will adopt even more draconian versions of it. Then counties and cities will get into the game. Why? Yes as a way to reduce premiums (the justification) but as a way to raise revenue and increase employment and college courses and degrees. This is the end of life as we know it. We will merge with China but in a worse way. Liberty and freedom will be historical notions. All thanks to Roberts saying "is a tax."

Insurance companies will tie their premiums to localities that promote regulations and life style changes.

Instead of "a thousand points of light" not it will be "a thousand certified/degree compliance officers and educators, one living next to you."

[Liberty74]

No you can't lie and just say you have insurance. There will be some sort of proof required. Might be paper. Might be your SS number tied to an insurance co. Etc.

I am sure some will try and lie but the IRS is hiring an additional 15,000 people to make sure you comply or get caught lying. The KGB will make sure they get theirs.

Thank you Obama and thank you Romney.

[matt0611]

In Massachusetts we have to provide our health insurance code number or whatever its called on our tax forms. So I'm assuming it will be something like that.

[juleswin]

I wonder if you can just buy insurance for a couple of months and show that in your tax return to avoid paying the tax. Also when they talk about religious exemption, what religion are they talking about? cos I have a feeling that I will be joining a new religion very soon.

[Carlybee]

Some info via Factcheck

http://qvga.factcheck.org/2012/06/how-much-is-the-obamacare-tax/#.T-2gFJ-1t2k.facebook

[DamianTV]

No, all health insurance will be regulated by the government and you must have a government approved insurance plan.

Which means you are REQUIRED TO PAY but are not ENTITLED TO RECEIVE BENEFITS. There goes that pesky ENTITLEMENT thing again that RP has already addressed.

[liberdom]

No, all health insurance will be regulated by the government and you must have a government approved insurance plan.

plus you will either submit a receipt or some policy number for their verification, this is assuming they don't get the information before having to ask ,which they easily can.

[roho76]

Maybe 1% of this forum understood that.

I predicted it would pass, because like the income tax, it is constitutional (as it is part of the income tax, like FICA). Only a small minority of the members here understand what is being done, and understand their remedies.

I'm a 1%'er, YAY!....Wait...? Nvmd. :P

[clint4liberty]

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/06/get-ready-america-for-your-obamacare-tax-penalty-over-2085-a-year/ This is the absolute facts on the health care tax
penalties being implemented under Obamacare starting in 2014.

[Danke]

I'm a 1%'er, YAY!....Wait...? Nvmd. :P

Ya, I predicted it would pass, as it is just part of the constitutional income tax.

[devil21]

I wonder if you can just buy insurance for a couple of months and show that in your tax return to avoid paying the tax. Also when they talk about religious exemption, what religion are they talking about? cos I have a feeling that I will be joining a new religion very soon.

IIRC, it was the Amish/Mennonite that were exempt.

[Carlybee]

IIRC, it was the Amish/Mennonite that were exempt.

Members of Indian tribes are also exempt.

[Lindsey]

I belong to the Church of Individual Liberties. Why are the Amish and Mennonites being given special treatment over my church? How do I get my religious exemption?

[MozoVote]

You don't have to file an IRS form at all if your income is low enough. And of course there are people who work for cash and simply refuse to file.

Seems like if you skip filing for a while, you'd have to report "yes I had health insurance in prior years" somehow or else end up owing a compounded penalty. I suppose ther'll be a new IRS form for that.

[darkstar725]

Three words: Electronic Health Records.




Yes, your prison wages will be applied to your healthcare premiums.

Actually, you won't be required to have insurance if you are incarcerated. Mainly because anything that happens to you health-wise while you are in jail has to be covered by the state anyway.

[Revolution9]

Its unreal that I have to pay a fine because I eat healthy and dont require healthcare. BONKERS

I am almost 55. Last doc I saw was 87 at my ex's insistence. I don't need nor want a doctor. They killed two members of my family. I ain't paying a dime to these clowns. Ever.

Rev9

[coastie]

I am almost 55. Last doc I saw was 87 at my ex's insistence. I don't need nor want a doctor. They killed two members of my family. I ain't paying a dime to these clowns. Ever.

Rev9


+rep

I completely understand, they have taken 3 members of mine, and almost my wife.

Arrogant Dr.s have also nearly landed me in jail-twice.

My wife takes no medication now, had "epilepsy" for years, was on medication for years. She takes NOTHING now, and very rarely has a light flutter here and there, usually right before her female cycle(petit mal seizures).

When she was on meds, she'd have as many as 200 per day of the peti mals-this not an exaggeration, especially during her cycle.

Guess what happened when she missed some meds, or dared drink-even 2 glasses of wine? BAM- Near fatal gran-mal seizures, that happened 3 times in one year...and she's only had 5 of those since she was 13, including those 3. The Dr's "it's not the medication"...:toady:

Dr's said "she had to take the meds, lets try this, try that, switch to this, combine this with that", and ignored and/or dismiss any mention of side effects as even the pharma commercials say to do. Every side effect possible nailed her. Especially the mental ones.

Weened her off the meds over a 2 month period in 2010, and she's had 10 petit mal seizures that entire time, and they seem to be almost non-existent now.

I wish so many others would have listened to me about what their meds were doing to them. I do rest a little easier knowing I saved her life and our marriage from those animals.

[Revolution9]

No you can't lie and just say you have insurance. There will be some sort of proof required. Might be paper. Might be your SS number tied to an insurance co. Etc.

I am sure some will try and lie but the IRS is hiring an additional 15,000 people to make sure you comply or get caught lying. The KGB will make sure they get theirs.

Thank you Obama and thank you Romney.

15K employees will about cover the non-payers in Wisconsin alone. What about the other 49 states? And where are they going to meet 15K smart people that can learn quickly?

Rev9

[Petar]

Maybe 1% of this forum understood that.

I predicted it would pass, because like the income tax, it is constitutional (as it is part of the income tax, like FICA). Only a small minority of the members here understand what is being done, and understand their remedies.

Doesn't the IRS have a law against trying to use laws to not have to pay taxes?

[heavenlyboy34]

Yeah, it's about the money, not health anything, it's about you paying them so they can get their di@k s*c@'ed whenever they want and eat the best foods and drink the best coffee's and hang out with the best assh@les in their #1/2mil cars in the bestest places in the world. (all while thinking of your health/srcsm)

edit: I hope this doesn't offend, I'm pissed...:mad:
Welcome to politics! :toady:

[heavenlyboy34]

Doesn't the IRS have a law against trying to use laws to not have to pay taxes?
No. That's why tax attorneys and certified financial planners exist-to get you out of paying taxes to the greatest extent possible.

[Petar]

No. That's why tax attorneys and certified financial planners exist-to get you out of paying taxes to the greatest extent possible.

I understand that, but there is some weird law against trying to use legal means to evade taxes which does exist, or at least that is what I saw in "Freedom To Fascism".

[presence]

nm

[Anti Federalist]

Actually, you won't be required to have insurance if you are incarcerated. Mainly because anything that happens to you health-wise while you are in jail has to be covered by the state anyway.

In many states, you are charged "room and board" for every day you are in prison.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/12/us/in-riverside-california-a-plan-to-charge-inmates.html

I can honestly see where you would get charged for health insurance premiums as well.

[liberdom]

I understand that, but there is some weird law against trying to use legal means to evade taxes which does exist, or at least that is what I saw in "Freedom To Fascism".

you're kidding, right? Does anybody actually still believe in the old myth "there is no law"?

http://docs.law.gwu.edu/facweb/jsiegel/Personal/taxes/JustNoLaw.htm

What these evaders mean is, "We don't agree with that law". the page I link is not a government page, but its dumbed down for the layman.

This is the official IRS rebuttal
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-utl/friv_tax.pdf

Overall, this is the logic of "there is no law" arguments.
http://fskrealityguide.blogspot.com/2008/11/fallacy-of-tax-protester-fallacies.html

[Petar]

you're kidding, right? Does anybody actually still believe in the old myth "there is no law"?

http://docs.law.gwu.edu/facweb/jsiegel/Personal/taxes/JustNoLaw.htm

What these evaders mean is, "We don't agree with that law". the page I link is not a government page, but its dumbed down for the layman.

This is the official IRS rebuttal
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-utl/friv_tax.pdf

Overall, this is the logic of "there is no law" arguments.
http://fskrealityguide.blogspot.com/2008/11/fallacy-of-tax-protester-fallacies.html

"There is no law" proponents object to the legal equation of "wages" as "income".

If you could show me where the IRS addresses this specific claim then I suppose that we will be making progress.

In any event, I was simply stating that I believe that the IRS has a law against the activity of attempting to use legal means to avoid paying taxes.

I don't feel like looking up the specific code, but there you have it.

[liberdom]

"There is no law" proponents object to the legal equation of "wages" as "income".

If you could show me where the IRS addresses this specific claim then I suppose that we will be making progress.

In any event, I was simply stating that I believe that the IRS has a law against the activity of attempting to use legal means to avoid paying taxes.

I don't feel like looking up the specific code, but there you have it.

sorry I misunderstood you.

I don't know what you mean by "using legal means to avoid", there are generally 2 ways, one is to interpret the law you way and illegally evade, the other is to use the code and maximize your deductions, which is just what accountants are hired to do.

[Revolution9]

What these evaders mean is,

Check out the jargon from this inculcated clownage. Where do you people come from? The Borg Cube beam you down or what??

Rev9

[Revolution9]

sorry I misunderstood you.

I don't know what you mean by "using legal means to avoid", there are generally 2 ways, one is to interpret the law you way and illegally evade, the other is to use the code and maximize your deductions, which is just what accountants are hired to do.

Why don't you just admit you don't have a fucking clue and want others to not have one so you don't feel left out.

Rev9

[oyarde]

The State will set up the "Exchange " your form will have you put in how much you pay , how much your employer pays , or intsruct you what your fine is , fine is 1% 2014 , 2.5 % , 2016 , if your employer has 50 employees or more and does not have what the govt considers " affordable " ins for you, they pay 2k per yr per person fine, the employee then pays the fine they now own , ifyour employer pays $850 a month towards your plan , you now owe a minimum tax of $4080 . 00 per year , or 40 % total , for every dollar over that .

[Danke]

you're kidding, right? Does anybody actually still believe in the old myth "there is no law"?

http://docs.law.gwu.edu/facweb/jsiegel/Personal/taxes/JustNoLaw.htm

What these evaders mean is, "We don't agree with that law". the page I link is not a government page, but its dumbed down for the layman.

This is the official IRS rebuttal
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-utl/friv_tax.pdf

Overall, this is the logic of "there is no law" arguments.
http://fskrealityguide.blogspot.com/2008/11/fallacy-of-tax-protester-fallacies.html

Those are terribly superficial (and misleading) websites in covering the topic of income taxation. Yes there is a law, but where, how, to whom and to which activities does it apply? That is the questions these so-called "debunkers" fail to properly address. Avoiding taxes (legal) is not the same as evading taxes (illegal). The courts have ruled such.

[oyarde]

To summarize , nearly 50 million working poor are uninsured , the govt has come to your aid and fined you for being poor and uninsured , taxed the living fuck out of the person who has the good plan and set a side several hundred billion of your tax dollars to spend on the IRS to hire people at twice the avg rate of the employed to specifically track and steal from the poor , tax the medical companies , tax the people with a good plan ....... thank an Obama voter or anyone who ever voted for a Dem for Congress or the Senate , this is the gift they have for you ...

[liberdom]

Those are terribly superficial (and misleading) websites in covering the topic of income taxation. Yes there is a law, but where, how, to whom and to which activities does it apply? That is the questions these so-called "debunkers" fail to properly address. Avoiding taxes (legal) is not the same as evading taxes (illegal). The courts have ruled such.

You mean this?
1. Contention: Taxpayer is not a “citizen” of the United States, thus not subject to the federal income tax laws.
Some individuals argue that they have rejected citizenship in the United States in favor of state citizenship; therefore, they are relieved of their federal income tax obligations. A variation of this argument is that a person is a free born citizen of a particular state and thus was never a citizen of the United States. The underlying theme of these arguments is the same: the person is not a United States citizen and is not subject to federal tax laws because only United States citizens are subject to these laws.

[Danke]

You mean this?
1. Contention: Taxpayer is not a “citizen” of the United States, thus not subject to the federal income tax laws.
Some individuals argue that they have rejected citizenship in the United States in favor of state citizenship; therefore, they are relieved of their federal income tax obligations. A variation of this argument is that a person is a free born citizen of a particular state and thus was never a citizen of the United States. The underlying theme of these arguments is the same: the person is not a United States citizen and is not subject to federal tax laws because only United States citizens are subject to these laws.

Not misleading, but superficial, perhaps.

[Weston White]

Doesn't the IRS have a law against trying to use laws to not have to pay taxes?

Not that I have ever heard of, only for committing acts of fraud, failing to file, underreporting, erroneously filing, negligent filing, impeding administration, frivolity, etc.

[Weston White]

"There is no law" proponents object to the legal equation of "wages" as "income".

More correctly, they object to the ratification of the XVI Amendment.

Generally speaking, wages are income, but are only taxable for the purposes of the individual income tax when such wages or income falls under the contextual meaning of ‘gross income’, so being constitutional income.

Pointedly, the “‘wages’ are ‘income’” argument is really a withholding argument, as pertaining to Subtitle C of the Internal Revenue Code (IRC); it’s a red-herring.

The IRS in its own Internal Revenue Manuel (IRM) even clarifies that not all income that comes in is taxable as ‘gross income’.

[devil21]

liberdom is a troll. Ignore posts.

[Revolution9]

You mean this?
1. Contention: Taxpayer is not a “citizen” of the United States, thus not subject to the federal income tax laws.
Some individuals argue that they have rejected citizenship in the United States in favor of state citizenship; therefore, they are relieved of their federal income tax obligations. A variation of this argument is that a person is a free born citizen of a particular state and thus was never a citizen of the United States. The underlying theme of these arguments is the same: the person is not a United States citizen and is not subject to federal tax laws because only United States citizens are subject to these laws.

No he didn't mean that. You are gonna have to actually do some research. This ain't nambypambyville yer waltzing around in here with your skewed and inculcated and programmed reality drizzling out into this forum. People here ACTUALLY KNOW THE TIME OF DAY. There are 22 categories of income that are liable for taxation under IRS rules. Go figure out if you are under those rules. Most aren't but pay through the nose anyways due to ignorance and fear. Yer obviously in fear or an enforcer. Whoever you are I don't like your threats ands terminology. You are a big part of the problem IMO>

Rev9

Rev9

[oyarde]

In many states, you are charged "room and board" for every day you are in prison.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/12/us/in-riverside-california-a-plan-to-charge-inmates.html

I can honestly see where you would get charged for health insurance premiums as well. In my state they charge people a fee if not in jail as well , house arrest , probation etc