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Anti Federalist
06-22-2012, 07:00 PM
Do. Not. Call. The. Cops.



Schizophrenic man's death after El Monte police struggle is probed

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/06/el-monte-police-schizophrenic-man-death-investigation.html

June 21, 2012 | 10:42 pm

Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department homicide detectives are investigating allegations that El Monte police officers beat a schizophrenic man to death inside his home.

In an incident the family attorney compared to the Kelly Thomas police beating death in Orange County, 37-year-old Khoa Anh Le died early June 15 after police used baton strikes, a Taser and a neck restraint to subdue him.

Sheriff’s investigators said in a statement that the confrontation occurred late June 14 after officers responded to a "family disturbance" call in the 2700 block of Caminar Avenue. Le and his father had been in a "pushing argument," according to Hoang Huy Tu, attorney for the Le family, and the police were called.

El Monte Police Department officials were not immediately available for comment.

When authorities arrived, Tu said Le was on his bed using his laptop computer inside his makeshift bedroom in the family’s garage. Sheriff’s investigators said that Le “immediately began resisting and assaulting the officers.”

One officer stuck Le with a flashlight, another hit him three times with a baton. Because Le continued to fight, one of the officers used a Taser, while the other applied a "carotid restraint," sheriff’s investigators say.

Le then began to show signs of "medical distress," according to investigators. He was taken to a hospital, where he was later pronounced dead.

Tu disputed the Sheriff’s Department's findings in part, saying a family member observed the incident and said it involved excessive use of force. Tu said two officers combined to strike Le about 20 times with a flashlight, used a Taser on his ribs twice and administered a chokehold, which his family believes ultimately killed him. Tu also said at least one officer kicked Le while he was on the floor.

"It was abuse of the colored uniform," Tu said, adding that he wants the L.A. County district attorney’s office to launch a full investigation. "They’re going to try to sweep this under the rug."

Sheriff's Department Lt. Holly Francisco said the district attorney’s office also is investigating the incident, which is standard protocol. She disputed Tu’s claims that Le was struck 20 times and was kicked by officers.


The L.A. County coroner’s office conducted an autopsy on Le on Monday, but Lt. Larry Dietz said the case is on a security hold and no information can be released.

Sheriff’s Department investigators said Le injured the two officers involved. They say one suffered injuries to the nose and upper lip, the other to an elbow and knee and had difficulty breathing. Both were treated at a hospital and released.

Detectives say Le had previously been arrested by El Monte police in 2005 and again in 2006 for disputes with his family members. In one of those instances, investigators said, Le stabbed his brother.

susano
06-22-2012, 07:40 PM
Sheriff's Department Lt. Holly Francisco said the district attorney’s office also is investigating the incident, which is standard protocol. She disputed Tu’s claims that Le was struck 20 times and was kicked by officers.

SOP: Circle the wagons and above all else, LIE.

Victor Grey
06-22-2012, 10:11 PM
I can do that. Give me a big ass rock and 2 or 3 at my back, I'm fairly sure I could do pretty much anyone in.

I thought the police were supposed to be professional. That's the only reason society is supposed to tolerate and fork over for them. They're supposed to be trained to do what they do better than others.

These guys deserve more than just being fired.

oyarde
06-22-2012, 10:23 PM
Never , ever , call the police for any domestic dispute . I thought , people would know better .......

RickyJ
06-22-2012, 10:35 PM
Never , ever , call the police for any domestic dispute . I thought , people would know better .......

Mental ability is not very high among many people these days, especially the police.

Weston White
06-23-2012, 12:23 AM
Nationally, events such as this are becoming more and more prevalent. A study needs to be conducted on these types of events with respects to police recruitment, training, and certification.

Then it needs to be given a label and thoroughly addressed through additional training, such as what was done for “suicide by cop”, “peer pressure”, “fight-or-flight”, or “mob rule/mentality”, for example: Self-Enforced Incident Escalation (SEIE).

* That is to mean, concerning events whereas, it was actually a result of the responding officers own inappropriate, unprofessional, unreasonable, or uncalled for actions that raised the level of threat or concern (or defensiveness or offensiveness), and ultimately results in a boiling point being reached where excessive damage or wrongdoing is subsequently inflicted.

Brian4Liberty
06-23-2012, 01:16 AM
No worries, the parent just needed a little help administering a "spanking" to an unruly child. ;)

idiom
06-23-2012, 05:47 AM
http://i.imgur.com/ankf6.jpg

At least he didn't call the private defence consortium.

pcosmar
08-14-2012, 08:15 AM
Nationally, events such as this are becoming more and more prevalent. A study needs to be conducted on these types of events with respects to police recruitment, training, and certification.



A "study" ?
at what cost?,, and taking how many years to implement?

Police should simply NOT Exist in a free society. The very concept of police need to be vilified and the nation educated.

http://www.constitution.org/lrev/roots/cops.htm

Law enforcement need to be in the hands of the people where it belongs.

jbauer
08-14-2012, 08:22 AM
Come on. You know that we're never going to privatize the boys in blue. We should spend our energy supporting causes that might actually be benificial or atleast possible.


A "study" ?
at what cost?,, and taking how many years to implement?

Police should simply NOT Exist in a free society. The very concept of police need to be vilified and the nation educated.

http://www.constitution.org/lrev/roots/cops.htm

Law enforcement need to be in the hands of the people where it belongs.

Weston White
08-14-2012, 08:27 AM
A "study" ?
at what cost?,, and taking how many years to implement?

Police should simply NOT Exist in a free society. The very concept of police need to be vilified and the nation educated.

http://www.constitution.org/lrev/roots/cops.htm

Law enforcement need to be in the hands of the people where it belongs.

Officers of peaceful law enforcement are necessary in establishing the public record for adjudication, i.e., chain-of-custody. As I had prior informed you, neither our United States of America nor any Union state is and never ever was intended to be anarchical. moreover, our constitutional form of government cannot be effectively enforced without governmental offices or without the aid of law enforcement. And yes, the powers enforcing the law is and has always been in the hands of the people, from whence it derives.

Pericles
08-14-2012, 08:39 AM
Nationally, events such as this are becoming more and more prevalent. A study needs to be conducted on these types of events with respects to police recruitment, training, and certification.

Then it needs to be given a label and thoroughly addressed through additional training, such as what was done for “suicide by cop”, “peer pressure”, “fight-or-flight”, or “mob rule/mentality”, for example: Self-Enforced Incident Escalation (SEIE).

* That is to mean, concerning events whereas, it was actually a result of the responding officers own inappropriate, unprofessional, unreasonable, or uncalled for actions that raised the level of threat or concern (or defensiveness or offensiveness), and ultimately results in a boiling point being reached where excessive damage or wrongdoing is subsequently inflicted.

Not necessary. Any former police officer from the 1950s or 1960s can tell you what happened to police work and why. As one explained it to me thus: he was actively discouraged from applying the police department because he was told that they were going to check out everything about him all the way back to his first grade teacher to see if he was a playground bully or ever cheated on a test, or did anything that would show bad character. Compare that to having to hire almost anybody who has even minimum qualifications of age, pass a simple test .... and so on.

pcosmar
08-14-2012, 08:42 AM
Officers of peaceful law enforcement are necessary in establishing the public record for adjudication, i.e., chain-of-custody. As I had prior informed you, neither our United States of America nor any Union state is and never ever was intended to be anarchical. moreover, our constitutional form of government cannot be effectively enforced without governmental offices or without the aid of law enforcement. And yes, the powers enforcing the law is and has always been in the hands of the people, from whence it derives.
Never said anything about anarchy. Nor did I allude to such.
And their existence was NOT always the case.

They simply did not exist until they were created.

And you quite obviously did not read the article posted from the Constitution Society Website.

http://www.constitution.org/lrev/roots/cops.htm


The Constitution contains no explicit provisions for criminal law enforcement. Nor did the constitutions of any of the several states contain such provisions at the time of the Founding. Early constitutions enunciated the intention that law enforcement was a universal duty that each person owed to the community, rather than a power of the government. Founding-era constitutions addressed law enforcement from the standpoint of individual liberties and placed explicit barriers upon the state.

Weston White
08-14-2012, 08:53 AM
Never said anything about anarchy. Nor did I allude to such.
And their existence was NOT always the case.

They simply did not exist until they were created.

And you quite obviously did not read the article posted from the Constitution Society Website.

http://www.constitution.org/lrev/roots/cops.htm

1. Yes, that is exactly what you are alluding to, the absence of government, which is to mean, anarchy.
2. Don't confuse the enforcement of "laws" within the territories of yesteryear (i.e., "the wild west") with the Union states of present.
3. The omission of law enforcement powers within the U.S. Constitution bears no relevance to local enforcement of state laws (including individual counties and cities), as such powers were properly reserved to the states and to the people thereof by the IX and X Amendments.

pcosmar
08-14-2012, 09:08 AM
Police are an Authoritarian construct.. a creation.

Authoritarian

1
favoring complete obedience or subjection to authority as opposed to individual freedom: authoritarian principles; authoritarian attitudes.
2.
of or pertaining to a governmental or political system, principle, or practice in which individual freedom is held as completely subordinate to the power or authority of the state, centered either in one person or a small group that is not constitutionally accountable to the people.
3.
exercising complete or almost complete control over the will of another or of others: an authoritarian parent.

It is contrary to Liberty.
Liberty

1.
freedom from arbitrary or despotic government or control.
2.
freedom from external or foreign rule; independence.
3.
freedom from control, interference, obligation, restriction, hampering conditions, etc.; power or right of doing, thinking, speaking, etc., according to choice.

Perhaps these definitions will help.


1. Yes, that is exactly what you are alluding to, the absence of government, which is to mean, anarchy.


No, Never.
I advocate Limited Government. As did the Founders of this country and as does Ron Paul.

"Limits " does not equal NONE.

Weston White
08-14-2012, 09:34 AM
Police should simply NOT Exist in a free society.

And without bonded and affirmed officials serving the public's interest there is simply no way to enforce a so-called "free" society, which is itself nothing more than a marketing construct.

pcosmar
08-14-2012, 09:59 AM
And without bonded and affirmed officials serving the public's interest there is simply no way to enforce a so-called "free" society, which is itself nothing more than a marketing construct.

well WW, I am convinced that you have no clue..
and for any that doubt this assesment,, I would refer you here,
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?385487-RE-Calls-for-Anti-II-Amendment-Legislation-Guns-amp-Ammo-and-Internet-Bans

I do really hope you will educate yourself on the basic principles of Liberty.

Weston White
08-14-2012, 10:02 AM
Oh yes, certainly that must be what it is. I am just completely clueless. :rolleyes:

Athan
08-14-2012, 10:03 AM
Guys, you see... they were training for the SWAT team where this type of behavior is the norm.

Nirvikalpa
08-14-2012, 11:02 AM
One officer stuck Le with a flashlight, another hit him three times with a baton. Because Le continued to fight, one of the officers used a Taser, while the other applied a "carotid restraint," sheriff’s investigators say.

Le then began to show signs of "medical distress," according to investigators. He was taken to a hospital, where he was later pronounced dead.

Someone didn't know how to perform a sleeperhold properly.


The controversy surrounding the technique has led many other law enforcement agencies to restrict its use as well.

After seven deaths were linked to the carotid restraint in San Diego between 1989 and 1992, San Diego police changed their policy to restrict the use of the technique to violent suspects and for no longer than 30 seconds.

Last year, the Denver Sheriff's Department completely banned the use of the hold, following the death of a jail inmate.

El Monte is among local police departments that allows use of the restraint, but only in limited circumstances.

While the carotid restraint is taught to officers as an option available to them, it is reserved for incidents that warrant a high level of force, El Monte police Chief Steve Schuster said.

"It's only to be used when the officer believes it's necessary to prevent serious injury or death to himself or another," Schuster said.

In addition, Schuster said, "The officer has to be trained specifically for the (carotid) restraint. All of our officers are."

El Monte police policy also mandates that anyone who is subdued with a carotid restraint hold must be given a medical examination by qualified medical personnel.

...

The condition known as excited delirium was studied in 2009 by a task force of the American College of Emergency Physicians. The condition is associated with high pain tolerance, rapid breathing, sweating, agitation, elevated body temperature, unusual strength and noncompliance with police, the task force said.

A report by the task force describes the condition as "potentially fatal" and says it is associated with drug use or mental illness, "especially those conditions involving paranoia."

From: http://www.officer.com/news/10733778/calif-police-use-of-carotid-restraint-questioned

Travlyr
08-14-2012, 11:04 AM
Come on. You know that we're never going to privatize the boys in blue. We should spend our energy supporting causes that might actually be benificial or atleast possible.

Police are not compatible with a free society. They protect themselves, their friends, and their employer under the guise of "public safety." The police state came with the counterfeiters. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_enforcement_in_the_United_States) End the Fed and the police state shrinks.


Early on, police were not respected by the community, as corruption was rampant.
And it still is.

pcosmar
08-14-2012, 11:15 AM
Come on. You know that we're never going to privatize the boys in blue. We should spend our energy supporting causes that might actually be benificial or atleast possible.

I do not want to see them privatized. That has already been done and is even worse.

I would rather see people educated about the evil of authoritarianism, and the very concept of police relegated to *boogieman.

*(a fictitious threat,, to scare the simpleminded)

Travlyr
08-14-2012, 11:49 AM
From another thread, but quite relevant to this one.
Article 4 Section 4 of the US Constitution guaranteeing to every State "a republican form of government," demands that all citizens be held accountable to the same laws and the same standards. One of the fundamental premises of a republican form of government is that the ordinary uninvolved citizen on the margins of society is held precisely accountable to the exact same law and standards as a Sheriff, or a Governor or a President. Of course, I don't need to tell you all that our government no longer abides by the Constitution, we all here already know that. But it is good to be able to point to the exact part of the Constitution being ignored as it makes it that much easier to point out the hypocrisy to those who are yet asleep.

Article. IV. Section. 4.
The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened), against domestic Violence.