Corporatism vs. Free Market ??? What we have?

[Lord Xar]

What market do we have here in the United States?
What is the difference between Coporatism and Free Market?

[hard@work]

What market do we have here in the United States?
What is the difference between Coporatism and Free Market?

There are a lot of complex discussions here to be had. I don't even want to try to begin and I'm sure someone will be able to address this further. So instead I would encourage you to look at the market around you right now.

Look at your refridgerator and see who makes the products. Read the ingredients on all the packaging as well. Find out who makes those ingredients. Find out what you have to do to get completely away from consuming those specific products or those products without all those ingredients. Just trying to get started on that process should take oh ... what 10 minutes? And that will be an eye opener for what corporatism has brought us.

Farmer's market tomorrow 8-12pm down the street from me. Thank God for the little guy and his fresh delicious produce.

:)

[fsk]

The USA is a communist country.

http://fskrealityguide.blogspot.com/2007/06/communist-manifestos-successful.html

[aravoth]

Corporatism is centralized economic planning, and government manipulation by an elite few against the will of the people.

Free markets have none, or extremely little government regulation. The market decides everything. The market being you and me. No centralized planning. It's ebbs and flows only move by the will of the people, because none of them are regulated.

[Richandler]

In a free market Kmart and Sears would not exist.

[Lord Xar]

ok.. so how do you deal with things like China's toy recalls or poisoned food etc... is there any regulation on products so that foods are infested with harmful bacteria etc....

[weatherbill]

I don't think food should be globalized, but localized or trading between our people froms tate to state. We have more than enough food ehre to feed everyone and then some..... I think the foreign foods are a NAFTA and GATT WTO deal of controls in place.......
We don't need toys from china.....another golbalization deal, but if we were to trade some with China, we would need some small beaurocracy to inspect or maybe a free market inspections companies and based on performance and competition, could make it run sufficiently, better than gov beaurocracy.
Again, alot of trade could change because of getting rid of WTO NAFTA and GATT........... the people of central america could trade banannas with us and get better wages too, since the corporatizers are using them as slave labor.......If we get strong and not give into globalization, we could encourage other nations to do the same and be free....... it could be a world wide revultion agaisnt the slave drivers and the money masters...... doubt that would happen, but when the Lord comes back and kicks bankster ass!

[user]

What we have today is corporatism. Unlike with free market capitalism, today corporations get huge subsidies and special treatment in many forms from the government. The military-industrial complex, our healthcare system, farm subsidies, an unfair tax code, special tariffs and trade deals, and the Fed with its inflation are just six of the biggest examples of this. I could go on and on. I consider corporatism to be a form of fascism.

Unfortunately, while many Americans can recognize socialism quickly, neocon Republicans have been disguising corporatism as capitalism for years. This is why they have so much support and also why so many people who would otherwise be libertarians are Democrats today. (They see our country today and blame capitalism for its problems, instead of recognizing corporatism.)

[aravoth]

ok.. so how do you deal with things like China's toy recalls or poisoned food etc... is there any regulation on products so that foods are infested with harmful bacteria etc....

by companies already in place. Like consumer reports. Does anyone really need government to tell them to not eat a piece of meat that could kill them? Or to stop buying toys that could cause brain damage to thier children?

[user]

Government regulation provides an illusion of safety. When it isn't there, people know they have to verify a product's safety independently, either directly or through a third party (like Consumer Reports, as aravoth pointed out).

[hard@work]

Don't discount the fact that people still can band together in local and regional governments to take action. That's not discussed nearly enough!!

[freelance]

ok.. so how do you deal with things like China's toy recalls or poisoned food etc... is there any regulation on products so that foods are infested with harmful bacteria etc....

That's the same question that I've posed from the beginning! I have yet to receive an answer that I can live with.

I sort of understand how it would work in a free market, but what I don't understand is how we will be protected in the unwinding--getting from here to there. That's when we would be protected the least.

I saw airline deregulation first-hand from 1978 on, and it's no more deregulated now than it was before--it's only deregulated in that any airline can supposedly fly when, where and for how much they want. In reality, there are only so many takeoff and landing slots, and they all pretty much charge the same, except for the occasional loss leader. Aside from that the airlines face more regulation than before.

Now that we have "open skies," that's pretty much the NAFTA/WTO of the airlines--another way to chip away at American jobs, this time in the airline industry.

It's all managed, not deregulated.

[Pete]

Government and business work together to favor the few and to keep out competition. Some examples:

The federal highway system is a huge boon to gobal businesses in minimizing transportation costs.
The space program works hand in hand with big communications companies.
Perpetual war and foreign aid pumps military contractors.
Environmental and safety regulations stifle small manufacturing startups.
Try opening a bank. :)

[jm1776]

I highly recommend the book Healing Our World in an Age of Aggression
by Dr. Mary J. Ruwart.

http://www.ruwart.com/Pages/Healing/

She does a great job of explaining how we get from where we are to where we want to be.

A quote from the Good Dr. can be found on the back cover.

"Healing Our World bridges the gap between conservatives and liberals, Christians and New Agers, special interests and the common good, with practical solutions to our economic and societal woes." - Ron Paul

[freelance]

Hey, thanks JM.

Imagine that: win/win!

[aravoth]

That's the same question that I've posed from the beginning! I have yet to receive an answer that I can live with.

I sort of understand how it would work in a free market, but what I don't understand is how we will be protected in the unwinding--getting from here to there. That's when we would be protected the least.

I saw airline deregulation first-hand from 1978 on, and it's no more deregulated now than it was before--it's only deregulated in that any airline can supposedly fly when, where and for how much they want. In reality, there are only so many takeoff and landing slots, and they all pretty much charge the same, except for the occasional loss leader. Aside from that the airlines face more regulation than before.

Now that we have "open skies," that's pretty much the NAFTA/WTO of the airlines--another way to chip away at American jobs, this time in the airline industry.

It's all managed, not deregulated.

There already are private companies that do this. But like I said, I don't think people have to be told not to eat something thats deadly.

[freelance]

There already are private companies that do this. But like I said, I don't think people have to be told not to eat something thats deadly.

Well, DUH aravoth! LOL

How do we know it's deadly until it's discovered? That's the problem I can't seem to find an answer for. I sure as hell do not want to be the one to discover it. I want more labeling (from the companies--and I think we can convince them to do that in the long run.) I want to know what comes from China, etc., and I want to know that none of the ingredients used in the final product are genetically modified.

Right now, I can sorta/kinda find out what produce is genetically modified, but I have to have trust in the person who tells me. I know what meat is grass fed, but I don't know if the grass that they eat is genetically modified or not.

I can't down that low in the food chain right now. So, right now, I have no idea what I'm eating, unless it's locally grown, and I just have to take the farmers at their word. And, mostly, I do take the local farmers at their word.

[aravoth]

Well, DUH aravoth! LOL

How do we know it's deadly until it's discovered? That's the problem I can't seem to find an answer for. I sure as hell do not want to be the one to discover it. I want more labeling (from the companies--and I think we can convince them to do that in the long run.) I want to know what comes from China, etc., and I want to know that none of the ingredients used in the final product are genetically modified.

Right now, I can sorta/kinda find out what produce is genetically modified, but I have to have trust in the person who tells me. I know what meat is grass fed, but I don't know if the grass that they eat is genetically modified or not.

I can't down that low in the food chain right now. So, right now, I have no idea what I'm eating, unless it's locally grown, and I just have to take the farmers at their word. And, mostly, I do take the local farmers at their word.

We wouldn't have to worry about anything from China, because if our economy actually worked within a free market, there would be more goods produced here.

There really haven't been many products that were recalled becuase nothing happened. The baby cribs made in china wern't recalled until a few infants died. The pet food wasn't recalled until a ton of pets died. Where was our government warning labels then? We don't need it if we don't have to import from a foreign sweat shop.