Garden State Parkway tolls could be cashless

[jim49er]

Under the cashless systems, motorists pay with E-ZPass or a photo is taken of their license plates and they get billed in the mail.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/06/garden_state_parkway_tolls_cou.html

wtf a photo really ugh

[Anti Federalist]

LOL - Hey HB, I was right again.

Told people this was coming years ago with the first transponder systems.

"You're nuts, you're a paranoid conspiracy loon, GTFO!"

And the surveillance grid gets a little tighter.

[BattleFlag1776]

Under the cashless systems, motorists pay with E-ZPass or a photo is taken of their license plates and they get billed in the mail.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/06/garden_state_parkway_tolls_cou.html

wtf a photo really ugh

Already in place on the FL Turnpike. No big deal, the "State of Florida" simply mails you a bill from their office in Atlanta, GA.

[jim49er]

Already in place on the FL Turnpike. No big deal, the "State of Florida" simply mails you a bill from their office in Atlanta, GA.

Do you have to pay a "convenience fee."

[phill4paul]

Only the beginning. It will come down to a mandatory GPS monitor that records and charges for everything from tolls, to fines (speeding, parking in non-parking, not coming to a complete stop at signs) and taxes. It will also keep a log of every path travelled for cross referencing by law enforcement agencies and court orders from marriage attorneys. But don't listen to me. I'm just another conspiracy theorist.

[BattleFlag1776]

Do you have to pay a "convenience fee."

Ha! No. Just the same toll if I recall.

[QueenB4Liberty]

This is nothing new for me. I live in Houston and we've had EZ Tag system for years. I prefer it to having to carry cash/change and slow down when I'm driving.

[jim49er]

This is nothing new for me. I live in Houston and we've had EZ Tag system for years. I prefer it to having to carry cash/change and slow down when I'm driving.

I'd rather slow down and pay in cash then be tracked.

[ronpaulfollower999]

They've already done this on the southern part of the Florida Turnpike. I've had Sun Pass for a while now, so I get a cheaper rate. ;)

[Anti Federalist]

Already in place on the FL Turnpike. No big deal, the "State of Florida" simply mails you a bill from their office in Atlanta, GA.


This is nothing new for me. I live in Houston and we've had EZ Tag system for years. I prefer it to having to carry cash/change and slow down when I'm driving.


They've already done this on the southern part of the Florida Turnpike. I've had Sun Pass for a while now, so I get a cheaper rate. ;)

Ah, very good, citizens, I see you are well acclimated and in full compliance.

I'll be sure to note this in your records.

[DamianTV]

Utterly deceptive twaddlespeak says I!

[soulcyon]

I really don't see the problem with this system :\

Edit: how is this surveillance a problem, when its only fixed at tollbooths and only snaps pictures of cars passing by.

If the road system was privatized, this is exactly how the private industry would go about charging people money.

[EvilEngineer]

Doesn't matter if you use cash or not, drive on a toll way or normal highway. There are cameras along every road here in Texas, and at most intersections.

You all are a bit paranoid about the amount of data being stored though. It's way too expensive to keep every second of every camera.

[vita3]

JP Morgan is the bank behind EZ PASS

[oyarde]

JP Morgan is the bank behind EZ PASS What is the cut they get ? percentage wise ?

[Keith and stuff]

LOL - Hey HB, I was right again.

Told people this was coming years ago with the first transponder systems.

"You're nuts, you're a paranoid conspiracy loon, GTFO!"

And the surveillance grid gets a little tighter.

+Rep. I am sorry buddy. I would have been one of those to call you out. It just doesn't make sense to me that tolls would be completely cashless for everyone. I know think I am wrong and it will eventually, likely, happen to most tolls :(

[Zippyjuan]

There is a toll road in Colorado between the Denver Airport and where my parents live (E470) and they took out the toll booths a few years ago to go to a similar system. If you are not on the EZ Pass (cheaper if you are a frequent user) you are sent a bill in the mail based on your license place photo. Guess they figured it would do two things- first, reduce the costs of having to pay people to man the booths and second to make it easier for people to get on the road and not have to dig out cash at each toll gate. The tolls still keep the traffic pretty low so revenues are below expectations as well (the toll was supposed to help pay for costs of constructing the road which is quite a ways from downtown Denver).

[donnay]

Already in place on the FL Turnpike. No big deal, the "State of Florida" simply mails you a bill from their office in Atlanta, GA.

Already in place in Texas too. No big deal. How about when this transponder was first introduced and there were promises that it will only be used on the toll roads? :rolleyes:

http://www.rfid1984.com/tollway.html


ABSTRACT
Technological changes in the past twenty years have contributed to
decreased privacy in privately owned vehicles in the United States.
This paper presents six areas in which new technologies have
privacy-invasive aspects that many people fail to fully appreciate:
“black boxes” (EDRs) in cars, traffic cameras, OnStar, GPS
transponders attached to cars, EZ-PASS (an RFID-based highway
toll system), and proposals for new use taxes based on where and
when people drive. This survey is useful in understanding the
cumulative effect of new technologies, rather than just examining
each in isolation.

http://lorrie.cranor.org/pubs/vehicular-privacy-authorsVersion.pdf

[BattleFlag1776]

Already in place in Texas too. No big deal. How about when this transponder was first introduced and there were promises that it will only be used on the toll rolls? :rolleyes:

No doubt. My "no big deal" comment was centered around the fact that the capital of FL is most definitely not Atlanta, GA. So who is really sending me the bill and what are they doing with this record of my travel habits?

[kahless]

This is nothing new for me. I live in Houston and we've had EZ Tag system for years. I prefer it to having to carry cash/change and slow down when I'm driving.

The GSP has had EZ-Pass for years also. This would just get rid of the few cash toll lanes.

You can fly through some at 55mph since there are no booths, just a regular road way and an overhead sensor. The cash tolls really tie up traffic and are a hazard. So this will probably save a few lives. Getting rid of them will improve flow but I agree with some of the folks here that the big brother aspect is troubling.

[jbauer]

They do that in Toronto. Works great since we don't need front plates on vehicles in TN and we were pulling a horse trailer (they couldn't see the plates). Also they're already recording everything anytime you go through one of those speed cameras that are becoming popular. Got a ticket the paper came with a picture of our car a blown up liscens plate and the speed recorded. I had to pay the dang fine eventhough I wasn't driving.


Under the cashless systems, motorists pay with E-ZPass or a photo is taken of their license plates and they get billed in the mail.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/06/garden_state_parkway_tolls_cou.html

wtf a photo really ugh

[PaulConventionWV]

Doesn't matter if you use cash or not, drive on a toll way or normal highway. There are cameras along every road here in Texas, and at most intersections.

You all are a bit paranoid about the amount of data being stored though. It's way too expensive to keep every second of every camera.

You could make the same argument for the PATRIOT Act.

Doesn't matter, it's just a little info that they're probably not gonna look at. Yeah, right.

[PaulConventionWV]

I'm curious. What would happen if you pulled over before you got to the EZ PASS station, took off your license plate, put it in your car, drove through the toll both, and then reattached it on the other side once you were out of sight of the cameras? Would they be able to charge you then?

[donnay]

I'm curious. What would happen if you pulled over before you got to the EZ PASS station, took off your license plate, put it in your car, drove through the toll both, and then reattached it on the other side once you were out of sight of the cameras? Would they be able to charge you then?

Why go through all the fuss when you can purchase this: http://theexpiredmeter.com/2009/01/defeating-red-light-cameras-plate-covers/

[donnay]

No doubt. My "no big deal" comment was centered around the fact that the capital of FL is most definitely not Atlanta, GA. So who is really sending me the bill and what are they doing with this record of my travel habits?

To get ready to tax you by the mile. Acclimate the people to the toll pass RFID and make it so convenient that everyone will want it. It also makes it easier for them to track your whereabouts easier. It's for our safety, you know.

Uncle Sam Eyes Vehicle Tracking Tax
By The Newspaper on September 14, 2009

A Member of Congress proposes to use taxpayer money to fund the development of technology to track motorists as part of a new form of taxation. US Representative Earl Blumenauer (D-Oregon) introduced H.R. 3311 earlier this year to appropriate $154,500,000 for research and study into the transition to a per-mile vehicle tax system. The “Road User Fee Pilot Project” would be administered by the US Treasury Department. This agency in turn would issue millions in taxpayer-backed grants to well-connected commercial manufacturers of tolling equipment to help develop the required technology. Within eighteen months of the measure’s passage, the department would file an initial report outlining the best methods for adopting the new federal transportation tax.

“Oregon has successfully tested a Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT) fee, and it is time to expand and test the VMT program across the country,” Blumenauer said in a statement on the bill’s introduction. “A VMT system can better assess fees based on use of our roads and bridges, as well as during times of peak congestion, than a fee based on fuel consumption. It is time to get creative and find smart ways to rebuild and renew America’s deteriorating infrastructure.”

In 2006, the Oregon Department of Transportation completed its own study of how to collect revenue from motorists with a new form of tax that, like the existing fuel excise tax, imposes a greater charge on drivers the more that they drive. The pilot project’s final report summed up the need for a VMT tax.

“Unfortunately, there is a growing perception among members of the public and legislators that fuel taxes have little to do with road programs and therefore should be considered ‘just another form of taxation,’” the March 2006 report stated. “By itself, this situation appears to be preventing any increases in fuel tax rates from being put into effect.”

The money diverted from the fuel excise tax on non-road related projects must be made up for with a brand new VMT tax, the report argued. Merely indexing the gas tax to inflation or improvements in fleet gas mileage was rejected as “imprecise.” Instead, the report urged a mandate for all drivers to install GPS tracking devices that would report driving habits to roadside Radio Frequency Identification (RFID) scanning devices.

Blumenauer is a long-time advocate of bicycling and mass transit in Congress. Many of his largest campaign donors stand to benefit from his newly introduced legislation. Honeywell International, for example, is a major manufacturer RFID equipment. The company also happens to be the second biggest contributor in the current cycle to Blumenauer’s Political Action Committee (PAC), the Committee for a Livable Future. Another top-ten donor, Accenture, is a specialist in the video tolling field.

H.R. 3311 awaits a hearing in the House Ways and Means Committee. A copy of the bill is available in a 170k PDF file at the source link below.

Source: PDF File HR 3311 (Congress of the United States, 9/14/2009)

[Zippyjuan]

Why go through all the fuss when you can purchase this: http://theexpiredmeter.com/2009/01/defeating-red-light-cameras-plate-covers/
It would depend on where the camera is. Check out some of the things people have tried in Florida: http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/slideshow/hands-feet-paper-obscure-figures-13753701

[QueenB4Liberty]

We have eztags..I'm not sure but I don't think mine is on my license plate. I know my mom's is on her license plate though. I think mine is a sticker with a RFID chip (lol yes I said the dirty word) in it that goes on the the inside of the windshield. I really don't mind.

[LibForestPaul]

I'd rather slow down and pay in cash then be tracked.
All bridges governed under quasi authority are monitored. All snap you picture of driver and picture of plate, regardless if you pay cash.

[LibForestPaul]

Doesn't matter if you use cash or not, drive on a toll way or normal highway. There are cameras along every road here in Texas, and at most intersections.

You all are a bit paranoid about the amount of data being stored though. It's way too expensive to keep every second of every camera.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/ff_nsadatacenter/all/1

The NSA Is Building the Country’s Biggest Spy Center (Watch What You Say)

The heavily fortified $2 billion center or $two thousand million dollar center

[musicmax]

The cash tolls really tie up traffic and are a hazard. So this will probably save a few lives.

Other than Sonny Corleone in The Godfather, name someone killed at a toll booth. No Googling allowed.

[PaulConventionWV]

Why go through all the fuss when you can purchase this: http://theexpiredmeter.com/2009/01/defeating-red-light-cameras-plate-covers/

Because of this:


As you can see from the photos, the Loover looks a little unwieldy and seems like an invitation to the cops to pull you over.

If and when this becomes a problem, they will eventually outlaw it. That said, it would be nice to have some sort of hidden compartment above the license plate that stores a shield that can be lowered at will by the driver from inside the cabin of the car. That would be sweet. However, it probably wouldn't be cheap. That's why I would go through the trouble. All they have to do then is station police by the booths, so that would probably nullify any of those ideas except possibly the hidden compartment idea, which could be used at will in many different situations, some in which police may not be present.

[donnay]

We have eztags..I'm not sure but I don't think mine is on my license plate. I know my mom's is on her license plate though. I think mine is a sticker with a RFID chip (lol yes I said the dirty word) in it that goes on the the inside of the windshield. I really don't mind.

People that say they 'don't mind' Radio Frequency Identifications, haven't really researched RFID's well. They are there to track and trace you. The technocrats are trying to enslave you. Time to do your research, while you still have a voice.

[donnay]

Because of this:



If and when this becomes a problem, they will eventually outlaw it. That said, it would be nice to have some sort of hidden compartment above the license plate that stores a shield that can be lowered at will by the driver from inside the cabin of the car. That would be sweet. However, it probably wouldn't be cheap. That's why I would go through the trouble. All they have to do then is station police by the booths, so that would probably nullify any of those ideas except possibly the hidden compartment idea, which could be used at will in many different situations, some in which police may not be present.


Good idea, you should invent something like that.

Here's another type license plate shield: http://www.sportsimportsltd.com/lasphotradsh.html

[rockerrockstar]

I am concerned with those new black boxes the government wants in all new cars they would use it to tax us per mile we drive or something like that. Probably will tax us for being on highways or something. They could look at your GPS location and tax or something like that.

States are so strapped for cash lately that in the future we will have more and more taxes for instance the red light cameras, speed cameras, and maybe tolls on a lot more roads.

[AME3]

Ah, very good, citizens, I see you are well acclimated and in full compliance.

I'll be sure to note this in your records.
LOL, my sentiments exactly...so many are ready to fall into the line and take their mark....pathetic absolutely pathetic!

[EvilEngineer]

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/ff_nsadatacenter/all/1

The NSA Is Building the Country’s Biggest Spy Center (Watch What You Say)

The heavily fortified $2 billion center or $two thousand million dollar center

It's only got 4x 25,000 sq ft data halls. That's nothing...


KDDI presently operates four data centers in three cities inside the Greater China Region, including Beijing, Shanghai and Hong Kong. The newest Beijing data center will become the fifth Telehouse colocation facility with total floor space of 67,000 m² (over 721,000 sq ft).
http://www.pingzine.com/telehouse-to-open-new-beijing-data-center-15898/

[soulcyon]

Licence plate shields are a scam, same with most "police radar" detectors...

I'm all for getting rid of the ridiculous surveillance operations, but being a rebel isn't the right way to go about it.

[ZenBowman]

I really don't see the problem with this system :\

Edit: how is this surveillance a problem, when its only fixed at tollbooths and only snaps pictures of cars passing by.

If the road system was privatized, this is exactly how the private industry would go about charging people money.

This.

I'm not sure whether this is a pro-freedom board or simply a board of anti-technology luddites.

Yes, technology reduces privacy, always has, always will. But this is exactly how private companies in a free society would operate.

[ZenBowman]

I'd rather slow down and pay in cash then be tracked.

You think you won't be tracked if you pay in cash?

Tracking people is going to become so easy in the next few years it will be ridiculous, and the amazing thing is that it would happen without government as well, even in an entirely free society. Facial recognition software is becoming extremely common, and pretty soon you'll be able to purchase augmented reality goggles that can do an image search across the web and find potential matches for the people you are looking at in real-time.

These are the facts my friend, and unless you want to live in an authoritarian North Korea style nation where the development of new technology is banned, it is what will happen, even in an anarcho-capitalist fantasyland.

Privacy is going the way of the dodo, technology, not government, will make it obsolete.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

They've already done this on the southern part of the Florida Turnpike. I've had Sun Pass for a while now, so I get a cheaper rate. ;)

If you drive to key west , they have the toll booths under construction, pretend there is no toll because of that, then take pics of your license place and send you a toll bill. If you don't check your mail and pay said toll bill, they add a fine onto it. Then if you don't pay, they suspend your license. Giant, obvious, deceptive, theft.

[AME3]

You think you won't be tracked if you pay in cash?

Tracking people is going to become so easy in the next few years it will be ridiculous, and the amazing thing is that it would happen without government as well, even in an entirely free society. Facial recognition software is becoming extremely common, and pretty soon you'll be able to purchase augmented reality goggles that can do an image search across the web and find potential matches for the people you are looking at in real-time.

These are the facts my friend, and unless you want to live in an authoritarian North Korea style nation where the development of new technology is banned, it is what will happen, even in an anarcho-capitalist fantasyland.

Privacy is going the way of the dodo, technology, not government, will make it obsolete.

You seem to be saying that, "resistance is futile"? Well, perhaps you are right, but for me personally, it's simply not in my nature to cease my resistance, I say "damn the torpedos, full speed ahead!"...No offense intended, to each his own.

[ZenBowman]

You seem to be saying that, "resistance is futile"? Well, perhaps you are right, but for me personally, it's simply not in my nature to cease my resistance, I say "damn the torpedos, full speed ahead!"...No offense intended, to each his own.

No, I'm saying that resistance is only possible through authoritarianism. If someone knows your name they can google it and find out a lot about you, how exactly do you "resist" that?

If someone owns a satellite they can survey your home from outer space - how do you "resist" that?

Fighting an institution is within the realm of possibility, but fighting an idea - impossible unless you want to institute the thought police.

[ganderif]

In Houston they have part of the 610 loop where you can only use EZ tag. But, its kind of funny because 50% of the people just use the frontage road where people drive FASTER than the people on the highway. :p

[angelatc]

I'm curious. What would happen if you pulled over before you got to the EZ PASS station, took off your license plate, put it in your car, drove through the toll both, and then reattached it on the other side once you were out of sight of the cameras? Would they be able to charge you then?

If I were a mechanical person, I'd install a little cover that would drop down at the flip of a switch. Or a plate that spun, with a fake number on back. :)

[AME3]

No, I'm saying that resistance is only possible through authoritarianism. If someone knows your name they can google it and find out a lot about you, how exactly do you "resist" that?

If someone owns a satellite they can survey your home from outer space - how do you "resist" that?

Fighting an institution is within the realm of possibility, but fighting an idea - impossible unless you want to institute the thought police.
My apologies sir.

As for the googling of info, I propose first of all to resist in telling the world what color of underwear you wear, (loose lips sink ships) paying cash in as many transactions as possible, posting information which is inaccurate and misleading etc. Satellite views: tarps, covers, underground construction....all I'm sayin is keep a low profile as much as is reasonably possible, and be creative. Wear shades and beards in public, put car, phone, credit cards, etc. in wife's maiden name, etc. Defensive strategy and evasive maneuvers to keep us free. Hidin in plain sight stuff you know...;)

[QueenB4Liberty]

In Houston they have part of the 610 loop where you can only use EZ tag. But, its kind of funny because 50% of the people just use the frontage road where people drive FASTER than the people on the highway. :p

Do you mean the west park tollway? I didn't think 610 was toll at all.

[QueenB4Liberty]

People that say they 'don't mind' Radio Frequency Identifications, haven't really researched RFID's well. They are there to track and trace you. The technocrats are trying to enslave you. Time to do your research, while you still have a voice.

What are we supposed to do about it? I know I'm tracked. I'm sure my phone is tapped and so is my computer.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

To get ready to tax you by the mile.

I'm ok with that to some extent.



No, I'm saying that resistance is only possible through authoritarianism. If someone knows your name they can google it and find out a lot about you, how exactly do you "resist" that?


By being honest about how I feel with people and not worrying about the future consequences. Better start making your philosophical stands NOW, in public, or you'll soon find it won't matter anyway. Once us yappers are done, the hiders will be turned in by their neighbors who think it's the right thing to do. Look around at how police states have operated in the past.... and now imagine them with much better tools. You better influence public opinion while you can. If you think you have any privacy, and you're not a real sophisticated computer expert, then you really don't.

[QueenB4Liberty]

I'm ok with that to some extent.





By being honest about how I feel with people and not worrying about the future consequences. Better start making your philosophical stands NOW, in public, or you'll soon find it won't matter anyway. Once us yappers are done, the hiders will be turned in by their neighbors who think it's the right thing to do. Look around at how police states have operated in the past.... and now imagine them with much better tools. You better influence public opinion while you can. If you think you have any privacy, and you're not a real sophisticated computer expert, then you really don't.

How can you be okay with them taxing milage?

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

How can you be okay with them taxing milage?

Because I can accept people using roads with paying for roads. Just like I can accept people paying for parks, that use parks. Not optimal, but better than now. That's a more fair way to do it.

Although, I think the second part of my post was 100X more important than the first part. Really, who gives a shit about the first part after you die from the second part.

[QueenB4Liberty]

We're going to die because we have no privacy? What?

And no. Our roads are paid for already with taxes...they aren't talking about this mileage tax INSTEAD OF, they are talking about in ADDITION TO!

[AME3]

We're going to die because we have no privacy? What?

And no. Our roads are paid for already with taxes...they aren't talking about this mileage tax INSTEAD OF, they are talking about in ADDITION TO!
...income taxes, road taxes, tolls, and gasoline taxes... State, local, and Federal!

[AME3]

If I were a mechanical person, I'd install a little cover that would drop down at the flip of a switch. Or a plate that spun, with a fake number on back. :)
The James Bond plate? It had like four diferent tags which rotated on a drum! Awesome idea actually....difficult and highly illegal I'm sure, but really cool I thought.