United Nations Envisions Transhumanist Future Where Man is Obsolete

[John F Kennedy III]

Aaron Dykes
Infowars.com
June 10, 2012

The Global Future 2045 International Congress, led by iconic futurist Ray Kurzweil and held in Moscow a few months back, lays out a stark vision of the future for neo-humanity where AI, cybernetics, nanotech and other emerging technologies replace mankind– an openly transhumanist vision now being steered by the elite, but which emerged out of the Darwinian-circles directed by the likes of T.H. Huxley and his grandchildren Julian, who coined the term Transhumanism, and Aldous Huxley, author of Brave New World. Resistance to this rapid shift in society, the 2045 conference argues, is nothing short of a return to the middle ages.

As the video points out, the group admittedly met to draft “resolution that will be submitted to the United Nations demanding the implementation of committees to discuss life extension Avatar projects as a necessary tool in the preservation of humankind.”

2045: A New Era for Humanity

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01hbkh4hXEk&feature=player_detailpage

Russia 2045 dubs itself a ‘strategic social movement,’ with aims to ‘evolve humanity’ and extend life towards the everlasting. The project outlines a forecast for development in the following increments:

Now: the emergence of new Transhumanist movements & parties amid the ongoing socio-economic crisis between 2012-2013; new centers for cybernetic technologies to radically extend life, where the “race for immortality” starts by 2014, the creation of the avatar (robotic human copy) between 2015-2020, as well as robots to replace human manufacturing & labor, servant tasks; thought controlled robots to displace travel needs; flying cars, thought-driven communications implanted in bodies or ‘sprayed on skin.’ By 2025, the group foresees the creation of an autonomous system providing life support for the brain that is capable of ‘interacting with the environment’; brains transplanted into avatar bodies greatly expanding life and allowing complete sensory experiences. Between 2030-2035, the emergence of “Re-Brain,” a reverse-engineering of the human brain already being mapped out, wherein science comes ‘close to understanding the principles of consciousness.’ By 2035, the first successful transplantation of personality to other data receptacles and the “epoch of cybernetic immortality begins.” 2040-2050 brings the arrival of bodies ‘made of nano-robots’ that can take any shape, as well as hologram bodies. 2045-2050 will bring forth drastic changes to the social structure and sci-tech development. It is in this age that the United Nation’s original promise of the end to war & violence is again predicted, where instead “spiritual self-improvement” takes precedent. A New Era of Neo-Humanity Dawns, according to the video.

This is textbook Transhumanism, rooted in many ancient orders and the philosophy of eugenics.

At its heart, Transhumanism represents an esoteric quest for godhood among certain circles of the elite connected to masonry, occultism and science/technology wherein supposedly evolving, superior beings ‘ethically’ replace lesser humans.


rest of article here:
http://www.infowars.com/united-nations-envisions-transhumanist-future-where-man-is-obsolete/

[CaptainAmerica]

its called "Singularity" and has to do with nano-bio-technology

[torchbearer]

UNATCO
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5291/5510712697_83eb037275.jpg

[Kylie]

I don't want to live in the matrix.

I like this version of reality just fine...except for dealing with people who want the rest of us in the matrix.

[Anti Federalist]

The future is fail.

[Seraphim]

Cyberkinetic imortality. LOVE IT. HAHAHAHHA. That's funny to be honest.

[Indy Vidual]

Parts of the future are very bright.
Without tech we would not have the net and we would not have this movement growing so fast.

[Demigod]

How do we become immortal if the make a cybernetic brain that makes us useless by default .And I had such big hopes for this.

[tttppp]

This technology could be very promising in the hands of the right people.

[Demigod]

This technology could be very promising in the hands of the right people.

delete

[BattleFlag1776]

Humanity does not have a master plan of its development. It seeks stability. It lives in the present and does not plan. It preserves the status quo and tries to escape development. It does not tend to map future centuries and take responsibility for evolution. In consumer society’s culture, there is no evolutionary vocabulary and rhetoric. To break the deadlock, the Russia 2045 movement was founded…

Seems I've heard this rhetoric before. Year Zero by any other name?

[Working Poor]

God I hope I am dead by then....

[Demigod]

This technology could be very promising in the hands of the right people.

How does transferring my personality on a hard disk make me immortal.The only thing it would make me is dead.The Brain is all we are as humans it is our conscience for the real word.You lose the brain it is just like going to sleep but without the dreams or the waking up part.

[Demigod]

delete

[tttppp]

How does transferring my personality on a hard disk make me immortal.The only thing it would make me is dead.The Brain is all we are as humans it is our conscience for the real word.You lose the brain it is just like going to sleep but without the dreams or the waking up part.

When you get old and about ready to die, you can have your personality transferred to a new body and live forever. Whats wrong with that?

[heavenlyboy34]

When you get old and about ready to die, you can have your personality transferred to a new body and live forever. Whats wrong with that?
You couldn't take your physical memories/experiences with you. You'd have to re-learn everything you're accustomed to doing.

[garyallen59]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4S4f8AcIpM

[Victor Grey]

When you get old and about ready to die, you can have your personality transferred to a new body and live forever. Whats wrong with that?

Continuity of consciousness, vague philosophical metaphysical discussion talk & ect.

I just see it as hubris myself.

But if people like that, whatever really. I guess I could buy in. I wouldn't consider it as my immortality, though.
I'm not copied data on a floppy drive.

[tttppp]

You couldn't take your physical memories/experiences with you. You'd have to re-learn everything you're accustomed to doing.

Why not? I don't see why you can't take your memories with you. Obviously things like muscle memory would have to be relearned.

[tttppp]

Continuity of consciousness, vague philosophical metaphysical discussion talk & ect.

I just see it as hubris myself.

But if people like that, whatever really. I guess I could buy in. I wouldn't consider it as my immortality, though.
I'm not copied data on a floppy drive.

Technically you'd have to do more than "copy" your conscious. If you just made a copy, you'd still be in your body, and a clone of your conscious would be in the floppy disk. But anyways, what goes on in our brains is not that different than what goes on inside a computer.

[Demigod]

Technically you'd have to do more than "copy" your conscious. If you just made a copy, you'd still be in your body, and a clone of your conscious would be in the floppy disk. But anyways, what goes on in our brains is not that different than what goes on inside a computer.

Yes but our brain is our computer.If I copy everything from my computers hard disk to another computer and then smash mine with a hammer that does not make the computer that I transferred all the data to the same computer.

We are not our memories or experiences we are our brains.Even if you have amnesia you are still alive.The computer that would have the transplanted copy of my personality would just be a copy of my personality and not me I am my brain.

Although this future is very shitty it is still one of humanity's most probable future.In time we will tend to lose our biological form (because of its disadvantages ) or find ways to perfect it ( evolve/mess with the genes )

[tttppp]

Yes but our brain is our computer.If I copy everything from my computers hard disk to another computer and then smash mine with a hammer that does not make the computer that I transferred all the data to the same computer.

We are not our memories or experiences we are our brains.Even if you have amnesia you are still alive.The computer that would have the transplanted copy of my personality would just be a copy of my personality and not me I am my brain.

Although this future is very shitty it is still one of humanity's most probable future.In time we will tend to lose our biological form (because of its disadvantages ) or find ways to perfect it ( evolve/mess with the genes )

The computers you see today are still just the beginning. Over time they can be advanced to store our consciousness and put it in new bodies. Its really just a matter of time...outside of a disaster than would kill us all.

[Voluntary Man]

Cyberkinetic imortality. LOVE IT. HAHAHAHHA. That's funny to be honest.

if you call being murdered by, and then impersonated by a machine "immortality."

[QueenB4Liberty]

NO thanks!

[John F Kennedy III]

Bump

[ZenBowman]

Pretty awesome stuff, the potential is limitless.

Glad to see some elites are thinking positively.

Amazing that this is so hated by so-called "liberty lovers", in a free world, transhumanism would naturally be the dominant form of culture - in fact, you could say that someone who uses a modern smartphone is already 95% on the way to transhuman status.

[flynn]

Pretty awesome stuff, the potential is limitless.

Glad to see some elites are thinking positively.

Amazing that this is so hated by so-called "liberty lovers", in a free world, transhumanism would naturally be the dominant form of culture - in fact, you could say that someone who uses a modern smartphone is already 95% on the way to transhuman status.

I don't need someone else to tell me what's best for me, thank you very much. You could convince me though since you're the one who believes.

[Working Poor]

transhumanism would naturally be the dominant form of culture

I am sorry I don't call it natural

[r3volution]

all i know is that if there is not a nano robot alex jones in 2045 im leaving this dimension .

[EvilEngineer]

The time line is a bit aggressive. I don't doubt the vector that is proposed, however it is not for most people. As they mentioned people fail to map out the future even by a few days. How many can handle immortality with a future mapped out in eons.

[reasondeep]

Has anyone here actually tried studying consciousness? Or the brain for that matter? We still haven't a certain clue as to how memories are physically stored. We know much about different forms of memory, but as far as the nature of how its stored has not been elucidated. There are theories that speak of neuronal connections somehow are related to the formation of memories - and learning the details of that is truthfully so very far away. I'm not saying it's impossible - but considering the number of neurons we have in our brain and the number of possible connections (possible connections exceed the number of atoms in the observable universe). Not to mention 50% of our brain cells are astrocytes, not neurons - the function of astrocytes was thought to be related mainly just for scaffolding the neurons, but that was an unfounded assumption and there are many unexpected things being learned about the function of astrocytes. Their role is far more than scaffolding.

Furthermore, understanding what consciousness truly is is a huge mystery. There is in fact much evidence of a collective consciousness - when you count this in, and try to individually separate a consciousness from a collective one, it seems extremely difficult - almost as if breaking it prior to trying to piece it together again. That is, unless the nature and mechanisms of collection consciousness is completely understood.

I'm not trying to take a particular stance, but it seems many are vastly underestimating the brain. To say it is simply like a computer is enormously simplistic in my opinion.

[Demigod]

Pretty awesome stuff, the potential is limitless.

Glad to see some elites are thinking positively.

Amazing that this is so hated by so-called "liberty lovers", in a free world, transhumanism would naturally be the dominant form of culture - in fact, you could say that someone who uses a modern smartphone is already 95% on the way to transhuman status.

I don't think it is that simple. Transferring to a robotic body leads to the same problem robocop 1 had and that is human ego.Imagine waking up after a procedure to be stuck in what to you will be a metal coffin.I think that finding ways to upgrade our physical form would be much better in the short run.

[KingNothing]

This is amazing technology that has the possibility to open the enitre universe up to mankind.

[KingNothing]

I don't think it is that simple. Transferring to a robotic body leads to the same problem robocop 1 had and that is human ego.Imagine waking up after a procedure to be stuck in what to you will be a metal coffin.I think that finding ways to upgrade our physical form would be much better in the short run.

That's the ultimate end. Basically what happens now is that or DNA breaks down after roughly 120 years, making it nearly impossible to live much beyond that point because cells have a harder time accurately replacing themselves. What this technology will allow is for cell replication to be "guided" or, ultimately, made unnecessary.

Kurzweil's work is stunning. I encourage everyone to read it. It's interesting stuff, and it certainly does give us reason to look forward to the future.

[KingNothing]

I am sorry I don't call it natural

Right, and just as people once said "this flip phone is good enough" several years before buying their iPhones, iPads, iPods, Kindles, and Droids they'll be saying what you've just said for years. And then we'll reach a point where the perks of transhumanism are self-evident and almost everyone (but certainly not everyone) will make the jump.

At some point it will require very thoughtful examinations of our destiny and deeply introspective observations of life, the universe, and our role as individuals and as an organism with in it. It will be a challenging philosophical process.

[KingNothing]

You couldn't take your physical memories/experiences with you. You'd have to re-learn everything you're accustomed to doing.

Why? Right now your statement is correct, but it's absurd to suggest that will always be true.

[KingNothing]

Continuity of consciousness, vague philosophical metaphysical discussion talk & ect.

I just see it as hubris myself.

But if people like that, whatever really. I guess I could buy in. I wouldn't consider it as my immortality, though.
I'm not copied data on a floppy drive.


I think you have to see yourself as a cog in a larger machine, in an Aurelian sense. It requires the belief that you are of the universe and the universe is of you, that first you must overcome individual suffering, then alleviate that of those around you, then spread Life to all corners of the universe. You'd have to live in accordance with nature, as you overcame it.

What an interesting philosophical dilemma, though -- To live forever, with no enemies and your only struggle being to find enough things to keep your interest and entertain you as you travel through the universe or stay on whatever piece of land you call home. It really would require an inner peace, an overcoming of all negative, irrational impulses and a mastering of base instincts. A sort of stoic mind-set, hedged with an ability to.... seek virtuous pleasure and enjoyment.

Certainly, it's interesting stuff.

[undergroundrr]

Transhumanism is one of the main reasons I'm a Ron Paul supporter. It's depressing to think that this tiny corner of an insigificant solar system on the outskirts of a non-descript spiral galaxy is all I'll ever see of a wondrous universe.

I was a big fan of Max More's very libertarian Extropy (http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/2.10/extropians.html) concept back in the early 90's. It suggested that free markets and spontaneous order will create the prosperity and technological progress necessary for humans to do whatever they want with their bodies and destinies.

I would be delighted if my wife, children and heroes (such as RP) lived lives of eons, could dictate their own physical destinies and live with total self-determination. Anybody who believes humans should be limited from this should really consider adopting the non-aggression principle.

What's the UN got to do with it? They can only hamper transhumanism. Good for Ray Kurzweil for getting such a forum to promote his ideas. But his message should be "Get the hell out of my way."

[xkrazy201x]

Man believes in God. Man rejects God. Man believes in Evolution. Man shapes society by his new belief system. Despite not believing in Him, Man attempts to become like Him: Transhumanism. God destroys man. Fin.

[libertyfanatic]

Pass the soma please.

[Philhelm]

I'm me, and that's that. Anything else would be a mere imitation. Nothing good will come of this...

Edit: I swear that the people that think these things up watch movies or read literature set in a dystopian future and think how cool the technology is, rather than the cautionary tale the work is supposed to be conveying.

[brooks009]

Man believes in God. Man rejects God. Man believes in Evolution. Man shapes society by his new belief system. Despite not believing in Him, Man attempts to become like Him: Transhumanism. God destroys man. Fin.

Man believes in God. Man rejects God. Man believes in Evolution. Man shapes society by his new belief system. Despite not believing in Him, Man attempts to become like Him: Transhumanism. Man becomes God. Infinity.

[brooks009]

To be clear Transhumanism is a not a political movement. You could have a libertarian Transhumanist future or you could have a communist Transhumanist future.

I work towards the goal of a libertarian Transhumanist future.

[enjerth]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4S4f8AcIpM


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7D3lHDGRnko&feature=related

[undergroundrr]

To be clear Transhumanism is a not a political movement. You could have a libertarian Transhumanist future or you could have a communist Transhumanist future.

That's true. Human enhancement is going to happen. Well, actually, it's going to continue.

There are 3 roles the state can play.

1. The state can force people into a government-dicated form of transhumanism. What most in this thread fear.
2. The state can force people not to self-enhance or prohibit the ways in which they self-enhance. What transhumanists fear.
3. The state can be minimized and made irrelevant, leaving only self-determination. What I'm shooting for.

[Machiavelli]

Transhumanism is fine and probably the next stage in evolution, possibly. The problem is if it could be used as eugenics or in a forceful way. It will only come about properly in a free market and voluntary society.

[Kylie]

At 3:17,

"May everlasting spiritual ideals and values help to keep us from going astray."

What the fuck does that mean? You're asking God to keep you from screwing up all of mankind?

[ZenBowman]

To be clear Transhumanism is a not a political movement. You could have a libertarian Transhumanist future or you could have a communist Transhumanist future.

I work towards the goal of a libertarian Transhumanist future.

Exactly, amen to that.

[moostraks]

Man believes in God. Man rejects God. Man believes in Evolution. Man shapes society by his new belief system. Despite not believing in Him, Man attempts to become like Him: Transhumanism. God destroys man. Fin.

yep...so many thought cloning was going to be an amazing improvement and they realized this might not be the utopian improvement we thought it to be for mankind. God will have the last word on this. In attempting to make ourselves last forever we will lose that which makes us who we essentially are, our souls. Greed is the destruction of every good intention.

[moostraks]

Pretty awesome stuff, the potential is limitless.

Glad to see some elites are thinking positively.

Amazing that this is so hated by so-called "liberty lovers", in a free world, transhumanism would naturally be the dominant form of culture - in fact, you could say that someone who uses a modern smartphone is already 95% on the way to transhuman status.

Ya know it seems to be in vogue right now to call any one who disagrees with another person a "so-called liberty lover". What's up with that?

As for smart phones being your essence, if that is what many considered their core essence of their being, that is the information stored in their smart phone, it is no wonder our society is so screwed. First dumb down the populace while addicting them to technology, destroy their spiritual individuality and relationships outside of government control and purview, and promise them eternal life as a computer hybrid. What could go wrong there...

As an aside, one of the things Rand said that pissed me off so bad towards him was the comment about punishing people who listen to radical speeches by religious leaders. Now how pray tell can we make sure in a nanny control government that is done? Well I suppose if you become a hybrid then keeping you on the grid and making sure you stay on the reservation would be pretty darn handy.

[tttppp]

Has anyone here actually tried studying consciousness? Or the brain for that matter? We still haven't a certain clue as to how memories are physically stored. We know much about different forms of memory, but as far as the nature of how its stored has not been elucidated. There are theories that speak of neuronal connections somehow are related to the formation of memories - and learning the details of that is truthfully so very far away. I'm not saying it's impossible - but considering the number of neurons we have in our brain and the number of possible connections (possible connections exceed the number of atoms in the observable universe). Not to mention 50% of our brain cells are astrocytes, not neurons - the function of astrocytes was thought to be related mainly just for scaffolding the neurons, but that was an unfounded assumption and there are many unexpected things being learned about the function of astrocytes. Their role is far more than scaffolding.

Furthermore, understanding what consciousness truly is is a huge mystery. There is in fact much evidence of a collective consciousness - when you count this in, and try to individually separate a consciousness from a collective one, it seems extremely difficult - almost as if breaking it prior to trying to piece it together again. That is, unless the nature and mechanisms of collection consciousness is completely understood.

I'm not trying to take a particular stance, but it seems many are vastly underestimating the brain. To say it is simply like a computer is enormously simplistic in my opinion.

Consciousness is just a flow of energy, just like a computer. You have to think outside the box and think of what computers are capable of and not what they currently are to understand this.

[Zippyjuan]

Shouldn't this movement be applauded? It will free man up to persue other things.
Just like sending all of our dirty manufacturing jobs to China has. We are now free to persue other things too. Problem is that since we don't have jobs, we don't have money to go and enjoy doing stuff.

[KingNothing]

As for smart phones being your essence, if that is what many considered their core essence of their being, that is the information stored in their smart phone, it is no wonder our society is so screwed. First dumb down the populace while addicting them to technology, destroy their spiritual individuality and relationships outside of government control and purview, and promise them eternal life as a computer hybrid. What could go wrong there...


You completely miss the point about how these devices are bringing us tremendous, previously incomprehensible, amounts of information, and that they connect us with any number of humans. We're linked to one another now, regardless of the distances that may seperate us. That allows us to more easily learn from one another, to work towards common goals, to empathize with each other....

It's a tremendous thing.

[paulbot24]

You completely miss the point about how these devices are bringing us tremendous, previously incomprehensible, amounts of information, and that they connect us with any number of humans. We're linked to one another now, regardless of the distances that may seperate us. That allows us to more easily learn from one another, to work towards common goals, to empathize with each other....

And play angry birds together with virtual "friends" through facebook as our real friends and family wonder where we went.

[PaulConventionWV]

Aaron Dykes
Infowars.com
June 10, 2012

The Global Future 2045 International Congress, led by iconic futurist Ray Kurzweil and held in Moscow a few months back, lays out a stark vision of the future for neo-humanity where AI, cybernetics, nanotech and other emerging technologies replace mankind– an openly transhumanist vision now being steered by the elite, but which emerged out of the Darwinian-circles directed by the likes of T.H. Huxley and his grandchildren Julian, who coined the term Transhumanism, and Aldous Huxley, author of Brave New World. Resistance to this rapid shift in society, the 2045 conference argues, is nothing short of a return to the middle ages.

As the video points out, the group admittedly met to draft “resolution that will be submitted to the United Nations demanding the implementation of committees to discuss life extension Avatar projects as a necessary tool in the preservation of humankind.”

2045: A New Era for Humanity

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01hbkh4hXEk&feature=player_detailpage

Russia 2045 dubs itself a ‘strategic social movement,’ with aims to ‘evolve humanity’ and extend life towards the everlasting. The project outlines a forecast for development in the following increments:

Now: the emergence of new Transhumanist movements & parties amid the ongoing socio-economic crisis between 2012-2013; new centers for cybernetic technologies to radically extend life, where the “race for immortality” starts by 2014, the creation of the avatar (robotic human copy) between 2015-2020, as well as robots to replace human manufacturing & labor, servant tasks; thought controlled robots to displace travel needs; flying cars, thought-driven communications implanted in bodies or ‘sprayed on skin.’ By 2025, the group foresees the creation of an autonomous system providing life support for the brain that is capable of ‘interacting with the environment’; brains transplanted into avatar bodies greatly expanding life and allowing complete sensory experiences. Between 2030-2035, the emergence of “Re-Brain,” a reverse-engineering of the human brain already being mapped out, wherein science comes ‘close to understanding the principles of consciousness.’ By 2035, the first successful transplantation of personality to other data receptacles and the “epoch of cybernetic immortality begins.” 2040-2050 brings the arrival of bodies ‘made of nano-robots’ that can take any shape, as well as hologram bodies. 2045-2050 will bring forth drastic changes to the social structure and sci-tech development. It is in this age that the United Nation’s original promise of the end to war & violence is again predicted, where instead “spiritual self-improvement” takes precedent. A New Era of Neo-Humanity Dawns, according to the video.

This is textbook Transhumanism, rooted in many ancient orders and the philosophy of eugenics.

At its heart, Transhumanism represents an esoteric quest for godhood among certain circles of the elite connected to masonry, occultism and science/technology wherein supposedly evolving, superior beings ‘ethically’ replace lesser humans.


rest of article here:
http://www.infowars.com/united-nations-envisions-transhumanist-future-where-man-is-obsolete/

This has always been the aim of Darwinism. If you talk to your average, ordinary evolutionist here on the boards, they will say, "no, that's crazy." The evidence is all around us now. The Darwinian theories were propagated through our school systems and our media in order to facilitate this "new society" in which we can help ourselves "evolve." This is the pretense that Hitler used, and it's no different now.

The pretense of helping humans evolve has been the facade used to justify some of the worst atrocities in human history. The sooner we realize we are not products of mere chance and evolution, the better.

"The race for immortality" is a very telling phrase. God has to be dismantled before this delusion can be a reasonable human goal. Neohumanity my ass.

[PaulConventionWV]

This technology could be very promising in the hands of the right people.

The "right people" don't exist. This dream of immortality is a front for global control. There is no technology, it's just a bunch of statist rhetoric.

[flynn]

This has always been the aim of Darwinism. If you talk to your average, ordinary evolutionist here on the boards, they will say, "no, that's crazy." The evidence is all around us now. The Darwinian theories were propagated through our school systems and our media in order to facilitate this "new society" in which we can help ourselves "evolve." This is the pretense that Hitler used, and it's no different now.

The pretense of helping humans evolve has been the facade used to justify some of the worst atrocities in human history. The sooner we realize we are not products of mere chance and evolution, the better.

"The race for immortality" is a very telling phrase. God has to be dismantled before this delusion can be a reasonable human goal. Neohumanity my ass.

Well as long as there's a free market and no one being coerced to do certain things, I don't think it is THAT big of an issue.

[PaulConventionWV]

When you get old and about ready to die, you can have your personality transferred to a new body and live forever. Whats wrong with that?

You cannot copy a personality onto a hard drive. That's what's wrong with it. It's fairy tales. None of this is ever going to happen.

[moostraks]

You completely miss the point about how these devices are bringing us tremendous, previously incomprehensible, amounts of information, and that they connect us with any number of humans. We're linked to one another now, regardless of the distances that may seperate us. That allows us to more easily learn from one another, to work towards common goals, to empathize with each other....

It's a tremendous thing.

I am not missing anything. No smart phone ownership here. Yeah, just call me a Luddite. Empathize with others? You mean like how kind and loving society has become since hiding behind a screen allows people to become anonymous jerks? And some people forget this irl and it carries over as the fine art of manners and respect are lost. The amount of information available is a double edged sword. Think Bing overload commercials. While we are busy connecting with others how many real life relationships have struggled? Computers are not and will not be as good as flesh and blood creations. Go ahead, sell your soul for gov-corp creations promising life everlasting. I want nothing to do with it.

[PaulConventionWV]

Continuity of consciousness, vague philosophical metaphysical discussion talk & ect.

I just see it as hubris myself.

But if people like that, whatever really. I guess I could buy in. I wouldn't consider it as my immortality, though.
I'm not copied data on a floppy drive.

I would let myself die. Seriously, I'm not buying into this idea that you're supposed to be immortal and want to live forever in a world where there is so much suffering. In my worldview, there's something better. This life is temporary for a reason. Immortality is stupid.

[PaulConventionWV]

Yes but our brain is our computer.If I copy everything from my computers hard disk to another computer and then smash mine with a hammer that does not make the computer that I transferred all the data to the same computer.

We are not our memories or experiences we are our brains.Even if you have amnesia you are still alive.The computer that would have the transplanted copy of my personality would just be a copy of my personality and not me I am my brain.

Although this future is very shitty it is still one of humanity's most probable future.In time we will tend to lose our biological form (because of its disadvantages ) or find ways to perfect it ( evolve/mess with the genes )

Comparing the brain to a computer is a very naive way of thinking to me. We don't understand half of what goes on in the brain, but from what we do know, we think it looks like a computer. The foolishness starts when you believe all the characteristics of a brain can be reduced to electrical signals that can be copied and stored to reproduce something as complex as the human psyche. We don't even fully understand how humans walk.

Victory Grey is right, it's hubris.

Our brain is more advanced than the most advanced computer by far. Even then, how do we know our understanding of "advancement" is correct since we didn't create the brain? You'd think we would have to know what we were working toward in order to understand what advancement really is.

[PaulConventionWV]

Has anyone here actually tried studying consciousness? Or the brain for that matter? We still haven't a certain clue as to how memories are physically stored. We know much about different forms of memory, but as far as the nature of how its stored has not been elucidated. There are theories that speak of neuronal connections somehow are related to the formation of memories - and learning the details of that is truthfully so very far away. I'm not saying it's impossible - but considering the number of neurons we have in our brain and the number of possible connections (possible connections exceed the number of atoms in the observable universe). Not to mention 50% of our brain cells are astrocytes, not neurons - the function of astrocytes was thought to be related mainly just for scaffolding the neurons, but that was an unfounded assumption and there are many unexpected things being learned about the function of astrocytes. Their role is far more than scaffolding.

Furthermore, understanding what consciousness truly is is a huge mystery. There is in fact much evidence of a collective consciousness - when you count this in, and try to individually separate a consciousness from a collective one, it seems extremely difficult - almost as if breaking it prior to trying to piece it together again. That is, unless the nature and mechanisms of collection consciousness is completely understood.

I'm not trying to take a particular stance, but it seems many are vastly underestimating the brain. To say it is simply like a computer is enormously simplistic in my opinion.

THANK YOU. I knew we could get a down-to-earth opinion by someone who actually knows something about it.

I am indebted to you a thousand rep, sir!

[PaulConventionWV]

Why? Right now your statement is correct, but it's absurd to suggest that will always be true.

You've got it backwards. It's absurd to believe what is false now would ever be true without evidence.

[Demigod]

I would let myself die. Seriously, I'm not buying into this idea that you're supposed to be immortal and want to live forever in a world where there is so much suffering. In my worldview, there's something better. This life is temporary for a reason. Immortality is stupid.

No one wants to live forever everyone who says otherwise has really not thought it trough.It is all fine and dandy for the first 500 years but what about after 10 000 a million or a trillion years.What when you forget your mother and your father your childhood.On the other hand everyone would like to exist forever.

I have always found the question of an after life very interesting.On one hand if there was a 100% certainty that God does exist than most would just kill them self's because life would have no meaning.On the other hand if we are sure that god does not exist than general apathy will ensue because not a very big part of the population can live with the fact that there is nothing after death.

I see why life is temporary from a very natural point.Life has always looked for ways to make it self perfect.Everything we have around us is a testament of its prototypes.Because there are one cell organisms in nature that are in theory and as far as it has been tested virtually immortal not only from time but outer elements as well I would say that nature tried that option in the start and as we can see got nowhere.

But we are the first creatures that have walked on this planet that have the knowledge to play LIFE/NATURE especially in this time period of our existence not only can we try to turn our self`s into machines as that project suggested but we can play evolution as well by manipulating the genes or even a combination of both.This kind of experimenting with our self's would be best if done in the same condition as nature has done it and that is FREE.Everyone should try to improve them self's in what ever way they want, in time I think we will find better and better ways to go forward as life forms.If you want to kill your self that is your choice but I think that we should at least beat TIME so we have a choice to begin with.

[tttppp]

The "right people" don't exist. This dream of immortality is a front for global control. There is no technology, it's just a bunch of statist rhetoric.

I exist. I consider myself one of the "right people."

[tttppp]

You cannot copy a personality onto a hard drive. That's what's wrong with it. It's fairy tales. None of this is ever going to happen.

You are being very shortsighted. If humanity doesn't destroy itself, imagine how much we could advance technology over thousands of years. There really is no question about it. Its really a matter of time before someone finds out how to be immortal. I'm sure their are other intelligent species out there that have already figured out how to live forever.

[PaulConventionWV]

Consciousness is just a flow of energy, just like a computer. You have to think outside the box and think of what computers are capable of and not what they currently are to understand this.

It's amazing how so many humanists will speak of their devotion to evidence and reason, then spew speculative crap like this without evidence. What a dream world these people live in.

[tttppp]

I would let myself die. Seriously, I'm not buying into this idea that you're supposed to be immortal and want to live forever in a world where there is so much suffering. In my worldview, there's something better. This life is temporary for a reason. Immortality is stupid.

I have the exact opposite opinion. Once you die, its forever, most likely. Once you die, you can't change your mind and say "God doesn't exist". Once you die, you are most likely screwed.

[PaulConventionWV]

Well as long as there's a free market and no one being coerced to do certain things, I don't think it is THAT big of an issue.

That's the thing. It's a fairy tale. The market wouldn't succumb to fairy tales. It's Fearless Leader that is promising us these things in order to gain more control.

[tttppp]

It's amazing how so many humanists will speak of their devotion to evidence and reason, then spew speculative crap like this without evidence. What a dream world these people live in.

There is no evidence because we are talking about the future. I can't travel into the future and come back with evidence. You have to use your brain and understand the basic concepts of what we are and what we are capable of doing. A computer is very similar to us. Its just a really crappy version of us. But if it is advanced dramatically, it can do anything we can do.

[moostraks]

Anyone who thinks the government is not going to try and "regulate" this type of "advance" is naive, imo. I am thinking we talk about what a nightmare it would be to have a true mark of the beast system where there is no anonymousness in any of our transactions.This would be that on steroids. You will be a total part of the system, mind, body, and what ever might pass as the vestige of a soul. There won't be any need or ability to have children, as people will be here indefinately. So for the sake of the earth, we will have to limit ourselves to those already here. Piss off the establishment, they will just turn you off instead of your debit card. After so many years of existence I also think you'd run out of things to look forward to doing. I also doubt there would be monogamous relationships anymore because you would be together forever and no one is enough of a saint that they could forgive another non-blood relative an eternity of slights. Till death do us part? Uh... scratch that. So how long would you marry for? A hundred years at a clip?

[PaulConventionWV]

I exist. I consider myself one of the "right people."

Of course you do.

[tttppp]

Anyone who thinks the government is not going to try and "regulate" this type of "advance" is naive, imo. I am thinking we talk about what a nightmare it would be to have a true mark of the beast system where there is no anonymousness in any of our transactions.This would be that on steroids. You will be a total part of the system, mind, body, and what ever might pass as the vestige of a soul. There won't be any need or ability to have children, as people will be here indefinately. So for the sake of the earth, we will have to limit ourselves to those already here. Piss off the establishment, they will just turn you off instead of your debit card. After so many years of existence I also think you'd run out of things to look forward to doing. I also doubt there would be monogamous relationships anymore because you would be together forever and no one is enough of a saint that they could forgive another non-blood relative an eternity of slights. Till death do us part? Uh... scratch that. So how long would you marry for? A hundred years at a clip?

I thought about that too. I think living forever would end marriages. Nobody wants to be married to the same person for thousands of years or more.

[moostraks]

You are being very shortsighted. If humanity doesn't destroy itself, imagine how much we could advance technology over thousands of years. There really is no question about it. Its really a matter of time before someone finds out how to be immortal. I'm sure their are other intelligent species out there that have already figured out how to live forever.

I believe there are other beings out there who live forever but they have emotionally developed to a stage where this is possible. Mankind doing it for their own selfish reasons is a whole 'nother ballpark on the matter...

[PaulConventionWV]

You are being very shortsighted. If humanity doesn't destroy itself, imagine how much we could advance technology over thousands of years. There really is no question about it. Its really a matter of time before someone finds out how to be immortal. I'm sure their are other intelligent species out there that have already figured out how to live forever.

A thought occurs. Throughout history, the only certainties in life have been death and taxes. Now it turns out the only certainty in life is taxes.

Assuming immortality will happen eventually presumes the non-existence of limits on nature. You can't possibly know that unless you knew how far the laws of the natural universe would let us push technology. It assumes we have endless potential for change. There is no reason for me to believe that's true. I am in this life and it has shown me that there are rules, not to go dreaming about becoming a transcendental cosmic zombie.

[moostraks]

I thought about that too. I think living forever would end marriages. Nobody wants to be married to the same person for thousands of years or more.

I don't think that would be an improvement. It would be sad and take away one of life's great joys and responsibilities, just like childbirth...

[Demigod]

asd

[kahless]

Comparing the brain to a computer is a very naive way of thinking to me. We don't understand half of what goes on in the brain, but from what we do know, we think it looks like a computer. The foolishness starts when you believe all the characteristics of a brain can be reduced to electrical signals that can be copied and stored to reproduce something as complex as the human psyche. We don't even fully understand how humans walk.

Victory Grey is right, it's hubris.

Our brain is more advanced than the most advanced computer by far. Even then, how do we know our understanding of "advancement" is correct since we didn't create the brain? You'd think we would have to know what we were working toward in order to understand what advancement really is.

I agree.

Harvesting the brain and learning how to keep it alive while connected to technology may make more sense rather than a cheap copy. If the technology was that advanced that probably would not be necessary since by that time they should learn to manipulate DNA so that it regenerates so one could live indefinitely.

[PaulConventionWV]

There is no evidence because we are talking about the future. I can't travel into the future and come back with evidence. You have to use your brain and understand the basic concepts of what we are and what we are capable of doing. A computer is very similar to us. Its just a really crappy version of us. But if it is advanced dramatically, it can do anything we can do.

You don't know what we are capable of doing. How, therefore, could you say things like "consciousness is just a flow of energy." How could you possibly know that? Nobody knows what consciousness is. You can't go into the future and bring back evidence of unicorns either, so I guess I should keep an open mind about unicorns too, but until you have evidence, the assertion that the future will unlock the secrets to all the fairy tales that you dream of is pure bullshit. It is completely absurd and a contradiction on your part to believe in the physical universe and its limits while saying things like this.

[Demigod]

I agree.

Harvesting the brain and learning how to keep it alive while connected to technology may make more sense rather than a cheap copy. If the technology was that advanced that probably would not be necessary since by that time they should learn to manipulate DNA so that it regenerates so one could live indefinitely.

It will always go in different directions.Some will want biological advancement,some technological others a mix of both and some would just like to live out their days and die.The problem is we need to be free to get the benefits of this and not become slaves.

[Demigod]

You don't know what we are capable of doing. How, therefore, could you say things like "consciousness is just a flow of energy." How could you possibly know that? Nobody knows what consciousness is. You can't go into the future and bring back evidence of unicorns either, so I guess I should keep an open mind about unicorns too, but until you have evidence, the assertion that the future will unlock the secrets to all the fairy tales that you dream of is pure bullshit. It is completely absurd and a contradiction on your part to believe in the physical universe and its limits while saying things like this.

You believe in god so if you want to make comparisons of other peoples beliefs that is pretty close to believing in unicorns or he believing that we are capable of doing something in the future.

[tttppp]

I believe there are other beings out there who live forever but they have emotionally developed to a stage where this is possible. Mankind doing it for their own selfish reasons is a whole 'nother ballpark on the matter...

I never said we should try to live forever for any selfish reasons. I said we should do it because its the right thing to do. Obviously if you choose to not live forever, thats your right too.

[Mike4Freedom]

http://www.raumfahrt-museum.de/texte/borg.jpg

[tttppp]

I don't think that would be an improvement. It would be sad and take away one of life's great joys and responsibilities, just like childbirth...

I don't know if thats positive or negative. But you would still be able to have children.

[tttppp]

I agree.

Harvesting the brain and learning how to keep it alive while connected to technology may make more sense rather than a cheap copy. If the technology was that advanced that probably would not be necessary since by that time they should learn to manipulate DNA so that it regenerates so one could live indefinitely.

Thats another way to accomplish the same thing. Either way, the end result is the same.

[tttppp]

You don't know what we are capable of doing. How, therefore, could you say things like "consciousness is just a flow of energy." How could you possibly know that? Nobody knows what consciousness is. You can't go into the future and bring back evidence of unicorns either, so I guess I should keep an open mind about unicorns too, but until you have evidence, the assertion that the future will unlock the secrets to all the fairy tales that you dream of is pure bullshit. It is completely absurd and a contradiction on your part to believe in the physical universe and its limits while saying things like this.

How am I contradicting myself? You can certainly disagree with me, but you would definitely be wrong to say I'm contradicting myself. Remember I'm the one who stated the universe is infinite (zero=infinity). I'm not the one who believes in limits to the physical world. Based on my beliefs, almost anything is possible, so immortality is a certainty.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

From carbon to silicone. I think I'll pass, but hey, it makes for a great X-Files episode. :p

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kill_Switch_(The_X-Files)

She uses the satellite to locate the trailer's position, causing the laser to destroy the trailer, killing her. Mulder tells Scully that Esther's consciousness probably joined the AI. Later, the Lone Gunmen get a strange message on their computer reading, "Bite me".

Just before the credits, we see a trailer similar to the one where the AI lived, with automatic security cameras monitoring a boy who approaches the trailer to retrieve a football.

[Meatwasp]

Oh Boy.
All I can do is shake me head. You guys would be completly trapped. In the end you would all be slaves.

[Demigod]

Oh Boy.
All I can do is shake me head. You guys would be completly trapped. In the end you would all be slaves.

Anyone who has read about the Warhammer 40K universe knows what happens when creatures who are afraid of death are being offered immortality in machine form by greater forces.

[Meatwasp]

Anyone who has read about the Warhammer 40K universe knows what happens when creatures who are afraid of death are being offered immortality in machine form by greater forces.
And when they are not any use anymore they will be thrown in the medal dump heap. Ha!

[moostraks]

I never said we should try to live forever for any selfish reasons. I said we should do it because its the right thing to do. Obviously if you choose to not live forever, thats your right too.

It is not that you said we should live forever for selfish reasons, it just would inevitably be the case. It will be sold to people to plug into the system, you get to live forever but someone else holds the keys of your fate. You will be plugged into a grid and all your essence will belong to a corp-gov entity. The analogy to a smartphone applies here. The phone owns people more than they own it as so much can be gathered from it.


I don't know if thats positive or negative. But you would still be able to have children. Re: children I doubt it. The green police already are on the warpath over the "fact" that the world is overpopulated. It will be sold to people for the sake of their own existence that reproduction must cease. As for a committed relationship, imagine the next person you have sex with will have slept with an infinite number of people with eternity as the limit. Eww....Not to mention, a committed relationship means that should be able to trust that partner to be there for you but with eternity in front of you, no one marries so you are always alone or with the current partner of that cycle of your existence with a timer on the contract. What is to cherish when your relationship begins with a specified time frame of commitment? No more watching the children grow up and growing old together. Just one hedonistic pleasure after another most likely because the greatest responsibilities in life no longer exist. Might sound great to the shallow on the surface but I think one will sell their soul much as Eve did in the garden.

[Meatwasp]

It is not that you said we should live forever for selfish reasons, it just would inevitably be the case. It will be sold to people to plug into the system, you get to live forever but someone else holds the keys of your fate. You will be plugged into a grid and all your essence will belong to a corp-gov entity. The analogy to a smartphone applies here. The phone owns people more than they own it as so much can be gathered from it.

Re: children I doubt it. The green police already are on the warpath over the "fact" that the world is overpopulated. It will be sold to people for the sake of their own existence that reproduction must cease. As for a committed relationship, imagine the next person you have sex with will have slept with an infinite number of people with eternity as the limit. Eww....Not to mention, a committed relationship means that should be able to trust that partner to be there for you but with eternity in front of you, no one marries so you are always alone or with the current partner of that cycle of your existence with a timer on the contract. What is to cherish when your relationship begins with a specified time frame of commitment? No more watching the children grow up and growing old together. Just one hedonistic pleasure after another most likely because the greatest responsibilities in life no longer exist. Might sound great to the shallow on the surface but I think one will sell their soul much as Eve did in the garden.

WELL SAID

[John F Kennedy III]

I believe there are other beings out there who live forever but they have emotionally developed to a stage where this is possible. Mankind doing it for their own selfish reasons is a whole 'nother ballpark on the matter...

I'm not sure about forever, but I believe they have found a way to live many thousands or maybe millions of years.

[PaulConventionWV]

You believe in god so if you want to make comparisons of other peoples beliefs that is pretty close to believing in unicorns or he believing that we are capable of doing something in the future.

That's your bias speaking. Belief in God is nothing like belief in unicorns.

Also, my point was the sheer hypocrisy of it. He claims to be objective and then says something completely non-objective and non-scientific.

[PaulConventionWV]

I never said we should try to live forever for any selfish reasons. I said we should do it because its the right thing to do. Obviously if you choose to not live forever, thats your right too.

Why would it be the right thing to do? What's so morally upstanding about wanting to live forever?

[PaulConventionWV]

How am I contradicting myself? You can certainly disagree with me, but you would definitely be wrong to say I'm contradicting myself. Remember I'm the one who stated the universe is infinite (zero=infinity). I'm not the one who believes in limits to the physical world. Based on my beliefs, almost anything is possible, so immortality is a certainty.

Do you believe in being objective? Immortality is only a certainty if your first accept a slew of preconditions that guarantee there is no limit to change in the universe. This is patently false, as we can see that our world is limited by the laws of nature. I really don't know why zero would equal infinity, but it doesn't really explain anything to me.

[PaulConventionWV]

Oh Boy.
All I can do is shake me head. You guys would be completly trapped. In the end you would all be slaves.

Who are you referring to? What makes you think that?

[tttppp]

That's your bias speaking. Belief in God is nothing like belief in unicorns.

Also, my point was the sheer hypocrisy of it. He claims to be objective and then says something completely non-objective and non-scientific.

How am I being a hypocrite when I am following the same rules that I posted on here months ago? You can say I'm wrong, but all you have to do is read my prior posts to determine I am not a hypocrite. And I know you have read my prior posts, so I don't know where you are getting this from.

[tttppp]

Do you believe in being objective? Immortality is only a certainty if your first accept a slew of preconditions that guarantee there is no limit to change in the universe. This is patently false, as we can see that our world is limited by the laws of nature. I really don't know why zero would equal infinity, but it doesn't really explain anything to me.

The point is there are no limits. Have scientists ever found the end of our universe? Have scientist ever found the smallest possible particle? So far we haven't found any limits. We keep creating artificial limits then eventually someone exceeds those limits, then scientists determine a new set of limits. This has been going on for thousands of years. When are we going to realize there are no limits?

I believe I'm being completely objective. Given a long enough amount of time, immortality is a very high probability, if not certainty. I don't have scientific proof, but neither do you. I am very confident that if I had the resources and enough time, I could find a solution for living forever.

[tttppp]

Why would it be the right thing to do? What's so morally upstanding about wanting to live forever?

Because a large amount of people would be interested in paying for it. And it doesn't harm anyone. So who are you to tell people they have to die? Whats morally upstanding about wanting to die?

[WarNoMore]

It is not that you said we should live forever for selfish reasons, it just would inevitably be the case. It will be sold to people to plug into the system, you get to live forever but someone else holds the keys of your fate. You will be plugged into a grid and all your essence will belong to a corp-gov entity. The analogy to a smartphone applies here. The phone owns people more than they own it as so much can be gathered from it.

Re: children I doubt it. The green police already are on the warpath over the "fact" that the world is overpopulated. It will be sold to people for the sake of their own existence that reproduction must cease. As for a committed relationship, imagine the next person you have sex with will have slept with an infinite number of people with eternity as the limit. Eww....Not to mention, a committed relationship means that should be able to trust that partner to be there for you but with eternity in front of you, no one marries so you are always alone or with the current partner of that cycle of your existence with a timer on the contract. What is to cherish when your relationship begins with a specified time frame of commitment? No more watching the children grow up and growing old together. Just one hedonistic pleasure after another most likely because the greatest responsibilities in life no longer exist. Might sound great to the shallow on the surface but I think one will sell their soul much as Eve did in the garden.

I don't mind your skepticism, as this is not a road humanity should rush down without thinking of the consequences. However it is our destiny to either merge with machines or to create machines in our own image that descend from us. Transhumans will adapt and grow and find new joys to cherish in life. I think the technology will find a balance between man and machine. I think that they will find that just because it's possible to do does not mean it should be done. Limits will be set so that all manner of possibilities could be experienced in this world. I would not be surprised to see artificial death being introduced, and the same consciousness being reborn into another life.

[Meatwasp]

Who are you referring to? What makes you think that?
Do you honestly think that you wouldn't be manipulated to pay a price for your longevity?
Beware my friend, beware

[Meatwasp]

I don't mind your skepticism, as this is not a road humanity should rush down without thinking of the consequences. However it is our destiny to either merge with machines or to create machines in our own image that descend from us. Transhumans will adapt and grow and find new joys to cherish in life. I think the technology will find a balance between man and machine. I think that they will find that just because it's possible to do does not mean it should be done. Limits will be set so that all manner of possibilities could be experienced in this world. I would not be surprised to see artificial death being introduced, and the same consciousness being reborn into another life.


You scare me

Did you ever consider reincarnation? At least you would take complete responsibility for you destiny, not some mad Frankenstein monsters manipulating you.

[kahless]

Thats another way to accomplish the same thing. Either way, the end result is the same.

Not really, the end result is not the same. With the total tech method, you die once your body and brain are destroyed. They can copy you however they like but a copy is still a copy and would not be you. Keeping your body alive indefinitely, you would still be you.

[alucard13mmfmj]

Cool, we can ascend to a higher plane of existence... We can call ourselves the Ancients or the Ori

http://www.professorbeej.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Adria_ascended.jpg

[WarNoMore]

You scare me

Did you ever consider reincarnation? At least you would take complete responsibility for you destiny, not some mad Frankenstein monsters manipulating you.

Mad scientist? I would think this is something that would be done either by the individual or with his family, not by some mad scientist or dictatorship that decides who lives and who dies and who they get to be reborn as.

This is our destiny, it's not in man's nature to stay stagnant. Not all will embrace it, and that's fine. But it's not really as black and white as those who embrace it are good, and those who reject it are evil, or vice versa.

[tttppp]

Not really, the end result is not the same. With the total tech method, you die once your body and brain are destroyed. They can copy you however they like but a copy is still a copy and would not be you. Keeping your body alive indefinitely, you would still be you.

You didn't read one of my prior posts where I said they would have to do more than just copy your brain to make it work. If it is just a copy, then it is pointless because you would die and some clone of you would be created. They would need to actually transfer your information to a disk/computer/another body.

[tttppp]

I don't mind your skepticism, as this is not a road humanity should rush down without thinking of the consequences. However it is our destiny to either merge with machines or to create machines in our own image that descend from us. Transhumans will adapt and grow and find new joys to cherish in life. I think the technology will find a balance between man and machine. I think that they will find that just because it's possible to do does not mean it should be done. Limits will be set so that all manner of possibilities could be experienced in this world. I would not be surprised to see artificial death being introduced, and the same consciousness being reborn into another life.

I agree with this. Eventually people will be able to live many different lives.

[PaulConventionWV]

Do you honestly think that you wouldn't be manipulated to pay a price for your longevity?
Beware my friend, beware

That's what I've been saying. I just wasn't sure who you were referring to because you didn't make that clear before.

[PaulConventionWV]

The point is there are no limits. Have scientists ever found the end of our universe? Have scientist ever found the smallest possible particle? So far we haven't found any limits. We keep creating artificial limits then eventually someone exceeds those limits, then scientists determine a new set of limits. This has been going on for thousands of years. When are we going to realize there are no limits?

I believe I'm being completely objective. Given a long enough amount of time, immortality is a very high probability, if not certainty. I don't have scientific proof, but neither do you. I am very confident that if I had the resources and enough time, I could find a solution for living forever.

It's illogical to believe there are no limits. You have to make a lot of assumptions about the human brain in order to say it can be copied like so many electrical signals. As has been demonstrated in this thread, we don't even know how memories are actually stored, so it's not reasonable to assume that immortality is inevitable without any evidence that this is possible. You rely on the idea that there are no limits, but you can't possibly know this. The assumptions you are making can't possibly be made without a total disconnect from and disregard for reality. It requires a leap in faith to assume that humans will ever develop that knowledge or that such knowledge is even possible. Basically, you're justifying calling your own fantasy an inevitable reality because you see the universe a certain way. Your view of the universe may turn out to be incorrect, and your assertion that there are no limits is just that, an assertion. There is nothing in the universe you can point to that would make this a reasonable assumption, much less a virtual certainty. Just because human knowledge has changed in the past few hundred years, that doesn't mean you can make any assumptions based on that fact alone. That just means our knowledge is limited and that we have discovered things we didn't recently know. If you don't know how a motor works and you figure it out, does that mean the motor could be anything you want it to be? No, it means you just know what it is, now. I know that there is a lot of science that says there is a collective universal awareness and humans can affect their own reality, but that in no way implies that there are absolutely no limits to the laws of the universe itself. I seriously doubt you could figure out something scientists barely understand a tiny fraction about yet in your lifetime. Right now, we just don't have the capability no matter what you do, so I don't see why you would think that could change anytime ever, much less in your lifetime.

ETA: In fact, the discoveries of the past give the illusion of the breaking of barriers because we simply learn what something isn't, not necessarily what it is. That is a far cry from the kind of development you are talking about and doesn't even lend any credence to that idea.

[PaulConventionWV]

You didn't read one of my prior posts where I said they would have to do more than just copy your brain to make it work. If it is just a copy, then it is pointless because you would die and some clone of you would be created. They would need to actually transfer your information to a disk/computer/another body.

Some things in this universe are immaterial. Things like logic and reason, which are real, but don't have a physical existence. These things exist independent of us and cannot be copied. I don't think it's unreasonable to think there are parts of our consciousness that are of the same immaterial nature and cannot be copied just by wiring everything correctly. Even if that was the case, we are an infinity away from ever figuring out the complete physical nature of the brain, much less the parts of human consciousness that are immaterial.

[Kylie]

Mad scientist? I would think this is something that would be done either by the individual or with his family, not by some mad scientist or dictatorship that decides who lives and who dies and who they get to be reborn as.

This is our destiny, it's not in man's nature to stay stagnant. Not all will embrace it, and that's fine. But it's not really as black and white as those who embrace it are good, and those who reject it are evil, or vice versa.


That's all fine and great, but have you met the UN?

To allow this kind of power into the hands of people like we have in power today(and that's the only way it will get handed, btw) would be a nail in the coffin of the human race. Now, who is going to change the morals of man in the time we have between this day of consciousness and now? What is going to evolve in us that will allow us to use this kind of technology for good, instead of the evil way it would be brought into play now?

I can almost guarantee that this type of technology will be used(if it's available) to destroy certain "undesirables". We have shown ourselves to do these things through the millenia, why would we not do it in this manner?

[tttppp]

It's illogical to believe there are no limits. You have to make a lot of assumptions about the human brain in order to say it can be copied like so many electrical signals. As has been demonstrated in this thread, we don't even know how memories are actually stored, so it's not reasonable to assume that immortality is inevitable without any evidence that this is possible. You rely on the idea that there are no limits, but you can't possibly know this. The assumptions you are making can't possibly be made without a total disconnect from and disregard for reality. It requires a leap in faith to assume that humans will ever develop that knowledge or that such knowledge is even possible. Basically, you're justifying calling your own fantasy an inevitable reality because you see the universe a certain way. Your view of the universe may turn out to be incorrect, and your assertion that there are no limits is just that, an assertion. There is nothing in the universe you can point to that would make this a reasonable assumption, much less a virtual certainty. Just because human knowledge has changed in the past few hundred years, that doesn't mean you can make any assumptions based on that fact alone. That just means our knowledge is limited and that we have discovered things we didn't recently know. If you don't know how a motor works and you figure it out, does that mean the motor could be anything you want it to be? No, it means you just know what it is, now. I know that there is a lot of science that says there is a collective universal awareness and humans can affect their own reality, but that in no way implies that there are absolutely no limits to the laws of the universe itself. I seriously doubt you could figure out something scientists barely understand a tiny fraction about yet in your lifetime. Right now, we just don't have the capability no matter what you do, so I don't see why you would think that could change anytime ever, much less in your lifetime.

ETA: In fact, the discoveries of the past give the illusion of the breaking of barriers because we simply learn what something isn't, not necessarily what it is. That is a far cry from the kind of development you are talking about and doesn't even lend any credence to that idea.

Basically this all comes down to limits. If there are no limits, then immortality is basically a certainty. If there are limits, then immortality might not be possible. As I stated, there is no proof of limits. Nobody has discovered an edge to the universe. Nobody has discovered the smallest particle in the universe. Until they do, there is no proof that you are correct. I at least have a theory of mine that explains how things are unlimited. There is no valid theory of everything that explains how things are limited. There is the big bang theory, but that is severely flawed, and there are many different interpretations of the big bang theory.

I wouldn't count me out in figuring out this problem. Most scientists are stupid, thats why they haven't figured out anything. Like most people, they have tunnel vision. They try to pay attention to small meaningless details, but never take a look at the big picture. You have to be able to understand the big picture to figure out big things like this.

Additionally, everything is made out of the same stuff, energy. It is illogical to say that its impossible for a computer to do the same things as a human when they are both made out of the same stuff.

[tttppp]

Some things in this universe are immaterial. Things like logic and reason, which are real, but don't have a physical existence. These things exist independent of us and cannot be copied. I don't think it's unreasonable to think there are parts of our consciousness that are of the same immaterial nature and cannot be copied just by wiring everything correctly. Even if that was the case, we are an infinity away from ever figuring out the complete physical nature of the brain, much less the parts of human consciousness that are immaterial.

This is largely due to the incompetence of western medicine as a whole. Thats not to say its impossible to figure out the brain. We just need to start funding smart people who want to study the brain for smart reasons. You know this, the vast majority of money in healthcare goes to projects that have zero chance of ever helping anyone. This needs to change, or else you are right, we are an infinity away from figuring out the brain.

[PaulConventionWV]

Basically this all comes down to limits. If there are no limits, then immortality is basically a certainty. If there are limits, then immortality might not be possible. As I stated, there is no proof of limits. Nobody has discovered an edge to the universe. Nobody has discovered the smallest particle in the universe. Until they do, there is no proof that you are correct. I at least have a theory of mine that explains how things are unlimited. There is no valid theory of everything that explains how things are limited. There is the big bang theory, but that is severely flawed, and there are many different interpretations of the big bang theory.

I wouldn't count me out in figuring out this problem. Most scientists are stupid, thats why they haven't figured out anything. Like most people, they have tunnel vision. They try to pay attention to small meaningless details, but never take a look at the big picture. You have to be able to understand the big picture to figure out big things like this.

Additionally, everything is made out of the same stuff, energy. It is illogical to say that its impossible for a computer to do the same things as a human when they are both made out of the same stuff.

Limits are self-evident. You cannot do certain things even if you try. Try to do something you can't do. I bet you can't do it.

And LOL at your "scientists are stupid" spiel. I will bet you any amount of money that you will never do the things you are talking about. You can't do them. It's so easy to use generalized language like "the big picture" to explain how you're so much smarter than everyone else.

Please, just stop embarrassing yourself.

Some things aren't made out of "stuff" you know.

[tttppp]

Limits are self-evident. You cannot do certain things even if you try. Try to do something you can't do. I bet you can't do it.

And LOL at your "scientists are stupid" spiel. I will bet you any amount of money that you will never do the things you are talking about. You can't do them. It's so easy to use generalized language like "the big picture" to explain how you're so much smarter than everyone else.

Please, just stop embarrassing yourself.

Some things aren't made out of "stuff" you know.

Thats a very poor example of limits. Just because you can't do something today, doesn't mean you can't do that tomorrow.

I never said I could do those things in my lifetime. However, if I lived long enough, I could guarantee you that I would accomplish finding a solution for living forever, and many more solutions. Just because I post on this site, doesn't make me an idiot.

You have a very poor grasp on this topic. If you don't understand that everything is made up of energy, I really don't know where your head is.

[Aratus]

mars looms, and then the stars

[tttppp]

How am I being a hypocrite when I am following the same rules that I posted on here months ago? You can say I'm wrong, but all you have to do is read my prior posts to determine I am not a hypocrite. And I know you have read my prior posts, so I don't know where you are getting this from.

PaulConventionWV you still have not replied to this post. I would love to hear your explanation for why I am a hypocrite.

[WarNoMore]

That's all fine and great, but have you met the UN?

To allow this kind of power into the hands of people like we have in power today(and that's the only way it will get handed, btw) would be a nail in the coffin of the human race. Now, who is going to change the morals of man in the time we have between this day of consciousness and now? What is going to evolve in us that will allow us to use this kind of technology for good, instead of the evil way it would be brought into play now?

I can almost guarantee that this type of technology will be used(if it's available) to destroy certain "undesirables". We have shown ourselves to do these things through the millenia, why would we not do it in this manner?


I feel that a lot of the underlying conditions that cause people to do evil things will be solved through our technological progress towards transhumanism. As we solve the energy, food, property/shelter, etc. problems people face, what reason will there be to do evil to your fellow man?

There will only be a small percentage of people doing evil things, the psychopaths whose nature it is to cause harm to others for their own satisfaction. Will the people put up with this kind of behavior once it's viewed in all it's nakedness? No justifications, no excuses, it's just pure evil. I think the people will reject this kind of behavior.

[moostraks]

I feel that a lot of the underlying conditions that cause people to do evil things will be solved through our technological progress towards transhumanism. As we solve the energy, food, property/shelter, etc. problems people face, what reason will there be to do evil to your fellow man?

There will only be a small percentage of people doing evil things, the psychopaths whose nature it is to cause harm to others for their own satisfaction. Will the people put up with this kind of behavior once it's viewed in all it's nakedness? No justifications, no excuses, it's just pure evil. I think the people will reject this kind of behavior.

A sizeable portion of people in America operate on a personal philosophy of greed and the means justifies the ends despite having their needs secured. It is pushed in government education and propaganda. Technology has not improved man's humanity towards man or fellow creatures, but created a largely narcississtic society. When all of man's needs are taken care, man will fight over their wants. Think along the lines of how people behave on Black Friday. There would have to be a major change in the current trajectory of human behavior for your version of future events to occur...

[Kylie]

A sizeable portion of people in America operate on a personal philosophy of greed and the means justifies the ends despite having their needs secured. It is pushed in government education and propaganda. Technology has not improved man's humanity towards man or fellow creatures, but created a largely narcississtic society. When all of man's needs are taken care, man will fight over their wants. Think along the lines of how people behave on Black Friday. There would have to be a major change in the current trajectory of human behavior for your version of future events to occur...


And if it were to go the way you describe, it would be infinity worse than what we have even now. I don't know how you make someone care about themselves and want to do right if they don't want to be that way. So you only have a few other options. But then again, with this trans-thingie you'll be breeding out the bad traits in humans too(which is a whole nother moral argument) so maybe after several hundred generations you could breed the "golden retriever" of humans?

[WarNoMore]

A sizeable portion of people in America operate on a personal philosophy of greed and the means justifies the ends despite having their needs secured. It is pushed in government education and propaganda. Technology has not improved man's humanity towards man or fellow creatures, but created a largely narcississtic society. When all of man's needs are taken care, man will fight over their wants. Think along the lines of how people behave on Black Friday. There would have to be a major change in the current trajectory of human behavior for your version of future events to occur...

That system is already decaying.The authority of the state is being questioned in large numbers globally thanks to the advancement of technology, ie the internet. As technology continues to advance I feel the society will naturally move in a new direction. Towards freedom, not slavery.

[undergroundrr]

My observation is that those who expect an appealing afterlife tend to disapprove of extending human life spans beyond 100 or so.

I'm curious. Are there any afterlife adherents, Christian or otherwise, who are okay with extreme longevity?

[moostraks]

That system is already decaying.The authority of the state is being questioned in large numbers globally thanks to the advancement of technology, ie the internet. As technology continues to advance I feel the society will naturally move in a new direction. Towards freedom, not slavery.

You seem to be unaware of the level of narcississim that is growing with technology. People sitting at dinner tables all plugged into their online friends, ignoring those people right next to them. Children that can't go in a car or in a store without some electronic nanny.

As for the anti-state sentiment, people are largely anti-state for personal oftentimes selfish reasons not for altruistic reasons.

[John F Kennedy III]

My observation is that those who expect an appealing afterlife tend to disapprove of extending human life spans beyond 100 or so.

I'm curious. Are there any afterlife adherents, Christian or otherwise, who are okay with extreme longevity?


I like this question. I hope someone answers.

[r3volution]

I like this question. I hope someone answers. i am agnostic but read the bible many years ago and remember people in it being like 300 or so years old .

[jmdrake]

My observation is that those who expect an appealing afterlife tend to disapprove of extending human life spans beyond 100 or so.

I'm curious. Are there any afterlife adherents, Christian or otherwise, who are okay with extreme longevity?

I'm cool with extreme longevity. I'm not cool with humanity being replaced by some silicon based facsimile. I'm definitely not cool with some "world wide mind" where we're all linked through some cyber-neural interface and no longer have any privacy.

See: http://thoughtware.tv/videos/show/44-22nd-Century-From-Pbs

[r3volution]

i just always assumed that was either the wrong translation or they used a different measurement for years than we do now . dunno .

[Demigod]

I'm cool with extreme longevity. I'm not cool with humanity being replaced by some silicon based facsimile. I'm definitely not cool with some "world wide mind" where we're all linked through some cyber-neural interface and no longer have any privacy.

See: http://thoughtware.tv/videos/show/44-22nd-Century-From-Pbs

Well you have to understand that the video is bullshit anyway.The part where they transfer a conciseness to a hard disk is beyond stupid.Never mind that abandoning physical form would be a bad idea as it can get.

I hope that by the time it is time for dying life will be extended to at least a 100.I am an atheist and although I have accepted death ( it would get boring after the first million years :D anyway ) I am still not that eager to meet it.

[Demigod]

i just always assumed that was either the wrong translation or they used a different measurement for years than we do now . dunno .

There was a group of villages in South America that officially had the most 100+ year old's on the planed.They claimed it was because of the mountain water in the end it turned out that after 40 they measured years for one.After 60 they would add 5 and after 80 10 years for every year.

So I would guess they made the same kind of counting in the Bible

[WarNoMore]

You seem to be unaware of the level of narcississim that is growing with technology. People sitting at dinner tables all plugged into their online friends, ignoring those people right next to them. Children that can't go in a car or in a store without some electronic nanny.

As for the anti-state sentiment, people are largely anti-state for personal oftentimes selfish reasons not for altruistic reasons.

I'm not particularly bothered by the alleged narcissism. I don't think it's a sign of malevolence. Selfish people aren't necessarily evil people. As you point out, people can come to the right conclusions out of pure self interest. To resist the authority of the state because of it's threat to your personal freedom and livelihood is just as good a reason as any.

As technology advances, I think the emperor will be revealed in all his nakedness. There will come a time when the majority will be able to realise the benefits of big government is far outweighed by its detriments. Unless governments push for even greater tyranny, it will not be able to stop it's own subjugation. As governments push for more draconian laws, the people will resist in greater numbers.

[PaulConventionWV]

My observation is that those who expect an appealing afterlife tend to disapprove of extending human life spans beyond 100 or so.

I'm curious. Are there any afterlife adherents, Christian or otherwise, who are okay with extreme longevity?

I know it's a bit late, but I thought I would point out that people lived to be multiple hundreds of years old in the days before the Biblical flood. It's not that I have a problem with it, I just don't necessarily cherish the idea of a long life.

[ClydeCoulter]

I'm cool with extreme longevity. I'm not cool with humanity being replaced by some silicon based facsimile. I'm definitely not cool with some "world wide mind" where we're all linked through some cyber-neural interface and no longer have any privacy.

See: http://thoughtware.tv/videos/show/44-22nd-Century-From-Pbs

We already have examples of a "world wide mind" in our history, ie, religion.
I see it as a new control mechanism in many respects. You would be afraid, again, to question what is accepted by the "whole". And in this case, the "whole" would know your questioning thoughts (if that would even still be possible)?