RNC Delegates: Organizing for Tampa

[GunnyFreedom]

Good morning everybody,

As a primary pledged RNC Delegate for Ron Paul from North Carolina to Tampa Florida, it is my goal to help solidify and unify a Paul delegation from around the nation to the RNC convention. If we go as 50 insulated, divided states, we will be easily subjugated, but if we go as a unified Paul delegation, we will come away with as much or more than our numbers rate.

One of our most important battles will be for the platform. Rick Santorum has already thrown down the gauntlet and telegraphed his intention to fight for his vision of the platform. We Paulers cannot allow that to happen. Santorum people will be unified because that's the sort of people they are. We Paulers will tend to buck unity because that's the sort of people we are. We must come together if we are to prevail in this fight.

We need to start networking Paul delegates now, and particularly those Paul delegates who have been nominated to the Resolutions (Platform) Committee that meets a week ahead of time in Tampa. We need to start reviewing the RNC platform NOW and establish the sort of transformation we want and put forward a cohesive plan to fight for it.

We need your help if we are going to prevail. We cannot allow division and disunity to split us on the eve of this critical battle. We are heading for war in Tampa, and if we are going to win we have to put our egos aside and work together.

Come on ladies and gentlemen...let's do this!

For Liberty!

Glen Bradley

[Lightweis]

Im a delegate from Virginia! +rep

[GunnyFreedom]

Thank you Lightweis, stay tuned to this thread for some organizational tools to come. We have around 200+ pledged Paul delegates, and another 300 pledged to vote for other candidates. Of those 500, our most critical first step will be identifying Paulers on the platform committee. In the meantime, I will be downloading a copy of the RNC platform and examining it, hopefully to put is somewhere where the movement at large can work on it and produce something befitting the extraordinary gains we have made in the last 5 years.

[sailingaway]

Some delegates should not necessarily announce themselves on the board, or even to eachother if they don't know if the 'other' is really supporting someone else. We need to keep full identities and numbers a bit close to the vest. But I would think you ALL could pm Gunny and he could coordinate.

[thatpeculiarcat]

Tell us non-delegates what you want us to do Glen and we'd be glad to help in anyway we can.

[eleganz]

Non-delegates should get the word out as soon as those lawyers set in stone that no delegate shall be bound.

Other than that, vet the military and vets out to the Vets for RP at RNC...that is the strongest lobbying power we have other other delegates.

[GunnyFreedom]

Some delegates should not necessarily announce themselves on the board, or even to eachother if they don't know if the 'other' is really supporting someone else. We need to keep full identities and numbers a bit close to the vest. But I would think you ALL could pm Gunny and he could coordinate.

Fortunately, the RPF's usernames are pretty anonymous. When we in NC were going into the NC State Conventions in 2008, I set up a mailman list that was fully 2-way anonymous, so nobody knew who anybody was. We probably don't need to go that drastic, but I also know in NC that delegates are bound by State law rather than party rules, so the NC delegation will be voting our pledges lest we come home to a jail cell. :p

For the purposes of this particular effort, I will be focusing on the platform battle. Votes at the RNC for the nomination, as I am sure the Paul Campaign will also say, will be on the individual conscience of the delegate in question. As a delegate from a State that has no choice but to vote our pledges (fortunately I am pledged to Paul) I should not be the one to organize that particular effort, but I can in good conscience organize the platform fight.

[jay_dub]

You all will be carrying the hopes of millions, not just from here but from around the world with you into Tampa.

Godspeed.

[GunnyFreedom]

Non-delegates should get the word out as soon as those lawyers set in stone that no delegate shall be bound.

Other than that, vet the military and vets out to the Vets for RP at RNC...that is the strongest lobbying power we have other other delegates.

Be careful making that blanket statement. In North Carolina delegates to national conventions are not bound by Party rules but by State law. NC Delegates who violate their pledges will come home to find themselves arrested by State Police.

[eleganz]

Be careful making that blanket statement. In North Carolina delegates to national conventions are not bound by Party rules but by State law. NC Delegates who violate their pledges will come home to find themselves arrested by State Police.

Doesn't federal law override state law?

[GunnyFreedom]

Tell us non-delegates what you want us to do Glen and we'd be glad to help in anyway we can.

The most important thing will be to discover representatives from Paul delegations in all 50 States, and territories, and particularly focusing on any Paul delegates that have been nominated to the Resolutions (Platform) committee.

Some STates that have been the subject of complete Pauler takeovers may not even know that they are supposed to select members to the five RNC committees, nor that the platform committee meets a week earlier than the convention starts. It would be a .... tragedy ... if one of the Pauler takepover States like Maine did not have a delegate ont he platform committee.

[GunnyFreedom]

Doesn't federal law override state law?

Does the US Constitution give the FBI the authority to tell the States how to treat their Party convention delegates?

It is arguable whether the US Constitution even gives the authority for the FBI, period.

Federal Law only trumps State law in those areas where the US Constitution provides Article 6 supremacy.

Mind you, they State of NC only enforces their binding law when it goes against statism, if pledged Paulers were to vote Romney nobody would bat an eye, but you can be sure if NC pledged Romney's were to vote Paul, the State Police would be awaiting the delegate's return.

[jay_dub]

Be careful making that blanket statement. In North Carolina delegates to national conventions are not bound by Party rules but by State law. NC Delegates who violate their pledges will come home to find themselves arrested by State Police.

I think this might be what is being referred to.

http://www.dailypaul.com/236908/federal-laws-proving-binding-of-delegates-is-illegal

[GunnyFreedom]

I think this might be what is being referred to.

http://www.dailypaul.com/236908/federal-laws-proving-binding-of-delegates-is-illegal

If we had the majority at the State Convention (we did not) we could have 'adopted the national rules' in the executive committee which would have effectively unbound the delegates as discussed ad nauseum previously.

Until then, the NC General Statues effect the binding of delegates. This is only the case in like three States, and in the case of NC, nearly everybody is bound to whom they want to vote for anyway, except for a few Santorum delegates who actually support Paul.


§ 163‑213.8. Allocation of delegate positions to reflect division of votes in the primary.

(a) Upon completion and certification of the primary results by the State Board of Elections, the Secretary of State shall certify the results to the State chairman of each political party.
Each political party shall allocate delegate positions in a manner which reflects the division of votes of the party primary consistent with the national party rules of that political party.

(b) In case of conflict between subsection (a) of this section and the national rules of a political party, the State executive committee of that party has the authority to resolve the conflict by adopting for that party the national rules, which shall then supercede any provision in subsection (a) of this section with which it conflicts, provided that the executive committee shall take only such action under this subsection necessary to resolve the conflict. (1971, c. 225; 1975, c. 744; 1979, c. 800; 1983, c. 216, ss. 1, 2.)

The RNC would be forced to recognize votes that are cast (illegally per NC Statute) but then the delegate would face a violation of State law upon return.

For the 47 US States that only bind per party rules, I agree with the former analysis. For the 3 states that bind by State law, that's one heckuva battle to fight. How do you think the Federal courts are going to rule?

[GunnyFreedom]

My back-of-the-napkin analysis says that the Federal Courts will be reluctant to disrupt the "stability" of the nomination process when established by State Law, and rule that the delegate made their decision when pledging for their chosen nominee. We all know that the Federal Courts don't really care about principle or Constitution except when those may justify their preconceived decisions. If we were calling into question more than 5-6 Santorum delegates, and those delegates were brave enough to face prison, well, then that would be their decision to make.

In states where delegates are not bound by State Law, I'd say go for it.

But RNC nomination votes don't need organizing. Every delegate will vote their conscience as they should.

What needs organizing is the platform fight.

[GunnyFreedom]

Iowa, Alaska, and Maine need to know NOW that they should nominate people for the RNC committees, particularly the Resolutions (Platform) Committee.

We NEED Paulers on that committee. In NC we were steam-rolled and had our worst enemy in the party selected for the platform committee.

[Vanilluxe]

Fortunately, the RPF's usernames are pretty anonymous. When we in NC were going into the NC State Conventions in 2008, I set up a mailman list that was fully 2-way anonymous, so nobody knew who anybody was. We probably don't need to go that drastic, but I also know in NC that delegates are bound by State law rather than party rules, so the NC delegation will be voting our pledges lest we come home to a jail cell. :p

For the purposes of this particular effort, I will be focusing on the platform battle. Votes at the RNC for the nomination, as I am sure the Paul Campaign will also say, will be on the individual conscience of the delegate in question. As a delegate from a State that has no choice but to vote our pledges (fortunately I am pledged to Paul) I should not be the one to organize that particular effort, but I can in good conscience organize the platform fight.

Uh, you just announced yourself as Glen Bradley...

[Constitutional Paulicy]

Uh, you just announced yourself as XXXX XXXXX...

If your concerned that he wasn't aware he did so, you should have PM'ed him so he could edit his post. And you should edit yours if he chooses to edit his.

[Tinnuhana]

Fortunately, Glen is bound for RP, so no secrets there.

[Dogsoldier]

I won't be in Tampa sadly but I'm with you.

Moving on.Stay the course.

To the Republic!

[GunnyFreedom]

Uh, you just announced yourself as Glen Bradley...

I sincerely doubt there is anybody who cares who doesn't know who I am. My days of stealth anything in politics are long over. :p

[kathy88]

Be careful making that blanket statement. In North Carolina delegates to national conventions are not bound by Party rules but by State law. NC Delegates who violate their pledges will come home to find themselves arrested by State Police.

We'll do a bail chip in.

[kathy88]

If we had the majority at the State Convention (we did not) we could have 'adopted the national rules' in the executive committee which would have effectively unbound the delegates as discussed ad nauseum previously.

Until then, the NC General Statues effect the binding of delegates. This is only the case in like three States, and in the case of NC, nearly everybody is bound to whom they want to vote for anyway, except for a few Santorum delegates who actually support Paul.



The RNC would be forced to recognize votes that are cast (illegally per NC Statute) but then the delegate would face a violation of State law upon return.

For the 47 US States that only bind per party rules, I agree with the former analysis. For the 3 states that bind by State law, that's one heckuva battle to fight. How do you think the Federal courts are going to rule?

NC, what are the other two states, Glen?

[tod evans]

We'll do a bail chip in.

Duncan Donuts in lieu of pizza.......for the oppressing class of course ;)

[droberg442]

Someone, please explain to me why Ron Paul can't continue as "The Libertian Candidate- if his delegates are unsuccessful at Tampa? We should all go to Tampa and show our support for the Liberty movement - even if the Leader has been dethroned! The movement must continue and be represented as 1. Non-establishment 2. Non New World Order 3. Finally Constitutionalists "This should be our cry for Liberty"

[droberg442]

Don't throw Rand Paul under the bus! He needs to continue the fight to win the minds and ears of the Conservative Republicans! He is tredding water in the shark tank of Washington Politics! Don't let the Establishment fragment our Liberty movement! Ron Paul has stated he was retiring from the madness. And he has done his best to start this Liberty movement. He deserves the right to leave as the Dignified member and Loyalist he was! Just because Rand and his father are related, we can't demand the same actions from each! Our movement must stay the course and find a new leader of principle! Sen. Rand Paul HAS MADE HIS PATH CLEAR AND WE SHOULD ALLOW HIM TO TAKE THAT PATH- AS A REPUBLICAN!

[Barrex]

Cool head at last.... Not just rambling....
(I would like to hear your perspective on Rand endosring Mitt Glenn. You got best insight since you have been elected and know how things work.)

[GunnyFreedom]

Cool head at last.... Not just rambling....
(I would like to hear your perspective on Rand endosring Mitt Glenn. You got best insight since you have been elected and know how things work.)

Well, I don't like it. I figure the reason he did it is to try and prevent us from getting the blame if (when!) Mitt Romney eventually loses, which, if true, is at least an excusable motive for such a thing, but it doesn't really work if you go around telling people that's what you did, so we are never going to hear it from him. Pretty big risk on his part though, Ron Paul supporters tend to overlook...well...nothing. Ever. Rand isn't stupid, he'd know what it would cost, so it may have been an honest to goodness full-on sacrifice fly knowing it might kill him in the medium-short run, but it helps deflect the Paul movement from getting the blame when Mitt falls on his face.

It's all speculation, of course, but the hypothesis fits the facts. Voters have the memories of goldfish generally, but "HuYOU people puut HObama bak in orfice" is the kinda thing they'd remember for decades.

If Romney loses 'because of the Paul zealots' we are pretty much screwed going forward. If Romney loses simply because he fails to attract enough under-40's at the polls (which has the added benefit of actually being the truth) then the R3volution becomes the solution rather than the problem.

Doesn't mean I like it, I don't. Doesn't mean I would have done the same, I wouldn't. But I understand it, and so I refuse to hate him for it. Paulers tend to be some vindictive pluckers though, so I hope Rand can pull a strong enough voting record to eventually recover some of what he lost when he did it.

[GunnyFreedom]

NC, what are the other two states, Glen?

Umm, North Carolina, Oregon, aaand.. Kentucky. As far as I know are the only States to do anything like that.

[lib3rtarian]

ALL, regardless of if you are an open Paul delegate or a stealth one, please feel confident in confiding to Glen (GunnyFreedom) in this effort. Glen is very trustworthy, and everyone here will vouch for him. The platform is a fight we need to win _independent_ of the campaign, so let's please focus our efforts here.

Glen, make sure you post this on Daily Paul too.

[GunnyFreedom]

Thanks lib3ertarian! It's true, the only thing I give a darn about is restoring the Constitutional order, and letting the establishment or the Santos run roughshod over us at the RNC will actively harm that effort.

Here is the ABC News article about Santorum telegraphing his planned platform fight:


http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/rick-santorum-predicts-convention-fight-ron-paul-delegates/story?id=16526318#.T9TQ0eJYvHJ

[Anti Federalist]

Be careful making that blanket statement. In North Carolina delegates to national conventions are not bound by Party rules but by State law. NC Delegates who violate their pledges will come home to find themselves arrested by State Police.

Hmmm...

That "delegate strategy" being promoted around here, and from the campaign, at least as I understood it, was a real brilliant corker of a fucking idea now, wasn't it?

I said the same thing weeks ago and got barked down.

Probably as brilliant as the "Rand Endorsement Strategy" is now.

What a fucking cluster fuck this whole thing has turned out to be.

Jesus weeping Christ...

[MelissaWV]

Hmmm...

That "delegate strategy" being promoted around here, and from the campaign, at least as I understood it, was a real brilliant corker of a fucking idea now, wasn't it?

I said the same thing weeks ago and got barked down.

Probably as brilliant as the "Rand Endorsement Strategy" is now.

What a fucking cluster fuck this whole thing has turned out to be.

Jesus weeping Christ...

Deep breath.

Most of those laws (and I have pointed out the same thing) pertain to voting in the first or second or third round, etc.. The hope is as slim as anything I've ever heard of, but it's that Romney does not blow it out on the first round, that Ron is nominated on the floor, that people who are there can influence the platform, that the MSM will give even a little bit of a damn.

It is not some earthshattering, super-changing event, but it is lightyears ahead of where we were last year.

How can I put this more simply...

Some of the most memorable and "popular" movies in our history were not big box office successes. People saw them on television, later, or online, or in some other way, and now it has become almost impossible to find people who have not seen them. The term "cult classic" comes to mind. They have influence, their ideas are recycled, they're watched just about every time they're on television.

If Ron does nothing else, he will achieve that kind of status. As platforms emerge in the future, they will reference back to him a bit more. Hopefully more and more local candidates are making the leap and climbing the ladders towards higher office. It is a shame Ron is not likely to win the nomination and the presidency, but there is still much that can be won via political means.

I know you and yours are not huge fans of that, but again there are things to be done. There is definitely a place for the more manicured supporters to make their voices heard in greater and greater numbers each time around.

[sailingaway]

Hmmm...

That "delegate strategy" being promoted around here, and from the campaign, at least as I understood it, was a real brilliant corker of a fucking idea now, wasn't it?

I said the same thing weeks ago and got barked down.

Probably as brilliant as the "Rand Endorsement Strategy" is now.

What a fucking cluster fuck this whole thing has turned out to be.

Jesus weeping Christ...

Once we lost Super Tuesday it was the best strategy we had, and is the reason we have the clout we have. It would very likely have been a brokered convention had santa not been funded through a pac to stay in, and had he then not ALSO dropped out. Santa is being brought back to try to splinter it, it is so effective. I know you aren't on his side. Is it what we wanted? No, but it is still the only way to get Ron's message as HE says it, not edited, out for the delegates and the world, unfiltered at RNC. What is YOUR best next step?

[Carlybee]

Don't y'all have some kind of private forum to post delegate strategy? Everything posted on here seems to end up on some blog in a google search lately. Just sayin'.

[Anti Federalist]

What is YOUR best next step?

Motivation, separation, secession.

This whole thing has become fucking circle jerk of idiocy, trying to play a rigged game by rigged rules in a corrupt system.

And while we're hopping from one foot to the other, trying to play the game, our oppressors are sitting aropund and laughing their fucking asses off at us.

You should have heard the conversation last night between Mrs. AF and a person we both know in NC that is partly prompting this tirade.

[GunnyFreedom]

Hmmm...

That "delegate strategy" being promoted around here, and from the campaign, at least as I understood it, was a real brilliant corker of a fucking idea now, wasn't it?

I said the same thing weeks ago and got barked down.

Probably as brilliant as the "Rand Endorsement Strategy" is now.

What a fucking cluster fuck this whole thing has turned out to be.

Jesus weeping Christ...

Ehh, it's only three States, the largest of which is NC where we walked up with only 20% of the State delegates and forced them to actually obey the rules for the first time in decades and properly allot our delegates to the RNC. Kentucky being the next largest, but with a 15% threshhold for binding, someone should have moved from the KY excomm that State law was in conflict with RNC proportional rules and to adopt the national rules which would have unbound the delegates. And then Oregon being tiny in comparison.

It's not like NC, KY, and OR would have had any real effect on the delegates strategy had we managed to pull a majority to the RNC nationwide. Nor is it like Paul had a real choice being in it to win it, it's hard to push back when just about ALL of the media constantly and blatantly lies about you.

I suppose I have the benefit of being a passionate believer and seeing much of these things as separating the goats and the sheep. Taking down the establishment is going to be a Jericho battle, and just like Jericho you'd rather have 100 'true believers' than 10,000 pretenders.

Rand just offered up the queen for a sacrifice play, and when I play chess, I sure do hate HATE to give up my queen. Only time will tell if his move will deflect the Paulers from getting the blame when Romney faceplants in November.

[GunnyFreedom]

Don't y'all have some kind of private forum to post delegate strategy? Everything posted on here seems to end up on some blog in a google search lately. Just sayin'.

I'm not here to post delegate strategy, but to organize people for the platform fight. There's not much of that which secrecy will help in any way.

[cheapseats]

And while we're hopping from one foot to the other, trying to play the game, our oppressors are sitting aropund and laughing their fucking asses off at us.



All the way to their VAULTS. They know better than to trust BANKERS.

[GunnyFreedom]

Motivation, separation, secession.

This whole thing has become fucking circle jerk of idiocy, trying to play a rigged game by rigged rules in a corrupt system.

And while we're hopping from one foot to the other, trying to play the game, our oppressors are sitting aropund and laughing their fucking asses off at us.

You should have heard the conversation last night between Mrs. AF and a person we both know in NC that is partly prompting this tirade.

We have a couple of people in NC who were threatened with physical intimidation for handing out flyers, I think that's maybe who you are talking about. We also have a couple of agent provocateurs whom a good chunk of NC Paulers are as yet unaware of their status, so be careful what you take from here as gospel.

[MozoVote]

Don't y'all have some kind of private forum to post delegate strategy? Everything posted on here seems to end up on some blog in a google search lately. Just sayin'.
I'm sure Gunny will only be talking specifics among his private list. And there will be last minute plays not divulged, except in person to the Tampa arrivees.

[GunnyFreedom]

The bottom line is that nothing influences lawmakers more than a collusion between platform designation and public pressure.

A platform point by itself is meaningless to these people. Public pressure by itself is meaningless to these people. When public pressure aligns with a platform point, magic happens and mountains move.

We have a passionate group of activists who love to bring public pressure, now all we need are platform points to back us up.

The point of this effort is to win platform points so that we can effect legislation at the State and national levels.

If you aren't here to help organize and win the platform fight, there are about 50 to 100 other threads for wailing and gnashing of teeth over there ------->>

[GunnyFreedom]

I'm sure Gunny will only be talking specifics among his private list. And there will be last minute plays not divulged, except in person to the Tampa arrivees.

Quite right. This thread is just basically for gathering purposes and "why we fight" stuff.

Certainly not for "this is what we are going to do and how we are going to do it."

[GunnyFreedom]

One of our most important battles will be for the platform. Rick Santorum has already thrown down the gauntlet and telegraphed his intention to fight for his vision of the platform. We Paulers cannot allow that to happen. Santorum people will be unified because that's the sort of people they are. We Paulers will tend to buck unity because that's the sort of people we are. We must come together if we are to prevail in this fight.



So I guess the remaining question is, do we want to prevail in this fight, or do we want to just give the platform to Santorum? That's up to you. Join or die.

[Anti Federalist]

Crafting a platform that does not get followed.

Good luck with that.

[GunnyFreedom]

Crafting a platform that does not get followed.

Good luck with that.

o.O

Well, typing more slowly isn't going to help, so I'll just say it again.

It has been my experience as a legislator that the platform by itself is ignored, just like public pressure by itself is ignored, however when you combine public pressure with a platform point the magic happens and mountains move.

We have plenty of public pressure at our disposal, and now all we need are platform points to back it up so that we can start moving mountains.

I understand that my direct experience as a Republican lawmaker may not be as relevant as an insight into how Republican lawmakers actually behave in the wild as your experience is, but I'm pretty sure that I have something to bring to the table in this discussion.

[gte811i]

I believe GA delegates are also bound by State law.

[VegasPatriot]

Thanks for starting this thread Gunny; I will send you a PM with more detailed information. I am a member of the Nevada delegation. We have already elected our delegates for each committee and we have elected a chair for our delegation. Here is information sent to our delegates concerning the committees.


Following is the information provided by the RNC on the convention committees:

There are four national convention committees of the Republican National Convention. Under Rule 41 of The Rules of the Republican Party (the “Rules”), each state delegation must elect two members – one man and one woman – to each committee, as well as a delegation chairman, promptly after the state’s delegates have been selected.

Please note that the convention committees (other than Permanent Organization) will meet the week before the convention, and members will need to arrive in Tampa early. Note also that the delegation chairman and committee members must be delegates.

The four convention committees are as follows:

Committee on Resolutions (Platform Committee) – Members should arrive in Tampa on 8/19
The Committee on Resolutions, commonly referred to as the Platform Committee, submits resolutions to the full convention body to be voted on as the official platform. The Republican Platform is a formal declaration of the principles of the Republican Party.

Committee on Credentials – Members should arrive in Tampa on 8/22
The Credentials Committee will receive the credentials of each delegate filed in accordance with the Rules and submit the temporary roll of the convention, which will have been previously reviewed by the RNC. The Credentials Committee may hear and resolve appeals to the ruling of any contest adjudicated by the RNC Committee on Contests, as to the seating of delegates to the convention.

Committee on Rules and Order of Business (Rules Committee) – Members should arrive in Tampa on 8/22
The RNC Rules Committee has been reviewing and modifying the Rules for the past three years. These amendments will be presented to the RNC and then to the Convention Rules Committee, which will review these changes and propose final Rules, as amended, for adoption by the convention.

Committee on Permanent Organization – Members should arrive in Tampa on 8/26
RNC Chairman Reince Priebus selects a number of convention officers, including the Permanent and Temporary Chairmen, the Secretary and the Sergeant-at-Arms. The Permanent Organization Committee will meet at the beginning of the convention to review the slate and make its recommendation to the convention.

[sailingaway]

I believe GA delegates are also bound by State law.

Check, but I thought it was the penalties, by RULE that are big. And whether enforceable, I don't know. But I don't think we had much in Georgia, they cheated as I recall.

AZ is a statute, but I don't know the penalty.

[jay_dub]

Rand just offered up the queen for a sacrifice play, and when I play chess, I sure do hate HATE to give up my queen. Only time will tell if his move will deflect the Paulers from getting the blame when Romney faceplants in November.

Good analogy.....but you NEVER sacrifice the queen without seeing the end game ahead of your opponent. All I've seen is speculation on why this was a good idea and the timing is studiously avoided. And as always...timing is everything and his timing sucked.

Sacrifice or Giveaway?

[cheapseats]

o.O

Well, typing more slowly isn't going to help, so I'll just say it again.

It has been my experience as a legislator that the platform by itself is ignored, just like public pressure by itself is ignored, however when you combine public pressure with a platform point the magic happens and mountains move.

We have plenty of public pressure at our disposal, and now all we need are platform points to back it up so that we can start moving mountains.

END THE FED

BALANCE THE BUDGET...which "naturally" portends CUTS ACROSS THE BOARD, INCLUDING MILITARY. Speaking of Military...

GET OUT OF AFGHANISTAN & DON'T GO INTO IRAN...or Syria, or Somalia, or Yemen, or North Korea...we can't afford it, so sorry.

THROW BOOK, INCLUDING HARD TIME IN FEDERAL PENITENTIARIES, AT WHITE COLLAR CRIMINALS...not "just" including Corrupt Officials, ESPECIALLY Corrupt Officials.


Those are TALL ORDERS, but they are quite specific. Also righteous.

Are you willing to divulge a possible plank or two, that OTHER Freedom Fighters may know roughly how SCALED DOWN Delegate Strategy platform planks will be?

'Cuz giving a rousing-to-the-base speech right before Romney is crowned doesn't even rank with KISSING YOUR SISTER.



I understand that my direct experience as a Republican lawmaker may not be as relevant as an insight into how Republican lawmakers actually behave in the wild as your experience is, but I'm pretty sure that I have something to bring to the table in this discussion.

Do you feel that your opinion should COUNT more? If Freedom Fighters had to vote like Founding Fathers did (unlikely, insofar as we are not even permitted to ARGUE FREELY), should you effectively have MORE THAN ONE VOTE?

YOU were one of the respected Board Members who INSISTED change-the-right-kind-our-kind HAD to occur within the Republican Party.

NOW you'd like all dissenting opinions compartmentalized AWAY from where you are getting REAL work done? Okay, I'll stay out of YOUR thread after this post. But know this: the jury of Mini-Public Opinion is out on whether Tampa shall be a respectful and orderly handling of business according to capricious rules, or Mayhem. (It's okay to use MAYHEM loosely, per Allstate Insurance.)

YOU aren't the only American who has worked hard or has skin in this game. NON REPUBLICAN Freedom Fighters have a stake in whether you are playing HARDBALL or SOFTBALL.

[GunnyFreedom]

END THE FED

BALANCE THE BUDGET...which "naturally" portends CUTS ACROSS THE BOARD, INCLUDING MILITARY. Speaking of Military...

GET OUT OF AFGHANISTAN & DON'T GO INTO IRAN...or Syria, or Somalia, or Yemen, or North Korea...we can't afford it, so sorry.

THROW BOOK, INCLUDING HARD TIME IN FEDERAL PENITENTIARIES, AT WHITE COLLAR CRIMINALS...not "just" including Corrupt Officials, ESPECIALLY Corrupt Officials.


Those are TALL ORDERS, but they are quite specific. Also righteous.

Are you willing to divulge a possible plank or two, that OTHER Freedom Fighters may know roughly how SCALED DOWN Delegate Strategy platform planks will be? 'Cuz giving a rousing-to-the-base speech right before Romney is crowned doesn't even rank with KISSING YOUR SISTER.




Do you feel that your opinion should COUNT more?

YOU were one of the respected Board Members who INSISTED change-the-right-kind-our-kind HAD to occur within the Republican Party.

NOW you'd like all dissenting opinions compartmentalized AWAY from where you are getting REAL work done? Okay, I'll stay out of YOUR thread after this post. But know this: the jury of Mini-Public Opinion is out on whether Tampa shall be a respectful and orderly handling of business according to capricious rules, or Mayhem. (It's okay to use MAYHEM loosely, per Allstate Insurance.)

YOU aren't the only American who has worked hard or has skin in this game. NON REPUBLICAN Freedom Fighters have a stake in whether you are playing HARDBALL or SOFTBALL.

The assertion was that affecting changes in the GOP platform is irrelevant. I was giving a counter argument based on first hand experience. If you think that makes me a member of the "zomg establishment keepin us down" then all I can say is you are entitled to your opinion, as ridiculous as it may be.

As to "skin in the game" (an argument I never raised, btw, you did) I'll change places with you in a heartbeat, buddy. Did you know that I only registered for a party for the first time in my life in 2007 because Ron Paul asked me to? Did you know that I gave up $50k in 2007 for literally zero living on a wish and a prayer to campaign for Paul in 4 states in 2008? Did you know that I spent my entire inheritance from my grandmother's death, a whole $15,000 in 2010 and I will never receive another inheritance again, in order to get a pathetic $20,000/yr job as a State House member where I am universally hated, and mocked and ridiculed by the press?

I didn't bring up 'skin in the game,' you did. To me this is not about a stupid 'biggest dick' competition for who gives the most of themselves, this is about the death and demise of liberty and the United States. Now you can hate me for pushing up while all my comrades keep falling and dying around me, but by God I will keep pushing up until we win or I'm dead myself.

[GunnyFreedom]

Good analogy.....but you NEVER sacrifice the queen without seeing the end game ahead of your opponent. All I've seen is speculation on why this was a good idea and the timing is studiously avoided. And as always...timing is everything and his timing sucked.

Sacrifice or Giveaway?

To be fair, the most effective sacrifice plays look like an accident. If you telegraph your plans then the sacrifice becomes pointless.

I'm not saying I approve, just that i understand.

And why is this thread still being derailed?

[GunnyFreedom]

END THE FED

BALANCE THE BUDGET...which "naturally" portends CUTS ACROSS THE BOARD, INCLUDING MILITARY. Speaking of Military...

GET OUT OF AFGHANISTAN & DON'T GO INTO IRAN...or Syria, or Somalia, or Yemen, or North Korea...we can't afford it, so sorry.

THROW BOOK, INCLUDING HARD TIME IN FEDERAL PENITENTIARIES, AT WHITE COLLAR CRIMINALS...not "just" including Corrupt Officials, ESPECIALLY Corrupt Officials.


Those are TALL ORDERS, but they are quite specific. Also righteous.

Are you willing to divulge a possible plank or two, that OTHER Freedom Fighters may know roughly how SCALED DOWN Delegate Strategy platform planks will be?



I don't have anything yet, I'm still working to gather people so we can start laying out a strategy.

Balancing the budget is a good one, I'd even go further to say that we support a balanced budget amendment to the US Constitution with enforcement, that will mean more than mere words but force lawmakers to balance the budget in Congress and take strong punitive measures if they should fail to do so.

End The Fed should probably be broadened to opposition to any form of private central banks having the power to issue currency that should only belong to Congress.

A foreign policy plank will be a very hard battle, and I would prefer a tighter statement than you make, that the United States can only go to war with a formal declaration of war when our purpose is clear, our goal is clear, and our exist strategy is clear, and we do not support nation-building but int he exigency of war we declare it, win it, and come home leaving the enemy to rebuild.

Trying to come up with an "equity in justice" plank is a good idea, but may be hard to articulate.

[jay_dub]

To be fair, the most effective sacrifice plays look like an accident. If you telegraph your plans then the sacrifice becomes pointless.

I'm not saying I approve, just that i understand.

And why is this thread still being derailed?

Oh, I didn't mean to go OT....just responding to an analogy you made.

BTW, I agree with you in that platform planks + public pressure can be a powerful combination. A variation on that is why I still carry hope that RP can pull off a miracle. That being Paul delegates + delegates not being bound + events between now and August to give non-Paul delegates pause to re-think their allegiance could = success. At the least I want to see the GOP with a severe case of buyer's remorse, much like in 1976 when Ford was picked over Reagan.

[jay_dub]

I don't have anything yet, I'm still working to gather people so we can start laying out a strategy.

Balancing the budget is a good one, I'd even go further to say that we support a balanced budget amendment to the US Constitution with enforcement, that will mean more than mere words but force lawmakers to balance the budget in Congress and take strong punitive measures if they should fail to do so.

End The Fed should probably be broadened to opposition to any form of private central banks having the power to issue currency that should only belong to Congress.

A foreign policy plank will be a very hard battle, and I would prefer a tighter statement than you make, that the United States can only go to war with a formal declaration of war when our purpose is clear, our goal is clear, and our exist strategy is clear, and we do not support nation-building but int he exigency of war we declare it, win it, and come home leaving the enemy to rebuild.

Trying to come up with an "equity in justice" plank is a good idea, but may be hard to articulate.

IMO, a balanced budget would be the single biggest victory for Liberty we could achieve. Without funding, theses abuses, both here and abroad, would wither and die. Gov't would have to shrink back to its Constitutional constraints. There would simply be no money for building either domestic or foreign empire.

That being said, it would never be agreed to to have zero debt, but it is possible to have a balanced budget amendment with strictly enumerated provisions for incurring debt. It's a far cry from having some flexibility of carrying *some* debt to having the debt-based economy we now have.

[Veteran Citizen]

Just a thought here, but you don't win in politics by only throwing hail mary's at the end zone. Incrementalism and organization work. How do you think we ended up with a socialist president in the first place. They have been taking small bites of the cow, not trying to swallow it whole.

And here we are.

The delegates might want to brush up on Interest Based Negotiations (http://www.adr.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=7363)

[MozoVote]

Even if Santorum's people fight the Liberty delegates to a draw over social issues, I expect the needle will be moved on some economic and even foreign policy issues. There are many regular GOP conservatives disgusted with what Bush did to the budget, and his bailout positions. Plenty of them are tired of a decade of overseas deployments affecting their relatives, and they know the hardships that places on people returning to their jobs and the disruption it causes within families.

That's something that has come to light in the North Carolina conventions. We have been about 10% to 20% of the delegation each year, not enough to forge an agenda, but a sufficiently large voting block to shift the debate and win some planks. Gunny has seen how that works.

Also, not all of Santorum's people are "really his" ... Just sayin ... Santorum may find his hand isn't as strong with "his" delegates as expected.

[Anti Federalist]

As you did everything by the book, worked within the system, did everything right and lost your seat because the system gerrymandered you out.

Winning. /s

No, typing any more slowly would not do any good.


o.O

Well, typing more slowly isn't going to help, so I'll just say it again.

It has been my experience as a legislator that the platform by itself is ignored, just like public pressure by itself is ignored, however when you combine public pressure with a platform point the magic happens and mountains move.

We have plenty of public pressure at our disposal, and now all we need are platform points to back it up so that we can start moving mountains.

I understand that my direct experience as a Republican lawmaker may not be as relevant as an insight into how Republican lawmakers actually behave in the wild as your experience is, but I'm pretty sure that I have something to bring to the table in this discussion.

[MozoVote]

If Liberty people had contributed another $50K to Gunny's campaign, I don't think he'd have come in 3rd. :rolleyes: But let's not derail the thread over his primary.

[MelissaWV]

If people put as much effort into making a thread entitled "Why you can't win and you're stupid" as they did in derailing what a member started as an attempt to provide a resource to delegates who are still going to attend the Convention... the world might be a nicer place.

Heck, those who are outraged might even attempt to do something to further their own agenda OTHER THAN hijacking helpful, informational threads.

Nahhhhh.

[GunnyFreedom]

As you did everything by the book, worked within the system, did everything right and lost your seat because the system gerrymandered you out.

Winning. /s

No, typing any more slowly would not do any good.

I'd probably be on my way to the NC Senate right now if I had more than $12k to spend vs a guy who spent $100k+ in a primary pretending to be me...

$12k vs $100k+ not gonna end well. Especially when he falsely pretends to be me plus support for the marriage amendment. Especially when volunteers don't bother to show up, or decide if you don't agree with their own thing that they don't really feel motivated to help -- One sign guy said he wanted to help, and I had 500 yardsigns from 2010 that with a quick stencil job made perfect 2012 signs, but if it wasn't hanging banners off of bridges he just wasn't interested. At least 50 people have come up to me since the election saying they would have voted for me if they had just heard of me. That's what getting outspent 10 to 1 will do.

[Anti Federalist]

I'd probably be on my way to the NC Senate right now if I had more than $12k to spend vs a guy who spent $100k+ in a primary pretending to be me...

$12k vs $100k+ not gonna end well. Especially when he falsely pretends to be me plus support for the marriage amendment. Especially when volunteers don't bother to show up, or decide if you don't agree with their own thing that they don't really feel motivated to help -- One sign guy said he wanted to help, and I had 500 yardsigns from 2010 that with a quick stencil job made perfect 2012 signs, but if it wasn't hanging banners off of bridges he just wasn't interested. At least 50 people have come up to me since the election saying they would have voted for me if they had just heard of me. That's what getting outspent 10 to 1 will do.

I'm not gonna derail your thread any longer going around with this, I can detect snark from others as well as anybody.

Simple point is that the system detected you as a threat and eliminated you.

We're both on the outside now.

I'm out, carry on.

[tsai3904]

What role do alternate delegates play in the convention if any?

[MozoVote]

Depends on how the delegation chairman handles things. For example, N.C. has a tradition dating back to the early roots of the party during Reconstruction ... that every member of the delegation gets to vote at least once. I doubt our alternates will be allowed to vote on "important" things but they don't hold completely powerless posts. One thing I've come to learn about the GOP establishment here, is that they *do* take tradition and established precedent pretty seriously.

Other states, the alternates may be relegated to the back of the bus, and get to do nothing more than applaud. At least they will be eyewitnesses to whatever schenanigans take place in Tampa.

[lib3rtarian]

I don't know why some of you have to be such jackasses trying to slam Gunny when he is volunteering to unite the RNC delegates behind something. I don't harbor any high hopes of the politicians sleeping with the party platforms under their pillows, but it's a step in the right direction. If we manage to change the party platform to something liberty-oriented, but for which the Republicans are not usually known to go gaga over, then at least the "liberal media" would report it to spite the Republicans.

If you are not going to help Gunny, at least don't hurt the venture.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

Doesn't federal law override state law?

Depends on which thug is arresting you, I suppose.

[paulbot24]

Depends on how the delegation chairman handles things. For example, N.C. has a tradition dating back to the early roots of the party during Reconstruction ... that every member of the delegation gets to vote at least once. I doubt our alternates will be allowed to vote on "important" things but they don't hold completely powerless posts. One thing I've come to learn about the GOP establishment here, is that they *do* take tradition and established precedent pretty seriously.

Other states, the alternates may be relegated to the back of the bus, and get to do nothing more than applaud. At least they will be eyewitnesses to whatever schenanigans take place in Tampa.

Didn't I read earlier that according to North Carolina state law, if you abstain or vote for somebody other than who you are bound to that you can expect to not only be removed from the RNC but be facing charges from your state when you return?

[spcmckay]

If Ron Paul doesn’t have enough delegates to win the nomination, then what is the point of his delegates traveling across the country to be harassed at the RNC? They should stage a walkout and reconvene at a “Rally for the Republic” type of event like they had in St Paul.

[Anti Federalist]

If Ron Paul doesn’t have enough delegates to win the nomination, then what is the point of his delegates traveling across the country to be harassed at the RNC? They should stage a walkout and reconvene at a “Rally for the Republic” type of event like they had in St Paul.

I'd support this idea.

Don't know how "respectful" it would be though.

[MozoVote]

Didn't I read earlier that according to North Carolina state law, if you abstain or vote for somebody other than who you are bound to that you can expect to not only be removed from the RNC but be facing charges from your state when you return?
By NC statute, they cannot vote for anyone on the first ballot other than to whom they are pledged. Of course there are also argumments that this NC law is unconstitutional, or that delegates are still able to abstain. But I expect most of the Santorum and Gingrich delegates will vote Romney after the S/G campaigns finish ironing out agreements with his campaign, and they become unbound. Much of this stuff is conjecture, and I don't think anybody has the time or funds ,to want to wade into legal quicksand from violating expectations.

[sailingaway]

If Ron Paul doesn’t have enough delegates to win the nomination, then what is the point of his delegates traveling across the country to be harassed at the RNC? They should stage a walkout and reconvene at a “Rally for the Republic” type of event like they had in St Paul.

with the support of 5 states he can be nominated from the floor and give an UNEDITED speech, on his own strength not by a deal. With six states he can bring and second motions for debate about changing policy. Neither of these things have been done at RNC since 1976 and would both be historic and show what a convention is SUPPOSED to be -- citizens governing their party.

[sailingaway]

By NC statute, they cannot vote for anyone on the first ballot other than to whom they are pledged. Of course there are also argumments that this NC law is unconstitutional, or that delegates are still able to abstain. But I expect most of the Santorum and Gingrich delegates will vote Romney after the S/G campaigns finish ironing out agreements with his campaign, and they become unbound. Much of this stuff is conjecture, and I don't think anybody has the time or funds ,to want to wade into legal quicksand from violating expectations.

by rumor some coalition of attorneys is about to bring suit to find out, tomorrow.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

I'd support this idea.

Don't know how "respectful" it would be though.


Really, just stop with that shit. With all due respect (and I have a boatload of repect for you), Ron has decided he doesn't want to be a revolutionary general, and we all have to deal with that fact. He's almost 80. He might have taken that role back in the Morton Downey days, but that's not what he's doing now.

Are we a bunch of Ron Paul fans? Or are we a bunch of people who came together for philosophical reasons? RP might last 10 more years if he is lucky, but his philosophy can last much longer. It's up to us, and "drafting" anyone for anything is pretty much as ugly as "drafting" anyone for anythng. If you believe in this cause, then keep doing it. If you only believe in it because RP said it, then you'll die along with him. I'm pretty sure that's not what he's shooting for.

[RDM]

by rumor some coalition of attorneys is about to bring suit to find out, tomorrow.

True. Here's the video with FAQ's. I also have a thread in GRC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=MPt2nlyfmfc

[Mini-Me]

Just wanted to bump a thread that's actually useful. :p