I don't see why we are all blaming Rand...

[Romulus]

The campaign quit on us months ago, right after we started winning tons of states. Benton shot out a couple of emails calling the quits. Ron said nothing except 'be respectful'. They basically dissolved on us. And now I feel like Rand is getting all the heat, like a bad cop. Don't get me wrong, I think he deserves every bit of, but so does Ron and the campaign. They essentially folded instead of seeing this fight all the way to the convention. Even Doug Wead saying things like, "in 10years people will know why but we can't talk about it now".

The campaign gave quit with very bad timing. Ron was silent. And Rand has effectively ended everything. Is this how the campaign winds it down?

Heck, I was pissed that Ron openly attacked Santorum and played nice with Romney that whole debate. I felt like something was up then. Now that Rand sucks up to Mitt on Hannity it makes me wonder even more. I think the Paul's caved into pressure.

[paulbot24]

Ron Paul cannot cave in. He's made of an indestructible material they don't even have a name for yet.

[Echoes]

This was all pre-meditated, acting like they were all serious about winning when they were in cahoots with Romney all along. I knew something was fishy when Ron didnt attack him at all at the debates. Only when supporters pressed hard did he slightly go after him. What a waste of money, everybody deserves a refund.

[The Gold Standard]

I don't blame Rand. I knew he was going to endorse Romney anyway. It was despicable how he tried to justify it, but whatever. Hopefully he is still a trojan horse for liberty, but it won't really matter because he will have to do it against the wishes of the big government Republican scum. When you compromise your principles you effectively kill the true liberty movement. Maybe Rand can try work with guys like DeMint and spend a little less money, but as soon as he tries to bring a single troop home he will be cast out of the GOP with the rest of us. If you have to pretend to be a Trotskyite to get along in the party, then what good is a trojan horse? You will be stopped before you get started.

The people need to be awoken from their government provided stupor. That won't happen by playing grab ass with warmongers like DeMint and authoritarians like Romney.

[WhistlinDave]

Ron Paul cannot cave in. He's made of an indestructible material they don't even have a name for yet.

Marvel comics gave it a name long ago: Adamantium.

[BamaFanNKy]

This was all pre-meditated, acting like they were all serious about winning when they were in cahoots with Romney all along. I knew something was fishy when Ron didnt attack him at all at the debates. Only when supporters pressed hard did he slightly go after him. What a waste of money, everybody deserves a refund.

All part of Ron's master plan. He exposes the fed and votes consistently for decades to sell a bunch of people not born yet out to a Mormon overlord.

[WhistlinDave]

I think we all have to trust that both Ron and Rand know what they are doing. I resist the temptation to feel abandoned and start feeling negative about all of this. I just keep reminding myself that those guys know a lot of things I don't know, and what seem like bad moves now may turn out later to be seen as brilliant. I keep my hopes high because I know how intelligent both Ron and Rand are and how principled they are. I have to assume that anything that appears to the contrary only appears that way because I do not yet know everything they know.

[Romulus]

I think we all have to trust that both Ron and Rand know what they are doing. I resist the temptation to feel abandoned and start feeling negative about all of this. I just keep reminding myself that those guys know a lot of things I don't know, and what seem like bad moves now may turn out later to be seen as brilliant. I keep my hopes high because I know how intelligent both Ron and Rand are and how principled they are. I have to assume that any appearances to the contrary are only appearances, because I do not yet know everything they know.

We all hope for the best... but look at the facts.. the campaign left the delegates in the wind, Rand endorsed Mitt on Hannity. It's not looking good... and I'm not expecting anything special to happen. It it does I'll gladly eat that crow.

[farreri]

Endorsing Mitt = Endorsing Obama

[Anti Federalist]

How I feel right now.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SV36_LQReGg


The campaign quit on us months ago, right after we started winning tons of states. Benton shot out a couple of emails calling the quits. Ron said nothing except 'be respectful'. They basically dissolved on us. And now I feel like Rand is getting all the heat, like a bad cop. Don't get me wrong, I think he deserves every bit of, but so does Ron and the campaign. They essentially folded instead of seeing this fight all the way to the convention. Even Doug Wead saying things like, "in 10years people will know why but we can't talk about it now".

The campaign gave quit with very bad timing. Ron was silent. And Rand has effectively ended everything. Is this how the campaign winds it down?

Heck, I was pissed that Ron openly attacked Santorum and played nice with Romney that whole debate. I felt like something was up then. Now that Rand sucks up to Mitt on Hannity it makes me wonder even more. I think the Paul's caved into pressure.

[WhistlinDave]

We all hope for the best... but look at the facts.. the campaign left the delegates in the wind, Rand endorsed Mitt on Hannity. It's not looking good... and I'm not expecting anything special to happen. It it does I'll gladly eat that crow.

August is still a long way off. I am expecting something special to happen. Lots of things could happen. Almost anything could happen.

If I end up disappointed later, fine, but at least I will enjoy the next few months with my optimism.

The other thing I'm keeping in mind is, Ron Paul is not all about being a hero who fixes things single handedly. If he fails to achieve the Presidency, but succeeds in changing the core philosophy of the nation's foreign policy and ends the Fed, and reverses all the horrible violations of the Constitution that have been going on lately with all the anti-terror legislation, then I'm sure he would consider that success. I'm not saying this is what I'm hoping for, but if RP doesn't get the presidency and these things still happen, I will still be very happy with my consolation prize.

I also want to correct one thing. People may feel like the campaign "left the delegates in the wind" but I don't think that was the message at all. They specifically said, "Keep trying to win more delegates" if I'm not mistaken. Remember that RP doesn't need to get 1,144 votes on the first ballot in order to win. All he needs is to keep Romney from getting 1,144 on the first vote... And then it's anybody's ballgame. Big difference!

Here's kind of what I think is going on. The campaign is holding it's ribs right now. If you don't understand the first time, watch it again.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8saDZwNy0dQ

[Dark_Horse_Rider]

August is still a long way off. I am expecting something special to happen. Lots of things could happen. Almost anything could happen.

If I end up disappointed later, fine, but at least I will enjoy the next few months with my optimism.

The other thing I'm keeping in mind is, Ron Paul is not all about being a hero who fixes things single handedly. If he fails to achieve the Presidency, but succeeds in changing the core philosophy of the nation's foreign policy and ends the Fed, and reverses all the horrible violations of the Constitution that have been going on lately with all the anti-terror legislation, then I'm sure he would consider that success. I'm not saying this is what I'm hoping for, but if RP doesn't get the presidency and these things still happen, I will still be very happy with my consolation prize.

I also want to correct one thing. People may feel like the campaign "left the delegates in the wind" but I don't think that was the message at all. They specifically said, "Keep trying to win more delegates" if I'm not mistaken. Remember that RP doesn't need to get 1,144 votes on the first ballot in order to win. All he needs is to keep Romney from getting 1,144 on the first vote... And then it's anybody's ballgame. Big difference!

Here's kind of what I think is going on. The campaign is holding it's ribs right now. If you don't understand the first time, watch it again.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8saDZwNy0dQ

Glad someone has kept their wits about them, nice post

[WhistlinDave]

Glad someone has kept their wits about them, nice post

Thanks... maybe I'm overly optimistic, but whenever someone says "Just look at the facts" the only thing I know to be a fact for sure is, until Tampa, Romney is still the presumptive nominee. And that means an assumption made ahead of time. He is not the nominee today, or tomorrow, or any other day until Tampa, and nothing can change that fact. Until Tampa, I remain hopeful.

[anaconda]

Rand said months ago that he would endorse the eventual nominee. I don't get why everyone is up in arms now.

[Romulus]

Rand said months ago that he would endorse the eventual nominee. I don't get why everyone is up in arms now.

It's the timing and the context, but you're right. People need to wake up to the facts... it's not just Rand... in many ways the campaign imploded on itself, by design almost.

And people need to let go of this idea of a brokered convention or some secret jedi magic to win the nomination. It's over and that sucks, but it's how it ended, that really has me wondering if the Rats took over the ship.

[matt0611]

It's the timing and the context, but you're right. People need to wake up to the facts... it's not just Rand... in many ways the campaign imploded on itself, by design almost.

And people need to let go of this idea of a brokered convention or some secret jedi magic to win the nomination. It's over and that sucks, but it's how it ended, that really has me wondering if the Rats took over the ship.

I don't have all of the facts so I could be speaking out of ignorance but the campaign was run pretty much like crap. It was better than 2008 for sure but still I don't think it had what it took to win (though we had some really good ads this year, though there were definitely gaps in the message). The MSM didn't help any of course and we just didn't have enough support from the party base. There were lots of reasons why we lost but we did amazing with what we supporters had to work with. I don't blame any of the supporters at all.

The fact is we just didn't have what it took to win this year, even with the delegate strategy (but the grassroots did so much with what we had). We will definitely have some influence at the convention and to vote on the party platform and are also taking over a lot of the local and state republican parties. Don't forget about the liberty candidates people are helping to get elected (Thomas Massie and Kurt Bills anyone? Plus there are still more in the running).

Ron's campaign for the nomination is all but winding down and I'm sure he and Rand talked about this beforehand. Rand always said he'd endorse the eventual nominee so I'm not sure why people are surprised by this and calling him a traitor. No one is satisfied with how things ended up this year but at some point you have the face the facts and know when to give up some battles now to win much larger and more important future battles.

Like Run, I'm a short term pessimist but a long term optimist. It makes me sad that people are abandoning now. I think they're being really short sighted and petty.

[torchbearer]

I don't have all of the facts so I could be speaking out of ignorance but the campaign was run pretty much like crap. It was better than 2008 for sure but still I don't think it had what it took to win (though we had some really good ads this year, though there were definitely gaps in the message). The MSM didn't help any of course and we just didn't have enough support from the party base. There were lots of reasons why we lost but we did amazing with what we supporters had to work with. I don't blame any of the supporters at all.

The fact is we just didn't have what it took to win this year, even with the delegate strategy (but the grassroots did so much with what we had). We will definitely have some influence at the convention and to vote on the party platform and are also taking over a lot of the local and state republican parties. Don't forget about the liberty candidates people are helping to get elected (Thomas Massie and Kurt Bills anyone? Plus there are still more in the running).

Ron's campaign for the nomination is all but winding down and I'm sure he and Rand talked about this beforehand. Rand always said he'd endorse the eventual nominee so I'm not sure why people are surprised by this and calling him a traitor. No one is satisfied with how things ended up this year but at some point you have the face the facts and know when to give up some battles now to win much larger and more important future battles.

Like Run, I'm a short term pessimist but a long term optimist. It makes me sad that people are abandoning now. I think they're being really short sighted and petty.

FYI, the people on the ground are the campaign, if the campaign was run like crap- well, look in a mirror. (assuming you actually took organized action to get ron elected)

[Cleaner44]

Maybe I am wrong, but I think we are still doing well. The R3VOLUTION is not just about one man or one race and if it were it would never succeed. Ron as a president would be a huge step, but him not being president does not stop our work. There are litereally 1000s of bad politicians that need replacing. We are doing a great job at that. Ron has done a great job of moving our nation in that direction and this forum is just one piece of evidense.

Again I may be wrong, but I think Rand is using deception. I think he has choosen a different route than Ron and openly opposing our enemies. I have no doubt that Rand understands liberty. I also see a man will not be called a long shot in 2015, a candidate that the media won't be able to brand as the one that "can't win". Rand knows how to speak to mainstream Republicans and gain their trust. Mainstream Republicans see us as their enemy causing disruptions in their party. Rand's endorsement of Romney serves one purpose and that is to convey to the mainstream Republicans that he is not their enemy. He will not be treated as the fringe nut candidate and this is valuable to us. I may be wrong, but I think Rand understands the difference between Ron and neocons and he knows that Ron is right. I think Rand is playing to win and deception is an important part of the art of war.

Regardless of Ron and Rand, this really goes beyond those two men. We have been doing well and just need to keep working toward our goal. Let us continue to take over the GOP and bring it back to its roots!

[torchbearer]

Maybe I am wrong, but I think we are still doing well. The R3VOLUTION is not just about one man or one race and if it were it would never succeed. Ron as a president would be a huge step, but him not being president does not stop our work. There are litereally 1000s of bad politicians that need replacing. We are doing a great job at that. Ron has done a great job of moving our nation in that direction and this forum is just one piece of evidense.

Again I may be wrong, but I think Rand is using deception. I think he has choosen a different route than Ron and openly opposing our enemies. I have no doubt that Rand understands liberty. I also see a man will not be called a long shot in 2015, a candidate that the media won't be able to brand as the one that "can't win". Rand knows how to speak to mainstream Republicans and gain their trust. Mainstream Republicans see us as their enemy causing disruptions in their party. Rand's endorsement of Romney serves one purpose and that is to convey to the mainstream Republicans that he is not their enemy. He will not be treated as the fringe nut candidate and this is valuable to us. I may be wrong, but I think Rand understands the difference between Ron and neocons and he knows that Ron is right. I think Rand is playing to win and deception is an important part of the art of war.

Regardless of Ron and Rand, this really goes beyond those two men. We have been doing well and just need to keep working toward our goal. Let us continue to take over the GOP and bring it back to its roots!

+1

[bubbleboy]

I woke up this morning and changed my mind about some things, I have decided, what the hell.
Abortion is good, and all those babies would have been stupid or dumb people anyway, the world is overcrowded, and I don't want so many people on MY earth.
NDAA, why not. Let those citizen dissappear or just tortured for life, if they don't back our precious leader.
Goldman Sachs is a fine organization that deserves to be given our taxes. They are our wise saviors and they know whats best for me and my family.
Carbon credits should be charged by anybody who thinks it is a right to breath some of MY oxygen on this earth. If you want to spend electricity or wash your close you SHOULD PAY. PAY PAY PAY.
I love war. Suicide, torture, carpet bombs and hell fire missles. Any country like Iran for example needs to suffer with sanctions until they know WHO is boss.
I want my heathcare!! I want my free healthcare, with statin drugs and sleeping pills, SSRI pills, there are so many pills I need.
We also need protection from all those wackos that believe in natural whole foods, like non GMO's and raw milk. Nobody should be able to grow their own food or teach their own kids at home im sick of those kids who think their their smarter for believing in God.

Go Rand Paul Go ... Im behind you and Romney all the way baby I have seen the light.

[Travlyr]

It is not about winning the presidency anyway. It is about the money monopoly. Government has no business monopolizing money. Without the power to create currency government is benign.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=VAYGWp8V9II#!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=VAYGWp8V9II#!

The liberty movement can still take America back this year. End The Fed affidavits this year. Either they sign it and get elected or they don't and get fired.

[matt0611]

FYI, the people on the ground are the campaign, if the campaign was run like crap- well, look in a mirror. (assuming you actually took organized action to get ron elected)

Not really, I'm talking about things like TV Ads, interviews, handling of certain issues, public events, etc Non-grassroots stuff.

[Liberty74]

This was all pre-meditated, acting like they were all serious about winning when they were in cahoots with Romney all along. I knew something was fishy when Ron didnt attack him at all at the debates. Only when supporters pressed hard did he slightly go after him. What a waste of money, everybody deserves a refund.

THIS.

I figured out Ron Paul's definition of "winning" was not the same as the grassroots. We wanted the nomination. He simply wanted to spread the message on college campuses, hence the youth vote only strategy except it was not a winning strategy...HELLO. I had been saying just a month after Iowa that something was very fishy about Paul not attacking Mitt once - calling him a flip flopper in a TV ad with Newt and Santorum doesn't cut it. And not one attack by Paul on Mitt in the 20 debates or vice versa. I honestly think Paul's strategy was to get Mitt the nomination - he helped take Newt out in Iowa and then went after Santorum in the debates to finish off Mitt's only real contender left according to the media. Mitt gets the nomination and their deal (remember, Benton said early on that both campaigns had been in talks) is in the works. We just don't know exactly what that deal is...HMMMM.

I am not asking for a refund. Live and learn.

[torchbearer]

Not really, I'm talking about things like TV Ads, interviews, handling of certain issues, public events, etc Non-grassroots stuff.

oh, so the expert on national campaigns has come in to provide commentary on what should have been done each step of the way.
monday morning quarterback always gets it right.

i swear our enemies are coming here and getting a huge laugh.

[bubbleboy]

Lets ALL join the bankers too. Go Rand Paul. Isn't tyranny wonderful.

[papitosabe]

This was all pre-meditated, acting like they were all serious about winning when they were in cahoots with Romney all along. I knew something was fishy when Ron didnt attack him at all at the debates. Only when supporters pressed hard did he slightly go after him. What a waste of money, everybody deserves a refund.

i kinda thought the same....its kind of when the MSM has RP on or talks about RP from time to time, and then they say, see, we do have RP on and we don't black him out... I think Trygve Olson and Jessie Benton had more to do with this, than RP, it any at all... RP may have known all along there was a slim to none chance to win,....but if he was knowingly in cahoots with Romney in any way, shape, or form, then yea, everyone deserves a refund

[torchbearer]

Lets ALL join the bankers too. Go Rand Paul. Isn't tyranny wonderful.

you really think you should model your own beliefs off of someone else?
if you are into leader worship, i think you missed something.

[matt0611]

oh, so the expert on national campaigns has come in to provide commentary on what should have been done each step of the way.
monday morning quarterback always gets it right.

i swear our enemies are coming here and getting a huge laugh.

Actually if you read my post I prefaced it with saying I wasn't there and I don't have all of the facts of what went on during the campaign but it appeared to me that it was run less than great. Its not even monday morning quarterbacking as all my criticisms were leveled against the campaign as they were happening.

I'm just saying that for whatever reason, being the less than stellar campaign management, the media, the lack of party base support, and other reasons, it wasn't in the cards for us to win this time. I'm really not sure how or why that is such a controversial statement to you.

I'm not even saying to give up, or abandon the movement, I'm just saying at some point you have the face reality, something a lot of people in this forum refuse to do, apparently.

[torchbearer]

Actually if you read my post I prefaced it with saying I wasn't there and I don't have all of the facts of what went on during the campaign but it appeared to me that it was run less than great. Its not even monday morning quarterbacking as all my criticisms were leveled against the campaign as they were happening.

I'm just saying that for whatever reason, being the less than stellar campaign management, the media, the lack of party base support, and other reasons, it wasn't in the cards for us to win this time. I'm really not sure how or why that is such a controversial statement to you.

I'm not even saying to give up, or abandon the movement, I'm just saying at some point you have the face reality, something a lot of people in this forum refuse to do, apparently.

because from my perspective, the campaign did the optimum it could do given the circumstances.
the media was trashing ron from the beginning with the "can't win"/"kook" mantra every 5 minutes, even claiming Iowa would not matter if he won. the people's minds were poisoned from the beginning.
People are acting like there was something the campaign could do about this, there wasn't barring several billion dollars in bought tv time, and even then- may not break the propaganda stations.
everyone is acting like benton and rand are their enemies and this is false. we each have our own roles to play, some of those roles will involve people rolling around in the mud with the pigs. i'm just glad i don't have to do it.

[matt0611]

because from my perspective, the campaign did the optimum it could do given the circumstances.
the media was trashing ron from the beginning with the "can't win"/"kook" mantra every 5 minutes, even claiming Iowa would not matter if he won. the people's minds were poisoned from the beginning.
People are acting like there was something the campaign could do about this, there wasn't barring several billion dollars in bought tv time, and even then- may not break the propaganda stations.
everyone is acting like benton and rand are their enemies and this is false. we each have our own roles to play, some of those roles will involve people rolling around in the mud with the pigs. i'm just glad i don't have to do it.

I for one am still behind Ron and Rand 100%. I agree, the MSM sucks and there's not much we can do about. I'm not trying to play the blame game like others would and there's not much reason to dwell on the campaign at this point. It just frustrates me that some people want to take all of their frustrations out on Rand when he has done what he said he was going to do all along and they don't even know what's going on behind the scenes.

[ghengis86]

All this bullshit is self defeating. I could give a shit what Rand did.

Ron woke me up and cured my apathy. I know what liberty and freedom mean for once in my life. I'm gonna keep fighting for it. All this shit is just a distraction and matters little.

Quit your bitching and get out there and do something about it. Talk on forums is cheap. Imagine all the things people could have done to promote liberty instead of whining about how Rand endorsed the Romney. Who cares. Move on. If your identity and faith in liberty are so wrapped up in one man (imperfect by nature), then we're a lot further away from restoring freedom in this country than we thought.

Vent if you must, but don't fight with each other. Just get out there and do the best you can to advance the cause.

[WhistlinDave]

All this bullshit is self defeating. I could give a shit what Rand did.

Ron woke me up and cured my apathy. I know what liberty and freedom mean for once in my life. I'm gonna keep fighting for it. All this shit is just a distraction and matters little.

Quit your bitching and get out there and do something about it. Talk on forums is cheap. Imagine all the things people could have done to promote liberty instead of whining about how Rand endorsed the Romney. Who cares. Move on. If your identity and faith in liberty are so wrapped up in one man (imperfect by nature), then we're a lot further away from restoring freedom in this country than we thought.

Vent if you must, but don't fight with each other. Just get out there and do the best you can to advance the cause.

True. All the moaning about Rand and theorizing about some pre-planned conspiracy by Ron to make Romney the nominee is not constructive. We need to keep fighting, but not against each other. We need to keep working to obtain as many delegates as possible. Anyone who thinks this is all over now and we just got suckered is a little too gullible, in my opinion. There is still a lot about this we just don't know, and if we end up fighting with one another and giving up, letting this derail the Revolution, then we are the ones who have betrayed ourselves and all the people who have worked and fought so hard in the trenches. Not Rand.

[Bastiat's The Law]

Campaign was essential lost when we failed to win Iowa and New Hampshire. That was our chance to be taken seriously and we came up short in both states.

[Dark_Horse_Rider]

FYI, the people on the ground are the campaign, if the campaign was run like crap- well, look in a mirror. (assuming you actually took organized action to get ron elected)

This times a million

Respect to all who have advanced Ron and message this far and who will continue onwards rain or shine

RESPECT

[PierzStyx]

We all hope for the best... but look at the facts.. the campaign left the delegates in the wind, Rand endorsed Mitt on Hannity. It's not looking good... and I'm not expecting anything special to happen. It it does I'll gladly eat that crow.

The campaign didn't leave the delegates "in the wind". Am I seriously the only one that reads the e-mails? And your facts do not support your conclusion in the OP.

[matt0611]

Campaign was essential lost when we failed to win Iowa and New Hampshire. That was our chance to be taken seriously and we came up short in both states.

Sad but true. There was a small chance we could have had a brokered convention after that depending on how things go but yeah I agree pretty much.

Its like everyone here is finally seeing reality and they just can't take it so they want someone to crucify. People need to get a grip on things and start looking toward the future.

[Bastiat's The Law]

Sad but true. There was a small chance we could have had a brokered convention after that depending on how things go but yeah I agree pretty much.

Its like everyone here is finally seeing reality and they just can't take it so they want someone to crucify. People need to get a grip on things and start looking toward the future.
Rand is their scapegoat and punching bag to vent upon. It's a natural psychological process of the campaign fallout, which we all held so dear. I already went through this process when we took third in Iowa. We desperately needed creditability that a win would've assured. When we failed to do that it was time to transition to our other goals of taking over the GOP and electing our liberty candidates to Congress. We got a stronger foothold in the party, hell we ARE the party in several states, and we also got a great future Congressmen in Massie. That isn't a bad cancellation prize, we should be proud of what we have accomplished in such a short time span.

[Ender]

All this bullshit is self defeating. I could give a shit what Rand did.

Ron woke me up and cured my apathy. I know what liberty and freedom mean for once in my life. I'm gonna keep fighting for it. All this shit is just a distraction and matters little.

Quit your bitching and get out there and do something about it. Talk on forums is cheap. Imagine all the things people could have done to promote liberty instead of whining about how Rand endorsed the Romney. Who cares. Move on. If your identity and faith in liberty are so wrapped up in one man (imperfect by nature), then we're a lot further away from restoring freedom in this country than we thought.

Vent if you must, but don't fight with each other. Just get out there and do the best you can to advance the cause.

+1000%. It ain't over until it's over.

Everybody should increase their efforts 10 fold instead of whining.

[ProvincialPeasant]

Fuck all you cry babies. I'm never calling myself a libertarian again after seeing all this pathetic shit posted about Ron and Rand. You're all despicable. I hope neither see what is being posted on these forums; and if they do, I hope they know that some of us are grateful.

[DerailingDaTrain]

To me this is completely separate from the campaign issues since it's Rand and him alone.