Are You Ready to Work Until You’re 80?

[DamianTV]

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/ready-until-80-172821954.html


A seemingly off-hand remark made by Robert Benmosche the CEO of AIG (AIG) has become a bit of a viral online debate, as people of all ages and walks of life weigh in on the idea of bumping up the retirement age to 80. While Benmosche's comments to Bloomberg suggest the age increase is needed to maintain the level of benefits we have been promised and are accustomed to, not everyone is on board with the idea.

"There's a difference between austerity and just moving out the retirement age," says Lee Munson, Chief Investment Officer at Portfolio, LLC and the author of the book Rigged Money: Beating Wall Street At Its Own Game. "Most people aren't functional at that age."

As it is, the retirement age is already creeping higher and is up to 67 now for anyone born after 1960. In fact, one of the reasons people like Munson (and me) "don't think it's going to work" is as much about mortality rates as it is about expectations.

"The mortality curve is starting to flatten out," Munson says. "I wouldn't expect 20 years from now we are all going to live to be 100 or 110." He adds that the last thing the U.S. needs now is to "end up like the Middle East, where we have a bunch of young, unemployed people getting pissed."

Interestingly, his final point regarding unemployment would likely be the worst unintended consequence of sentencing grandma and grandpa to an extra 15 years of hard labor. In fact, delayed retirements brought on by a deep and prolonged recession and plunging asset values are already gumming up the normal and orderly transference of jobs from old to young. The latest payroll data released last week showed an 8.2% unemployment rate—but for individuals under 20, the rate tripled to 24.6%.

Munson's message to anyone younger than 60 who might be shocked at the thought of their retirement getting pushed back by 15 years: it's time to come to grips with reality.

"We have to realize that we need to lower our expectations, because, simply stated, the baby boomers didn't save enough, and we're running too big of a deficit," he says. He argues that it is "disingenuous and dishonest" to suggest that we can maintain our current quality of life and level of spending into the distant future.

Such a plan also strikes me as socially divisive and politically lethal. It is often said that to mess with social security and medicare benefits is to touch the third-rail of politics. However, I can imagine that requiring future generations to work and pay-in to the retirement system for 25% longer (and presumably cash out for 25% fewer years) is not going to gain a lot of support either.

Even though a retirement age of 80 is merely a discussion at this point, if nothing else, it portrays how poorly we have manged our fiscal affairs, while recklessly leveraging the futures of the children, youth, and young families of today.


Work until Im 80? I cant even keep the same job without being laid off until im 40!

[paulbot24]

"...the last thing the U.S. needs now is to "end up like the Middle East, where we have a bunch of young, unemployed people getting pissed."

TOOOOOOOOO LAAAAAAAAATE.

[jbauer]

They need to tie SS/Medicare/Medicaid to life expectancy. Of frankly let me opt out and stop paying 15.3% (slightly less for now) into a program I'll never see a dime out of.

[Anti Federalist]

I never had any illusions about "retiring".

I'll be working until I'm dead.

[specsaregood]

I never had any illusions about "retiring".
I'll be working until I'm dead.

You and me both pal.

[heavenlyboy34]

I never had any illusions about "retiring".

I'll be working until I'm dead.
This^^ I dunno why people even want to retire. Sitting around doing nothing for 20+ years strikes me as stupid. The retirement age really ought to be raised considering the average lifespan and quality of life has dramatically increased since the "official" government retirement scheme came to be. My dad, for example, could easily do a desk job or something simple. All he does is sit around listening to the radio/watching TV all day. He's even still able to go hiking in the local mountain trails. Useless person, as fire11 would say. ;) lolz

[Victor Grey]

I never had any illusions about "retiring".

I'll be working until I'm dead.

:\

[thoughtomator]

Given that retirement is apparently a euphemism for 20 years in Florida picking up prescriptions and exchanging complaints about various ailments, I don't see the attraction.

[Anti Federalist]

This^^ I dunno why people even want to retire. Sitting around doing nothing for 20+ years strikes me as stupid. The retirement age really ought to be raised considering the average lifespan and quality of life has dramatically increased since the "official" government retirement scheme came to be. My dad, for example, could easily do a desk job or something simple. All he does is sit around listening to the radio/watching TV all day. He's even still able to go hiking in the local mountain trails. Useless person, as fire11 would say. ;) lolz

If you put in a whole lifetime doing some of the work that I've done over the years, you'd look forward to sitting around.;)

Luckily for me, it's mental stress now and not physical.

[paulbot24]

This^^ I dunno why people even want to retire. Sitting around doing nothing for 20+ years strikes me as stupid. The retirement age really ought to be raised considering the average lifespan and quality of life has dramatically increased since the "official" government retirement scheme came to be. My dad, for example, could easily do a desk job or something simple. All he does is sit around listening to the radio/watching TV all day. He's even still able to go hiking in the local mountain trails. Useless person, as fire11 would say. ;) lolz

Very valid point and I agree...until I hear the latest from my 81 year old dad's bout with cancer and chemo because of the all-knowing FDA promoting the use of asbestos in all forms of insulation. He even has one of those outdated things called a pension from a sheet metal union and still had to work until last year, right up until he just couldn't because of the pain from cancer. It frustrates me when I consider how government intervention has ruined so many lives. I agree with how you make your point. I disagree with the federal government's interpretation of that point.

[angelatc]

I never had any illusions about "retiring".

I'll be working until I'm dead.

Actually, that is how most of our ancestors lived. The idea that we're "owed" an easy, work free life in out later years is a rather modern invention. That said, I really don't want to be that slow old lady working the register at McDonalds. I will if I have to though.

[jj-]

I'm not. I'm gonna buy an island and become its king.

[heavenlyboy34]

If you put in a whole lifetime doing some of the work that I've done over the years, you'd look forward to sitting around.;)

Luckily for me, it's mental stress now and not physical.
Well, if you've been in heavy labor for a living and have worn yourself to the point where you literally can't work anymore, you're more disabled than retired. (as a former welder, I can say this with great certainty) ;)

[heavenlyboy34]

Actually, that is how most of our ancestors lived. The idea that we're "owed" an easy, work free life in out later years is a rather modern invention. That said, I really don't want to be that slow old lady working the register at McDonalds. I will if I have to though.
Amen, sister! Truth-speaking, right there^^

[Keith and stuff]

I was told by the government that I may retire at 67. However, I fully expect the rate to be pushed to 70 something by then. I didn't expect it to be 80. Oh well. I guess I can be a Walmart greeter.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

I was told by the government that I may retire at 67. However, I fully expect the rate to be pushed to 70 something by then. I didn't expect it to be 80. Oh well. I guess I can be a Walmart greeter.Welcome to Walmart

[rockerrockstar]

80 is way too much unless they invent anti aging that works to keep you youthful forever. I figured they would extend retirement to 70 but not 80. With the way things have been a person is lucky to stay employed at those later years. I have troubles staying emloyed now in my 30s.

Telling us to wait to 80 is like telling us to die before we get any cash because many will not make it that long. Currently retiring at 67 at least you have a chance of being healthy enough to enjoy your retirement for a while.

Our country should invest into anti aging science and once we discover how to keep our selfs youthful we could end/phase out social security.

[donnay]

I am with Dr. Paul I want to opt-out of the whole ponzi scheme. Allow a truly free market without government involved and people can determine when they would like to retire and live on their own property they worked hard for--rent free! :mad:

[Origanalist]

It's way past time we quit coddling the older generation. Make it 90.

[farreri]

Where does the constitution dictate a retirement age?

[Anti Federalist]

I am with Dr. Paul I want to opt-out of the whole ponzi scheme. Allow a truly free market without government involved and people can determine when they would like to retire and live on their own property they worked hard for--rent free! :mad:

Abolish property taxation!

[phill4paul]

With the majority in this post. I don't even understand the concept of retirement. It seems a quick way to the grave. 47 years now. Looking forward to another 40. My paw-paw made it to 92 fishing catfish in the Coosa river. Never complained a bit. It was a challenge and 'cash under the table.' When it came time he gave up the ghost in less than a weeks time.

[phill4paul]

Abolish property taxation!

The absolute litmus of a truly free country. PERIOD.

[Philhelm]

Extend family *cough* *cough*

Seriously, I can't imagine how most people will be able to work until they're 80 years old. If families actually took care of themselves, this wouldn't be a problem for most people.

[ryanmkeisling]

Yes! There is nothing I enjoy more than bust your balls hard work, and making sure I am well paid to do it.

[Origanalist]

Extend family *cough* *cough*

Seriously, I can't imagine how most people will be able to work until they're 80 years old. If families actually took care of themselves, this wouldn't be a problem for most people.

Isn't that what we ALL used to do?

[heavenlyboy34]

Extend family *cough* *cough*

Seriously, I can't imagine how most people will be able to work until they're 80 years old. If families actually took care of themselves, this wouldn't be a problem for most people.
I can't imagine NOT doing that unless I were too crippled to do anything. Sitting around in a house or retirement home sounds incredibly fucking boring to me. Plus, the kiddies can always benefit from my vast life experience by asking me questions and/or being my apprentice. :)

[donnay]

Extend family *cough* *cough*

Seriously, I can't imagine how most people will be able to work until they're 80 years old. If families actually took care of themselves, this wouldn't be a problem for most people.

Absolutely! +rep

[phill4paul]

Extend family *cough* *cough*

Seriously, I can't imagine how most people will be able to work until they're 80 years old. If families actually took care of themselves, this wouldn't be a problem for most people.

I agree families should take care of their own. However, I take umbrage with this statement..


I can't imagine how most people will be able to work until they're 80 years old.

Work ain't 'work' if you do what it is you want to do. It's life. I'll 'live' as long as I can. I've got two 'exit' plans. One for if I die unexpectedly. One for when I decide 'it is time.' Since I've covered the end the rest comes down to 'living.'

[paulbot24]

I agree families should take care of their own. However, I take umbrage with this statement..



Work ain't 'work' if you do what it is you want to do. It's life. I'll 'live' as long as I can. I've got two 'exit' plans. One for if I die unexpectedly. One for when I decide 'it is time.' Since I've covered the end the rest comes down to 'living.'

No wonder you have Hunter S. Thompson in your signature.:cool:

[heavenlyboy34]

Work ain't 'work' if you do what it is you want to do. It's life. I'll 'live' as long as I can. I've got two 'exit' plans. One for if I die unexpectedly. One for when I decide 'it is time.' Since I've covered the end the rest comes down to 'living.'
+a zillion. Do what you love and you'll never work a day in your life. :)

[Bane Of The State]

Where did this idea come from, that you are entitled to other people's money for doing nothing the last 15 years of your life? Get off your ass and get a job, granny.

[heavenlyboy34]

Where did this idea come from, that you are entitled to other people's money for doing nothing the last 15 years of your life? Get off your ass and get a job, granny.
Read up on "The Great Society". ;)

[UWDude]

Given that retirement is apparently a euphemism for 20 years in Florida picking up prescriptions and exchanging complaints about various ailments, I don't see the attraction.

How about not having someone telling you what to do for half of your waking life?
How about seeing a sunny day, and not having to skip out on fishing, or hiking, because somebody needs you to make them more money?
How about sleeping in when you are sick, or weak, instead of going to work and toughing it out as soon as you can stand again?


+a zillion. Do what you love and you'll never work a day in your life. :)

Who is going to pump the septic tanks, pick up the garbage cans, sweep the hallways, clean out the gutters, clean out the fry machines, put up with demanding customers over the phone, etc. etc.?

The above cliche only applies to people that can afford to do what they love., or people who are owners of their businesses. As it is, the current trend is certainly not towards more small businesses.

[phill4paul]

No wonder you have Hunter S. Thompson in your signature.:cool:

I admit I do like the cat. He was off on many things..predictions of the ramifications of Iran/Contra. Then again he is only a mortal that relied heavily on betting odds. I'm not a betting man myself. So I don't subscribe to that foible.

He was an excellent commentator and reporter for the years in which he wrote. Some of his colloquialism was on par with Clemens.

[heavenlyboy34]

How about not having someone telling you what to do for half of your waking life?
How about seeing a sunny day, and not having to skip out on fishing, or hiking, because somebody needs you to make them more money?
How about sleeping in when you are sick, or weak, instead of going to work and toughing it out as soon as you can stand again?
Unless you're independently wealthy or live with someone generous, it ain't gonna happen unless you're stealing from workers. Sorry.

[phill4paul]

How about not having someone telling you what to do for half of your waking life?
How about seeing a sunny day, and not having to skip out on fishing, or hiking, because somebody needs you to make them more money?
How about sleeping in when you are sick, or weak, instead of going to work and toughing it out as soon as you can stand again?

I do all the above. When it suits me.

What is it I am doing wrong?

[UWDude]

Unless you're independently wealthy or live with someone generous, it ain't gonna happen unless you're stealing from workers. Sorry.

Oh, I forgot, pension plans are evil. Evil unions and their evil pension plans and their evil collective bargaining.


Actually, that is how most of our ancestors lived.

Is that so? Please expound upon this, and bring facts. Also, please tell me if that was the way it was in most Asian societies as well.

Also, just because our ancestors did it, why should we?
Why are we inventing all these machines to do all this work if it still means we have to work until we drop dead?


I do all the above. When it suits me.

What is it I am doing wrong?

Probably not working for a strict or understaffed company.

[John F Kennedy III]

If they would stop purposely poisoning our air, food and water, fix the purposely broken medical system....allow a free market on life extension techniques...and fix our purposely broken economy....we might all be perfectly capable of working until we're 180....and there would be plenty of jobs for us.

[UWDude]

And you have to love the irony this is coming from the CEO of AIG.
Plenty of resources available for the bankers, and their families, and mistresses, and $300,000 massage parlors... ...not enough for the workers.

[heavenlyboy34]

Oh, I forgot, pension plans are evil. Evil unions and their evil pension plans and their evil collective bargaining.

Quit putting words in my mouth. You didn't say anything about pensions before. Had you done so, I wouldn't have made that comment.

[heavenlyboy34]

H
Who is going to pump the septic tanks, pick up the garbage cans, sweep the hallways, clean out the gutters, clean out the fry machines, put up with demanding customers over the phone, etc. etc.?

The above cliche only applies to people that can afford to do what they love., or people who are owners of their businesses. As it is, the current trend is certainly not towards more small businesses.
People who don't have the ambition to be entrepreneurs or take on more advanced careers. Believe it or not, some people love doing manual labor. Get to know some janitors and other laborers sometime. They're pretty interesting.

[UWDude]

Quit putting words in my mouth. You didn't say anything about pensions before. Had you done so, I wouldn't have made that comment.

you said this:


Unless you're independently wealthy or live with someone generous, it ain't gonna happen unless you're stealing from workers. Sorry.

So I guess you forgot about pension plans?

[heavenlyboy34]

So I guess you forgot about pension plans?
Yep. Shit happens, sorry. :o

[UWDude]

People who don't have the ambition to be entrepreneurs or take on more advanced careers. Believe it or not, some people love doing manual labor. Get to know some janitors and other laborers sometime. They're pretty interesting.

They love it until they are too old to do it, and that usually happens around 60. And, um... yeah, I know lots of labor-workers.


Yep. Shit happens, sorry.

Big man points for you, then. :)

[Sullivan*]

If they would stop purposely poisoning our air, food and water, fix the purposely broken medical system....allow a free market on life extension techniques...and fix our purposely broken economy....we might all be perfectly capable of working until we're 180....and there would be plenty of jobs for us.
I thought it was supposed to be 120? :p

[phill4paul]

Probably not working for a strict or understaffed company.

No. That's just crazy talk. Do you? Why? I do admit that as my own 'company' I have seen a downturn on my company profits in the last two years.. However, that same downturn is opening up new revenue these days. "One day you're up. The next you're down. It's a half an inch of water and you think you are gonna drown.'

[UWDude]

Also, work is changing. It is becoming more mental stress, less physical stress. And lots of people love their office jobs, because there is lots of family-feeling, camaraderie, and most of all, NOT MUCH WORK. Yes, I said it, office jobs, (and this is from talking to people) many times only have about 10 hours of work a week. The rest is meetings and facebook.

However, the closer you get to the frontlines between worker and customer, the more stressful teh job becomes.
Also, I know MANY I.T. professionals who quit after 10 years because of the massive amounts of stress, they simply decided the stress was not worth it.
I also know someone who had been in computer security, high level, for over 40 years. He wanted to retire, because he simply was tired of making all his life and reading time about keeping up on security. He retired, played golf, but had to come back, because his government agency severely needed him.

He is a millionaire... ...but he is also twice divorced, and back to being old without a life outside his work.

[UWDude]

No. That's just crazy talk. Do you? Why? I do admit that as my own 'company' I have seen a downturn on my company profits in the last two years.. However, that same downturn is opening up new revenue these days. "One day you're up. The next you're down. It's a half an inch of water and you think you are gonna drown.'

I did. Many times. I do not own my own company, although I have done independent contracting.
But please, let us not forget, and I do not mean this in any sort of sarcastic way, but the people at RPF are a lot smarter than your average Joe.
Not everybody can be a successful entrepreneur.

[Demigod]

I don't understand why you hate retirement so much.People have given money into that fund for decades and after working for more than 40 years ( jobs they don't usually like ) I think it is fair to at least have 10-20 years where you do what you want to.If someone wants to seat in a chair until they die it is perfectly normal as the guy who wants to repair cars in his garage.

Also with today's stress and unhealthy living I don't think most will get over 75 let alone 80.

If you are looking someone to blame for the SS problem it is the politicians,they should be in court for embezzlement of peoples pensions and have everything confiscated to be put into SS while new generations can take care of their own pension.But in any case it is not fare to pay for something for 40-50 years and then collect it only for 10.

[John F Kennedy III]

I blame the people for the SS mess. They keep electing politicians that won't do a damn thing to fix it.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

80 is way too much unless they invent anti aging that works to keep you youthful forever. I figured they would extend retirement to 70 but not 80. With the way things have been a person is lucky to stay employed at those later years. I have troubles staying emloyed now in my 30s.

Telling us to wait to 80 is like telling us to die before we get any cash because many will not make it that long. Currently retiring at 67 at least you have a chance of being healthy enough to enjoy your retirement for a while.

Our country should invest into anti aging science and once we discover how to keep our selfs youthful we could end/phase out social security.


Our "country" stealing our wealth and "investing" in shit is what caused this problem in the first place. Let's not call for more of it, please.

[Barrex]

Are You Ready to Work Until You’re 80? (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?379430-Are-You-Ready-to-Work-Until-You%E2%80%99re-80/page6)

Is this a rhetorical question? It doesnt matter if you are or not you will...Not just in US but everywhere (even moon colonies if Newt is president)

[ClydeCoulter]

Wow, I don't see SS as a gimme. I saw it as forced savings for retirement.
And the statement that us Baby Boomers didn't save enough, wow really, and just how much is the dollar worth right now?
When I was 17, gas was 17 cents, that's cents. I could walk down the road and pick up enough coke bottles to collect the 10 cents deposit on them to drive around all evening in a short amount of time.
I'm sure these guys talking about raising the retirement age are going to be suffering for the good of the economy right along with everyone else, right?
Ah, crap, just give me my $130,000.00+ back with interest and inflation offset and I'll take care of my own retirement.
edit: Oh, that's right, they don't have it anymore, they used it all up to kill Iraqi's, Afghani's, Lybians, and others, against my will.

[seraphson]

There's also the other thing to remember in that if you love what you do you never work a day in your life.

[angelatc]

I can't imagine NOT doing that unless I were too crippled to do anything. Sitting around in a house or retirement home sounds incredibly fucking boring to me. Plus, the kiddies can always benefit from my vast life experience by asking me questions and/or being my apprentice. :)

Yeah, because the young people are always soooo interested in listening to the wisdom of their elders!

If I had my druthers' I'd be rich and travel. That was my original plan. But now it looks like things aren't going to work out that way, so I'll work or volunteer.

The thing that bothers me about working is this: Haven't you guys ever worked with, or been served by, some old person, and been annoyed by them? I don't want to be that person.

[angelatc]

I blame the people for the SS mess. They keep electing politicians that won't do a damn thing to fix it.

THe last time I remember seeing a CBO report on SS, they analyzed several propositions. One, eliminating the earnings cap, would solve the problem. The media never, ever talked about that one. I can only assume that all those broadcast professionals make over the $98k a year or something.

Personally, I wish they'd just freeze everything. Freeze the amounts people collect, freeze the earnings cap, and let inflation force market forces back into the equation. But seriously - I've done payroll for years and years. I can't tell you how many people have walked into my office wondering why their take-home pay suddenly went up. They literally had no idea that there even was an earnings cap on SS wages.

These games are as much about control as anything.

[Kluge]

Yeah, because the young people are always soooo interested in listening to the wisdom of their elders!

If I had my druthers' I'd be rich and travel. That was my original plan. But now it looks like things aren't going to work out that way, so I'll work or volunteer.

The thing that bothers me about working is this: Haven't you guys ever worked with, or been served by, some old person, and been annoyed by them? I don't want to be that person.

My grandma was that rich old lady who traveled the world, barely left a cent for her kids--turned out to be a good thing. :p She was awesome. She didn't care about stuff like "retirement age" because she had a rich boyfriend and made her money via investments, the only "work" she ever did was costume design for the local theater, she was a pretty talented seamstress.

And yeah, not all old people are wonderful, some are total dicks.

[angelatc]

And yeah, not all old people are wonderful, some are total dicks.

It's not just that - they slow down, mentally as well as physically. Usually employers are pretty good about finding busy work for them, but I can't help but think about an old woman that worked at a McD's near me. She must have been 85, and she was as nice as could be - but she couldn't keep orders straight, she got mixed up counting change, and watching her mop was painful, because she wasn't exactly spry either.

Our playgroup used to meet there, so I know the other Moms noticed it too. Some of them weren't as nice as me (hard to believe!!!), and they'd change lines if they saw her take over a register, or berate her if she messed up their order again.


God Bless the manager there for keeping her there when there were certainly younger workers who would take that job. It's not that I don't want her to work - I respected her a lot for that. It's just that I don't want to be her.

[Kluge]

It's not just that - they slow down, mentally as well as physically. Usually employers are pretty good about finding busy work for them, but I can't help but think about an old woman that worked at a McD's near me. She must have been 85, and she was as nice as could be - but she couldn't keep orders straight, she got mixed up counting change, and watching her mop was painful, because she wasn't exactly spry either.

Our playgroup used to meet there, so I know the other Moms noticed it too. Some of them weren't as nice as me (hard to believe!!!), and they'd change lines if they saw her take over a register, or berate her if she messed up their order again.


God Bless the manager there for keeping her there when there were certainly younger workers who would take that job. It's not that I don't want her to work - I respected her a lot for that. It's just that I don't want to be her.

Gotcha. Yeah, that doesn't seem to be a dignified way to spend your last years.

My other, non-rich, grandma knitted, tatted and sewed for extra money after she retired. She'd mostly sell to people in her apartment complex, but also at craft shows. She was actually part of the black market. :p

I don't have skills like that, so I might end up being the addled McDonald's lady unless I work on picking up a few useful skills.

[rockerrockstar]

I don't understand why you hate retirement so much.People have given money into that fund for decades and after working for more than 40 years ( jobs they don't usually like ) I think it is fair to at least have 10-20 years where you do what you want to.If someone wants to seat in a chair until they die it is perfectly normal as the guy who wants to repair cars in his garage.

Also with today's stress and unhealthy living I don't think most will get over 75 let alone 80.

If you are looking someone to blame for the SS problem it is the politicians,they should be in court for embezzlement of peoples pensions and have everything confiscated to be put into SS while new generations can take care of their own pension.But in any case it is not fare to pay for something for 40-50 years and then collect it only for 10.

I agree with this.

[rockerrockstar]

Wow, I don't see SS as a gimme. I saw it as forced savings for retirement.
And the statement that us Baby Boomers didn't save enough, wow really, and just how much is the dollar worth right now?
When I was 17, gas was 17 cents, that's cents. I could walk down the road and pick up enough coke bottles to collect the 10 cents deposit on them to drive around all evening in a short amount of time.
I'm sure these guys talking about raising the retirement age are going to be suffering for the good of the economy right along with everyone else, right?
Ah, crap, just give me my $130,000.00+ back with interest and inflation offset and I'll take care of my own retirement.
edit: Oh, that's right, they don't have it anymore, they used it all up to kill Iraqi's, Afghani's, Lybians, and others, against my will.

I agree with you too. The Government wasted the money. The people that paid in should be paid their benefits they did nothing wrong. The people will probably get the short end of the stick sooner or later.

[rockerrockstar]

The obvious solution is to increase the earnings cap and possibly increase retirement age a few years to maybe 70 at most. The truth is that getting rid of Social Security is not really an option that will politically be acceptable. That will not change tell a collapse of the financial system and even then it is not certain.

[oyarde]

Am I ? No , I will not.

[ClydeCoulter]

I told my youngest son that if I get to where I can't take care of myself or don't know who he is anymore, take me out to the woods and leave me to the coyotes, I don't want to go to a nursing home and I don't want to be a burden. He said "no", but I'm working on him...

When retired, I'm planning on doing things that I could not do because of working for living. Learn new things, maybe come up with new things, experiment with nature, etc... I'm doing some of that now, since I'm kind of in a semi-retirement state (not actually retired in the legal sense). Like, I built my own CNC Rounter, really cool to use, built my own house with my hands, grow a fairly large garden, etc...

Too bad your eyesight and memory get worse as you get older, it doesn't seem right that when young you have all that but usually can't do as much with it as when you have the experience and knowlege to do so much if only the body would cooperate.

Oh well....

[heavenlyboy34]

Yeah, because the young people are always soooo interested in listening to the wisdom of their elders!

If I had my druthers' I'd be rich and travel. That was my original plan. But now it looks like things aren't going to work out that way, so I'll work or volunteer.

The thing that bothers me about working is this: Haven't you guys ever worked with, or been served by, some old person, and been annoyed by them? I don't want to be that person.
Well, service jobs are usually not the best for the elderly. I've never been elderly, but I imagine there's something they can do. By the time you're too old to do anything at all, that's the time for retirement. Not 20 years before. My dad got pretty close to 80 before retiring (about 8 years short, IIRC) and he was doing maintenance at GE till the end. Lifespans are much higher than they were when SS and official retirement age began, so it's rational for the retirement age to go up.

[heavenlyboy34]

I agree with you too. The Government wasted the money. The people that paid in should be paid their benefits they did nothing wrong. The people will probably get the short end of the stick sooner or later.
They already get the short end of the stick. They get paid in depreciated dollars, and no one gets back the full value that they were forced to pay in.

[angelatc]

I agree with you too. The Government wasted the money. The people that paid in should be paid their benefits they did nothing wrong. The people will probably get the short end of the stick sooner or later.

The thought process "I'll get my money back" is flawed, because that's never how it was intended to work. Essentially, your grandma voted to make you give part of your money to her, along with a promise that your grandkids would pay you back. But while you gave Grandma $500, your grandkids will be giving you $5000.


It's a way for the older generation to enslave the younger generation.

[angelatc]

They already get the short end of the stick. They get paid in depreciated dollars, and no one gets back the full value that they were forced to pay in.

That's not right. Most people draw far more than they put in.

[angelatc]

The obvious solution is to increase the earnings cap and possibly increase retirement age a few years to maybe 70 at most. The truth is that getting rid of Social Security is not really an option that will politically be acceptable. That will not change tell a collapse of the financial system and even then it is not certain.

Even Ron Paul says it can't be ended overnight.

[PaulConventionWV]

Given that retirement is apparently a euphemism for 20 years in Florida picking up prescriptions and exchanging complaints about various ailments, I don't see the attraction.

Tell me about it. I don't want to retire like that. Hell, I'm striking the word retirement from my dictionary. Whatever I want to do is what I'll do, and I plan to have the means to do it.

[jj-]

Also, work is changing. It is becoming more mental stress, less physical stress.

It'll change back when SHTF.

[heavenlyboy34]

That's not right. Most people draw far more than they put in.
Yes, but IIRC, price and currency inflation eats that difference up. Hence the "cost of living" increases that happen once in a while.

[moostraks]

I am of the crowd that fully expects to work indefinately and wouldn't want it any other way. Of course I am a sahm so I am trying to figure ways in which when dh is no longer employed outside the home, we can be self-sufficient and not a burden to anyone. However, should that situation arise we have paid off our home and between the 8children we have they will hopefully be willing and able to do as was done before the S.S. nightmare was thrust upon us, take care of their own.

I think the children are being raised without a sense of responsibility to their elders and it is sad. So what do you expect but for the attitude seen in "The Case for Killing Granny"? The gripping and moaning about the ponzi scheme known as social security is that the government took over and forced people into doing what was considered the responsible thing families were supposed to do and now people complain about the fact they are paying for their elders and hate and resent them.(Even though they should have expected to do such on their own willingly as necessary...)

The women from the aforementioned play group at McDonalds should be ashamed of themselves. Heaven forbid someone slow down their oh so important lives. Karma has a way of remedying pride and self-importance. Although, truth be told it is the ugliness of the society we live in today which is fruits of the seeds sown by the generation before. Those of us who are trying to raise our children with strong family values have to be carefull as to what exposure to the general public is allowed by our children as they are growing up so they are not poisoned with the values that seem so prevalent today...