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John F Kennedy III
05-30-2012, 05:32 PM
Pastor Sentenced To 2 Years In Prison For Teaching That Parents Should Spank Their Children



Michael Snyder The American Dream Wednesday, May 30, 2012

Do you believe that parents should be able to spank their children? Do you ever express that opinion to others? If so, then you could be sent to prison. Sadly, that is exactly what happened to one pastor up in Wisconsin recently.

A minister named Philip Caminiti was sentenced to 2 years in prisonfor simply teaching that parents should spank their children when they misbehave. Please note that Caminiti was not accused of spanking anyone or of physically hurting anyone. He was put in prison simply for his speech. He was put in prison simply for what he was teaching others to do. Whether you agree with spanking or not, this should be incredibly sobering for all of us. Increasingly, speech is being penalized in the United States. Much of the time, the focus of the attacks by the forces of political correctness is on religious speech. If this trend continues, many of you that are reading this article might be put in jail for the things that you say in the coming years.

When many of us were growing up, once in a while our parents would take out a belt or a wooden paddle and give us a paddling on the behind when we did something wrong.

Was there anything wrong with that?

Of course not.

Yes, there is real child abuse that goes on out there, but in the vast majority of instances spanking does not do any lasting physical harm. Rather, it benefits the child because it helps them learn what is right and what is wrong.

I know that when I got a licking on the behind as a child that helped me to remember not to do the same thing again.

But Dane County Circuit Judge Maryann Sumi was absolutely horrified that some parents would actually use a wooden spoon to spank their little children when they misbehaved.

Perhaps that judge should actually try to spank someone with a wooden spoon some time. You simply cannot do much damage with a wooden spoon.

Instead of going after the parents who were doing the spanking, prosecutors chose to go after the pastor instead. They claimed that Caminiti was “the spoke in the wheel of this conspiracy“.

Even after Caminiti leaves prison, he will be forbidden from having any contact with his old church….

Caminiti will be on extended supervision for six years after his release from prison. Despite objections on constitutional grounds by Caminiti’s lawyers, Sumi ordered that he not have any contact with the Aleitheia Bible Church and have no leadership role in any church.

What in the world is happening to this country?

Criminal predators are literally eating the faces off of people, and yet authorities want to go after pastors that are encouraging their congregations to follow the teachings of the Bible?

Have we stepped into a really bizarre episode of The Twilight Zone?

Sadly, this is not the only example of how our free speech is under attack these days.

Up in New York, a new bill was recently introduced that would outlaw all “mean-spirited and baseless political attacks”.

I think that would cover a whole lot of people that leave comments on my blog.

The following is how a recent article by Kurt Nimmo described what this new law would require….

New York state government is attempting to pass the measure in both the Senate and the Assembly. The legislation has been referred to the Codes Committee in the Senate, and the Government Operations Committee in the Assembly.

Both proposals are identical and would effect messages posted on message boards, blogs, social networks, and “any other discussion site where people can hold conversations in the form of posted messages.” The law would require websites to post email addresses for “removal requests, clearly visible in any sections where comments are posted.” Those demanding the removal of content they find objectionable, however, would have their anonymity protected.

“Had the internet been around in the late 1700s, perhaps the anonymously written Federalist Papers would have to be taken down unless Alexander Hamilton, James Madison and John Jay revealed themselves,” notesDavid Kravets, writing for Wired.

Will we soon see laws such as this nationwide?

Will all blogs and websites soon be at the mercy of the politically correct police?

Up in Buffalo, New York it is apparently now against the law to hand out Christian tracts on a public sidewalk. At least that is what one man was told recently when he attempted to hand out tracts outside of an Italian heritage festival. The following is from a recent WorldNetDaily article….

While handing out tracts to willing recipients on a public street during a public festival, Owen was approached by a police officer who declined to identify himself but told him that the Buffalo Police Department is “the law” and he should stop handing out tracts.

According to the lawsuit: “Subsequently, another police officer, Officer Slomka, arrived on the scene. She quickly informed Owen that they could not hand out tracts in the festival and explained that the prohibition was ‘by our orders.’ Owen asked for her name, and she replied: ‘Slomka, write it down.’ Owen advised that he believed the tracts to be free speech; nonplussed, Officer Slomka reiterated that they couldn’t hand out tracts there and had to go outside of the festival area to continue with their expressive activity.”

Then, “Owen inquired as to whether they would be arrested if they continued to hand out tracts in the festival area, to which, Officer Slomka replied: ‘Yes.’”

That almost makes me angry enough to take a trip over to Buffalo and hand out tracts right outside the police station.

Even if you do not ever distribute literature, you should be alarmed at how our freedom of speech is being eroded.

The truth is that whenever anyone has their freedom of speech attacked it is an attack on all of us.

If we are not careful, we are going to end up just like Canada.

At one high school up in Canada recently, a student was suspended from school for a week for wearing a shirt with the following message….

“Life is wasted without Jesus”

The student was told that the shirt was “hate talk” and that he would be suspended for the rest of the year if he tried to wear it to school again.

They are coming for our free speech ladies and gentlemen.

They are not going to be satisfied until they have either shut all of us up or put all of us in prison.

It is imperative that we all stand up for free speech while we still can. Once our freedom of speech is gone, the loss of the rest of our freedoms will only be a matter of time.

Original article here:

http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/pastor-sentenced-to-2-years-in-prison-for-teaching-that-parents-should-spank-their-children

talkingpointes
05-30-2012, 05:42 PM
He is free to speak however so he desires, even in this case which I disagree. I think it's noteworthy that all the other clergy types that actually touch children -never get arrested.

Anti Federalist
05-30-2012, 05:48 PM
A minister named Philip Caminiti was sentenced to 2 years in prisonfor simply teaching that parents should spank their children when they misbehave. Please note that Caminiti was not accused of spanking anyone or of physically hurting anyone. He was put in prison simply for his speech. He was put in prison simply for what he was teaching others to do. Whether you agree with spanking or not, this should be incredibly sobering for all of us. Increasingly, speech is being penalized in the United States. Much of the time, the focus of the attacks by the forces of political correctness is on religious speech. If this trend continues, many of you that are reading this article might be put in jail for the things that you say in the coming years.

And the noose slips a little tighter.

AF, 20 years ago: "There will come a time and place where what you say will land you in prison!"

The P-Nut Gallery: "Shaddap, you conspiracy nut!"

John F Kennedy III
05-30-2012, 06:15 PM
And the noose slips a little tighter.

AF, 20 years ago: "There will come a time and place where what you say will land you in prison!"

The P-Nut Gallery: "Shaddap, you conspiracy nut!"

But when they came for me...

tod evans
05-30-2012, 06:21 PM
Get a rope!

satchelmcqueen
05-30-2012, 06:23 PM
my dads a preacher and he said this kind of thing was coming 20 years ago AF. glad we have some smart people in this country.

Anti Federalist
05-30-2012, 06:25 PM
my dads a preacher and he said this kind of thing was coming 20 years ago AF. glad we have some smart people in this country.
Too bad nobody listened to your dad.

UWDude
05-30-2012, 06:28 PM
Hmm, this article is poorly written, what were the charges, exactly?

A more thorough report:
http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/crime_and_courts/black-earth-pastor-found-guilty-in-child-abuse-case/article_6ce4663e-7395-11e1-8bf4-001871e3ce6c.html

eight counts of conspiracy to commit child abuse


Still, it's total B.S. he is being imprisoned for this.

The Bavarian
05-30-2012, 06:56 PM
My dad would give me a backhand when I did something I wasn't suppose to. Now as a 23 year old I'm glad he did, I learned something called taking responsibility for my actions. I really can't say the same for most of those my age.

I've never gotten in trouble with the law, never gotten addicted to drugs (ok I guess nicotine is a drug...), and learned to be my own man.

Because guess what, when you mess around in life and life gives you a backhand, you'll never stand back up ever again. So I'm glad my dad gave me the heads up.

People need to stop being such over emotional smartasses who think they know everything better. If I had a penny for all the people I met who should've gotten backhanded as kids, I'd be richer than Rothschild.

jmdrake
05-30-2012, 07:13 PM
Let's see. If a teacher spanks a child she loses her job and goes to prison.

If a parent spanks a child he loses his child and goes to prison.

If a pastor advocates child spanking he loses his 501C3 status and goes to prison.

If a police officer brutally arrests a child causing far more physical and emotional harm than a spanking with a wooden spoon ever could, he gets a promotion and is defended by that scum that call themselves "journalists" on the evening news.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_Ig34hQQXo

jmdrake
05-30-2012, 07:18 PM
Hmm, this article is poorly written, what were the charges, exactly?

A more thorough report:
http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/crime_and_courts/black-earth-pastor-found-guilty-in-child-abuse-case/article_6ce4663e-7395-11e1-8bf4-001871e3ce6c.html

eight counts of conspiracy to commit child abuse


Still, it's total B.S. he is being imprisoned for this.

I'd have to read the specific state statute in question, but under the model penal code a conspiracy requires an agreement between two or more persons to commit an illegal act. (See: http://www.lexisnexis.com/lawschool/study/outlines/html/crim/crim22.htm) Simply instructing others how to do an act or that should do an act doesn't typically fit the definition of conspiracy. If it did then every time someone said "You shouldn't pay your taxes" or made an instructional video on how to grow marijuana at home they would be guilt of conspiracy. This was advocacy which is protected by the first amendment. He should appeal this decision.

RickyJ
05-30-2012, 07:53 PM
Wow! This is crazy and something should be done about it. Are there not any lawyers that can do something for this man on this forum? If I was a lawyer I would take his case for nothing. Surely the judge is nuts and needs to be recalled and a new trial issued where the charges should be thrown out.

jbauer
05-30-2012, 08:02 PM
Is spanking illegal? Is a timeout legal?

Where do you draw the line on saying to do something illegal? Seems like a slippery slope to me.

RickyJ
05-30-2012, 08:25 PM
There is more to this story. http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/crime_and_courts/article_6ce4663e-7395-11e1-8bf4-001871e3ce6c.html#ixzz1wMgE6TIv

Now I see why he got the sentence he did. Spanking two month olds because they are crying? Yeah, he had some problems.

Danke
05-30-2012, 08:31 PM
If a pastor advocates child spanking he loses his 501C3 status and goes to prison.



501C3 being key here. Not necessary. Contract with the State, feel the consequences.

Anti Federalist
05-30-2012, 08:43 PM
Let's see. If a teacher spanks a child she loses her job and goes to prison.

If a parent spanks a child he loses his child and goes to prison.

If a pastor advocates child spanking he loses his 501C3 status and goes to prison.

If a police officer brutally arrests a child causing far more physical and emotional harm than a spanking with a wooden spoon ever could, he gets a promotion and is defended by that scum that call themselves "journalists" on the evening news.

That perhaps a spanking could have prevented an encounter with an "officer" in the first place.

Your post, as succinctly as I can imagine, states the world of shit we are now in.

+rep

Kluge
05-30-2012, 08:46 PM
If it's true that he advocated hitting 2 month-old babies, the parishoners should have run him out on a rail, not taken his advice like a bunch of brain-dead fucking morons.

James Madison
05-30-2012, 09:20 PM
Is spanking illegal? Is a timeout legal?

Where do you draw the line on saying to do something illegal? Seems like a slippery slope to me.

Everything you, as a mundane, do is illegal. Don't even fart in public or else Officer Friendly will protect and serve the shit out of you with his fists. And you'll thank him for not executing you on spot.

jmdrake
05-30-2012, 09:25 PM
There is more to this story. http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/crime_and_courts/article_6ce4663e-7395-11e1-8bf4-001871e3ce6c.html#ixzz1wMgE6TIv

Now I see why he got the sentence he did. Spanking two month olds because they are crying? Yeah, he had some problems.

And yet we live in a country where belonging to NABLA, an organization that encourages child molestation, is legal. Under that standard does this pastor's sentence still make sense? Advocacy != conspiracy. At least it didn't before today.

kuckfeynes
05-30-2012, 09:42 PM
Wow. If the 1st Amendment is that irrelevant anymore... Then there must be a breaking point coming soon.

And not the good peaceful kind we are trying to achieve.

If the government won't even protect freedom of speech, then there is really no reason to respect the law at all...

heavenlyboy34
05-30-2012, 09:47 PM
And the noose slips a little tighter.

AF, 20 years ago: "There will come a time and place where what you say will land you in prison!"

The P-Nut Gallery: "Shaddap, you conspiracy nut!"
You are a thought criminal AND speech criminal, just like the Pastor in the OP. To jail with you! ;)

jmdrake
05-30-2012, 10:26 PM
Wow. If the 1st Amendment is that irrelevant anymore... Then there must be a breaking point coming soon.

And not the good peaceful kind we are trying to achieve.

If the government won't even protect freedom of speech, then there is really no reason to respect the law at all...

The government violated at least 3 rights protected under the first amendment here. Freedom of speech, freedom of religion and freedom of peaceable assembly. And note that the prosecutor has not alleged physical abuse.

"What we have here are babies and children trying to develop into individuals," Rusch told the jury in her closing argument, "and it's being beaten out of them."

Read more: http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/crime_and_courts/article_6ce4663e-7395-11e1-8bf4-001871e3ce6c.html#ixzz1wPzAL4EF

Since when has the state cared about children becoming "individuals"? If they didn't public education as we know it wouldn't exist.

Xhin
05-31-2012, 05:55 AM
I've read the original source. What the fuck? Since when is freedom of speech a crime? Specifically one punishable by denying freedom of assembly?

NoOneButPaul
05-31-2012, 06:49 AM
Clearly there was more to this story and the guy didn't just get put away for speaking... the original article was grossly underreported... which I guess shouldn't be a shock to anyone.

Xhin
05-31-2012, 08:12 AM
The only crime I see here are idiot parents following this pastor's advice -- however there's still this thing called "freedom of speech" that should respect his right to say it.

Doug8796
05-31-2012, 12:51 PM
I am on the fence.. HE told parents to beat their children for crying at 2 months old And he is a prominent figure. There are shades of gray that prominent figures in society have a duty of not ordering followers to do horrid things such as this.

jmdrake
05-31-2012, 01:02 PM
I am on the fence.. HE told parents to beat their children for crying at 2 months old And he is a prominent figure. There are shades of gray that prominent figures in society have a duty of not ordering followers to do horrid things such as this.

Okay. Let's put this in perspective. He did not tell them to "beat" their children. He told them to spank their children. Despite the lies by the prosecutor, there is a difference. The prosecutor in no way alleged any physical harm done. He just claimed that the "individuality" was being "beat out". And his proof of this was......? I will go on record as saying that's not the discipline I would choose simply because I don't think a 2 month old is old enough to adequately internalize what's happening. But this was not child abuse. And the same government that claims that it is would gladly tazer this same baby in utero (http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2012/0529/Was-Taser-use-on-pregnant-woman-excessive-force-Supreme-Court-declines-case).

Think about what's happened. Under this standard, if it's not overturned by a higher court (hopefully it will be), every time any leader tells a group of people to do something that the government deems psychological abuse that's grounds for a conspiracy charge? What's next? A conspiracy to commit psychological abuse charge for telling people that hell exists? Maybe some child is damaged when his parent comes home and tells him there is no Easter Bunny or Santa Clause.

Revolution9
05-31-2012, 01:06 PM
That perhaps a spanking could have prevented an encounter with an "officer" in the first place.

Your post, as succinctly as I can imagine, states the world of shit we are now in.

+rep


This is precisely the point. They can't get full biometrics till you have been in custody at this point.


Rev9

Revolution9
05-31-2012, 01:08 PM
And the same government that claims that it is would gladly tazer this same baby in utero (http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2012/0529/Was-Taser-use-on-pregnant-woman-excessive-force-Supreme-Court-declines-case).
.

The new phrase for this for the new regime is "police normality".

Rev9

Intoxiklown
05-31-2012, 02:13 PM
OK...I watched that video.

Now, don't get me wrong, the school should have called the parents, not the police. However, to call that a "brutal arrest" is some serious hyperbole.

LibertyEagle
05-31-2012, 02:18 PM
The parents should be raising the kids; not the government. The government needs to keep their noses out of this. Man, things have gone to crap.

jmdrake
05-31-2012, 02:44 PM
OK...I watched that video.

Now, don't get me wrong, the school should have called the parents, not the police. However, to call that a "brutal arrest" is some serious hyperbole.

You're entitled to your opinion. I happen to disagree. I think that snatching a little girl out of her seat, twisting her arm and putting her in handcuffs was brutal. I'm certain that caused more psychological trauma than a spanking with a wooden spoon.