Economic collapse

[Xhin]

So, if there is a US economic collapse as Ron Paul predicts, what would actually happen? How would this affect your day-to-day life?

[wrestlingwes_8]

If it is as bad as the people who predicted the start of the economic downturn say it's going to be......millions of people will die...

[Dsylexic]

you guys have no faith in the market .it is a shame.while violence might flare up a bit, people will continue to a)eat c)wear clothes c)procreate d)entertain e)produce and exchange stuff.
i'll bet if govts collapse and stop tinkering around (are totally out of the picture),life will be back on tracks in a few weeks.the market/catallaxy has seen worse.

ofcourse,if the govt continues to exist in more a more violent form,dictatorship will be the next stage.
but can a bankrupt govt be a dictarorship?

[thoughtomator]

Canada is awfully nice this time of year, especially for draft-age males.







(Actually, Canada sucks all the time. But it's better than being cannon fodder....)

[Acala]

Hard to predict. Almost certainly some level of persistent austerity to which most of us are unaccustomed. Probably a more localized economy, with a large black market component, including unofficial currency. Almost certain to impact the rest of the world. Plenty of civil disorder and crime. An inept government trying to collect taxes, enforce order, and establish a new fiat currency with mixed results.

[sevin]

Peter Schiff always says there are two options.

1. The government makes extreme spending cuts (chopping medicare, social security, govt. pensions and food stamps in half, ending the wars and most government agencies, etc.). That would be VERY painful in the short run, but good in the long run.

2. The Fed keeps printing money to help the government pay for all those things, but that would result in hyperinflation, which means most of people's paychecks would go toward purchasing food. Also a VERY painful in the short run, and bad in the long run until the printing finally stops.

Personally, I think the government will walk the line between these two extremes. They will reluctantly make cuts, but not so many that they can stop the printing press. No matter what happens, it will be horrible and stressful time for all of us, as bad or worse than the Great Depression. But I don't think millions of people will die.

[wrestlingwes_8]

as bad or worse than the Great Depression. But I don't think millions of people will die.

You do realize that 7 million people died due to complications of the Great Depression right? That was when most of the population lived in rural areas and were largely self-sufficient. Today, less than like 5% of the population is self-sufficient. Shit will get crazy..

[Zippyjuan]

You do realize that 7 million people died due to complications of the Great Depression right? That was when most of the population lived in rural areas and were largely self-sufficient. Today, less than like 5% of the population is self-sufficient. Shit will get crazy..

Can you provide any links to support that?

Seems that the life expectancy actually rose during the Great Depression:
http://phys.org/news173371667.html

For the study, researchers used historical life expectancy and mortality data to examine associations between economic growth and population health for 1920 to 1940. They found that while population health generally improved during the four years of the Great Depression and during recessions in 1921 and 1938, mortality increased and life expectancy declined during periods of strong economic expansion, such as 1923, 1926, 1929, and 1936-1937.

The researchers analyzed age-specific mortality rates and rates due to six causes of death that composed about two-thirds of total mortality in the 1930s: cardiovascular and renal diseases, cancer, influenza and pneumonia, tuberculosis, motor vehicle traffic injuries, and suicide. The association between improving health and economic slowdowns was true for all ages, and for every major cause of death except one: suicide.

http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/science/2011/03/great-depression-had-little-effect-on-death-rates/

Great Depression Had Little Effect on Death Rates

There’s this somewhat counter-intuitive idea that economic downturns are good for your health. You might expect the privation and malnutrition inherent in such times would take a toll. But during the Great Depression, mortality rates fell. And since that time, the idea that recessions are a net-positive for health has only grown.

But a new study in the Journal of Epidemiology & Community Health questions that idea. The researchers examined mortality rates from 114 U.S. cities in 36 states between 1929 and 1937 along with data on bank suspensions, which were used as an indicator of the impact of the financial crisis in the individual states.

They found declines in deaths due to pneumonia, flu and tuberculosis and increases in deaths from heart disease, cancer and diabetes. But none of those causes of death were associated with bank suspensions, and only the increase in deaths from heart disease could plausibly relate to the economic depression, the scientists write.

Two causes of death did correlate with the pattern of bank suspensions: suicide rates rose but motor vehicle accidents declined, so much so that they outweighed the increase in suicides.

But there was more going on in the 1930s than just and economic downturn. The 20th century was a period of great change, particularly in terms of sanitation and health care, two factors that could account for much of the decrease in mortality during the Great Depression. In addition, the New Deal—the economic programs instituted between 1933 and 1936 to respond to the crisis—and Prohibition may have also had positive effects on health.

“Our study provides evidence that even major depressions do not imply mortality crises,” says study lead author David Stuckler, of the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine. “Whether health improves or worsens during hard times depends mainly on how governments choose to respond.”



US Population by Year (year, population, population change, and percent change):
http://www.npg.org/facts/us_historical_pops.htm

July 1, 1940 132,122,446 1,242,728 0.95
July 1, 1939 130,879,718 1,054,779 0.81
July 1, 1938 129,824,939 1,000,110 0.77
July 1, 1937 128,824,829 771,649 0.60
July 1, 1936 128,053,180 802,948 0.63
July 1, 1935 127,250,232 876,459 0.69
July 1, 1934 126,373,773 795,010 0.63
July 1, 1933 125,578,763 738,292 0.59
July 1, 1932 124,840,471 800,823 0.64
July 1, 1931 124,039,648 962,907 0.78
July 1, 1930 123,076,741 1,309,741 1.07
July 1, 1929 121,767,000 1,258,000 1.04
July 1, 1928 120,509,000 1,474,000 1.23
July 1, 1927 119,035,000 1,638,000 1.39
July 1, 1926 117,397,000 1,568,000 1.34
July 1, 1925 115,829,000 1,720,000 1.50

[Lucille]

I've read physicians were loathe to write "starvation" as a cause of death. Even on kids' death certificates, they would write heart failure or pneumonia or some other malady instead. Protecting FDR's evil murderous prog regime no doubt (just as wikipedia is doing today). And some still like to think that evil, fascist SOB sits at the left hand of God.


We also know that opportunistic infections and diseases like Tuberculosis and Pneumonia and Rickets were rampant during the Great Depression. Somehow these diseases became more virulent even though nobody was Starving? Not likely, the reason there were more epidemics of these things is likely because the population as a whole was weakened by malnourishment. So on the Death Certificate it doesn’t get recorded as Starvation, but as Pneumonia. In reality, they starved (http://www.doomsteaddiner.org/blog/tag/starvation/).

Man, if it looks like a Dead Fish; if it smells like a Dead Fish, it IS a Dead Fish. People definitely did starve during the Great Depression, but no records were ever published on how many it actually was. At a certain point the MSM just ignored it. It would not have played very well against FDRs Fireside Chats preaching Hope and “the only thing we have to Fear is Fear itself”.

We do know for a “fact” how many people starved or otherwise had very shortened lifespans over in Europe somehow though, variously quoted as around 13M to 16M when all the Jews, Gypsies and Ruskies who bought the farm are tallied up. How is it we have statistics on that but not statistics on ANY starvation related Death here? Answer to that is that he who wins the War writes the History Books.

Famine killed 7 million people in USA
http://english.pravda.ru/world/americas/19-05-2008/105255-famine-0/


Another online scandal has been gathering pace recently. Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, deleted an article by a Russian researcher, who wrote about the USA’s losses in the Great Depression of 1932-1933. Indignant bloggers began to actively distribute the article on the Russian part of a popular blog service known as Livejournal. The above-mentioned article triggered a heated debate.

The researcher touched upon quite a hot topic in the article – the estimation of the number of victims of the Great Depression in the USA. The material presented in the article apparently made Wikipedia’s moderators delete the piece from the database of the online encyclopedia.

The researcher, Boris Borisov, in his article titled “The American Famine” estimated the victims of the financial crisis in the US at over seven million people. The researcher also directly compared the US events of 1932-1933 with Holodomor, or Famine, in the USSR during 1932-1933.

In the article, Borisov used the official data of the US Census Bureau. Having revised the number of the US population, birth and date rates, immigration and emigration, the researcher came to conclusion that the United States lost over seven million people during the famine of 1932-1933.

“According to the US statistics, the US lost not less than 8 million 553 thousand people from 1931 to 1940. Afterwards, population growth indices change twice instantly exactly between 1930-1931: the indices drop and stay on the same level for ten years. There can no explanation to this phenomenon found in the extensive text of the report by the US Department of Commerce “Statistical Abstract of the United States,” the author wrote.
[...]
At the same time, the US government tried to get rid of redundant foodstuffs, which vendors could not sell. Market rules were observed strictly: unsold goods should always be categorized as redundant and they could not be given away to the poor because it could cause damage to businesses. A variety of methods was used to destroy redundant food. They burnt crops, drowned them in the ocean or plowed 10 million hectares of harvesting fields. “About 6.5 million pigs were killed at that time,” the researcher wrote.

[wrestlingwes_8]

Can you provide any links to support that?

Seems that the life expectancy actually rose during the Great Depression:
http://phys.org/news173371667.html


http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/science/2011/03/great-depression-had-little-effect-on-death-rates/


US Population by Year (year, population, population change, and percent change):
http://www.npg.org/facts/us_historical_pops.htm

I am done entertaining your stupidity

I've proved time and time again in numerous threads that you are nothing but a whore for establishment talking points. You do nothing but quote and site government websites; they are KNOWN LIARS YOU F*****G IDIOT. YOU are a perfect example with what is wrong with this country. Seriously, go play out in moving traffic or something.

Welcome to my ignore list you POS

[ctiger2]

Not IF... WHEN. What will happen is the purchasing power of the currency you're forced to use will drop by a crazy value like 100% in a couple of days. The things you NEED to live like Food and Energy will SKYROCKET priced in USD and the things you don't need to live, houses, cars, etc (basically MOST of your physical assets) will PLUMMET priced in USD. The economy will come to a halt since noone will be able to afford the energy to travel anywhere and the Govt will be forced into resetting the (global) monetary system. Could take 6mo or more. Martin Armstrong has already proposed legislation for monetary reform to the congress. It can only be implemented AFTER the crash. Checkout the markets now. It's crashing in slow motion. The Bond market bubble pop will be magnificent. It's all coming. Get mentally prepared to eat sand. lol!

[pcosmar]

I am done entertaining your stupidity


Alfred E. Neuman


Neuman's image was also used negatively, as a "supporter" of rival political candidates, with the idea that only an idiot would vote for them. In 1940, those opposing Franklin Delano Roosevelt's third-term reelection bid distributed postcards with a similar caricature bearing the caption, "Sure I'm for Roosevelt".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_E._Neuman


I suspect he entertains himself.

[Zippyjuan]

Borris Borinov gets his estimated number by taking population growth rates from the 1930 census and extrapolates that out to 1940- assuming that growth continued at the same pace. Any numbers below that he considered "missing people". But it ignores that the birth rate declined during the Great Depression and that fewer people were born (people could not afford to have as many kids).
http://www.911-archiv.net/Dies-und-das/91-7-million-American-dead-in-Great-Depression.html

B.B.: Seven and a half million people does not mean the number of particular victims of the famine, but a general demographic loss, or the difference between the supposed population on the date of the census that was due to be held in 1940 and the factual number of people. In reality, the total demographic loss is bigger. The fact is not contested by anyone. The figure is more than ten million people.

However, when you start researching the subject, you find that there is a migration component ? people were coming to the country and leaving. All can be calculated. It turns out then, that three million people can be subtracted at the cost of migration ? in approximate figures, as it is not a scientific report.


What"s left is 7.5 million people still missing. The question is:?





Voluntary defenders of U.S. values who venture to discuss the matter with me, normally begin with a statement that those people were simply not born. However, if we take the age pyramid and distribute the people according to their dates of birth, it becomes apparent that 5.5 million children and two million grown-ups are missing from the 7.5 million. So, those two million people could not have been non-existent ? as they had been born. They could only die.

As a result, I consider the two million of grown-up victims as the limit proved from the bottom ? for 10 years, let me emphasise this.

Could the remaining children out of those 5.5 not have been born? The U.S. statistics does not answer this question. If we use the method of international juxtapositions and see how demography reacted to similar disastrous events in other countries, we will see that the distribution of the demographic was divided between the children who had died and had not been born in the ratio of ? to ?. In other words, it"s from 2 to 4 million extra losses.

He is not examining any death records at all to come up with his figures. He was not measuring any actual deaths or people who actually died but people he thought should have existed. He assumes they "must have died" without even knowing if they were born in the first place. Note how much the birth rate declined- nearly 25% from 1928 to 1933.

http://www.shmoop.com/great-depression/statistics.html

Fertility Rates (per 100,000 women aged 15-44)
in 1928: 93.8
in 1929: 89.3
in 1930: 89.2
in 1931: 84.6
in 1932: 81.7
in 1933: 76.3
in 1934: 78.5
in 1935: 77.2
in 1936: 75.8
in 1937: 77.1
in 1938: 79.1
in 1939: 77.6
in 1940: 79.9
in 1941: 83.4
in 1942: 91.5

[Liberty74]

The economic collapse is not going to be bad at all. It's going to be fucking devastating. The governments all know this. The amount of debt Greece and almost all European countries is not as large as America but that is not the important number. Their debt to GDP ratio is 2-3 times that of ours. Some of those countries are far worse that those ratios. It is absolutely unsustainable. They know it. Propping up Greece only bought the elitist time to plan for the New World currency and here in America to pass a bigger police state ready to handle the devastation coming. It will be massive in comparison of 2008. Couple the government debt issues and countries and banks all being intertwined in some form or fashion with the huge quad trillion derivative market that is about to go BUST, it's going to be devastating.

I have been warning everyone I know for two years now. Again, the propping up of Greece bought only time and indebted more countries to the central bankers who basically designed this whole economic situation along with stupid so called "caring" politicians who are bought out by the bankers. Everyone thought I was crazy and my nickname along with another co-worker was "doom and gloom." People are starting to wake up. People are starting to see the light. It's coming.

The stock market will be cut in half and expect 30% plus unemployment. Mass riots, "martial" law, FEMA camps, and civil war are very possible. The government has been slowly planning for all of that too.

[NoOneButPaul]

What I imagine will happen is all hell will break loose in ways we've never seen or imagined and then the world powers will step in and say...

"You can save yourself from this madness if we all just work off the same currency world wide."

And the masses will buy into it because they'll be so filled with fear and wanting to save themselves from the EXTREME temporary pain that they'll say "Yes, please..."
This will be the moment when every liberty loving Ron Paul Revolution foot soldier must stand up and scream "NO!" and explain to all their neighbors, friends, and masses that such a currency will inevitably lead to the same collapse but on an even bigger scale AND that such a currency will result in an eventual loss of our sovereignty and ALL of the rights that come with it.

That will be our moment... we'll have to convince the masses to say no to the world's new currency and we will have the near impossible task of convincing them to let it all burn down (including their own fortunes) so the market can correct itself back to it's proper level.

The pain would be tremendous but it would be only temporary and in the long run we wouldn't lose our currency, our country, or our constitution.

[XTreat]

Gunny explained it like this:



The dollar becomes progressively weaker and oil-producing nations accelerate the pullout from the dollar, the Fed tries raising interest rates to stop the hemorrhaging leading to a total freeze-up of credit whereupon the US Treasury initiates a tsunami of spending hoping to stimulate consumerism but instead creates massive inflation that becomes a death-spiral of inflation and possibly hyperinflation.

OR the freeze-up in credit spurs the Fed to raise rates even more to stimulate lending leading to a deflationary death-spiral, foreclosures skyrocket as wages collapse, the minimum wage becomes an insurmountable hurdle and before Congress can act to lower or eliminate it we see close to 50% unemployment.

IN EITHER CASE

"Just In Time Logistics" dries up and the supermarket shelves go bare. The lack of food causes riots, particularly in urban and dense suburban areas. The National Guard is tasked with bringing in food relief to hungry rioters who in turn clash with the national guard trying desperately to force a larger share of food. Horribleness ensues, and martial law is declared, at which point many of the self-made militia types emerge from their bomb-shelters and engage the forces enforcing the police state and horrificness ensues.

Now all the unused tools of the police state go into effect. NDAA indefinite detention against Americans, targeted assassinations, PATRIOT surveillance with a vengeance, possible drone strikes against "terrorist headquarters" (coordinates collected in the last census) a strike misses and takes out an in-home daycare and people lose their shyt.

With no viable media (or, possibly, internet) with which to express outrage, the anger boils up and boils over into something akin to a real civil war.

America dissolves in bloodshed. The UN proposes a one-world government to restore order in the former United States, and hundreds of thousands of troops from a 50 nation coalition lands.

Worst case scenario.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

Gunny explained it like this:


Horribleness ensues, and martial law is declared, at which point many of the self-made militia types emerge from their bomb-shelters and engage the forces enforcing the police state and horrificness ensues.


I think those types stay put for as long as possible.

I've seen this debated for 5 years now with many people making reasonable arguments for how bad things could get, to varying degrees. Fact is, we just don't know. I think we know LEOs will turn tail and run for the most part, or put their families first. We (I) don't know what happens with the military in such a situation.

Indefinite detention has been struck down by a judge at this point. That doesn't mean it won't happen, but they'd probably rather kill those people than feed them.

What happens to people in prisons? Do they just die in the cages? Or are they set free by those with purpose in return for something?

I dunno. It could all be an ugly mess where what is most important is what is happening on your own street.

[jbauer]

I think it goes down just as Europe is going down. In Europe they are in the process of approving "Euro Bonds" essentially turning Europe into 1 nation instead of members. Then when it becomes iminent that our economy is actually in worse shape then their's they turn towards a "Earth Bond" and we'll essentially end up as a one nation world.

I don't think we voluntarily end up there. We get our hand forced either doing what they say or facing economic absolute collapse. The American people get pissed but sign on to not have the economic collapse some of you suggest. At worst there will be days or weeks of protesting in metro areas.

[jbauer]

I hadn't read the next page. Interesting I'm not the only one sugesting a world currency. The idea isn't unique obviously but I honestly don't see any other alternative.

Long live socialism!!!

[jj-]

So, if there is a US economic collapse as Ron Paul predicts, what would actually happen? How would this affect your day-to-day life?

Depends on the form it takes. If it's hyperinflation, the market will create a currency in a few days (a metal). But the transition process, even if it's no longer than a few days, could be scary. Without money, goods don't move well, including food. I leave the implications to your imagination.

[Xhin]

Thanks everyone. Yeah, that does sound quite a bit worse than what I imagined.

What kind of estimations do we have for a timetable of this?

[jbauer]

Hard to say.

A Europe collapse this summer likley means "strenght" in the US tresuries market. This will give us more time as there will be a demand for dollars due to the lack of demand for euros. However, as Europe goes the world will follow. We send 1/3 of our exports to Europe if they what if they don't need them?

Eventually our debt is going to catch up with us. It coudl happen as soon as tomorow but likely not for a little while longer. We have 103% debt to GDP right now. The highest it got to was 122% during WW2. (when we were legitimatley fighting a war) To put 103% in perspective, Spain carries the same ratio. The ONLY difference between us and Europe is that we have the ability to turn on the printer where as they don't. They have several member nations with several tresuries using the same currency. They can't print without everyone else on board.

With the growing unemployed, growing governement welfare and shrinking (not to the euro) value of the dollar it can't be long. If pressed I think I'd put it at 3-4ish years because I think the fed and governement will take extreme messures to stay in control. But the cats out of the bag now. Its just a mater of time. This is my opinion.

[wrestlingwes_8]

Thanks everyone. Yeah, that does sound quite a bit worse than what I imagined.

What kind of estimations do we have for a timetable of this?

It could happen tomorrow, or it could happen 5 years from now. There are too many factors in play to really be sure. I am by no means a financial expert so I tend to listen to people who have been right in the past. Ron Paul wasn't the only person to predict the housing crisis of 2008, just the only politician to do so. People like Bob Chapman and Gerald Celente are just a couple people that come to mind. They, among others, have predicted that the start of the economic collapse will begin with the failing of the derivatives market. So if you want a timetable, your best bet would be to keep an eye on that. Personally, I would be extremely surprised if they are able to keep this sinking ship afloat for even another year or two. My advice is to stock up NOW on organic, heirloom seeds, a water purifier, guns and ammo, and anything else you feel you would need for survival. Everyone is always talking about gold and silver but you can't eat gold so I really don't think it has much use in a collapse situation. Having a little bit on hand wouldn't hurt for trading purposes if you really needed something but I wouldn't make it a top priority. Having these kinds of things on hand makes you prepared for anything that could happen, not just an economic collapse. It's always better to be safe than sorry.

[Pericles]

Hard to predict. Almost certainly some level of persistent austerity to which most of us are unaccustomed. Probably a more localized economy, with a large black market component, including unofficial currency. Almost certain to impact the rest of the world. Plenty of civil disorder and crime. An inept government trying to collect taxes, enforce order, and establish a new fiat currency with mixed results.

That is the way I see it, plus the Freikorps concept come to the USA.

[Shredmonster]

It will be unprecedented that is why nobody knows how this will play out. There will be a global depression as all countries are tied to one another economically now.

People here in the US - most still have their heads buried though some are waking up. But most are unprepared and many will probably die.

Yes the government has been planning for social unrest since the 1980's - '85 is what I recently read. Hard to believe they have gone as far as FEMA camps and drones.
They are militarizing local law enforcement. Plus they now have other agencies like the TSA and their Viper teams. And hiring private guys like Blackwater.

I think they will eventually steal our retirement savings. I am an avid reader of history. What is going on is nothing new with the exception that this time it will be global. All governments fight to the death as history shows and I have no doubt you will see marshall law.

When will this happen ? It is starting now as a slow grind and it will happen very fast at some point.

What is going on now is that the central banks are printing and printing. It is the only way to keep the system going as productivity and GDP cannot grow enough to eliminate the massive debt that has already been incurred.

After studying the situation it looks like there will probably be some black swan event that will cause bank runs. Once the bank runs start we will collapse as history shows hyperinflation is caused by loss of confidence in currency.

There will be much pain. There will be civil unrest. The government will turn against the people this much you can be sure of. They already are. Governments are truly evil and they will do anything they can to stay in power. Anything.

Logic tells me it may stop when the government can't afford to pay the military and law enforcement. A reset is needed. A barter society may exist for a while. Grocery stores will be out of food, gas stations will have no gas, gangs will come for food and whatever else they can find. It will be very ugly for a while.

Maybe we come back full circle to the views of the founding fathers again. However the nature of man never changes and history will repeat itself.

I will add nobody can stop this. The pieces are all in place. A guy like Ron Paul would probably delay this for 10 maybe 20 years with his policies. But one man cannot change all of this. Manufacturing has already left the country. The debts are to the tune of 1.4 quadrillion and that is just toxic derivatives not including sovereign debts and future liabilities.
One man cannot change a corrupt congress, senate, corporate and banking structure. Corruption has become a cancer and a reset is needed to flush it out. And that takes much much pain and suffering as many do deserve it as they have not been vigilant for freedom.

[sparebulb]

I have no doubt you will see marshall law.

Marshall law?

http://kellyozley.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/cowboy2.jpg

[jbauer]

Some here are over dramatizing this. There will be civil unrest but it will be days maybe weeks. It won’t be years or decades and it will likely happen in urban areas only.

After everything goes south, people are still going to need to eat, drink, socialize get sick etc. Life will go on. This is why I think we're headed toward a global government/monetary system. We will be threatened with "the end of the world" and will choose socialism and all the bad things that come with it rather then give up our starbucks.

I think you'd be much better prepared knowing how to do things to make yourself relevant rather then stockpiling years and years of food and fuel.

Again, just my 2 cents

[sevin]

Everyone assumes there will eventually be a world-wide currency, but I'm not so sure. I know a lot of power brokers have talked about it, but I wonder whether they can make it happen. Just look at what a disaster the Euro is. And they want to do that on a global scale? I dunno.

[Xhin]

There will be a worldwide currency once humans occupy other planets.

[Brooklyn Red Leg]

How will it be? Not sure for the rest of you, but as I'm already on the bottom (homeless) it will probably be the tidal wave that obliterates my hometown (Tampa). I have no doubt that the US Army will come rolling through the streets and the cops will come round up anyone and everyone not hunkered down. I expect the gangbangers and street scum will try 'fightin da man', leading to alot more people getting blown to kingdom come. Question is whether they government starts deploying large-scale offensive weapons (Predator Drones with cluster bombs and/or Hellfire missiles) as well as cordoning off cities. I can imagine that if you get caught behind lines in the Downtown Containment Zone, you're life expectancy will be low.

In all honesty, my friends (some of whom are my fellow homeless) are planning on melting back into the wilderness. Getting the fuck out of cities will be Priority #1 in the immediate future of the collapse. Worrying about what comes next will depend on if you're still breathing or a grease smear on the road.

I would seriously suggest people give thought to having a Bug-Out Bag.

[jj-]

Everyone assumes there will eventually be a world-wide currency, but I'm not so sure.

I believe the opposite. A metal will replace the dollar.

[John F Kennedy III]

I am done entertaining your stupidity

I've proved time and time again in numerous threads that you are nothing but a whore for establishment talking points. You do nothing but quote and site government websites; they are KNOWN LIARS YOU F*****G IDIOT. YOU are a perfect example with what is wrong with this country. Seriously, go play out in moving traffic or something.

Welcome to my ignore list you POS

This.

And they still won't fucking ban him.

[John F Kennedy III]

Can you provide any links to support that?

Seems that the life expectancy actually rose during the Great Depression:
http://phys.org/news173371667.html


http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/science/2011/03/great-depression-had-little-effect-on-death-rates/


US Population by Year (year, population, population change, and percent change):
http://www.npg.org/facts/us_historical_pops.htm

ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS?

I was right when I said you would deny the holocaust if given the chance. I should have said a holocaust, if I had I would be 100% right.

It is truly disgusting that you are allowed to remain a member on this board.

[wrestlingwes_8]

This.

And they still won't fucking ban him.

In my opinion, his correct use of grammar and sentence structure is the only difference between him and Fire11

[John F Kennedy III]

In my opinion, his correct use of grammar and sentence structure is the only difference between him and Fire11

Zippy is a million times worse than Fire11, IMO. To me Fire11 is entertaining. But yes, they are both OBVIOUS trolls.

[UWDude]

Some here are over dramatizing this. There will be civil unrest but it will be days maybe weeks. It won’t be years or decades and it will likely happen in urban areas only.

I think you'd be much better prepared knowing how to do things to make yourself relevant rather then stockpiling years and years of food and fuel.


I think it will be the opposite. The civil unrest will last for decades. It will start with the Mexican drug war seeping over the border. For years, inner cities will rot as violence becomes truly terrifying, and as cartels gain the upper hand in the south west. Their rise in power will threaten the control of black gangs, so war will break out between black gangs and Mexican gangs. That's when white people, upset "the coloreds" are ruining "their country" will take up race war, and join the fray, and essentially, all southwestern and southeastern states will be embroiled in an ever-growing sectarian conflict, which will lead to ghettoization and true territorial turf wars. Army interference will be for show at best, because of the divided loyalties of the soldiers would make it as impotent as the Mexican army is in it's drug war. Same with all the three-letter agencies, which will experience power-struggles within. After-all, many times it is arguing how to deal with enemies that causes the most severe factionalization of movements and agencies.

And this is all happening because the bottom of the barrel is usually where the most scraping happens.

While this is happening, food prices will of course skyrocket, and any natural disaster would be a disaster, because any aid would first be funneled through the drug/warlords. Also, contested areas, which are some of the most agriculturally productive because of their mutliple growing seasons, will have a greater risks to transportation, demanding greater pay, as well as low level corruption and road-blocks. Secondly, cheap, illegal immigrant labor will not be as readily available, as the U.S and the dollar loses its lustre.


In all honesty, my friends (some of whom are my fellow homeless) are planning on melting back into the wilderness.

A lot of people are going to have this idea, and the wilderness will not be any more friendly because of it.

[sevin]

ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS?

I was right when I said you would deny the holocaust if given the chance. I should have said a holocaust, if I had I would be 100% right.

It is truly disgusting that you are allowed to remain a member on this board.

I don't really mind Zippy. I don't agree with him on everything, but he balances out the utter hysteria I sometimes see on this forum. Just put him on your ignore list.

[Brooklyn Red Leg]

A lot of people are going to have this idea, and the wilderness will not be any more friendly because of it.

Sadly too true. I think part of the key might lay in mobility or at least a well defended area. Either one can be beneficial. I think anyone who stays inside the cities when the end comes is painting a bullseye on their forehead.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

I don't really mind Zippy. I don't agree with him on everything, but he balances out the utter hysteria I sometimes see on this forum. Just put him on your ignore list.


Not to mention, people show up here all the time who are new, and it likely helps for them to see those exchanges. If this forum were one big closed off lovefest, no one would learn anything. I send people here to learn things. It is from there that their support of Dr. Paul starts.