Los Angeles to become largest U.S. city to ban plastic bags

[Danke]

http://news.yahoo.com/los-angeles-become-largest-u-city-ban-plastic-225606630.html

(Reuters) - The Los Angeles City Council voted on Wednesday to ban the use of plastic bags in grocery stores, setting the stage to become the largest American city to date to implement such a measure.

The 13-1 vote kicks off a process that will include a four-month environmental review, a second vote to formally adopt an ordinance, and a six-month grace period for the roughly 7,500 grocers within the limits of the second-largest U.S. city.

Smaller grocers will have 12 months to phase out the bags.

"It's great for the environment, great for the future, and great for our beaches and our ocean," Council member Ed Reyes said in a video posted on his website. "It's a win for everybody."

An estimated 2.3 billion single-use plastic carryout bags are used in Los Angeles each year, according to environmental nonprofit Heal the Bay, which supported the ban.

The measure also imposes a 10-cent charge on the use of paper bags one year after the plastic bag ban takes effect.

Some 45 other California cities have already banned the use of plastic bags by grocery stores.

[ShaneEnochs]

I really, really like plastic bags.

[moostraks]

Ouch 10 cents per paper bag in my family would add up. Will be interesting to see the increase from illnesses of a food born nature from people who don't rewash the bags they are using for their groceries.

[Xhin]

I'm glad I don't live in LA.

[slamhead]

What are they going to use to pick up their dog shit with now?

[Demigod]

You can use cloth bags They are better than both paper and plastic.

[Xhin]

Yeah, but you either have to pay through the nose for them or bring loads of textile bags with you into the grocery store.

[Demigod]

Yeah, but you either have to pay through the nose for them or bring loads of textile bags with you into the grocery store.

You can put each in a jacket or coat pocket or in a backpack they are not that big,2 or 3 would be enough for shopping.

[angelatc]

You can put each in a jacket or coat pocket or in a backpack they are not that big,2 or 3 would be enough for shopping.

You don't shop like I do. I'd drive out of the city, or start ordering stuff online. I don't want to bring my own bags to the grocery store.

Assuming the .10 per bag fee goes to the city? Yeah, that's a total win for everybody. /snark

[specsaregood]

You can put each in a jacket or coat pocket or in a backpack they are not that big,2 or 3 would be enough for shopping.

Not shopping for an entire family are ya? I bring 5 or 6 of my own bags and its still not enough some times.

[angelatc]

Not shopping for an entire family are ya? I bring 5 or 6 of my own bags and its still not enough some times.

EIther that or he's European. They tend to shop daily as opposed to weekly.

I can assume they're going to eventually do this in all of America, though. Once the liberals get started, they never, ever stop.

[slamhead]

I see a market for collapsible shopping carts much like ambulance gurneys you can slide into the back of your SUV.

[soulcyon]

Not gonna lie, I kinda like this ban of plastic bags xD

edit: personally, I've been using the stop&shop "green bags" for the last couple years, they costed $1 when I first bought them and you can reuse them as long as you want.

Just don't break them :P

I do agree with the sentiment that government shouldn't be banning sales/products etcetc... but I guess I can let plastic bags slide ;)

[specsaregood]

//

[Working Poor]

Maybe someone will start making biodegradable hemp plastic bags:D

[sailingaway]

http://news.yahoo.com/los-angeles-become-largest-u-city-ban-plastic-225606630.html

(Reuters) - The Los Angeles City Council voted on Wednesday to ban the use of plastic bags in grocery stores, setting the stage to become the largest American city to date to implement such a measure.

The 13-1 vote kicks off a process that will include a four-month environmental review, a second vote to formally adopt an ordinance, and a six-month grace period for the roughly 7,500 grocers within the limits of the second-largest U.S. city.

Smaller grocers will have 12 months to phase out the bags.

"It's great for the environment, great for the future, and great for our beaches and our ocean," Council member Ed Reyes said in a video posted on his website. "It's a win for everybody."

An estimated 2.3 billion single-use plastic carryout bags are used in Los Angeles each year, according to environmental nonprofit Heal the Bay, which supported the ban.

The measure also imposes a 10-cent charge on the use of paper bags one year after the plastic bag ban takes effect.

Some 45 other California cities have already banned the use of plastic bags by grocery stores.

That is a tax increase by another name. I just read that someone died from a disease traced to those 'reusable' grocery bags not being as sanitary. Oh, these unintended consequences. Well, I haven't sent my ballot in yet, I'll see if any of the tools who voted for this can be voted against this year.

[brandon]

I save my plastic bags to pick up dog poop in. Wouldn't be fun to do that with paper.

[specsaregood]

I save my plastic bags to pick up dog poop in. Wouldn't be fun to do that with paper.

i've found that most of those cheapie bags have little holes in them and don't work well for poop.

alternatively, you can buy a roll of a few hundred scented 1 gallon bags for just a couple bucks, no holes.

[Bruno]

Maybe someone will start making biodegradable hemp plastic bags:D

I have been waiting for that for about 15 years since I first started learning about hemp plastics.

My idea is that the hemp plastic bags could be combined with the existing technology that times the product to biodegrade after a set period of sun exposure, which would further reduce polution.

[sailingaway]

You can put each in a jacket or coat pocket or in a backpack they are not that big,2 or 3 would be enough for shopping.

Uh, no.

[Acala]

If landfills and solid waste hauling were all private, as they should be, chances are they would refuse to haul plastic bags because they are a huge nuisance blowing out of the trucks and at the landfill and so the "ban" would come about through market action. As it is now, as is so often the case, the harmful conduct arises because the actors are shilded from the cost by government.

[ShaneEnochs]

EIther that or he's European. They tend to shop daily as opposed to weekly.

Makes sense. There's much more distance between homesteads and stores in the US. We only go shopping about once every two weeks. We buy about $100-$150 in groceries (some of which we give to our local food bank). Ten of those bags wouldn't carry the food we buy.

[Demigod]

Hell, who has time for that.

I first ran into this ban, when I lived on a small island. It made sense there, because of lack of land, marine park, etc. Course, they also had a huge herd of goats at the dumpsite that helped hasten the decomposition of nearly everything thrown in the trash -- they'd eat paper bags but don't think they were hip to plastic.

I have a market on the street level of my apartment building, every neighborhood actually has at least one so I buy most of the stuff from there.I go once a week to the supermarket for things like detergents which are much cheaper and the supermarket is just 10 min walk from my apartment.I go to the bazaar for vegetables on the way back from work.


It does not take a lot of time but in the USA you simply have a much different infrastructure .Here even supermarket chains tend to go for more smaller local stores than build mega stores.

[oyarde]

Total fail .LA should ban welfare , not plastic bags . tHAT PLACE WOULD BE LIKE HELL , YOU HAFTA START STICKING YOUR GROCERIES IN YOUR POCKETS...

[Lishy]

It's only a city law, and if I was in LA, I would actually support this because I'm tired of liter.

[Danke]

http://www.apmbags.com/bagmyths

http://www.greenbiz.com/blog/2011/12/22/defense-plastic-bag

[JK/SEA]

I keep 2-4 of those produce type boxes in my car. They're heavy duty, and have hand holes in the ends. I tell the checker, bag boy/girl to just put the items back in the cart after ringing up, and fill my boxes up myself at the car. no muss no fuss.

[Schifference]

I remember reading that most cities don't put garbage in landfills anymore. I also read that from an environmental standpoint producing paper bags was more detrimental than plastic. Furthermore plastic is made from petroleum and when burned in an incinerator at the correct temperature emits nothing harmful and is a good fuel source for garbage to electricity generating plants.

[AGRP]

When are they going to vote to ban the war on drugs? Are they not concerned about the toll dead bodies and unnecessary incarceration rates takes on the environment?

[oyarde]

When are they going to vote to ban the war on drugs? Are they not concerned about the toll dead bodies and unnecessary incarceration rates takes on the environment? Agreed

[oyarde]

Ban welfare , the war on drugs and everyone can have whatever bag they want .

[brandon]

Are Californians going to start getting their weed in paper bags too?

[angelatc]

Makes sense. There's much more distance between homesteads and stores in the US. We only go shopping about once every two weeks. We buy about $100-$150 in groceries (some of which we give to our local food bank). Ten of those bags wouldn't carry the food we buy.

You know what will happen here? Shopping cart theft will skyrocket at stores where a significant percentage of the people can walk to the store.

I just abhor authority. If I lived in LA, I'd buy small plastic garbage bags and make them use them as my grocery bags. And if I had to use those horrid cheap chinese tote things, I'd be damned sure the message on the side was as offensive as I could bear.

[AGRP]

Think about the unnecessary toll the war on drugs takes on the environment. It affects low income people who probably dont have a car or money to waste on consumer goods or food. Think of all of the time they commute by foot. They produce much less waste than their big pharma competitors. They are walking environmentalists.

Then out of the blue they are abducted by fuel guzzling Crown Vics or Chargers and transported from prison to prison in fuel guzzling econolines. Then they are placed in a big box stores where they become slaves to and for banks and corporations. They consume a lot more food and produce a lot more waste compared to when they werent incarcerated.

[angelatc]

That is a tax increase by another name. I just read that someone died from a disease traced to those 'reusable' grocery bags not being as sanitary. Oh, these unintended consequences. Well, I haven't sent my ballot in yet, I'll see if any of the tools who voted for this can be voted against this year.

I didn't see that, but I almost always have meat that leaks into them. I already have enough laundry to do, thanks, and I can imagine how bad that sucker will smell if I toss it on the pile and don't get to it for a day or two.

[angelatc]

i've found that most of those cheapie bags have little holes in them and don't work well for poop.

alternatively, you can buy a roll of a few hundred scented 1 gallon bags for just a couple bucks, no holes.

Perfect for groceries too!

[truthspeaker]

The whole idea of banning these bags is completely anti-liberty.

[bolil]

I wonder if we will see a corresponding increase in pregnancy rates.... :eek:

[dannno]

What are they going to use to pick up their dog shit with now?

Wow, good point, the beaches are going to be a MESS after the next big rain!!

[sailingaway]

Perfect for groceries too!

that's a good idea. Those doggy bags come on a roll that would fit in a glove compartment for impromptu grocery shopping. Must pick some up. (A bit small, though...)

[AGRP]

Paper bags are next on the list.

[bolil]

So... what will be left in the hands of the overburdened shopper? Fabric bags... with bar codes? Perhaps there will be TSA agents on hand to assist shoppers in cavity storage.

[Brian4Liberty]

What are they going to use to pick up their dog shit with now?

Going to have to buy them.

[Brian4Liberty]

We already have this ban is several cities, and it's coming soon to many more. What sucks is when you don't pay attention and you end up with an extra charge on your receipt for the bags and they don't even warn you.

Last time I went to the store they literally double bagged two items separately (four bags for two small items, both food items). Kind of ironic considering the ban is coming soon.

[NoPants]

Good to see that everyone in CA has their priorities in order. Who cares if they can pay their bills.

[jbauer]

Don't see the big deal with it. We've not been using plastic bags for quite some time. I ask for my stuff not to be bagged at walmart. I put it in my trunk and carry it in the house.

Now I personally think its none of the governements buisiness to get involved. The stores themselves should enact such rules. Saves them money, saves you money.

Sams Club has been this way as long as we've ever shopped there. Aldi's our new grocery store makes you rent your cart (you get it back if you bring it back). They are a no frills store but significantly cheaper to buy the bulk of our groceries.

[Zippyjuan]

You know what will happen here? Shopping cart theft will skyrocket at stores where a significant percentage of the people can walk to the store.

I just abhor authority. If I lived in LA, I'd buy small plastic garbage bags and make them use them as my grocery bags. And if I had to use those horrid cheap chinese tote things, I'd be damned sure the message on the side was as offensive as I could bear.

People don't realize how much a shopping cart costs- I worked in a grocery store and they were abouit $200 apiece. They have devices on them now which are supposed to lock up the wheels if you try to take them past a certain line (usually around the parking lot and sidewalks) to deter taking them away (though they don't always work). I have been using my own cloth bags for years now (one of the early adoptors!). For me, they are easier to carry and hold a lot more than plastic or paper ones.

[Working Poor]

We already have this ban is several cities, and it's coming soon to many more. What sucks is when you don't pay attention and you end up with an extra charge on your receipt for the bags and they don't even warn you.

Last time I went to the store they literally double bagged two items separately (four bags for two small items, both food items). Kind of ironic considering the ban is coming soon.

I use cloth bags and always get a little discount for it in stores.

[The Free Hornet]

Fast Facts on Plastic Grocery Bags Show They Are an Extremely Resource-Efficient Choice (http://www.plasticbagfacts.org/Main-Menu/Fast-Facts/index.html)


Did you know that a typical plastic bag weighs 4-5 grams and can hold up to 17 pounds—nearly 2,000 times its own weight?


For every seven trucks needed to deliver paper bags, only one truck is needed for the same number of plastic bags, helping to save energy and reduce emissions.


About 65% of Americans reuse their bags for trash disposal. Other common uses include lunch bags and pet pick-up.


Plastic grocery and retail bags make up a tiny fraction (less than 0.5%) of the U.S. municipal solid waste stream.


The production of plastic bags consumes less than 4% of the water needed to make paper bags.


TOP 10 MYTHS ABOUT PLASTIC GROCERY BAGS (http://www.plasticsindustry.org/files/about/fbf/myths%2Bfacts_grocerybags.pdf)


Plastic bags are extraordinarily energy-efficient to manufacture. Less than .05% of a barrel of
oil goes into making all the plastic bags used in the US while 93% - 95% of every barrel of
crude oil is burned for fuel and heating purposes.7 Although they are made from natural gas or
oil, plastic bags actually consume less fossil fuels during their lifetime than do compostable
plastic and paper bags.

They cost $0.005 to $0.02 cents and piss off a tree hugger - what's not to love? Even if I bought the bags myself, $2 worth would cover me for a year. A $1 reusable bag would have to survive about 50 - 200 shopping trips to perform equally as well. If the bags were outlawed, I would simple bring them into the store myself (until that is outlawed).

Also, since so many of the bags are reused to contain trash, the notion that the bannishment of these bags will reduce waste pollution is asinine. Trash haulers are likely looking forward to lighter loads as more of the trash just blows into the ocean.

Will they push reusable trash bags?

[pauljmccain]

Textiles? Uhhhh you mean cloth bags?

[Tod]

I expect the big complaint with plastic grocery sacks is that so many of them end up blowing around, in ditches, in streams, and eventually in the ocean. I hear there is an amazing amount of plastic and junk floating around out there. Thing is, grocery sacks are just one item that is indicative of the trash problem, not the problem itself.

http://www.cookiesound.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/garbage-in-ocean.jpg

I re-use them as garbage bags. Seems like the waste packaging takes about the same as the original package, so the bags work out about perfectly to hold the trash. I almost never buy garbage bags as a result.

[oyarde]

This is America , I will use whatever dang bag,box/sack I want and the world can kiss my ass ! Liberty , I do not care how anyone carries groceries , for all I give a flying crap , you can graft a Kangaroo pouch on your ass ;) , Next subject please.

[oyarde]

First , food police , then bag police ..... wth is wrong with people ?

[oyarde]

My older sister was right ( you have no idea how much I hate to admit that ) , she once said a year or two ago , I will be wandering the halls in my house , saying " morons " and "commies " , no way I am ever telling her I already do it :)

[oyarde]

All of the folks who need help with grocery bag selection , well , your city/state probably needs to help you as well with your tampon & toilet paper selections ... again , wth is wrong withpeople ???

[Muwahid]

Here some stores make you pay for plastic bags, we ended up just buying them once, n storing the bags in a cupboard, then throwing them in the trunk when going to the store and bag ourselves to save a little money. They're reuseable for a long time, and they make good trashbags later for those little garbages, you can get a lot of use out of plastic bags.

Only downside is the annoying litter, I don't see how paper bags would be that much better though.

[John F Kennedy III]

Big Brother always knows best. How dare the LA citizens not voluntarily stop using plastic bags?

[Humanae Libertas]

Good thing the great government of LA is keeping their residents safe from evil plastic bags.


I wouldn't expect anything great coming from the land of the crazies.

[AdelaideGUy]

Plastic bags are banned here in Australia as well, we have to buy these bags. 50c each and reusable, they're also a lot more useful than plastic bags as well.
http://i49.tinypic.com/34y8cur.jpg

[John F Kennedy III]

Plastic bags are banned here in Australia as well, we have to buy these bags. 50c each and reusable, they're also a lot more useful than plastic bags as well.
http://i49.tinypic.com/34y8cur.jpg

Utterly ridiculous. Damn socialism.

[LibertyEagle]

They are doing this crap in Austin too. I imagine because of all the Californians who have moved here and are trying to enact the same big government policies here that ruined California.

[LibertyEagle]

Not gonna lie, I kinda like this ban of plastic bags xD

edit: personally, I've been using the stop&shop "green bags" for the last couple years, they costed $1 when I first bought them and you can reuse them as long as you want.

Just don't break them :P

I do agree with the sentiment that government shouldn't be banning sales/products etcetc... but I guess I can let plastic bags slide ;)

I always thought it was rather stupid to go to plastic bags, because paper bags degrade so very much faster. But, the tree huggers took care of those.

[slamhead]

Good to see that everyone in CA has their priorities in order. Who cares if they can pay their bills.

So true. What am I going to use for matching luggage when the shit hits the fan. At least the "bag" lady on the street will be environmentally safe.

[angelatc]

Don't see the big deal with it. We've not been using plastic bags for quite some time. I ask for my stuff not to be bagged at walmart. I put it in my trunk and carry it in the house.

Now I personally think its none of the governements buisiness to get involved. The stores themselves should enact such rules. Saves them money, saves you money.

Sams Club has been this way as long as we've ever shopped there. Aldi's our new grocery store makes you rent your cart (you get it back if you bring it back). They are a no frills store but significantly cheaper to buy the bulk of our groceries.

No, this isn't why stores should enact such rules. This is why some stores should enact such rules. I don't shop at Aldi and Sam's Club because I don't want to box or bag my own groceries. You don't mind, but I prefer the service. That's how we avoid a one-size-fits-all model that doesn't actually for anybody.

[angelatc]

Big Brother always knows best. How dare the LA citizens not voluntarily stop using plastic bags?

Especially when they can be stimulating the economy by buying those Chinese totes that come apart every few months so you need to replace them.

[angelatc]

People don't realize how much a shopping cart costs- I worked in a grocery store and they were abouit $200 apiece. They have devices on them now which are supposed to lock up the wheels if you try to take them past a certain line (usually around the parking lot and sidewalks) to deter taking them away (though they don't always work). I have been using my own cloth bags for years now (one of the early adoptors!). For me, they are easier to carry and hold a lot more than plastic or paper ones.

But it's your choice. I tried the cloth things, and I hate them. They don't stay clean, the handles break, the kids lose them, yada yada yada. I therefore choose differently.

The fact that a majority of grocery shoppers still do not bring their own bags indicates that the market isn't sold on the concept yet, either. So what you just said is that you don't care if government takes away yet another right, because it doesn't affect you.

This is just another example of government telling business (and people) how they must behave. I don't like it - leave people the hell alone already.

[angelatc]

They cost $0.005 to $0.02 cents and piss off a tree hugger - what's not to love? Even if I bought the bags myself, $2 worth would cover me for a year. A $1 reusable bag would have to survive about 50 - 200 shopping trips to perform equally as well. If the bags were outlawed, I would simple bring them into the store myself (until that is outlawed).


I'd take extras, and sell them to fellow shoppers in the aisles.

I really hate what this country is turning into.

[jbauer]

Thats what I said. Stores should enact the rules. They obviously all wont and people will make their choices as to where they'd like to shop. I get what you're saying though, you like your plastic bags. This is however, IS exactly how governement should opperate. The federal government did not come in and mandate this. The cities through their own locally elected officials decided this was a priority (although it seems silly to me, isn't there bigger issues??) If the people of LA don't want this rule they will call their elected officials, they will stop donating, they will vote for someone pro-plastic bag.

Liberty doesn't mean lawlessness to me. It means that we govern ourselves as our constituion says. Obviously plastic bags aren't delegated to the Federal Government so they have no say. They also aren't delegated to the state government so they have no say. That leaves it to the local government. One that is easily shaped and significantly more responsive to the desire and will of the local people. The local government sees plastic bags as an issue. Maybe they're blowing away and clogging drains? Or getting into the ocean? Who knows what the reason is. But since it's a local issue the people are free to vote for whomever they want. They're also free to move to a place that better suites their needs whenver they want.




No, this isn't why stores should enact such rules. This is why some stores should enact such rules. I don't shop at Aldi and Sam's Club because I don't want to box or bag my own groceries. You don't mind, but I prefer the service. That's how we avoid a one-size-fits-all model that doesn't actually for anybody.

[angelatc]

Thats what I said. Stores should enact the rules. They obviously all wont and people will make their choices as to where they'd like to shop. I get what you're saying though, you like your plastic bags. This is however, IS exactly how governement should opperate. The federal government did not come in and mandate this. The cities through their own locally elected officials decided this was a priority (although it seems silly to me, isn't there bigger issues??) If the people of LA don't want this rule they will call their elected officials, they will stop donating, they will vote for someone pro-plastic bag.

Liberty doesn't mean lawlessness to me. It means that we govern ourselves as our constituion says. Obviously plastic bags aren't delegated to the Federal Government so they have no say. They also aren't delegated to the state government so they have no say. That leaves it to the local government. One that is easily shaped and significantly more responsive to the desire and will of the local people. The local government sees plastic bags as an issue. Maybe they're blowing away and clogging drains? Or getting into the ocean? Who knows what the reason is. But since it's a local issue the people are free to vote for whomever they want. They're also free to move to a place that better suites their needs whenver they want.

I do agree that the local governments do have the right to do this, but I hate that fact that so many people are content to allow them to make even the most mundane decisions on behalf of the vocal minority.

Maybe it is a majority. I can easily see people saying "Oh yes, even though I prefer plastic bags, this is obviously for the greater good. I should have stopped using them long ago, so I am glad someone came along and made me behave properly."

That's the real headbanger.

[soulcyon]

I always thought it was rather stupid to go to plastic bags, because paper bags degrade so very much faster. But, the tree huggers took care of those.I rarely use paperbags, mostly straw/cloth bags that are quiet sturdy. They last for years, but of course it's hard to reuse them for multiple purposes.
I don't have a dog, so I don't have to worry about teh poop nonsense, although I imagine there is a better solution than plastic bags.

I wish there was a good way to recycle plastic bags though

[pcosmar]

I wish there was a good way to recycle plastic bags though
:confused:
http://agoosa.com/?p=849
http://www.mommyperks.com/vip/?p=14042

There are,, many in fact. That is just one of them.

and actually,, using as a poop bag is reuse.. There are many uses.
Reuse=Recycle

[oyarde]

I rarely use paperbags, mostly straw/cloth bags that are quiet sturdy. They last for years, but of course it's hard to reuse them for multiple purposes.
I don't have a dog, so I don't have to worry about teh poop nonsense, although I imagine there is a better solution than plastic bags.

I wish there was a good way to recycle plastic bags though I use them as trash bags and then burn them , same thing I did with the paper sacks .

[LibertyRevolution]

Paper bags suck, they rip and they aint got handles. Plastic bags are far superior..
Cloth bags get dirty and I don't want to have to wash bags, they also are not free.

I'm with George Carlin on this one.. why we are here, plastic!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBRquiS1pis