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downunder
05-24-2012, 03:14 AM
Who or what is the establishment?

Who is Ron Paul up against exactly when people refer to establishment candidates? I hear this all the time.. and it's frustrating how no one ever expands on this. Who is the establishment? What does it represent ?

It's become an absolute twilight zone, complete insanity over the past few years the way the media spins it. Ron Paul has completely exposed the media -- in my view he is destroying it, simply by telling the truth. It doesn't matter if it's left or right leaning news organizations, it's the same shit.

If you drill into the owners of the MSM corporations there is a common pattern:
State Street Corporation, Vanguard Group, BlackRock and FMR (Fidelity).

Seriously try it, look at the majority share holder for ANY major corporation (including all the major banks).

Is this the establishment?

tod evans
05-24-2012, 03:18 AM
From a child of the '60's perspective "the establishment" is those who wield the power.....

Money = power....

Those who fight to maintain the power/money balance are "the establishment".

LibertyEagle
05-24-2012, 03:59 AM
It's not that, Tod. There is nothing wrong with being successful and having money. Nothing wrong at all. The problem is with those who want to use the force of government to get special favor for themselves.

There is something more than that, but I'm too tired to think of a succinct definition. Sorry. Cowlesy would be a good one to tell you.

lakefx
05-24-2012, 07:59 AM
The Establishment can be given a single name if you wanted to...'Neoconservative' or two if you want to be even more inclusive "Corporatists" (not to be confused with capitalism)

Most Dems and Reps believe in these philosophies: Or even if they don't believe in them, these are their outward actions:

Military Adventurism which:
Expands the millitary-industrial complex
which creates jobs, and expands wealth for corporations that produce weapons, defense systems. etc.
which makes corporations like GE, very powerful
GE owns many media outlets.
which helps circulate the message that War is good for the economy, good for security, and good for humanity. Or at least fails to report that the opposite of all are the truth.

Increases our footprint on the Earth.
So we can influence the cost and production of raw materials in our favor
Influence policy of other nation's regimes to secure our own interests
At the expense of other nations, cultures, religions.

Ultimately moves forward the Judeo-Christian western mindset that we are in for an epic battle one day with Eastern religions for world supremacy.
So that we have an upper hand during the apocalypse.
/sad but true.


Social programs for Many.
So that many individuals are dependent on the state
So that calls for responsibility, freedom, or austerity are seen as a direct threat to their way of life.
So that they will reject fiscal responsibility or austerity, and always vote with their paychecks from the government, and keep them in power.
'Don't tax me, bro'
'But don't cut my unemployment benefits/SS/Medicare/Section 9/WIC/Welfare/Food stamps/free schools/grants/contracts/wages/college loans either'

Judeo-Christian Moral justice
Official, unofficial religions to keep out threats from atheists and non western religions. The idea being that these undermine Military Adventurism or limit the power of the state to be moral judge, rather than allowing religion itself to be that judge.

Control of Money
So that government is perceived as an economic stimulator or rescue system
So that people will always look at government as our source of wealth, and depend on it's power to control money
So that we will give it lots of wiggle room to "regulate" corporations, or allow corporations to lobby to create 'Jobs'
To do this we print money
and hand it over to banks for 'our own good'
or give it to GE and other mega corps to do pet projects, military projects, or reinvestment.

Inflation Taxation
The conservatives can provide an err of 'conservatism' by not increasing taxes.
But not reducing government either
printing new money=inflation
People pay more for goods, the next generation receives the bill.

Benefit themselves.
Elected government jobs are seen as money bonanzas. Even if the state pays you little, there's a never ending supply
of corporations waiting to be you dinner,
give you a discount on a car, or put one of your side companies you own to work under contract.




The end result of this is that money ends up where it isn't needed. We stop producing goods and just play with money. Instead of saving money, we must all invest it or end up behind. We must all take risks on wall street in order to maintain happiness. The wealth gap grows. Booms and busts get more and more frequent. Corporations and government become blurred one entity. Government barrows too much, spends too much, prints too much. And this system depends on sheep who, if they know it's happening, can't do anything about it. If they don't know its happening, they would violently defend it from any perceived threat, and are willing to sacrifice their freedoms to keep it that way.

The good/bad news is, that this is unsustainable. Whether we wake everyone and covert their minds to what is happening and solve it, or it all fails miserably.

Xhin
05-24-2012, 08:10 AM
+rep, lakefx.

tl;dr Statism? :P

Sola_Fide
05-24-2012, 08:17 AM
http://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/reptilian.jpg

V3n
05-24-2012, 08:47 AM
Entrenched lifelong career politicians who are completely self-serving, they don't care about the people they're supposed to represent, the laws they're supposed to follow, or the oaths they have taken. All they care about is themselves, retaining their own power, and where they can get their next payoff.

As they age they choose a protege to continue the cycle.


edit: upon further thought, I'm thinking there is not just ONE establishment - you would have a few, the Military Establishment, the Media Establishment, etc.. I think I was describing the Political Establishment, but there would be more...

LibertyInJeopardy
05-24-2012, 08:47 AM
In my thinking, the establishment are those who use force and act dishonorably to win, expand, and keep their power and benefits.

Non-establishment power will engage in a battle of ideas and behave honorably, even if they may lose.

libertygrl
05-24-2012, 09:02 AM
You want to know the real truth? Get this book and tell spread the word. I'm in the middle of it now and it is utterly shocking. And based on what is happening today,I didn't think I could be shocked anymore. Our whole system has been compromised and no one is doing a single thing about it.

You've got to read this whistleblower's story. This lady has put her life on the line for the American people. And she wasn't even born here! But she believed in what America stood for. She's lived through tyranny and now she sees that it is happening here. She's got more guts than most men. You will be blown away by her story. You think Ron Paul is an amazing American hero? You aint seen nothing yet! Get this book while you still can. She had to publish it herself because no one else would.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPo1l292P1E&feature=player_embedded


In this startling new memoir, Sibel Edmonds—the most classified woman in U.S. history—takes us on a surreal journey that begins with the secretive FBI and down the dark halls of a feckless Congress to a stonewalling judiciary and finally, to the national security whistleblowers movement she spearheaded. Having lived under Middle East dictatorships, Edmonds knows firsthand what can happen when government is allowed to operate in secret. Hers is a sobering perspective that combines painful experience with a rallying cry for the public’s right to know and to hold the lawbreakers accountable. With U.S. citizens increasingly stripped of their rights in a calibrated media blackout, Edmonds’ story is a wake-up call for all Americans who, willingly or unwillingly, traded liberty for illusive security in the wake of 9/11. http://www.classifiedwoman.com/

http://www.amazon.com/Classified-Woman-The-Sibel-Edmonds-Story/dp/0615602223/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1337871486&sr=8-1

FSP-Rebel
05-24-2012, 09:24 AM
Ok, I'll bite..
http://i46.tinypic.com/ftcz28.jpg

TheGrinch
05-24-2012, 09:29 AM
Establsihment can mean a lot of things, and is generally synonymous with the "status quo".... In fact, even people outside of this movement refer to the politicians in power as the "establishment"... Any definition beyond that, however, is an arbitrary trait of how the "establishment" acts, but all it is in itself is the status quo, the ones who've seized power.

Verrater
05-24-2012, 09:31 AM
I'd say neoconservatives and/or corporatists is/are about the best and most concise explanation(s).

ShaneEnochs
05-24-2012, 09:31 AM
It's them. They and every other plural pronouns are the establishment.

In all seriousness though, I think of the establishment as those who have something to lose if the country goes in a better direction than it's going right now, and will fight to maintain the status quo.

Occam's Banana
05-24-2012, 09:38 AM
Who or what is the establishment?

Who is the establishment? That's easy ... THEY are the establishment! HTH. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif;)

ETA: Gaaah! I see ShaneEnochs beat me to it! http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif @ SE.

FindLiberty
05-24-2012, 09:44 AM
Shhh,

"Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men's views confided to me
privately. Some of the biggest men in the U.S., in the field of commerce and
manufacturing, are afraid of somebody, are afraid of something. They know that
there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so
interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above
their breath when they speak in condemnation of it."

Woodrow Wilson - In The New Freedom (1913)

ShaneEnochs
05-24-2012, 09:44 AM
Who is the establishment? That's easy ... THEY are the establishment! HTH. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif;)

ETA: Gaaah! I see ShaneEnochs beat me to it! http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif @ SE.

Wasn't me. They did it. Bwahahaha.

Delivered4000
05-24-2012, 09:54 AM
The established are those who are in control of most of government. They are a conglomerate of corporations, lobbyists, and politicians, who want to conserve the status quo because it is what gives them most profit. This comes at the expense of people like you and me, because they profit from our tax money and the inflation. They get the newly created money in the form of spending and bailouts, while my money and yours loses its value.

libertygrl
05-24-2012, 10:44 AM
You want to know the real truth? Get this book and tell spread the word. I'm in the middle of it now and it is utterly shocking. And based on what is happening today,I didn't think I could be shocked anymore. Our whole system has been compromised and no one is doing a single thing about it.

You've got to read this whistleblower's story. This lady has put her life on the line for the American people. And she wasn't even born here! But she believed in what America stood for. She's lived through tyranny and now she sees that it is happening here. She's got more guts than most men. You will be blown away by her story. You think Ron Paul is an amazing American hero? You aint seen nothing yet! Get this book while you still can. She had to publish it herself because no one else would.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPo1l292P1E&feature=player_embedded


In this startling new memoir, Sibel Edmonds—the most classified woman in U.S. history—takes us on a surreal journey that begins with the secretive FBI and down the dark halls of a feckless Congress to a stonewalling judiciary and finally, to the national security whistleblowers movement she spearheaded. Having lived under Middle East dictatorships, Edmonds knows firsthand what can happen when government is allowed to operate in secret. Hers is a sobering perspective that combines painful experience with a rallying cry for the public’s right to know and to hold the lawbreakers accountable. With U.S. citizens increasingly stripped of their rights in a calibrated media blackout, Edmonds’ story is a wake-up call for all Americans who, willingly or unwillingly, traded liberty for illusive security in the wake of 9/11. http://www.classifiedwoman.com/

http://www.amazon.com/Classified-Woman-The-Sibel-Edmonds-Story/dp/0615602223/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1337871486&sr=8-1

Wow, completely glossed over my post about the Establishment. Nevermind. Nothing to see here. :rolleyes:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g04aCp3ej-I

Harry96
05-24-2012, 12:33 PM
Funny, because I'm writing a book about this.

My short definition is the establishment is a group of people who deliberately use government to harm others and/or give themselves things they wouldn't be able to get in the marketplace, through voluntary exchange (artificially inflate their incomes and restricting competition by raising prices through government-backed cartels, monopolies, "regulations," product bans, forcing people to buy their products, etc.; waging wars; legal counterfeiting through a central bank; etc.)

This two-hour interview with Joel Skousen is well worth watching for anyone interested in these topics; he discusses, among other things, what he calls the control system, which he believes has four levels:

Part one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5YC0t75yLE

Part two:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ0suOlFoOI&feature=related

LibertyEagle
05-24-2012, 12:45 PM
I'd say neoconservatives and/or corporatists is/are about the best and most concise explanation(s).

Neoconservatives are only one faction. There are more.

twomp
05-24-2012, 12:52 PM
Instead of being vague, I'd go a step further and add everyone who voted for NDAA. I honestly feel no honest American who grew up learning about the Constitution would vote away another Americans right to due process. Then I'll add Karl Rove, The Koch brothers, The Bush family, The Clinton family, Grover Norquist, George Soros, Roger Ailes, Rubert Murdoch? I don't know much about George Soros because I loathe Glen Beck and Beck seemed to be the one that had a war on Soros. I guess you can add all the radio guys too? Hannity, Limbaugh, Beck, Levin. Man there is so much to add. I would also suspect there is some sort of hierarchy as well? Not all establishment are created equal you know. Someone should make a flow chart lol.... Oh also can't forget the bankers. Lloyd Blankfein (CEO Goldman Sachs), Jamie Dimon (CEO J.P Morgan, Board member of the New York Federal Reserve), Timothy Geitner (U.S. Treasury), Larry Summers (Goldman Sachs).... Man it's a big list.

Brian4Liberty
05-24-2012, 01:17 PM
Who or what is the establishment?


"Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Media-Government Complex."

mosquitobite
05-24-2012, 01:29 PM
Instead of being vague, I'd go a step further and add everyone who voted for NDAA. I honestly feel no honest American who grew up learning about the Constitution would vote away another Americans right to due process.

Yep. If the men/women who voted for NDAA aren't establishment, they're certainly getting paid or bribed by them.

My take on "the establishment" is the CFR or Bilderburg Group.

Or those who get the invite to Bohemian Grove :D

QuickZ06
05-24-2012, 01:46 PM
You want to know the real truth? Get this book and tell spread the word. I'm in the middle of it now and it is utterly shocking. And based on what is happening today,I didn't think I could be shocked anymore. Our whole system has been compromised and no one is doing a single thing about it.

You've got to read this whistleblower's story. This lady has put her life on the line for the American people. And she wasn't even born here! But she believed in what America stood for. She's lived through tyranny and now she sees that it is happening here. She's got more guts than most men. You will be blown away by her story. You think Ron Paul is an amazing American hero? You aint seen nothing yet! Get this book while you still can. She had to publish it herself because no one else would.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPo1l292P1E&feature=player_embedded


In this startling new memoir, Sibel Edmonds—the most classified woman in U.S. history—takes us on a surreal journey that begins with the secretive FBI and down the dark halls of a feckless Congress to a stonewalling judiciary and finally, to the national security whistleblowers movement she spearheaded. Having lived under Middle East dictatorships, Edmonds knows firsthand what can happen when government is allowed to operate in secret. Hers is a sobering perspective that combines painful experience with a rallying cry for the public’s right to know and to hold the lawbreakers accountable. With U.S. citizens increasingly stripped of their rights in a calibrated media blackout, Edmonds’ story is a wake-up call for all Americans who, willingly or unwillingly, traded liberty for illusive security in the wake of 9/11. http://www.classifiedwoman.com/

http://www.amazon.com/Classified-Woman-The-Sibel-Edmonds-Story/dp/0615602223/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1337871486&sr=8-1


This.

Verrater
05-24-2012, 01:57 PM
Neoconservatives are only one faction. There are more.
I paint that term with a very wide brush. As in Wilsonianism + Keynesianism. But if its beyond that i'd like to hear it.

georgiaboy
05-24-2012, 02:02 PM
All those folks who freaked out when Wikileaks published.

risk_reward
05-24-2012, 04:14 PM
I was at the MN state convention. As far as I can tell, WE are the establishment.

downunder
05-24-2012, 04:49 PM
It looks like there is no definitive definition -- there are a lot of entities that are corrupt and complicit in destroying our liberties, but we don't know who is leading the charge against us. I would say trying to understand that is fairly important.

There has to be someone setting an agenda and politicians will do as they're ordered. That is clear in the manner that congress votes, it's clear in the way the media skews the facts and trivializes important matters. If the major share holders for every major media organisation, big oil, big pharmaceutical, military, entertainment are always owned by these same four companies:

State Street Corporation, Vanguard Group, BlackRock and FMR (Fidelity).


Think about it, MSNBC, Fox, CNN, ABC, whoever you can think of that's trying to stifle the revolution are owned by the above four companies. Companies like Coca Cola, Apple, Sony, Verizon, IBM, Cisco, HP, Goldman Sachs, Citigroup, JP Morgan -- all of them, the same pattern.

I believe that's what Ron Paul is up against, that is what the people of the world are up against.....