"Most Americans want US troops out of Europe"

[Lucille]

Exit Europa (http://voxday.blogspot.com/2012/05/exit-europa.html)


Most Americans want US troops out of Europe (http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm/2012/05/22/shock-poll-51-of-voters-want-us-troops-out-of-europe/):


The Rasmussen polling organization is out with a shock poll that the entire Washington establishment needs to study: 51 percent of voters surveyed said they wanted all US troops out of Europe, now. Only 29 percent favored keeping the troops where they are. US troops have been in Europe since World War Two. In the Cold War, they not only kept the Russians out; they gave the rest of the Old World the confidence that Germany would not come storming back for a rematch. The presence of US troops helped give western Europe its longest era of peace since Roman times.

Since the end of the Cold War the US presence in Europe has made much less sense to the average American, but foreign policy junkies like yours truly think that it still serves a purpose. Not only do those troops provide security in new NATO countries like Poland and the Baltic republics; US bases in Europe are important in dealing with terror and other problems in the Middle East and without the US presence in Europe it is unlikely that NATO in its present form can survive.

Being a sophisticated foreign policy junkie, but not, apparently, a historian or an economist, Walter Russell Mead completely fails to understand the crucial point. It's not that "the arguments for the US presence in Europe are credible, clear and compelling", it's something else that entirely supersedes them. You're BANKRUPT, dude! The USA cannot afford to pay for the US presence in Iraq, in Afghanistan, in South Korea, or in Europe. It's done. It's over. Even the slow-witted American public has finally figured it out...

[Elwar]

Sounds like a lot of Americans just want to forget what happened in WWII and are just asking to get overthrown by the Nazis.

Never forget...

[AngryCanadian]

I am sorry but i have a hard time believeing this little line from Rasmusen polling


The presence of US troops helped give western Europe its longest era of peace since Roman times.
They have to be joking me right? presence of US troops helped give western Europe its longest era of peace since Roman times? wow its almost like saying about the same thing about the german nazis when they occupied Europe.

They weren't really occupying they were just keeping the peace :rolleyes:

[cheapseats]

Sounds like a lot of Americans just want to forget what happened in WWII and are just asking to get overthrown by the Nazis.

Never forget...


It cannot have escaped your notice that Germany DOES pretty much control Europe.

More purse-string pulling, less pulverizing.

[cheapseats]

ANTI WAR sentiment could be whipped up right now: AUSTERITY MEASURES, OR END THE AFGHAN WAR.

Some here seem distinctly more EAGER TO IMPOSE AUSTERITY MEASURES than to end wars.

Gary Johnson is UNAMBIGUOUS about getting out of Afghanistan NOW...not after a another round of profits have been squeezed out of it.

Ron Paul could be doing the same.

You KNOW you've been at war too long when even the people who make no sacrifices are WAR WEARY.

[Brett85]

And yet this doesn't even matter to our politicians in Washington DC. They don't care at all about what the American people think. We're completely irrelevant to them.

[cheapseats]

And yet this doesn't even matter to our politicians in Washington DC. They don't care at all about what the American people think. We're completely irrelevant to them.


They'll care when/if Americans register disapproval in ways that negatively impact bottom lines.

[John F Kennedy III]

And yet this doesn't even matter to our politicians in Washington DC. They don't care at all about what the American people think. We're completely irrelevant to them.

Truth.

[cheapseats]

Gee Dub is keeping a low profile...but Darth Cheney is SURGING.

Considering how widely and deeply despised they are, Karl Rove and Dick Cheney sure get a lotta airtime.

Mitt Romney cozying up to Halliburton Dick is a REALLY good time to play the Anti War card, from the SHEER COST angle and the DISCRIMINATORY CANNON FODDER angle.

[oyarde]

From a purely strategic level , it makes more sense to completely get out of the Middle East and keep some European bases to retaliate from if attacked by someone . From Florida , Alaska , Europe , subs, Navy/Marines , etc you can pretty much do as needed .... Not that I care , really , I am fairly well safe and insulated geographically , I am in a place of little importance to any intelligent enemy :) . If there was a free slate tomorrow , ( and there, sadly is not ) , I would immediately withdraw everything , not Naval from the middle East , end ALL foreign aid ,and then take a look at it ...

[showpan]

Sounds like a lot of Americans just want to forget what happened in WWII and are just asking to get overthrown by the Nazis.

Never forget...

I'm sure all those Middle Easterners we murdered aren't going to forget what we did either.

[cheapseats]

From a purely strategic level , it makes more sense to completely get out of the Middle East and keep some European bases to retaliate from if attacked by someone . From Florida , Alaska , Europe , subs, Navy/Marines , etc you can pretty much do as needed .... Not that I care , really , I am fairly well safe and insulated geographically , I am in a place of little importance to any intelligent enemy :) . If there was a free slate tomorrow , ( and there, sadly is not ) , I would immediately withdraw everything , not Naval from the middle East , end ALL foreign aid ,and then take a look at it ...


I do not presume to know the Military bottom line on "securing the area" but there surely is one...or, quite simply, we are not exceptional and we are most certainly not "the most powerful country in the world".

#ThomasPaine posited in RIGHTS OF MAN that XYZ size/strength of Navy sufficed for national defense. And he presented a stunningly simple algorithm for whittling down Military expenses and their attending taxes at a differential rate such that Elderly, Poor and Infirm would be BETTER cared for than the shameful conditions prevailing while Society simultaneously enjoyed lower taxes.

RIGHTS OF MAN was a real eye-opener. It was NOT "required reading" in school, however, and is obviously not required reading in Congress.

Anyhoo, NOW is the time for the Liberty Moovement to recollect its Anti War roots.

Obama would have American Taxpayers float Afghanistan's boat for TEN MORE YEARS...and Romney is even MORE missionary/colonial.

I should think Gary Johnson will come out swinging about the FISCAL INSANITY of cutting bait with Afghanistan by NOT cutting bait. Let it not be said that he stole Ron Paul's thunder.

I hesitate to say SHOULD, but Ron Paul certainly COULD make a ruckus on the Anti War front.

THIS IS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. EVEN THO OUR BACKS ARE RIGHT UP AGAINST INCOMPREHENSIBLE DEBT WROUGHT BY RECKLESS SPENDING, EVEN THO THE "SUPER" COMMITTEE FAILED UTTERLY TO GET A HANDLE ON THE SPENDING THAT "INSPIRES" THE BORROWING THAT RACKS UP THE DEBT, THEY PROPOSE TO UNDERWRITE AFGHANISTAN FOR ANOTHER DECADE. WE HAVE ALREADY SPENT OVER $500 BILLION DOLLARS IN AFGHANISTAN. THE BOO'S THAT MET THE GOLDEN RULE ARE STILL RINGING IN MY EARS, SO I WON'T WAX ON ABOUT HONOR OR THE CONSTITUTION OR ANYTHING PIE-IN-THE-SKY. THE ECONOMY IS THE ONE THING PEOPLE AGREE IS IMPORTANT. MONEY, JOBS, SECURITY, PROSPERITY.

DOLLARS AND SENSE.

NOWHERE IN OUR CONSTITUTION DOES IT SUGGEST THAT AMERICA SHALL BE INTERNATIONAL 911. ON THE CONTRARY. THE WISDOM AMONG OUR FOUNDING DOCUMENTS INCLUDES DIRE WARNING AGAINST ENTANGLING ALLIANCES. BUT EVEN IF WE WOULD DECIDE (BY PASSING LAWS) TO APPOINT OURSELVES INTERNATIONAL 911, WE CANNOT AFFORD IT AT THIS TIME.

'BROKE' IS A CHALLENGING CONCEPT...AND AN EMBARRASSING ONE WHEN IT IS SELF-INFLICTED. BUT IT IS NOT COMPLICATED. WE ARE BROKE. SOMETHING'S GOTTA GIVE.

WHEN SO MANY AMERICANS HAVE BEEN SUFFERING FOR SO LONG RIGHT HERE AT HOME, LET US FINALLY FINALLY MAKE THE TOUGH CHOICES THAT WE KEEP TALKING ABOUT...LET US FINALLY FINALLY MAKE NECESSARY SPENDING CUTS...BUT LET US BEGIN ABROAD RATHER THAN STATESIDE. THAT IS PLAIN OLD COMMON SENSE.

It would not only be better for Americans, it would be better for the entire world if both Ron Paul and Gary Johnson play the ANTI WAR card.

Weirdly, ANTI WAR would not only distinguish "Liberty Republicans" from Romney and the Old Guard, it would distinguish them from Faux Peace Prize Obama and Faux Peacenik Democrats.

With Romney sounding like hundred-year McCain and Johnson calling for immediate/complete withdrawal from Afghanistan, Ron Paul could actually come in "rightest" in the eyes of the INCREASING-NOT-DECREASING number of Republicans who want OUT of the money pit.