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KingTheoden
11-16-2007, 12:21 AM
I am truly stunned that the government, in an obvious act of desperation, chose to confiscate and vanquish a coin business. The flagrant disregard for law and American values demonstrates that our adversaries are truly dangerous and will enact and execute a complete police state given the chance.

We should organize to design new dies and mint Ron Paul rounds. I have absolutely no experience in production of dies so I do not even know the starting point. But I do know two things: 1) We have to show these terrorists that they will not intimidate us and 2) I was going to order a bunch of Ron Paul dollars for Christmas presents.

RPF elders, please chime in!

ronpaulyourmom
11-16-2007, 12:23 AM
I chime in by saying that the best way to win this battle is to elect Ron Paul president of the United States, and I propose we undertake measures to accomplish this immediately, in defense of our personal sovereignty.

Indy Vidual
11-16-2007, 12:25 AM
They would need to be collectible silver tokens, clearly not money.

KingTheoden
11-16-2007, 12:27 AM
They would need to be collectible silver tokens, clearly not money.

I was thinking something along the lines of that. Perhaps we could find an old monetary symbol to slap on it or call it a Mark, Franc, etc.

American
11-16-2007, 12:27 AM
Well the best thing to do and the easiest thing to do is blog like mad, digg the articles and post them so allot of people see it.

I'm serious, this all started here from an email, then it was posted here.

I like the cast/die idea also but the set up cost for an engraver would be pretty pricey.

JeffersonThomas
11-16-2007, 12:30 AM
I don't know if this has been posted here yet, but there is a large article in the New York Sun on the raid. I don't know if the forum ever decided to believe or disbelieve the e-mail but the Sun convinces me it's all true. Please read here if you're interested:
http://www.nysun.com/article/66542?page_no=1

ronpaulfan
11-16-2007, 12:42 AM
Counter offensive = Support the owner in a massive lawsuit

Furis
11-16-2007, 12:44 AM
Counter Offensive = ELECT RON PAUL AS PRESIDENT


Its the best thing we can do.

Drknows
11-16-2007, 12:49 AM
Well after reading the news about it the owner seems very genuine in his support for Ron Paul and not just out to make a buck.

http://www.nysun.com/article/66542?page_no=1


Mr. von NotHaus, a supporter of the presidential candidate, said he put Mr. Paul's image on the dollars to raise attention for the candidate. An eclectic nationwide crew of libertarians and coin enthusiasts exchange the coins.

"I thought, 'What can I do for him?'" Mr. von NotHaus said. "I'll do a dollar. It's 1 ounce of pure copper.

So i look at him like a fellow RP supporter.

I'm not sure what we can do. Obviously they've been in a legal battle for many years. I guess just show support and see how things turn out. In reality i dont know much about them so im guessing the average American doesn't either. I bet more gold lovers/coin enthusiasts will probably end up supporting Ron Paul after this.

Also most of us dont know the legalities of this, maybe they did break some law. I'm not saying that law is right or wrong but i wouldn't encourage others to take that same route.

Like someone said before the best thing we can do is get Ron Paul elected.

r3volution
11-16-2007, 12:51 AM
we need to know the reason on the warrant ,,

foofighter20x
11-16-2007, 12:55 AM
While you guys work on that, I'm calling my 2 Senators in the morning.

Richandler
11-16-2007, 01:02 AM
We need to get it to penetrate the MSM is what we need. As unlikely as that seems. Also there is no reason not to buy more gold and silver from else where.

LibertyEagle
11-16-2007, 01:49 AM
Counter Offensive = ELECT RON PAUL AS PRESIDENT


Its the best thing we can do.

+1


There will be PLENTY of time, if we do not win the nomination. First things first. Do not get sidetracked, or we'll all have plenty to cry about. There are SO many people out there who still don't even know who Ron IS, much less know his stances. It us up to us. Let's not let ourselves and our country, down.

Furis
11-16-2007, 01:50 AM
While you guys work on that, I'm calling my 2 Senators in the morning.

This is not a half bad idea.


Kudos

LibertyEagle
11-16-2007, 01:54 AM
Moderators...

Do we really need the five or more threads about this in the Ron Paul Grassroots section of this forum?

Triton
11-16-2007, 04:51 AM
I am truly stunned that the government, in an obvious act of desperation, chose to confiscate and vanquish a coin business. The flagrant disregard for law and American values demonstrates that our adversaries are truly dangerous and will enact and execute a complete police state given the chance.

We should organize to design new dies and mint Ron Paul rounds. I have absolutely no experience in production of dies so I do not even know the starting point. But I do know two things: 1) We have to show these terrorists that they will not intimidate us and 2) I was going to order a bunch of Ron Paul dollars for Christmas presents.

RPF elders, please chime in!By dragging Ron Paul into this issue, you further associate him with CTers and other freaks. CTers, please go away. You will be the death of this campaign.

Mortikhi
11-16-2007, 07:14 AM
Work to get Ron Paul elected
but...
buy a gun, hit the firing range, and work on your marksmanship as well.

Sematary
11-16-2007, 07:20 AM
Counter Offensive = ELECT RON PAUL AS PRESIDENT


Its the best thing we can do.

EXACTLY!!!!

Any time spent on a lawsuit or setting up a new "minting" service would only take away from the efforts needed to get RP elected right now. If we DON'T get RP elected then we will be living in a complete police state soon anyway.

Indy Vidual
11-16-2007, 07:21 AM
By dragging Ron Paul into this issue, you further associate him with CTers and other freaks. CTers, please go away. You will be the death of this campaign.

Ron's face was on thousands of confiscated coins, we did not "drag him into the issue."

Please, do not tell anyone to go away. :)
What is a CT'er?

pcosmar
11-16-2007, 07:56 AM
THIS IS RON PAUL RELATED

This is directly related to One of Ron Paul's KEY positions.
Thousands of Ron Paul's supporters are involved and had their assets seized,as well as their personal information.
This Is Un-Constitutional and a Crime against Americans.

This needs to be Widely Published and Condemned.

crhoades
11-16-2007, 08:03 AM
While you're getting Ron Paul elected (priority), take time to read Murray Rothbard's What has the Government Done With Our Money found here:
http://www.mises.org/money.asp

Or download the audio of it to your .mp3 player and listen to it on your commute. If we are going to win, we have to win the intellectual war.
http://www.mises.org/media.aspx?action=category&ID=92

KingTheoden
11-16-2007, 09:06 AM
Ron's face was on thousands of confiscated coins, we did not "drag him into the issue."

Please, do not tell anyone to go away. :)
What is a CT'er?

Thank you! A man's business was literally sucked up a black hole and clearly it was because the Ron Paul coins were popular. As I wrote, I was going to buy a load THAT MORNING for Christmas. They are beautiful keepsakes and I want to buy some!!

Exactly how us 'associating Ron Paul' with this is bad is not clear to me.

GHoeberX
11-16-2007, 09:17 AM
I was thinking something along the lines of that. Perhaps we could find an old monetary symbol to slap on it or call it a Mark, Franc, etc.

Take Florin :D It was a coin used in the Netherlands between 1601 and 1846. Since then (between 1846 and 2002) they used the Guilder ('Gulden') in the Netherlands. They still use Florin in the small island of Aruba, for the rest it's not used anymore.

Florin originates from the Italian city Florence btw.

PS. Now I think about the historical context: in the time the florin was being used, Netherlands was fighting against the Spaniards for independence and at the same time had built New Amsterdam, later to be renamed to New York. So when New York was founded they had the florin as well :)

FireofLiberty
11-16-2007, 09:20 AM
Badnarik was discussing the raid this morning on his radio show. I only caught the tail end of it but I believe he had Bernard von NotHaus on. Eventually the show will be uploaded to the archives:

http://mp3.wtprn.com/Badnarik07.html

Fyretrohl
11-16-2007, 09:24 AM
I have recently been involved with a group that minted a coin for collective reasons. The pricing was reasonable and the service was great. It took some work, but, it was not a lot of effort. I believe that individuals, outside of their efforts for teh campaign, could do such a thing. There are minimum order numbers, etc. But, it was all fairly painless. We did silver coins and a bunch of proofs.

michaelwise
11-16-2007, 09:33 AM
I am moving all my US based currency assets out of the US markets, as a form of protest. The assault by our government on our private property rights is disgusting. Why is my government making me hate it more and more every day?

DrNoZone
11-16-2007, 09:40 AM
I think the Phoenix Dollar company might do custom rounds: www.phoenixdollar.com

teshuah
11-16-2007, 09:59 AM
the libertydollar.org site now has confirmation on their website that it was for real, including pdf's of the warrants.

warrant says there was fraud involved.

were the coins he was selling not everything he claimed them to be?

robert4rp08
11-16-2007, 10:31 AM
Yeah, keep focused on the prize; Ron Paul as the Republican nomination.

thePhilosopher
11-16-2007, 10:56 AM
RP supporters should be focused on the prize, which is the presidency... but these kinds of stories give me the creeps. Get the word out on this story to anyone who will listen.

ashlux
11-16-2007, 10:57 AM
we need to know the reason on the warrant ,,

Here's the affidavit: http://www.johnlocke.org/site-docs/meckdeck/pdfs/USAVLibdoll.pdf

And here's some information: http://reason.com/blog/show/123553.html

ashlux
11-16-2007, 10:58 AM
were the coins he was selling not everything he claimed them to be?

No, that's not the issue. Check out the affidavit: http://www.johnlocke.org/site-docs/meckdeck/pdfs/USAVLibdoll.pdf

Get this: they quote geocities.com! wth!

Revolution9
11-16-2007, 10:59 AM
By dragging Ron Paul into this issue, you further associate him with CTers and other freaks. CTers, please go away. You will be the death of this campaign.

The company is one of the ones that would be producing a competing curency. They produced coins in copper, silver, gold and platinum with Dr Paul's face on them. They have been supportive of hm for years. Yet you new people want to just eject the association. Is there no loyalty in your quest for victory.. because if there isn't then victory will be shallow. This is a case of honor.. And not the Huckabee brand.

Randy

KewlRonduderules
11-16-2007, 11:05 AM
Anybody read the reason article:

The document also mentions that the company continued to circulate Liberty Dollars after it had been warned by the US Mint not to do so. Part of the evidence cited for this is an FBI agent purchasing a "The US Mint Can Bite Me" t-shirt at a Liberty Dollar University event in October 2006.
The affidavit concludes that because the Liberty Dollar operation uses Federal Reserve Notes to conduct its business, it is fraudulent. "This reliance upon FRN's by a group opposed to FRN's demonstrates that the American Liberty Dollar Monetary system is simply a drain on the United State Government's monetary system for financial profit via fraudulent means," the feds claim. The document further claims there is probable cause that violations of federal law took place as a result of these activities.

So accordingly, this leads to the other charges- mail fraud, wire fraud, and money laundering.


Did I miss something here or does this sound way off base?

I guess if I exchange my video games for DVD movies- it is consider fraudulent because I use federal reserve notes .

This sounds really screwed up.

lisajames96
11-16-2007, 11:26 AM
because the Liberty Dollar operation uses Federal Reserve Notes to conduct its business, it is fraudulent

So does Chuck E Cheese:D and any token for USD sytem. I can do what ever I want with tokens after I purchase them, even barter them for other things(prizes, rides) right?
Just thinking out loud here...
Also, my liberties look nothing like US coinage. There isn't a $ sign on US coins is it? I hope that isn't the issue...jeesh...
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/6424/100b2670lu9.th.jpg (http://img144.imageshack.us/my.php?image=100b2670lu9.jpg)

American
11-16-2007, 11:32 AM
Like allot of raids the Govt knows its illegal but they can seize your operational materials while it gets sorted in court. Most people cant withstand this time period and fail.

I hope someone will help these people stay afloat while this gets sorted, if not we will never see them in business again.

Patrick Henry
11-16-2007, 11:33 AM
If people are paying attention to the prices of gold, silver, copper etc.. and see the dollar crashing like it is, it could help the good Dr. seeing as how he has been preaching this stuff for years.

Does this raid help or hurt Dr. Paul? What are you guys take on this?

KewlRonduderules
11-16-2007, 11:40 AM
Neither. Unless, the media puts spin on it.

Pharoah
11-16-2007, 11:42 AM
When you see threads with titles like this one, please keep in mind the “Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007". If it passes, there are many who would love to attack Ron Paul by demonizing his supporters as future-terrorists. We need to choose our words carefully.

DrNoZone
11-16-2007, 11:47 AM
So, according to the affidavit, the FBI tested the coins in their lab and confirmed that the amount of metal said to constitute these coins is CORRECT. For all of those naysayers that doubted (specifically one, but I can't recall his alias here).

pcosmar
11-16-2007, 11:58 AM
Neither. Unless, the media puts spin on it.

This Piece is not negative.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_sSipUrBG0

pcosmar
11-16-2007, 12:01 PM
When you see threads with titles like this one, please keep in mind the “Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007". If it passes, there are many who would love to attack Ron Paul by demonizing his supporters as future-terrorists. We need to choose our words carefully.

I have been stressing calm on another site. Some people are very angry, and not all of Ron Paul's supporters post here.
This may have been staged to provoke a reaction.

thePhilosopher
11-16-2007, 12:17 PM
When you see threads with titles like this one, please keep in mind the “Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007". If it passes, there are many who would love to attack Ron Paul by demonizing his supporters as future-terrorists. We need to choose our words carefully.

Very good point.

parke
11-16-2007, 12:26 PM
I think we should unite in protest of the Federal Reserve on Dec. 23rd. it will be a week after the tea party.. and they just gave us great ammunition for our argument.

Cleaner44
11-16-2007, 12:34 PM
So does Chuck E Cheese:D and any token for USD sytem. I can do what ever I want with tokens after I purchase them, even barter them for other things(prizes, rides) right?
Just thinking out loud here...
Also, my liberties look nothing like US coinage. There isn't a $ sign on US coins is it? I hope that isn't the issue...jeesh...
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/6424/100b2670lu9.th.jpg (http://img144.imageshack.us/my.php?image=100b2670lu9.jpg)

There are many companies that make and sell 1 oz Silver discs. There is nothing wrong with that. What if the image were a Boy Scouts logo? Would they be busted? What if the Girls Scouts were selling silver discs instead of cookies? Would they be busted? No, because it is not wrong or illegal. Neither are Liberty dollars.

Question_Authority
11-16-2007, 01:11 PM
THIS IS RON PAUL RELATED

This is directly related to One of Ron Paul's KEY positions.
Thousands of Ron Paul's supporters are involved and had their assets seized,as well as their personal information.
This Is Un-Constitutional and a Crime against Americans.

This needs to be Widely Published and Condemned.

But this could backfire and be a huge negative for the campaign. More people will be turned off by this than turned on. The public is very uneducated and close-minded about such matters. I hope it stays under the radar of the MSM. They will only use it as ammo against our fledgling candidate.

Zarxrax
11-16-2007, 01:13 PM
Some of the stuff in that affidavit sounds a bit damning... multi-level-marketing, changing the face value of a coin from $10 to $20 overnight, etc.
I'm all for abolishing the fed, but can anyone defend the liberty dollar on all the issues that are brought up in that thing?

By the way, Cleaner44, that quote in your signature is quite false.

rpliving
11-16-2007, 01:13 PM
USA today: http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2007/11/feds-seize-two.html

unklejman
11-16-2007, 01:30 PM
USA today: http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2007/11/feds-seize-two.html

"Feds seize two tons of funny money featuring Ron Paul"

That has got to be one of the most bias head lines I've read.

qednick
11-16-2007, 01:31 PM
"Feds seize two tons of funny money featuring Ron Paul"

That has got to be one of the most bias head lines I've read.

Everyone... please go there and register/login and leave comments on the article!

Revolution9
11-16-2007, 02:13 PM
Very good point.

Yeah.. Let us all shake in our boots at unconstitutional color of law. It will embolden them greatly to proceed with their illegal actions. Frankly these clowns need their tades crimped.

Best
Randy

Revolution9
11-16-2007, 02:19 PM
But this could backfire and be a huge negative for the campaign. More people will be turned off by this than turned on. The public is very uneducated and close-minded about such matters. I hope it stays under the radar of the MSM. They will only use it as ammo against our fledgling candidate.

So.. the best thing to do then is play into their hands and do what you wish us to do? Who controls this card game of electoral politics? The people or gambits by the PTB? Ask yourself that before you lie down in front of their machine to get crushed. I sense a great fear of the goverment and powers it has usurped. Many here will lie down like whooped dogs rather than stand up for the law odf the land.. Yet you deride politicians who play the same cozy game you want everyone else to play..except Ron.. mildly baffling but in line with so much of current american cultural norms..

Randy

Revolution9
11-16-2007, 02:23 PM
By the way, Cleaner44, that quote in your signature is quite false.

It may not be exact but the metaphor is quite truthful in regards to that SOB's baleful attitude towards the Law Of the Land. . And don't think you can defend Bush without getting a severe drubbing for it.. the last thing we need are bushrats coming onto this ship whilst theirs is sinking quick. They bring all of their diseased mindsets along with them.. They need to detox first.

Randy

KewlRonduderules
11-16-2007, 02:30 PM
But this could backfire and be a huge negative for the campaign. More people will be turned off by this than turned on. The public is very uneducated and close-minded about such matters. I hope it stays under the radar of the MSM. They will only use it as ammo against our fledgling candidate.

This sounds either really pessismistic or rather trollish.

Either way, this tone does not help us here.

American
11-16-2007, 02:33 PM
But this could backfire and be a huge negative for the campaign. More people will be turned off by this than turned on. The public is very uneducated and close-minded about such matters. I hope it stays under the radar of the MSM. They will only use it as ammo against our fledgling candidate.

Really, I think your name should be subservient_to_Govt.....or Govt_$%&* but Question_Authority....give me a break.

This is a perfect example for the uneducated to make a correlation between what Dr. Paul talks about the this novelty money the Liberty Dollar and the lack of freedom to choose

I certainly hope Dr. Paul uses this is show point blank the absurdity's of the federal reserve notes which have no real value.

pcosmar
11-16-2007, 02:34 PM
Local coverage. Positive Spin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_sSipUrBG0

davidkachel
11-16-2007, 02:49 PM
Stay focused folks. Getting RP elected is our last chance to restore liberty without resorting to objects that make loud noises.
Make no mistake about it... the FBI IS the modern day gestapo. NOT could be, would be, might be, but IS!!
The only difference between the FBI and the Nazis is that the Nazis were much snappier dressers.
The reason this company was raided was to draw attention away from the RP message. If you get off track and start doing something else, you've given them what they want.

KewlRonduderules
11-16-2007, 03:03 PM
Speaking of FBI, take a look at this article and video by thestreet.com

http://www.thestreet.com/s/raid-on-ron-paul-dollar-maker/markets/marketfeatures/10390631.html?puc=googlefi

Electric Church
11-16-2007, 03:17 PM
As a Canadian observer, there seems to be a contingent on this forum that have the single-minded purpose of encouraging others to do nothing except hand out slim jims and get Ron Paul elected. Don’t fret when you see your liberties being eroded and they steal your possessions, don’t fret when they call you terrorists in the MSM. When your liberties and your reputation are being attacked just go hand out slim jims and everything will work itself out. Just stay calm, lie still now, don’t worry about that knife heading for your throat, it’s just some shadow threat, if you resist by kickin and screamin you’ll scare folks away because they’ll think you’re a kook. Shhhhh… calm down now… this won’t hurt a bit …hehehehehe

Man from La Mancha
11-16-2007, 03:27 PM
Well when I'm going to get my 10 copper Paul's?



http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/9435/blackwsmallyh7.gif (teaparty07.com)..http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/8947/brighton7gs5.gif (teaparty07.com)..copy,paste,linked to teaparty07.com , either one, only 1 million at $100

davidkachel
11-16-2007, 03:27 PM
As a Canadian observer, there seems to be a contingent on this forum that have the single-minded purpose of encouraging others to do nothing except hand out slim jims and get Ron Paul elected. Don’t fret when you see your liberties being eroded and they steal your possessions, don’t fret when they call you terrorists in the MSM. When your liberties and your reputation are being attacked just go hand out slim jims and everything will work itself out. Just stay calm, lie still now, don’t worry about that knife heading for your throat, it’s just some shadow threat, if you resist by kickin and screamin you’ll scare folks away because they’ll think you’re a kook. Shhhhh… calm down now… this won’t hurt a bit …hehehehehe

Electric Church, I understand your feelings, but we have to be careful not to play into their hands.

If you will recall recent history... the FBI was able to slaughter dozens of people at Waco with impunity because they first intentionally and with malice aforethought, painted the victims in the press as nutjobs unworthy of public sympathy. This worked so well that even Congress, with ample evidence of guilt, did nothing and not a single FBI Nazi was charged with what was plainly murder.

They know the quickest way to get rid of RP is to paint him as a nutjob in the press. They are hoping this coin thing will be the ticket to do that and quite plainly this is the reason for the raid. Imagine you are a "voter" who never heard of Ron Paul until you read in the newspaper about a "fringe" candidate who has his own silver dollar!!!

Bingo, instant nut job classification in the public mind and instant non-viable candidacy. We must distance ourselves from this as much as possible. From here on out the attacks will get more clever and more vicious. If we don't keep our heads, we will hand them the victory they seek.

Electric Church
11-16-2007, 04:30 PM
Electric Church, I understand your feelings, but we have to be careful not to play into their hands.

If you will recall recent history... the FBI was able to slaughter dozens of people at Waco with impunity because they first intentionally and with malice aforethought,....


A dozen people, mostly women and children, can not be compared to millions of passionate Ron Paul supporters



They know the quickest way to get rid of RP is to paint him as a nutjob in the press. Bingo, instant nut job classification in the public mind and instant non-viable candidacy.

They’ve already painted Ron Paul as being worse that a "nut job" by saying he's in bed with islamo-fascists, in essence saying he's the leader of a terrorists organization. These kinds of accusations must be defended against and counter acted immediately and rigorously. By doing this Ron Paul supporters can demonstrate to the misinformed public how to peacefully revolt against these false accusations while at the same time forcing the establishment to eat their words in public view.

Matt Collins
04-23-2011, 07:59 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0D7s4MfbQE







He was also recently interviewed on Freedom Watch by Judge Napolitano:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufHiZKKh9Hw#t=27m0s