MA delegates must sign affidavit to vote Romney??

[Massachusetts]

Massachusetts delegates to the RNC in Tampa have received a letter and affidavit that they are being asked to sign and return, affirming that, under the pain and penalty of perjury, they will vote for Mitt Romney in the first round of voting.

Below is the text of the letter and affidavit, transcribed by me, as it was read to me over the phone by an elected Massachusetts delegate. What should they do?


- - - - - L e t t e r - - - - -

Dear Massachusetts Republican Delegates and Massachusetts Republican Alternate Delegates,

Under the rules of the Massachusetts Republican Party Plan for the Selection of Delegates and the rules of the National Republican Party, the Avocation Committee charged with certifying Massachusetts delegates for the 2012 Republican National Convention in Tampa, Florida requires each elected delegate and alternate to sign, under the pains and penalties of perjury, the herewith enclosed affirmation, and to be returned on or before 3pm May 29, 2012 to the Massachusetts Republican Party at 85 Merrimack Street, Suite 400, Boston MA 02114.

Electronic delivery, in any form, will not be accepted. Your failure to duly and timely remit the enclosed affidavit will put your status as a delegate in jeopardy.

Sincerely

Ed McGrath
Allocation Committee Chairman

- - - - - A f f a d a v i t: - - - - -

I ________ residing at _______ in ________ MA, was elected at the ________ Congressional District Caucus held in _______ MA on April 28, 2012 as a National Delegate / Alternate Delegate to the 2012 Republican National Convention. In accordance with Sections 70b and 70i, Chapter 53 of the General Laws of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, the Massachusetts Republican Party Plan for the selection of delegates to the Tampa Florida 2012 National Convention and Rule 15 of the Rules of the Republican Party, I certify under the pain and penalty of perjury, that on the first ballot at the 2012 Republican National Convention, I will affirmatively Vote for Mitt Romney, the winner of the 2012 Massachusetts Presidential Primary.


Source: DP (http://www.dailypaul.com/235514/what-should-they-do-ma-delegates-must-sign-an-affidavit-that-they-will-vote-for-romney-on-the-first-ballot)

:eek:

If the "Liberty Slate" delegates weren't a threat, why the hell would they make the delegates sign an affidavit? Keep fighting this BS!

[MozoVote]

They'll probably sign it. It's more important to have liberty delegates in Tampa voting on all the other party business, than try and subvert the outcome in a state that Romney's thugs will do anything to keep.

[CPUd]

Did this come via regular USPS mail? If so, there's no telling who sent it. Don't sign anything without consulting a lawyer.

[Zach Vega]

This is sad. Damn.

[kathy88]

F to the No! If it's not SOP and in the rules get together and hire an attorney. Chip in.

[cassielund99@gmail.com]

I would take that to a attorney. To me that is more of a threat. Also check party state rules if its in there. Massachusetts under party rule can't make every delegate vote for Romney. That would mean they are voting as a unit. There primary was before april 1st which is against party rules.

[JK/SEA]

If it wasn't a certified letter that you have to sign off that you received said letter...ignore it. If you get any flak, tell them you never received nor saw it...

Another dirty trick. Don't fall for it.

[evilfunnystuff]

penalty of perjury

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perjury


The rules for perjury also apply when a person has made a statement under penalty of perjury, even if the person has not been sworn or affirmed as a witness before an appropriate official. An example of this is the United States' income tax return, which, by law, must be signed as true and correct under penalty of perjury (see 26 U.S.C. § 6065). Federal tax law provides criminal penalties of up to three years in prison for violation of the tax return perjury statute. See: 26 U.S.C. § 7206(1)

Statements of interpretation of fact are not perjury because people often make inaccurate statements unwittingly and not deliberately.[citation needed] Individuals may have honest but mistaken beliefs about certain facts, or their recollection may be inaccurate. Like most other crimes in the common law system, to be convicted of perjury one must have had the intention (mens rea) to commit the act, and to have actually committed the act (actus reus). Subornation of perjury, attempting to induce another person to perjure themselves, is itself a crime.

[jcannon98188]

Agreed. It is a lie. Do not fall for it.

[Carlybee]

I would email it to an attorney asap and get the word quicker out if it's bogus.

[kpitcher]

If this is legit is any other state doing this? If not that alone should be a newsworthy story. "Romney's state scared their delegates won't vote for Romney" is a catchy headline.

[wgadget]

Hmmm...As if there is an OPTION? Who knew.

[Sentient Void]

Indeed. Do *NOT* sign this without first consulting with an attorney. They can ask you to sign this all they want - and they can threaten you with vague claims of 'putting your delegate or alternate spot in jeopardy' - but I could do the same exact thing myself - and I'm not any part of the GOP apparatchik.

Plus, the caucuses are already *over*. Both the delegates *and* alternates have already been chosen. How could they properly 'replace' delegates? They couldn't simply arbitrarily dictate other delegates outside the existing delegates and alternates without following the process, of which I'm pretty sure they can't do. The implications of this and the precedent it would set, that a campaign or GOP could dictate who could and could not be delegates regardless of the caucus process, is pretty significant essentially destroying the caucus process in oen well swoop, and drastically changing the process for determining delegates to an absolutely undemocratic process.

[wgadget]

And maybe call the MA attorney general? And the Obama campaign? LOL

Tampa is gonna be fun.

[dude58677]

LOL, This isn't the normal behavior of a "presumptive nominee".

[jbauer]

What I don't get is what they're scared of? Paul? Really? They think Romney has a better chance to win then Paul against dumbo?

The worst thing that will result from this year is when Romney wins the GOP nominee and gets BLOWN out by Obama they're all going to say it was our fault. That alone could set the liberty movement back. End of the day we'll need the GOP to sucessfuly take our country back.

[drummergirl]

Definitely get thee to a lawyer!

That has to be the most bogus piece of dog poo ever. I'd fire back with subornation of perjury charges against whoever sent that out.

[TonySutton]

http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleVIII/Chapter56

I read through the penalties for breaking election laws and do not see anything that specifically mentions penalties for delegates violating any duties or requirements. Although most of the penalties are not extremely harsh. We could always do chip-ins to pay any fines :P

[well_met_sir]

The delegates need to sign the damn thing. Unlike other states, Massachusetts DOES have the ability to remove delegates after they have been selected. They have a commission of 8 or so people that can vote to replace delegates.

The absolute most important thing is that we get Paul supporters to Tampa. Everything else will take care of itself.

[TimeForChange]

With this coming out, does this prove our assumptions about Rule 38?

[SpiritOf1776_J4]

So this means that alternatives will be voting in Tampa?

No, but it says that, so it means that alternatives will be committing perjury if they sign this because they aren't going to be voting and they are signing a statement that says they will. No?

Actually, you can't commit perjury over future performance. Perjury is not contracts from private organizations, and it definitely is not about future events. It's about facts right now.

Not worth the paper its on. Get a good lawyer to write a cease and desist letter, because I think making false statements about such things to a sitting delegate may itself be a crime. There is nothing in the GOP Ma rules that even says they should send out such a letter. This is a sloppily written letter by an amatuer that will get someone in trouble if you send in a good lawyer.

[CPUd]

Remember the provisional ballot challenges in Mass. ? They are deciding to not count them : http://www.redmassgroup.com/diary/14692/sources-say-massgop-general-counsel-rules-provisional-ballots-not-in-rules-and-wont-be-counted

[devil21]

Pains and penalties? Are you fucking serious? They really wrote that? How very Stasi of them.

Just say you'll vote for Mitt and remain stealth. Who cares at this point. They're desperate to figure out who the Paulites are. Don't make it easy on them.

MITT 2012! If you receive some crap like this letter.

[notsure]

No notary.

[devil21]

Perjury to who? What law in MA (or any other state) can charge someone with a crime for lying to a private organization? That's pure 1st Amendment at work.

[psi2941]

i got a better idea, lets every ron paul supporter send them a bogus letter filled out. sort of a real life ddos attack.

edit: if someone can give me the list of delegates, and a pdf copy of that letter. i'll send one in.

[anaconda]

Perjury to who? What law in MA (or any other state) can charge someone with a crime for lying to a private organization? That's pure 1st Amendment at work.

I was thinking the same thing...perjury...LOL

[LostNFoundNTx]

Actually, you can't commit perjury over future performance. Perjury is not contracts from private organizations, and it definitely is not about future events. It's about facts right now.

Correct. If a letter like that was actually allowed, anyone who signs it and then fails to show up at the RNC in Tampa (even if their spouse died and had a funeral that day) would be facing up to three years of jail time.

[JamesButabi]

i got a better idea, lets every ron paul supporter send them a bogus letter filled out. sort of a real life ddos attack.

edit: if someone can give me the list of delegates, and a pdf copy of that letter. i'll send one in.

Now that's some creative civil dis lol

[Constitutional Paulicy]

There must be some people within the Paul campaign that could best advise the delegates how to respond to this. I'd suggest they get in touch with the campaign and have some one there send out a notice to all the delegates.

[CPUd]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiKRxOxVkDk

[psi2941]

i got a better idea, lets every ron paul supporter send them a bogus letter filled out. sort of a real life ddos attack.

edit: if someone can give me the list of delegates, and a pdf copy of that letter. i'll send one in.
i'm waiting for the pdf! and the list of delegates names and address.... i'll promise to send one in for each delegate

[romancito]

So this means that alternatives will be voting in Tampa?

No, but it says that, so it means that alternatives will be committing perjury if they sign this because they aren't going to be voting and they are signing a statement that says they will. No?

Actually, you can't commit perjury over future performance. Perjury is not contracts from private organizations, and it definitely is not about future events. It's about facts right now.

Not worth the paper its on. Get a good lawyer to write a cease and desist letter, because I think making false statements about such things to a sitting delegate may itself be a crime. There is nothing in the GOP Ma rules that even says they should send out such a letter. This is a sloppily written letter by an amatuer that will get someone in trouble if you send in a good lawyer.

That seems like a prank. Which tells me that this RNC Convention is not going to end very well.

[No1butPaul]

DO NOT SIGN
(According to Ben Swann)

From Daily Paul
http://www.dailypaul.com/235729/ben-swann-update-on-affadavits

From Ben Swann's Facebook page:

Massachusetts RNC delegates.. do not sign any affidavit!

I posted last night a letter that has gone out reportedly to Massachusetts delegates requiring that they sign an affidavit stating that they will vote for Romney at the RNC or risk "the pain and penalty of perjury." This is a VERY serious issue. Massachusetts delegates need not take this lightly. I was emailed these quotes by Alison Wright. These are comments by Jerry Davis at Lawyers for Ron Paul:

"1. "It IS ILLEGAL TO FORCE ANYONE TO VOTE ANY CERTAIN WAY...PERIOD!!!!"

2. "ALL of the 'binding' IS under civil constitutional law....VERIFIABLY...ILLEGAL."

3. "We are not even going the rule 38 route, ANY means of manipulating a vote, whether by proxy or by unit, is illegal."

4. "The RNC's use of these rules in their very nature, are illegal, but no-one has brought this to the table yet."VOTE ANY CERTAIN WAY...PERIOD!!!! ALL of the "binding" IS under civil constitutional law....VERIFIABLY...ILLEGAL."

https://www.facebook.com/BenSwannRealityCheck

[Antischism]

God, it almost feels like we have to take the whole world to court these days. So much BS is emerging in the attempt to stifle us.

[Sentient Void]

DO NOT SIGN
(According to Ben Swann)

From Daily Paul
http://www.dailypaul.com/235729/ben-swann-update-on-affadavits

From Ben Swann's Facebook page:

Massachusetts RNC delegates.. do not sign any affidavit!

I posted last night a letter that has gone out reportedly to Massachusetts delegates requiring that they sign an affidavit stating that they will vote for Romney at the RNC or risk "the pain and penalty of perjury." This is a VERY serious issue. Massachusetts delegates need not take this lightly. I was emailed these quotes by Alison Wright. These are comments by Jerry Davis at Lawyers for Ron Paul:

"1. "It IS ILLEGAL TO FORCE ANYONE TO VOTE ANY CERTAIN WAY...PERIOD!!!!"

2. "ALL of the 'binding' IS under civil constitutional law....VERIFIABLY...ILLEGAL."

3. "We are not even going the rule 38 route, ANY means of manipulating a vote, whether by proxy or by unit, is illegal."

4. "The RNC's use of these rules in their very nature, are illegal, but no-one has brought this to the table yet."VOTE ANY CERTAIN WAY...PERIOD!!!! ALL of the "binding" IS under civil constitutional law....VERIFIABLY...ILLEGAL."

https://www.facebook.com/BenSwannRealityCheck

Spread this to all of your MA buddies, everyone... and especially anyone selected as a delegate or connected to a delegate in any way. I know I will.

[No1butPaul]

Spread this to all of your MA buddies, everyone... and especially anyone selected as a delegate or connected to a delegate in any way. I know I will.

Do you think this thread should be made priority, or a new one started as priority?

Edit - Never mind, I see a new one started!

[cassielund99@gmail.com]

I can see the convention now. Every one of Ron Paul delegates will have there own personal attorney to protect them from the GOP. They are working hard to get rid of us. Only one problem it makes us stronger and makes them look weaker.

[Massachusetts]

There is no way this thing is "over" if they are going to these lengths to block Ron.