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asainassporn
05-19-2012, 01:24 AM
Very late night conversation with a friend about ron paul ideas... She is very against it, and follows differnet areas than I do. Perhaps someone could give me information links i need to continue convo later? :D

Lots of text. color coded: red her, Blue me, and I code wrapped to make it not take up a wall of text. :)

This was a one hour conversation..


he wants to privatize us to death, and corporations answer to us far less than corporations. He wants to keep Bush tax cuts to the rich on the table, while cutting all of the safety
nets the poor need. You want to talk about college fees? Try the poor he'd be condemning by cutting the Urban and Housing Development Agency. Oh, and the Secretary of EDUCATION. Ron Paul won't be helping any of us.
corps answer to us less than gov

And don't get me started on abortion or the environment.

Or the idea that I'm against Ron Paul because he disagreed with Bush. Bush fucked up everything, esp the Middle East. Moving on...

IF THE STATES GET FREE REIGNS, WE'RE ALL DEAD.

or at least really really miserable


Regulations do not stop corruption, or mergers, or bankruptcy or fraud. Regulations serve the government,
who claims it's we the people, but it's not. If it was, cannabis would be legal.

I did not research into the bush tax cut.

Romney would keep us in there. Obama has changed nothign at all. We have moved to hiring people to go over there while bringing minimal troops back.
In there for 10 more years also, becfause of obama.

How do you get that conclusion of states having power we are all dead/miserable? Can you please give me info.
I am looking up bush tax cut info at the moment.

Bush tax cuts: help the rich, strange the middle class.


Can you please give me stats on that statement?

Kansas: new law against women getting equal pay to men

Utah: education plan banning sex ed, except for tried and failed abstinence

Mississippi: cops openly stopped a Gay Pride Parade, because it was a Gay Pride Parade

LA: Katrina clusterfuck, as Bush was an idiot and THE STATE didn't have the political infrastructure to deal with it as necessary

Historical reference: The Guilded Age.

Uhmm.. No the katrina thing is completely bull I know a contractor who worked during it. The katrina thing.
That company that was giving the money for the rebuilding process gave 500 million to our state governor. However, he coudl not accoutn for 324 million of it,
and asked for 1.5 million more. He ended up making all state engineers not signing off on any contstruction work until lhe got the 1.5 million.
He doesn't get 1.5 million until he can account for the other 324 million misisng.

--convo died after name calling about states being broken and both agreeing that bush sucked ass---


Obama's working his ass off everywhere

And Clinton was one of those, too.

He signed in NDAA after saying he was going ot veto

Obama stopped the Keystone Pipeline.

He sent aid to Haiti the way Bush should have handled Katrina.

Fema sent money to our state as it should have. The governor pocketed it

And we elected him bakc in

In the argument for the state rights: it assumes that once it is put into effect he people would start paying attention to what their state is doing

and stop relying ont the governmetn to micromanage everything

Which is completely insane

--died--

U know the Republicans are trying to weasel out college students n minorities?

College used to be offordable. Without needing to take 6000 of loans to pay for it {At least per student}.
From what i have found out the government loans; Every time that they have increased the cost of college after the cap for student loan was increased.

Also, all those things you listed used to be handeld wtihout any real problems.. Just the governmetn started over reaching its bounds
and if nothing else for your sake

A lot of the stuff he wants done wont get done due to the due process

However, some major, very bennificial thigns can be accomplished

like privatizing environmental conservation?

cutting funding where it's needed?

State issue there

The state can decide how high or low it should have its standards

having to quit my job over sexual harassment instead of having the boss dealt with?

Paul: those who are sexually harassed should quit their jobs.

which doesn't work for the single mom trying to feed her kids.

ooh, which state... idaho, maybe... trying to pass laws banning single moms to protect the kids

link...

None to his book, "Freedom Under Seige." Srry

O, n he calls marriage purely religious

Anywho: It is assuming it is during a stabel enviorment. During his book he talks about well yeah title says it.
Anywho, he states int here that if a woman is being sexually harrassed she should quit and go to work for someoen else

As far as the gay marriage: Marriage to him is religious as it is to many, however the rightsg ranted by a marrage should be allowed for all people regardless of
who they are and does not be lieve the government has the right to dictate to all people what a relgion is.
Hwoever a law regarding what a gay couple can have in terms of benifits should be equal. Privateization of marriage or something is what he says.

I know he's not opressively anti-lgbt; is one thing I like about him, alongside contraception.

But he's also so pro-1st ammendment that hate speech could likely ring loud and proud

Obama, meanwhile, renewed anti-hate crime legislature

and expanded it to cover gender, orientation, etc

Sometimes, the states won't do what's necessary (though Vermont's way ahead with anti-frakking leg), and the feds HAVE to step in. It's why they're there.

O, n u know how he's against oil subsidies? (yay)

That doesn't include the many, many tax cuts folks like the Koch bros organize from their pet polluticians.

Final note: Paul doesn't consider education or health care gov-given rights, and as such would remove that support even faster than Romney.
Flawed as they are (despite recent attempts to change this), outright liquidating them removes an incredibly important safety net.

Finally, no candidate is perfect. Not Paul, not Obama, definitely not Romney or Santorum (yay, is gone). We just have to analyze the facts we
have and make the best pick we can, can't be the same for everyone.

Yay, anvillicious speech done. 'Night.

Anti Federalist
05-19-2012, 01:27 AM
gov-given rights,

And there is your problem.

James Madison
05-19-2012, 01:42 AM
How can you claim to be against corporations when the state is the most powerful corporation to have ever existed? It amazes me that some people are so mistrustful of big business yet see no problem giving government full authority over every facet of ther lives. I can avoid corporations by refusing to buy their products; everybody wins. I can't avoid government, and if I try they will send thugs/bullies (the police) to threaten me my family with arrest or worse. Once a tyranical government has been established you can't escape it; it cannot be avoided. Corporations, on the other hand, only have power so long as the public continues to buy their product. Unfortunately, giving the state unlimited power over our lives has now created an entity that serves as a buyer for products that would otherwise have no place in society. If government was kept as our Founders intended it to be, atomic weapons wouldn't exist, nor would predator drones capable of killing your family at the drop of a hat. Instead, we'd have fusion reactors powering the world. Tanzania would look just like New York City, but because of the state this technology has never been allowed to thrive. Hell, we'd probably be exploring other star systems, meeting other intelligent races, and answering the toughest questions since time began. Instead we have only the image of a boot stomping on the heads of would-be scientists, inventors, and pioneers. Have fun, humanity.

asainassporn
05-19-2012, 01:46 AM
But then again, what happens when the company is the only company supplying your needs. Food water electricity, or even your money. You can't boycot basic necessities.

Also how do you assure that the states will have the best interets at heart and aren't instead bought out by another corporation to be able to dump wherever they want?


And there is your problem.
This is a good friend. She is very reasonable, but again, has her own viewpoint on things. Just like we do ours. I'm trying to get answers to her few issues she had.. She might come to understand my distatste for Obama eventually, also.

James Madison
05-19-2012, 01:51 AM
[QUOTE]But then again, what happens when the company is the only company supplying your needs. Food water electricity, or even your money. You can't boycot basic necessities.

We already have this now government providing many of the basic necessities. In a free market, you will always have alternatives to the dominant brand.


Also how do you assure that the states will have the best interets at heart and aren't instead bought out by another corporation to be able to dump wherever they want?

You can't assure this, and that's why you don't give government the power to form these kinds of relationships.

asainassporn
05-19-2012, 01:55 AM
Okay. For her and my understanding. State vs government controlling this, where is the bennifit besides "state is smaller" her reaction to this was "So what??!" "U mean like Virginia blocking a gay judge?"

A picture she sent me:

"I am against government, but state government, and it is A-OK!"

She is a liberal obama ***. :/

James Madison
05-19-2012, 02:01 AM
State, as in, government itself. Not literal states.

asainassporn
05-19-2012, 02:03 AM
I'm sorry.. I don't follow you, James.

Exiled_LFOD
05-19-2012, 02:03 AM
I can't help but lulz at some threads and no I don't expect anyone to get that. It is just a personally amusing statement for my own self satisfaction reflecting on an observation that once upon a time an OP like that could have generated pages of replies in a few minutes.

Here is my suggestion, and keep in mind the only thing I know is that I don't know anything, so take anything I ever assert with a grain of salt. That said, take a site like this:

http://www.allexperts.com/

clone it, specialize it for liberty topics, and figure out a way to make it profitable.

James Madison
05-19-2012, 02:08 AM
I'm sorry.. I don't follow you, James.

The state is another term for government itself. Having a small federal government does you no good if the states are authoritarian. So, you keep all government small and leave the private sector to itself.

asainassporn
05-19-2012, 02:13 AM
Then the question arises about corporations making backroom deals and the such to coordinate prices with each other for maximum profit for both parties.

Difference between small government and no government, I suppose?

Carson
05-19-2012, 02:19 AM
I had a friend notice that I liked arguing and thought I might like being a lawyer.

One night we were aru... debating a subject and after quite a while he said, "Okay. Now you take my side for a while."


Sometime you may want to give it a try.

"Very late night conversation with a friend about ron paul ideas... She is very against it, and follows differnet areas than I do."


Then again you used the she word. I'm pretty sure I would help her win.

asainassporn
05-19-2012, 02:36 AM
Agreed. However, as I said. Very good friend. So it is always worth a shot. Also Carson, If you didn't realize, I've been trying to understand the socialist viewpoint she has, which is why I was questioning the sanity of the smaller government and having the states take up the slack formed from not having certain departments: education for example. Was hoping for something I could use.

Also I don't think she argued with the fiat money system. :)

Travlyr
05-19-2012, 02:40 AM
The state is another term for government itself. Having a small federal government does you no good if the states are authoritarian. So, you keep all government small and leave the private sector to itself.

Agreed.

In a Ron Paul world the people would be wealthy and the government would be poor because sound money savings accumulate while fiat money inflates away. In other words, as it is now, the government fiat money provides unlimited wealth and power to the government at the expense of the working people.

In a Ron Paul world there wouldn't be continuous wars. Ron Paul would seek the true enemy of America, get congressional approval to go to war, win the war, and bring the troops home.

In a Ron Paul world people would not spend their lives in jail for growing plants, not paying taxes, or refusing to obey. People would go to jail for rape, assault, theft, or some other violent crime.

RonPaulFlix.com

Carson
05-19-2012, 03:13 AM
Agreed. However, as I said. Very good friend. So it is always worth a shot. Also Carson, If you didn't realize, I've been trying to understand the socialist viewpoint she has, which is why I was questioning the sanity of the smaller government and having the states take up the slack formed from not having certain departments: education for example. Was hoping for something I could use.

Also I don't think she argued with the fiat money system. :)

My Mom used to tell me that the thing that always brought down socialism was that if everyone got an equal share of everything, "Why work hard?"


Even though we live under a stealth, back-door, socialism and people aren't even aware of it, the, "Why work hard?" has gotten many of us. Even business models that have stood the centuries are failing to be able to keep up with the back door spending.

Still. In the sixties there were people that explored socialism. Are you sure winning is winning an argument? I'm only half prejudice. I like their women.

Then again there is always the making up.

Anti Federalist
05-19-2012, 11:45 AM
This is a good friend. She is very reasonable, but again, has her own viewpoint on things. Just like we do ours. I'm trying to get answers to her few issues she had.. She might come to understand my distatste for Obama eventually, also.

Well, I understand all that.

My point in picking out those three words that she wrote, was to indicate how upside down her thinking is.

Before you do anything, you have to convince her that rights do not come from the government, they are innate and natural by virtue of you being born a human being and that the only legitimate purpose of any government is to protect those rights.

College tuition, free abortions and government paid apartments are not rights, they are bars in a gilded cage.