Americans Elect R.I.P.

[svf]

Statement just released. What happens to their ballot line where they have access? Blank I guess... What a waste of time and money...!

http://www.americanselect.org/news/5-2012/release


There is a desire among Delegates and millions of Americans who have supported Americans Elect to see a credible candidate emerge from this process.

However, the rules, as developed in consultation with the Americans Elect Delegates, are clear. As of this week, no candidate achieved the national support threshold required to enter the Americans Elect Online Convention in June. The primary process for the Americans Elect nomination has come to an end.

Americans Elect, from the outset, has been a rules-based process, with the rules publicly available and open to debate by the Delegates. Our key priorities have been to: 1) honor the trust Americans Elect has built with the Delegates and American public; 2) require candidates to earn the nomination by building support among the Americans Elect Delegate community and American voters; and 3) create a basis for a solid future for the Americans Elect movement.

This decision honors these priorities.

Through the efforts of thousands of staffers, volunteers, and leadership, Americans Elect has achieved its operational goals, including:
•Creating a pathway for nationwide ballot access for a balanced presidential ticket unaffiliated with the nominating process of either major party to compete in the 2012 race;
•Building the technological platform for the first nonpartisan secure national online primary at AmericansElect.org;
•Attracting a significant base of more than 4 million supporters, including Delegates, petition signers and volunteers;
•Educating the national and local media on the Americans Elect mission; and
•Finishing an extensive candidate briefing program involving more than 100 potential candidates.

As always, we thank everyone who has helped build this organization and are grateful for the work, efforts, and trust so many people have placed in Americans Elect. We are continuing the Americans Elect mission of creating more choice in our political system, giving candidates unaffiliated with the nominating process of either major party an authentic way to run for office and giving the American people a greater voice in our political process.

[SpiritOf1776_J4]

I guess what people were saying about this being a scam to collect names and try to invalidate delegates and voters in other parties is true. At least, it seems like it.

It's chilling while declaring how grassroots it is, how authoritian that came down from the top.

[BenIsForRon]

That is totally fucked, I wonder what those hundreds of volunteers think of this decision? I'm guessing they're not too pleased, which is why the first lined gives a half-assed recognition of their position. Sounds to me like the CEO didn't like Buddy Roemer or Rocky Anderson enough.

[SpiritOf1776_J4]

That is totally fucked, I wonder what those hundreds of volunteers think of this decision? I'm guessing they're not too pleased, which is why the first lined gives a half-assed recognition of their position. Sounds to me like the CEO didn't like Buddy Roemer or Rocky Anderson enough.

Sinc they didn't ask for it, if they are organized, they can probably take it back. Dual convention fights have occured all the time in history. Just have them declare the decision is invalid, and hold it anyway.

But they probably are not organized. A lot of the petition gathering etc seems just to have been paid for, not grassroots at all.

On the other hand, if you know some liberty minded people in that organization, you can steal it away from the bankers that created it. Hold your own convention and give the names to the states that have the ballot access that they won.

[RDM]

GOOD. I'm glad this CFR/Bilderberg scam is finally done. I was tired of seeing all the boneheads posting this crap on this forum.

[Slacker]

Good no more stupid threads about this god damn Jon Huntsman vehicle.

[Revolution9]

That is totally fucked, I wonder what those hundreds of volunteers think of this decision? I'm guessing they're not too pleased, which is why the first lined gives a half-assed recognition of their position. Sounds to me like the CEO didn't like Buddy Roemer or Rocky Anderson enough.

When you work for the Rothchild's you can expect to be shitcanned the moment your usefulness is up.

HTH
Rev9

[Dave_C]

It was probably their smartest call. Even though they have amassed a large mailing list, it is a list of a massive herd of cats that does not trust them but would gladly use them as a vehicle. If they tried to adjust their rules and name a candidate it could have been fatal to a future attempt. They will certainly go back to the drawing board having learned a great deal and make another run at it. Remain skeptical of this bunch.

[angelatc]

\I'll never b convinced we didn't waste an incredible opportunity to break free of the two party system. `AE wasn't a party. Paul has always said that running third party was too hard because it was too hard to get ballot access. THey paid for that all that, and we wouldn't take the gift. We deserve everything we are going to get in this election.

[Crystallas]

In your best Buddy Roemer voice, "AWWW SHUCKS!".

[Paulistinian]

Americans Elect only existed as a contingency plan if Paul got the nomination. Now that the campaign is pulling a rope-a-dope on the bankers, establishment and media, these parties that think Paul has been defeated no longer need AE....

[mosquitobite]

Americans Elect only existed as a contingency plan if Paul got the nomination. Now that the campaign is pulling a rope-a-dope on the bankers, establishment and media, these parties that think Paul has been defeated no longer need AE....

THIS!!

My gosh people are so gullible sometimes!!

Just like Trump still plans to run if Paul gets the nom.

[kuckfeynes]

Follow the money... This was always an insurance policy against an establishment takeover.

[Travlyr]

When you work for the Rothchild's you can expect to be shitcanned the moment your usefulness is up.

HTH
Rev9
Truer words have never been spoken. Romney supporters, and Federal Reserve System supporters, will learn this lesson. When your usefulness is done, then so are you.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J9papNPAJQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J9papNPAJQ

[JasonM]

Running 3rd party is a waste of time and effort anyways. The Libertarians would be so much more effective if they disbanded and integrated into the Republican party instead as a "faction". But people are shortsighted idiots not to see it.

[SpiritOf1776_J4]

Running 3rd party is a waste of time and effort anyways. The Libertarians would be so much more effective if they disbanded and integrated into the Republican party instead as a "faction". But people are shortsighted idiots not to see it.

They serve to show how crooked the system is to begin with, that the elections and ballots really aren't free.

[BenIsForRon]

You know what sucks, this kind of national, idealistic effort only seems possible with hedge fund size donors. What average libertarian is going to donate to something that might elect a progressive, and vice-versa. At the same time, there are millions of Americans who would vote for a libertarian/progressive split ticket. I know I would.

What really makes me suspicious is the fact that Americans Elect had so much funding, yet couldn't put together a decent website.

Here's a great article laying out the reasons it couldn't catch on. Summary is, they had no idea how to make a decent website, and didn't seem to care to.

[SpiritOf1776_J4]

You know what sucks, this kind of national, idealistic effort only seems possible with hedge fund size donors. What average libertarian is going to donate to something that might elect a progressive, and vice-versa. At the same time, there are millions of Americans who would vote for a libertarian/progressive split ticket. I know I would. .

Well, it was baroness Rothschild that funded it if you didn't know.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/19/lynn-de-rothschild-jon-huntsman_n_1159189.html

[paulbot24]

The CFR will be back in 2016. The packaging on this latest attempt is psychotically brilliant. This idea is the scariest and the most fundamentally loathsome one I have ever read. I think I got PTSD after reading the names on its Board of Directors. They'll be back. Be ready and always be informed.

[JasonM]

Well, it was baroness Rothschild that funded it if you didn't know.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/19/lynn-de-rothschild-jon-huntsman_n_1159189.html

It gets even better...all funds go directly back to the rich founders:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeedpolitics/americans-elect-is-raising-money-to-repay-its-mill

The crooks are actually making money off this shit!

[SpiritOf1776_J4]

Cheap.

[Agorism]

Those rules are nonsense. If the candidate had been Ron Paul for the GOP, I guarantee they would have fielded someone against him.

[puppetmaster]

What should happen is a super pac does this in 2016. For us

[puppetmaster]

\I'll never b convinced we didn't waste an incredible opportunity to break free of the two party system. `AE wasn't a party. Paul has always said that running third party was too hard because it was too hard to get ballot access. THey paid for that all that, and we wouldn't take the gift. We deserve everything we are going to get in this election.
whatever that is your opinion...the facts tell a different tale

[JasonM]

Indeed, running 3rd party is a waste. Ron Paul already tried it once and it failed miserably. Couldn't even get 5% of the vote. Leaving the Republicans after what Reagan failed to deliver in promises was a mistake that cost him dearly. His absence in politics resulted in the dumb newsletters going racist on him, giving further ammo to his political enemies in the future. If he had just stayed in and tried to change things instead of stomping out of the party in anger after Reagan betrayed his own principles, he could have had a chance against the first Bush instead in the primaries. Or he could have been the Bob Dole in 96, or tried again in 2000.

Future liberty candidates would do well to learn from Ron Paul's early mistakes.

[idiom]

Still. We should have been the De Facto winner just with the users on this board.

[JasonM]

Still. We should have been the De Facto winner just with the users on this board.

I think half the users on this board are delegates anyways. :P

[airborne373]

lol .... So we are not abandoning a working strategy for Americans Elect. LMAO.

What I really question is people on this forum who think the party system is bad but adding an additional party will fix everything. Why not kick the Trotskyite Neo-Cons out of the Republican Party and take over the existing structure of money and power? Oh yeah, that is what is happening. So It really makes me question the motive of the "third party" promoters.

If you don't like the Republican Party .... change it.

[airborne373]

I think half the users on this board are delegates anyways. :P


Delegates to a phantom party with little recognition and no power.

[Aratus]

In your best Buddy Roemer voice, "AWWW SHUCKS!".

i like Buddy Roemer and i voted for Ross Perot. I may vote for Gary Johnson at this rate. When
Mike Gravel talked about how to go about having an internet democracy i thought of him upon
hearing about EA so many months back. i guess they are as serious about a 3rd party run as was
Donald Trump. if this all was done only to generate press releases then they succeded past their
wildest dreams in terms of publicity. if they were serious, they are fools. i indeed like Buddy Roemer.

[jcarcinogen]

Those rules are nonsense. If the candidate had been Ron Paul for the GOP, I guarantee they would have fielded someone against him.

Yep. If Paul was in the lead tight now Trump or some neocon would be promoted. I always felt thats what this was all about.

[The Free Hornet]

Running 3rd party is a waste of time and effort anyways. The Libertarians would be so much more effective if they disbanded and integrated into the Republican party instead as a "faction". But people are shortsighted idiots not to see it.

AFAIK, Ron Paul is STILL a member of the Libertarian Party (based on sources and at least one interview I remember):

http://www.il.lp.org/join/ron_paul.php
http://lptexas.org/node/89

So it is fine to do both especially if you are comfortable being "out" as a voluntaryist or libertarian.

If I was in the LP organization - I am not - the Ron Paul developement would be exciting and no reason to back down. Maybe they are working the Republican take over too.

[Peace&Freedom]

Indeed, running 3rd party is a waste. Ron Paul already tried it once and it failed miserably. Couldn't even get 5% of the vote. Leaving the Republicans after what Reagan failed to deliver in promises was a mistake that cost him dearly. His absence in politics resulted in the dumb newsletters going racist on him, giving further ammo to his political enemies in the future. If he had just stayed in and tried to change things instead of stomping out of the party in anger after Reagan betrayed his own principles, he could have had a chance against the first Bush instead in the primaries. Or he could have been the Bob Dole in 96, or tried again in 2000.

Future liberty candidates would do well to learn from Ron Paul's early mistakes.

Same old two-party nonsense. The jury is still out as to whether NOT running 3rd party is a waste. Conservatives and libertarians in both major parties haven't even been able to reverse 5% off the welfare state, or any any aspect of the warfare state in eight decades. I call wasting time trying to make reforms within two major parties bought and paid for by the bankster and military establishment the actual mistake. At least the LP 'failed' electorally while keeping their principles. Republicans have failed, and keep failing legislatively, while losing their principles.

The entire establishment was locked in behind Bush in 1988, and there was no internet then to counter and expose them, so Paul would have had no chance. Paul thought about running in '92 against Bush, but stepped aside when Pat Buchanan decided to run. If Paul had stayed in office through the late '80's and early '90's he would have still been Dr. No, plugging away without the media ever taking him seriously, and would have been vote rigged to defeat by the same Dole machine in '96 than railroaded Buchanan. Ditto with the W. machine in 2000.

Piecemeal change is not sufficient to stop an entire statist order. Future liberty candidates would do well to learn from this that the movement needs to take over the whole establishment, not trust the elite-controlled GOP to yield to meaningful reform.

[JasonM]

Same old two-party nonsense. The jury is still out as to whether NOT running 3rd party is a waste. Conservatives and libertarians in both major parties haven't even been able to reverse 5% off the welfare state, or any any aspect of the warfare state in eight decades. I call wasting time trying to make reforms within two major parties bought and paid for by the bankster and military establishment the actual mistake. At least the LP 'failed' electorally while keeping their principles. Republicans have failed, and keep failing legislatively, while losing their principles.

The entire establishment was locked in behind Bush in 1988, and there was no internet then to counter and expose them, so Paul would have had no chance. Paul thought about running in '92 against Bush, but stepped aside when Pat Buchanan decided to run. If Paul had stayed in office through the late '80's and early '90's he would have still been Dr. No, plugging away without the media ever taking him seriously, and would have been vote rigged to defeat by the same Dole machine in '96 than railroaded Buchanan. Ditto with the W. machine in 2000.

Piecemeal change is not sufficient to stop an entire statist order. Future liberty candidates would do well to learn from this that the movement needs to take over the whole establishment, not trust the elite-controlled GOP to yield to meaningful reform.

Of course, which is why you need to take over the mechanisms that allow these things to happen in the first place. Even if he lost, he would have gained greater insight into the process than he did. Similarly, he would have had greater oversight of his newsletters, and then that would have never come back to dog him for the rest of his life.

But ultimately you're going to run into the same problems running 3rd party as you are running for a major party. You won't just have one but TWO major parties against you and you'll either be forced to compromise on your core ideals or be marginalized.

And if special interests managed to buy off the other 2 parties, whose to say members of your own 3rd party won't start being bought off if you start experiencing some real successes?

It's like you said, the movement needs to take over the whole establishment. That doesn't just include the two major parties. It includes getting a number of large special interest groups such as the NRA in our corner as well. It includes winning over a portion of the rich and powerful to the cause of liberty as well, or becoming rich yourself.

And once we get that foot hold, we use it to groom future leaders and partners by giving them a helping hand in our own power structure.

But this is much bigger than simply winning elections. It's playing and winning the faction game ourselves. =/

[juvanya]

Good. The whole purpose of this was in case Ron Paul won, Romney could still be nominated. Since that didnt happen, it is being folded.

[ZakCarter]

To those who would say a from the grassroots 3rd party push is damaging our efforts to remake the GOP, I say this strengthens our case for Ron Paul to be the GOP nominee, and a 3rd party push serves as a shot across the establishments bow. Ron Paul OR ELSE.

And I'm not saying AE was grassroots - but other options are available and should be looked at. (ala Montana and Louisiana 2008) I also think had Ron Paul been offered the top spot on the AE ticket, it would have made for an explosive amount of press when he turned it down.

[JasonM]

To those who would say a from the grassroots 3rd party push is damaging our efforts to remake the GOP, I say this strengthens our case for Ron Paul to be the GOP nominee, and a 3rd party push serves as a shot across the establishments bow. Ron Paul OR ELSE.


It won't necessarily be taken that way. I think there is a perception by some that Ron Paul's votes did not come from normal Republicans but from the vast black hole that is the non-voting or 3rd party voting population. While they would like us to help them win without giving anything meaningful back, not having us isn't a game changer with them.

While we would definitely feel that we are all like "Ron Paul or bust", it wouldn't be a bad idea to actually network with some of the local GOP folks in the area you live in instead of burning all the bridges. If you go and show that you have something to offer them and find things you have in common with, then people will eventually see what you're like and maybe quietly do a bit of more in-depth research on their own without telling anyone. The idea is to ultimately run for some position of leadership somewhere in the party or local government, and move up from there. It's all about LEADERSHIP, and we need to have plenty of leaders in training.

Going back to actively supporting 3rd parties and being involved in 3rd party internal processes only burns bridges with the local GOP. It's all about those Contacts, Connections, and especially Concepts. We got the Concepts part down, we just need to develop those contacts and connections and make them even better.

[juvanya]

And I'm not saying AE was grassroots - but other options are available and should be looked at. (ala Montana and Louisiana 2008) I also think had Ron Paul been offered the top spot on the AE ticket, it would have made for an explosive amount of press when he turned it down.We can and should do this again, completely on our own, after things have settled in that Romney is the nominee. He still needs like 450 delegates.

I for one am writing in Ron Paul unless Gary Johnson polls double digits, and even then...

[seawolf]

At least the Ron Paul should run as a Third Party Faction is now dead. AE was the last avenue for such a third party try and it was by far the worst road to go.

Ron Paul's 2012 Presidential Campaign will end in Tampa, FL in August one way or the other, PERIOD!!!

[airborne373]

To those who would say a from the grassroots 3rd party push is damaging our efforts to remake the GOP, I say this strengthens our case for Ron Paul to be the GOP nominee, and a 3rd party push serves as a shot across the establishments bow. Ron Paul OR ELSE.

I must disagree with your metaphor. Using the navy metaphor third parties are like dinghies and when a dinghy puts a shot across the bow of an aircraft carrier (Republican & Dem Parties) the people on the aircraft carrier raise a cocktail in their hands and laugh at the spectacle. But when the people in the dinghy board the aircraft carrier and place the former crew in the dingy well that is FULL SPECTRUM DOMINANCE.

Let loose of you romantic vision of David slaying the evil Goliath. The GOP is a THING, not a person it has no feeling, memories or intentions. The Republican Party is given substance by its members. Change party leadership and you change the party.

Hating the Republican Party is like hating a rock or the wind.

[Peace&Freedom]

At least the Ron Paul should run as a Third Party Faction is now dead. AE was the last avenue for such a third party try and it was by far the worst road to go.

Ron Paul's 2012 Presidential Campaign will end in Tampa, FL in August one way or the other, PERIOD!!!

A period followed by the next sentence: AFTER Tampa, Paul can run 3rd party by getting Johnson's cooperation in switching places on the LP line. The run third party faction is very much alive, and if the GOP leadership and Romney continue to throw out the rules, send 'shadow' slates to Tampa, etc., it will at least show the "do it through the GOP" route is the real dead approach.

[FrankRep]

The CFR will be back in 2016.

The CFR is in power right now.


Obama Picks Come From Same Old CFR Roster
26 November 2008
http://thenewamerican.com/usnews/politics/item/2474-obama-picks-come-from-same-old-cfr-roster

[JasonM]

A period followed by the next sentence: AFTER Tampa, Paul can run 3rd party by getting Johnson's cooperation in switching places on the LP line. The run third party faction is very much alive, and if the GOP leadership and Romney continue to throw out the rules, send 'shadow' slates to Tampa, etc., it will at least show the "do it through the GOP" route is the real dead approach.

Why not just throw your support behind Johnson then? Aren't the 2 practically identical in beliefs anyways? Plus Johnson wouldn't be subject to all those sore loser laws.

Tell you what, Paul didn't run 3rd party last time, and Paul won't run this time.

After Tampa, our efforts are better aimed at electing more Ron Paul Republicans into office than focusing on futile and dreamy 3rd party runs.

If Theodore Roosevelt, a 2-term president, couldn't win as part of the Bull-Moose party, then it goes to show that it can't be done unless some big money interests start getting involved. Remember, it takes a billionaire to even get 10% of the vote, or someone with tons of name recognition like a 2 term former president to get 27% of the vote, so it will take some mighty big super PACs with deep pockets (and I mean DEEEEP pockets, like $1 billion+ as well as a fair share of media coverage and grassroots support) to stand a chance.

So far, we only have a couple rich guys in our corner.

[Krzysztof Lesiak]

Time to get behind writing-in Ron Paul (or getting him on the ballot where we can!)

[Peace&Freedom]

Why not just throw your support behind Johnson then? Aren't the 2 practically identical in beliefs anyways? Plus Johnson wouldn't be subject to all those sore loser laws.

Tell you what, Paul didn't run 3rd party last time, and Paul won't run this time.

After Tampa, our efforts are better aimed at electing more Ron Paul Republicans into office than focusing on futile and dreamy 3rd party runs.

If Theodore Roosevelt, a 2-term president, couldn't win as part of the Bull-Moose party, then it goes to show that it can't be done unless some big money interests start getting involved. Remember, it takes a billionaire to even get 10% of the vote, or someone with tons of name recognition like a 2 term former president to get 27% of the vote, so it will take some mighty big super PACs with deep pockets (and I mean DEEEEP pockets, like $1 billion+ as well as a fair share of media coverage and grassroots support) to stand a chance.

So far, we only have a couple rich guys in our corner.

Paul is better than Johnson on the Fed, the wars, civil liberties, the Constitution, taxes, name recognition, fundraising ability, polling versus Romney and Obama, etc. Tell you what, Paul running third party is still the better idea, whatever he decides to do. Constantly pre-marginalizing the prospect of a 3rd party run as 'dreamy' ignores the current reality that with Paul we have a nationally known and grassroots based candidate, whose network and organization support makes it likely to bypass the money and media strangleholds.

The reason deep money has been needed in the past for 3rd party runs has been to make up for lack of national exposure (aka, media blackouts) or support for the candidate. This has been the missing element in all the previous third party runs--we should not squander a chance to see what a solid candidate with fervent national support can do this November. It has been the enormous labor and time intensive attempts to run Paul within the corrupt GOP system that has constituted the main futile distraction. The liberty movement has overrun the pot it has grown in during recent GOP primary cycles, and needs to now to flourish in deeper ground by taking over the whole political spectrum. Otherwise it will die for lack of ground to stretch out its roots.

[juvanya]

I must disagree with your metaphor. Using the navy metaphor third parties are like dinghies and when a dinghy puts a shot across the bow of an aircraft carrier (Republican & Dem Parties) the people on the aircraft carrier raise a cocktail in their hands and laugh at the spectacle. But when the people in the dinghy board the aircraft carrier and place the former crew in the dingy well that is FULL SPECTRUM DOMINANCE.

Let loose of you romantic vision of David slaying the evil Goliath. The GOP is a THING, not a person it has no feeling, memories or intentions. The Republican Party is given substance by its members. Change party leadership and you change the party.

Hating the Republican Party is like hating a rock or the wind.Exactly and good point on the last bit.


A period followed by the next sentence: AFTER Tampa, Paul can run 3rd party by getting Johnson's cooperation in switching places on the LP line. The run third party faction is very much alive, and if the GOP leadership and Romney continue to throw out the rules, send 'shadow' slates to Tampa, etc., it will at least show the "do it through the GOP" route is the real dead approach.Johnson said he would bail if Ron asked him too, but this will accomplish bo diddly, so STOP PUSHING IT. IF I keep hearing this third party crap, and he actually does it, Im going to campaign for Romney just to spite you all. IT. IS. NEVER. EVER. GOING. TO. WORK.


Why not just throw your support behind Johnson then? Aren't the 2 practically identical in beliefs anyways? Plus Johnson wouldn't be subject to all those sore loser laws.Not quite. Johnson was ok with Libya.


After Tampa, our efforts are better aimed at electing more Ron Paul Republicans into office than focusing on futile and dreamy 3rd party runs.This


If Theodore Roosevelt, a 2-term president, couldn't win as part of the Bull-Moose party, then it goes to show that it can't be done


Time to get behind writing-in Ron Paul (or getting him on the ballot where we can!)Support


The reason deep money has been needed in the past for 3rd party runs has been to make up for lack of national exposure (aka, media blackouts)Oh yea, third party Ron Paul can totally bust thru that...:rolleyes:

[Galileo Galilei]

This was created because the NWO feared Ron Paul might win the GOP nomination. In that case, they would run another candidate to split the vote and throw the election to Obama.

[JasonM]

Paul is better than Johnson on the Fed, the wars, civil liberties, the Constitution, taxes, name recognition, fundraising ability, polling versus Romney and Obama, etc. Tell you what, Paul running third party is still the better idea, whatever he decides to do. Constantly pre-marginalizing the prospect of a 3rd party run as 'dreamy' ignores the current reality that with Paul we have a nationally known and grassroots based candidate, whose network and organization support makes it likely to bypass the money and media strangleholds.

The reason deep money has been needed in the past for 3rd party runs has been to make up for lack of national exposure (aka, media blackouts) or support for the candidate. This has been the missing element in all the previous third party runs--we should not squander a chance to see what a solid candidate with fervent national support can do this November. It has been the enormous labor and time intensive attempts to run Paul within the corrupt GOP system that has constituted the main futile distraction. The liberty movement has overrun the pot it has grown in during recent GOP primary cycles, and needs to now to flourish in deeper ground by taking over the whole political spectrum. Otherwise it will die for lack of ground to stretch out its roots.

And what of the sore loser laws Ron Paul himself alludes to? And if he does run 3rd party and get 5-10% of the vote, it will be mostly conservatives and indies who will vote for him, which mostly sucks the air out of the Republicans and gives Fox news an excuse to demonize him AND his son. Right now, the press is calling Rand a "formidable force", which is far more than they ever did about Ron Paul (at least according to Salon.com).

http://www.salon.com/2010/05/17/rand_paul_president_2012/