What Kind Of Campaign Is This?

[BKom]

Why are we the only presidential campaign in history that continually forces its backers to read tea leaves. Either Ron is in or he is out. Either the country is headed for problems and he's the man to fix them, or he's not.

We have been watching Ron's mealy mouthed statements on whether he's in this race to win since the very beginning. No other supporters have been forced to "read between the lines" or "fill in the blanks" or interpret what their darn candidate says every time he opens his mouth.

And any other campaign that had Jesse Benton as its spokesman would have fired him months ago. Actually, four years ago. But that isn't what Ron does. He surrounds himself with people who don't appear to want him to be president. And that says a whole lot about Ron.

I have supported Ron for president three times now, beginning in 1988. I will not support Rand. So, I have little to look forward to politically. This is disturbing.

[No1butPaul]

I hope this hasn't been about Rand because he does not have my support. I hear he's kissing some rings and taking a trip to Israel soon.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-CU7BdRzfiNE/TyLlHGzNI-I/AAAAAAAAGFg/K8ZO359pdfY/s1600/Obama+in+Israel.jpg

[BKom]

Israel is a great place. But yes, this apparently had been about Rand. Think about that when Ron throws the OK delegation under the bus. Those people put up with a whole lot to try and get Ron delegates by the rules. And Ron has already thrown them under the bus.

I have to tell you that I'm really sick of this. Many of us have gone to great lengths to support Ron. I swore after last time that I wasn't going to bother this time, then I allowed myself to get sucked back in. Very disappointing.

[No1butPaul]

Israel is a great place. But yes, this apparently had been about Rand. Think about that when Ron throws the OK delegation under the bus. Those people put up with a whole lot to try and get Ron delegates by the rules. And Ron has already thrown them under the bus.

I have to tell you that I'm really sick of this. Many of us have gone to great lengths to support Ron. I swore after last time that I wasn't going to bother this time, then I allowed myself to get sucked back in. Very disappointing.

Just to be clear, crystal clear, this is not about Israel. Israel is just another ring-kissing ... being a team player, yada yada. Rand does not share his fathers ethics and principles.

[WesSeid]

Rand does not share his fathers ethics and principles.

Maybe we won't have to read tea leaves then, and maybe Rand will actually criticize Romney then.

[LibertyEagle]

Just to be clear, crystal clear, this is not about Israel. Israel is just another ring-kissing ... being a team player, yada yada. Rand does not share his fathers ethics and principles.

Just to be clear, crystal clear, you don't know at this point. So how about stop making accusations until you do?

[lib3rtarian]

Why are we the only presidential campaign in history that continually forces its backers to read tea leaves. Either Ron is in or he is out. Either the country is headed for problems and he's the man to fix them, or he's not.

We have been watching Ron's mealy mouthed statements on whether he's in this race to win since the very beginning. No other supporters have been forced to "read between the lines" or "fill in the blanks" or interpret what their darn candidate says every time he opens his mouth.

And any other campaign that had Jesse Benton as its spokesman would have fired him months ago. Actually, four years ago. But that isn't what Ron does. He surrounds himself with people who don't appear to want him to be president. And that says a whole lot about Ron.

I have supported Ron for president three times now, beginning in 1988. I will not support a pandering bigot like Rand. So, I have little to look forward to politically. This is disturbing.

This is the kind of campaign where a bunch of people with ulterior political ambitions (Benton, Wead etc) tries to exploit the grassroots' passion and love for an ideological pure, honest guy (Ron), to further their own agendas.

I do not believe that Ron purposefully threw the OK supporters under the bus. Ron is on the move and gets his information from Benton, Tate and Wead. I fully suspect they are feeding him wrong info about the grassroots.

[MrDauven]

Some of you have to stop whining and work harder.
The liberty movement has always been about fighting back the system, and will always be like that.

Only because the campaign seems to want to end it does not mean there have to be one billion posts about people crying that the personification of our movement is 'giving up'.
Keep fighting, keep working, even if it is a lost battle. Just stop whining and wasting your time on crying on the internet and get out there and spread the message.

[No1butPaul]

Just to be clear, crystal clear, you don't know at this point. So how about stop making accusations until you do?

Excuse me?


"Business Insider has learned that Sen. Paul has even been approached about a possible trip to Israel with Christian activist David Lane, a conservative kingmaker whose "Pastor Policy Briefings" helped launch Mike Huckabee's political star in 2008."

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2012-05-03/politics/31540200_1_rand-paul-ron-paul-revolution-kentucky-senator

You wanna try again?

ADD:
"Rand Paul is going to inherit his dad's political assets — he's going to be very formidable," Lane told Business Insider. "Structurally, there is something that is happening inside the state Republican parties that will have to be dealt with politically.""

Not inheriting any of my assets!

[RabbitMan]

So what if Ron/Rand/whomever is all we wanted? The guy is like 76-yearsold! Let's take the Republican Party back, and Let's become the leaders that inspire!

[Indy Vidual]

Maybe we won't have to read tea leaves then, and maybe Rand will actually criticize Romney then.


Just to be clear, crystal clear, you don't know at this point. So how about stop making accusations until you do?

+rep for both

[Titus]

Look, it has always been a long battle. I doubt anyone here expects the Democrats and Republicans to roll-over because we said so. No. We have a long battle. It takes time. We are fighting for our rights (even though we don't always agree what rights should be protected). Any rights movement has taken time. Yeah, it's a hard long shot battle to get Ron into office in 2012. We still have the grassroots starting to build. Without Ron Paul, I never would have considered running for office. Now I'm considering it in a few years, when my law school debt is in order.

The movement is not Ron Paul. It is us. It is each and every one of us. We have made a huge step and put a chink in the armor. We need to harness that.

[FSP-Rebel]

Excuse me?


"Business Insider has learned that Sen. Paul has even been approached about a possible trip to Israel with Christian activist David Lane, a conservative kingmaker whose "Pastor Policy Briefings" helped launch Mike Huckabee's political star in 2008."

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2012-05-03/politics/31540200_1_rand-paul-ron-paul-revolution-kentucky-senator

You wanna try again?

ADD:
"Rand Paul is going to inherit his dad's political assets — he's going to be very formidable," Lane told Business Insider. "Structurally, there is something that is happening inside the state Republican parties that will have to be dealt with politically.""

Not inheriting any of my assets!
:rolleyes: Rand is smart enough to play their Israel game and get his evangelical traction going for when he needs it. Fact is, he's never caved on NDAA or other civil liberty issues nor has he spoken in favor of giving Israel the proverbial blank check. I swear some people read everything at face value. Ron has more integrity and honor than to stiff us with Rand if he knew him to be a sellout of sorts. Get real!

[Bastiat's The Law]

So what if Ron/Rand/whomever is all we wanted? The guy is like 76-yearsold! Let's take the Republican Party back, and Let's become the leaders that inspire!

+1776

We've come a long way! Let's continue to reform the Republican party!

[sailingaway]

Israel is a great place. But yes, this apparently had been about Rand. Think about that when Ron throws the OK delegation under the bus. Those people put up with a whole lot to try and get Ron delegates by the rules. And Ron has already thrown them under the bus.

I have to tell you that I'm really sick of this. Many of us have gone to great lengths to support Ron. I swore after last time that I wasn't going to bother this time, then I allowed myself to get sucked back in. Very disappointing.

I don't think Ron knows what happened in OK. Whenever we have been unfairly attacked Ron has had our back in the media. I think people who want to move on are using the 'disturbances' and the effect that (not knowing the facts) has on Ron feeling responsible, to shift into cruising gear, to conserve for the next campaign. I don't think it is Ron's idea. I think he is wary enough of any signs of pride in himself to the point where he bends over backwards to not make this about him.

In fact, the LACK of defense of us in OK is what makes me think Ron doesn't know.

I think it is Ron being thrown under the bus, honestly. It is late in the campaign, the odds are long, and Ron's overwhelming sense of duty to everyone else leaves him open to that.

[No1butPaul]

:rolleyes: Rand is smart enough to play their Israel game and get his evangelical traction going for when he needs it. Fact is, he's never caved on NDAA or other civil liberty issues nor has he spoken in favor of giving Israel the proverbial blank check. I swear some people read everything at face value. Ron has more integrity and honor than to stiff us with Rand if he knew him to be a sellout of sorts. Get real!

It is a mistake for anyone to think they can deliver our votes (as a group) to anyone - Romney, Rand or otherwise. I've been told I am an individual.

[kuckfeynes]

So don't support Rand then. If you're right (which is extremely premature to say) can't say we didn't see it coming. What kind of father would not think of the implications of his actions on his son's future? Ron didn't choose the revolution, the revolution chose him. He owes us nothing. That doesn't mean you have to go back to apathy. Find a candidate more pure than Rand and support him/her...

[Rocco]

It's really insane, these people are beyond ridiculous. The problem is, despite all their criticism of the media, they believe what ever the media tells them. That Rand is like Ron but "not crazy", and they then hear him attacking Obama and big spending and they think he's a mainstream republican, and it's comical. If you actually look at his voting record he is the single most consistent voice for liberty in congress right now (in terms of level of impact and consistency)


:rolleyes: Rand is smart enough to play their Israel game and get his evangelical traction going for when he needs it. Fact is, he's never caved on NDAA or other civil liberty issues nor has he spoken in favor of giving Israel the proverbial blank check. I swear some people read everything at face value. Ron has more integrity and honor than to stiff us with Rand if he knew him to be a sellout of sorts. Get real!

[V3n]

Reading 'tea leaves'? Ron Paul is the most honest politician to exist in this country for centuries!

Even now he's in the middle of a firestorm, from his own supporters, for his honesty in telling us about the campaign delegate strategy (not advertising in Primary states) and his honesty in discussing the delegate count.

Any visions of 'tea leaves' we see out of this is from our own conspiratorially leaning bend. He's laid everything on the line, all out for everyone to see, he always has.

[69360]

It's a low budget campaign with extremely individualistic supporters. It is what it is.

[sailingaway]

It's really insane, these people are beyond ridiculous. The problem is, despite all their criticism of the media, they believe what ever the media tells them. That Rand is like Ron but "not crazy", and they then hear him attacking Obama and big spending and they think he's a mainstream republican, and it's comical. If you actually look at his voting record he is the single most consistent voice for liberty in congress right now (in terms of level of impact and consistency)

He is not as consistent as Ron. He is a Senator so he has different procedural possibilities, but there is no way you can say he is as consistent as Ron. You can argue he is going to be more effective as a legislator, because he is there to pass laws, not set an example and inspire, but not that he is more consistent.

[Matthanuf06]

:rolleyes: Rand is smart enough to play their Israel game and get his evangelical traction going for when he needs it. Fact is, he's never caved on NDAA or other civil liberty issues nor has he spoken in favor of giving Israel the proverbial blank check. I swear some people read everything at face value. Ron has more integrity and honor than to stiff us with Rand if he knew him to be a sellout of sorts. Get real!

Exactly. Some people don't seem to understand how politics work. The fact is even some of Paul's biggest supporters have disagreements. Liberty can mean something a little different to all of us.

That's just within the Paul group.

To win big elections you need voters. You have to do some convincing and some compromising. Rand understands that.

Honestly I'm scared to think what many folks here actually thought RP could accomplish if he became POTUS? The libertarian wing would still be a serious minority in the other branches of govt. Ron would have had to compromise in order to get anything done. He wouldn't be elected king-maker.

The issue isn't that the POTuS has too much power, it's that a good chunk of the nation is brainwashed enough to go along with it.

[pen_thief]

:rolleyes: Rand is smart enough to play their Israel game and get his evangelical traction going for when he needs it. Fact is, he's never caved on NDAA or other civil liberty issues nor has he spoken in favor of giving Israel the proverbial blank check. I swear some people read everything at face value. Ron has more integrity and honor than to stiff us with Rand if he knew him to be a sellout of sorts. Get real!

I have been hoping for awhile now that's really like a Hollywood film and Rand is actually like his dad...on the inside.
Rise to the place he needs to get by playing their games and then "Surprise B****es!"

Bait and switch, in other words. Still...it's a gamble.

[FSP-Rebel]

I've been told I am an individual.
As am I, yet we're likely both libertarians so we are officially collectivized under one term. And Rand would be the liberty guy going up against the likes of Rubio which is why Rand is covering his bases now.

[V3n]

I have been hoping for awhile now that's really like a Hollywood film and Rand is actually like his dad...on the inside.
Rise to the place he needs to get by playing their games and then "Surprise B****es!"

Bait and switch, in other words. Still...it's a gamble.

You are not alone. This is what I think.

[No1butPaul]

It's really insane, these people are beyond ridiculous. The problem is, despite all their criticism of the media, they believe what ever the media tells them. That Rand is like Ron but "not crazy", and they then hear him attacking Obama and big spending and they think he's a mainstream republican, and it's comical. If you actually look at his voting record he is the single most consistent voice for liberty in congress right now (in terms of level of impact and consistency)

I distinctly remember Rand Paul saying to the press, awhile ago, he doesn't agree with his father on everything. That, right there, is a problem for me. Sorry, it just is.

[Lishy]

The Paul family is not stupid. I've trusted them till now, and I will continue to trust them. I do not see this as a defeat.

[rp2012win]

I distinctly remember Rand Paul saying to the press, awhile ago, he doesn't agree with his father on everything. That, right there, is a problem for me. Sorry, it just is.Everyone should know that when the cameras are gone Rand actually holds the same positions as Ron. Even when the cameras are on, he's very close. And the plus side with Rand being president is Ron will be inside that white house where he belongs. I would be very distraught right now if I thought we did not have another chance in 2016. But thats not the case. Having a Paul as president would be the most amazing thing for this country.

[floridasun1983]

Its a tone deaf campaign that almost succeeded in spite of itself, which speaks to the awesome power of the grassroots behind this movement.

[Okie RP fan]

Start throwing your money to your local liberty campaigns and to people like Thomas Massie.

I'm sorry, but this campaign isn't receiving anymore of my money. I'll promote the money bomb, but, personally, I am done. I will use what money I would send to the Paul campaign for my local liberty candidates, the future is now.

[TomtheTinker]

I LOVE RON AS A PERSON AND LEADER..heis the main influence(besides the lack of freedom)in lighting the flame of freedom within my belly and I thank him for that..with that said its about the time the torch be passed. We need a face that isn't afraid to ruffle the feathers of the establisent. This country is going down the tubes fast. If it takes pissing off yuppies and elitist to get the rest of the decent people in this nation to take notice then so be it.

[WesSeid]

:rolleyes: Rand is smart enough to play their Israel game and get his evangelical traction going for when he needs it. Fact is, he's never caved on NDAA or other civil liberty issues nor has he spoken in favor of giving Israel the proverbial blank check. I swear some people read everything at face value. Ron has more integrity and honor than to stiff us with Rand if he knew him to be a sellout of sorts. Get real!

I'm surprised at the more-than-mere-dislike of Rand. Maybe I missed some key things he's done. He's never been as... "blunt"... (straightforward?) as Ron, but I generally see that as simply being more politically savvy.

At the end of the day, anyone who votes against NDAA gets some leeway with me.


Reading 'tea leaves'? Ron Paul is the most honest politician to exist in this country for centuries!

Even now he's in the middle of a firestorm, from his own supporters, for his honesty in telling us about the campaign delegate strategy (not advertising in Primary states) and his honesty in discussing the delegate count.

Any visions of 'tea leaves' we see out of this is from our own conspiratorially leaning bend. He's laid everything on the line, all out for everyone to see, he always has.

There should be an easy answer to this question then: Why hasn't Paul attacked Romney despite calling Gingrich a serial hypocrite, calling Santorum a fake conservative in the middle of a debate, and saying Bachmann hates Muslims on the Jay Leno show?

[SpiritOf1776_J4]

Just to be clear, crystal clear, this is not about Israel. Israel is just another ring-kissing ... being a team player, yada yada. Rand does not share his fathers ethics and principles.

Israel is just another corrupt country. People mention them more because it's been unpc to talk about them, but other than that, just another filthy coin.

[alucard13mmfmj]

:rolleyes: Rand is smart enough to play their Israel game and get his evangelical traction going for when he needs it. Fact is, he's never caved on NDAA or other civil liberty issues nor has he spoken in favor of giving Israel the proverbial blank check. I swear some people read everything at face value. Ron has more integrity and honor than to stiff us with Rand if he knew him to be a sellout of sorts. Get real!

which is what i suspect Amash is doing as well. playing the israel game.

[SpiritOf1776_J4]

I'm surprised at the more-than-mere-dislike of Rand. Maybe I missed some key things he's done. He's never been as... "blunt"... (straightforward?) as Ron, but I generally see that as simply being more politically savvy.

At the end of the day, anyone who votes against NDAA gets some leeway with me.



There should be an easy answer to this question then: Why hasn't Paul attacked Romney despite calling Gingrich a serial hypocrite, calling Santorum a fake conservative in the middle of a debate, and saying Bachmann hates Muslims on the Jay Leno show?

Well, since we know Gingrich and Santorum just dropped out to give Romney the vote - endorsing him, that doesn't make much sense. ALL the candidates were fakes for Romney?

I'd buy the establishment threatening the campaign though. And they held the votes back in Arizona while they were doing whatever.

[jdcole]

Some Historical Perspective for Ron Paul Activists
Posted by Ryan W. McMaken on May 15, 2012 12:47 AM

I've been somewhat surprised by the absolutely hysterical reaction among some RP activists to Ron Paul's announcement that he's shifting resources toward winning more delegates instead of blowing it on straw polls in new primaries. In some of the forums, alleged "supporters" are hurling insults at both Ron and his staffers.

I remember how after 2008, some people I talked to pledged to "never give money ever again" to Ron Paul because he "wasn't serious" about winning. These people think elections are all that matter, but that's not how political and intellectual movements work. The election of numerous libertarian candidates will be a lagging indicator, not a leading indicator, of the success of a libertarian movement. The population still isn't there. Although it will be.

It's absolutely unbelievable that some people who claim to be champions of freedom are now viciously badmouthing a man who can claim much credit in making libertarianism a household word — as it now is — and has been instrumental in building the most important challenge to central banking and the warfare state in a century. All of this is in addition to taking control of the GOP machinery in numerous states and cong. districts.

I might also note that I turned on the tele the other day and there was Ron Paul talking about central banking. Note to newcomer activists: I know it's hard to believe, but before RP's 2008 run, there was once a time when libertarians weren't on TV regularly talking about Austrian free-market economics and the evils of war. I swear it's true. Cross my heart and hope to die.

Politically, Ron Paul is doing what the Religious Right successfully did 20 years ago when it became a major force in the party, and he's rebuilding the intellectual infrastructure of the American right wing in a way similar to what Buckley did in the 1950s. Except, where Buckley only pretended to be for the rule of law and limited government, Ron Paul is the real thing. And Paul's even doing it without CIA money, unlike Buckley. RP's the continuation of the old libertarian movement that existed in opposition to war and the New Deal before it was hijacked by the conservative apologists for the state.

Except now, instead of being composed of a few dozen guys who could all have met in a small hotel ballroom, the movement for peace and freedom is a huge nationwide movement.

Anyone who, like me, teaches people in their twenties can already see a huge change. The ideas of libertarianism have a credibility they have not had in decades, if not not since the late 19th century when Herbert Spencer was a best-selling author in America.

Those of us who have been involved in the libertarian movement for more than ten years can see a huge difference, and those who have been around for decades undoubtedly see even more. Nevertheless, I can understand that a younger person, or a person who has never been politically active before, might view one presidential election as some kind of end-all-be-all of the freedom movement, but it's not.

The Ron Paul phenomenon isn't even close to being done re-shaping the American political landscape, yet amazingly, some people seem to think that not running TV ads in California somehow signifies a lack of seriousness on the part of the Paul campaign. Only a complete lack of experience and historical perspective could lead one to such conclusions.

[PatriotOne]

Excuse me?


"Business Insider has learned that Sen. Paul has even been approached about a possible trip to Israel with Christian activist David Lane, a conservative kingmaker whose "Pastor Policy Briefings" helped launch Mike Huckabee's political star in 2008."

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2012-05-03/politics/31540200_1_rand-paul-ron-paul-revolution-kentucky-senator

You wanna try again?

ADD:
"Rand Paul is going to inherit his dad's political assets — he's going to be very formidable," Lane told Business Insider. "Structurally, there is something that is happening inside the state Republican parties that will have to be dealt with politically.""

Not inheriting any of my assets!

Let me get this straight . Rand was "invited" to go to Israel and that makes him an enemy now? Wow. I was asked to donate $ to Mitt Romney. Does that make me a Romney supporter?

And all that is me pretending that Business Insider is some kind of actual media source as opposed to a tool used to crush opponents of the globalists :rolleyes:.

[BKom]

Its a tone deaf campaign that almost succeeded in spite of itself, which speaks to the awesome power of the grassroots behind this movement.

THIS^^^^^^^