Ron Paul on the Latest Conventions

[Adrock]

In an afternoon press release that read like a concession speech, the Texas congressman said that he’ll continue trying to rack up delegates with the goal of making a splash this August in Tampa. But those close to the 76-year-old say he’s become worried about a series of chaotic state GOP conventions in recent weeks that threaten to undermine the long-term viability of the movement he’s spent decades building.

*break*

“It concerns him,” campaign chairman Jesse Benton told POLITICO. “He wants to convey to everybody and our staff want to convey that we’ll lose more than we gain if we go and we’re disrespectful. Respect and decorum are very important to Dr. Paul.”
“You need to give respect to get respect,” he added. “We are confident that there will be mutual respect at the convention. We want to make sure that we take every step we can to make sure that happens.”

I would humbly request that we go forward with passion, enthusiasm, and respect.

LINK (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0512/76297.html)

[tbone717]

But those close to the 76-year-old say he’s become worried about a series of chaotic state GOP conventions in recent weeks that threaten to undermine the long-term viability of the movement he’s spent decades building.

Those that have been maligned on this forum for stating this very thing deserve an apology.

[LibertyEagle]

Perhaps I have missed it. Beyond the booing, which people have done since elections have begun, what have our guys done that is disrespectful? On the other hand, our guys have been shoved, stomped on, hit in the back of the head; parliamentary rules have been disregarded by the controlling establishment, conventions have been prematurely shut down, etc. All in an effort to thwart their own bylaws, if it meant stopping Ron Paul supporters from becoming delegates.

So, please tell me, what have our guys done that is so horrible? Because I must have missed it.

[Dorfsmith]

Media reports made the AZ convention seem way way worse than it was. The booing was not that bad at all. But I agree, the more respectful we are the more we will accomplish.

[Brian4Liberty]

Media reports made the AZ convention seem way way worse than it was. The booing was not that bad at all. But I agree, the more respectful we are the more we will accomplish.

Headlines that used the word "fistfight" and implied (lied) that it was Ron Paul supporters did not help.

[tbone717]

Perhaps I have missed it. Beyond the booing, which people have done since elections have begun, what have our guys done that is disrespectful? On the other hand, our guys have been shoved, stomped on, hit in the back of the head; parliamentary rules have been disregarded by the controlling establishment, conventions have been prematurely shut down, etc. All in an effort to thwart their own bylaws, if it meant stopping Ron Paul supporters from becoming delegates.

So, please tell me, what have our guys done that is so horrible? Because I must have missed it.

Obviously, I am not speaking for the campaign, but from what I have gathered it is the case of our folks dragging out a process that normally is merely a formality into a drawn out nightmare that spills into parking lots etc. For states where the delegates are already bound to a candidate, the convention is simply taking care of the business of figuring out who is going to the convention. These usually run very smoothly, but we have some folks who feel the need to play parliamentarian and call for points of order at every single turn, shout down speakers, etc. As the campaign described it, it has become "chaotic". That is the viewpoint that I am gathering from reading comments and posts on non-Paul sites.

So while I appreciate people's willingness to travel and show up at these conventions, and while they are technically following the rules of the conventions, they are in many ways making a spectacle of themselves (I read somewhere that some people showed up in pirate costumes - I hope that is not true) and quite frankly leaving a very bad taste in the mouths of others. I would venture to guess that many of the persons that attended the conventions in AZ and OK over the weekend, who may have had a neutral to positive opinion of Paul and his supporters prior to the weekend, now view us in a negative way.

As the statement in the OP points out, we are looking for long term viability with this process, and if we are creating animosity between ourselves and other Republicans they will be less likely to want to work with us in the future.

[cassielund99@gmail.com]

Doug Wead, a senior Paul advisor who worked for Bush 41, believes that if conventions were allowed to operate democratically and fairly, Paul could probably win the majority of delegates in 10 states and come to the floor with one-third of the delegates. But he said in an interview before Monday’s announcement that they understand the Romney campaign cannot allow that.
“We understand they’re going to show a little bit of muscle,” he said. “They won. So we understand that. But from the last cycle we saw what happens if they get too cute and want to sew the whole thing up. It’ll just be a repeat of McCain.”


This article concerns me. It's as it sounds as if Ron Paul has conceded. It sounds like Paul is more worried about getting a couple of platforms into Romney's campaign then winning the election.

[LibertyEagle]

No one even threw snowballs at anyone. I am so proud. :D

[tbone717]

This article concerns me. It's as it sounds as if Ron Paul has conceded. It sounds like Paul is more worried about getting a couple of platforms into Romney's campaign then winning the election.

The harsh reality that no one wants to accept is that DELEGATES ARE BOUND. Without Paul winning the remaining bound delegates, Romney will have more than enough to win the nomination. The Paul campaign realizes that, and since they did not have the financial means to compete in the remaining states, it is inevitable that Romney will win those states and secure well more than the 1144 needed.

[Adrock]

No one even threw snowballs at anyone. I am so proud. :D

We have come a long way! :D

[wetroof]

I'm confused. campaign is sending a lot of mixed messages. Doug Wead was just saying what the campaign needs most is legal help to challenge the outcomes of some of the recent county / state conventions.

Also tbone717, I think you are wrong, I have heard a lot of stories of Ron Paul delegates converting or at least opening the minds of Romney delegates at the recent state conventions. Of-course it is the authoritarian type that will have a bad view of Ron Paul no matter what the delegates do at the convention.

this is from a recent write-up on the arizona convention by jondeal
My Dad is a member of the Right-to-life group in Mesa and he had been talking in the back with them [Romney people] and got a few to vote for the Paul delegates.

[XTreat]

The harsh reality that no one wants to accept is that DELEGATES ARE BOUND. Without Paul winning the remaining bound delegates, Romney will have more than enough to win the nomination. The Paul campaign realizes that, and since they did not have the financial means to compete in the remaining states, it is inevitable that Romney will win those states and secure well more than the 1144 needed.

That one guy in Utah who voted for Romney in 2008 was bound too.

[tbone717]

That one guy in Utah who voted for Romney in 2008 was bound too.

Actually he was not. Romney withdrew from the race, and was not nominated from the floor. That is why he was allowed to vote as a free agent for whomever he chose - in his case he (along with one other IIRC) voted for Romney while the rest of the delegation voted for McCain, even though they were originally bound to Romney. Georgia delegates will have a similar situation this year as they are bound to Gingrich, but Gingrich will not be nominated from the floor in all likelihood.

[jemuf]

Obviously, I am not speaking for the campaign, but from what I have gathered it is the case of our folks dragging out a process that normally is merely a formality into a drawn out nightmare that spills into parking lots etc. For states where the delegates are already bound to a candidate, the convention is simply taking care of the business of figuring out who is going to the convention. These usually run very smoothly, but we have some folks who feel the need to play parliamentarian and ca...

...ith us in the future.

I'm willing to bet that this poster hasn't personally seen or heard any disrespectful behavior from Paul supporters. I'm willing to bet that the opinions he holds come from the media.

But you know what? I'd be ignorant to think that somewhere, some Paul supporter hasn't been unnecessarily disrespectful. But do I think that it's been an epidemic that we need to apologize for? Hell no!

The only epidemic that we may need to apologize for is political apathy up until 1 to 4 years ago for most of us. An epidemic that has led to consequences that may never be undone.

If someone got booed off stage then too bad. In the last year there was at least 2 American citizens killed by drone attacks overseas.

[FlipObamney]

Obviously, I am not speaking for the campaign, but from what I have gathered it is the case of our folks dragging out a process that normally is merely a formality into a drawn out nightmare that spills into parking lots etc. For states where the delegates are already bound to a candidate, the convention is simply taking care of the business of figuring out who is going to the convention. These usually run very smoothly, but we have some folks who feel the need to play parliamentarian and call for points of order at every single turn, shout down speakers, etc.


I can only speak for Maine. Everything you stated in this has been done by the Mitt Romney supporters, not Ron Paul supporters. The ONLY one's delaying the "formality" of the convention were the Establishment. They simply didn't have the numbers to defeat us.

[LibertyEagle]

Obviously, I am not speaking for the campaign, but from what I have gathered it is the case of our folks dragging out a process that normally is merely a formality into a drawn out nightmare that spills into parking lots etc. For states where the delegates are already bound to a candidate, the convention is simply taking care of the business of figuring out who is going to the convention. These usually run very smoothly, but we have some folks who feel the need to play parliamentarian and call for points of order at every single turn, shout down speakers, etc. As the campaign described it, it has become "chaotic". That is the viewpoint that I am gathering from reading comments and posts on non-Paul sites.

So while I appreciate people's willingness to travel and show up at these conventions, and while they are technically following the rules of the conventions, they are in many ways making a spectacle of themselves (I read somewhere that some people showed up in pirate costumes - I hope that is not true) and quite frankly leaving a very bad taste in the mouths of others. I would venture to guess that many of the persons that attended the conventions in AZ and OK over the weekend, who may have had a neutral to positive opinion of Paul and his supporters prior to the weekend, now view us in a negative way.

As the statement in the OP points out, we are looking for long term viability with this process, and if we are creating animosity between ourselves and other Republicans they will be less likely to want to work with us in the future.

We will have to agree to disagree. I have heard stories where other Republicans came up to our guys and thanked them from stopping the ruling class from their shenanigans of just allowing the nomination of the slate that THEY chose. They have twisted the rules to try to own this whole process and if we are using the same rules to outsmart them, then I say CONGRATULATIONS.

You forget, Tbone, that the party was stolen from us by the neoconservatives and other globalists. We will follow their rules to take back OUR party, but we aim to take it back.

We should be as respectful as possible, I agree, but, I do not agree with you that we should just sit there and take it. We are following the rules and as long as we do that, I say ONWARD!

That is my opinion, anyway.

[FlipObamney]

I'm confused. campaign is sending a lot of mixed messages. Doug Wead was just saying what the campaign needs most is legal help to challenge the outcomes of some of the recent county / state conventions.

Also tbone717, I think you are wrong, I have heard a lot of stories of Ron Paul delegates converting or at least opening the minds of Romney delegates at the recent state conventions. Of-course it is the authoritarian type that will have a bad view of Ron Paul no matter what the delegates do at the convention.

this is from a recent write-up on the arizona convention by jondeal


I personally converted a sweater-vest wearing Santorum supporter at the Maine Convention. He asked me for a copy of our slate and voted along with us.

[tbone717]

I'm willing to bet that this poster hasn't personally seen or heard any disrespectful behavior from Paul supporters. I'm willing to bet that the opinions he holds come from the media.

But you know what? I'd be ignorant to think that somewhere, some Paul supporter hasn't been unnecessarily disrespectful. But do I think that it's been an epidemic that we need to apologize for? Hell no!

The only epidemic that we may need to apologize for is political apathy up until 1 to 4 years ago for most of us. An epidemic that has led to consequences that may never be undone.

If someone got booed off stage then too bad. In the last year there was at least 2 American citizens killed by drone attacks overseas.


I already addressed that to you. It is just my observation. Whether or not people respect that, that is their decision. I am in this for the long haul, and have been involved in this since 1988. I have years of experience at winning over voters and being effective on the local level. You can take my advice or ignore it, I honestly don't care - but I do offer it for the sake of those that are interested in learning how to be an effective grassroots activist.

[NoOneButPaul]

I really can't wait for your speech Doctor...

[Mini-Me]

Obviously, I am not speaking for the campaign, but from what I have gathered it is the case of our folks dragging out a process that normally is merely a formality into a drawn out nightmare that spills into parking lots etc. For states where the delegates are already bound to a candidate, the convention is simply taking care of the business of figuring out who is going to the convention. These usually run very smoothly, but we have some folks who feel the need to play parliamentarian and call for points of order at every single turn, shout down speakers, etc. As the campaign described it, it has become "chaotic". That is the viewpoint that I am gathering from reading comments and posts on non-Paul sites.

So while I appreciate people's willingness to travel and show up at these conventions, and while they are technically following the rules of the conventions, they are in many ways making a spectacle of themselves (I read somewhere that some people showed up in pirate costumes - I hope that is not true) and quite frankly leaving a very bad taste in the mouths of others. I would venture to guess that many of the persons that attended the conventions in AZ and OK over the weekend, who may have had a neutral to positive opinion of Paul and his supporters prior to the weekend, now view us in a negative way.

As the statement in the OP points out, we are looking for long term viability with this process, and if we are creating animosity between ourselves and other Republicans they will be less likely to want to work with us in the future.

By default, we're ignored, and the party leadership breaks the party's own rules to defeat us, drown us out, or shut down a convention. If we raise hell about it, we're the ones causing problems. If they start punching us - even if we don't hit back - the media reports a fist-fight with the implication being that we started it.

It's not our behavior that's the problem, and we are not the ones causing animosity. The animosity comes from the party's complete intolerance for dissent or anything other than submission.

I agree with being polite and respectful by default: If the respect is returned by local leaders and opposition, we can build a cordial relationship with them for the future, so we may someday come to an understanding. If that respect is not returned, we should not be expected to take it lying down...and this situation is the rule rather than the exception, because the kind of people who typically seek positions of power are the worst sort (sociopaths). Making enemies may not be a great long-term strategy, but neither is appeasement of those who have proven to be unreasonable, and who have already declared themselves our enemies.

[tbone717]

I agree with being polite and respectful by default: If the respect is returned by local leaders and opposition, we can work together with them and maintain a cordial relationship. If that respect is not returned, we should not be expected to take it lying down. Making enemies may not be a great long-term strategy, but neither is appeasement of those who have proven to be unreasonable, and who have already declared themselves our enemies.

I think what may be the issue is there are some folks that don't understand that point. Probably because we have a lot of people who are new to this, and a lot of people who are just in it for this one single race - they don't see or care about the bigger picture.

Oh well it is to be expected.

I'm heading to bed - goodnight folks.

[HOLLYWOOD]

The system is so corrupt, so premeditated, it should provide evidence that honest elections are for the boy scouts. TPTB ensure no one ever reveals their scams and charades. It should be apparent to anyone neutral, the Corporate Media, no matter how big or how small, will tow the lines for revenue and a piece of the pie, even it it takes us to a Fsco-Communist state,

Everyone but Paul/liberty supporters are bought and paid, or just down right brainwashed by the horseshit on TV/propaganda media.

The country's government is full of FRAUD from the top, which sets the cluture and presendence, to lowly local smuck. Media are the accomplice in this big game of charades to them.

Paul supporters have handled themselves remarkably pretigous in the terror of party corruption... frankly, either Paul & company has another plan, or they are the ones tired and worn out. We are the only ones that realize, it's an illusion of choice that the very power and connect group control all of government.

[TimeForChange]

While I do believe that respect and keeping ourselves under control are important to keep us from being even further ridiculed in the media I do believe that we are approaching a civil war of sorts and it is Liberty vs The Establishment. The Revolution is going well but it is slow moving, look how bad things have gotten over the past 8 to 10 years and if you look another 8 years into the future how much worse is it going to get? The media will not be on our side as long as the establishment and the corporations maintain the status quo. It is going to have to come down to us Patriots to bring America back to the people and at some point the whole showing respect thing is going to have to be pushed aside for brute force. If laws like NDAA and CISPA are being passed now and the status quo continues what kind of laws will we be looking at in 4 years? Will we still be able to freely access information over the internet? At some point this is going to have to get ugly

[IDefendThePlatform]

I've seen almost nothing that I would construe as out of order. The establishment Romney supporters are the ones who have repeatedly broken rules, our delegates have handled it very well, especially considering what's at stake (i.e. our FREEDOM).

If Doug Wead really said "They won" then I'm pissed. They haven't freaking won yet. I don't recall abdicating GOP decision making to Fox News, at least not formally. The convention is in August, and they don't even pretend to have 1144 yet, either.

[LibertyEagle]

I think what may be the issue is there are some folks that don't understand that point. Probably because we have a lot of people who are new to this, and a lot of people who are just in it for this one single race - they don't see or care about the bigger picture.

Oh well it is to be expected.

I'm heading to bed - goodnight folks.

I think a lot of us understand the point and you are not the only one who is in this for the long haul. But, we also will not lie down and let them walk all over us, then smile about it. If we followed your strategy, we would not have won the many slots in the GOP leadership that we have won, and that is crucial for the elections going forward.

[LibertyEagle]

I've seen almost nothing that I would construe as out of order. The establishment Romney supporters are the ones who have repeatedly broken rules, our delegates have handled it very well, especially considering what's at stake (i.e. our FREEDOM).

If Doug Wead really said "They won" then I'm pissed. They haven't freaking won yet. I don't recall abdicating GOP decision making to Fox News, at least not formally. The convention is in August, and they don't even pretend to have 1144 yet, either.

Huh? When did Wead say they've won?

[helmuth_hubener]

Obviously, I am not speaking for the campaign, but from what I have gathered it is the case of our folks dragging out a process that normally is merely a formality into a drawn out nightmare that spills into parking lots etc. For states where the delegates are already bound to a candidate, the convention is simply taking care of the business of figuring out who is going to the convention. These usually run very smoothly, but we have some folks who feel the need to play parliamentarian and call for points of order at every single turn, shout down speakers, etc. As the campaign described it, it has become "chaotic". That is the viewpoint that I am gathering from reading comments and posts on non-Paul sites.

So while I appreciate people's willingness to travel and show up at these conventions, and while they are technically following the rules of the conventions, they are in many ways making a spectacle of themselves (I read somewhere that some people showed up in pirate costumes - I hope that is not true) and quite frankly leaving a very bad taste in the mouths of others. I would venture to guess that many of the persons that attended the conventions in AZ and OK over the weekend, who may have had a neutral to positive opinion of Paul and his supporters prior to the weekend, now view us in a negative way.

As the statement in the OP points out, we are looking for long term viability with this process, and if we are creating animosity between ourselves and other Republicans they will be less likely to want to work with us in the future. I hope they are doing all this and more. We are trying to win. We are actually succeeding at winning in many cases. GOP is worthless warmongering trash who deserve no respect and deserve as bad taste in their mouths as possible; a taste of tar would not be out of order. These people are sick, they are wrong, they are bad, and we are defeating them, so they can just eat our dust. Go cry about it. We will don our pirate suits and V masks and continue winning. Thank you.

[J_White]

does not sound too fair to me - if they can break their own rules, distribute fake slates, do crazy counting, and we can't even boo them.
in an ideal world, that would be the right thing to do, but in today's world, its hard to control our feelings in such situations.
but we should strive to be better.

[parocks]

The harsh reality that no one wants to accept is that DELEGATES ARE BOUND. Without Paul winning the remaining bound delegates, Romney will have more than enough to win the nomination. The Paul campaign realizes that, and since they did not have the financial means to compete in the remaining states, it is inevitable that Romney will win those states and secure well more than the 1144 needed.

Yes, but not exactly. Best not to think about this too much. Unbounding them, maybe. Let's just focus on getting more delegates. Or, voting present. Or abstaining. Or, figure it out later.

Did you catch how many delegates we actually won in OK, AZ?

[IDefendThePlatform]

Huh? When did Wead say they've won?

From the article in the OP:
​
Doug Wead, a senior Paul advisor who worked for Bush 41, believes that if conventions were allowed to operate democratically and fairly, Paul could probably win the majority of delegates in 10 states and come to the floor with one-third of the delegates. But he said in an interview before Monday’s announcement that they understand the Romney campaign cannot allow that.“We understand they’re going to show a little bit of muscle,” he said. “They won. So we understand that. But from the last cycle we saw what happens if they get too cute and want to sew the whole thing up. It’ll just be a repeat of McCain.”“We’ll do everything we can to get our people to be cooperative,” Wead added.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0512/76297_Page3.html#ixzz1uuH3XA1m

[IDefendThePlatform]

Yes, but not exactly. Best not to think about this too much. Unbounding them, maybe. Let's just focus on getting more delegates. Or, voting present. Or abstaining. Or, figure it out later.

Did you catch how many delegates we actually won in OK, AZ?

I actually didn't, do you know?

[parocks]

We will have to agree to disagree. I have heard stories where other Republicans came up to our guys and thanked them from stopping the ruling class from their shenanigans of just allowing the nomination of the slate that THEY chose. They have twisted the rules to try to own this whole process and if we are using the same rules to outsmart them, then I say CONGRATULATIONS.

You forget, Tbone, that the party was stolen from us by the neoconservatives and other globalists. We will follow their rules to take back OUR party, but we aim to take it back.

We should be as respectful as possible, I agree, but, I do not agree with you that we should just sit there and take it. We are following the rules and as long as we do that, I say ONWARD!

That is my opinion, anyway.

The country club / establishment / Rockefeller Republicans would say that the conservatives periodically steal it from them. The country clubbers are more comfortable with the neocons than the conservatives perhaps.

[EndTheFed]

Those that have been maligned on this forum for stating this very thing deserve an apology.


Yes we do.... Thanks...


I appreciate the recognition Thanks to everyone who has stood up for these attitudes...

[mikel]

unfortunatley many of our guys have been the instigators of the back and forths. Name calling, yelling, disruptions, talking all at once, and it doesn't help that some of our campaign personal have told potential delegates to lie about their affiliations. I believe and know our guys have all these things happen to them... unfortunately, they started it, it escalated to physical. A lot of it is the age of some of our friends. they are young, and this generation has learned to scream for what they want.

[HOLLYWOOD]

All the GOP party garbage, all the fraud, racketeering, corruption, propaganda, premeditated media/corporate news accomplice propaganda, all of it has been all sorts of crimes or legal cheating, whatever you want to call it lawyers... but for Ron Paul to publicly say something to insinuating it's becoming ugly because of Paul supporters @ county and state convention is beyond absurd. Without knowing, but to go that far in his press release statement today, especially against the grassroots fighting the corrupt system for every delegate... sounds like he struck some sort of backroom deals. There's no other reason, with the exception of any health issues to terminate this campaign, especially after the 2007/8 presidential run..

SO odd... "muscle?" then: we can to get our people to be cooperative,” Wead added? What is the TPTB Michael Chertoff puppet master team behind Marionette Mitt going to come in and crack skulls? So much for a REVOLUTION, eh? Pull the plug, now go home and suck your thumbs.
Paul could probably win the majority of delegates in 10 states and come to the floor with one-third of the delegates. But he said in an interview before Monday’s announcement that they understand the Romney campaign cannot allow that.“We understand they’re going to show a little bit of muscle,” he said. “They won. So we understand that. But from the last cycle we saw what happens if they get too cute and want to sew the whole thing up. It’ll just be a repeat of McCain.”“We’ll do everything we can to get our people to be cooperative,” Wead added.

[Adrock]

All the GOP party garbage, all the fraud, racketeering, corruption, propaganda, premeditated media/corporate news accomplice propaganda, all of it has been all sorts of crimes or legal cheating, whatever you want to call it lawyers... but for Ron Paul to publicly say something to insinuating it's becoming ugly because of Paul supporters @ county and state convention is beyond absurd. Without knowing, but to go that far in his press release statement today, especially against the grassroots fighting the corrupt system for every delegate... sounds like he struck some sort of backroom deals. There's no other reason, with the exception of any health issues to terminate this campaign, especially after the 2007/8 presidential run..

SO odd... "muscle?"

I am pretty sure that RP and the campaign know better than to take media accounts of past conventions at face value. I am also pretty sure that a backroom deal didn't happen. At least not one that is for RP's political benefit, perhaps one that he sees is for the benefit of the entire movement. The "muscle" part seems odd to me too. I wonder if the campaign or RP knows something we don't and fears some kind of escalation from the Romney/Establishment crowd?

[IDefendThePlatform]

unfortunatley many of our guys have been the instigators of the back and forths. Name calling, yelling, disruptions, talking all at once, and it doesn't help that some of our campaign personal have told potential delegates to lie about their affiliations. I believe and know our guys have all these things happen to them... unfortunately, they started it, it escalated to physical. A lot of it is the age of some of our friends. they are young, and this generation has learned to scream for what they want.

Hilarious first post.

Thanks I needed a laugh.

[parocks]

I actually didn't, do you know?

Here's what I have out of Arizona. I saw 2 people from there on a thread, and getting this info was a little tough.

2 of 9 at the CD level.

19 at large still being counted.

[Carehn]

Respect is for when they don't know what your up to.

I say we Rage.
https://encrypted-tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTOMFL7pOUVbqh2rvlTwH91mgnu025xD 7ZQ9qgNsw8pVfJuXIbjLA

[cocrehamster]

The harsh reality that no one wants to accept is that DELEGATES ARE BOUND. Without Paul winning the remaining bound delegates, Romney will have more than enough to win the nomination. The Paul campaign realizes that, and since they did not have the financial means to compete in the remaining states, it is inevitable that Romney will win those states and secure well more than the 1144 needed.

But if we're talking about the long term future of this movement, isn't winning delegates and electing our own leaders going to help? I don't see what's wrong with insisting on following the rules. If they want the process to be different, they need to change the rules between elections, not during, so they don't waste peoples efforts.

[Eric39]

unfortunatley many of our guys have been the instigators of the back and forths. Name calling, yelling, disruptions, talking all at once, and it doesn't help that some of our campaign personal have told potential delegates to lie about their affiliations. I believe and know our guys have all these things happen to them... unfortunately, they started it, it escalated to physical. A lot of it is the age of some of our friends. they are young, and this generation has learned to scream for what they want.

I smell a mole. Most of the people here wouldn't be so insulting to the youth. Summing up a generation like that might work if we were talking about the crowds of night-clubs or some concert, but the kids involved with the liberty movement have proven on multiple occasions to be very mature for their age. You should be ashamed for making such remarks about people who care so much for the cause of liberty...

Anyways, I would really like to hear something from Paul that is completely honest. It doesnt have to be a big televised thing, but I feel like the supporters are being thrown all around right now not sure if we're still in the game or if we really don't have a chance. It's... uhhh... I don't wanna say this term... ok... an emotional rollercoaster. Are you happy? I said it. Also a word from the campaign concerning rule 38 would be nice, but silence would be an understandable course of action if it's true. And there goes the rollercoaster again.

[cocrehamster]

I smell a mole. Most of the people here wouldn't be so insulting to the youth. Summing up a generation like that might work if we were talking about the crowds of night-clubs or some concert, but the kids involved with the liberty movement have proven on multiple occasions to be very mature for their age. You should be ashamed for making such remarks about people who care so much for the cause of liberty...

Anyways, I would really like to hear something from Paul that is completely honest. It doesnt have to be a big televised thing, but I feel like the supporters are being thrown all around right now not sure if we're still in the game or if we really don't have a chance. It's... uhhh... I don't wanna say this term... ok... an emotional rollercoaster. Are you happy? I said it. Also a word from the campaign concerning rule 38 would be nice, but silence would be an understandable course of action if it's true. And there goes the rollercoaster again.

I agree 100%, yesterday it was looking like we won az and ok, then today it almost sounds like the campaign is starting to shut down.

[rp2012win]

I agree 100%, yesterday it was looking like we won az and ok, then today it almost sounds like the campaign is starting to shut down.Politico and ABC is reporting (with quotes from Jesse Benton) that the campaign was concerned about what happened in Idaho, AZ, and OK and that they did not like how the grassroots supporters were conducting themselves. It's frustrating because we're the ones following the rules and it's the RNC establishment that is breaking them.

My belief is that after AZ and OK the romney campaign contacted the paul campaign. I think even the paul campaign has been caught off guard with how organized we were in states that the campaign was not officially targeting. I think the "news" today was basically an attempt to throw water on the fire that had been lit across the country at the state conventions.

[devil21]

From the article in the OP:
​
Doug Wead, a senior Paul advisor who worked for Bush 41, believes that if conventions were allowed to operate democratically and fairly, Paul could probably win the majority of delegates in 10 states and come to the floor with one-third of the delegates. But he said in an interview before Monday’s announcement that they understand the Romney campaign cannot allow that.“We understand they’re going to show a little bit of muscle,” he said. “They won. So we understand that. But from the last cycle we saw what happens if they get too cute and want to sew the whole thing up. It’ll just be a repeat of McCain.”“We’ll do everything we can to get our people to be cooperative,” Wead added.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0512/76297_Page3.html#ixzz1uuH3XA1m

While I like Wead, I know his horse isn't attached to the Paul campaign. We gotta remember that many of these Paul campaign workers are hired guns that want to work on some other campaign in the future and may try to curry favor with the establishment for the future of their careers.

If he's really throwing in the towel on behalf of Paul then Wead should go ahead and write me a check to reimburse me for my outstanding convention registration fees and hotel room. PM me Doug so I can give you my address. Otherwise he, like Benton, should STFU and do his job if he's still employed by this campaign.

Does anybody have a link to the Wead interview that is claimed?

[BenIsForRon]

I think the campaign probably sent out the email to give everyone a dose of reality. Unless a miracle happens and a majority of voters in TX and CA have an epiphany to vote for Paul, then it's totally impossible to prevent Romney from getting the magic number of bound delegates. With this understanding, maybe some of the more hot-headed supporters will chill out when it comes convention time.

We've made many times more headway than we made last time, we have multiple state-chair positions, and probably too many county chair positions to count. Paul is thinking we can take over the party if we just keep at it a little longer. He wants minimal ill will from the old guard so we can take over more positions as time goes on.

The last thing is whether we can ever find another guy who gets people as fired up as Ron! Rand's not impressing me so far.

[LibertyEagle]

I hope they are doing all this and more. We are trying to win. We are actually succeeding at winning in many cases. GOP is worthless warmongering trash who deserve no respect and deserve as bad taste in their mouths as possible; a taste of tar would not be out of order. These people are sick, they are wrong, they are bad, and we are defeating them, so they can just eat our dust. Go cry about it. We will don our pirate suits and V masks and continue winning. Thank you.

Uh, no, not all of the rest of the Republican party is "bad". Many will end up coming our way, once the message is explained to them in terms that they understand. There is no reason for us to go out of our way to tick any off. And pirate suits and V masks will do us absolutely no good and will cause many to misunderstand this movement even more.

[devil21]

^^^^^^
We don't have time to keep at it "just a little longer". Have you seen the shit coming out of Congress lately? In four years this place will be a full blown police state dictatorship with no regard for the Bill of Rights.

[LibertyEagle]

I think the campaign probably sent out the email to give everyone a dose of reality. Unless a miracle happens and a majority of voters in TX and CA have an epiphany to vote for Paul, then it's totally impossible to prevent Romney from getting the magic number of bound delegates. With this understanding, maybe some of the more hot-headed supporters will chill out when it comes convention time.

We've made many times more headway than we made last time, we have multiple state-chair positions, and probably too many county chair positions to count. Paul is thinking we can take over the party if we just keep at it a little longer. He wants minimal ill will from the old guard so we can take over more positions as time goes on.

The last thing is whether we can ever find another guy who gets people as fired up as Ron! Rand's not impressing me so far.

One more time...

WE are the old guard. We are taking the party back from the interlopers.

[LibertyEagle]

^^^^^^
We don't have time to keep at it "just a little longer". Have you seen the shit coming out of Congress lately? In four years this place will be a full blown police state dictatorship with no regard for the Bill of Rights.

Who were you directing that to?

[devil21]

Troll Benisforron.

[LibertyIn08]

The slagging on Wead for his 'horse not being attached to the Paul campaign' needs to stop. He's not getting hired by an establishment campaign again after working for Paul - he's cast his lot on our side.

[BenIsForRon]

Yeah, I'm a troll for agreeing with Ron Paul...

On this forum, that actually doesn't surprise me.

[S.Shorland]

**Not American** As far as I can see,this 'revolution' is a return to your founding documents.Ron is a facilitator/conduit but I would expect your delegates there to fight for your constitution and follow their consciences above Ron or any group of people.You are fighting for the freedom of your country and actually the whole world's.

[BenIsForRon]

**Not American** As far as I can see,this 'revolution' is a return to your founding documents.Ron is a facilitator/conduit but I would expect your delegates there to fight for your constitution and follow their consciences above Ron or any group of people.You are fighting for the freedom of your country and actually the whole world's.

Lovely to hear this. It's easy to forget that when we finally get a president who is willing to fight for civil liberties, it will not only increase freedom for us, but for the rest of the world. Daniel Hannan's speeches would have a lot more weight if they were endorsed by President Paul.

[S.Shorland]

I have a sneaking suspicion Ron's done a deal with Romney but it's more important (in my opinion) that the delegates become true Americans and do what is right,as they themselves determine it,through your constitution and their consciences.That's how Americans are supposed to be and if there is to be a rebirth of the real America,it's how you will all have to act.

[muh_roads]

When Americans are eating cat food to save money in the near future, I don't think they will look back and care that a few of our supporters were a little bit disrespectful. Many will wish they had listened and joined us.

[The Goat]

Obviously, I am not speaking for the campaign, but from what I have gathered it is the case of our folks dragging out a process that normally is merely a formality into a drawn out nightmare that spills into parking lots etc. For states where the delegates are already bound to a candidate, the convention is simply taking care of the business of figuring out who is going to the convention. These usually run very smoothly, but we have some folks who feel the need to play parliamentarian and call for points of order at every single turn, shout down speakers, etc. As the campaign described it, it has become "chaotic". That is the viewpoint that I am gathering from reading comments and posts on non-Paul sites.

So while I appreciate people's willingness to travel and show up at these conventions, and while they are technically following the rules of the conventions, they are in many ways making a spectacle of themselves (I read somewhere that some people showed up in pirate costumes - I hope that is not true) and quite frankly leaving a very bad taste in the mouths of others. I would venture to guess that many of the persons that attended the conventions in AZ and OK over the weekend, who may have had a neutral to positive opinion of Paul and his supporters prior to the weekend, now view us in a negative way.

As the statement in the OP points out, we are looking for long term viability with this process, and if we are creating animosity between ourselves and other Republicans they will be less likely to want to work with us in the future.


The game at this point is delegates, and when we have the majority you better believe that people will fight for their vote to be counted fairly over the obvious cheating that Rmoney and the establishment are putting out.
This is about trying to control the platform and VP slot if we can get enough delegates. Maybe to you its just about "which delegate is going to the convention" but to the rest of us its not. To me you seem to be more concerned with "party unity" than fighting for what we believe in. Most of the people here could give a crap less about the Republican party or Obamney winning for that matter. If Romney beats Obama, I see it as a set back for liberty.

[speciallyblend]

Perhaps I have missed it. Beyond the booing, which people have done since elections have begun, what have our guys done that is disrespectful? On the other hand, our guys have been shoved, stomped on, hit in the back of the head; parliamentary rules have been disregarded by the controlling establishment, conventions have been prematurely shut down, etc. All in an effort to thwart their own bylaws, if it meant stopping Ron Paul supporters from becoming delegates.

So, please tell me, what have our guys done that is so horrible? Because I must have missed it.

i hear ya LE, it is like the ron paul campaign is believing the very people who are lying and cheating their way thru establishment media/gop channels. shakes my head.

[tbone717]

The game at this point is delegates, and when we have the majority you better believe that people will fight for their vote to be counted fairly over the obvious cheating that Rmoney and the establishment are putting out.
This is about trying to control the platform and VP slot if we can get enough delegates. Maybe to you its just about "which delegate is going to the convention" but to the rest of us its not. To me you seem to be more concerned with "party unity" than fighting for what we believe in. Most of the people here could give a crap less about the Republican party or Obamney winning for that matter. If Romney beats Obama, I see it as a set back for liberty.

Incorrect. I am concerned about the long term viability of our movement. If we burn too many bridges we will face an even more difficult situation in the upcoming years. So, as Paul has stated, respect and decorum are very important.

Nonetheless, people are free to act however they wish. If someone wants to go to a state convention in a pirate costume, then they can do so, but they do need to realize their actions will have consequences.

[speciallyblend]

The game at this point is delegates, and when we have the majority you better believe that people will fight for their vote to be counted fairly over the obvious cheating that Rmoney and the establishment are putting out.
This is about trying to control the platform and VP slot if we can get enough delegates. Maybe to you its just about "which delegate is going to the convention" but to the rest of us its not. To me you seem to be more concerned with "party unity" than fighting for what we believe in. Most of the people here could give a crap less about the Republican party or Obamney winning for that matter. If Romney beats Obama, I see it as a set back for liberty.

exactly how i feel, Ron Paul vs obama lite(romney). a romney nomination by the gop is a set back. At that point doesn't matter if obamney wins or loses, liberty loses! I know who i will be voting for in general!

[TruckinMike]

Note to Dr. Paul:

We are NOT giving up, we will never let those lying, cheating, collectivist loving Marxist POS continue along their well troddened path to complete tyranny. We will fight them, we will stop them. And do you know what to expect? I do. An establishment crying foul to their traitorous brothers in the media. They will writhe in pain from the loss of power, they will verbally and physically lash out, they will do anything and everything to maintain control of the GOP. And from the reports that I read - it appears we are making headway. FULL STEAM AHEAD!!

TMike


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAQPZaFH3QY

[helmuth_hubener]

Uh, no, not all of the rest of the Republican party is "bad". Many will end up coming our way, once the message is explained to them in terms that they understand. There is no reason for us to go out of our way to tick any off. And pirate suits and V masks will do us absolutely no good and will cause many to misunderstand this movement even more. I. Don't. Care.

What you don't realize is that this entire campaign is an exercise in ticking people off! The whole thing is all about going to an enormous amount of effort to apoplecticly tick off millions of despicable statists. That's it. That's what we're doing. That's what this campaign is. We are spending hundreds of hours organizing and getting our people out -- that is, we are certainly "going out of our way" -- in order to take over these sick good old boys' caucuses and conventions -- that is, "to tick these GOP slimeballs off."

The only way to avoid ticking them off is to not knock them to the ground and then repeatedly kick them in the head. They do not like it when we do that. They want to be up on the stage at the convention, receiving applause, power, and bribes, and not being thrown into the dumpster in the alley behind the convention hall. Go figure. But I, for one, intend to keep doing it. And people like you, along with all your neocon warmonger buddies, can just go cry about it. Thank you!

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

While I like Wead, I know his horse isn't attached to the Paul campaign. We gotta remember that many of these Paul campaign workers are hired guns that want to work on some other campaign in the future and may try to curry favor with the establishment for the future of their careers.

If he's really throwing in the towel on behalf of Paul then Wead should go ahead and write me a check to reimburse me for my outstanding convention registration fees and hotel room. PM me Doug so I can give you my address. Otherwise he, like Benton, should STFU and do his job if he's still employed by this campaign.


Yep. Those two can move on right now if they like.

[Athan]

I would humbly request that we go forward with passion, enthusiasm, and respect.

AGREED.

[airborne373]

Perhaps I have missed it. Beyond the booing, which people have done since elections have begun, what have our guys done that is disrespectful? On the other hand, our guys have been shoved, stomped on, hit in the back of the head; parliamentary rules have been disregarded by the controlling establishment, conventions have been prematurely shut down, etc. All in an effort to thwart their own bylaws, if it meant stopping Ron Paul supporters from becoming delegates.

So, please tell me, what have our guys done that is so horrible? Because I must have missed it.

I do not believe you have missed anything. I smell psyop and a room a usefull idiots falling for it. Oh Ron Paul say he is disappointed about his delegates winning control of government how horrible. Give me a break.

[nobody's_hero]

What's all this talk about respect?

Pardon me for not tipping my hat to the 'ladies and gentlemen' who have utterly ruined this country.

[BenMuldowney]

What's all this talk about respect?

Pardon me for not tipping my hat to the 'ladies and gentlemen' who have utterly ruined this country.

AMEN BROTHER!!!

[Paul Fan]

Keep those brushfires burning!

[anewvoice]

Obviously, I am not speaking for the campaign, but from what I have gathered it is the case of our folks dragging out a process that normally is merely a formality into a drawn out nightmare that spills into parking lots etc. For states where the delegates are already bound to a candidate, the convention is simply taking care of the business of figuring out who is going to the convention. These usually run very smoothly, but we have some folks who feel the need to play parliamentarian and call for points of order at every single turn, shout down speakers, etc. As the campaign described it, it has become "chaotic". That is the viewpoint that I am gathering from reading comments and posts on non-Paul sites.

So while I appreciate people's willingness to travel and show up at these conventions, and while they are technically following the rules of the conventions, they are in many ways making a spectacle of themselves (I read somewhere that some people showed up in pirate costumes - I hope that is not true) and quite frankly leaving a very bad taste in the mouths of others. I would venture to guess that many of the persons that attended the conventions in AZ and OK over the weekend, who may have had a neutral to positive opinion of Paul and his supporters prior to the weekend, now view us in a negative way.

As the statement in the OP points out, we are looking for long term viability with this process, and if we are creating animosity between ourselves and other Republicans they will be less likely to want to work with us in the future.

Ah yes, and we can expect that the other side behaves and does nothing of the sort when losing. Oh wait, I watched Maine and it was the establishment drawing it out and making a mockery of the process. And it was the establishment in OK who violated numerous rules, and in AZ and pretty much every other place we've been.

This is not a chess match, it is a battle an we're playing by the rules. There was animosity in the early 80's when the social conservatives took over, there will be again when we do. As much as I love Ron Paul, the expectation that the establishment will all of a sudden be kind and gentle with us because we're kind and gentle to them is not how society is now.

[Dogsoldier]

Here is a crazy idea.....Did anyone see that thread about the art of war?

"Put the army in the face of death where there is no escape and they will not flee or be afraid.There is nothing they cannot achieve."-The art of war

Doesn't it seem like these recent happeneings put us in the face of death?

[dude58677]

I. Don't. Care.

What you don't realize is that this entire campaign is an exercise in ticking people off! The whole thing is all about going to an enormous amount of effort to apoplecticly tick off millions of despicable statists. That's it. That's what we're doing. That's what this campaign is. We are spending hundreds of hours organizing and getting our people out -- that is, we are certainly "going out of our way" -- in order to take over these sick good old boys' caucuses and conventions -- that is, "to tick these GOP slimeballs off."

The only way to avoid ticking them off is to not knock them to the ground and then repeatedly kick them in the head. They do not like it when we do that. They want to be up on the stage at the convention, receiving applause, power, and bribes, and not being thrown into the dumpster in the alley behind the convention hall. Go figure. But I, for one, intend to keep doing it. And people like you, along with all your neocon warmonger buddies, can just go cry about it. Thank you!

This!

[Akus]

No one even threw snowballs at anyone. I am so proud. :D
well it is may, and even northern states don't have any snow any more

[Akus]

I think the campaign probably sent out the email to give everyone a dose of reality. Unless a miracle happens and a majority of voters in TX and CA have an epiphany to vote for Paul, then it's totally impossible to prevent Romney from getting the magic number of bound delegates. With this understanding, maybe some of the more hot-headed supporters will chill out when it comes convention time.

We've made many times more headway than we made last time, we have multiple state-chair positions, and probably too many county chair positions to count. Paul is thinking we can take over the party if we just keep at it a little longer. He wants minimal ill will from the old guard so we can take over more positions as time goes on.

The last thing is whether we can ever find another guy who gets people as fired up as Ron! Rand's not impressing me so far.
I'm dead sick of waiting for miracles.
If I wanted to wait for a miracle then I'd wait for Obama to overhaul our drug foreign and money policies.
This campaign was shit. Leaps and bounds better then the one in 08, but still shit.
Yes, the people who are brand new to the movement in particular and any type of politics in general act out of line, that can be understood and somewhat forgiven. They just don't know better. But when Rick Santorum who isn't running is beating Ron Paul who is, all of the excuses are out of the window.
Mitt Romney ppl can be real goons sometimes, but his campaign was a serious war machine, staffed with seasoned political warriors. Ron Paul's campaign, however, is staffed with who the hell knows who.

[Number19]

Obviously, I am not speaking for the campaign, but from what I have gathered it is the case of our folks dragging out a process that normally is merely a formality into a drawn out nightmare that spills into parking lots etc. For states where the delegates are already bound to a candidate, the convention is simply taking care of the business of figuring out who is going to the convention. These usually run very smoothly, but we have some folks who feel the need to play parliamentarian and call for points of order at every single turn, shout down speakers, etc. As the campaign described it, it has become "chaotic". That is the viewpoint that I am gathering from reading comments and posts on non-Paul sites.

So while I appreciate people's willingness to travel and show up at these conventions, and while they are technically following the rules of the conventions, they are in many ways making a spectacle of themselves (I read somewhere that some people showed up in pirate costumes - I hope that is not true) and quite frankly leaving a very bad taste in the mouths of others. I would venture to guess that many of the persons that attended the conventions in AZ and OK over the weekend, who may have had a neutral to positive opinion of Paul and his supporters prior to the weekend, now view us in a negative way.

As the statement in the OP points out, we are looking for long term viability with this process, and if we are creating animosity between ourselves and other Republicans they will be less likely to want to work with us in the future.Delegates are only bound to the presidential vote. On all other votes they are unbound. This point is critical to the movement taking control of party officers and platform and changing the direction of the party for decades. The last time this happened was in the 80's with the social conservative take-over.

[jolynna]

does not sound too fair to me - if they can break their own rules, distribute fake slates, do crazy counting, and we can't even boo them.
in an ideal world, that would be the right thing to do, but in today's world, its hard to control our feelings in such situations.
but we should strive to be better.

The "old guard" GOP isn't going to like ANY change. So don't worry if they get their drawers in a knot.

The world that they want to stay the same, is going under UNLESS there is change, BUT, like the Jews that stayed in Germany and told each other that the rumors they were hearing was "crazy talk", people will cling to what is familiar.

It is my opinion that like an addict -- the nation will have to hit rock bottom before it will be willing to give up "old, pleasurable" habits (fiat money & thinking of war like it is a football game to cheer about. Which it is to the politicians & 1% who don't risk "their" children's lives).

Stick with doing what you know is right and put the message out. When the suffering from repeating the same mistakes becomes unbearable, more will be willing to hear reason.


In my opinion.