At least 15 of 29 delegates go to Ron Paul in AZ...over 50%, Ron Paul wins AZ too!

[Elwar]

Of course, this is just an unverified rumor but:

http://www.dailypaul.com/232819/arizona-convention-live-stream?page=1#comment-2453770

"Two girls were keeping notes on our wins, one was backstage most of the day where the counting and observing was going on and they came up with 15 Paulites who became delegates. I don't know if that is accurate or not, but they both thought so."


Now, this could have many meanings since AZ had a Slate A and Slate B as well as alternates. Slate A is for delegates with the 50% penalty, Slate B is in case the penalty is lifted.


From Greenpapers:
The information below reflects the 50% penalty. Each of the 9 Congressional District selected 1 rather 3 delegates. 20 rather than 28 were selected statewide.
Saturday 12 May 2012: The Arizona District Caucuses and State Republican Convention convenes. Delegates are elected according to the results of the primary.


9 district delegates to the Republican National Convention are chosen in today's District Caucuses with 1 delegates selected in each of the 9 congressional districts.
The State Convention chooses 20 at-large delegates from Arizona to the Republican National Convention.

In addition, 3 party leaders, the National Committeeman, the National Committeewoman, and the chairman of the Arizona's Republican Party, will attend the convention as bound delegates by virtue of their position.

[opinionatedfool]

Great news if this is true!

[kill the banks]

please be true

[kylejack]

Hold on, I thought Arizona was going to be winner-take-all bound. That's why they were penalized.

[Tyler_Durden]

Verification before I celebrate,

[eleganz]

trying to verify ...

[kylejack]

We could have another situation like Nevada, where we win a bunch of delegates, but they're all bound to vote for Romney.

[Tyler_Durden]

trying to verify ...

You're a good man and an ass kicker in Cali, so I'll forgive your attempts to reassure me last night. I never fully breathed that sigh of relief. My lungs are still full.. ;)

[Tyler_Durden]

We could have another situation like Nevada, where we win a bunch of delegates, but they're all bound to vote for Romney.

Like MA too. I had assumed AZ delegates would be bound.

[carterm]

ignore boundness.

[neverseen]

ignore boundness.

Agreed! Bound or not, rules, ben swann, whatever. Just fill all available slots with RP guys. The rest will be handled in due time!

[CaptainAmerica]

we definitely have over 10 delegates. There was rumor of more delegates being obtained at they very very end after people left...a ron paul campaign worker was watching the count to the very end and thats where people heard of more delegates being obtained.

[Elwar]

I too am anxious to hear what the true numbers are. Of course we will never truly know any of our delegates until Tampa but having a good idea would be nice.

We should all know that there are so many intricacies in this process that proclaiming that we have "15 out of 29 delegates" will come with many caveats.

Those who voted in the primary then got home to see on the news that "Romney won" may be complacent in such news, but we know there will always be more to the story. That is why we will win.

[speciallyblend]

woooooo ahhh yeah, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5qT2C_Ggpg<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5qT2C_Ggpg">
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5qT2C_Ggpg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5qT2C_Ggpg)

[PaulSoHard]

Well at least it's good to know that we're not sending a whole slate of Mitt Romney delegates to Tampa. Even getting our delegates bound to be his 'delegates' is a win.

[samsung1]

This is amazing! Great jon to the zona grassroots!

[John of Des Moines]

We could have another situation like Nevada, where we win a bunch of delegates, but they're all bound to vote for Romney.

Delegates are only bound to vote for Romney but are allowed to vote on others matters. For example, say there is an dispute in Tampa over which set of Oklahoma delegates to seat. A delegate bound to vote for Romney can vote to seat the Paul delegates instead of the first set of delegates. Now in doing so can shift the balance of power to vote on a Motion regarding Rule 38 which then allows a bound delegate to be unbound.

[carterm]

again, ignore boundness.

[CaptainAmerica]

We could have another situation like Nevada, where we win a bunch of delegates, but they're all bound to vote for Romney.

Bound by state law to the 1st vote at the RNC.On the 2nd vote our delegates go unbound.

[Darguth]

again, ignore boundness.

This.

At this point we need as many liberty-minded delegates in Tampa as possible. We'll worry about binding rules once we've achieved our first goal: gain as many delegate slots as possible.

[kathy88]

ignore boundness.

Would that be boundedness? Just askin'. ;)

[Carehn]

http://mlkshk.com/r/2TC9

[thoughtomator]

If we get a majority of delegates, it won't matter who they are bound to - they can vote to unbind themselves before the nomination vote!

[rich34]

I know national electors are not bound. There was one back in 2000 that was going to vote for Gore over Bush even though WV went to Bush, but because of the Florida fiasco...

[zachrbroussard]

Did ya'll not watch Swann's latest video? Ignore binding!

[alucard13mmfmj]

if we can ignore binding... and if we keep getting 30-70% of the delegates + santorum/gingrich disgruntled delegates... we might just have more delegates than romney at this rate.

[Sematary]

There WAS that letter from the lawyer in 2008 stating that the RNC didn't recognize states binding delegates and that the RNC considered all delegates to be free agents.
I think that letter says it all - there are NO bound delegates and RP could actually win this thing.

[zachrbroussard]

There WAS that letter from the lawyer in 2008 stating that the RNC didn't recognize states binding delegates and that the RNC considered all delegates to be free agents.
I think that letter says it all - there are NO bound delegates and RP could actually win this thing.

Agreed. It would most likely go to court, but if the rule precedence is used they would certainly side in our favor!

[RabbitMan]

Anything new on Arizona? Shouldn't the results be out?

[digitaldean]

The real question is are all 15 normal delegates or are half alternates like I suspect.

[alucard13mmfmj]

are the 15/29, assuming its true.. A or B list? =p makes a big difference.

[rich34]

if we can ignore binding... and if we keep getting 30-70% of the delegates + santorum/gingrich disgruntled delegates... we might just have more delegates than romney at this rate.

But what's the chances of the Santa/Grinch folks not voting for Romney if that's what we do? I'm sure if the good ole boys come in and tell those folks they have to unite and back Romney the majority will. That's how they roll.

[heavenlyboy34]

:) I like to think I had a small hand in this with my volunteer efforts and such. Thanks to everyone else who worked in AZ! :D ~hugs~

[CaptainAmerica]

are the 15/29, assuming its true.. A or B list? =p makes a big difference.

at least 8 are A list.

[pen_thief]

yayyyyyyyy (?) :D

[kylejack]

If we get a majority of delegates, it won't matter who they are bound to - they can vote to unbind themselves before the nomination vote!
Not if state laws criminalize them doing so.

[RabbitMan]

I thought rule 38 recognized that the RNC does not acknowledge States binding rules and that each national delegate was accepted as an individual who could follow their consciences?

[sailingaway]

Not if state laws criminalize them doing so.

Arizona has a statutory binding, but they can be there to vote OTHERS unbound even if they are stuck for first vote.

[kylejack]

Arizona has a statutory binding, but they can be there to vote OTHERS unbound even if they are stuck for first vote.
Yeah, that part is interesting. Just wondering if Romney is getting an insurmountable lead. I know his numbers are vapor somewhat, but the counts put him over 900 now...

[carterm]

Yeah, that part is interesting. Just wondering if Romney is getting an insurmountable lead. I know his numbers are vapor somewhat, but the counts put him over 900 now...

what count are you following hahaha

[sailingaway]

Yeah, that part is interesting. Just wondering if Romney is getting an insurmountable lead. I know his numbers are vapor somewhat, but the counts put him over 900 now...

as you say some are vapor, but he is way ahead. It isn't insurmountable until he has the number to win, though, and you run harder at the end, you don't slow down because someone might beat you.

[Gage]

at least 8 are A list.
Then it's 15/58, or however many were the original amount AZ was supposed to receive.

[juvanya]

Yeah, that part is interesting. Just wondering if Romney is getting an insurmountable lead. I know his numbers are vapor somewhat, but the counts put him over 900 now...He only has 666 by my count.

[CaptainAmerica]

Then it's 15/58, or however many were the original amount AZ was supposed to receive. no. Its 15/29 on A list.

b list is only in case the RNC puts back the delegates that were stripped away from az for having the primary earlier than we were suppose to. Currently we are 15/29.

[juvanya]

no. Its 15/29 on A list.

b list is only in case the RNC puts back the delegates that were stripped away from az for having the primary earlier than we were suppose to. Currently we are 15/29.do you have the breakdown by AL/CD?

[Paul Fan]

Not if state laws criminalize them doing so.

It is a common misconception that making something 'criminal' will stop it happening.

[Agorism]

What's the rule number for getting nominated by a plurality in 6 states?

[Liberty74]

We could have another situation like Nevada, where we win a bunch of delegates, but they're all bound to vote for Romney.

I tried explaining these rules but too many refused to listen. About 75% of the delegates are BOUND. Even if Paul won all the unbound delegates, it would not matter. It's not enough to win 1144. Today, if Romney got half of Santorum's and Gringrich's delegates, this thing is over. It's why I always stressed an election strategy to win over the old voters who actually vote. It was imperative that we won primaries on face value and captured those bound delegates. Having delegate slots as in AZ and NV is useless if Romney gets 1144 which can be easily accomplished since Santorum endorsed Romney.

What happened can't be changed. Congrats to all the hard work the grassroots is doing to capture the delegate slots. But it's a shame the campaign took an approach to completely ignore the Republican base in a Republican primary which are old and religious voters. We could of had this gig wrapped up by now. Stamp and sealed!!!

[Elwar]

I tried explaining these rules but too many refused to listen.

"The RNC does not recognize a state's binding of national delegates, but considers each delegate a free agent who can vote for whoever they choose." -Jennifer Sheehan, Legal Counsel for the RNC

[opinionatedfool]

"The RNC does not recognize a state's binding of national delegates, but considers each delegate a free agent who can vote for whoever they choose." -Jennifer Sheehan, Legal Counsel for the RNC

^^This

[pawlpawl]

There is also the ability of us getting Ron Paul supporters as 51% or more of the delegates regardless of whom they are bound to. They can vote to unbind before ballot 1. Then night night Mittens.

We have 2 possibilities to trump the face value primaries.

Get majority delegates and unbind them.
Enact the free agent delegate ruling.

Theres also the possibility of ron paul voters whom are forced romney delegates to abstain theyre vote. We will need to have the alternates as well to make that effective.


We got cards to play so keep ur head up. Were not relying on old voters who cant google candidates, we are young, hungry, innovative, and intellectually capable of seeing beyond the smoke and mirrors ro finally overthrow the bullshit we have been handed.

[DonovanJames]

There is also the ability of us getting Ron Paul supporters as 51% or more of the delegates regardless of whom they are bound to. They can vote to unbind before ballot 1. Then night night Mittens.

We have 2 possibilities to trump the face value primaries.

Get majority delegates and unbind them.
Enact the free agent delegate ruling.

Theres also the possibility of ron paul voters whom are forced romney delegates to abstain theyre vote. We will need to have the alternates as well to make that effective.


We got cards to play so keep ur head up. Were not relying on old voters who cant google candidates, we are young, hungry, innovative, and intellectually capable of seeing beyond the smoke and mirrors ro finally overthrow the bullshit we have been handed.

There is a 3rd option. It requires pitchforks, torches, blatant injustice and a single person to cast the first stone.

[Elwar]

There is also the ability of us getting Ron Paul supporters as 51% or more of the delegates regardless of whom they are bound to. They can vote to unbind before ballot 1. Then night night Mittens.


If it comes down to suspending rules, that requires 2/3rds vote.

[kylejack]

It is a common misconception that making something 'criminal' will stop it happening.
It's not going to matter. There was a bound delegate in 2008 that refused to follow his binding...they just locked him out and entered his bound vote anyway for the first ballot. They're not going to let bound delegates revolt.

[Todd]

:toady:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PGZiX9TltY

[Gage]

The ballots from Saturday are going to be counted at the GOP Headquarters on 24th Street just North of Osborn today at 1:30 p.m. It is critical that there be witnesses there to observe whatever happens, and to report back to us any results determined or proclamations made.

[JJ2]

The ballots from Saturday are going to be counted at the GOP Headquarters on 24th Street just North of Osborn today at 1:30 p.m. It is critical that there be witnesses there to observe whatever happens, and to report back to us any results determined or proclamations made.

Bumped.

[johndeal]

The ballots from Saturday are going to be counted at the GOP Headquarters on 24th Street just North of Osborn today at 1:30 p.m. It is critical that there be witnesses there to observe whatever happens, and to report back to us any results determined or proclamations made.

That's why this 15/29 number doesn't make sense. Are they going off a preliminary count of the at-large votes? Where is Wead getting his intel.
Here is what we know for the A slates.
CD1 and CD 5 elected RP delegates.
CD2-4 and CD6-9 elected Romney delegates.

This was announced at the convention. There was no announcement of how the B delegates went.

[Elwar]

That's why this 15/29 number doesn't make sense. Are they going off a preliminary count of the at-large votes? Where is Wead getting his intel.
Here is what we know for the A slates.
CD1 and CD 5 elected RP delegates.
CD2-4 and CD6-9 elected Romney delegates.

This was announced at the convention. There was no announcement of how the B delegates went.

I got the 15 number from Daily Paul from the link I provided. Two girls who were watching the counting of the vote.

[kylejack]

The breaking news is that the campaign announced they won't be spending any money in states that didn't vote yet.

[juvanya]

That's why this 15/29 number doesn't make sense. Are they going off a preliminary count of the at-large votes? Where is Wead getting his intel.
Here is what we know for the A slates.
CD1 and CD 5 elected RP delegates.
CD2-4 and CD6-9 elected Romney delegates.

This was announced at the convention. There was no announcement of how the B delegates went.Thanks so much for this. So does that mean we got 13 of 20 at large?

[LibertyEagle]

I think we are still waiting to find out. Just a little while ago, the report was that the results were STILL being counted. There is another thread you may want to check out.

[parocks]

Romney 26 of 29

[juvanya]

Romney 26 of 29What happened to us getting 15?

[parocks]

What happened to us getting 15?

I have no idea where that came from in the first place. And the Romney 26/29 is coming from a tweet from a Romney supporter who is supposedly in the counting room.

[rp2012win]

I have no idea where that came from in the first place. And the Romney 26/29 is coming from a tweet from a Romney supporter who is supposedly in the counting room.Why are they counting votes in the dark of night? I wish stuff like this will happen in TX in my presence. That would be a dream come true for me. I would have given anything to be at NV, AZ, ME, OK, ID conventions.

[juvanya]

I have no idea where that came from in the first place. And the Romney 26/29 is coming from a tweet from a Romney supporter who is supposedly in the counting room.So thats a credible source now? Maybe we should average the two LOL

[CaptainAmerica]

I have no idea where that came from in the first place. And the Romney 26/29 is coming from a tweet from a Romney supporter who is supposedly in the counting room. fraud happened .I was there on the floor after the CD voting...we assembled after the voting in Congressional District blocks and the announcement was that we had at least 6 RNC delegates right off the top of our CD slate. This is PURE FUCKING FRAUD if they say that we got 3. This isnt even including what we should have had in the delegates at large.

[JJ2]

fraud happened .I was there on the floor after the CD voting...we assembled after the voting in Congressional District blocks and the announcement was that we had at least 6 RNC delegates right off the top of our CD slate. This is PURE FUCKING FRAUD if they say that we got 3. This isnt even including what we should have had in the delegates at large.

Are you sure the 6 delegates did not include the "B" delegates?

[CaptainAmerica]

Are you sure the 6 delegates did not include the "B" delegates?

only 1 was a B list delegate. i guarantee that.

[johndeal]

At your CD caucus you only voted for 1 A delegate and 2 B delegates. Same for the alternates.

[Keith and stuff]

I would have given anything to be at NV, AZ, ME, OK, ID conventions.

Why didn't you go to the conventions then?

[SpiritOf1776_J4]

Where the slates clearly marked A and B, or could you switch them as needed?

[Martin Silenus]

Wouldn't it be 26 out of 29 for Romney no matter what, as there are three "unbound" and 26 "bound" to Romney?

[RabbitMan]

So we lost Arizona completely then?

[parocks]

So thats a credible source now? Maybe we should average the two LOL

I dunno what the credible source is. We do know that they were counting then, and then the 26/29 came out. We got 2 of 9 on the CDs, which leads one to believe that we wouldn't win the at large.

[parocks]

fraud happened .I was there on the floor after the CD voting...we assembled after the voting in Congressional District blocks and the announcement was that we had at least 6 RNC delegates right off the top of our CD slate. This is PURE FUCKING FRAUD if they say that we got 3. This isnt even including what we should have had in the delegates at large.

There should be video of what you're saying.

[sailingaway]

I dunno what the credible source is. We do know that they were counting then, and then the 26/29 came out. We got 2 of 9 on the CDs, which leads one to believe that we wouldn't win the at large.

someone had said the immediate vote was the national committeewoman and we thought we had won and they kept counting over and over and then wanted a 'run off mail in ballot' without declaring the count, and our guys got upset.

[sailingaway]

I dunno what the credible source is. We do know that they were counting then, and then the 26/29 came out. We got 2 of 9 on the CDs, which leads one to believe that we wouldn't win the at large.

unless we outlasted them.

[heavenlyboy34]

:toady:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PGZiX9TltY
lolz :D I don't really know Sun City, but I'm sorta sure they've had a bowling alley or 2 for a while now. :toady:

[SpiritOf1776_J4]

Well you're going to have to dispute them and send out letters this week with your people. The three day to "count" the votes adds to it to anyone who reads about it; and it wouldn't work anyway with all the stuff I am hearing about the convention - document it, letter it, send it out. Start a chip in for a letter drafter if you are uncomfortable with it.

The second reason this isn't going to work is as soon as this hits the news later this summer, people are going to read rule 15(b) where delegates in Arizona have to be PROPORTIONAL (no stars indicating romney's name on the ballots) because the Democrats held their caucus in March 31st, and it isn't a winner take all state, and with Arizona trying to seat all 50% of their delegates anyway contrary to rule 16(a).

In other words, to most people, it will look like they are already cheating with those two rules let alone half the elected delegates saying it is invalid in a signed letter, with more witnessing of problems. That's the way it will look to most people towards the convention, but you have to start complaining and lettering and demanding now. You're the State's representatives, and when the king tries to shut down parliment, it's your duty to fight back.

[Yowan]

I just saw we only got 3 delegates. I had this list checked with two AZ delegates and a third is looking into it now to see if 3 delegates is the real count. http://www.azgop.org/article/arizona-republican-party-announces-delegates-to-national-convention

[johndeal]

Three delegates is the real count. The ncw, ncm, and party chair are not delegates at the national convention. The reason we got one at large delegate is because the Romney campaign gave it to us. They only ran 19 at large delegates for twenty slots. Shawn Dow negotiated it for us. There's the campaign hard at work for us again. In another post I said it was Fitzgerald and Papke who wouldn't give us the list of RP donors and volunteers but it was Dow. There's your Benedict Arnold if you are looking for one. If the campaign had given us that list before the district caucuses we would have won the whole state. Traitors.

[opinionatedfool]

Three delegates is the real count. The ncw, ncm, and party chair are not delegates at the national convention. The reason we got one at large delegate is because the Romney campaign gave it to us. They only ran 19 at large delegates for twenty slots. Shawn Dow negotiated it for us. There's the campaign hard at work for us again. In another post I said it was Fitzgerald and Papke who wouldn't give us the list of RP donors and volunteers but it was Dow. There's your Benedict Arnold if you are looking for one. If the campaign had given us that list before the district caucuses we would have won the whole state. Traitors.

So they can just stuff the ballot box and get away with it? That makes me really upset.

[J_White]

how did this change so drastically ?

[DamianTV]

This is proof that unless we organize and focus our efforts, we are just an angry mob minus pitchforks. We can do a lot of damage, but we cant even so much as build a barn without a plan, let alone a foundation for freedom. The important thing is that we learn from our mistakes and dont let them happen again.

California, Im look at your Ron Paul supporters there! Get to work and get organized!

[RickyJ]

how did this change so drastically ?

A recount made all the difference it seems. It is amazing how a recount can change things so drastically.

[bcreps85]

A recount made all the difference it seems. It is amazing how a SECRET recount can change things so drastically.

Fixed.

[tuggy24g]

Well get all the Ron Paul supporters to meet up at the convention again or get the local congressman involved.

[AnCapAnon]

Surely there are rules against removing the ballot box and counting in secrecy...

If not, BURN THE BALLOTS, BY GRENADE IF YOU HAVE TO. Then when you ask for a re-count, it's a re-vote.

[DamianTV]

Ask? You dont ASK for permission to fight a Criminal Congress. We've become too accustomed to asking for permission. We're not asking for Permission, we are asking them to do the right thing because if they dont, we remove the Corrupted from their places of power!

[Dogsoldier]

So are we gonna fight for this thing or what?

[heavenlyboy34]

This is proof that unless we organize and focus our efforts, we are just an angry mob minus pitchforks. We can do a lot of damage, but we cant even so much as build a barn without a plan, let alone a foundation for freedom. The important thing is that we learn from our mistakes and dont let them happen again.

California, Im look at your Ron Paul supporters there! Get to work and get organized!
hate to say I told ya so.... ;)