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Agorism
05-12-2012, 06:52 PM
US Military College Was Teaching Course That Suggesting Nuking Islam's Holy Cities
By Susie Madrak

http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/us-military-college-was-teaching-cour


The BBC editor who covered this story wondered why so many people sat through this class and didn't report it to anyone. I don't wonder—I'm going to make a wild guess that these were some of the far-right fundamentalist Christians who are trying to infiltrate and control the military

America's top military officer has condemned a course taught at a US military college that advocated a "total war" against Muslims.The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen Martin Dempsey, said the course was "totally objectionable" and "against our values".

The voluntary course at the Joint Forces Staff College in Virginia also suggested possible nuclear attacks on holy Muslim cities such as Mecca.The course has now been suspended."It was just totally objectionable, against our values, and it wasn't academically sound," Gen Dempsey said.He added that he had ordered a full investigation when the course was suspended in April after one of the students objected to the material.

The officer in charge of the class, Lt Col Matthew Dooley, has been suspended from teaching but has kept his job at the college in the city of Norfolk.The Pentagon has also confirmed that the course material found on their website is authentic.'Barbaric ideology'The story broke after a copy of the presentation of the course material was posted online byWired.com's Danger Room blog.

"We have now come to understand that there is no such thing as 'moderate Islam'," Lt Col Dooley said in the presentation last July."It is therefore time for the United States to make our true intentions clear. This barbaric ideology will no longer be tolerated. Islam must change or we will facilitate its self-destruction."

He added that international laws protecting civilians in armed conflicts - such as the Geneva Conventions were "no longer relevant".That left open the option, the instructor continued, of applying "the historical precedents of Dresden, Tokyo, Hiroshima, Nagasaki" to Islam's holiest cities, and bringing about "Mecca and Medina destruction".

Lt Col Dooley has made no public comments on the issue since the story broke.The Pentagon hopes a full report will be out by the end of the month, the BBC's North America editor Mark Mardell reports.

PierzStyx
05-12-2012, 06:56 PM
Such hatred.

thoughtomator
05-12-2012, 07:04 PM
Those cities would be not only valid but essential military targets under conditions of total war. The problem is not the staff working out the scenarios, the problem is the leadership starting wars we don't need to be in.

Agorism
05-12-2012, 07:33 PM
Those cities would be not only valid but essential military targets under conditions of total war. The problem is not the staff working out the scenarios, the problem is the leadership starting wars we don't need to be in.

What enemy would be at "total war" with?

Even so bombing civilian populations is a war crime.

Aurave
05-12-2012, 08:59 PM
Even so bombing civilian populations is a war crime.

Not if your side wins.

thoughtomator
05-12-2012, 09:08 PM
What enemy would be at "total war" with?

Even so bombing civilian populations is a war crime.

The term "war crime" is a propaganda term, not a term to be used in serious discussion. Also, it appears you don't understand that ideas like crime and justice are moot in the context of "total war", e.g. an existential them-or-us, to-the-bitter-end conflict.

Austrian Econ Disciple
05-12-2012, 09:15 PM
The term "war crime" is a propaganda term, not a term to be used in serious discussion. Also, it appears you don't understand that ideas like crime and justice are moot in the context of "total war", e.g. an existential them-or-us, to-the-bitter-end conflict.

How convenient to throw out every moral understanding and principle just because the magic word 'war' appears. War is the epitome of totalitarianism, and you have these cheerleaders for complete authoritarianism in the name of security or in any event, the illusion of such. I'd rather be dead than be imprisoned in the hell-hole that you would cheer on.

It's easy to talk about when you've never had to experience it, or have never had the wisdom of your ancestors experiencing it. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. Besides, I love liberty too much to just throw it away in the name of survival. Ever heard of Give me Death or Give me Liberty? In any event, total-war inasmuch as it can be distinguished is an idea born out of Democracy and the belief that the State is society, and thus everyone is part of the 'War machine'. I'm not a big fan of Democracy, so I'd rather get rid of that foolishly insane belief-system. Liberty can't survive long when a society becomes barbaric and ravenous with destruction, robbery, and enslavement that is 'total-war' and the 'total-State' to facilitate it.

RickyJ
05-12-2012, 09:24 PM
What enemy would be at "total war" with?

Even so bombing civilian populations is a war crime.


Not if your side wins.

Correct! The war crimes allies committed against Germany and Japan were never investigated as war crimes and nothing about them was ever done, and still most have never even heard of the millions of Germans snuffed out by the US military in concentrations camps AFTER WW2 was OVER! If I was a German or Japanese and knew the real truth of WW2 I would hate Americans and Israel with every ounce of my being.

John F Kennedy III
05-12-2012, 10:28 PM
Correct! The war crimes allies committed against Germany and Japan were never investigated as war crimes and nothing about them was ever done, and still most have never even heard of the millions of Germans snuffed out by the US military in concentrations camps AFTER WW2 was OVER! If I was a German or Japanese and knew the real truth of WW2 I would hate Americans and Israel with every ounce of my being.

Ok I have to see more info on this. I had no idea we killed millions of Germans after WWII was over.

thoughtomator
05-12-2012, 11:30 PM
How convenient to throw out every moral understanding and principle just because the magic word 'war' appears.

According to classic definitions of morality, there is nothing more moral than survival; in fact, that's the whole point of setting up a moral code in the first place. The ideas we view today as moral and just are not arbitrary concepts that came from our imaginations; on the contrary, they grew directly out of the understanding that certain behaviors contribute to the survival and prosperity of human beings (and also that certain other behaviors are particularly destructive to survival).


War is the epitome of totalitarianism

Epic assertion fail. Every war in human history is an instance of totalitarianism? Really?


and you have these cheerleaders for complete authoritarianism in the name of security or in any event, the illusion of such. I'd rather be dead than be imprisoned in the hell-hole that you would cheer on.

Who is cheering it on? Not me. I was stating the plain fact of the matter that in objective military terms those cities would be top targets in a total war with a hypothetical pan-Islamic enemy civilization. If you are familiar with the details of Islam regarding those cities then this would be a plain and obvious, indisputable fact. In writing that you seem to have ignored that I explicitly pointed out that the problem is not the military analysis in this case (which is correct and true) but the leadership failure which would cause such a war to occur.


Just FYI, if you want to take me on in a policy debate, I welcome it; but come prepared with logic, reason, and facts and don't waste everyone's time with emotion-based faux rationalism.

RickyJ
05-13-2012, 12:03 AM
Nuking a religion, that is a new concept. Just how does one nuke a religion anyway? Do you think Muslims would say, "ah they nuked our rock, we can't be Muslims anymore, might as well be Christians now?" Or would it be much more likely the response would be all out war against those that nuked their rock? I think the latter is the likely result from trying to nuke their religious places. Seriously, if they are not bothering us why should be bother them? Also isn't it foolish to blame an entire religion on a few bad members of that religion? I agree that Islam is a sick religion but many other religions are too, and it won't be stopped nuking their holy places, just like Judaism won't be stopped by nuking its holy places.

Agorism
05-13-2012, 12:13 AM
The term "war crime" is a propaganda term, not a term to be used in serious discussion. Also, it appears you don't understand that ideas like crime and justice are moot in the context of "total war", e.g. an existential them-or-us, to-the-bitter-end conflict.

Depends who you vote for. Bush is a war criminal. Cheney has even admitted that he's a war criminal in interviews. He's still on the lamb though.

That's why we need Ron Paul in office so we can throw them all in jail.

Agorism
05-13-2012, 06:43 PM
Bump

thoughtomator
05-13-2012, 07:26 PM
Bush and Cheney belong in jail for violation of our laws. The "international law" crowd can go autofornicate. There is no such thing as "international law" worthy of the word "law" without an international sovereign to enforce it. Anyone here interested in the establishment of an international sovereign?

Agorism
05-13-2012, 07:29 PM
Bush and Cheney belong in jail for violation of our laws. The "international law" crowd can go autofornicate. There is no such thing as "international law" worthy of the word "law" without an international sovereign to enforce it. Anyone here interested in the establishment of an international sovereign?

Geneva conventions?

JasonM
05-13-2012, 09:35 PM
Ok I have to see more info on this. I had no idea we killed millions of Germans after WWII was over.

Yes, I didn't know this either. It would seem that millions of ethnic germans as well as prisoners of war were neglected and died of starvation and what not from 1945-1953. The Japanese, likewise were put into internment camps in the US as well.

http://www.ihr.org/other/sunic062002.html

After the end of fighting in Europe on May 8, 1945, more than 200,000 ethnic Germans who had remained behind in Yugoslavia effectively became captives of the new Communist regime. Some 63,635 Yugoslav ethnic German civilians (women, men and children) perished under Communist rule between 1945 and 1950 -- that is, some 18 percent of the ethnic German civilian population still remaining in the new Yugoslavia. Most died as a result of exhaustion as slave laborers, in “ethnic cleansing,” or from disease and malnutrition. [6] Much of the credit for the widely-praised “economic miracle” of Titoist Yugoslavia, it should be noted, must go to the tens of thousands of German slave laborers who, during the late 1940s, helped to build the impoverished country.

------------------------


Don't forget, the "allied forces" included Communist Russia too at the time.

More basic info on the topic as a starting point for further research:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_and_expulsion_of_Germans_(1944%E2%80%931950 )

http://www.serendipity.li/hr/bacque01.htm