CA-DHS/Fed cops raid house, light the place up and shoot each other, and kill the dog.

[Anti Federalist]

Take a look at the picture.

That looks like .223 holes to me.

Rifle rounds, inside an urban home.

And if they killed a bunch of people on the other side of the walls, oh well, Mundane collateral doesn't even count any more.

Like the Greenland NH shooting, I'm guessing these cops lit each other up in a circular firing squad circle jerk.

Assholes.




Father: Raid on Petaluma house was confusing, terrifying

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120508/ARTICLES/120509560/0/FRONTPAGE?p=1&tc=pg

Victor Flores said he was in the bathroom of his Petaluma home last week getting ready for work shortly after 4 a.m. when an explosion shattered the predawn silence, followed by a scream.

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=SR&Date=20120508&Category=ARTICLES&ArtNo=120509560&Ref=AR&MaxW=445&border=0

He immediately thought his wife was being attacked as she returned home after working the night shift, Flores said.

In fact, dozens of federal agents had converged on their McNeil Avenue house to arrest their oldest son, also named Victor Flores, and search the rental house as part of an investigation into a 2010 triple homicide in South San Francisco.

The quiet neighborhood was awakened by loud bangs, presumably from flash-bang devices agents often use to distract a suspect as they enter a building.

Then the bullets started to fly.

When the gunfire ceased, three federal agents were wounded.

One of the family's two dogs, a boxer named Sassy, was dead.

The Flores' home was peppered with bullet holes, including one mere inches above the headboard on the bed where Flores' youngest son slept.

Flores, 57, said the May 3 raid was both confusing and terrifying.

“Nobody really knows what happened here,” he said in an interview this week.

The elder Flores said he and his son Victor, 20, had no way to know the intruders were Homeland Security agents. He said the pair initially thought the family was under attack by criminals and grabbed hunting guns to defend themselves.

It is not clear who fired first.

Federal agents said they encountered “a barrage of gunfire from an assault rifle” inside the home. They have declined to answer questions about their tactics that morning or the chain of events that unfolded inside the house, including who fired the bullets that wounded the three agents.

[Lishy]

WTF? Why raid his home in the first place? Is this even true!?

[Anti Federalist]

WTF? Why raid his home in the first place? Is this even true!?

His son of the same name was wanted for questioning in a homicide case.

Not sure you can solve a homicide case if you go around gunning down the witnesses/perps.

Of course the story is true.

[phill4paul]

“Nobody really knows what happened here,” he said in an interview this week.

Some do. Others choose not to.

[slamhead]

If one of the cops killed another cop they would have charged the entire family with murder.

[bolil]

Bummer people got shot though.

[tod evans]

"Homeland Security"?.......Bet this poor fellow doesn't feel very secure.

There is no reason to have a federal police force........ever!

[Brian4Liberty]

"Homeland Security"?.......Bet this poor fellow doesn't feel very secure.

There is no reason to have a federal police force........ever!

Got that right. Why was HS in on this?

[Brian4Liberty]

Take a look at the picture.

That looks like .223 holes to me.
...
The elder Flores said he and his son Victor, 20, had no way to know the intruders were Homeland Security agents. He said the pair initially thought the family was under attack by criminals and grabbed hunting guns to defend themselves.

It is not clear who fired first.

Federal agents said they encountered “a barrage of gunfire from an assault rifle” inside the home. They have declined to answer questions about their tactics that morning or the chain of events that unfolded inside the house, including who fired the bullets that wounded the three agents.

That grouping came from a fully automatic weapon. Obviously it wasn't the people who lived there, otherwise they would be charged right now with having illegal weapons.

And I think I count 30 holes. Someone emptied a clip there. A clip that is illegal for peons.

[Kluge]

Got that right. Why was HS in on this?

Yeah...wondering the same.

[phill4paul]

Got that right. Why was HS in on this?

Shush you or you might reveal the dirty little secret regarding L.E. in Amerika today.

[Philosophy_of_Politics]

Oh, it seems that waiting til' daylight and peacefully serving a warrant was out of the question.

[aGameOfThrones]

Oh, it seems that waiting til' daylight and peacefully serving a warrant was out of the question.

Like...


The knock-and-announce and daytime requirements protect individuals against the fear, humiliation, and embarrassment of being roused from their beds in states of partial or complete undress. And these requirements allow the arrestee to surrender at his front door, thereby maintaining his dignity and preventing the officers from entering other rooms of the dwelling. The stringent probable-cause requirement would help ensure against the possibility that the police would enter when the suspect was not home, and, in searching for him, frighten members of the family or ransack parts of the house, seizing items in plain view.~PAYTON V. NEW YORK, 445 U. S. 573 (1980)

[Anti Federalist]

That grouping came from a fully automatic weapon. Obviously it wasn't the people who lived there, otherwise they would be charged right now with having illegal weapons.

And I think I count 30 holes. Someone emptied a clip there. A clip that is illegal for peons.

Yes it was.

That was 30 rounds of automatic weapons fire discharged inside a drywall and stud home with innocent people living on the other side.

We already know what happens to a Mundane when they fire a "warning" shot.

[azxd]

.223 rounds are safer than handgun rounds when in a house.

[Pericles]

Now we know why they need 450 million rounds of ammunition.

[presence]

still not time yet, huh?

[kcchiefs6465]

.223 rounds are safer than handgun rounds when in a house.
Sources?

[azxd]

Sources?That would divert attention away from the cops and dogs domination.

[kcchiefs6465]

That would divert attention away from the cops and dogs domination.
So am I to understand you have no factual basis for your incredible statement? Which pistol round are you specifically talking about, and how did you come to the conclusion that a .223 round is 'safer' in a house? Perhaps one of your many ;)'s would have been in order.

[Pericles]

Sources?

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot1.htm

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot2.htm (http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot1.htm)

[kcchiefs6465]

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot1.htm

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot2.htm (http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot1.htm)

+rep for the links. I am still curious how the .223 would have reacted in the first setup. I was a little disappointed that they changed the setup to "simulate hydrostatic shock." None-the-less very interesting stuff. While they may be 'safer', that is hardly justification for 30 rounds to be fired inside an occupied dwelling. Safer is kind of vague. I would assume when saying 'safer' you are referring to the amount of drywall it will penetrate? Well maybe in that case they are 'safer,' they are hardly 'safer' in terms of wound cavity compared to many pistol rounds. And 'safer' is still leaps and bounds away from safe.

[azxd]

The thread is about cops killing dogs ... Stay focused.

[green73]

Take a look at the picture.

That looks like .223 holes to me.



buckshot?

[Steve-in-NY]

couple things -
DHS bought .40 rounds. Those are primarily for handguns, but there are some rifles that can fire it.
Its a magazine, not a clip. :p
It is legal in many states to own 30 round magazines... probably not in SF though.
It looks to me the pic that the other larger holes were shots fired from the homeowners and the bullet holes were cut from the sheet rock presumably as evidence.
Buckshot? Probably not. Look at that pattern, the wall would have to have been hit around 20 yards away. That's a big room. Also, buckshot does 8 to 27 balls, depending on the load - so the holes dont look to match, at least to not to me - but Im not a forensic expert by any stretch of the imagination.

I would also agree that if agents were wounded and they aren't talking about it or charging anyone that the other agents wounded them.

Sucks.

[ghengis86]

I Would think the MP-9 would be used more in the urban situations, but I guess a shorty 16 would work.

And another thing; why do they carry full autos in the first place (besides "cause we can") ? What good is full auto in densely populated, urban settings? It's like those goons 'protecting' Grand central terminal in NY during rush hour; what are they gonna do, spray a crowd of people with lead if they suspect that brown guy of carrying a bomb? "We had to kill you for your own safety!"


So stupid. They manage to shoot their own and still can't admit that their tactics are bullshit. Can't wait for the slow moving conga line enters the wrong home.

[TonySutton]

I would worry about .223's hitting objects at odd angles and bouncing all over the house.

The tests shown in the sources were all shots fired directly at drywall, 90 degree angle. What happens when the angle is 30 or 60? What happens when a wood or metal stud is hit at an angle or a metal electrical box is hit at an angle?

[kcchiefs6465]

couple things -
DHS bought .40 rounds. Those are primarily for handguns, but there are some rifles that can fire it.
Its a magazine, not a clip. :p
It is legal in many states to own 30 round magazines... probably not in SF though.
It looks to me the pic that the other larger holes were shots fired from the homeowners and the bullet holes were cut from the sheet rock presumably as evidence.

I would also agree that if agents were wounded and they aren't talking about it or charging anyone that the other agents wounded them.

Sucks.
I will refrain from commenting on your semantics and will stick to the bolded part. How do you come up with the conlusion that those were the homeowner's bullets? Let's walk through this and see if I can't come to the same conclusion. Either one of two thing must have happened for this to be the case:
a. the homeowner shot at the officers, they turned around and fired into the same wall (same direction)
b. the homeowner was shooting through the wall on the other side, the police saw the bullet holes maybe heard the gun shots, determined the exact location and returned fire in that specific location

Neither sound too plausible to me. Counting the holes there are 29 (including the two that were cut out). I am willing to bet another bullet went left of the light switch and lodged somewhere else. They cut the bullets out to determine which officer's gun it was that wounded the other officers, as well as to see which cop is so trigger happy as to empty a clip, though I doubt this was their primary focus.

ETA: Upon re-reading it seems another bullet went into a child's room lodging near her bed. Perhaps this was the 30th shot? Hard to conclude with so many bullets flying around but there is a chance.

[jmdrake]

Now we know why they need 450 million rounds of ammunition.

So should I feel save because they can't aim or scared because they might not be aiming at me?

[Pericles]

Can't wait for the slow moving conga line enters the wrong home.

Turns out like this: Police are investigating why a decorated Army veteran allegedly opened fire during a routine drug-related raid Wednesday night, killing one police officer and wounding five others in a shootout described as "total chaos."

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53237543-78/officers-police-ogden-stewart.html.csp

[TonySutton]

Turns out like this: Police are investigating why a decorated Army veteran allegedly opened fire during a routine drug-related raid Wednesday night, killing one police officer and wounding five others in a shootout described as "total chaos."

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53237543-78/officers-police-ogden-stewart.html.csp

Wow the propaganda wording in that article is chilling.

[kcchiefs6465]

Wow the propaganda wording in that article is chilling.
The picture in the article is chilling.

ETA: Sure does look like a standing army.

[Pericles]

Wow the propaganda wording in that article is chilling.

I also have not found any reports of SWAT raids in town since that incident ....

[Anti Federalist]

.223 rounds are safer than handgun rounds when in a house.

Let me empty a magazine of .223 and of 9 mike mike on one side of a drywall 2 x 4 partition.

And then tell me if you want to stand on the other side while I'm doing either.

[Anti Federalist]

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot1.htm

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot2.htm (http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot1.htm)


Lessons learned:
1. Sheetrock (drywall) doesn't slow any round down much. If you shoot in the house, walls will not stop any serious round.

2. Twelve pine boards will not stop a .223 round.

3. Shooting stuff is fun.

[Travlyr]

Lessons learned:
1. Sheetrock (drywall) doesn't slow any round down much. If you shoot in the house, walls will not stop any serious round.

2. Twelve pine boards will not stop a .223 round.

3. Shooting stuff is fun.
Just like seen on TV!

[Anti Federalist]

Wow the propaganda wording in that article is chilling.

Good God almighty you are right:


"I can’t believe for the life of me why he would do that," Michael Stewart said of the shootings. "Our priorities are with the officers who are still suffering right now."

That's from the father of the man who was raided, for no damn good reason, other than growing a naturally occurring plant in his own home, for his own medicinal use.

Just another man that wasn't going to be arrested that day.

The situation that many of us will find ourselves in, myself included, I'm afraid.

Now he'll be executed.

Outside, it's Amerika...

[Kluge]

Just like seen on TV!

http://berks.tv/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/elvis-shoots-tv.jpg

[Anti Federalist]

The picture in the article is chilling.

ETA: Sure does look like a standing army.

Yes. Yes it does.

http://www.sltrib.com/csp/cms/sites/dt.common.streams.StreamServer.cls?STREAMOID=IAeFv VqB_tkJCqXQnvR_nc$daE2N3K4ZzOUsqbU5sYtyTGiTGjEVWe3 O$Tk_LDsdWCsjLu883Ygn4B49Lvm9bPe2QeMKQdVeZmXF$9l$4 uCZ8QDXhaHEp3rvzXRJFdy0KqPHLoMevcTLo3h8xh70Y6N_U_C ryOsw6FTOdKL_jpQ-&CONTENTTYPE=image/jpeg

[Brian4Liberty]

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot1.htm

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot2.htm (http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot1.htm)


Interesting stuff. And the bottom line is that no rounds are safe to shoot in a house. Everything goes through drywall and even plywood.

[Kluge]

Yes. Yes it does.

http://www.sltrib.com/csp/cms/sites/dt.common.streams.StreamServer.cls?STREAMOID=IAeFv VqB_tkJCqXQnvR_nc$daE2N3K4ZzOUsqbU5sYtyTGiTGjEVWe3 O$Tk_LDsdWCsjLu883Ygn4B49Lvm9bPe2QeMKQdVeZmXF$9l$4 uCZ8QDXhaHEp3rvzXRJFdy0KqPHLoMevcTLo3h8xh70Y6N_U_C ryOsw6FTOdKL_jpQ-&CONTENTTYPE=image/jpeg

Those are cops?

Not much resemblance to this:

http://barneyfifesbullet.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Barney_Fife.jpg

Or this:

http://tvland.classictvhits.com/AndyGriffith/Pics/AndyGriffith02.JPG

Are Americans really so much more violent these days that we need this?

[Anti Federalist]

Are Americans really so much more violent these days that we need this?

No.

Violent crime and cop killings are at historic low levels.

What has changed is the relationship between cops, sheriffs or deputies and we, the people.

"We" are no longer citizens, to be served and protected and who have innate rights that must be respected.

We all have become a hostile enemy force to be neutralized by any means necessary.

They use words like "war" and "crackdown" for a reason.

[Anti Federalist]

Turns out like this: Police are investigating why a decorated Army veteran allegedly opened fire during a routine drug-related raid Wednesday night, killing one police officer and wounding five others in a shootout described as "total chaos."

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53237543-78/officers-police-ogden-stewart.html.csp

Somebody please give this its own thread.

I don't feel like having my forum doppelganger whine at me about posting another "cop hating" thread.

[tod evans]

Somebody please give this its own thread.

I don't feel like having my forum doppelganger whine at me about posting another "cop hating" thread.

At least he didn't allude that you want to murder politicians..:eek:

(read the dueling thread)

[ghengis86]

Interesting stuff. And the bottom line is that no rounds are safe to shoot in a house. Everything goes through drywall and even plywood.

Frangibles perhaps?

[kcchiefs6465]

Frangibles perhaps?
The day cops carry frangibles is the day I stop my "generalization" of the police state. Try not to give them any ideas either, because the first group mandated to buy frangibles will be, 'We, the People.' I'm surprised someone hasn't come out of the woodwork with a bill stating just that.

[Anti Federalist]

At least he didn't allude that you want to murder politicians..:eek:

(read the dueling thread)

Oh?

Linky?

[slamhead]

So I wonder if the family of the slain officer is wondering if the death was worth someone growing some marijuana in a state were it is legal to do so for medicinal purposes.

[Brian4Liberty]

We all have become a hostile enemy force to be neutralized by any means necessary.

They use words like "war" and "crackdown" for a reason.

In all honesty and accuracy, with no hyperbole at all, common citizens are now treated like inmates in a jail. They have exported all of the techniques, tactics and attitudes of prison guards from the prisons, and into the general population.

We all hope that it doesn't come to treating us like an enemy force, although they have already begun to use some of the same tactics, in the form of combat teams being used to enter homes.

[kcchiefs6465]

So I wonder if the family of the slain officer is wondering if the death was worth someone growing some marijuana in a state were it is legal to do so for medicinal purposes.
I believe they something to the effect of, "he died doing what he loved." Which really just leaves me shaking my head.

[Brian4Liberty]

Frangibles perhaps?

IIRC, they ran that test too, although with a rifle and not a pistol. It still penetrated many layers, and exploded a water bottle on the other side.

[Anti Federalist]

So I wonder if the family of the slain officer is wondering if the death was worth someone growing some marijuana in a state were it is legal to do so for medicinal purposes.

At this point I reckon they are so wrapped up in their grief and self justification, that you'd probably get a punch in the head if you were to point out that obvious fact.

Not that it makes the point any less valid.

What were you guys enforcing?

Was it really worth it?

[Dark_Horse_Rider]

In all honesty and accuracy, with no hyperbole at all, common citizens are now treated like inmates in a jail. They have exported all of the techniques, tactics and attitudes of prison guards from the prisons, and into the general population.

We all hope that it doesn't come to treating us like an enemy force, although they have already begun to use some of the same tactics, in the form of combat teams being used to enter homes.

And Ron's comment about the border fence potentially being used to keep folks in seems to be finding its' context in the unfolding of events.

[Anti Federalist]

In all honesty and accuracy, with no hyperbole at all, common citizens are now treated like inmates in a jail. They have exported all of the techniques, tactics and attitudes of prison guards from the prisons, and into the general population.

Very true, that seems to be the default, "normal ops" mode.


We all hope that it doesn't come to treating us like an enemy force, although they have already begun to use some of the same tactics, in the form of combat teams being used to enter homes.

SWAT and army tactics and weapons are employed now almost as SOP for warrant service of any type.

[tod evans]

Oh?

Linky?

Posts #'s 10&61

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?375725-Dueling-as-opposed-to-lawsuits...

[slamhead]

I guarantee they came in guns blazing killing the dog first. This is what the witness heard first...pop..pop...pop. That would be enough for me to grab my gun and defend myself. Goes to show you that no matter how decked out in their beloved para-military garb they are still no match for someone who is up to the task of defending himself.

[azxd]

And Ron's comment about the border fence potentially being used to keep folks in seems to be finding its' context in the unfolding of events.Based on the perspective one could draw from this forum, some might think he also hates cops, and is being supported, properly.

[HOLLYWOOD]

No Corporate Media reporting I noticed...

BTW, has anyone alerted to how corporate media increase in fear mongering, giving the daily dose of propaganda @ 5PM, 6PM, 10PM & 11PM... its like all of the first 10 minutes are nothing but police reporting now.

[phill4paul]

Based on the perspective one could draw from this forum, some might think he also hates cops, and is being supported, properly.

Why do you hate citizens so much? You act like every posting of police misconduct is a personal effrontery to you and by association the entire Ron Paul movement. Get over yourself.

[TheTexan]

Violent crime and cop killings are at historic low levels.

Depends on how you define violent crime. If you count violent crimes by cops I'm sure it goes up by a bit. If you count the violent crime of throwing people in cages for victimless crimes it goes WAY up.


We all have become a hostile enemy force to be neutralized by any means necessary.

Devil's advocate: If crime has gone down, maybe this strategy is working?

[heavenlyboy34]

Federal agents said they encountered “a barrage of gunfire from an assault rifle” inside the home. They have declined to answer questions about their tactics that morning or the chain of events that unfolded inside the house, including who fired the bullets that wounded the three agents.
How can you be dumb enough to confuse hunting rifle fire with assault rifle fire? :eek:

[azxd]

Why do you hate citizens so much? You act like every posting of police misconduct is a personal effrontery to you and by association the entire Ron Paul movement. Get over yourself.Really ???

Opposition to a mentality that shows RP supporters hating cops, is now hating citizens.

Yea, I've seen elephants fly.

[Carson]

.223 rounds are safer than handgun rounds when in a house.

Outgoing maybe.

Then you need to track down where everyone went for miles.

[Brian4Liberty]

Devil's advocate: If crime has gone down, maybe this strategy is working?

Interesting question. One could surmise that if you put enough people in prison you will eventually gather up a lot of the violent people, based on an assumption that they do get it right a good portion of the time.

[phill4paul]

Really ???

Opposition to a mentality that shows RP supporters hating cops, is now hating citizens.

Yea, I've seen elephants fly.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/20307886.jpg

[Pericles]

still not time yet, huh?

You mean from

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt317/Pericles-photo/S-1-3.jpg

to this:

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt317/Pericles-photo/burst.jpg

[azxd]

You mean from

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt317/Pericles-photo/S-1-3.jpg

to this:

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt317/Pericles-photo/burst.jpgFine representation ... I almost rest my case.

When ya planning to shoot a cop, Perecles ?

[Pericles]

Somebody please give this its own thread.

I don't feel like having my forum doppelganger whine at me about posting another "cop hating" thread.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?346857-Police-suspect-Army-vet-in-shooting-of-six-officers&highlight=ogden+stewart

[Aurave]

Take a look at the picture.

That looks like .223 holes to me.

Rifle rounds, inside an urban home.

And if they killed a bunch of people on the other side of the walls, oh well, Mundane collateral doesn't even count any more.

Like the Greenland NH shooting, I'm guessing these cops lit each other up in a circular firing squad circle jerk.

Assholes.




Father: Raid on Petaluma house was confusing, terrifying

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120508/ARTICLES/120509560/0/FRONTPAGE?p=1&tc=pg

Victor Flores said he was in the bathroom of his Petaluma home last week getting ready for work shortly after 4 a.m. when an explosion shattered the predawn silence, followed by a scream.

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=SR&Date=20120508&Category=ARTICLES&ArtNo=120509560&Ref=AR&MaxW=445&border=0

He immediately thought his wife was being attacked as she returned home after working the night shift, Flores said.

In fact, dozens of federal agents had converged on their McNeil Avenue house to arrest their oldest son, also named Victor Flores, and search the rental house as part of an investigation into a 2010 triple homicide in South San Francisco.

The quiet neighborhood was awakened by loud bangs, presumably from flash-bang devices agents often use to distract a suspect as they enter a building.

Then the bullets started to fly.

When the gunfire ceased, three federal agents were wounded.

One of the family's two dogs, a boxer named Sassy, was dead.

The Flores' home was peppered with bullet holes, including one mere inches above the headboard on the bed where Flores' youngest son slept.

Flores, 57, said the May 3 raid was both confusing and terrifying.

“Nobody really knows what happened here,” he said in an interview this week.

The elder Flores said he and his son Victor, 20, had no way to know the intruders were Homeland Security agents. He said the pair initially thought the family was under attack by criminals and grabbed hunting guns to defend themselves.

It is not clear who fired first.

Federal agents said they encountered “a barrage of gunfire from an assault rifle” inside the home. They have declined to answer questions about their tactics that morning or the chain of events that unfolded inside the house, including who fired the bullets that wounded the three agents.


I live about 15minutes away from where this happened. It honestly seemed like they brought in an entire division to arrest this one young man. What is more ridiculous is that the man they wanted to arrest WAS IN (traffic) COURT A FEW DAYS PRIOR AND COULD HAVE BEEN APPREHENDED THERE PEACEFULLY. No one even fucking cares this happened where I live.

[phill4paul]

Fine representation ... I almost rest my case.

When ya planning to shoot a cop, Perecles ?

I suppose it depends on the situation....


The measure specifies that residents are protected by the state's self-defense law if they reasonably believe force is necessary to protect themselves from unlawful actions by an officer.

Indiana has a 'Right' to resist.

[azxd]

Somebody please give this its own thread.

I don't feel like having my forum doppelganger whine at me about posting another "cop hating" thread.It's what you do best ... As you claim to support Paul ... Start the damn thread.

Exposure is good for you, and the movement ... YES ?

[azxd]

I suppose it depends on the situation....



Indiana has a 'Right' to resist.So you are advocating shoot LEO's ?

[Pericles]

Fine representation ... I almost rest my case.

When ya planning to shoot a cop, Perecles ?

When are you planning on supporting the Constitution? Or are you one of those guys who is going to eliminate all government?

[azxd]

When are you planning on supporting the Constitution? Or are you one of those guys who is going to eliminate all government?Stop diverting ... You're the one who seems to want to shoot a cop.
Go forward with your explanation ... The movement wants to know what you really support.

[phill4paul]

So you are advocating shoot LEO's ?

I think I covered that. So you advocate never exercising your second amendment right to ever defend yourself under any circumstance that involves L.E.O?

[Pericles]

I think I covered that. So you advocate never exercising your second amendment right to ever defend yourself under any circumstance that involves L.E.O?

Or enforcing your 1st Amendment rights, or 4th Amendment rights - or even the laws of your state:


Sec. 39.03. OFFICIAL OPPRESSION. (a) A public servant acting under color of his office or employment commits an offense if he:
(1) intentionally subjects another to mistreatment or to arrest, detention, search, seizure, dispossession, assessment, or lien that he knows is unlawful;
(2) intentionally denies or impedes another in the exercise or enjoyment of any right, privilege, power, or immunity, knowing his conduct is unlawful; or
(3) intentionally subjects another to sexual harassment.
(b) For purposes of this section, a public servant acts under color of his office or employment if he acts or purports to act in an official capacity or takes advantage of such actual or purported capacity.
(c) In this section, "sexual harassment" means unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, or other verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature, submission to which is made a term or condition of a person's exercise or enjoyment of any right, privilege, power, or immunity, either explicitly or implicitly.
(d) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.

[Kluge]

Stop diverting ... You're the one who seems to want to shoot a cop.
Go forward with your explanation ... The movement wants to know what you really support.

1. Are cops human beings who sometimes do bad things to other human beings?
2. Is self-defense a right or a privilege?

You seem to think that some people here want to go on a killing rampage, targeting cops, just for the hell of it, when that is not the case. Meanwhile, you defend cops who go around shooting dogs, the elderly, the mentally challenged, the handicapped, etc., just for the hell of it.

I survived a dog bite when I was a kid--a scrawny little 50lb girl vs. a 75lb German Shepherd. You know why the dog bit me? I walked onto his territory and stuck my hand through the fence. Guess what I learned not to do?

I guess by your standards, I should have gone back and shot the dog several times so I could continue trespassing, or I should have called the cops so they could.

[azxd]

I think I covered that. So you advocate never exercising your second amendment right to ever defend yourself under any circumstance that involves L.E.O?You made the claim ... Are you saying you'd shoot a cop, just because ?

[azxd]

1. Are cops human beings who sometimes do bad things to other human beings?
2. Is self-defense a right or a privilege?

You seem to think that some people here want to go on a killing rampage, targeting cops, just for the hell of it, when that is not the case. Meanwhile, you defend cops who go around shooting dogs, the elderly, the mentally challenged, the handicapped, etc., just for the hell of it.

I survived a dog bite when I was a kid--a scrawny little 50lb girl vs. a 75lb German Shepherd. You know why the dog bit me? I walked onto his territory and stuck my hand through the fence. Guess what I learned not to do?

I guess by your standards, I should have gone back and shot the dog several times so I could continue trespassing, or I should have called the cops so they could.I'm not the one who posted the highly suggestive picture.

[phill4paul]

You made the claim ... Are you saying you'd shoot a cop, just because ?

My answer was apparent in my post...

Stop diverting ... You're the one who seems to believe that there would never be justification for using your second amendment rights to defend yourself under any circumstance if L.E.O.'s are involved.
Care to explain this belief that citizen's should not exercise their constitutional rights... The movement wants to know if you support the constitution.

[Kluge]

I'm not the one who posted the highly suggestive picture.

You're the one whose posts build a highly suggestive picture in my head of someone bending over and taking it up the ass, repeatedly.

[phill4paul]

You made the claim ... Are you saying you'd shoot a cop, just because ?

Quite being obtuse. Your question was answered by my post before you tried to twist it.

So answer my question. Do you advocate never exercising your second amendment right to ever defend yourself under any circumstance that involves L.E.O?

[Brian4Liberty]

I survived a dog bite when I was a kid--a scrawny little 50lb girl vs. a 75lb German Shepherd. You know why the dog bit me? I walked onto his territory and stuck my hand through the fence. Guess what I learned not to do?

I had a similar experience. I was on the border of the property outside the barbed wire fence. It's amazing how fast that dog could cover a distance and go through the space in that fence as if there was no fence. Needless to say, I didn't out run the dog and he caught me. Bit my pants (and hip) and ran back on to his property. Lesson learned? Never run from a dog, or any animal. It has come in handy many times since then. Unless it's a trained attack dog, all they will do is bark if you stand your ground (and if you let them come over and sniff your hand, they usually end up being friendly pups*). Apparently some people would rather shoot...

*Caveat: always let them come to you. Never back them into a corner.

[azxd]

Quite being obtuse. Your question was answered by my post before you tried to twist it.

So answer my question. Do you advocate never exercising your second amendment right to ever defend yourself under any circumstance that involves L.E.O?The word is "quit" LOL

And if you've paid any attention at all, you know my answer ... And it ain't shoot cops indiscriminately.

Start your damn war ... Some of you advocate that this is what it really is, so do your thing ... Just don't go blaming me for your stupidity.

Ron Paul might win, if people don't see the crap some of you cop haters keep posting :p

Wanna explain, again, what makes this political ?

You FEW needs your own section.

The rest of the World needn't be bothered with your blind hatred ... But until the MOD's interviene, knock yourself out,and chop at RP's potential.

[Kluge]

I had a similar experience. I was on the border of the property outside the barbed wire fence. It's amazing how fast that dog could cover a distance and go through the space in that fence as if there was no fence. Needless to say, I didn't out run the dog and he caught me. Bit my pants (and hip) and ran back on to his property. Lesson learned? Never run from a dog, or any animal. It has come in handy many times since then. Unless it's a trained attack dog, all they will do is bark if you stand your ground (and if you let them come over and sniff your hand, they usually end up being friendly pups*). Apparently some people would rather shoot...

*Caveat: always let them come to you. Never back them into a corner.

Yep. Dogs like mine will bite you if you come into the house and you're a stranger. If you just stand there, she might come over and sniff you, but most likely she'll find something far more interesting to sniff and leave you alone. If cops burst into my house, they would get bit, but if it was a decent cop who knocked--the dog would be put away and we could have a reasonable interaction.

[Kluge]

The word is "quit" LOL

And if you've paid any attention at all, you know my answer ... And it ain't shoot cops indiscriminately.

Start your damn war ... Some of you advocate that this is what it really is, so do your thing ... Just don't go blaming me for your stupidity.

Ron Paul might win, if people don't see the crap some of you cop haters keep posting :p

Wanna explain, again, what makes this political ?

You FEW needs your own section.

The rest of the World needn't be bothered with your blind hatred ... But until the MOD's interviene, knock yourself out,and chop at RP's potential.

You're really going to nitpick over a typo with your grammar?

[ExPatPaki]

But until the MOD's interviene, knock yourself out,and chop at RP's potential.

The word is intervene.

[phill4paul]

You're really going to nitpick over a typo with your grammar?


The word is intervene.

:D

[phill4paul]

The word is "quit" LOL

And if you've paid any attention at all, you know my answer ... And it ain't shoot cops indiscriminately.

Start your damn war ... Some of you advocate that this is what it really is, so do your thing ... Just don't go blaming me for your stupidity.

Ron Paul might win, if people don't see the crap some of you cop haters keep posting :p

Wanna explain, again, what makes this political ?

You FEW needs your own section.

The rest of the World needn't be bothered with your blind hatred ... But until the MOD's interviene, knock yourself out,and chop at RP's potential.

Again not much to be said by you except throwing baseless accusations at some. Nice fishing attempt. Kinda sophomoric in the effort though. You should see if they can transfer you to the child-predator entrapment unit.

[Kluge]

Again not much to be said by you except throwing baseless accusations at some. Nice fishing attempt. Kinda sophomoric in the effort though. You should see if they can transfer you to the child-predator entrapment unit.

I'm considering putting him on ignore, but he's actually kind of entertaining in his sheer ridiculousness. From his grammar, to his pants-wetting over discussing real problems in this country, to his sheer hypocrisy...it's amusing sometimes.

[heavenlyboy34]

You're really going to nitpick over a typo with your grammar?
Hey, you're my co-nitpicker. You should be delighted. ;) :D

[phill4paul]

I'm considering putting him on ignore, but he's actually kind of entertaining in his sheer ridiculousness. From his grammar, to his pants-wetting over discussing real problems in this country, to his sheer hypocrisy...it's amusing sometimes.

Actually, if he keeps insinuating that I and others believe in indiscriminately shooting cops, I'm going to report him.

[Pericles]

I'm considering putting him on ignore, but he's actually kind of entertaining in his sheer ridiculousness. From his grammar, to his pants-wetting over discussing real problems in this country, to his sheer hypocrisy...it's amusing sometimes.

I have to admit that I'm more comfortable when a handle displays only one personality.

[Kluge]

Actually, if he keeps insinuating that I and others believe in indiscriminately shooting cops, I'm going to report him.

That actually may be for the best.


I have to admit that I'm more comfortable when a handle displays only one personality.

Heh. I've only read his pro-cop stuff, which seems pretty consistently...inconsistent and hypocritical.

[Anti Federalist]

I live about 15minutes away from where this happened. It honestly seemed like they brought in an entire division to arrest this one young man. What is more ridiculous is that the man they wanted to arrest WAS IN (traffic) COURT A FEW DAYS PRIOR AND COULD HAVE BEEN APPREHENDED THERE PEACEFULLY. No one even fucking cares this happened where I live.

I care.

I care a great deal.

[kcchiefs6465]

I have to admit that I'm more comfortable when a handle displays only one personality.
What? I love the often vague and meaningless phrases some members throw around. Perhaps before my time? In any case, like a good a jigsaw puzzle, once you think you have the right piece to the puzzle, it just doesn't fit.