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anarchy
05-07-2012, 06:49 PM
Paul’s forces are not bound to make it easy for Romney to coast to victory, as delegate selection expert Josh Putnam, a Davidson College political scientist, writes on his Frontloading HQ blog.

Paul’s highly organized campaign continues to amass what Mr. Putnam labels “stealth delegates” – delegates pledged to Romney, or one of the withdrawn GOP candidates – who are personally in favor of the libertarian congressman from Texas. It’s hard to determine how many such folks Paul has, or what they’ll do in Tampa.

For instance, what if Paul supporters who are bound to vote for Romney in the first round by state rules simply abstain from casting their ballots? That might keep Romney under the 1,144 votes he needs to win the nomination – even if he actually (sort of) has those votes in hand!

“This is a tricky maneuver, but not one that is prohibited by the Republican Party delegate selection rules,” writes Putnam in a lengthy post devoted to the ways Paul could make trouble for Romney.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/DC-Decoder/Decoder-Wire/2012/0507/Why-Ron-Paul-s-big-wins-in-Maine-and-Nevada-matter-video

From his blog:

That triggers the second part of the strategy: Paul-supportive but Romney-bound delegates abstaining on the first vote. This is a tricky maneuver, but not one that is prohibited by the Republican Party delegate selection rules. It does, however, run up against state-level delegate rules that in some cases legally bind delegates to a particular candidate through one or more ballots at the national convention. But that is uncharted waters in this process. How does one take such a challenge of the rules to court in a way that resolves the issue expeditiously within the window of time in which the party is meeting in Tampa? It doesn't. The result is probably a huge embarrassment for Mitt Romney and the Republican Party; not something it wants when attempting to successfully challenge a vulnerable incumbent president.

http://frontloading.blogspot.com/

kill the banks
05-07-2012, 06:53 PM
thx

tsai3904
05-07-2012, 06:57 PM
Yes, it can be done as it was done in 2008. Here's a history of the 08 National Convention:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?373110-History-of-2008-Republican-National-Convention

In Nevada, the State GOP Secretary said that if delegates abstain, they will be replaced by alternates. The rules are probably different for every state.

kathy88
05-07-2012, 06:57 PM
This gets better and better by the minute. What a show!

FSP-Rebel
05-07-2012, 07:03 PM
Groovy. Meanwhile, Mitt Romney, the presumptive nominee, is campaigning in Michigan today. You know, I've crossed the rubicon and have turned off talk radio in favor of just news radio, yet I've been getting bombarded all evening during drive time with this crap. Next up, I'll be turning to sports talk radio where I don't have to hear any of this claptrap.

zachrbroussard
05-07-2012, 07:05 PM
Reagan asked his delegates to do it...

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=888&dat=19760721&id=EadjAAAAIBAJ&sjid=c10DAAAAIBAJ&pg=2781%2C3455627

Yieu
05-07-2012, 07:16 PM
Reagan asked his delegates to do it...

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=888&dat=19760721&id=EadjAAAAIBAJ&sjid=c10DAAAAIBAJ&pg=2781%2C3455627

This is amazing... we should capitalize on the fact that Regan did this.

MozoVote
05-07-2012, 07:22 PM
In Nevada, the State GOP Secretary said that if delegates abstain, they will be replaced by alternates. The rules are probably different for every state.
Yeah most of the state delegation chairmen would do EXACTLY that. But that's also part of why Romney is challenging the Massachusetts results. He does not want the Paulites to nominate their own chairmen who could aquiesce to abstentions.

Paulistinian
05-07-2012, 07:22 PM
Yes, it can be done as it was done in 2008. Here's a history of the 08 National Convention:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?373110-History-of-2008-Republican-National-Convention

In Nevada, the State GOP Secretary said that if delegates abstain, they will be replaced by alternates. The rules are probably different for every state.y'know..... I just thought of something...m we control the delegates and the alternates in Nevada, so why not have our first delegates abstain on the first ballot, stop Romney from tting his 1144 then the delegates are unbound and the alternates (also Paul supporters) will be free to vote for Ron!!!! An thos? Am I crazy or would that work??

MrGoose
05-07-2012, 07:40 PM
y'know..... I just thought of something...m we control the delegates and the alternates in Nevada, so why not have our first delegates abstain on the first ballot, stop Romney from tting his 1144 then the delegates are unbound and the alternates (also Paul supporters) will be free to vote for Ron!!!! An thos? Am I crazy or would that work??That sounds like it could work for that one state, but if we can find a way to get all the other states with our delegates to abstain then it would be more likely for us to make it to a second ballot.

Drex
05-07-2012, 07:50 PM
http://t.qkme.me/3p6fjz.jpg

BrooklynZoo
05-07-2012, 08:00 PM
y'know..... I just thought of something...m we control the delegates and the alternates in Nevada, so why not have our first delegates abstain on the first ballot, stop Romney from tting his 1144 then the delegates are unbound and the alternates (also Paul supporters) will be free to vote for Ron!!!! An thos? Am I crazy or would that work??

We do NOT control the alternate delegates in Nevada. The way the Party arranged things (to benefit the establishment in this sort of situation) is that delegates and alternates were all voted on together as one list of candidates, all arranged from top to bottom vote-getter. Once the slots were filled up for delegates, the alternates are the ones who had fewer votes, which in three out of four CDs is Romney's slate. Thus replacing the delegates with alternates would give all of Nevada to Romney.

The CD2 delegates are the Romney delegates, so they would not abstain and not be replaced with the 4th, 5th and 6th place vote-getters, the CD2 Paul slate. Romney would get all delegates if they succeeded in replacing them with alternates

rich34
05-07-2012, 08:10 PM
Lets hope and pray not. Besides I'm sure that side is to arrogant to play such a strategy. In their minds Mitt had it all along and Ron didn't have a chance in hell. Literally.

BKom
05-07-2012, 08:42 PM
y'know..... I just thought of something...m we control the delegates and the alternates in Nevada, so why not have our first delegates abstain on the first ballot, stop Romney from tting his 1144 then the delegates are unbound and the alternates (also Paul supporters) will be free to vote for Ron!!!! An thos? Am I crazy or would that work??

Not going to work. Virtually every alternate is a Romney delegate. We only got one vote, so we had to concentrate on the delegates and forget about the alternates.

juvanya
05-07-2012, 09:29 PM
In Nevada, the State GOP Secretary said that if delegates abstain, they will be replaced by alternates. The rules are probably different for every state.This seems like bullshit. How is that even enforceable?

Vanilluxe
05-07-2012, 09:32 PM
This seems like bullshit. How is that even enforceable?

Easy, the head of the Nevada delegate congregation would take a look at all the votes the delegation and null the Paul votes, the Romney camp has too many tricks up his sleeves; they always play dirty.

J_White
05-07-2012, 10:35 PM
interesting. need more in depth knowledge about rules regarding this.
but then again, Mitt's spies here would have informed their campaign, that this is in the works.
maybe thats why they are scared a bit and want to control all the delegations.
because if he was so sure he will get all the votes, then why care about these 50 delegates ?

DamianTV
05-08-2012, 01:16 AM
Yes, it can be done as it was done in 2008. Here's a history of the 08 National Convention:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?373110-History-of-2008-Republican-National-Convention

In Nevada, the State GOP Secretary said that if delegates abstain, they will be replaced by alternates. The rules are probably different for every state.

And our Alternates are ALL Romney supporters. Wont work for us, but maybe for other states.

speciallyblend
05-08-2012, 01:25 AM
http://t.qkme.me/3p6fjz.jpg


hahahahahah lmfao, that is classic right der.

parocks
05-08-2012, 01:34 AM
This is amazing... we should capitalize on the fact that Regan did this.

And that Ron Paul was one of the delegates for Reagan in 1976 himself.

And that Reagan/Paul in 1976 would have been better than Ford/Dole, who lost to Carter.

porchdog
05-08-2012, 02:17 AM
I would hate to think that the revolution failed due to the rules had to be followed. I hope our delegates find the courage to wage this war on our behalf, God go with you into the belly of the beist, and may you wrest a victory for the constitution from those who would use rules to enslave us all.

Paulistinian
05-08-2012, 02:18 AM
We do NOT control the alternate delegates in Nevada. The way the Party arranged things (to benefit the establishment in this sort of situation) is that delegates and alternates were all voted on together as one list of candidates, all arranged from top to bottom vote-getter. Once the slots were filled up for delegates, the alternates are the ones who had fewer votes, which in three out of four CDs is Romney's slate. Thus replacing the delegates with alternates would give all of Nevada to Romney.

The CD2 delegates are the Romney delegates, so they would not abstain and not be replaced with the 4th, 5th and 6th place vote-getters, the CD2 Paul slate. Romney would get all delegates if they succeeded in replacing them with alternates Aha! Thank you for that info...

RickyJ
05-08-2012, 02:27 AM
http://t.qkme.me/3p6fjz.jpg

I think Romney can offer a lot of money to delegates to vote his way, so who knows?

He already paid people to sign wave for him in Miami.

devil21
05-08-2012, 02:38 AM
This seems like bullshit. How is that even enforceable?

It's really not enforcable at the most basic level. If Romney wants to totally disenfranchise at least half of the RNC crowd (my estimate) then he's going to love going on stage to accept his nomination with A HUGE AMOUNT OF BOOS ON CAMERA. Nevermind his VP's intro. The media will have a fuckin field day with it and his entire campaign will be DOA before it leaves Tampa. No shit.

I've said it before, saying it again. The Party dies if it doesn't nominate Ron Paul. We keep turning out our delegates around the country and they have no choice but to play our game at a political level. Their alternative is to try to purge Paul delegates before the RNC, no matter the cost. This will also kill the party because there will be so many ppl thoroughly fed up that the party will be burned to the ground.

(I bet the globalists would love it though....sigh)

parocks
05-08-2012, 03:11 AM
We do NOT control the alternate delegates in Nevada. The way the Party arranged things (to benefit the establishment in this sort of situation) is that delegates and alternates were all voted on together as one list of candidates, all arranged from top to bottom vote-getter. Once the slots were filled up for delegates, the alternates are the ones who had fewer votes, which in three out of four CDs is Romney's slate. Thus replacing the delegates with alternates would give all of Nevada to Romney.

The CD2 delegates are the Romney delegates, so they would not abstain and not be replaced with the 4th, 5th and 6th place vote-getters, the CD2 Paul slate. Romney would get all delegates if they succeeded in replacing them with alternates

When was that rule voted on? Why was that rule unable to be changed.

parocks
05-08-2012, 03:12 AM
It's really not enforcable at the most basic level. If Romney wants to totally disenfranchise at least half of the RNC crowd (my estimate) then he's going to love going on stage to accept his nomination with A HUGE AMOUNT OF BOOS ON CAMERA. Nevermind his VP's intro. The media will have a fuckin field day with it and his entire campaign will be DOA before it leaves Tampa. No shit.

I've said it before, saying it again. The Party dies if it doesn't nominate Ron Paul. We keep turning out our delegates around the country and they have no choice but to play our game at a political level. Their alternative is to try to purge Paul delegates before the RNC, no matter the cost. This will also kill the party because there will be so many ppl thoroughly fed up that the party will be burned to the ground.

(I bet the globalists would love it though....sigh)

Wow. That's a plausible scenario.

What happens if Romney just plays everything straight. If he just starts being fair, not challenging every loss at every convention. It is said that Romney has or will have enough delegates to win. I heard that on tv. Not saying it's true. But what if Romney starts acting like what is said about him is actually true. And is nice, and tries to entice a few Santorum or Gingrich supporters. And let's say Romney wins. Are we booing this whole time? If he starts being fair? Yes, there's enough reason already to boo, but if Romney starts acting like he's won it (that's what the tv says
, it means we win a lot more delegates and stealth delegates. It means that Romney stops campaigning, really. No robocalls to lists of delegates. After all, he's won already. How can there be races in campaigns that are over?

devil21
05-08-2012, 03:19 AM
It's the only scenarios that are possible at this point. It'll get worse as the Paul delegates win more RNC spots. I suspect the Party knows this and that's why the media is suddenly talking about Ron Paul again. They're trying to lull us into a false sense of security and get us distracted by the satisfaction of a few wins here and there. We can't let up. Like a football team up 14-10, we need to march down the field for that last touchdown to put the game away.

devil21
05-08-2012, 03:29 AM
Wow. That's a plausible scenario.

What happens if Romney just plays everything straight. If he just starts being fair, not challenging every loss at every convention. It is said that Romney has or will have enough delegates to win. I heard that on tv. Not saying it's true. But what if Romney starts acting like what is said about him is actually true. And is nice, and tries to entice a few Santorum or Gingrich supporters. And let's say Romney wins. Are we booing this whole time? If he starts being fair? Yes, there's enough reason already to boo, but if Romney starts acting like he's won it (that's what the tv says
, it means we win a lot more delegates and stealth delegates. It means that Romney stops campaigning, really. No robocalls to lists of delegates. After all, he's won already. How can there be races in campaigns that are over?

Nobody but Paul. Did you post on that thread? If so then you know the answer to your own question.

Why anyone would believe Romney is being "fair" is beyond me. That man wants to be President more than he wants to live. He and his people will do ANYTHING to try to ensure that. The thing is, we're smarter than they are and we show it. Im sexy and I know it! Romney stopping campaigning doesn't change our delegate strategy. The RNC is all about appearances. The production and showmanship. It's on tv for like 3 days straight! The more Paulites we get to Tampa, the bigger impact we have on the outcome.

parocks
05-08-2012, 04:31 AM
Nobody but Paul. Did you post on that thread? If so then you know the answer to your own question.

Why anyone would believe Romney is being "fair" is beyond me. That man wants to be President more than he wants to live. He and his people will do ANYTHING to try to ensure that. The thing is, we're smarter than they are and we show it. Im sexy and I know it! Romney stopping campaigning doesn't change our delegate strategy. The RNC is all about appearances. The production and showmanship. It's on tv for like 3 days straight! The more Paulites we get to Tampa, the bigger impact we have on the outcome.

You seem to be arguing that our behavior will not change based on Romney's behavior? Do you read Doug Wead's stuff at all. On at least 2 occasions he makes reference to 2 opposing Romney camps. One I think he calls the Hawks, who think that we should be fought all the way. The other I think he calls the Angels, who think that they shouldn't be worried about us too much.

Romney is in a bit of a rock and a hard place situation. He takes the Hawk approach, and he might cut down on our number of delegates, but every weekend there's a new installment of "do you want to elect as President a guy who acts like this?" "Fighting pretty dirty for someone who has already won, aren't you Mitt?" Every weekend there will be new footage of Ben Ginsberg delaying conventions.

Liberty74
05-08-2012, 04:58 AM
Sorry but by state law, bound delegates have to vote a certain way. It does matter what the RNC says. A delegate is going to Tampa to represent their state. There are a few states that morally have to vote a certain way albeit not legally binding such as PA. So in that case, Paul could prevail. I posted the wiki link on another thread that displayed everything per state in a nice chart. Check it out so some of know what your talking about instead of assuming things that aren't true.

freedomordeath
05-08-2012, 05:44 AM
At the end of the day, we get as many delagates in as possible, litterally shake the house with vocal support for Ron Paul, I mean these guys must go crazy infront of all thse news cameras, with a million poeple circling around the convention building 7 times each day with bull horns and we take it over by SHEER WILL!!!!

We have the most intellegent supporters and if the delgates feel we're gonna lose anyways, they might as well go for broke, but I agree all the possible angles must be covered which the Romeny spies are sure to read.

freedomordeath
05-08-2012, 05:50 AM
inspiration, lets get some youtube footage up of the Reagan take over of convention to inspire this movement

http://youtu.be/fRpL0dgz1b4

whippoorwill
05-08-2012, 05:56 AM
Are we the alternates as well?

Yes, it can be done as it was done in 2008. Here's a history of the 08 National Convention:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?373110-History-of-2008-Republican-National-Convention

In Nevada, the State GOP Secretary said that if delegates abstain, they will be replaced by alternates. The rules are probably different for every state.

freedomordeath
05-08-2012, 05:57 AM
or this one... brilliant THIS COULD BE RON PAUL ;)))))))

http://youtu.be/RmmgVFByeaI

MikeStanart
05-08-2012, 06:30 AM
You'll likely be black-listed by your State GOP if you abstain during the first round of voting. Good luck ever becoming a National Delegate again.

Well, unless we take over state GOP's. :D

Origanalist
05-08-2012, 06:36 AM
Reagan asked his delegates to do it...

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=888&dat=19760721&id=EadjAAAAIBAJ&sjid=c10DAAAAIBAJ&pg=2781%2C3455627

Oh shit! THAT is a keeper!

+1

juvanya
05-12-2012, 03:35 PM
Easy, the head of the Nevada delegate congregation would take a look at all the votes the delegation and null the Paul votes, the Romney camp has too many tricks up his sleeves; they always play dirty.Oh the head takes a ballot and presents it? I thought it was all voted on the floor or by roll call or something

dude58677
05-12-2012, 03:37 PM
Let's not get ahead of ourselves. We still have to get the delegates from the State GOP's first.

sailingaway
05-12-2012, 03:37 PM
Oh the head takes a ballot and presents it? I thought it was all voted on the floor or by roll call or something

they will do it by acclaimation if they can get away with it but if you have 6 states object to that, it will be by roll call. Note, that vote on roll call or no roll call is independent of any 'binding' on vote for nominee, as are many things.

mport1
05-12-2012, 03:45 PM
We need to make sure that all Ron Paul supporters who are supposed to vote for another candidate know this. We need all of them to abstain.

jay_dub
05-12-2012, 04:04 PM
Wow. That's a plausible scenario.

What happens if Romney just plays everything straight. If he just starts being fair, not challenging every loss at every convention. It is said that Romney has or will have enough delegates to win. I heard that on tv. Not saying it's true. But what if Romney starts acting like what is said about him is actually true. And is nice, and tries to entice a few Santorum or Gingrich supporters. And let's say Romney wins. Are we booing this whole time? If he starts being fair? Yes, there's enough reason already to boo, but if Romney starts acting like he's won it (that's what the tv says
, it means we win a lot more delegates and stealth delegates. It means that Romney stops campaigning, really. No robocalls to lists of delegates. After all, he's won already. How can there be races in campaigns that are over?

That's what gets me. Romney actions on the ground don't reflect a guy that has it won. Common sense says that, if you have won, you can afford to play fair, back off the shenanigans and be nice to the RP supporters in hopes of party unity, which Romney absolutely needs if he is to have a ghost of a chance against Obama.

We're all doing a lot of speculation, but I think both campaigns are aware of just where they stand and their actions reflect that.