SCREENSHOT: The Original Founding Fathers Ad that ran in NH

[max]

Here is the original version that I ran in NH Unuion Leader in full color...(except George washington appeared first)

Carol Paul loved it...64 donors from this forum loved it...the feedback was great...and it got our generous patron fired up...

Given Paul's steady climb in NH...it looks as if this didnt exactly sink his campaign did it?

as you can see....all of its emotional punch has been surgically removed by this latest "consensus" Presidents Day sale ad....

i'm glad that an ad is still running....but its a shame that the efectiveness will be greatly diminished...

old adage in advertisng....the revised version of an original idea is always worse than the first concept


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=31223&page=2

[Lord Xar]

Once you put something out there and let everyone comment and comment and comment, then you are left with a shell of what was there originally.

Everyone has an opinion, but most of those opinions are NOT those of a common NH person, nor are 'we' unbiased. -- so criticism is always gonna be outside what mainstream might need.

I would suggest that criticsim should be brought to NON RON PAUL supporters first.

my 2 cents.

[BLS]

Once you put something out there and let everyone comment and comment and comment, then you are left with a shell of what was there originally.

Everyone has an opinion, but most of those opinions are NOT those of a common NH person, nor are 'we' unbiased. -- so criticism is always gonna be outside what mainstream might need.

I would suggest that criticsim should be brought to NON RON PAUL supporters first.

my 2 cents.

Remind you of anything Lord Xar?;) it's like Iowa all over again, except alot more people, and none of which have any money invested. it's actually kind of funny.

Llepard should just run whatever he thinks is right.
It's HIS money.

[max]

Remind you of anything Lord Xar?;) it's like Iowa all over again, except alot more people, and none of which have any money invested. it's actually kind of funny.

Llepard should just run whatever he thinks is right.
It's HIS money.

you guys had to deal with the same crap for the Iowa ad?

doesnt surprise me...

i remember the abuse Hamedah had to deal with when he ran the muslim ad talking about the israeli lobby...

and then there was the whole V tempest in a tea-pot..

constructive criticism is great for fine tuning....but overhauls of an original concept always diminish the initial "wow" effect

[kevman657]

I'm lost. There are way too many threads on this forum to keep up with anything anymore. Carol Paul loved it? What does that mean, she told y'all she loved it or something?

And how did this almost ruin the NH campaign? I'm sooo confused...

[max]

I'm lost. There are way too many threads on this forum to keep up with anything anymore. Carol Paul loved it? What does that mean, she told y'all she loved it or something?

And how did this almost ruin the NH campaign? I'm sooo confused...

a nh supporter showed it both her and rp at a private function..

rp smiled but didnt get to read the whole thing...carol read the ad and commented positively on it...and also autographed it..

it didnt "ruin" nh...i was being sarcastic

[happyphilter]

I agree it has been watered down, but the target is not ron paul supporters, its people who do not know about him, or may not have even heard about him. We all love the really deep wonderful pieces of art, whether it be youtube movies, or art work such as the first founding fathers ad, but thats because we already know about Ron Paul and nothing anyone says is going to change the fact we are going to vote for him.

A while ago I showed some people fliers that someone had printed out, none of them had heard of ron paul. Half said they loved the guy, and the other half said he was too radical because of the ideas on the flier, although everything on the flier was fact. The point is that we need to ease people into ron pauls ideas, these are things not many people have heard before, and most people dont like a lot of change. So lets let people hear about ron paul, and get interested in him, and let them find out for themselfs what he is all about.

You can lead a horse to water,but you cannot make it drink.

[1000-points-of-fright]

The Iowa mosaic ad process was insane. Imagine what Hamedah had to go through plus the V controversy all crammed into a six hour period from midnight to 6am with real time criticism of every minor detail (not to mention those who hated the entire concept) for every version of the ad for 50 people.

It was fun.

[Lord Xar]

you guys had to deal with the same crap for the Iowa ad?

doesnt surprise me...

i remember the abuse Hamedah had to deal with when he ran the muslim ad talking about the israeli lobby...

and then there was the whole V tempest in a tea-pot..

constructive criticism is great for fine tuning....but overhauls of an original concept always diminish the initial "wow" effect

Yeah. It sours the process. Luckily I learned fast and I now use a select 3 or 4 people for criticism. If I need more, I contact the people I trust and ask for their opinions.. BUT a fullon free for all, forget it. Estimate 20% are bogus and stearing you wrong and the rest just mixes everything up. Things like this, imho, need to be drafted and criticised by a select few in addition to Non-Ron Paul supporters.

I feel bad for those bryan and ilepard because it starts getting so much that you start to question your own judgement and then you are afraid of making every little mistake.

"don't use the word 'take' right there..." it will turn people off!
"don't say 'never has', because one time in 1980 he did... and people will be pissed"

[Lord Xar]

The Iowa mosaic ad process was insane. Imagine what Hamedah had to go through plus the V controversy all crammed into a six hour period from midnight to 6am with real time criticism of every minor detail (not to mention those who hated the entire concept) for every version of the ad for 50 people.

It was fun.

ahhh, the good ol' days! ahahhah

[LibertyEagle]

Max,
Even you didn't stay with what you are pointing to in your post.
http://www.unitedforliberty.com/assets/front.jpg

This is what went in the paper.
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/Geronimo1918/openletterad.jpg

[Man from La Mancha]

Max thanks for the work you have done, but looking it at thru my 19" vertical monitor I like the balance and layout of the new black and white ad.IMO

.

[kipload]

Imo This Ad Is At Least Worded A Lot Better And It Doesn't Have What Ron Paul "will Do..." After Each Bullet Point. This One Works. Please Take Ques From This Design. Please.

[Tidewise]

Please don't let this awesome ad get watered down. It rocks. Keep it that way.

[max]

Max thanks for the work you have done, but looking it at thru my 19" vertical monitor I like the balance and layout of the new black and white ad.IMO

.

i wasnt talking about layout....my complaint is all the good lines taken out.....the message is watered down

[Man from La Mancha]

i wasnt talking about layout....my complaint is all the good lines taken out.....the message is watered down
I just meant the founders looking in and the bigger picture of Ron, yes it has been watered down but I think they mean well.

.

[Proemio]

Yeah. It sours the process. Luckily I learned fast and I now use a select 3 or 4 people for criticism. ... ... Estimate 20% are bogus and stearing you wrong...

Good for you and good for all... and yes, there are celebrations, without a doubt.

If consensus would be the natural way, we would still be living in caves. The consensus would have been to stay in there, guaranteed - think about it.

Ron Paul, MD, talked somewhere about the trap of consensus. I can't find it, but hopefully will before this runs completely off the rails (ten more versions would actually help right now).

The problem is not the graphic design - it's good, with the first one better - it's the content from the disabled hook to the convoluted content flow.

Just repeat this for the hell of it:

It's a tragedy and a travesty - the whole damned thing.

A great effort (once again) turned into a "wet blanket by committee" - sad.

Example: First, complaints about too much text, then the crucial Warnings of the Founders are muddled with what Ron Paul will do - he would obviously fix it, based on principle - it's implied, it's obvious. The readers are not dopes, even if they are not yet paulianized.

BTW, only Dr. Paul, MD has the standing to put on record what he WILL do.
We can quote him and we can paraphrase him, but we cannot unequivocally engage for him...

I just hope the guy who pays for it pulls the plug on this madness, and goes back to what inspired him in the first place (typos excluded).

Wonders - What if the November 5th creators would have listened...

Pulling 'authority' is something I loath, but for the cause; I've done advertising for 40 years and do know a thing or two about how and why it works. For those who rightly say "so what", study David Ogilvy, spy, agent for the Queen, pollster for Gallup, and "Father of Advertisement"...

[Proemio]

I just meant the founders looking in and the bigger picture of Ron, yes it has been watered down but I think they mean well.

.

Most do, no doubt. So did most who voted for Bush, etc...

But I'm confident you'd agree that in the final analysis, this movement is not about protecting feelings, but creating the energy that wins the day. And since we don't own the printing presses for the stuff, like the dark-side does, we have to aim for the biggest bang for the for the comparatively limited money we have.

Besides, with what transpires, my feelings are hurt, and nobody gives a damn...;)

Once the ad is published - one way or another - I'll stop obsessing about it.
Truth be known, I had reservatons about November 5th, but kept quiet, because I wasn't sure that I grasped the concept in it's entirety. So glad I did, and that the creators/organizers had the fortitude to stick to their guns - aren't we all?

[work2win]

The ad has improved and will appeal a little better now.

I think there is a bell-curve for this sort of thing. There is a period of time when you open up for critism/suggestions that you get some good ideas and expose the bad ones contained in the ad. After a while you drift into nit-picking and debatable preference. I think we hit that wall back around draft 3.

I think the biggest mistake you can make is not getting input from a wide array of people. The good ideas will stand out, and if you are honest with yourself, you will recognize them.

[TruckinMike]

It'll do... but the first ad was more powerful. It sounded more like something they would say.. it had a stronger conviction to it.

"issue a final warning" vs "advise us once again"

thats something my eight grade school teacher would have come up with... Which has more power... the first or the second?

Give me a break! People, stop being so scared. Its like little annie wus wus made the revisions. Its been emasculated:eek:

TruckinMike

[Pete Kay]

Max, I hadn't seen your original ad before and I have to say that it is much better than the 1st draft that llepard posted. The problem with that draft was that the letter from the Founders was mixed with promotion of Ron Paul after every warning. This came across as very forced and seemed like a cheap way to use the Founders to push for Ron Paul. Your original at least seperated the Founders message from the Ron Paul information. I think the changes that were made from your New Hampshire ad to the 1st draft that llepard showed is what caused the offense. It turned what was supposed to be an imaginary letter from the Founders admonishing the American people into a cheap political promotion for Ron Paul since it didn't have a clear sense of perspective.

I think that if the USA Today ad was written and formatted just like your New Hampshire ad, then there wouldn't be a problem. I was a very active critic of the 1st draft because of the issue with the Founders. I think that your New Hampshire ad was much more tasteful in the way that it incorporated the message from the Founders. Please understand that it was not the concept that was offensive, it was the execution.

[Proemio]

...
I think the biggest mistake you can make is not getting input from a wide array of people. The good ideas will stand out, and if you are honest with yourself, you will recognize them.
Standard disclaimer: This rant is not directed at you personally. You provided the impetus, and for that I am grateful.

That's fine, if that floats your boat, but then you need a Xar to Lord over what is an actual improvement, what is nitpicking, and what weakens the original intent.
52 changes? Was the original draft really that incompetent?

Look, it's not rocket science:
Most people are at least worried a bit about the war, the economy or both. Christmas approaching acts as a multiplier. There is the question of how did we get in this mess, even if it's just subliminal. There is at least a slight anxiety, watching the politicians engaged in their usual fiddling, while Rom is burning.

Now, you find yourself looking at four, faintly familiar faces, with a big "We warned you" and smaller text underneath promising some relief to your worries. Each successive warning will build on the growing resentment that the four guys knew what was coming, left 'instructions', but obviously nobody even attempted to take care of the store.... except, then you get to - yup.

Are you gonna gobble it up? Most bloody likely. It's not like me telling someone "Told you so"; the reader is not being made fun of or embarrassed in public. The responsibility/failure rests clearly with those betraying their solemn trust/oats, for decades. The more intelligent ones will feel a bit of responsibility, which will at worst energize their growing anger and get them on board - motivated.

On top of that, you can expect a double-whammy, if and when a bit of controversy - about a 'daring' concept - gets into the news. Every hit will be like running the ad again. If, because they were smart enough, not to help us out with the NH ad. This time around - with national circulation - they might not have the discipline to resist.

An open letter? NGOs, and other lobby outfits, do the open letters thingy all year long. It's usually for money, and most people will likely check their pocketbook at this point - at least mentally.

Fact is; you only have a split second before the attention goes to the next item screaming for it. Ever read every detail in an ad for something you absolutely don't need? That was a great ad. It had to have a powerful hook.

[max]

Max, I hadn't seen your original ad before and I have to say that it is much better than the 1st draft that llepard posted. The problem with that draft was that the letter from the Founders was mixed with promotion of Ron Paul after every warning. This came across as very forced and seemed like a cheap way to use the Founders to push for Ron Paul. Your original at least seperated the Founders message from the Ron Paul information. I think the changes that were made from your New Hampshire ad to the 1st draft that llepard showed is what caused the offense. It turned what was supposed to be an imaginary letter from the Founders admonishing the American people into a cheap political promotion for Ron Paul since it didn't have a clear sense of perspective.

I think that if the USA Today ad was written and formatted just like your New Hampshire ad, then there wouldn't be a problem. I was a very active critic of the 1st draft because of the issue with the Founders. I think that your New Hampshire ad was much more tasteful in the way that it incorporated the message from the Founders. Please understand that it was not the concept that was offensive, it was the execution.


my sentiments exactly....the parantheticals make it seem like a presidents day ad...."George Washington says, buy a washer and dryer for just $499"..

it takes away from the solemn message of the founders

[thomj76]

The Iowa mosaic ad process was insane. Imagine what Hamedah had to go through plus the V controversy all crammed into a six hour period from midnight to 6am with real time criticism of every minor detail (not to mention those who hated the entire concept) for every version of the ad for 50 people.

It was fun.



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