Help make this go viral: Kokesh on the presidential candidates and supporting the troops

[ClydeCoulter]

Must Watch and Like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlg45UcomRI


Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/TheLoneCoyote/status/196680792028618753



edit: same video as above but uploaded on Kokesh's youtube channel with less offensive title


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_9Hv9ACjgg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_9Hv9ACjgg

[Origanalist]

No, I will not.

[zHorns]

The title is really bad.

You don't build bridges, by saying people who vote for Obama/Romney "f--- the troops".

To them, they are doing what they believe is right.

[ClydeCoulter]

While I don't agree with Adam Kokesh's approach, I appreciate his desire to really support the troops. No, perhaps some will take offense, but will some *think* for a moment while watching it?

[mczerone]

The title is really bad.

You don't build bridges, by saying people who vote for Obama/Romney "fuck the troops".

To them, they are doing what they believe is right.

And how better than to convince them otherwise than shocking their senses?

We can't keep playing nice with the people that support indiscriminate violence, violations of people's rights, and general economic devastation. They are f-ing over the troops, and they need to be told so. Tying a yellow ribbon outside your house (or putting a flag magnet on your car) simply isn't supporting the troops. And voting for another big-govt statist is most definitely placing them into harm's way in order to shore up the bottom line of some mega-corporations, all the while further compromising the prospects for peace in the world.

I'm not saying that everyone HAS to get behind this effort - but it seems to me to be a good way to give a nice "shock" treatment to those who are blissfully oblivious to what the establishment choices actually present as options.

[dbill27]

Adam actually was a soldier, and sorry if the title might "offend" people, but they can go fuck themselves because hundreds of thousands of innocent lives being lost offends me more than language.

[RickyJ]

If he left out the "fuck you" part and inserted something else like "I don't care about you", then I would share this. It is OK except for the "fuck you" part. Some people get really offended at language like that.

[zHorns]

If he left out the "fuck you" part and inserted something else like "I don't care about you", then I would share this. It is OK except for the "fuck you" part. Some people get really offended at language like that.

Exactly, try to build bridges with the elderly, social-right and old veterans with that (aka the people we need).

My father in law is a disabled vet. I've worked years trying to convert him to Paul. He likes Paul, other than the foreign policy, even though I've explained in from multiple fronts and in great detail. I wouldn't win him over by telling him he's "f--king the troops."

[dalys4peace]

I really like this video. Raw truth. I posted it on Facebook with the title "Excuse me if this offends anyone, but just listen to the whole thing.
WARNING: THIS VIDEO MAY CAUSE YOU TO QUESTION WHAT YOU THINK" and in a comment I quoted mczerone's post up there.

Now is not the time to tip toe around things that might offend. If its the truth, that is.

[mczerone]

If he left out the "fuck you" part and inserted something else like "I don't care about you", then I would share this. It is OK except for the "fuck you" part. Some people get really offended at language like that.

And I get really offended by the never ending war.

It's time to offend some people, to rock the g-damned boat, to show people that they are getting raped in the f-ing ass. You don't want to be offended by some little words? Well Fuck you. Fuck you and your thieving criminal "leaders" who constantly offend every sacred fiber of my being with your warfare/welfare state, your collectivism, and your holier-than-thou pharisee-ism.

It's POWERFUL because it's taboo. It's moving because you flinch at it. It's going to recruit more people than it turns off because it's fucking true.

[dalys4peace]

Now if I had a different demographic of friends on Facebook I may think twice. I have a lot of young friends who use that language already.

[Origanalist]

This video would be a poison pill outside infowars and this site. If you think you're going to get converts with this you're out of your mind. Talk about cutting of your nose to spite your face, give me a break.

[zHorns]

And I get really offended by the never ending war.

It's time to offend some people, to rock the g-damned boat, to show people that they are getting raped in the f-ing ass. You don't want to be offended by some little words? Well Fuck you. Fuck you and your thieving criminal "leaders" who constantly offend every sacred fiber of my being with your warfare/welfare state, your collectivism, and your holier-than-thou pharisee-ism.

It's POWERFUL because it's taboo. It's moving because you flinch at it. It's going to recruit more people than it turns off because it's fucking true.

It doesn't matter whether you're right or not.

You don't get the voter base (elderly, women, social-right) that we need by using words and phrases like that.

Even, as we work on this upcoming Moneybomb, we are looking for positive ways of courting Santroum and Newt supporters. We don't win them by saying Santorum and Newt were terrible choices. We find common ground and show them why Paul is the logical next choice.

[VBRonPaulFan]

If he left out the "fuck you" part and inserted something else like "I don't care about you", then I would share this. It is OK except for the "fuck you" part. Some people get really offended at language like that.

yeah, the retards that get offended at language like this are usually the 'good, upstanding folk' that support candidates that openly endorse throwing more and more of our kids overseas to die for pet projects that make them rich. but yeah, good point. we definitely wouldn't want to offend those guys

[mczerone]

Exactly, try to build bridges with the elderly, social-right and old veterans with that (aka the people we need).

My father in law is a disable vet. I've worked years trying to convert him to Paul. He likes Paul, other than the foreign policy, even though I've explained in from multiple fronts and in great detail. I wouldn't win him over by telling he is "f--king the troops."

Take off the kid-gloves and treat him like a real veteran. A real adult who has seen war. Tell him the unadulterated truth.

You can try to make it softer and nicer - but he's not going to respond. Get in there and use language that by it's very nature wakes him up.

Really, if nothing else has worked at this point, what's the loss in trying? Go in there and tell him that a vote for Romney or Obama is a vote to fuck the troops, fuck the economy, and fuck our chances at peace and prosperity - and let it sink in.

He might be offended, but I guarantee that the conversation will stick with him. He won't be able to dismiss it. He'll not be able to refute it.

It will make him uncomfortable, and rightly so.

Offend him. But make sure that he knows that it comes from a position of love, of respect, of caring. That's what this video does - it shows that we care about the troops, and it shows that the other guys not only don't care, but they expect to be able to use them as disposable heroes to drudge up more conflict and keep entrenched interests rolling in the dough.

Be an adult, and use your big-boy words, and I bet your disabled veteran father-in-law would respect you a whole lot more.

[zHorns]

Take off the kid-gloves and treat him like a real veteran. A real adult who has seen war. Tell him the unadulterated truth.

You can try to make it softer and nicer - but he's not going to respond. Get in there and use language that by it's very nature wakes him up.

Really, if nothing else has worked at this point, what's the loss in trying? Go in there and tell him that a vote for Romney or Obama is a vote to fuck the troops, fuck the economy, and fuck our chances at peace and prosperity - and let it sink in.

He might be offended, but I guarantee that the conversation will stick with him. He won't be able to dismiss it. He'll not be able to refute it.

It will make him uncomfortable, and rightly so.

Offend him. But make sure that he knows that it comes from a position of love, of respect, of caring. That's what this video does - it shows that we care about the troops, and it shows that the other guys not only don't care, but they expect to be able to use them as disposable heroes to drudge up more conflict and keep entrenched interests rolling in the dough.

Be an adult, and use your big-boy words, and I bet your disabled veteran father-in-law would respect you a whole lot more.

He and his wife plan to vote for Paul (Kentucky primary May 22), not because of his foreign policy, but because they think he's honest.

I find the best way to win people over is trying to find common ground.

[ClydeCoulter]

Exactly, try to build bridges with the elderly, social-right and old veterans with that (aka the people we need).

My father in law is a disabled vet. I've worked years trying to convert him to Paul. He likes Paul, other than the foreign policy, even though I've explained in from multiple fronts and in great detail. I wouldn't win him over by telling him he's "f--king the troops."

I agree, but the elderly are probably not the ones that will be watching this. This might, just might reach some of the Santy youngers?

Ron's foreign policy turns off many, maybe some of them might think for themselves for a moment.

[mczerone]

It doesn't matter whether you're right or not.

You don't get the voter base (elderly, women, social-right) that we need by using words and phrases like that.

Even, as we work on this upcoming Moneybomb, we are looking for positive ways of courting Santroum and Newt supporters. We don't win them by saying Santorum and Newt were terrible choices. We find common ground and show them why Paul is a lot like their ex-candidate and is the logical next choice.

Prove it.

If we keep playing the "everyone's great, but our guy's better" game, we're not going to get anywhere - and we haven't gotten anywhere using it. Some of us here on RPFs keep trying to pretend that they know what will win over these "base" voters - but it hasn't worked. Our cross-tabs with elderly, female, and evangelical voters aren't getting better by trying to pretend we know what they want to see from us.

It's past time to drop the act and tell them that Santorum was a horrible choice. Gingrich was a horrible choice. Romney is a horrible choice. Obama is a horrible choice. We're more than willing to open our ranks up to them, but they have realize what we're doing, and what the status-quo is doing. We need to lead and let them follow, not pander and hope we can infiltrate.

We don't need to get a "voter base" at this point. We need to make our own voter base, and point out how fucking cruel it is to be anywhere else.

[Feeding the Abscess]

It doesn't matter whether you're right or not.

You don't get the voter base (elderly, women, social-right) that we need by using words and phrases like that.

Even, as we work on this upcoming Moneybomb, we are looking for positive ways of courting Santroum and Newt supporters. We don't win them by saying Santorum and Newt were terrible choices. We find common ground and show them why Paul is the logical next choice.

You'll never get the elderly and socons with a libertarian message.

[zHorns]

Prove it.

If we keep playing the "everyone's great, but our guy's better" game, we're not going to get anywhere - and we haven't gotten anywhere using it. Some of us here on RPFs keep trying to pretend that they know what will win over these "base" voters - but it hasn't worked. Our cross-tabs with elderly, female, and evangelical voters aren't getting better by trying to pretend we know what they want to see from us.

It's past time to drop the act and tell them that Santorum was a horrible choice. Gingrich was a horrible choice. Romney is a horrible choice. Obama is a horrible choice. We're more than willing to open our ranks up to them, but they have realize what we're doing, and what the status-quo is doing. We need to lead and let them follow, not pander and hope we can infiltrate.

We don't need to get a "voter base" at this point. We need to make our own voter base, and point out how fucking cruel it is to be anywhere else.

Sorry, but that's the wrong approach.

Person 1: "I liked Santorum, who do you like?"
Person 2: "Santorum was a HORRIBLE choice, what are you stupid or something? I like Ron Paul."

Winning.

[culvereric]

yeah, the retards that get offended at language like this are usually the 'good, upstanding folk' that support candidates that openly endorse throwing more and more of our kids overseas to die for pet projects that make them rich. but yeah, good point. we definitely wouldn't want to offend those guys

exactly....get over yourself and start judging people based on their actions

[helmuth_hubener]

This video would be a poison pill outside infowars and this site. If you think you're going to get converts with this you're out of your mind. Talk about cutting of your nose to spite your face, give me a break. So make your own video. Problem solved.

I don't swear, period. But yet, I like this video. It has power. I don't know how he could have communicated powerfully the message he wanted to convey without being extremely "offensive." He could have used the word "screw" or something, but it still would have been extremely offensive.

Bottom line, this is a good video, and definitely not a video for everyone. I won't be forwarding it to my grandma. All the grandmas are going to be dead pretty soon anyway, though, so I don't know why everyone's so obsessed with converting them. Focus on the young and open-minded.

[ClydeCoulter]

Thanks to the mod that changed the title, to something less offensive....:) But this topic seems to be fairly hot, but still GrassRoots material.

[RickyJ]

All the grandmas are going to be dead pretty soon anyway, though, so I don't know why everyone's so obsessed with converting them.

You may not think it matters that much, but dead people have been voting for years after they die! Also we really don't have the luxury of time to wait for them to all die out, we need to win now, it is imperative to get Paul in there now in an attempt, and only an attempt, to save not only this nation but the world from the power structure that is hell bent on WW3.

[InTradePro]

Must Watch and Like:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlg45UcomRI

Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/TheLoneCoyote/status/196680792028618753

+Rep

Powerful video. Shared on fb.

[Origanalist]

I will ask you, would Ron Paul make this video? Is this video about helping RP's campaign or your fury that the world refuses to bow before your superior intellect?

You are of course free to make it and promote it. And I'm free to disassociate myself from it.

[PaulConventionWV]

I love the video and its message, but this is just not effective. You want truth? There's truth.

Imagine if the campaign made this video. The whole country would go ballistic. It's funny that Kokesh criticizes the campaign and then makes stuff like this, as if it were better.

[Feeding the Abscess]

I love the video and its message, but this is just not effective. You want truth? There's truth.

Imagine if the campaign made this video. The whole country would go ballistic. It's funny that Kokesh criticizes the campaign and then makes stuff like this, as if it were better.

From what I've gathered, Kokesh wanted the campaign to promote Ron and his entirely unique record/message, not try to package it in a way that traditional Republicans would like. That criticism is consistent with the message in the video.

[helmuth_hubener]

You may not think it matters that much, but dead people have been voting for years after they die! Good point. I truly hadn't thought of that. In light of your reminder, I recommend focusing on getting them to vote for your guy/issue after they are dead. It's an easier sell.

[Origanalist]

From what I've gathered, Kokesh wanted the campaign to promote Ron and his entirely unique record/message, not try to package it in a way that traditional Republicans would like. That criticism is consistent with the message in the video.

I'm sure Ron appreciates him deciding how the campaign should operate.

[mczerone]

Sorry, but that's the wrong approach.

Person 1: "I liked Santorum, who do you like?"
Person 2: "Santorum was a HORRIBLE choice, what are you stupid or something? I like Ron Paul."

Winning.

I didn't say to say "what are you stupid?"

I said to say "Santorum wanted to fuck the troops (as do the others). Do you want to fuck the troops?"

It's finding common ground and giving them a good kick in the pants to show them that if they care about having a respected military, "American exceptionalism," and leaving their grandkids with any semblance of a well functioning economy, then they may have made a poor choice in the past.

We're not questioning their values or logic - in fact we're recognizing that their values and logic are sound. We're just curing their ignorance (which is not the same thing as stupidity). Certainly some people can be "cured" in different ways, and I support your efforts to do what you think is the most effective.

But I think that this type of video that doesn't say "fuck you" but says that Obama and Romney are the ones doing the fucking to your vaunted "troops" is a great way to jostle people from their misinformed quiescence regardless of their personal sensitivities.

[LibertyEagle]

This video would be a poison pill outside infowars and this site. If you think you're going to get converts with this you're out of your mind. Talk about cutting of your nose to spite your face, give me a break.

I agree.

[mczerone]

I love the video and its message, but this is just not effective. You want truth? There's truth.

Imagine if the campaign made this video. The whole country would go ballistic. It's funny that Kokesh criticizes the campaign and then makes stuff like this, as if it were better.

It's better FOR HIM.

And anyway, if the campaign did this, and the "whole country [went] ballistic", would that be a bad thing? It would have been a massive media event, it would have left a lasting impression on people, and it would have made people think.

[LibertyEagle]

From what I've gathered, Kokesh wanted the campaign to promote Ron and his entirely unique record/message, not try to package it in a way that traditional Republicans would like. That criticism is consistent with the message in the video.

Paul didn't package the message in a way that conservatives would understand.

Kokesh is giving "advice" to Ron Paul? ROFLMAO. Correct me if I am wrong, but it is my understanding that Kokesh lost his own race very badly. Perhaps he shouldn't be giving "advice" to anyone as to how best to run a campaign. Ya think?

[Feeding the Abscess]

I'm sure Ron appreciates him deciding how the campaign should operate.

According to Ron's own words, Ron wanted the campaign ads to be made by the grassroots:

http://antiwar.com/radio/2011/04/23/rep-ron-paul-17/

[Feeding the Abscess]

Paul didn't package the message in a way that conservatives would understand.

Kokesh is giving "advice" to Ron Paul? ROFLMAO. Correct me if I am wrong, but it is my understanding that Kokesh lost his own race very badly. Perhaps he shouldn't be giving "advice" to anyone as to how best to run a campaign. Ya think?

Ron didn't, but the campaign attempted to.

[ClydeCoulter]

I didn't say to say "what are you stupid?"

I said to say "Santorum wanted to fuck the troops (as do the others). Do you want to fuck the troops?"

It's finding common ground and giving them a good kick in the pants to show them that if they care about having a respected military, "American exceptionalism," and leaving their grandkids with any semblance of a well functioning economy, then they may have made a poor choice in the past.

We're not questioning their values or logic - in fact we're recognizing that their values and logic are sound. We're just curing their ignorance (which is not the same thing as stupidity). Certainly some people can be "cured" in different ways, and I support your efforts to do what you think is the most effective.

But I think that this type of video that doesn't say "fuck you" but says that Obama and Romney are the ones doing the fucking to your vaunted "troops" is a great way to jostle people from their misinformed quiescence regardless of their personal sensitivities.

Adam Kokesh's message to others?

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/53961121/Heart_576491_392199487478027_324673527563957_13150 98_1173982064_n.jpg

[mczerone]

I will ask you, would Ron Paul make this video? Is this video about helping RP's campaign or your fury that the world refuses to bow before your superior intellect?

You are of course free to make it and promote it. And I'm free to disassociate myself from it.

It can help RP without being something that RP himself would do. That's the power of the grassroots - we are free from political and FEC restrictions, and we can be more audacious.

Second, it's not about getting people to "bow before your superior intellect" - it's precisely the opposite. It's about appealing to others' intellects - that if they cared for the troops and wanted to have a strong national defense, then they can reason on their own that a vote for Obama or Romney is counterproductive.

I'm glad you're free to disassociate from it, but you might just be missing the boat.

[LibertyEagle]

According to Ron's own words, Ron wanted the campaign ads to be made by the grassroots:

http://antiwar.com/radio/2011/04/23/rep-ron-paul-17/

If he wanted that, he would have instructed HIS CAMPAIGN thusly. So, clearly he did not.

[ClydeCoulter]

Someone have a link to Adam? Perhaps suggest a modification to the video that says "Romney/Obama" are doing the fucking?

[mczerone]

Adam Kokesh's approach?

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/53961121/Heart_576491_392199487478027_324673527563957_13150 98_1173982064_n.jpg

Who has their head op their ass? Someone like Kokesh who is organizing larger and larger events promoting liberty, or those who have continued to use the same "play nice" tactics to win over the GOP regulars to little to no avail?

Disagree with this video? Fine. Make one that you think is better, and we'll let the market decide who was right.

[LibertyEagle]

Let me go out on a limb here. I'm guessing most of you who are in strong support of this video are very young people. Using that kind of language may work well in your circles, but, in general, it runs away older Americans. You know, the people in the Republican Party that we are trying to sway.

So while using this language may help YOU get YOUR frustration out, it will do very little to sway any Republicans. The same video could have been made without this foul-mouth language and it would have been much more powerful and also would then be something we could share with Americans whose mouths do not reside in the toilet.

[ClydeCoulter]

Who has their head op their ass? Someone like Kokesh who is organizing larger and larger events promoting liberty, or those who have continued to use the same "play nice" tactics to win over the GOP regulars to little to no avail?

Disagree with this video? Fine. Make one that you think is better, and we'll let the market decide who was right.

Woah, I'm already in agreement with Kokesh. I"m saying that Adam is saying to others, "Nice try, but if you vote Obamney your head is up your ass" :)
Adams approach toward others :)

[ClydeCoulter]

Let me go out on a limb here. I'm guessing most of you who are in strong support of this video are very young people. Using that kind of language may work well in your circles, but, in general, it runs away older Americans. You know, the people in the Republican Party that we are trying to sway.

So while using this language may help YOU get YOUR frustration out, it will do very little to sway any Republicans. The same video could have been made without this foul-mouth language and it would have been much more powerful and also would then be something we could share with Americans whose mouths do not reside in the toilet.

Really? I'm 57 and I enjoyed and was moved by this video.

You must not be around many older carpenters or Iron workers or .........the common folk/voters.

[Feeding the Abscess]

If he wanted that, he would have instructed HIS CAMPAIGN thusly. So, clearly he did not.

So he's a liar? Because that's what he said.

[helmuth_hubener]

The same video could have been made without this foul-mouth language and it would have been much more powerful and also would then be something we could share with Americans whose mouths do not reside in the toilet. It would be very easy to replace the audio with your own voice over. I encourage you to do that; I do agree that it would improve the video for me and for many people (though not all). Doing is better than griping.

[Origanalist]

According to Ron's own words, Ron wanted the campaign ads to be made by the grassroots:

http://antiwar.com/radio/2011/04/23/rep-ron-paul-17/

Thanks for the link and your point is inarguable. I'll stuff a sock in it.

[RickyJ]

Let me go out on a limb here. I'm guessing most of you who are in strong support of this video are very young people. Using that kind of language may work well in your circles, but, in general, it runs away older Americans. You know, the people in the Republican Party that we are trying to sway.

So while using this language may help YOU get YOUR frustration out, it will do very little to sway any Republicans. The same video could have been made without this foul-mouth language and it would have been much more powerful and also would then be something we could share with Americans whose mouths do not reside in the toilet.

You may be right, but I am sure there are some young people that it would offend too. Not all young people are raised around such language or have friends who use such language even today. All that has to be done is to use some milder language and the point is still made without some people automatically dismissing it because of the language. By keeping such language in it Kokesh is basically telling all those that don't like his choice of words to "fuck off." That is not the way to influence people and win elections.

[LibertyEagle]

Really? I'm 57 and I enjoyed and was moved by this video.

You must not be around many older carpenters or Iron workers or .........the common folk/voters.

I am around a lot of voters, but admittedly most are white collar. I am also around a lot of women, as I am one. You know, I have seen a lot of blathering on here about why women do not support Ron Paul. Do you honestly think using the F word in videos supposedly promoting Ron Paul, in addition to hating on God, Christians, etc., that I have seen on here, will win them over? Do you REALLY? :rolleyes:

[ClydeCoulter]

I am around a lot of voters, but admittedly most are white collar. I am also around a lot of women, as I am one. You know, I have seen a lot of blathering on here about why women do not support Ron Paul. Do you honestly think using the F word in videos supposedly promoting Ron Paul, in addition to hating on God, Christians, etc., that I have seen on here, will win them over? Do you REALLY? :rolleyes:

There are a lot of demographics, this video fits some, not all.
A lot of the women around here? I don't hold a candle to their language, but some of them are strong in their opinions, in fact, very strong and maybe that's why they use the language they do, this is for them as well.

[DerailingDaTrain]

How is he not correct? I've felt like this more than once when people tell me they support Romney or (God forbid) Obama. To be honest at this point I could care less how the rest of the GOP feels. Instead of doing any actual research on a candidate and choosing the best one they just repeated every smear of RP and his supporters they heard on Fox News and fell in line behind Romney from the very beginning. How can I win over someone who won't even listen to me because they think they're the one who is right already and I'm a freedom hating anti-American?

[mczerone]

Let me go out on a limb here. I'm guessing most of you who are in strong support of this video are very young people. Using that kind of language may work well in your circles, but, in general, it runs away older Americans. You know, the people in the Republican Party that we are trying to sway.

So while using this language may help YOU get YOUR frustration out, it will do very little to sway any Republicans. The same video could have been made without this foul-mouth language and it would have been much more powerful and also would then be something we could share with Americans whose mouths do not reside in the toilet.

I'm not very young, but thanks for assuming.

I do remember being young, though, and going hunting with my grandpa. His senior friends used more profane language than anything I heard in my high school.

I do remember my great grandpa, a WWII veteran, using language that I couldn't repeat in my own home.

I do know my father-in-law, who strictly abstained from swearing in front of his minor children, uses all the words around his Vietnam-era brothers and sisters.

I also know middle-aged pastors who use this language in context - they know that it's not an affront to God to vent frustration, as long as your frustration is not directed toward God.

I don't think that this language is going to drive many people away. And it's a fools-errand to continue to try to appease these people, especially when we are only working with a stereotypical caricature of the group.

I disagree that this video could have been made as powerful without the "f" word. It's a word that evokes reaction. Using "screw" or "jip" just wouldn't have conveyed the same atrocity that Obama or Romney promise to undertake.

My "mouth" does not "reside in the toilet". But that doesn't mean that strong language doesn't have a very specific purpose.

Again, go make a better video. I'm sure Kokesh wouldn't even mind if you used his imagery.

[PaulConventionWV]

From what I've gathered, Kokesh wanted the campaign to promote Ron and his entirely unique record/message, not try to package it in a way that traditional Republicans would like. That criticism is consistent with the message in the video.

Oh. In that case, he's insane.

[PaulConventionWV]

I didn't say to say "what are you stupid?"

I said to say "Santorum wanted to fuck the troops (as do the others). Do you want to fuck the troops?"

It's finding common ground and giving them a good kick in the pants to show them that if they care about having a respected military, "American exceptionalism," and leaving their grandkids with any semblance of a well functioning economy, then they may have made a poor choice in the past.

We're not questioning their values or logic - in fact we're recognizing that their values and logic are sound. We're just curing their ignorance (which is not the same thing as stupidity). Certainly some people can be "cured" in different ways, and I support your efforts to do what you think is the most effective.

But I think that this type of video that doesn't say "fuck you" but says that Obama and Romney are the ones doing the fucking to your vaunted "troops" is a great way to jostle people from their misinformed quiescence regardless of their personal sensitivities.

It's the same kind of slanderous talk as saying "What are you stupid?" In fact, it's worse, because it IS slanderous. Telling people Santorum wanted to fuck the troops is disingenuous at best, then asking them if they want to fuck the troops just because, allegedly, that is what Santorum wants to do, is just downright stupid.

[papitosabe]

Some people get really offended at language like that.

fuck 'em!

[Barrex]

I am foreigner to you. I lived through war when I was 7 years old. I understand perfectly what he is talking about.

Person who came back from war. Friends dead and committing suicide. Having PTSP. Troubles sleeping. Cure: give him drugs that have side effect:SUICIDE. Sold by politicians for their interests.....

I said this before and I am saying it again: Every single project and Idea on this forum is spat on. If you dont like it dont be part of it. He put his soul and his heart on that video. Respect that. I do.

If you dont agree say it and let people who do work on it. You find project that yopu agree with and push that one.

[PaulConventionWV]

It's better FOR HIM.

And anyway, if the campaign did this, and the "whole country [went] ballistic", would that be a bad thing? It would have been a massive media event, it would have left a lasting impression on people, and it would have made people think.

It would have made people reinforce their "patriotism." You should be careful about what you want the media to get their hands on. Just think the propaganda they could make with that story.

[PaulConventionWV]

Who has their head op their ass? Someone like Kokesh who is organizing larger and larger events promoting liberty, or those who have continued to use the same "play nice" tactics to win over the GOP regulars to little to no avail?

Disagree with this video? Fine. Make one that you think is better, and we'll let the market decide who was right.

Little to no avail? Tell me how Ron Paul did in 2008, then tell me how he did in 2012 and tell me there is no evidence of improvement. I dare you.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

How is he not correct? I've felt like this more than once when people tell me they support Romney or (God forbid) Obama. To be honest at this point I could care less how the rest of the GOP feels. Instead of doing any actual research on a candidate and choosing the best one they just repeated every smear of RP and his supporters they heard on Fox News and fell in line behind Romney from the very beginning. How can I win over someone who won't even listen to me because they think they're the one who is right already and I'm a freedom hating anti-American?They don't even like Romney. They just want to "beat" Obama. The new rhetoric is, "I like Paul, but Romney is going to win the nomination, so I'm going to vote for him anyway."

[PaulConventionWV]

I am foreigner to you. I lived through war when I was 7 years old. I understand perfectly what he is talking about.

Person who came back from war. Friends dead and committing suicide. Having PTSP. Troubles sleeping. Cure: give him drugs that have side effect:SUICIDE. Sold by politicians for their interests.....

I said this before and I am saying it again: Every single project and Idea on this forum is spat on. If you dont like it dont be part of it. He put his soul and his heart on that video. Respect that. I do.

If you dont agree say it and let people who do work on it. You find project that yopu agree with and push that one.

The point isn't whether Adam should have made the video. The point is whether we should help spread it around with the intention of acquiring votes with it. I love the video and the fact that Adam made it for the audience it is intended for. However, I don't think it is effective to spread it around and use it to try to convert voters. That makes Paul supporters and Ron Paul himself look bad. If someone happens to find it, then they won't readily associate it with any campaign.

The thing is, if people know that you and others are using this for the sole purpose of acquiring votes with it, they will think less of you for it because it shows that you can't relate effectively to them. People respect professionalism. If they stumble upon the video on Youtube,
1) they are much less likely to be an older person or a voter
2) they don't associate it with a campaign because they found it instead of it being shown to them by supporters of a particular candidate

Also, even if you are over 50 on this forum, that doesn't make an accurate sample of voters in America. If you are over 50 and you are on ANY forum on the internet, you are a rarity. Please try to keep things in context when you go saying how you are old and you like this. You are not an accurate sample because you are already interested in Ron Paul.

[ClydeCoulter]

Also, even if you are over 50 on this forum, that doesn't make an accurate sample of voters in America. If you are over 50 and you are on ANY forum on the internet, you are a rarity. Please try to keep things in context when you go saying how you are old and you like this. You are not an accurate sample because you are already interested in Ron Paul.

The point is? You answered it for yourself. Older people who are not on the internet won't see it.

I can't see anyone watching this who still has a heart blaming anyone but the current policies and our own apathy. Otherwise, they may not be reachable anyway. Yes, you might get some who will agree with some of Ron Paul's policies, but they are the ones that are going to vote Romney and you are only going to get them to go for Paul if they see he has a chance of winning. Let's get more support through hard truth and take more caucuses and hopefully more media coverage (Fox declared RP won Lousiana today).

The media is what those people are listening to that would be offended by this video.

MAKE YOUR OWN VERSION OF THIS VIDEO (Voice over) and pass it around !

[Feeding the Abscess]

Oh. In that case, he's insane.

Ron wanted the grassroots to handle the campaign ads. He says so himself in the interview I posted in this thread. I guess he's insane, too.

[mczerone]

Little to no avail? Tell me how Ron Paul did in 2008, then tell me how he did in 2012 and tell me there is no evidence of improvement. I dare you.

(1) look at the exit poll cross tabs. We're still not breaking into the groups you're pandering to. Our numbers are growing in the young and middle aged, the independents, and the working class. We're still getting horrible results from the people you're telling us we need to change our behavior for.

(2) how's the election results looking? Sure we're 4x as big this year, but we're still not winning in the popular polls.

So I'll grant you that there has been growth. But you haven't proved that your pandering methods are more effective than Kokesh's "shock" method. If your method was the cause, wouldn't we expect to see more old, retired, religious growth? But we instead see growth in the Internet-age crowd.

[Philosophy_of_Politics]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_9Hv9ACjgg&feature=share

[InTradePro]

+Rep

Share with all troops you know!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=-_9Hv9ACjgg

[Philosophy_of_Politics]

Blood boils.

[Philosophy_of_Politics]

One of the youtube comments, really strikes me.


"They give you a flag in exchange for your children."

-armargo55

[InTradePro]

Only one candidate said. "My heart weeps for them"

[jmdrake]

I'm glad the title of the video was changed. That makes it more effective and more likely for someone to watch it long enough to see the message.

[InTradePro]

Related

Ron Paul's Texas Straight Talk 4/30/12: The Alarming Suicide Epidemic in the Military

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoKl0zQrblM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoKl0zQrblM

See Dr Paul is ahead of the game as usual and embracing the troops.

[InTradePro]

bump for the evening crew

[camp_steveo]

I can't share this...and that sucks

[qh4dotcom]

If Ron Paul is the choice of the troops why doesn't he get the most votes from the military for the primaries? Why does the military send millions of dollars to his pro-war opponents during the GENERAL ELECTION but only sends Ron Paul a few hundred thousand during the PRIMARIES? If the troops really supported Ron Paul that much more of them would become liberty activists like Adam Kokesh.

[MelissaCato]

Adam is awesome. I don't know who I like better Adam or Alex Jones. AJ I listen too every night .. Adam needs an Android App for AVTM .. then I can listen to my 2 favorite man every night. Whoaa

[PaulConventionWV]

The point is? You answered it for yourself. Older people who are not on the internet won't see it.

I can't see anyone watching this who still has a heart blaming anyone but the current policies and our own apathy. Otherwise, they may not be reachable anyway. Yes, you might get some who will agree with some of Ron Paul's policies, but they are the ones that are going to vote Romney and you are only going to get them to go for Paul if they see he has a chance of winning. Let's get more support through hard truth and take more caucuses and hopefully more media coverage (Fox declared RP won Lousiana today).

The media is what those people are listening to that would be offended by this video.

MAKE YOUR OWN VERSION OF THIS VIDEO (Voice over) and pass it around !

Old people won't see the video unless we go out of our way to show it to them, which I am discouraging.

[PaulConventionWV]

Ron wanted the grassroots to handle the campaign ads. He says so himself in the interview I posted in this thread. I guess he's insane, too.

Well, to be honest, I don't know why he would want the grassroots to handle the ads. He may wish he were able to do that but still see reality. At any rate, I don't see what the problem is with having professionals do the ads. What's so special about giving the grassroots sway in this kind of stuff? They're just ads. Some of them may be good, others may be really bad.

[PaulConventionWV]

(1) look at the exit poll cross tabs. We're still not breaking into the groups you're pandering to. Our numbers are growing in the young and middle aged, the independents, and the working class. We're still getting horrible results from the people you're telling us we need to change our behavior for.

(2) how's the election results looking? Sure we're 4x as big this year, but we're still not winning in the popular polls.

So I'll grant you that there has been growth. But you haven't proved that your pandering methods are more effective than Kokesh's "shock" method. If your method was the cause, wouldn't we expect to see more old, retired, religious growth? But we instead see growth in the Internet-age crowd.

Well, first of all, you would have to show that Kokesh's ideas are more effective, considering the Youtube audience has already been combed over time and time again by Ron Paul videos and ads. Also, we are making some progress in the older groups. Not a terrible lot, but guess what, the older groups are going to be gone the soonest and make way for younger, more fervent Ron Paul supporter types. Also, I blame this on the stubbornness of the old person. I think most of those older ones would stay their ground regardless of what method was used to try to attract them.

As for the second point, the media is responsible for that. We're not winning in the popular polls not because of any major failure on our part, but because it is nearly impossible to break through all the media bias, as well as overcome some bias in the actual results themselves (vote-rigging). It's easy to expect more than is reasonable, so I would just advise you to be reasonable in your expectations because this can't be done overnight. We just need to keep the steady progress rolling, and right now, it is. No different approaches are going to get us overnight results. Be careful about the mindset you approach this with because you may be expecting way too many results, way too soon, and that way, it's easy to get discouraged.

[Philosophy_of_Politics]

If people are more concerned about their sensibilities over words, rather than the emotions being poured out by troops, and Adam Kokesh. They're a prime example of people who would not defend freedom, because they're self-absorbed, and only for their interests.

[Tinnuhana]

In a couple of days, I'll take my weekly ride over to the flight line to do some volunteer work. Although I deal mostly with families, I always notice the young people, many on their first deployment. Most of them have been en route here for at least 20 hours.They all sit together and get read the "riot act" about what they can and can't bring onto the island: porn DVDs, rare animal products, cookies bought at Yokota Air Base. They get their duffle bags, go through customs and go out, where they put their bags on a truck and load a bus to go to lodging.
Meanwhile, families are collecting their luggage and being greeted by their sponsors, who help them adjust, find housing, cars, etc.
Sometimes I want to say, "Welcome to 'Bali Hai'. You'll be working hard, but enjoy the peace and safety here before you are soon sent into harm's way."
Maybe they would be offended and confused by the language use in this video, too. But twelve months from now...even if they maintain their personal standards for expletive use, they WILL understand.