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View Full Version : Fifth Draft of USA Today Ad -- Really about final!!




Bryan
11-15-2007, 01:22 PM
This is the fifth draft of the ad being commissioned by llepard. Try to keep comments to issues of high importance.

A pdf will be made available soon!


Detailed view - top half:
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/251/ad5topbu4.jpg
Lower half:
http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/2301/ad5bottomri3.jpg

Full view:
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/5031/ad5fullwx8.jpg

lew
11-15-2007, 01:25 PM
Please use a BIGGER photo of Paul. People need to be able to recognize him when they see him on TV.



Also, I hate the wording of "It's time to remind Washington DC that government in the USA works for the People - NOT the other way around!"



I like this better "It's time to remind Washington DC that government in the American tradition works for the People - NOT the other way around!" or "It's time to remind Washington DC that the American government works for the People - NOT the other way around!" or something similar.


I hate how "government in the USA" sounds.



Please make the Founding Fathers face each other.


Just flip the two on the left to face the two on the right, and vice versa. It would look better that way.

leglock
11-15-2007, 01:26 PM
Please Make The Founders Face The Reader And Look Towards The Middle....

Delaware
11-15-2007, 01:26 PM
I dont think "Legions of Illegal Aliens" will go over well with someone who isnt Anti-Amnesty Conservative(or Very).

ronpaulyourmom
11-15-2007, 01:27 PM
well done, vast improvement over the original. I don't see anything that sets of a red flag for most Americans, and the tone has improved dramatically.

Run with it :)

Grandson of Liberty
11-15-2007, 01:27 PM
Don't know if it's of "high importance," but I think I saw a previous version that said, "The Founding Fathers. . . " instead of "We The Founding Fathers. . ."

I'm sure it's been discussed, but for what it's worth I did like it without the "We."

bolidew
11-15-2007, 01:27 PM
I don't see much improvement from the 4th draft.
sigh...

UtahApocalypse
11-15-2007, 01:28 PM
Good Luck. I for one would never read all of that .

BLS
11-15-2007, 01:29 PM
Please use a BIGGER photo of Paul. People need to be able to recognize him when they see him on TV.



Also, I hate the wording of "It's time to remind Washington DC that government in the USA works for the People - NOT the other way around!"




Personally, there's a GREAT WAY to tie Ronald Reagan into this RIGHT HERE...

In his 1980 inauguration speech, one of the first things he said was:

"Let us take inventory; We are a nation with a government. NOT the other way around. In this present crisis, Government is NOT the solution to the problem. Government IS the problem."

adwads
11-15-2007, 01:30 PM
Just run it. We're squabling over details now. The main point is that this is going to reach A LOT of people.

All of the main points about Ron Paul are in the advertisement. It's good.

Grandson of Liberty
11-15-2007, 01:31 PM
Just run it. We're squabling over details now. The main point is that this is going to reach A LOT of people.

All of the main points about Ron Paul are in the advertisement. It's good.

agreed.

Vvick727
11-15-2007, 01:31 PM
Yeah, change
"It's time to remind Washington DC that government in the USA works for the People - NOT the other way around!"

to...

"It's time to remind Washington DC that the government is meant (or supposed) to work for the People - NOT the other way around!"

Energy
11-15-2007, 01:31 PM
Revisiting someone's sample from thread about draft #2... only to point out the Founders' facing center, Ron Paul same size, a PROFOUND improvement:

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/9256/newfullrb1.jpg

Melissa
11-15-2007, 01:31 PM
I have posted no comments about this piece because I think the guy paying for it should pick it but I will way I really like the ones that the founders are facing foward. That is the only thing i really think needs to be changed at this point

DJ RP
11-15-2007, 01:32 PM
I'm sure this has been mentioned but is that the best pic of ron paul we have? All the foundating fathers look very sincere but he's looking a bit goofy in that pic?

Also, echoing what others have said, can he not be a little bigger? Maybe the same size as the foundating father pics?

Anyways great job, I think this ad will covert a lot of people!!

leglock
11-15-2007, 01:32 PM
That draft looks better...

RonPaulStreetTeam
11-15-2007, 01:32 PM
Ok, since many of the people on here and experts agree this is an advertisers nightmare...
please give us specs, the DPI (I assume 300) and res for the ad?
I know it will be black and white.
Can it hurt you to give us specs? I mean alll people will do is try to create a better ad.
So others can see.

Let the others have a chance to design and us to vote on.
Because this ad is the highest waste of money I have ever seen.
We have an amazing opportunity from someone willin to pay for the ad.
We reallly realllly should use it to our advantage and gain as many new supporters as we can from it.

Why do I care so much?
I WANT NEW SUPPORTERS!!!!!!!


Let real supporters with experience and knowledge in advertising, FREE MARKET all design something for us to decide on.
So we have original disaster, and maybe 2 or 3 others to look at.
Why is this such an attacked idea by some of you?
I see disinfo all over these boards, dont be herded the wrong way.
If you think the media and government is so out against us and scared of us dont you think they would have hundreds of people on here steering us in the wrong direction?
be aware.

GOT IT?

kylejack
11-15-2007, 01:33 PM
"Congressman Paul never receives money from lobbyists or special interest groups."

WHY is this not being changed? It is false false false. He takes money from special interest groups in every single election cycle. The statement is patently false. Please change this before sending it!

Nefertiti
11-15-2007, 01:34 PM
I posted some capitalization errors that need to be fixed yesterday but it seems they haven't been acted upon. You can find the list here:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=410439#post410439

bolidew
11-15-2007, 01:34 PM
Looks like Bryan was doing all these modifications.

Oh well.....

RonPaulStreetTeam
11-15-2007, 01:35 PM
pictures of old white men getting bigger and more boring.
Ron paul getting smaller and more drowned out.

this gets worse by the revision.

total redo see thread here
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=37401

kylejack
11-15-2007, 01:35 PM
"Congressman Paul never receives money from lobbyists or special interest groups."

WHY is this not being changed? It is false false false. He takes money from special interest groups in every single election cycle. The statement is patently false. Please change this before sending it!



"Congressman Paul never receives money from lobbyists or special interest groups."

WHY is this not being changed? It is false false false. He takes money from special interest groups in every single election cycle. The statement is patently false. Please change this before sending it!


"Congressman Paul never receives money from lobbyists or special interest groups."

WHY is this not being changed? It is false false false. He takes money from special interest groups in every single election cycle. The statement is patently false. Please change this before sending it!


"Congressman Paul never receives money from lobbyists or special interest groups."

WHY is this not being changed? It is false false false. He takes money from special interest groups in every single election cycle. The statement is patently false. Please change this before sending it!

I can't stress this enough. I'm bringing it up in every revision thread. Please fix it.

Jojo
11-15-2007, 01:36 PM
Please Make The Founders Face The Reader And Look Towards The Middle....

I agree, and many others have suggested it. When they all look at the reader it's like they're compelling you to read.

kipload
11-15-2007, 01:41 PM
This is the fifth draft of the ad being commissioned by llepard. Try to keep comments to issues of high importance.

A pdf will be made available soon!


Detailed view - top half:
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/251/ad5topbu4.jpg
Lower half:
http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/2301/ad5bottomri3.jpg

Full view:
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/5031/ad5fullwx8.jpg

1) Founders need to face center

2) "Ron Paul will..." needs to be removed from the "warned us..." section if you are going to have the founders speaking in first person!!!!

3) "Ron Paul advocates a Government by the People - Ron Paul PUTS America first *Delete the last two items* Present tense NOT Future... very important!

4) "www.RonPaul2008.com" and "1-877-RON-PAUL" only at the bottom.

Change those four things and the ad is about where it needs to be.

Jojo
11-15-2007, 01:43 PM
please give us specs, the DPI (I assume 300) and res for the ad?
I know it will be black and white.
Can it hurt you to give us specs? I mean alll people will do is try to create a better ad.
So others can see.

Let the others have a chance to design and us to vote on.


I personally like this idea. Just not sure if there is still time for that.. Or is there?
Of course it's up to the person paying for the ad. And the original designer(s).

But I like the idea of having those that totally reject this ad, come up with a new one SOON. Then let the awesomely generous funder of the ad decide.

francisco
11-15-2007, 01:44 PM
Don't know if it's of "high importance," but I think I saw a previous version that said, "The Founding Fathers. . . " instead of "We The Founding Fathers. . ."

I'm sure it's been discussed, but for what it's worth I did like it without the "We."

I continue to support the above comment. I've tried to express it in the most forceful and reasoned way. If this point is ignored, you will be leaving a very bad impression on many in your audience.

If many supporters come off with a bad impression from this phrasing, why do you think that newcomers to Ron Paul's message won't?

Something about the "triumph of hope over experience" here.

AFM
11-15-2007, 01:44 PM
1) Founders need to face center

2) "Ron Paul will..." needs to be removed from the "warned us..." section if you are going to have the founders speaking in first person!!!!

3) "Ron Paul advocates a Government by the People - Ron Paul PUTS America first *Delete the last two items* Present tense NOT Future... very important!

4) "www.RonPaul2008.com" and "1-877-RON-PAUL" only at the bottom.

Change those four things and the ad is about where it needs to be.

Exacto my friend

musicmax
11-15-2007, 01:45 PM
One more time and then I'm going to stop banging my head against the wall:

PATRIOT Act. ALL CAPS.

Millions of illegals. Not legions.

Forward-facing picture of Jefferson.

Identify the founders by name.

Nobody knows what "fiat" means.

Never solicits money from lobbyists.

ONE phone number and ONE website with www in front of it.

ButchHowdy
11-15-2007, 01:48 PM
Hey Lawrence,

The ad looks great!

My concern however, is that it only educates the reader, which is great but for the amount of money spent, I would want a significant return in the form of their primary vote, which I believe is our next most significant hurdle in our effort to elect Ron Paul.

max
11-15-2007, 01:52 PM
This ad is an abortion...

a mere watered down..over edited...censored shadow of what I originally ran in NH....a piece that Carol Paul herself read and loved!

An abortion...carried out by the consensus of a fearful mob of timid amatuers in these forums...

The emotional punch is GONE...it reads like a president's day 1- day sale ad now...

Does anyone still have the original screen shot that I ran in NH? The version that so inspired this generous patron to run this nationwide?


welcome to politically correct libertarianism....a movement where people seem more interested in blending in with the media led sheep as opposed to inspiring them and LEADING them to move in the direction of liberty and truth..

wfd40
11-15-2007, 01:52 PM
Revisiting someone's sample from thread about draft #2... only to point out the Founders' facing center, Ron Paul same size, a PROFOUND improvement:

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/9256/newfullrb1.jpg

changing to the above is almost such a no brainer that I'm sure it wont be done... lolz

adwads
11-15-2007, 01:54 PM
This ad is an abortion...

a mere watered down..over edited...censored shadow of what I originally ran in NH....a piece that Carol Paul herself read and loved!

An abortion...carried out by the consensus of a fearful mob of timid amatuers in these forums...

The emotional punch is GONE...it reads like a president's day 1- day sale ad now...

Does anyone still have the original screen shot that I ran in NH? The version that so inspired this generous patron to run this nationwide?


welcome to politically correct libertarianism....a movement where people seem more interested in blending in with the media rled sheep as opposed to inspiring them to move in the direction of liberty and truth..


Common, be happy that there is a supporter who is willing to spend over $100,000 of his own money on an ad. It's a good ad overall because it states Ron Paul's positions. The size of his picture or the direction that the founders are facing are not big enough issues to get upset about.

bolidew
11-15-2007, 01:55 PM
If the author/editor of this AD insists the way it is, so be it.
Good luck!
This AD will NOT make or break our compaign, anyway.

kipload
11-15-2007, 01:57 PM
This is a list of the items that I've seen most people agree on. Some of them are pretty big issues as far as design and grammar. I think if you address these issues most people will be happy with what you got so far.

1) Founders need to face center

2) "Ron Paul will..." needs to be removed from the "warned us..." section if you are going to have the founders speaking in first person!!!!

3) "Ron Paul advocates a Government by the People - Ron Paul PUTS America first *Delete the last two items* Present tense NOT Future... very important!

4) www.RonPaul2008.com and 1-877-RON-PAUL only at the bottom.

5) PATRIOT Act. ALL CAPS.

6) Millions of illegals. Not legions.

7) Statements about lobbyists needs to changed

Thank you for your work Mr. Lepard. I know this thread has gotten heated, but I jsut think everyone wants it to go over well... Honestly, out of all of the arguing I these seem to be the points that most people are making.

wfd40
11-15-2007, 01:58 PM
This ad is an abortion...

a mere watered down..over edited...censored shadow of what I originally ran in NH....a piece that Carol Paul herself read and loved!

An abortion...carried out by the consensus of a fearful mob of timid amatuers in these forums...

The emotional punch is GONE...it reads like a president's day 1- day sale ad now...

Does anyone still have the original screen shot that I ran in NH? The version that so inspired this generous patron to run this nationwide?


welcome to politically correct libertarianism....a movement where people seem more interested in blending in with the media rled sheep as opposed to inspiring them to move in the direction of liberty and truth..

I actually agree... shock and awe! Seriously, we want to stir up some media controversy. The ad, as it stands now, is blah at best, utterly forgettable at worst.

Remember, Ron Paul has no problem defending any of the positions he takes because they are grounded in the constitution.

You all honestly think the MSM is going to pick up the story about a rather tame national Ad in USAToday? Heck no.. they want controversy! Only this time, like every other, attempting to bury Paul under said controversy instead exposes the people to pretty amazing ideals like freedom, peace and prosperity.

Which is why I say.. run the controversy.. bring on the MSM, and let Dr. Paul explain to any and all takers what this country is really about.

thomaseusin
11-15-2007, 01:59 PM
Being a 30-second reader, I 2nd this opinion!


Revisiting someone's sample from thread about draft #2... only to point out the Founders' facing center, Ron Paul same size, a PROFOUND improvement:

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/9256/newfullrb1.jpg

Melissa
11-15-2007, 01:59 PM
I would have to agree somethine very moving for all that money not just another plain ad.

michaelwise
11-15-2007, 02:01 PM
Someone should do a Digg article on this.
FMNN article about his effort.


"The graphic design work is provided by Ron Paul supporter and longtime graphic artist Linda Lagana from NH; the ad concept was the brain work of Max, Walt, Lord Zar, Torchbearer, and the team at www.ronpaulforums.com."

http://www.freemarketnews.com/WorldNews.asp?nid=51414

DesertRat
11-15-2007, 02:01 PM
I highly reccomend removing the personally accusatory tone from the warnings particularly the first one. I am going to approach this on a first person level after just reading it. On a personal level you are telling me that it is my fault that we are in these entanglements even though I have opposed them all along. The fact is that the government just doesn't listen to us anymore.

I know there are arguments about how it could be our fault because not enough of us vote etc. etc., but I guarantee you that lots of people are going to read that first warning and immediatley be pissed off, and not in a good way. It's okay to get peoples attention, but blaming them for something they overwhelmingly dissaprove of is going to cause tremendous damage to Dr. Pauls campaign.

Please, please consider going back to the earlier approach of using we and not blaming the indivudual readers for causing all the things the ad is warning them about. We can get peoples attention and let them know that we have severe problems as a nation, but once again I really think that directly blaming the person that we are trying to reach is going to fail as a call to action.

wfd40
11-15-2007, 02:01 PM
Common, be happy that there is a supporter who is willing to spend over $100,000 of his own money on an ad. It's a good ad overall because it states Ron Paul's positions. The size of his picture or the direction that the founders are facing are not big enough issues to get upset about.

Surely, but if I were going to drop 100k, I certainly wouldn't mind - actually, strike that, I'd be doing everything in my power to garner as many multiple millions in free MSM-over-reacting advertising as I could get.

Its called the truth - and its on the side of Dr. Paul.

dsentell
11-15-2007, 02:04 PM
It is a BEAUTIFUL AD -- unique, eye-catching and informative!

I have no doubt that it will wake up a lot of people to the message of Ron Paul!

Thank you llepard and everyone who has worked so hard on this project!

fcofer
11-15-2007, 02:04 PM
"Congressman Paul never receives money from lobbyists or special interest groups."

WHY is this not being changed? It is false false false. He takes money from special interest groups in every single election cycle. The statement is patently false. Please change this before sending it!

Yes, this needs to be changed. This is pretty serious, IMHO.

If you feel that the concept is critical, then put a blurb there about his average donation size or something. But let's not put something in here when we're not certain that it's true. We'll do Ron Paul no favors that way.

FluxCapacitor
11-15-2007, 02:04 PM
It would look much better with the founding fathers facing the center, and Ron Paul the same size as they are. Others have pointed this out. I'm mentioning it too, because it's important.

PeacefulHorizons
11-15-2007, 02:05 PM
Just wondering if it was intentional to put

..."will put America and Americans first"

TWICE almost right after each other.

First, in the last "warned..." line

Then right after it in bullet form

amakris
11-15-2007, 02:06 PM
Founders face center of page.

Man from La Mancha
11-15-2007, 02:11 PM
Revisiting someone's sample from thread about draft #2... only to point out the Founders' facing center, Ron Paul same size, a PROFOUND improvement:

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/9256/newfullrb1.jpg


It has been watered down out of offending the PC correct, I'll except that, but please go with the Founders looking IN and a BIGGER RON PAUL PIC!!!! It's a great ad and thanks to every one.



http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/9435/blackwsmallyh7.gif (teaparty07.com)..http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/8947/brighton7gs5.gif (teaparty07.com)..copy,paste,linked to teaparty07.com

Dave
11-15-2007, 02:12 PM
You can use 1-877-RON-2008 or 1-877-RON-PAUL. Whichever you prefer - these numbers both ring into the national HQ.

Lord Xar
11-15-2007, 02:13 PM
I haven't been following the ad. Does it still pack a punch or is it a shell of its once powerful message?

adwads
11-15-2007, 02:14 PM
Yeah be sure to check out that taking money from special interest stuff. We don't want to say anything false in the ad.

fight4liberty
11-15-2007, 02:14 PM
Am I the only one that is bothered by the fact that one of the lines in the black box at the bottom says, "Help us make December 16 the largest ever, one day fundraiser for any political candidate in history!", but there is absolutely no mention of the Boston Tea Party happening on that date in 1773 so how many people reading this will know the significance of December 16th? Probably none of them, right? It's just another day like any other day.

And more importantly by not using the fact that this is the anniversary date of the Boston Tea Party (which according to Wikipedia "helped to spark the American Revolution") we are failing to use a powerful image that almost everybody knows about. In fact this is what makes Dec 16th such a brilliant choice for the biggest ever fundraiser event in history. But there's no use what-so-ever of this fantastic idea in this ad.

The ad gives all this good data about Ron Paul and then when it comes down to the part of the ad that is supposed to get the reader to do something there's no punch. It is very weak and unclear as to what the ad wants the reader to do and why. It would be so easy and powerful if we just used this Boston Tea Party concept in the copy in the black box. It could be done many different ways. My suggestion would be to use the existing copy with a few additions and have it say something like this:

"When Ron Paul's supporters raised a record 4.3 million dollars in one day (more than any other GOP candidate) it got everybody's attention.

"So now we have decided to set an even higher record!

"On December 16th, 1773, American colonists staged the Boston Tea Party to protest an oppressive tax by the British which helped to spark the American Revolution.

"Help us make this December 16th the largest ever, one day fundraiser for any political candidate in history!

"Pledge now to make your most generous donation to the Ron Paul Campaign this December 16th.

"Together we can change the world!

"Go to www.teaparty07.com or call 1-877-ronpaul."

Of course, this is more text than will fit in the current size of the black box so it would have to be made larger and the text would have to be layed out in a nice looking way (maybe make it a horizontal black box along the bottom of the ad) but to neglect to use this very brilliant concept is sort of like using a pistol when we have a cannon sitting there.

Anybody else think we're missing the boat on this one?

PeacefulHorizons
11-15-2007, 02:18 PM
Repeating what has been said a few times already:

*** IMPORTANT! ***

Please correct the INACCURATE statement that Ron Paul does not accept money from lobbyists!

Can edit to state that Ron Paul cannot be bought/influenced by lobbyists, special interests etc

wisen
11-15-2007, 02:20 PM
Yeah, change
"It's time to remind Washington DC that government in the USA works for the People - NOT the other way around!"

to...

"It's time to remind Washington DC that the government is meant (or supposed) to work for the People - NOT the other way around!"

"It's time to remind Washington DC that the government is meant to work FOR the People--the American People!

mrd
11-15-2007, 02:25 PM
"supports a strong national defense" instead of "is strong on United States self-defense"
"Deplores the doctrine of preemptive war" instead of "Opposes the doctrine of preemptive war"
"Voted against invasion of Iraq" instead of "Voted against the war in Iraq"

"Ron Paul has received more donations from active miltary members" Is this wholly accurate? It would be better if other military also were included, like veterans. I'm not sure if it's legal for active military to donate directly to Ron Paul. See http://www.dod.mil/dodgc/defense_ethics/ethics_regulation/1344-10.html - illegal to donate to an employee of the Federal Government. Wouldn't that include congressmen?

kipload
11-15-2007, 02:27 PM
"supports a strong national defense" instead of "is strong on United States self-defense"
"Deplores the doctrine of preemptive war" instead of "Opposes the doctrine of preemptive war"
"Voted against invasion of Iraq" instead of "Voted against the war in Iraq"

"Ron Paul has received more donations from active miltary members" Is this wholly accurate? It would be better if other military also were included, like veterans. I'm not sure if it's legal for active military to donate directly to Ron Paul. See http://www.dod.mil/dodgc/defense_ethics/ethics_regulation/1344-10.html - illegal to donate to an employee of the Federal Government. Wouldn't that include congressmen?

+1

Ron LOL
11-15-2007, 02:29 PM
Hey! Fix the typesetting! C'mon, it looks horrible right now! I posted a fix yesterday :(

hazek
11-15-2007, 02:31 PM
I don't get this ad.

Maybe I shouldn't be even writing this since I'm not an American but maybe it gives me a unique perspective to this ad as a whole.

In another thread others have already suggested a totally new ad and that this won't have anyone to actually read it. And although I fully support the effort I have to agree.

Why don't you try and print something more Ron Paul like. Think about it, how did he win you over? I'd say I was sold the moment I saw his first video of a debate. It just makes Sense what the man says.

Print this:

"A 4.38 million question: Who said this?"

an then pick a few of his quotes

"Who's voting record is this?"

and then list his voting record.

What I'm trying to say is, don't try to win people over with this Funding fathers spirit thing but educate them, as Ron in his most humble way has educated us.

Just my two cents.

p.s.: I didn't want to offend anyone, sorry if I did

Ridiculous
11-15-2007, 02:31 PM
Everyone here is WAY biased. It should be shown to non Ron Paul supporters to gauge their reaction. Any ad with the amount of reach that this will have should be focus grouped.

syborius
11-15-2007, 02:40 PM
this:


http://flickr.com/photos/travischurch/1077498098/



rehash it. Why waste something that is pure genius.

ProBlue33
11-15-2007, 02:42 PM
Revisiting someone's sample from thread about draft #2... only to point out the Founders' facing center, Ron Paul same size, a PROFOUND improvement:

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/9256/newfullrb1.jpg

Yes this is the last and only change to be made, but the guys spending $100,000 on this ad has the final say, we should just be happy he is doing it.

+1776

specsaregood
11-15-2007, 02:44 PM
We really need the founder's pictures to face the middle as suggested above.
It makes a HUGE visual difference.

DesertRat
11-15-2007, 02:44 PM
This is in response to the post wanting more focus on the tea party event...

I think continuing to tie our actions and fundraisers to revolutionary acts will backfire on us even though I argree we are doing something revolutionary. Look what they tried to do with the Guy Fawkes day fundraiser. Just imagine if we would have done that on Veterans day instead of making that one an afterthought. How in the world could you spin donating money on Veterans day?

Like I said in the title, I am probably just a wet blanket and won't be very popular here. Maybe that's because I'm a recent convert, but who else could better judge the impact of stuff like this on people that have never heard of Dr. Paul before. There is no question that I desperatley want to get Dr. Paul elected for two full terms if possible. If that means toning it down a bit on the first introduction, and avoiding actions that give the MSM extra ammo then so be it. All I care is that we win honestly (not suggesting any intentional dishonesty here just stating how I feel) without taking ourselves to seriously. I'm guessing the Good Dr. would agree.

hambone1982
11-15-2007, 02:44 PM
"It's time to remind Washington DC that the American government works for the People - NOT the other way around!"

Just flip the two on the left to face the two on the right, and vice versa. It would look better that way.

I agree with these two ideas.

LibertyEagle
11-15-2007, 02:45 PM
I dont think "Legions of Illegal Aliens" will go over well with someone who isnt Anti-Amnesty Conservative(or Very).

Too bad. It's the truth. Keep it in there.

krott5333
11-15-2007, 02:45 PM
MAKE THEM LOOK TO THE CENTER

CMON GEEZ

Ron LOL
11-15-2007, 02:45 PM
Okay, one more time here.

Top: BAD.
Bottom: good!

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/4880/rpusatodayfixer1.jpg

And another idea:
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/3433/rpusatodayfk7.jpg

krott5333
11-15-2007, 02:46 PM
Revisiting someone's sample from thread about draft #2... only to point out the Founders' facing center, Ron Paul same size, a PROFOUND improvement:

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/9256/newfullrb1.jpg

i agree

LibertyEagle
11-15-2007, 02:47 PM
...

LibertyEagle
11-15-2007, 02:48 PM
MAKE THEM LOOK TO THE CENTER

CMON GEEZ

I agree that this would be much better. It's up to Llepard though.

paradoxalist
11-15-2007, 02:49 PM
I asked a few (unbiased) family and friends what they thought of this ad. "It's pretty cool, no?" The reaction every time was basically "Eh," glancing at it and then walking away, "I like the ad on your desktop better..." (the Ames ad).

ProBlue33
11-15-2007, 02:49 PM
MAKE THEM LOOK TO THE CENTER

CMON GEEZ

If you haven't gotten the message yet, I don't know how much more we can say.

Many feel this is the last and most important change that must be made, then your ready to print:)

LibertyEagle
11-15-2007, 02:54 PM
Does anyone still have the original screen shot that I ran in NH? The version that so inspired this generous patron to run this nationwide?

Which one? The one that we donated to have run, or the one you ended up running?

Note: I do agree that all these cooks have watered down the message very substantially. A bit too much, in my opinion. It's still a good ad though. :)

DesertRat
11-15-2007, 02:54 PM
The version someone posted with a larger picture of Ron Paul is more eye catching and puts equal focus and attention on him. He is the person we are trying to get elected. Good idea as far as I'm concerned.

saahmed
11-15-2007, 02:54 PM
Shouldn't the picture of Ron Paul and the "Ron Paul for President" stick out more. If someone is just casually going through the paper they will see pictures of the founding fathers and think its some useless ad or something.

Ron LOL
11-15-2007, 02:56 PM
The version someone posted with a larger picture of Ron Paul is more eye catching and puts equal focus and attention on him. He is the person we are trying to get elected. Good idea as far as I'm concerned.

FWIW, when I was out last week spamming RP, I asked one lady if she knew who he was and she said no -- until she saw a picture of him, and said she remembered him from the debates and liked him.

kylejack
11-15-2007, 02:57 PM
Repeating what has been said a few times already:

*** IMPORTANT! ***

Please correct the INACCURATE statement that Ron Paul does not accept money from lobbyists!

Can edit to state that Ron Paul cannot be bought/influenced by lobbyists, special interests etc

PLEASE ADDRESS THIS. I've been harping on it through 5 revisions.

LibertyEagle
11-15-2007, 02:58 PM
Llepard,

Have you pulled out all your hair yet? ;)

Slist
11-15-2007, 03:03 PM
Please Make The Founders Face The Reader And Look Towards The Middle....

I second that!

Daveforliberty
11-15-2007, 03:05 PM
I'm sorry I haven't chimed in until now. What you are doing is so wonderful I'm without words. My $.02:

On foreign entanglements, in order to make it more understandable to Joe Public, I think you should add examples, i.e.

"Now the trusted friends and allies you support with generous foreign aid packages and weapons (such as the Mujahideen and Saddam Hussein)...

On the Central Bank, due to government propaganda (2-3% inflation) many people may disagree that there is "runaway inflation," but would agree, especially since it's in the news every day, that Ron Paul will stop the debasement of our dollar by...

Nevertheless it's great and I'd be happy the way it is.

dsentell
11-15-2007, 03:05 PM
Llepard,

Have you pulled out all your hair yet? ;)

:eek:

LOL! I have been concerned about that as well . . . :D

ProBlue33
11-15-2007, 03:05 PM
Thanks for doing this, and I think the ad has improved for sure, I forgot to mention Ron Paul picture needs to be as big as the founding fathers, just like the adjusted picture of the 4 founding fathers shows.

Your not going to please everybody with the wording thats not possible, but you can with the pictures:)

withallmyheart
11-15-2007, 03:07 PM
1. Have all men looking to the center. Otherwise, the pictures are distracting because faces are looking all over the place. It brings a sense of confusion. Center looking everyone is focused on the reader.

2. "The" in "We The People" should NOT be capped.

3. "The" in "We The Founders" should NOT be capped.

4. The "We the People" should not curve slightly. It looks like there was a hiccup. Either strainght or curve more but don't leave it like it is, please.

5. Bottom section:
a. Have 2 pictures of Ron Paul pulled out to the side.
b. Move the large "RON PAUL for PRESIDENT" up and place under the "For these reasons, We the People support"
c. Stars underneath 'b' above. Thinking 13 but that might be to much. you'd have to see what looks balance but uncluttered.
d. Don't think you need the "--RON PAUL---The only anti-war, small government..." line. But if you must make it a sentence..."Ron Paul is the only anti-war,small government..."

6. If you leave the bottom section unchanged, the "--RON PAUL---The only anti-war, small government..." verbage makes it look unbalanced at the bottom.

syborius
11-15-2007, 03:08 PM
Llepard,

Have you pulled out all your hair yet? ;)

haha, im sure he has, BUT, slowly but surely things are improving.

I would still minimize the gravestone arch. White out everything besides a connecting line between the founding fathers. The gravestone from a distance still looks more like a halloween ad. you have a gravestone, with stars, It looks like a cemetery, still.

White out the top, white out the very most bottom arch, You can have an arching line connecting the top president graphics, the rest should be whited out IMHO.

RonPaulStreetTeam
11-15-2007, 03:09 PM
terrible ad.

thanks for moving my topic so smart people cant see it as they come home from work.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=37401

I guess admins here dont want a better ad either.
what is the cover up here?

bring the payee out.

syborius
11-15-2007, 03:15 PM
terrible ad.

thanks for moving my topic so smart people cant see it as they come home from work.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=37401

I guess admins here dont want a better ad either.
what is the cover up here?

bring the payee out.

People must be blind.

I see a gravestone from a distance, in a cemetery, with twinkling stars. thematically it looks like a halloween ad.

Please guys, try to minimize the "gravestone" effect.

bickelj
11-15-2007, 03:17 PM
this:


http://flickr.com/photos/travischurch/1077498098/



rehash it. Why waste something that is pure genius.

Finally a real alternative. Find whoever made this ad and run it. VERY simple, VERY effective.

No need to nitpick over wording. If we're nitpicking over wording, there are too many words.

mrd
11-15-2007, 03:20 PM
The Ames ad is inspirational and provoking. It really makes people wonder, "Why do these people so strongly support Ron Paul?" Clearly not the informative angle though, there are few facts. I don't think it would have as much impact in B&W, either.

syborius
11-15-2007, 03:22 PM
The Ames ad is inspirational and provoking. It really makes people wonder, "Why do these people so strongly support Ron Paul?" Clearly not the informative angle though, there are few facts. I don't think it would have as much impact in B&W, either.


Thats my concern as well, the B/W translation of the ad.

I don't think these people here will change their mind, I'm just trying to get them to see things from a diff. perspective.

Less is more!

llepard
11-15-2007, 03:24 PM
terrible ad.

thanks for moving my topic so smart people cant see it as they come home from work.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=37401

I guess admins here dont want a better ad either.
what is the cover up here?

bring the payee out.

What is so terrible about it?

Are you a troll?

Linda and I have been working our guts out on this thing for four days.

Your comment is not helpful to our psyches.

Perhaps you are right, but it is too late now.

LWL

scottymac
11-15-2007, 03:25 PM
Ok I just tossed this together. It lacks copy; It would take more than a couple minutes thought to really come up with some cracking good copy that really hits home what needs to be said. You could also take this sort of concept and do 2 half page ads or 4 quarter page ads, with the final one showcasing Ron Paul in the larger type maybe on the right to show a visual difference (and philisophical difference) with the others.

(Btw, lorem ipsum is placeholder text just in case someone might be confused by that.)

http://scottmcmillin.com/images/ronpaul.jpg

I started thinking about how the Framers could be used effectively and came up with this; the idea being that Paul, as a Constitutionalist, is a modern successor to its authors. Ignore the photo quality, I just quick grabbed them from Google to show the concept.

http://scottmcmillin.com/images/ronpaul2.jpg

That's about all the time I have to spend on this today. Hey, when it comes down to it, any ad is going to be better than no ad. And I truly empathize with the current designer as it seems there's a bit of "design by committee" going on here. Unfortunately no good design can from committee. Too many cooks (and other clichés).

For reference: My original post:http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=416681#post416681

dsentell
11-15-2007, 03:26 PM
What is so terrible about it?

Are you a troll?

Linda and I have been working our guts out on this thing for four days.

Your comment is not helpful to our psyches.

Perhaps you are right, but it is too late now.

LWL

Hey llepard! Thanks again for everything. Pay no attention to RonPaulStreet guy, he has been insulting everyone all afternoon . . .

GREAT AD! GREAT JOB!

kipload
11-15-2007, 03:28 PM
What is so terrible about it?

Are you a troll?

Linda and I have been working our guts out on this thing for four days.

Your comment is not helpful to our psyches.

Perhaps you are right, but it is too late now.

LWL

Mr. Lepard,

Thank you so much for your work. I am sure the majority of us appreciate it. I would like to forward you this info. From what I have gathered this small list of things seem to be the most common suggestions. Again... we appreciate anything you are doing. Good luck sir.

1) Founders need to face center

2) "Ron Paul will..." needs to be removed from the "warned us..." section if you are going to have the founders speaking in first person!!!!

3) "Ron Paul advocates a Government by the People - Ron Paul PUTS America first *Delete the last two items* Present tense NOT Future... very important!

4) www.RonPaul2008.com and 1-877-RON-PAUL only at the bottom.

5) PATRIOT Act. ALL CAPS.

6) Millions of illegals. Not legions.

7) Statements about lobbyists needs to changed

I know this thread has gotten heated, but I just think everyone wants it to go over well... Honestly, out of all of the arguing these seem to be the points that most people are making.

syborius
11-15-2007, 03:29 PM
What is so terrible about it?

Are you a troll?

Linda and I have been working our guts out on this thing for four days.

Your comment is not helpful to our psyches.

Perhaps you are right, but it is too late now.

LWL


I'm sure he is not a troll, just very, very passionate. Be nice people.

Llepard. I hope you see my gravestone comment? Do you see it. Just trust me. Take my advice as I mentioned earlier, and see the difference.

Thematically that needs to be minimized IMHO. I hope you see it.

paradoxalist
11-15-2007, 03:37 PM
Ok I just tossed this together. It lacks copy; It would take more than a couple minutes thought to really come up with some cracking good copy that really hits home what needs to be said. You could also take this sort of concept and do 2 half page ads or 4 quarter page ads, with the final one showcasing Ron Paul in the larger type maybe on the right to show a visual difference (and philisophical difference) with the others.

(Btw, lorem ipsum is placeholder text just in case someone might be confused by that.)

http://scottmcmillin.com/images/ronpaul.jpg

I started thinking about how the Framers could be used effectively and came up with this; the idea being that Paul, as a Constitutionalist, is a modern successor to its authors. Ignore the photo quality, I just quick grabbed them from Google to show the concept.

http://scottmcmillin.com/images/ronpaul2.jpg

That's about all the time I have to spend on this today. Hey, when it comes down to it, any ad is going to be better than no ad. And I truly empathize with the current designer as it seems there's a bit of "design by committee" going on here. Unfortunately no good design can from committee. Too many cooks (and other clichés).

For reference: My original post:http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=416681#post416681

Wow, that would be stunning; especially the four quarter page idea each representing a different theme. Something like this would speak volumes. Hope to see more of your ideas!

RonPaulStreetTeam
11-15-2007, 03:40 PM
What is so terrible about it?

Are you a troll?

Linda and I have been working our guts out on this thing for four days.

Your comment is not helpful to our psyches.

Perhaps you are right, but it is too late now.

LWL

Hey thanks for coming on here.

The problem with it is it is not an advertisement at all. It is half a documentary about some old white men that died hundreds of years ago. How many no ron paul supporters are going to read this? Honestly.
How interesting is it? How much does it pull you in?
Well if you said a lot it's because you ARE a Ron Paul supporter.

we are targeting a different market, audience, whatever.
We need something simple, strong, effective and easy to remember.
The bottom left corner has all the right stuff.
but it isnt emphasized, its drowned out by tons of warnings and picutres of dead guys I only want to see on money.

So basically, easy to read follow and does not take a lot of time.
I mean I am only speaking from a marketing and advertising stand point. you know the one we should be focusing on.
If the ad is effective people will find out about all the forefather and warnings and things wrong today by checking out more about Ron paul.
but this is going to scare them away or not even get their attention to begin with. it says ignore all over it.

and I am far from a "troll" only a really really really concered Ron paul supporter who has been putting all of his free time into spreading the word.
I would love for your amazing genorisrty to be used properly so that we may get a much bigger following.
I would hate to see a giant clutter fuck of words on a page that no one will read.

And you can read through the following threads. I am not alone, other designers and advertisers have said the same. i have ran this ad by friends and co designers that dont support ron paul and they have said the same.
When spending 100k+ on an ad, you would think we would want it to be very effective. Especially if its spreading the word about something you believe so strongly about.

Now I know nothing about Linda, but I do see she isnt thinking on an advertisers level or non ron paul supporters standpoint. Someone said she was pro but I Googled her and see no other work or portfolio. So the pro thing is questionable based on this piece and no past work.

I'm only saying drop the specs so that multiple people can pull together and provide alternatives.

wht's the deadline?

p.s.
you are awesome and we all thank you for doing this really this.
really it is not about you, we are concerned about actually getting a huge impact out of it and new supporters.
We are thinking from an advertisers mindset and not a hard core liberty aware following ron paul supporter.

RonPaulStreetTeam
11-15-2007, 03:44 PM
Wow, that would be stunning; especially the four quarter page idea each representing a different theme. Something like this would speak volumes. Hope to see more of your ideas!

yup, already better.

4 quarters, one about Iraq and end the war, another about taxes and never raising them.

1) iraq war and ending and troops home, simple easy to read STRONG POINT in others eyes.

2) TAXES and IRS and what not another strong point

3) Minimal government and personal liberties

4) 20 year congressman, vet, doctor etc etc personable sweet amnd short

bottom picture, website and boom strong message.

very easy to read and follow and shows you where to go.

Man from La Mancha
11-15-2007, 03:46 PM
All you ones with another great idea for a whole new ad, buy one then we can help you.



http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/9435/blackwsmallyh7.gif (teaparty07.com)..http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/8947/brighton7gs5.gif (teaparty07.com)..copy,paste,linked to teaparty07.com

JordanL
11-15-2007, 03:46 PM
Why not change "We The Founding Fathers" to "The Founding Fathers" and leave the "We" for the "We The People" part.

It blends much better with the "concerned citizen" ideal.

dmspilot00
11-15-2007, 03:47 PM
Ron Paul's picture is too small. It should be bigger than the founding fathers, or at least the same size. The ad is for Ron Paul not the FF.

The ad says "We The Founding Fathers" then a few sentences later "We The People" ... so which is it?

llepard
11-15-2007, 03:49 PM
Hey thanks for coming on here.

The problem with it is it is not an advertisement at all. It is half a documentary about some old white men that died hundreds of years ago. How many no ron paul supporters are going to read this? Honestly.
How interesting is it? How much does it pull you in?
Well if you said a lot it's because you ARE a Ron Paul supporter.

we are targeting a different market, audience, whatever.
We need something simple, strong, effective and easy to remember.
The bottom left corner has all the right stuff.
but it isnt emphasized, its drowned out by tons of warnings and picutres of dead guys I only want to see on money.

So basically, easy to read follow and does not take a lot of time.
I mean I am only speaking from a marketing and advertising stand point. you know the one we should be focusing on.
If the ad is effective people will find out about all the forefather and warnings and things wrong today by checking out more about Ron paul.
but this is going to scare them away or not even get their attention to begin with. it says ignore all over it.

and I am far from a "troll" only a really really really concered Ron paul supporter who has been putting all of his free time into spreading the word.
I would love for your amazing genorisrty to be used properly so that we may get a much bigger following.
I would hate to see a giant clutter fuck of words on a page that no one will read.

And you can read through the following threads. I am not alone, other designers and advertisers have said the same. i have ran this ad by friends and co designers that dont support ron paul and they have said the same.
When spending 100k+ on an ad, you would think we would want it to be very effective. Especially if its spreading the word about something you believe so strongly about.

Now I know nothing about Linda, but I do see she isnt thinking on an advertisers level or non ron paul supporters standpoint. Someone said she was pro but I Googled her and see no other work or portfolio. So the pro thing is questionable based on this piece and no past work.

I'm only saying drop the specs so that multiple people can pull together and provide alternatives.

wht's the deadline?

p.s.
you are awesome and we all thank you for doing this really this.
really it is not about you, we are concerned about actually getting a huge impact out of it and new supporters.
We are thinking from an advertisers mindset and not a hard core liberty aware following ron paul supporter.


I hear your points and disagree.

We could make it like all the other political adverts out there, (your suggestion) or we could take a different approach. (mine).

Is it cluttered, yes. Does the device work? yes. Will intelligent people read it, I believe they will.

Let's wait and see what feedback we get before we make a conclusion on whether or not the adv. is terrible.

Give me a little slack here, I think I have a good gut for these kind of things and it is my money.

This is an open "source advertisement." I did not write it, we all did and it is better for the effort. I have gotten a lot of positive feedback from independent people in the advertising community.

You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine. I know that I would never call anything you have done "terrible" in a public forum.

I suspect Ron Paul would not either.

I would ask that you think about that. Words have consequences. Your comments messed with my karma today.

I would be happy to accept your apology at your earliest convenience.

LWL

kylejack
11-15-2007, 03:50 PM
I hear your points and disagree.

We could make it like all the other political adverts out there, (your suggestion) or we could take a different approach. (mine).

Is it cluttered, yes. Does the device work? yes. Will intelligent people read it, I believe they will.

Let's wait and see what feedback we get before we make a conclusion on whether or not the adv. is terrible.

Give me a little slack here, I think I have a good gut for these kind of things and it is my money.

The is an open source advertisement. I have gotten a lot of positive feedback from independent people in the advertising community.

You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine. I know that I would never call anything you have done "terrible" in a public forum.

I suspect Ron Paul would not either.

I would ask that you think about that. Words have consequences.

I would be happy to accept your apology at your earliest convenience.

LWL

Please fix the inaccurate special interest line.

jake
11-15-2007, 03:51 PM
needs a much bigger picture of RON PAUL..

Menthol Patch
11-15-2007, 03:52 PM
What is so terrible about it?

Are you a troll?

Linda and I have been working our guts out on this thing for four days.

Your comment is not helpful to our psyches.

Perhaps you are right, but it is too late now.

LWL

llepard,

The first version of the ad was absolutely fantastic. It made me jump out of my seat with excitement. However, each additional version has become worse and worse. The message has been watered down tremendously and important parts of the message have even been removed.

It's your money and you can have whatever you want in this ad. But I urge you to please use the first ad. It was what YOU really wanted. Please don't listen to those who have put pressure on you since then. I urge you to run the FIRST VERSION of the ad.

Thank you for supporting Ron Paul.

Paulitician
11-15-2007, 03:56 PM
I still don't understand why the pic of Ron Paul has to be so tiny.

llepard
11-15-2007, 03:56 PM
Please fix the inaccurate special interest line.

It has been fixed.

LWL

jake
11-15-2007, 03:58 PM
llepard,

The first version of the ad was absolutely fantastic. It made me jump out of my seat with excitement. However, each additional version has become worse and worse. The message has been watered down tremendously and important parts of the message have even been removed.

It's your money and you can have whatever you want in this ad. But I urge you to please use the first ad. It was what YOU really wanted. Please don't listen to those who have put pressure on you since then. I urge you to run the FIRST VERSION of the ad.

Thank you for supporting Ron Paul.


I tend to agree - YOU are running the ad, you choose what you want in it - if it looks good to you, go with it. it is definitely true that each revision has become more watered down.. I think you need to go with creating a splash here with STRONG statements (factual, of course) not a watered generic political advertisement. - just my 2 cents.

llepard
11-15-2007, 03:58 PM
llepard,

The first version of the ad was absolutely fantastic. It made me jump out of my seat with excitement. However, each additional version has become worse and worse. The message has been watered down tremendously and important parts of the message have even been removed.

It's your money and you can have whatever you want in this ad. But I urge you to please use the first ad. It was what YOU really wanted. Please don't listen to those who have put pressure on you since then. I urge you to run the FIRST VERSION of the ad.

Thank you for supporting Ron Paul.


I hear you Menthol. I loved it too. Kind of sad to see it go.

That advertisement made us feel good, remember our goal here is to make lots of voters feel good. That way our man wins.

But I know, it was the NH adv. that grabbed me. That adv. was riveting!

It is the reason I did this advertisemtn

LFOD
11-15-2007, 04:04 PM
What is so terrible about it?

Are you a troll?

Linda and I have been working our guts out on this thing for four days.

Your comment is not helpful to our psyches.

Perhaps you are right, but it is too late now.

LWL

This is a great ad. If an ad is going to take up my time, it had better convey real information. This does. Breezy designs are a dime a dozen.

My only suggestions (my apologies if additional input is not wanted at this point)

- I agree with having founders all face center. It gives a "unified" and organized feel to the first thing the eye sees.

- I read an earlier draft which said "warned of the dangers of foreign entanglements. Now thousands of your men and women suffer and die protecting and building foreign nations while your government plans a military draft. Ron Paul would stop the war and bring out troops home."

That was clearer and more powerful than the current version of that point, which seems wordy and somewhat abstract to me.

You have my sincere thanks and admiration for this effort.

acmegeek
11-15-2007, 04:06 PM
I have the utmost respect for Linda and Larry with their truly patriotic and selfless efforts. I think that this ad will get a lot of press just because of the story behind it.

More people will know that they don't have to vote for the "cleanest dirty shirt", that there a candidate who truly cares about our country and has the verifiable integrity to get our country back on track.

So, that being said, I liked the layout and design of the ad, but thought I could improve it a little.

My design was not about the text verbage or formatting, but about the design in general with the text pasted in.

So, here is my design: (again, ignore the text it is from an older version)

http://www.s3os.com/misc/ron_paul_ad.jpg

http://www.s3os.com/misc/ron_paul_ad.jpg

It is entirely done in vector format (except for the pasted text and photos) so it is infinitely scalable for any purpose. And it is also very easy to modify.

Regards,

Paulitician
11-15-2007, 04:09 PM
acmegeek, you are brilliant! I love that faint background. I was actually advocating something like that.

Jmaths117
11-15-2007, 04:10 PM
This is the fifth draft of the ad being commissioned by llepard. Try to keep comments to issues of high importance.

A pdf will be made available soon!


Detailed view - top half:
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/251/ad5topbu4.jpg
Lower half:
http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/2301/ad5bottomri3.jpg

Full view:
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/5031/ad5fullwx8.jpg

Why is Ron Paul's picture so small? It must be large.

Menthol Patch
11-15-2007, 04:13 PM
I would say the ad is NOT to make voters feel good. It is to introduce them to TRUTH.

ProBlue33
11-15-2007, 04:14 PM
Acmegeek

Nice Job, so many awesome idea's, to bad we cant use them all.

cero
11-15-2007, 04:22 PM
A couple of more ...warned would do it for me.
The first and second drafts were great now it feels like is lacking something.
I say go with what you like and thanks for the good work your doing.

Drknows
11-15-2007, 04:25 PM
HEY llepard RUN IT!

See he likes the ad guys, You know what i notice? Its the younger generation complaining and saying the ad sucks. How many of us read USA TODAY? Or even pick up a paper and read it for 30 mins or more? My generation has Attention Deficit Disorder.

We get all our news online or TV. What works for us doesn't work for the 50 plus crowd.

I'm willing to bet they will read all the way through and enjoy every minute of it. I bet they cut it out and save it.

Ron Paul in 2008
11-15-2007, 04:25 PM
I really liked having the founding fathers eyes face the reader and the reformation of the bottom. So many people loved it and it wasn't added? I also will say again that only ronpaul2008.com and teaparty should be listed.


I hear you Menthol. I loved it too. Kind of sad to see it go.

I think we made the right decision removing the draft reference. The only thing that I think was watered down was the control of both political parties. I am not opposed to it being in the final. That is a good message to send to 2 million people and they are not going to hear it elsewhere. I liked it. Anyone who may be turned off by that message probably wouldn't vote for him anyways and it has the potential to grab some people who feel that way but are too busy to follow politics.

suggestion

If it is changed to "We the founding fathers" up top maybe it should just be changed to "We." As an open letter the founders wouldn't say founding fathers. I also read some suggestions on other forums that Ron Paul's name should be somewhere up top.

Ron Paul Fan
11-15-2007, 04:28 PM
Are we still talking about this thing? I said in the other thread 5 hours ago to just run the damn thing already. You're never gonna please everybody. We're running out of time. RUN IT!!!!!!!

bolidew
11-15-2007, 04:30 PM
Are we still talking about this thing? I said in the other thread 5 hours ago to just run the damn thing already. You're never gonna please everybody. We're running out of time. RUN IT!!!!!!!

even with typos? :)

Ron Paul Fan
11-15-2007, 04:32 PM
even with typos? :)

Why are there still typos in the 5th draft? Those should have been fixed in the 2nd draft! We don't need any more drafts! People just talk and talk and talk and nothing gets achieved. We talk ourselves into a stalemate. Print it, run it, copy it, distribute it. Easy peasy Japaneasy.

Godbag
11-15-2007, 04:34 PM
Like a few others have said, its never going to please everybody, and that isnt the point!! FOUNDING FATHERS ALL FACING INWARDS, RON'S PICTURE AS LARGE AS THEIRS, ALL OF THE REVISED SENTENCES, AND THANKYOU LLEPARD FOR FIRSTLY PUTTING UP THE MONEY FOR THIS AD, AND HAVING THE PATIENCE TO LISTEN TO EVERYBODIES GRIPES!!

deedles
11-15-2007, 04:39 PM
Does anyone remember we went through this exact same thing doing the mosaic ad for Iowa? lol... I'm having flashbacks.

And look how wonderfully that turned out.. it was truly a group effort with Xar's hair being pulled out that time as the real world worker.

I vote facing center .

SeanEdwards
11-15-2007, 04:45 PM
Revisiting someone's sample from thread about draft #2... only to point out the Founders' facing center, Ron Paul same size, a PROFOUND improvement:

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/9256/newfullrb1.jpg

I like this version best. I think it's much better than the 5th edit version. In particular the fifth edit has returned to using "We The Founders" statement that presents the founders in a weird first-person perspective that is disrespectful in my opinion.

Edit: However, I think there are too many websites listed on the bottom of this version.

sugaki
11-15-2007, 04:45 PM
Ron Paul's face should at least be as big as the founding fathers. Else you're putting more importance on them and not Ron Paul.

syborius
11-15-2007, 04:46 PM
I think we are getting close to production regardless.

Besides the bickering this is still a very, very good ad. We can never reach perfection, but I am certain people will take notice.

Thank you for all the hard work!!

For Liberty!

ProBlue33
11-15-2007, 04:50 PM
HEY llepard RUN IT!

See he likes the ad guys, You know what i notice? Its the younger generation complaining and saying the ad sucks. How many of us read USA TODAY? Or even pick up a paper and read it for 30 mins or more? My generation has Attention Deficit Disorder.

We get all our news online or TV. What works for us doesn't work for the 50 plus crowd.

I'm willing to bet they will read all the way through and enjoy every minute of it. I bet they cut it out and save it.


YES, this is very true, young people perceive things different than older people, since you(llepard) are 50, you must know what will work for them. The 15 year olds have no clue because of the generation gap. Stick with it.

acmegeek
11-15-2007, 04:51 PM
I'm pretty sure I speak for all of us offering constructive criticism when I say: THANK YOU!!!

I've said it before and I'll say it again, your effort of putting up your own money to publish this ad is truly a selfless act of patriotism.

I don't have anywhere near that kind of money to donate, but I am willing to give of my services as much as I can. And everyone else who has a talent, give what you can!

So again I say a heartfelt thank you to Larry, Linda and all who have been working so hard on this ad!

francisco
11-15-2007, 04:56 PM
...See he likes the ad guys, You know what i notice? Its the younger generation complaining and saying the ad sucks. How many of us read USA TODAY? Or even pick up a paper and read it for 30 mins or more? My generation has Attention Deficit Disorder.

We get all our news online or TV. What works for us doesn't work for the 50 plus crowd...



I am 53 years old. The Acmegeek version is much better than the latest v.5

4Horsemen
11-15-2007, 04:58 PM
A suggestion I got from another board.

...warned you to guard your rights of citizenship. Now your borders are left open to legions of illegal aliens. The Constitution is a binding agreement between the government and its citizens. The presence of illegal aliens undermines the will of the People. (Ron Paul will secure our borders and put America and Americans first)

Remeber, many people aren't aware of the U.N. agenda, and it may could turn them off. It still supports the resentment of the people without going into uncharted territory.

Chomsky
11-15-2007, 05:15 PM
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY to busy and cluttered. IMHO

acmegeek
11-15-2007, 05:23 PM
This is a full page newspaper ad. On our screens it may appear to be cluttered, but on a full page, it won't look that bad at all. In fact, the opposing page, if it has news will be much denser as far as text goes.

So, just keep that in mind. If they were designing something for a brochure or flyer or something, then yes it is too busy, but the space they have to work with is pretty big.

Aballistar
11-15-2007, 05:37 PM
Still think the founding fathers should be facing center and staring the reader in the eyes. Other than that, GREAT!

Edit: As Sean Edwards shows, above.

DesertRat
11-15-2007, 05:37 PM
This is a full page newspaper ad. On our screens it may appear to be cluttered, but on a full page, it won't look that bad at all. In fact, the opposing page, if it has news will be much denser as far as text goes.

So, just keep that in mind. If they were designing something for a brochure or flyer or something, then yes it is too busy, but the space they have to work with is pretty big.

Good to remember that this thing will be printed on a very large piece of paper next to typical newspaper text.

Also, in all my posts offering suggestions I forgot to thank the generous person who is financing this and working so hard to make it happen.

So here is a big THANK YOU!!

adam1mc
11-15-2007, 05:47 PM
I second that...

Thank you Lawrence

Ron Paul Fan
11-15-2007, 05:53 PM
Revolution is exactly right.

Advice to llepard: Follow your heart.

It's time to just run the ad. Talk talk talk, delete delete delete, they won't like this, they won't like that, blah blah blah. RUN IT DAMNIT!!!!!!!!!

Midnight77
11-15-2007, 06:19 PM
I must also agree very strongly that Ron Paul should have a much bigger pic then what he has in the ad. Sorry to be picky, but a lot of money is being spent on this and we get one shot at it.

gworrel
11-15-2007, 06:29 PM
I have not been following the development and discussion of this. As a result my perspective may be a little fresher than some. I had looked at the first draft a couple of days ago and now I have looked at the latest draft and compared some parts of it to the 2nd draft just recently posted.

One first impression when reading the first ad was I didn't understand the "We the Founders" construct. The second draft with "The Founding Fathers..." makes much more sense to me.

Reading the latest draft I hate to say it but I was immediately put off by the first paragraph about foreign entanglements. In the second draft, that paragraph was simple and to the point. In the latest draft, it made me want to just stop reading and skip down. I test in the 99th percentile in reading comprehension but the second sentence in that paragraph is way too complex for the intended purpose here. Once you have read it 5 times it may make perfect sense but the average reader is going to stop reading right there at that sentence. A small part of the problem is the punctuation. There is no reason for a comma after "weapons".

Better yet, I suggest returning to a sentence more like the one in the 2nd draft. My suggestion: "Now thousands of our men and women suffer and die in foreign battles with no real connection to our national security." This helps to bring out the idea that Ron Paul is not opposed to defending the country when our national security is involved. The "we once funded" part is too confusing to people who are not knowledgeable about the history of many of our overseas adversaries. Which means most readers will not know what that is about.

Hope this helps. Thanks.

expatinireland
11-15-2007, 06:54 PM
Just looked at the ad for the first time. I agree that "The Founding Fathers" reads
easier than "We The Founding Fathers".

In the "warned" clauses, in some instances I find the uses of you, and your confusing. Most people when they see the word "you" take it to mean themselves.

For example In the first "warned" clause I believe "trusted allies and friends America supports" is clearer than "trusted allies and friends that you support".

Parenthesis are not required around Ron Paul's positions in bold.

All in my own honest opinion.

Many thanks to the generous benefactor.

torchbearer
11-15-2007, 06:55 PM
Surely, but if I were going to drop 100k, I certainly wouldn't mind - actually, strike that, I'd be doing everything in my power to garner as many multiple millions in free MSM-over-reacting advertising as I could get.

Its called the truth - and its on the side of Dr. Paul.

QFT!

freedom_junkie
11-15-2007, 06:58 PM
Run it, just run it! people will know it was a supporter who ran it, no one is perfect. The message comes out!

Libertarian
11-15-2007, 07:02 PM
"Reading the latest draft I hate to say it but I was immediately put off by the first paragraph about foreign entanglements. In the second draft, that paragraph was simple and to the point. In the latest draft, it made me want to just stop reading and skip down. I test in the 99th percentile in reading comprehension but the second sentence in that paragraph is way too complex for the intended purpose here. Once you have read it 5 times it may make perfect sense but the average reader is going to stop reading right there at that sentence. A small part of the problem is the punctuation. There is no reason for a comma after "weapons".


Agree 100%

Other than that, the ad is perfect. Even if nothing is changed, it's still near perfect. Just run it. It's GOOD! :)

davidkachel
11-15-2007, 07:11 PM
If you change "we the founding fathers" for just "the founding fathers", then all semblance of arrogance is removed and you've got it. You do not want to give the impression that RP or his supporters claim to speak for the founding fathers.

TennesseeVol4RP08
11-15-2007, 07:24 PM
I think we need to attack. But, thankfully, it is not up to me. I would make more enemies than friends. Treason should be taken ALOT more seriously.

jpinkerton
11-15-2007, 07:35 PM
Anyone else think the white looks like a tombstone?

TennesseeVol4RP08
11-15-2007, 07:39 PM
I like it . the white looks fine. the message is strong.

Stealth4
11-15-2007, 07:49 PM
2 Items, 1 specific, 1 general

Specific: First "...warned" item is a sentence that does not read well. I suggest "all too often become enemies who take the lives of your brave soldiers" insread of "all too often become enemies you've enabled to take the lives of your brave soldiers"

General: Bottom of the page on the left, the bulleted list - put something in there that Ron Paul is for friendship with all nations, true free trade - right now it does sound a little isolationist.

Otherwise great job and thank you for allowing us to submit comments!

Dan D.
11-15-2007, 07:51 PM
I don't think it's absolutely necessary to have the FF's facing inward, but I do think that after the typos and the lobbyist line were corrected, the first draft was one of the best.

Ron's picture should be at the same size as the others. The message may be what's important, but we need to get the man elected. Facial recognition is important.

Stealth4
11-15-2007, 08:00 PM
Facial recognition is important.

agree

Ethek
11-15-2007, 08:02 PM
Agreed, I had the same urge as Libertarian on the last draft.

Man from La Mancha
11-15-2007, 08:06 PM
Anyone else think the white looks like a tombstone?
Could a be very effective mental image, considering our Republic is dying.

.

MRoCkEd
11-15-2007, 08:21 PM
The Second Draft Was Fine

jenninlouisiana
11-15-2007, 08:25 PM
I miss the part about " a government that is big enough to give you what you want is..... to take everything you have..." I thought that was powerful.

But....... I think it is so generous of you to do an AD, and that is the most important aspect of this.

work2win
11-15-2007, 08:25 PM
Can I vote for the Third draft?

I think we hit a pinnacle with that draft. Now we're back to the Founders talking from beyond the grave.

max
11-15-2007, 08:31 PM
this finished product is a watered down ABORTION...an empty shell of the original masterpiece than ran in New Hampshire..

The hook is gone....all the power words is gone...new shit was added to the founders letter which did not need to be..

This is an incoherent...non-flowing Frankenestein monster..

Read the original pre-abortion "consensus" version...and then compare to this bland Presidents Day sale add..

the abortion is a microcosm of America today...a consensus of "play it safe" foools bringing down the bold geniuses

llepard
11-15-2007, 08:33 PM
this finished product is a watered down ABORTION...an empty shell of the original masterpiece than ran in New Hampshire..

The hook is gone....all the power words is gone...new shit was added to the founders letter which did not need to be..

This is an incoherent...non-flowing Frankenestein monster..

Read the original pre-abortion "consensus" version...and then compare to this bland Presidents Day sale add..

the abortion is a microcosm of America today...a consensus of "play it safe" foools bringing down the bold geniuses

I hear you Max, but it's going to be OK. Think big picture, think strategic. We want to win, not just make a point.

LWL

fcofer
11-15-2007, 08:44 PM
So, that being said, I liked the layout and design of the ad, but thought I could improve it a little.

WOW! That was a real improvement in the layout, in my opinion! (Click acmegeek's name to see his layout in the earlier post.) I love the Statue of Liberty overlay -- it really draws the eye from a distance.

I think that the ad has gotten a LOT better in its mainstream appeal, and I also agree with those who say that we should include information rather than trying to be merely catchy -- it's information that actually gets people interested (at least the kind of people we want right now).

I support the wording in the earlier draft about thousands fighting and dying with no real connection to our national security -- that does reassure the reader that Ron Paul is not for "abolishing the military", as per that ridiculous Face the Nation question.

Thanks again, llepard! No matter what gets run now, it's going to be excellent and I am convinced that we are going to gain a lot of supporters (and a lot more teaparty cash) from this! This is awesome!

gworrel
11-15-2007, 09:13 PM
Document writing by committee is not impossible but it does take time and patience. It may sometimes get worse before it gets better. Those who are so critical would do better to offer specific suggestions instead of just throwing up their hands.

An informative piece can do more to persuade than a simple image ad with slogans. I think the important thing is to keep it simple and the writing must be very clean. It probably makes sense to have this checked over by a professional writer or editor.
Please do not "just run it" to be done with it. Sometimes it takes many drafts and a lot of work to come up with a piece that has the clarity and quality that makes it look as effortless and powerful as the first draft, but without the mistakes and flaws. Thanks.

Pete Kay
11-15-2007, 09:24 PM
this finished product is a watered down ABORTION...an empty shell of the original masterpiece than ran in New Hampshire..

The hook is gone....all the power words is gone...new shit was added to the founders letter which did not need to be..

This is an incoherent...non-flowing Frankenestein monster..

Read the original pre-abortion "consensus" version...and then compare to this bland Presidents Day sale add..

the abortion is a microcosm of America today...a consensus of "play it safe" foools bringing down the bold geniuses

I didn't even know this ad was on a 5th version already! After looking at your original ad Max, I have to agree. This final version is very awkward in the way that it is written. If it is going to have the Founders speaking to the the American people, then all the mentions of Ron Paul need to be taken out in the actual letter portion. It does not flow at all with having the Ron Paul points in paranthesis after each warning. This really jumps the gun and is breaks up the pace of the letter, causing disinterest. The ad should flow upwards towards a creshendo with Ron Paul being at the crest of it. Also the ad is not believable as an imaginary letter from the Founders because it does not use their language and style of writing.

I feel badly, since I was such a loud critic of the 1st draft. It did need to address the Founders speaking in first person issue, but it did not do it in a sastifactory way. I agree that the ad has lost its punch. I appreciate llepard taking advice and criticism, but I think the ad has become too much of a potpourri of ideas and lost it's focus. I'm sorry about that.

Leslie Webb
11-15-2007, 10:55 PM
2 Items, 1 specific, 1 general

Specific: First "...warned" item is a sentence that does not read well. I suggest "all too often become enemies who take the lives of your brave soldiers" instead of "all too often become enemies you've enabled to take the lives of your brave soldiers"


Agree. "all too often become enemies you've enabled to take the lives of your brave soldiers" sounds awkward and unnatural. Use the suggested "all too often become enemies who take the lives of your brave soldiers" instead.

Sol
11-15-2007, 11:06 PM
How many straw polls were there in total. It might be more informative to say "Ron Paul has placed 1st or 2nd in 27 of X straw polls..." in the line near the bottom.

Proemio
11-15-2007, 11:11 PM
I hear you Max, but it's going to be OK. Think big picture, think strategic. We want to win, not just make a point.

LWL

That was nicely put, but terribly harsh in it's implication - uncalled for.

I'm confident that Max want's to win AND has the necessary good sense to get there.

And I'd love to know where you see the big picture in this travesty.

cien750hp
11-15-2007, 11:14 PM
That was nicely put, but terribly harsh in it's implication - uncalled for.

I'm confident that Max want's to win AND has the necessary good sense to get there.

And I'd love to know where you see the big picture in this travesty.

well, i for one see the big picture as he is paying for this ad completely with his own money, therefore he decides what should go in and has all final decisions, lay off man. llepard is a great guy, i mean really, who else has done something this big? let him do it how he wants

torchbearer
11-15-2007, 11:16 PM
That was nicely put, but terribly harsh in it's implication - uncalled for.

I'm confident that Max want's to win AND has the necessary good sense to get there.

And I'd love to know where you see the big picture in this travesty.

travesty in the big picture or big picture in the travesty?

max
11-15-2007, 11:16 PM
That was nicely put, but terribly harsh in it's implication - uncalled for.

I'm confident that Max want's to win AND has the necessary good sense to get there.

And I'd love to know where you see the big picture in this travesty.

it is his money....so lets be respectful...

larry is one of the heroes of this forum and he's just as ballsy as we are....i just think the naysayers had him second guessing...

they almost got in my head when i ran the original in NH...it's a real mind f***...

speciallyblend
11-15-2007, 11:17 PM
naysayers have been wrong like george w bush,so dont really listen to them,follow your heart;)

Man from La Mancha
11-15-2007, 11:17 PM
That was nicely put, but terribly harsh in it's implication - uncalled for.

I'm confident that Max want's to win AND has the necessary good sense to get there.

And I'd love to know where you see the big picture in this travesty.Just a difference of opinion from life experiences. With out Max this ad would not be this good and without Llepard it would not be possible . So I thank God for both of them and I sure have gotten a lot of entertainment out of all of this. I love you guys.



http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/9435/blackwsmallyh7.gif (teaparty07.com)..http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/8947/brighton7gs5.gif (teaparty07.com)..copy,paste,linked to teaparty07.com , either one

tremendoustie
11-15-2007, 11:26 PM
I just want to say, I think all of these versions are really quite good, and any of them will have an enormously positive impact. I deeply thank llepard for his extrordinary generosity, and I can't wait to see it in the USA Today! Also, getting lots of ideas and opinions is important, but sometimes one needs an individual to make final decisions, and to protect an overall vision. I think we've all aired lots of ideas, and if there are any remaining changes llepard wants to make, or any cases where he'd like to revert to an older version, he should do it, and send it to print. This is going to be absolutely epic, in any case! Thanks so much!

acmegeek
11-15-2007, 11:50 PM
In response to some feedback from others, I have made a NEW design revision.

Please let me know what you think.

Thanks!

http://s3os.com/misc/ron_paul_ad.jpg

Man from La Mancha
11-16-2007, 12:01 AM
Like it.

.

Aballistar
11-16-2007, 12:19 AM
Seconded

Dan D.
11-16-2007, 12:50 AM
I mean the following the most constructive, positive way possible, and don't in any way intend to be disparaging of the work llepard and acmegeek and others have done. That it's down to fairly small stuff like this is an indicator of how well it's coming along.

From top to bottom, on acmegeek's most recent:

I really like the statue of Liberty in the background, but I worry how good that'll look at the 80 dpi most newspapers print at (if that's no longer the case, please correct me!).

I think the term in the Declaration of Independence was "pledge" not "risk" with regards to lives, fortunes, sacred honor. They weren't hedging their bets, and they would have been executed by the crown had they lost. Makes a nice tie-in to the teaparty07 pledge as well.

Why are all the Ron Paul will... bolded bits in parentheses?

The phrasing on the second half of the second sentence of the first warning could be simpler.

"National Security", "National Debt", "Central Bank (The", "Government", "People" should not be capitalized.

Might want to replace or supplement "fiat" with "inflationary". Not necessary though.

"legions" sounds... I don't know, but not good. Sensationalist and hyperbolic, maybe. I'd replace it with "millions"

No periods at the end of the two lines above "For these reasons..."

There seems to be a slight curve to "We the People", but it's subtle to the point that you're not sure if its an optical illusion. It should either be straight or visibly curved.

Bigger picture of Paul!

On the third and fifth checkmark bullets on the left, there are incomplete sentences following complete ones. Add in a "Ron Paul" or "Congressman Ron Paul" before each of them.

Not sure what to do about it, but as President, Paul would not have the authority to end birthright citizenship. He would, however, call for an amendment to do so.

Though I think it's to be removed anyway, and it might be just my eyes, it looks like there's no space between "or" and "special" in "or special interest groups".

Politeia
11-16-2007, 01:22 AM
There seems to be a slight curve to "We the People", but it's subtle to the point that you're not sure if its an optical illusion. It should either be straight or visibly curved.

This has been noted before; the line is curved, but the reason it looks awkward (and amateurish) is because "The" is capitalized, and the capital "T" is too big. This can be corrected easily by using a lower-case "t": "We the People", which is not only correct typesetting style (articles are customarily not capitalized in titles or headings) but also accurate to the original -- see the upper left corner of this and every Ron Paul Forums webpage. The Constitution begins with "We the People", not "We The People".

wfd40
11-16-2007, 02:01 AM
Dan D.

Nice points... I agree on pretty much all of them, especially the parenthesis - Those are statements! Let them stand on their own :)

Man from La Mancha
11-16-2007, 02:08 AM
I mean the following the most constructive, positive way possible, and don't in any way intend to be disparaging of the work llepard and acmegeek and others have done. That it's down to fairly small stuff like this is an indicator of how well it's coming along".

Welcome aboard, and thanks for the evidently thoughtful comments.

.

Marc
11-16-2007, 03:20 AM
Hello,

I want to thank the the person making this ad. While I don't mean any dis-respect, I thought of an alternative way to make the ad much easier to read. I just found this ad tonight and my first impressions are that it is a doom and gloom kind of ad. If you ever watch some Mike Gravel speeches - he uses the same tone. It really turns people off when there's negativity. The ad in my opinion should be the positive things Ron Paul will do. I also think there needs to be more white space, it is very hard to read. Again, I don't mean any disrespect. I simply shortened the length of the ad by wording it in a simpler way. You can take it or leave it.

http://www.animateclay.com/images/ron/paulad1.jpg
http://www.animateclay.com/images/ron/paulad2.jpg

small

http://www.animateclay.com/images/ron/paulad3.jpg

Ninja Homer
11-16-2007, 03:21 AM
I thought I'd take a swing at laying this out differently. All the same elements are there except I replaced "An Open Letter To The American People" with "Ron Paul for President" because I think that's what the focus should be. It could be switched back just as easily.

Keep in mind that I did this very quick and dirty just to see how it would look. Some things are out of proportion, there are some squiggly lines where they should be straight, etc. This was chopped up from acmegeek's version, so you can see the Statue of Liberty background, although it got pretty distorted while moving things around. It's just an attempt at giving it a cleaner, less cluttered feel.

http://kelsonmedia.com/ronpaul/newlayout.jpg

Man from La Mancha
11-16-2007, 03:26 AM
Thanks Mark, I like all the input, to see differences. Welcome aboard!




http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/9435/blackwsmallyh7.gif (teaparty07.com)..http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/8947/brighton7gs5.gif (teaparty07.com)..copy,paste,linked to teaparty07.com , either one, only 1 million at $100

Man from La Mancha
11-16-2007, 03:31 AM
I thought I'd take a swing at laying this out differently. All the same elements are there except I replaced "An Open Letter To The American People" with "Ron Paul for President" because I think that's what the focus should be. It could be switched back just as easily.

Keep in mind that I did this very quick and dirty just to see how it would look. Some things are out of proportion, there are some squiggly lines where they should be straight, etc. This was chopped up from acmegeek's version, so you can see the Statue of Liberty background, although it got pretty distorted while moving things around. It's just an attempt at giving it a cleaner, less cluttered feel.

http://kelsonmedia.com/ronpaul/newlayout.jpg

Nice, I like to see something I have not imagined.

.


http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/9435/blackwsmallyh7.gif (teaparty07.com)..http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/8947/brighton7gs5.gif (teaparty07.com)..copy,paste,linked to teaparty07.com , either one, only 1 million at $100

llepard
11-16-2007, 04:09 AM
Dan D.

Nice points... I agree on pretty much all of them, especially the parenthesis - Those are statements! Let them stand on their own :)

The parenthesis are now out, there is an elipses between each founders statement and what RP would do.

llepard
11-16-2007, 04:12 AM
How many straw polls were there in total. It might be more informative to say "Ron Paul has placed 1st or 2nd in 27 of X straw polls..." in the line near the bottom.

We thought of that, but what we went with is actually a more positive statement, if you know what i mean.

L

Channing
11-16-2007, 05:23 AM
My suggestion would be to exchange Franklin with Washington so you would have all portraits facing the reader.

Also a bigger portrait of Ron Paul and a bigger text for "Ron Paul for President".

Libertarian
11-16-2007, 05:35 AM
All of the revisions look great. It's hard to decide which is best...I think any one of them would be awesome! Thank you again for doing this lep! :)

Convert
11-16-2007, 06:18 AM
This ones the best. If George and Ben switched places, they'd all be looking towards the center.

Voice
11-16-2007, 06:20 AM
I thing this revision should be the final.

syborius
11-16-2007, 06:48 AM
I thought I'd take a swing at laying this out differently. All the same elements are there except I replaced "An Open Letter To The American People" with "Ron Paul for President" because I think that's what the focus should be. It could be switched back just as easily.

Keep in mind that I did this very quick and dirty just to see how it would look. Some things are out of proportion, there are some squiggly lines where they should be straight, etc. This was chopped up from acmegeek's version, so you can see the Statue of Liberty background, although it got pretty distorted while moving things around. It's just an attempt at giving it a cleaner, less cluttered feel.

http://kelsonmedia.com/ronpaul/newlayout.jpg

bravo. no gravestone!

kipload
11-16-2007, 07:30 AM
In response to some feedback from others, I have made a NEW design revision.

Please let me know what you think.

Thanks!

http://s3os.com/misc/ron_paul_ad.jpg

Acmegeek,

Could you please try the following so we can see what it looks like... Some of us have been asking for the following.

1) Remove the Ron Paul info in parenthesis from the "warned us..." section.

2) Change the the wording of the four middle bullet points. Instead of what Ron Paul "will do" make it read what he "is" doing or "has" done.

3) Only list the website and phone number (1-877-RON-PAUL) at the bottom.

4) "legions of illegals" to "millions of illegals"

These items have been brought up by a few people here, and I think using your version with the statue overlay (which is AWESOME) and these minor tweaks and this version will be about perfect.

maeqFREEDOMfree
11-16-2007, 07:43 AM
I'd make the pres-pics face eachother too... other than that it looks and sounds pretty good.

Nice work and thanks to those responsible to making it happen things like this, more things like this should be done

Proemio
11-16-2007, 07:49 AM
travesty in the big picture or big picture in the travesty?

The travesty of the process.

The first thing you do when starting an advertising project - any project - is nail down the purpose, then the strategy.
What precisely do you want to achieve, i.e. the big picture of the project, and how best to achieve it. i.e. the strategy.

When the first thread was initiated, we had an ad with a request for comments and suggestions. Since there was no statement of purpose, except "post your thoughts". That amounted to throwing a piece of red meat into a pond of piranhas. I don't suggest that was the idea, but that's how it inevitably had to work out. Some tearing on this, some one that. Some going in this direction, some in the opposite - all over the place. It's still going on, after x threads and n revisions. Huge amounts of energy being wasted on cross-purposes. All because there was never a statement of purpose.

Now we learn that there actually is/was a big picture and a strategy?

The easily avoidable mess is the travesty.

HammerDR
11-16-2007, 07:49 AM
I helped work on the Ames ad (those of you that helped should remember) :). Throughout the process, we had several designs being discussed. Each of these designs were redone over and over again. Each design had its own drastic changes. While this ad has been less of a job done by the community, I don't think that there is any reason why this couldn't have done the same. I realize that it is nearly deadline and that having people come up with new ideas in less that 24 hours is a little.. pressing. So, I'm not going to say that you must completely redesign it (plus, its your money). Unfortunately, my advice comes too late, but here it is any way: don't be afraid to alter the design. Don't be afraid to be radical with it. Don't by afraid to omit important things and don't be afraid to leave things out. Advertisements are about quick punches that grab people's attention. Using pictures, symbols, etc. are how you convey deeper meaning into the advertisement. Ads are a form of art that appeal to the emotional and sensual side of people in order to compel them to do something else--in our case it should be to learn more about Ron Paul. However, this advertisement reads like a legal argument. And, while I appreciate everything that the ad states, not many people are like me and enjoy reading court decisions because of the exciting legal arguments. :P

I also know that you're going for a different kind of ad. However, a wall of text, while "different" is bad for several reasons.

1) It's a newspaper. The newspaper itself is a wall of text and it will be hard to point out.

2) A wall of text is often very scary to people (thus why USA Today has all those flashy colors).

3) While persuading the well-informed takes a long, reasoned argument--people that take things at a passing glance (such as adverts) are motivated by images. These images can be invoked by words, sounds, color or the images themselves. In order to convince most people that they want Dr. Paul, you have to find things that they'll associate with a man that they want to be President.

I appreciate what is going on here--however, I do believe that this ad went the wrong direction in the first place. But, since this is your money and this is your decision, I can only trust that you do what is best with your own money. I wish you the best of luck no matter what decision you make. Thanks again!

Proemio
11-16-2007, 08:10 AM
Just a difference of opinion from life experiences. With out Max this ad would not be this good and without Llepard it would not be possible . So I thank God for both of them and I sure have gotten a lot of entertainment out of all of this. I love you guys.

Absolutely!

That's why I took offense.
It's foolish to argue what has more value: the ideas, or the means.
But we certainly don't need to have a man of ideas (and action) devalued in the eyes of those easily impressed.

I wish this thing be put to bed already - any version...

mtmedlin
11-16-2007, 08:20 AM
I am not getting into the whole debate on the message. At some point you have to stop editing and send it to the printers. At this point we have a severe case of ANALYSIS PARALYSIS.
My one and ONLY suggestion is to use th overlay that Acmeuy put in. It does break it up a little and help with the tombstone look.

voytechs
11-16-2007, 08:22 AM
Okay, one more time here.

Top: BAD.
Bottom: good!

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/4880/rpusatodayfixer1.jpg

And another idea:
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/3433/rpusatodayfk7.jpg

Or better yet, under the words "warned..." in the same column, put "Ron Paul will..." and then the solution. Make it explicit that this is what Ron Paul will do to fix it.

bmcosti
11-16-2007, 08:25 AM
Ninja Homer's proposal wowed me. It struck me as much more readable. Much more appealing and less intimidating to me. I would be much more willing to read that one at first glance then the one that we have been editing. It has a much more "newspapery" feel to it.

TooConservative
11-16-2007, 08:44 AM
I agree with the guy saying bigger picture of Ron.

Four pictures of the Founders are nice but each one is twice as big as Ron's picture. A lot of ad space being devoted to just those pics.

Not sure how the black semi-oval background at the top will look. Anyone here a professional graphic designer? I know there are established standards for what works best in these layouts.

Still, it's great as is.

Just my amateur opinions and meant constructively.

raystone
11-16-2007, 08:55 AM
Good Luck. I for one would never read all of that .

How about sticking to encouragement and appreciation for this huge RP effort ? In addition, most who have gained some interest in Ron Paul WILL read the entire ad, takes about a minute. Also MANY who have an interest in the US, of the 5.2 MILLION readers, will read the entire ad.

syborius
11-16-2007, 09:22 AM
I agree with the guy saying bigger picture of Ron.

Four pictures of the Founders are nice but each one is twice as big as Ron's picture. A lot of ad space being devoted to just those pics.

Not sure how the black semi-oval background at the top will look. Anyone here a professional graphic designer? I know there are established standards for what works best in these layouts.

Still, it's great as is.

Just my amateur opinions and meant constructively.

yes, ninja homer fixed most of what was wrong. i've been in design for over 12 years. look at both.

kipload
11-16-2007, 09:26 AM
I thought I'd take a swing at laying this out differently. All the same elements are there except I replaced "An Open Letter To The American People" with "Ron Paul for President" because I think that's what the focus should be. It could be switched back just as easily.

Keep in mind that I did this very quick and dirty just to see how it would look. Some things are out of proportion, there are some squiggly lines where they should be straight, etc. This was chopped up from acmegeek's version, so you can see the Statue of Liberty background, although it got pretty distorted while moving things around. It's just an attempt at giving it a cleaner, less cluttered feel.

http://kelsonmedia.com/ronpaul/newlayout.jpg

+1 (minus the "Ron Paul will..." in the "warned us..." section.)

Mauiboy86
11-16-2007, 09:37 AM
I agree that the "We the Founding Fathers" would look and read better as "The Founding Fahers"

MsDoodahs
11-16-2007, 09:44 AM
When is Draft #6 going to be posted?

RonPaulStreetTeam
11-16-2007, 09:50 AM
I helped work on the Ames ad (those of you that helped should remember) :). Throughout the process, we had several designs being discussed. Each of these designs were redone over and over again. Each design had its own drastic changes. While this ad has been less of a job done by the community, I don't think that there is any reason why this couldn't have done the same. I realize that it is nearly deadline and that having people come up with new ideas in less that 24 hours is a little.. pressing. So, I'm not going to say that you must completely redesign it (plus, its your money). Unfortunately, my advice comes too late, but here it is any way: don't be afraid to alter the design. Don't be afraid to be radical with it. Don't by afraid to omit important things and don't be afraid to leave things out. Advertisements are about quick punches that grab people's attention. Using pictures, symbols, etc. are how you convey deeper meaning into the advertisement. Ads are a form of art that appeal to the emotional and sensual side of people in order to compel them to do something else--in our case it should be to learn more about Ron Paul. However, this advertisement reads like a legal argument. And, while I appreciate everything that the ad states, not many people are like me and enjoy reading court decisions because of the exciting legal arguments. :P

I also know that you're going for a different kind of ad. However, a wall of text, while "different" is bad for several reasons.

1) It's a newspaper. The newspaper itself is a wall of text and it will be hard to point out.

2) A wall of text is often very scary to people (thus why USA Today has all those flashy colors).

3) While persuading the well-informed takes a long, reasoned argument--people that take things at a passing glance (such as adverts) are motivated by images. These images can be invoked by words, sounds, color or the images themselves. In order to convince most people that they want Dr. Paul, you have to find things that they'll associate with a man that they want to be President.

I appreciate what is going on here--however, I do believe that this ad went the wrong direction in the first place. But, since this is your money and this is your decision, I can only trust that you do what is best with your own money. I wish you the best of luck no matter what decision you make. Thanks again!

that's what I've been trying to say but only get attacked by a small group egging this in the wrong direction.

meadors
11-16-2007, 09:51 AM
1) Remove the "WE" at top.

2) Ron Paul will put America and Americans first is stated TWICE. Remove the 4 statements above Ron Paul's picture, then enlarge his picture.

3) Place text or a picture of the American flag on the left side of his picture for balance, or remove the text on the right side.

4) The word "Preemptive" is listed twice on the bottom left statements. Remove the text about Iran, due to the news yesterday by the military ... IRAN may no longer be an issue.

5) Change the order to the 3rd, 4th & 5th statements on the left so that the sentence lengths continue with the shortest lines first and flow to the longest lines (instead of having the longest lines in the middle).

6) The statement "Together we can change the World" is not consistant with Ron Paul's statments of a humble foreign policy and minding our own business. Change it to "Together we can restore the Republic .... and/or Freedom and Liberty.

7) Are you sure Ron Paul has never or will not accept any money from special interest groups or lobbyist, directly or indirectly?

cero
11-16-2007, 09:52 AM
God damn people STOP butchering it!
Let the guy do it the way he wants

meadors
11-16-2007, 10:03 AM
I like this layout since it hits you right way with Ron Paul for President and has the larger picture and immediately talks about Ron Paul on the right top.

fcofer
11-16-2007, 11:59 AM
7) Are you sure Ron Paul has never or will not accept any money from special interest groups or lobbyist, directly or indirectly?

I thought that this had already been fixed. :confused:

I'd like to comment that I really like Ninja Homer's new layout, even more than AcmeGeek's. :p I hope you consider it, llepard.

TechnoGuyRob
11-16-2007, 12:12 PM
http://kelsonmedia.com/ronpaul/newlayout.jpg

I love it!!! Much, much better. Ron Paul needs to be prominent. Very nice.

smither
11-16-2007, 12:35 PM
Has a PDF been posted of the latest version? I have a chance to run this in a local paper next week (day after the USA Today run) but really need a PDF so I can modify it for our paper. Deadine is fast approaching.

Thanks.

WAIT - I just saw the new thread with the link- thanks anyway!