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brandon
04-24-2012, 05:14 PM
Polls close today at 8:00 PM EST. Results for all contests (Including RNC Delegates and Alternates) will be posted here (http://www.electionreturns.state.pa.us/), but I'm not sure how quickly it will update.

The list of Ron Paul Delegate candidates is here (http://www.ronpaul2012.com/2012/04/22/pennsylvania-delegates/).


In addition to the obvious Delegate races, we have some candidates in the US Senate primary that are worht keeping an eye on. Sam Rohrer is the Tea Party favorite and is a hawkish conservative that many like. Scaringi is a liberty candidate.

Good luck all!

PauliticsPolitics
04-24-2012, 05:18 PM
For those who don't catch it, the link to the Delegate election is on the left along with other contests.

Here is the direct link to the PA GOP Delegate contest results:
http://www.electionreturns.state.pa.us/ElectionsInformation.aspx?FunctionID=13&ElectionID=45&OfficeID=18
(http://www.electionreturns.state.pa.us/ElectionsInformation.aspx?FunctionID=13&ElectionID=45&OfficeID=18)
And Alternates:
http://www.electionreturns.state.pa.us/ElectionsInformation.aspx?FunctionID=13&ElectionID=45&OfficeID=20

(http://www.electionreturns.state.pa.us/ElectionsInformation.aspx?FunctionID=13&ElectionID=45&OfficeID=20)And Beauty Contest:
http://www.electionreturns.state.pa.us/ElectionsInformation.aspx?FunctionID=13&ElectionID=45&OfficeID=1

tsai3904
04-24-2012, 05:26 PM
Also, for those who are curious, the delegate names listed in the election results page are in the same order they were listed on the ballots. It will be interesting to see how many blindly voted for the top 3 or top 4.

brandon
04-24-2012, 06:32 PM
results slowly coming in now

digitaldean
04-24-2012, 06:35 PM
results slowly coming in now

And people are still voting for Santorum in Warren County with 0.1% in.....sad.

zHorns
04-24-2012, 06:36 PM
delete

rodo1776
04-24-2012, 06:36 PM
RP hanging in close below Santo but of course very early with not much reporting. . Lets look for a beat on Santo in a CD or two.

JebSanderson
04-24-2012, 06:40 PM
Precincts Reporting: 0.1%

M. Romney 47.9% 337
R. Santorum 23.9% 168
R. Paul 16.8% 118
N. Gingrich 11.5% 81

PaulSoHard
04-24-2012, 06:42 PM
Are you freaking serious look at all those votes for Santorum that could have been ours...did they not get the memo

sailingaway
04-24-2012, 06:43 PM
Are there absentee ballots?

I'm wondering if these are Santa folks figuring it works as a protest vote, or if there are absentee ballots from before he dropped out mixed in.

JebSanderson
04-24-2012, 06:43 PM
Are you freaking serious look at all those votes for Santorum that could have been ours...did they not get the memo

Protest votes?

RPit
04-24-2012, 06:44 PM
At the moment we are getting 2/3 delegates in CD 15 and 16.. So that is 4 potential delegates atm. This is what I saw just skimming them. Most of the people don't have any votes showing so lets just have our fingers crossed :)

kathy88
04-24-2012, 06:44 PM
Idiots.

JebSanderson
04-24-2012, 06:45 PM
Remember that in PA the popular vote is meaningless, people vote for delegates. It's a "loophole primary".

sailingaway
04-24-2012, 06:46 PM
Protest votes?

absentee ballots before he dropped out?

But if people are doing protest votes and the media has convinced them there is no chance for anyone, I guess they would think they might as well vote someone who dropped out. Media serving the OPPOSITE of its purpose to have an informed electorate. It makes people THINK they have been informed, when they have been actively misled.

SchleckBros
04-24-2012, 06:47 PM
0.76% reporting

GINGRICH, NEWT (REP)
879 10.0%

ROMNEY, MITT (REP)
4,786 56.0%

PAUL, RON (REP)
1,377 15.8%

SANTORUM, RICK (REP)
1,650 18.1%

RPit
04-24-2012, 06:47 PM
2/3 Delegates from CD 6 that are in the lead are Paul Delegates..

(given there is no point at looking at the overall results, I'm just going to post Delegate 'wins' we could get ) - Screw the popular vote!

kathy88
04-24-2012, 06:48 PM
So far in CD 10 we have two delegates ahead. The one in first has total name recognition. So that's great! And we only had two alternate delegates and they are in the 1 and 2 spots!

PaulSoHard
04-24-2012, 06:49 PM
Yea, we should concentrate on posting the delegates who are being voted upon right now :)

rodo1776
04-24-2012, 06:49 PM
CNN map showing philly with RP in second by a few votes. Very small percentage reporting but a very nice potential trend due to the amount of votes there vs the state.

brandon
04-24-2012, 06:49 PM
Looks like we have a good shot of getting 1/3 in district 1. My uneducated guess is that Paul will end up with about 10-15 delegates from PA. (out of 72)

digitaldean
04-24-2012, 06:49 PM
At the moment we are getting 2/3 delegates in CD 15 and 16.. So that is 4 potential delegates atm. This is what I saw just skimming them. Most of the people don't have any votes showing so lets just have our fingers crossed :)

Yea PA vote is meaningless:

http://www.ronpaul2012.com/2012/04/22/pennsylvania-delegates/

http://www.electionreturns.state.pa.us/ElectionsInformation.aspx?FunctionID=13&ElectionID=45&OfficeID=18

Less than 1% is in so lets hope the people on the street got up at least half of the 72.

kathy88
04-24-2012, 06:51 PM
Looks like we have a good shot of getting 1/3 in district 1. My uneducated guess is that Paul will end up with about 10-15 delegates from PA. (out of 50 something)

There are 69 and 3 super = 72

brandon
04-24-2012, 06:52 PM
I'm getting creamed but only about 30 votes in so far. lol I guess I won't be in tampa. :(

sailingaway
04-24-2012, 06:54 PM
I'm getting creamed but only about 30 votes in so far. lol I guess I won't be in tampa. :(

who are you running against?

I understand Romney's strategy was to use well known people as his delegates so people would vote on name recognition.

RonRules
04-24-2012, 06:54 PM
"Live Gingrigh Rally underway" is the headline on CNN"

Just a picture of him, no crowds to be seen.

The F************* media is absolutely disgusting.

sailingaway
04-24-2012, 06:56 PM
"Live Gingrigh Rally underway" is the headline on CNN"

Just a picture of him, no crowds to be seen.

The F************* media is absolutely disgusting.

what makes you think there are any crowds?

brandon
04-24-2012, 06:57 PM
who are you running against?

I understand Romney's strategy was to use well known people as his delegates so people would vote on name recognition.

Romney doesn't pick the delegates. None of the delegates are pledged. Basically a couple of the party big shots run in every district with the party's endorsement. In my district they put up the former county commissioner, the county prothonotary, and county chairperson. (I think)

Jarg
04-24-2012, 06:57 PM
Its fully romney sweep no need watch results pretty much confirmed now.

kathy88
04-24-2012, 06:58 PM
Romney doesn't pick the delegates. None of the delegates are pledged. Basically a couple of the party big shots run in every district with the party's endorsement. In my district they put up the former county commissioner, the county prothonotary, and county chairperson. (I think)

Don't lose hope. It's early.

69360
04-24-2012, 06:58 PM
In mine we have a sitting US congressman running for delegate.

brandon
04-24-2012, 06:58 PM
To add, more important than name recognition even is ballot placement. If you are in the top 3 ballot spots you will most likely win. Top 3 are winning in my district. I'm in slot 5.

digitaldean
04-24-2012, 06:58 PM
"Live Gingrigh Rally underway" is the headline on CNN"

Just a picture of him, no crowds to be seen.

The F************* media is absolutely disgusting.

Most likely he will say he is leaving the race. He only got 25% in Delaware while is at 56%.

parocks
04-24-2012, 06:59 PM
At the moment we are getting 2/3 delegates in CD 15 and 16.. So that is 4 potential delegates atm. This is what I saw just skimming them. Most of the people don't have any votes showing so lets just have our fingers crossed :)

with 70 districts out of 9000 some - I count 6 delegates

digitaldean
04-24-2012, 06:59 PM
Too add, more important than name recognition even is ballot placement. If you are in the top 3 ballot spots you will most likely win. Top 3 are winning in my district. I'm in slot 5.

Are you required to vote for delegates in PA?

parocks
04-24-2012, 07:01 PM
CNN map showing philly with RP in second by a few votes. Very small percentage reporting but a very nice potential trend due to the amount of votes there vs the state.

philly = lots of democrats - they won't be voting in the republican primary.

69360
04-24-2012, 07:02 PM
Are you required to vote for delegates in PA?

No.

RPit
04-24-2012, 07:03 PM
At it currently looks I see maybe we'll pull 10-14 delegates in PA- who knows,, hoping for more...

Why didn't anyone from CD7 vote for any of the delegates just- our own people didn't vote for themselves? whats up with that.

GregVernon
04-24-2012, 07:03 PM
Is there any way to tell on the PA results website which delegate is supporting which candidate?

tbone717
04-24-2012, 07:03 PM
Are you required to vote for delegates in PA?

No.

CTRattlesnake
04-24-2012, 07:08 PM
with 70 districts out of 9000 some - I count 6 delegates
link bro?/

RPit
04-24-2012, 07:09 PM
I'm counting at least 7-8 delegates.

SchleckBros
04-24-2012, 07:09 PM
link bro?/

http://www.electionreturns.state.pa.us/ElectionsInformation.aspx?FunctionID=13&ElectionID=45&OfficeID=18

SchleckBros
04-24-2012, 07:10 PM
Is it 3 delegates per district?

justatrey
04-24-2012, 07:10 PM
nvm

rodo1776
04-24-2012, 07:10 PM
philly = lots of democrats - they won't be voting in the republican primary.

You are right 80% dems in Philly. However tonight I am counting only the GOP vote there. Dems dont count and right now RP is in second in Philly with 19% reporting. I want a beat on Santo in PA. Tough but who knows lets watch the results and see.

The Northbreather
04-24-2012, 07:11 PM
Why does Santorum get to stay on the ballot anyway?

justatrey
04-24-2012, 07:12 PM
For those who don't catch it, the link to the Delegate election is on the left along with other contests.

Here is the direct link to the PA GOP Delegate contest results:
http://www.electionreturns.state.pa.us/ElectionsInformation.aspx?FunctionID=13&ElectionID=45&OfficeID=18
(http://www.electionreturns.state.pa.us/ElectionsInformation.aspx?FunctionID=13&ElectionID=45&OfficeID=18)
And Alternates:
http://www.electionreturns.state.pa.us/ElectionsInformation.aspx?FunctionID=13&ElectionID=45&OfficeID=20

(http://www.electionreturns.state.pa.us/ElectionsInformation.aspx?FunctionID=13&ElectionID=45&OfficeID=20)And Beauty Contest:
http://www.electionreturns.state.pa.us/ElectionsInformation.aspx?FunctionID=13&ElectionID=45&OfficeID=1

Nevermind - links here right on the first page. Silly me. Thanks!

Mckarnin
04-24-2012, 07:13 PM
Ugh...I can't believe Santorum got so many votes unless those are all absentee (we do have a lot of old folks in Pittsburgh). Also, looks like there was some kind of strategy in place to get non Ron Paul delegates in because there seem to be a few who are kicking butt. I will come back tomorrow. :(

HOLLYWOOD
04-24-2012, 07:14 PM
Live Updates: 9:01 Romney Wins. With 5% reporting, Romney crusies to a 57% to 14% win over Paul. Sorry Ron Paul Nation.
http://www.policymic.com/articles/7413/live-pennsylvania-gop-primary-results-romney-up-but-ron-paul-can-win

defe07
04-24-2012, 07:18 PM
Any news on the delegate race in Pennsylvania? How many are we projected to win statewide??

rodo1776
04-24-2012, 07:18 PM
cnn shows clearfield county with 20% in And RP winning 586 to 17 is this possible. Anyone from around there to verify the possibility of this?

Maximus
04-24-2012, 07:18 PM
Why does Santorum get to stay on the ballot anyway?

They have to print tens of thousands of ballots, and so when you only drop out a couple weeks before an election, the ballots have already been printed, and re-printing them costs big $$.

Dorfsmith
04-24-2012, 07:18 PM
Am I seeing Clearfield county correctly? Paul 586 Gingrich 17 everybody else 0? Has to be a mistake on the CNN page.

http://www.cnn.com/election/2012/primaries/state/pa

parocks
04-24-2012, 07:20 PM
with 70 districts out of 9000 some - I count 6 delegates

w/ 551 of 9255 - 6 delegates

Maximus
04-24-2012, 07:20 PM
cnn shows clearfield county with 20% in And RP winning 586 to 17 is this possible. Anyone from around there to verify the possibility of this?

Somethings got to be up, Romney has to have a few votes. Grinch has 17 and Romney/Santorum have 0... doesn't make sense.

VictorB
04-24-2012, 07:20 PM
Am I seeing Clearfield county correctly? Paul 586 Gingrich 17 everybody else 0? Has to be a mistake on the CNN page.

http://www.cnn.com/election/2012/primaries/state/pa

They must have forgotten to flip the vote. :p

digitaldean
04-24-2012, 07:20 PM
Anyone looking at this link:

http://www.google.com/elections/ed/us/results/2012/gop-primary/pa

It shows only Paul and Newt and Paul with 586 votes...odd In Clearfield County

SchleckBros
04-24-2012, 07:21 PM
Am I seeing Clearfield county correctly? Paul 586 Gingrich 17 everybody else 0? Has to be a mistake on the CNN page.

http://www.cnn.com/election/2012/primaries/state/pa

PA website says the same things http://www.electionreturns.state.pa.us/ElectionsInformation.aspx?FunctionID=15&ElectionID=45&OfficeID=1

If that's true I'm moving to Clearfield county hahaha

sailingaway
04-24-2012, 07:22 PM
Am I seeing Clearfield county correctly? Paul 586 Gingrich 17 everybody else 0? Has to be a mistake on the CNN page.

http://www.cnn.com/election/2012/primaries/state/pa

Oh, ye of little faith.

Only 20% in though.

Keith and stuff
04-24-2012, 07:23 PM
Why does Santorum get to stay on the ballot anyway?

To save maybe millions of dollars. Otherwise, the state income or sales tax would have to increase. Check out the other states. Or even check out the PA results in 2008. Here, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsylvania_Republican_primary,_2008

Don't worry, almost all of the people in PA voting for Santorum know he is no longer in the case. They just either really dislike Romney, Paul and Gingrich or love Santorum.

69360
04-24-2012, 07:23 PM
Clearfield is a mistake. The offical PA state page has 0% reporting

MarcusI
04-24-2012, 07:23 PM
Paul-Delegates right now:

CD 1 : 1/3
CD 2: 0/3
CD 3: 0/3
CD 4: 1/4
CD 5: 1/3
CD 6: 0/3
CD 7: 1/4
CD 8: 0/4
CD 9: 0/3
CD 10: 1/3
CD 11: 0/3
CD 12: 0/4
CD 13: 0/3
CD 14: 0/3
CD 15: 0/3
CD 16: 0/3
CD 17: 0/3
CD 18: 1/4

Total: 6 Delegates. :(

SNAFU

RickyJ
04-24-2012, 07:23 PM
They must have forgotten to flip the vote. :p

That appears to be the case. Ron Paul doesn't just win, he dominates when a true vote is taken.

rodo1776
04-24-2012, 07:25 PM
now the cnn map has clearfield as zero reporting too good to be true.

justatrey
04-24-2012, 07:26 PM
I don't understand why anyone is surprised Santorum is beating us. He was a senator here. That's all these voters need to know. I'm surprised he's only around 20%.

digitaldean
04-24-2012, 07:28 PM
Paul-Delegates right now:

CD 1 : 1/3
CD 2: 0/3
CD 3: 0/3
CD 4: 1/4
CD 5: 1/3
CD 6: 0/3
CD 7: 1/4
CD 8: 0/4
CD 9: 0/3
CD 10: 1/3
CD 11: 0/3
CD 12: 0/4
CD 13: 0/3
CD 14: 0/3
CD 15: 0/3
CD 16: 0/3
CD 17: 0/3
CD 18: 1/4

Total: 6 Delegates. :(

SNAFU

I counted 2 of 4 in 7...but the real question is whos are just for Mitt I would rather Newt/Santorum get more than Mitt if we don't get half.

RonRules
04-24-2012, 07:29 PM
Ugh...I can't believe Santorum got so many votes unless those are all absentee (we do have a lot of old folks in Pittsburgh). Also, looks like there was some kind of strategy in place to get non Ron Paul delegates in because there seem to be a few who are kicking butt. I will come back tomorrow. :(

When I analyze this and I see that Santorum flat-lines or goes up, I will SCREAM BLOODY M....

RonRules
04-24-2012, 07:30 PM
I don't understand why anyone is surprised Santorum is beating us. He was a senator here. That's all these voters need to know. I'm surprised he's only around 20%.

I case you've loive in a cave, he pulled out a week ago and 20% is actually more than when he lost at his last election try.

tuggy24g
04-24-2012, 07:30 PM
Well I spent the whole day in Lower Bucks CD8 working hard. Put Ron Paul signs in all of Newtown areas were I live polling locations. Than I even went outside and tried to promote the Ron Paul delegates even those the Republicans had there chosen ones already on the sample ballot. So it was a tough fight since we did not have guys all across the district like the GOP did in every polling place. So they had us out numbered. I still tried and votes are still being counted so we will see how things go.

MarcusI
04-24-2012, 07:32 PM
I counted 2 of 4 in 7...but the real question is whos are just for Mitt I would rather Newt/Santorum get more than Mitt if we don't get half.

Right now I count 0/4 ...

Mckarnin
04-24-2012, 07:32 PM
Also, most conservatives I know are still mad at Santorum for selling out. Who knows though...the circles I move in may be too thoughtful. :P

Maximus
04-24-2012, 07:33 PM
I case you've loive in a cave, he pulled out a week ago and 20% is actually more than when he lost at his last election try.

He lost by 18%. That means the vote was like 58%-40%.

Blue
04-24-2012, 07:33 PM
Piers is trying so hard to get an endorsement out of Santorum for Romney. Santorum pretty much endorsed him, though.

"Since I am not in the race, he is the best candidate to win."

Birdlady
04-24-2012, 07:37 PM
No delegates in CD3 were even close unfortunately. Wasn't a good night for us, but I'm glad I can say I voted for liberty!! :D

RickyJ
04-24-2012, 07:37 PM
Also, most conservatives I know are still mad at Santorum for selling out. Who knows though...the circles I move in may be too thoughtful. :P

I don't think you can be too thoughtful. We need a lot more thought to figure out a way to get Ron Paul in the White House in 2013. I don't think we can wait until 2017, I doubt the nation can handle another 4 years of elite wars and the dollar's decline. But Ron Paul is in great shape, if this nation is still around in 2016 he would still be more than capable of running for president again.

SchleckBros
04-24-2012, 07:39 PM
Rick Santorum just endorsed Mittens :rolleyes:

RPit
04-24-2012, 07:39 PM
I see 3/4 Delegates from just CD7 :)

justatrey
04-24-2012, 07:40 PM
I case you've loive in a cave, he pulled out a week ago and 20% is actually more than when he lost at his last election try.

Yes I'm aware he dropped out, but I think you guys vastly overestimate the intelligence of most voters. The decision process is not complicated.

Santorum "served" here in PA. I'll vote for Santorum.

or

Santorum is a nice christian man. I don't want to go to hell so I'll vote for Santorum.

sailingaway
04-24-2012, 07:43 PM
I see 3/4 Delegates from just CD7 :)

I have no clue where you guys are seeing things, but I hope you are right!

hammy
04-24-2012, 07:44 PM
I hate this country the media so much. I hate it. So much.

RonRules
04-24-2012, 07:45 PM
If you listen to Romney's speech, the camera is just focused on him and there is NO background new. That auditorium sounds completely EMPTY!

That's the NEWS!

CaptUSA
04-24-2012, 07:45 PM
No delegates in CD3 were even close unfortunately. Wasn't a good night for us, but I'm glad I can say I voted for liberty!! :DWe had to overcome 3 very well known names... I suppose we can say we did well considering, but I'm still pissed. I feel like I went all out tonight... I'm tired. I was excited leaving today and couldn't wait to see the results. Disappointing in CD3. :(

sailingaway
04-24-2012, 07:45 PM
Why would anyone be wasting their time listening to Romney's speech?

No offense....

sailingaway
04-24-2012, 07:47 PM
We had to overcome 3 very well known names... I suppose we can say we did well considering, but I'm still pissed. I feel like I went all out tonight... I'm tired. I was excited leaving today and couldn't wait to see the results. Disappointing in CD3. :(

Well done and good effort, though! Keeping on despite odds (media etc) is what wins in the end. It may not be in your specific area, but whoever does have a break out is going to need that.

parocks
04-24-2012, 07:48 PM
w/ 551 of 9255 - 6 delegates

2,822 out of 9,255 Districts - 5 delegates

Tiso0770
04-24-2012, 07:48 PM
http://www.electionreturns.state.pa.us/ElectionsInformation.aspx?FunctionID=13&ElectionID=45&OfficeID=1

Refresh for new numbers...

jcarcinogen
04-24-2012, 07:48 PM
Yes I'm aware he dropped out, but I think you guys vastly overestimate the intelligence of most voters. The decision process is not complicated.

Santorum "served" here in PA. I'll vote for Santorum.

or

Santorum is a nice christian man. I don't want to go to hell so I'll vote for Santorum.

That poves they're smarter than we give them credit for? They ARE stupid and anti liberty. Let them lie in their graves they dug.

MarcusI
04-24-2012, 07:49 PM
I see 3/4 Delegates from just CD7 :)

Hmmm... lets see...

right now its 2/4

Seems like we have to wait a bit more

CaptUSA
04-24-2012, 07:50 PM
Also, I spent a lot of time tonight talking to my republican state rep. He pretty much told me that Rohrer was being punished for running against Tom Corbett for Governor. The establishment would have supported him if he played their game.

The GOP party establishment is so strong. This fight is extremely daunting.

parocks
04-24-2012, 07:50 PM
When I analyze this and I see that Santorum flat-lines or goes up, I will SCREAM BLOODY M....

absolutely - shouldn't you be "documenting" the "fraud"?

justatrey
04-24-2012, 07:50 PM
Hmmm... lets see...

right now its 2/4

Seems like we have to wait a bit more

It was 3/4 a minute ago. Now 2/4, very interesting race here in district 7.

RonRules
04-24-2012, 07:54 PM
absolutely - shouldn't you be "documenting" the "fraud"?

I've collected 72 screen shots so far. What have you done?

Do you want me to post them here so you go away?

Birdlady
04-24-2012, 08:00 PM
We had to overcome 3 very well known names... I suppose we can say we did well considering, but I'm still pissed. I feel like I went all out tonight... I'm tired. I was excited leaving today and couldn't wait to see the results. Disappointing in CD3. :(

Yeah it was tough. People who went and didn't know who to vote for knew those names and voted for them. I honestly wasn't expected to get any delegates here because of this very reason.

Regardless, I think what you did was amazing. I can understand your disappointed, but don't get too down!! I'm shocked that Conno. Twp had 51 RP votes. I want to meet all 49 of those people! :)

69360
04-24-2012, 08:02 PM
I've collected 72 screen shots so far. What have you done?

Do you want me to post them here so you go away?

Just accept defeat gracefully, the fraud thing is getting silly.

parocks
04-24-2012, 08:03 PM
2,822 out of 9,255 Districts - 5 delegates

*** 4,953 out of 9,252 Districts (53.53%) Reporting Statewide ***

7 delegates

MelissaCato
04-24-2012, 08:03 PM
This media coverage is sickening. I can't believe I did what I did today n come home to have to listen to this Romney BS. OMG now michelle bachman is on talkin Romney is the man to be obama. I need a drink.

SchleckBros
04-24-2012, 08:04 PM
According to my math,

Paul Delegates as of right now:

CD 1: 1/3
CD 2: 0/3
CD 3: 0/3
CD 4: 0/4
CD 5: 2/3
CD 6: 0/3
CD 7: 2/4
CD 8: 0/4
CD 9: 0/3
CD 10: 1/3
CD 11: 0/3
CD 12: 0/4
CD 13: 0/3
CD 14: 0/3
CD 15: 0/3
CD 16: 0/3
CD 17: 0/3
CD 18: 1/4

Total: 7 Delegates

hammy
04-24-2012, 08:07 PM
I literally feel like someone shot me in the heart. I'm so sick right now. I can't take this. I'm just so pissed. Ron Paul doesn't deserve this. All this bullshit he has to constantly take. I'm ready to grab my musket. Words can't describe my sheer and utter frustration in this moment. It's as if the entire universe has condensed inside my mind to form an infinitesimal unstable white-hot ball of hatred. So depressed right meow...

RPit
04-24-2012, 08:08 PM
According to my math,

Paul Delegates as of right now:

CD 1: 1/3
CD 2: 0/3
CD 3: 0/3
CD 4: 0/4
CD 5: 2/3
CD 6: 0/3
CD 7: 2/4
CD 8: 0/4
CD 9: 0/3
CD 10: 1/3
CD 11: 0/3
CD 12: 0/4
CD 13: 0/3
CD 14: 0/3
CD 15: 0/3
CD 16: 0/3
CD 17: 0/3
CD 18: 1/4

Total: 7 Delegates

Thats what I counted, then refreshed and both the del from CD7 are now out- so 5 dels so far.

RPit
04-24-2012, 08:09 PM
I literally feel like someone shot me in the heart. I'm so sick right now. I can't take this. I'm just so pissed. Ron Paul doesn't deserve this. All this bullshit he has to constantly take. I'm ready to grab my musket. Words can't describe my sheer and utter frustration in this moment. It's as if the entire universe has condensed inside my mind to form an infinitesimal unstable white-hot ball of hatred. So depressed right meow...

Those of us from '07 already went through this.. I was just hoping America has woke up.. Unfortunately America is taken over by immense fear, thus anyone with a foreign policy that Ron has will never win.

RickyJ
04-24-2012, 08:13 PM
Just accept defeat gracefully, the fraud thing is getting silly.

I hope you are being sarcastic. Voter fraud is a reality in this Republican nomination to a very high degree.

69360
04-24-2012, 08:14 PM
I hope you are being sarcastic. Voter fraud is a reality in this Republican nomination to a very high degree.

I'm very serious.

MelissaCato
04-24-2012, 08:16 PM
Yeah, my county did better than we did last time. I feel a personal accomplishment since 2007 anyhow. No delegates though, darn it. Almost got the alternate.

Tyler_Durden
04-24-2012, 08:19 PM
I'm coming in late and haven't read through the thread. My question is with 99% reporting, how the eff did Dr. Paul get only 1/2 the votes in PA than he received in 2008?????

hammy
04-24-2012, 08:19 PM
Voter fraud isn't needed when you have an American populace this ignorant and this blatantly blind to the truth. I don't want to turn this into a religious thread, but, just as a side-note, this is making me so furiously question the sanctity of Christianity and what morals it seems to represent. It's really shaken my faith to its core. Every single Christian I know takes a mindless waltz through their lives and couldn't give 1 F about any muslim or Islam follower. In fact, they'd love nothing more to see every damn man, woman, and child burning to death that is a muslim. Maybe it's just my community, and maybe it's just this or that... but it appears the whole freaking country is thinking like this. I just don't know how much more of this garbage I can take.

brandon
04-24-2012, 08:20 PM
Please get the vote fraud nonsense out of here. It's not the place.

Tyler_Durden
04-24-2012, 08:20 PM
63,583 in 2012

vs.

129,323 in 2008

How????

69360
04-24-2012, 08:22 PM
Yeah, my county did better than we did last time. I feel a personal accomplishment since 2007 anyhow. No delegates though, darn it. Almost got the alternate.

Mine did worse by 10%. We were the best RP county in 08. 1 delegate. What the hell? I blame the influx of NY and NJ people moving into the area in their freshly built condos and mcmansions. I can't wait to get out of here.

RPit
04-24-2012, 08:22 PM
63,583 in 2012

vs.

129,323 in 2008

How????

Our folks are faster to give up... I did phone banking in WA and so many didn't want to go because they said he can't win... Our 'old' supporters didn't really all vote this election cycle, many thought the system can't be broken so no point in voting.

parocks
04-24-2012, 08:23 PM
*** 4,953 out of 9,252 Districts (53.53%) Reporting Statewide ***

7 delegates

*** 6,053 out of 9,252 Districts (65.42%) Reporting Statewide ***

5 delegates

justatrey
04-24-2012, 08:23 PM
63,583 in 2012

vs.

129,323 in 2008

How????

Santorum? He just gets so many of the zombie votes simply because he "served" here. But damn, I have to admit that's strange.

RPit
04-24-2012, 08:23 PM
Everyone should move to Okanogon County in WA ;)

69360
04-24-2012, 08:23 PM
I'm coming in late and haven't read through the thread. My question is with 99% reporting, how the eff did Dr. Paul get only 1/2 the votes in PA than he received in 2008?????

Frothy.

brandon
04-24-2012, 08:23 PM
63,583 in 2012

vs.

129,323 in 2008

How????

Only 76% reporting so far. Last time around there were only 3 candidates on the ballot - and only two that were still running (Huckabee dropped out.) 4 Candidates this time and PA is Santorum's home state. I've also seen wayyy less Ron Paul signs and bumper stickers this go around.

69360
04-24-2012, 08:24 PM
Everyone should move to Okanogon County in WA ;)

I'm moving to ME or possibly NH.

RonRules
04-24-2012, 08:26 PM
Just accept defeat gracefully, the fraud thing is getting silly.

Romney had more votes, by far. That's not the point. I can see vote flipping still going on, tonight, like we've seen in the past 22 elections.

Not one single vote should be fraudulent. Had this fraud not happened back in Iowa, NH, etc, Ron Paul would have had much more momentum, donations, etc.

I am documenting this outrageous assault on our democracy. Please go to the latest vote flipping thread. If you kindly ask questions, the 5-6 volunteers there will answer them:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?369316-The-case-for-the-occurence-of-algorithmic-vote-flipping

You can understand all of this problem without any math at all. I can walk you though it. If you're still unsure, take the data to your local statistics professor or Poli-Sci professor. They will be in shock, I guarantee you.

BTW, we have been invited by the chairman of the Stats dept to demonstrate these results to a full class of students. That chairman would certainly not want to be embarrassed in front of his faculty and students.

Please take this seriously. We can win in 2012 if we expose this fraud.

hammy
04-24-2012, 08:26 PM
I'm moving to ME or possibly NH.

Free state project?

parocks
04-24-2012, 08:26 PM
*** 6,053 out of 9,252 Districts (65.42%) Reporting Statewide ***

5 delegates

*** 7,038 out of 9,252 Districts (76.07%) Reporting Statewide ***

1 Boggia
5 brown
5 martin
10 cippola
18 daugherty

are leading

Tyler_Durden
04-24-2012, 08:29 PM
I don't know. I have a hard time accepting that he lost 60K+ votes this year, given the increase in votes in the other States thus far......

jonruh52
04-24-2012, 08:31 PM
Voter fraud isn't needed when you have an American populace this ignorant and this blatantly blind to the truth. I don't want to turn this into a religious thread, but, just as a side-note, this is making me so furiously question the sanctity of Christianity and what morals it seems to represent. It's really shaken my faith to its core. Every single Christian I know takes a mindless waltz through their lives and couldn't give 1 F about any muslim or Islam follower. In fact, they'd love nothing more to see every damn man, woman, and child burning to death that is a muslim. Maybe it's just my community, and maybe it's just this or that... but it appears the whole freaking country is thinking like this. I just don't know how much more of this garbage I can take.

Some Christians (in my case Catholics that I know) aren't like this, but the evangelical crowd is very brainwashed and they're so easily manipulated by con artists. Look up Ergun Caner. He went around to evangelical churches for nearly a decade claiming he was born in the middle east and lecturing the churches on the evils of Islam and stirring up hatred against muslims. He even pretended to speak arabic quotes in these churches (it was jibberish) and all the evanglicals were too dumb to know it was just jibberish! Turns out the guy was born and raised in Ohio and he was just a hate filled b@st@rd. So he's the extreme, but there are many people like him, and then of course there's FoxNews stirring up hate as well.

69360
04-24-2012, 08:37 PM
Romney had more votes, by far. That's not the point. I can see vote flipping still going on, tonight, like we've seen in the past 22 elections.

Not one single vote should be fraudulent. Had this fraud not happened back in Iowa, NH, etc, Ron Paul would have had much more momentum, donations, etc.

I am documenting this outrageous assault on our democracy. Please go to the latest vote flipping thread. If you kindly ask questions, the 5-6 volunteers there will answer them:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?369316-The-case-for-the-occurence-of-algorithmic-vote-flipping

You can understand all of this problem without any math at all. I can walk you though it. If you're still unsure, take the data to your local statistics professor or Poli-Sci professor. They will be in shock, I guarantee you.

BTW, we have been invited by the chairman of the Stats dept to demonstrate these results to a full class of students. That chairman would certainly not want to be embarrassed in front of his faculty and students.

Please take this seriously. We can win in 2012 if we expose this fraud.

We lost fairly by a large margin. Take off the tin foil hat, put on your big girl panties and accept it, you're making us all look bad with this nonsense.

Free state project?

Not officially, I just want to live somewhere quieter, slower and safer if shtf.


I don't know. I have a hard time accepting that he lost 60K+ votes this year, given the increase in votes in the other States thus far......

I can, the state is going to hell and there is an exodus of people like us. I'm joining it soon.

parocks
04-24-2012, 08:38 PM
*** 7,038 out of 9,252 Districts (76.07%) Reporting Statewide ***

1 Boggia
5 brown
5 martin
10 cippola
18 daugherty

are leading

*** 7,071 out of 9,252 Districts (76.43%) Reporting Statewide ***

1 Boggia
5 brown
5 martin
10 cippola
18 daugherty

are leading

brandon
04-24-2012, 08:41 PM
The amount of effort and money that went into petitioning to get only 5 delegates is pretty sad. We still had to try though. I wish PA would drop their retarded primary system and adopt a caucus process.

I haven't checked but I assume we are getting a few more alternates than delegates.

MelissaCato
04-24-2012, 08:42 PM
RonRules .. FYI. My mom is the smartest person I know. My mom is in charge of the poles in the small town she lives in. I sent her links to all that you wrote about this alleged election fraud, and she suspects that it can happen as described, but not in small towns because everybody knows everybody. Just wanted you to know that.

sailingaway
04-24-2012, 08:49 PM
The amount of effort and money that went into petitioning to get only 5 delegates is pretty sad. We still had to try though. I wish PA would drop their retarded primary system and adopt a caucus process.

I haven't checked but I assume we are getting a few more alternates than delegates.

I can see why, being close to it, you are disappointed. To be honest, I'm THRILLED if Ron gets 5 delegates (although I'd love more.) Romney is pretending he is the presumptive nominee and still losing delegates. These were much more considered his states, which is why he set up his coronation speech for tonight, in advance. My only real hope was that Ron's delegate wins in MN and Iowa and Colorado might give him some momentum, but the media never reported them as wins, of course, not mainstream media GOP primary voters would see.

Benton said Texas and California, and I was assuming it was in good part because they would be AFTER some of Ron's wins were clearly known, with state conventions under our belts. We need momentum for primary wins.

You guys did a terrific job in a complete media vacuum.

parocks
04-24-2012, 08:54 PM
*** 7,071 out of 9,252 Districts (76.43%) Reporting Statewide ***

1 Boggia
5 brown
5 martin
10 cippola
18 daugherty

are leading

*** 7,705 out of 9,252 Districts (83.28%) Reporting Statewide ***

1 Boggia
5 brown
5 martin
18 daugherty

parocks
04-24-2012, 09:01 PM
*** 7,705 out of 9,252 Districts (83.28%) Reporting Statewide ***

1 Boggia
5 brown
5 martin
18 daugherty

*** 7,705 out of 9,252 Districts (83.28%) Reporting Statewide ***

1 Boggia
5 brown
5 martin
18 daugherty

RonRules
04-24-2012, 09:02 PM
RonRules .. FYI. My mom is the smartest person I know. My mom is in charge of the poles in the small town she lives in. I sent her links to all that you wrote about this alleged election fraud, and she suspects that it can happen as described, but not in small towns because everybody knows everybody. Just wanted you to know that.

Beautiful to hear. Thank you so much, because it's hard to crunch numbers for 6-7 weeks straight.

We do notice that the flipping does not occur in small precincts. With less than 250 votes in a precinct, there is no flipping.

Have your mom contact me for more explanation. Send PM. I'll talk with anybody that's opened enough to listen.

parocks
04-24-2012, 09:04 PM
*** 7,705 out of 9,252 Districts (83.28%) Reporting Statewide ***

1 Boggia
5 brown
5 martin
18 daugherty

*** 8,204 out of 9,253 Districts (88.66%) Reporting Statewide ***

1 Boggia
5 brown
5 martin
18 daugherty

parocks
04-24-2012, 09:06 PM
*** 8,204 out of 9,253 Districts (88.66%) Reporting Statewide ***

1 Boggia
5 brown
5 martin
18 daugherty

*** 8,070 out of 9,253 Districts (87.21%) Reporting Statewide ***

They took away 134 precincts in PA. Fraud.

But it helped in 17

*** 8,070 out of 9,253 Districts (87.21%) Reporting Statewide ***

1 Boggia
5 brown
5 martin
17 antonello
18 daugherty

HigherVision
04-24-2012, 09:08 PM
You gotta change your name man^ ;P

sailingaway
04-24-2012, 09:20 PM
*** 8,070 out of 9,253 Districts (87.21%) Reporting Statewide ***

They took away 134 precincts in PA. Fraud.

But it helped in 17

*** 8,070 out of 9,253 Districts (87.21%) Reporting Statewide ***

1 Boggia
5 brown
5 martin
17 antonello
18 daugherty

In Iowa there were two counties Ron had won, with 100% of the vote in, but by a close count and they flipped to Romney. Right about midnight. I always wonder when precincts change after they are counted.

parocks
04-24-2012, 09:21 PM
*** 8,070 out of 9,253 Districts (87.21%) Reporting Statewide ***

1 Boggia
5 brown
5 martin
17 antonello
18 daugherty


*** 8,196 out of 9,253 Districts (88.58%) Reporting Statewide ***


1 Boggia
5 brown
5 martin
17 antonello
18 daugherty

HigherVision
04-24-2012, 09:23 PM
Voter fraud isn't needed when you have an American populace this ignorant and this blatantly blind to the truth. I don't want to turn this into a religious thread, but, just as a side-note, this is making me so furiously question the sanctity of Christianity and what morals it seems to represent. It's really shaken my faith to its core. Every single Christian I know takes a mindless waltz through their lives and couldn't give 1 F about any muslim or Islam follower. In fact, they'd love nothing more to see every damn man, woman, and child burning to death that is a muslim. Maybe it's just my community, and maybe it's just this or that... but it appears the whole freaking country is thinking like this. I just don't know how much more of this garbage I can take.

People are religious mainly because they feel that it benefits their self-interest. They want a guarantee that they're going to heaven after they die and that someone is watching them over, cheering for them and blessing them so that they do well in life. I believe that for most people it's viewed like a benefits package, and that's the main reason they subscribe to it.

parocks
04-24-2012, 09:25 PM
You gotta change your name man^ ;P

well, if now living in maine doesn't cause me to do that ...

PauliticsPolitics
04-24-2012, 09:29 PM
alternate delegates
*** 8,196 out of 9,253 Districts (88.58%) Reporting Statewide ***
5 Mark R. Brady Alternate Delegate
9 Mark Brown Alternate Delegate
10 Nancy E Price Alternate Delegate
11 Holly Anderson Alternate Delegate
13 John Hennelly Alternate Delegate
14 Andy Maul Alternate Delegate
14 James Sheets Alternate Delegate
15 Chris Donatelli Alternate Delegate
16 Ben Bradley Alternate Delegate

Maybe - - -
??? 14 Tony Destro Alternate Delegate (WRITE IN / UNKOWN RESULT) ???

MarcusI
04-24-2012, 09:29 PM
Potter County, PA may be the only county today in all 5 states not won by Romney. He leads it only 41 to 38. Guess who is second with 79% reporting...:rolleyes:

parocks
04-24-2012, 09:35 PM
*** 8,196 out of 9,253 Districts (88.58%) Reporting Statewide ***


1 Boggia
5 brown
5 martin
17 antonello
18 daugherty

*** 8,720 out of 9,255 Districts (94.22%) Reporting Statewide ***

1 Boggia
5 brown
5 martin
17 antonello
18 daugherty

drummergirl
04-24-2012, 09:38 PM
I'm very serious.

May your chains rest lightly upon you.

parocks
04-24-2012, 09:39 PM
*** 8,720 out of 9,255 Districts (94.22%) Reporting Statewide ***

1 Boggia
5 brown
5 martin
17 antonello
18 daugherty

*** 8,966 out of 9,255 Districts (96.88%) Reporting Statewide ***

1 Boggia
5 brown
5 martin
17 antonello
18 daugherty

MarcusI
04-24-2012, 09:49 PM
I don't know. I have a hard time accepting that he lost 60K+ votes this year, given the increase in votes in the other States thus far......

Right now its "only" 25K

RDM
04-24-2012, 09:49 PM
Cd-18 Daugherty. I guess my 12 hours manning a polling station handing out delegate cards paid off.:rolleyes:

Scott_in_PA
04-24-2012, 09:51 PM
Cd-18 Daugherty. I guess my 12 hours manning a polling station handing out delegate cards paid off.:rolleyes:

It's gotta be the name. WTF happened to me :confused:

HigherVision
04-24-2012, 09:51 PM
Yeah all the delegates in my district lost & I have sunburn. But at least we tried

Scott_in_PA
04-24-2012, 09:54 PM
RDM we did a lot better in our county. Thanks for your help.

It was a long day.

PauliticsPolitics
04-24-2012, 09:55 PM
alternate delegates
*** 8,196 out of 9,253 Districts (88.58%) Reporting Statewide ***
5 Mark R. Brady Alternate Delegate
9 Mark Brown Alternate Delegate
10 Nancy E Price Alternate Delegate
11 Holly Anderson Alternate Delegate
13 John Hennelly Alternate Delegate
14 Andy Maul Alternate Delegate
14 James Sheets Alternate Delegate
15 Chris Donatelli Alternate Delegate
16 Ben Bradley Alternate Delegate

Maybe - - -
??? 14 Tony Destro Alternate Delegate (WRITE IN / UNKOWN RESULT) ???

ALTERNATE DELEGATES
*** 9,000 out of 9,257 Districts (97.22%) Reporting Statewide ***
4 Chad Nagle Alternate Delegate
4 Seth M. Shoemaker Alternate Delegate
5 Mark R. Brady Alternate Delegate
10 Nancy E Price Alternate Delegate
11 Holly Anderson Alternate Delegate
14 Andy Maul Alternate Delegate
14 James Sheets Alternate Delegate
15 Chris Donatelli Alternate Delegate
16 Ben Bradley Alternate Delegate


Maybe - - -
??? 14 Tony Destro Alternate Delegate (WRITE IN / UNKOWN RESULT) ???

RDM
04-24-2012, 09:56 PM
It's gotta be the name. WTF happened to me :confused:

You kicked butt at the polling station I worked. Ist in Reg. Delegate and 1st by a mile as a alt.

Scott_in_PA
04-24-2012, 10:07 PM
You kicked butt at the polling station I worked. Ist in Reg. Delegate and 1st by a mile as a alt.

I guess I'll use that as a stepping stone for my council run next year. :D

Again I must thank you for a day spent in the cause of Liberty.

RDM
04-24-2012, 10:10 PM
I guess I'll use that as a stepping stone for my council run next year. :D

Again I must thank you for a day spent in the cause of Liberty.

You're welcome. If it's any consolation. You didn't come in last for CD-18.:)

parocks
04-24-2012, 10:10 PM
Mine did worse by 10%. We were the best RP county in 08. 1 delegate. What the hell? I blame the influx of NY and NJ people moving into the area in their freshly built condos and mcmansions. I can't wait to get out of here.

More choices this year maybe. Santorum on the ballot this year, not in 08, maybe.

I'm a little disappointed that there didn't seem to be any apparent strategy involving delegates. How many people worked today and got nothing, zip, zero, nada?

I've been asking for any single relevant piece of information about our delegates.

Got nothing. None. And if you move forward with no research, no information, nothing, you get about 5 out of around 70 delegates. 5 is better than none. So, good job and all.

But, whatever strategy we had to win delegates seemed completely random.

Perhaps it wasn't. Perhaps we won the delegates we won because we put in special effort to help the specific candidates who won. But there was a lot of "I need help too".

Also consider all of the effort that went into promoting the Ron Paul brand in PA. Completely pointless. We should be smart enough to realize that it's all about delegates, and unless the Ron Paul name is right next to that delegates name, liking Ron Paul isn't going to translate into the votes for the right delegates.

That's just PA though. Think of all the time, all the effort, people put into waving signs in the summer of 11. In PA, it comes down to 18 separate elections where 3 or 4 delegates can win in each of those elections.

That's what it is in PA. And we should know this at the beginning of the process.

It seems like much of the grassroots Ron Paul campaigning, the specifics, are simply what people like to do. They like to wave signs, and they like to march. And there's no evidence that this is helpful, and there is evidence that it can be harmful.

Handing out cards at the polls is always good, tried and true stuff, but if everything else was scrapped, and 100% was about getting specific people elected as delegates, we could've done better than whatever we end up with.

We apparently got 2 delegates in RI, according to CNN. That's good. And some here. That's good. The Northeast is Romney territory. And there's NJ left, but that's it for the Northeast. We should be able to get some delegates moving forward.

PauliticsPolitics
04-24-2012, 10:14 PM
re: ^
We should actually get 4 delegates out of Rhode Island.

MarcusI
04-24-2012, 10:14 PM
We apparently got 2 delegates in RI, according to CNN. That's good.

3. Thats better. ;)

mike_c
04-24-2012, 10:17 PM
More choices this year maybe. Santorum on the ballot this year, not in 08, maybe.

I'm a little disappointed that there didn't seem to be any apparent strategy involving delegates. How many people worked today and got nothing, zip, zero, nada?

I've been asking for any single relevant piece of information about our delegates.

Got nothing. None. And if you move forward with no research, no information, nothing, you get about 5 out of around 70 delegates. 5 is better than none. So, good job and all.

But, whatever strategy we had to win delegates seemed completely random.

Perhaps it wasn't. Perhaps we won the delegates we won because we put in special effort to help the specific candidates who won. But there was a lot of "I need help too".

Also consider all of the effort that went into promoting the Ron Paul brand in PA. Completely pointless. We should be smart enough to realize that it's all about delegates, and unless the Ron Paul name is right next to that delegates name, liking Ron Paul isn't going to translate into the votes for the right delegates.

That's just PA though. Think of all the time, all the effort, people put into waving signs in the summer of 11. In PA, it comes down to 18 separate elections where 3 or 4 delegates can win in each of those elections.

That's what it is in PA. And we should know this at the beginning of the process.

It seems like much of the grassroots Ron Paul campaigning, the specifics, are simply what people like to do. They like to wave signs, and they like to march. And there's no evidence that this is helpful, and there is evidence that it can be harmful.

Handing out cards at the polls is always good, tried and true stuff, but if everything else was scrapped, and 100% was about getting specific people elected as delegates, we could've done better than whatever we end up with.

We apparently got 2 delegates in RI, according to CNN. That's good. And some here. That's good. The Northeast is Romney territory. And there's NJ left, but that's it for the Northeast. We should be able to get some delegates moving forward.

We need to organize by town and borough, like the establishment does. If we start having our own committee meetings in every town (no matter how small the meeting is), then we can win. Right now everyone seems stretched too thin, we're focusing on whole congressional districts at a time rather than one precinct at a time. We should have these meetings and vote for who we want to run for specific offices or for delegate in an organized way.

edit: this will also increase our chances of having people at every poll handing out our ballot

parocks
04-24-2012, 10:17 PM
*** 8,966 out of 9,255 Districts (96.88%) Reporting Statewide ***

1 Boggia
5 brown
5 martin
17 antonello
18 daugherty


*** 9,166 out of 9,260 Districts (98.98%) Reporting Statewide ***

1 Boggia
5 brown
5 martin
17 antonello
18 daugherty

parocks
04-24-2012, 10:19 PM
re: ^
We should actually get 4 delegates out of Rhode Island.

Haven't been watching it close, just PA. I guess those who said "why Rhode Island" were wrong. That was smart and I didn't have any clear idea about that anyway.

RDM
04-24-2012, 10:20 PM
PaRocks. The way I see it, Ron Paul grassroots is overhyped. You can't have 20% doing the real work while 80% are Rah Rah supporters banging on the keyboard.

MarcusI
04-24-2012, 10:20 PM
FHQ says 3 or 4 delegates for Gingrich in PA

MarcusI
04-24-2012, 10:22 PM
Gingrich delegate list:
http://newtgingrich360.com/forum/topics/pennsylvania-newt-delegates-who-to-vote-for?xg_source=activity.

VeronicaDwight
04-24-2012, 10:25 PM
Ron Paul only got in last place in ONE of FIVE states. That's really good progress. He used to be last in most states. This is really good progress.

Also... I think Newt will be dropping out soon... he's in so much debt and isn't even doing well!

This makes me so so happy!!!

PauliticsPolitics
04-24-2012, 10:26 PM
Gingrich delegate list:
http://newtgingrich360.com/forum/topics/pennsylvania-newt-delegates-who-to-vote-for?xg_source=activity.

That's good to know.

PolicyReader
04-24-2012, 10:31 PM
We need to organize by town and borough, like the establishment does. If we start having our own committee meetings in every town (no matter how small the meeting is), then we can win. Right now everyone seems stretched too thin, we're focusing on whole congressional districts at a time rather than one precinct at a time. We should have these meetings and vote for who we want to run for specific offices or for delegate in an organized way.

edit: this will also increase our chances of having people at every poll handing out our ballot
This would be a good move, and it would be a good move to start now for areas that haven't voted yet for areas that haven't done so yet.
I'm not super thrilled by the tally today, and on balance it doesn't seem to have helped us a whole lot, but I'm also not surprised on balance as parocks has pointed out the Northeast is Romney territory. We are getting down to the wire tho, and Texas needs to be big. Phone from home, for those out of state and being organized for those within the state. We need to buck electoral trends and turn out Paul supporters at a very high rate. On balance (percent wise) we tend to do better than the norm at that already, but we're a minority and there's no room for mincing words our prior GOTV levels need to be increased if we're going to succeed moving forward. PA is a lesson, and it's one every state should learn.

Tobias2dope
04-24-2012, 10:34 PM
So I have a question, I heard that PA is UNBOUND delegates, does that mean you could theoretically FLIP Gingrich-Santorum-Romney people to vote for PAUL, regardless of what they say? I'm curious, because what if Us Paulbots just UPPED are game and converted all those people?

PauliticsPolitics
04-24-2012, 10:35 PM
So I have a question, I heard that PA is UNBOUND delegates, does that mean you could theoretically FLIP Gingrich-Santorum-Romney people to vote for PAUL, regardless of what they say? I'm curious, because what if Us Paulbots just UPPED are game and converted all those people?
Yes, that is true.

MarcusI
04-24-2012, 10:35 PM
So I have a question, I heard that PA is UNBOUND delegates, does that mean you could theoretically FLIP Gingrich-Santorum-Romney people to vote for PAUL, regardless of what they say?

Yes.

sailingaway
04-24-2012, 10:37 PM
I just read a story in the Nation but it went behind a sign up wall so I didn't post it. It was emphasizing how many voters REJECTED Romney, and it pointed out Romney's biggest push was in Pennsylvania, bringing in Rubio etc....serving food and so forth...

Tobias2dope
04-24-2012, 10:37 PM
As a matter of fact, there should be a nationwide campaign to FLIP ALL UNBOUND and UNDECLARED delegates to stop Romney at all costs.

Titus
04-24-2012, 10:37 PM
Well it's worth a shot for the PA people to try to flip in their spare time, if they have difficulties phoning from home like me. Whatever happens, just remember to be civil and not to hound.

Also, what do y'all think about buying Gingrich's debt for endorsement for his delegates (supposing that's not an election law violation)?

Ivash
04-24-2012, 10:40 PM
People are religious mainly because they feel that it benefits their self-interest. They want a guarantee that they're going to heaven after they die and that someone is watching them over, cheering for them and blessing them so that they do well in life. I believe that for most people it's viewed like a benefits package, and that's the main reason they subscribe to it.

Nah, people are mainly religious because their parents were and their culture is. Most people who ascribe to any particular religious belief don't understand their own religion- this has been shown by studies indicating that atheists and Jews know more about Christianity than the self-described Christians do.

This isn't a rap against Christianity- several semi-famous Soviet studies showed that atheist converts to Christianity tended to have higher IQs than those who did not convert (and I'd assume it is the opposite in America- in other words those who look outside their faith tend to be more intelligence than the average of the people who don't since the 'average' is holding down the intelligence of those who look outside their faith and return to it. Does that make sense? I hope it does.) It is a rap against people who 'believe' in something they never bother to study.

parocks
04-24-2012, 10:42 PM
PaRocks. The way I see it, Ron Paul grassroots is overhyped. You can't have 20% doing the real work while 80% are Rah Rah supporters banging on the keyboard.

It's not worker or non worker. There are habits, theories, etc, that are just destructive. I dunno. It became pretty clear around super tuesday, for me at least, that we weren't really going to do all that well on election days where it's fairly quick and easy to vote. And today was clearly going to be a Romney day.

Looking at my predictions, I was able to predict where Romney was going to do well.

Here's PA

Montgomery Mitt Romney 31,971 67%
Bucks Mitt Romney 27,266 67%
Delaware Mitt Romney 27,890 65%
Chester Mitt Romney 24,230 65%
Philadelphia Mitt Romney 12,102 64%

I singled out Montgomery, and that was Romneys biggest win.

Tobias2dope
04-24-2012, 10:46 PM
It is a rap against people who 'believe' in something they never bother to study.

I see what you mean. As a Christian I strive to enlighten a lot of "Christian-lite" "Churchianity" types, there are quite a few people who go to church as a way of life but have never surrendered to Christ. A lot of people get hung up on works based or ritualistic religiosity, while never having a change of heart. It's about having a relationship with Christ, not Fire-Insurance. lol

archangel689
04-24-2012, 10:51 PM
Pretty much everywhere you turn there was a fuck-up. We had all the establishment candidates knocked off the ballot and harrisburg couldn't get the papers in on time. Then we had another screwup where we bought their bluff and didn't take them to court on their number one guy who didn't have enough signatures on the ballot. The signatures collections had lots of a fraud going on but it's irrelevant now. Some of the blatant bullshit that they got away with was simply because people are more interested in waving signs than actually helping out with signature challenges.

Then we were told that the campaign was going to announce the delegates during the rally, and they didn't. We were told the delegates were going to be announced. We had 3400 people in that room and instead of having an army at the polls we had 40 people...

A lot of this is organizational fuckups. The campaign is not communicating with the grass roots. We had alot of this stuff handled and dropped the ball, due to inexperience. The organization just isnt there yet.


And as far as converting the unbound delegates, GOOD LUCK. The establishment idiots in Philly HATE Paul and it's been a WAR zone over there. The establishment here won't vote for paul because they play by the establishment rules. "You stay in line or we throw you out."

This may sound gloomy, but these political hacks are getting old. If we keep presenting liberty candidates for president, this old dinosaur will fall.

Scott_in_PA
04-24-2012, 10:56 PM
*** I like to talk ***

What did you do today for PA?

Listen I'm not trying to upset you but you tend to be a "this or that could have, should have, been done kinda guy/gal"

I sent 2 weeks on the phone lining up poll workers and called about 200+ people. Some didn't give a number. They want to help sure but try and get them to reply to an email or return a phone call. Their are a lot of precincts and I could only get about 30 people out today.

I need 300 + people to all but gurentee a win here in our district, and only had a list of 400+.

One older lady had to go home because it was cold.
14 hours on your feet and a cold day are not things people jump at the opportunity to participate in.

We had 30 x 14 = 420 hours just today. It was cold, people can be rude, and we are all tired.

I need to get a few hours sleep now and work tomorrow.

How about you?

Please be more respectful of our efforts unless you can show me a better way.

Oh and we did get one of ours to Tampa. That is 25% of our district. Better than most state numbers so far.

Tobias2dope
04-24-2012, 11:06 PM
What did you do today for PA?

Listen I'm not trying to upset you but you tend to be a "this or that could have, should have, been done kinda guy/gal"

I sent 2 weeks on the phone lining up poll workers and called about 200+ people. Some didn't give a number. They want to help sure but try and get them to reply to an email or return a phone call. Their are a lot of precincts and I could only get about 30 people out today.

I need 300 + people to all but gurentee a win here in our district, and only had a list of 400+.

One older lady had to go home because it was cold.
14 hours on your feet and a cold day are not things people jump at the opportunity to participate in.

We had 30 x 14 = 420 hours just today. It was cold, people can be rude, and we are all tired.

I need to get a few hours sleep now and work tomorrow.

How about you?

Please be more respectful of our efforts unless you can show me a better way.

Oh and we did get one of ours to Tampa. That is 25% of our district. Better than most state numbers so far.

I'm with you man, I think part of the problem is, the curse of being an awake Ron Paul supporter is that you're most likely also a hard working family man with tons of responsibility. Maybe that's just in my head, idk.

parocks
04-24-2012, 11:13 PM
PA
Montgomery Mitt Romney 31,971 67%
Bucks Mitt Romney 27,266 67%
Delaware Mitt Romney 27,890 65%
Chester Mitt Romney 24,230 65%
Philadelphia Mitt Romney 12,102 64%

Rhode Island
Newport Mitt Romney 277 75%

Conn
Greenwich Mitt Romney 1,437 81%
Westport Mitt Romney 640 82%
Weston Mitt Romney 250 84%
New Canaan Mitt Romney 683 82%
Darien Mitt Romney 631 84%

NY
Westchester Mitt Romney 6,336 76%
Suffolk Mitt Romney 12,930 73%
Staten Island Mitt Romney 2,583 74%
Nassau Mitt Romney 5,345 76%
Rockland Mitt Romney 2,258 78%
Manhattan Mitt Romney 3,877 75%

DE
New Castle Mitt Romney 8,039 60%

Gravik
04-24-2012, 11:14 PM
Can't believe Frothy still beat Paul....

parocks
04-24-2012, 11:20 PM
*** 9,166 out of 9,260 Districts (98.98%) Reporting Statewide ***

1 Boggia
5 brown
5 martin
17 antonello
18 daugherty


*** 9,184 out of 9,260 Districts (99.18%) Reporting Statewide ***

1 Boggia
5 brown
5 martin
17 antonello
18 daugherty

Tobias2dope
04-24-2012, 11:21 PM
Can't believe Frothy still beat Paul....

Well from where I am,
1) I think Santorum's drop out was kinda on the Down low, right before and after his drop out, I was hearing people tell me "paul is dropping out" So there was some confusion being spewed by the media

2) Because santorum supporters are actually perry,bachman,cain,gingrich,santorum supporters(PBCGSS for short), they rested on the flavor of the week, and since they got NO NEW ORDERS or plans from the media they just voted for santorum anyway. Because they defaulted to the last orders they heard. The Key here is brainwashing.

3) With impressive crowds in PA, if one was looking at crowds, enthusiasm and grassroots only, RP would have won by a landslide. Cementing my view, which is MASS MEDIA BRAINWASHING, combined with RON PAUL BLACKOUT. Works like a charm, AKA a HEX, AKA a Curse, AKA DEVIL MAGIC!!!!

parocks
04-24-2012, 11:23 PM
Can't believe Frothy still beat Paul....

Frothy? On another thread, someone was criticized for referring to a poll worker as a Section 8 type or something like that. The thinking was that calling someone a Section 8 type might alienate potential voters.

Calling Santorum Frothy might actually alienate Santorum voters. And there are a lot of them, and Santorum is out of the race, and if there's one person who you don't want to insult here on Ron Paul Forums, it's Santorum.

Keith and stuff
04-24-2012, 11:27 PM
Can't believe Frothy still beat Paul....

Didn't Paul lose or at least almost lose to a dropped out Romney in some places in 2008? It really isn't rare at all. Gingrich was last in 2 of the 5 counties in RI (even lost to Santorum.) Gingrich took last (even losing to Santorum in plenty of counties in CT) and Santorum had the 2nd most amount of votes in plenty of counties in CT. Those are the only 2 states voting today that I bothered to look at. Perhaps it is true in parts of NY. Certainly, it's true in parts of PA.

Some people really like Santorum (at least compared to Romney, Paul and Gingrich) or really dislike Romney, Paul and Gingrich (at least compared to Santorum.)

parocks
04-24-2012, 11:32 PM
What did I do today for PA?

Yeah, well I'm in Maine now. But, still, look at the top stickied post here on grassroots. My Thread. I posted the list of delegates. And suggested to everyone here that it might be a good idea to get that list out there. I put together tweets, for people to retweet, really simple. Listing the names of the delegates in the tweet, hopefully to get a little bit of name recognition. I spent money on facebook ads. One targeted Ron Paul supporters, with "get the Ron Paul Delegate list here" and the other was targeting a CD, with the names of our delegates in that CD.

So, yeah, even in Maine, I spent time and money on PA.

There's a natural tendency to want to avoid upsetting people when they're working, but now that the results are in, that's a good time to discuss this.

Yes, some people are hustling on the ground in the states on election day. And sometimes it works out. Was 5/70 a good result overall? Maybe. I really can't tell you. Certainly with Santorum being from PA, you'd expect that he'd take some votes, and Romney of course, being the Northeast, being ahead, etc, was likely to do well. Perhaps it could be said that we were doing great all things considered.




What did you do today for PA?

Listen I'm not trying to upset you but you tend to be a "this or that could have, should have, been done kinda guy/gal"

I sent 2 weeks on the phone lining up poll workers and called about 200+ people. Some didn't give a number. They want to help sure but try and get them to reply to an email or return a phone call. Their are a lot of precincts and I could only get about 30 people out today.

I need 300 + people to all but gurentee a win here in our district, and only had a list of 400+.

One older lady had to go home because it was cold.
14 hours on your feet and a cold day are not things people jump at the opportunity to participate in.

We had 30 x 14 = 420 hours just today. It was cold, people can be rude, and we are all tired.

I need to get a few hours sleep now and work tomorrow.

How about you?

Please be more respectful of our efforts unless you can show me a better way.

Oh and we did get one of ours to Tampa. That is 25% of our district. Better than most state numbers so far.

parocks
04-24-2012, 11:51 PM
Didn't Paul lose or at least almost lose to a dropped out Romney in some places in 2008? It really isn't rare at all. Gingrich was last in 2 of the 5 counties in RI (even lost to Santorum.) Gingrich took last (even losing to Santorum in plenty of counties in CT) and Santorum had the 2nd most amount of votes in plenty of counties in CT. Those are the only 2 states voting today that I bothered to look at. Perhaps it is true in parts of NY. Certainly, it's true in parts of PA.

Some people really like Santorum (at least compared to Romney, Paul and Gingrich) or really dislike Romney, Paul and Gingrich (at least compared to Santorum.)

A dropped out Huckabee did well in parts of PA in 2008, beating Paul in some areas.

Mckarnin
04-24-2012, 11:54 PM
Well it's worth a shot for the PA people to try to flip in their spare time, if they have difficulties phoning from home like me. Whatever happens, just remember to be civil and not to hound.

Also, what do y'all think about buying Gingrich's debt for endorsement for his delegates (supposing that's not an election law violation)?

No way to buying delegates. Hope you are joking. :)

Birdlady
04-25-2012, 12:06 AM
Sorry guys, but I think some of you were basing your expectations on wishful thinking and not on the realities of the situation. Many weeks ago I said that Santorum had massive support here and no one wanted to even entertain the idea because RPF deemed him as irrelevant. We count our chickens before the eggs hatch. It's one of our biggest weaknesses in this movement.

Those of you who worked hard. I thank you for your sacrifices and commend you. Getting our country back is going to be a difficult battle. I am glad with what we have accomplished over the past 4-8 years!

In CD3, the delegates we were up against had major name recognition. One was a previous House rep for 14 years. The other one is a currently sitting House rep for 13 years. It's pretty hard to overcome that.

Don't give up. Keep your chins up!

parocks
04-25-2012, 12:11 AM
Pretty much everywhere you turn there was a fuck-up. We had all the establishment candidates knocked off the ballot and harrisburg couldn't get the papers in on time. Then we had another screwup where we bought their bluff and didn't take them to court on their number one guy who didn't have enough signatures on the ballot. The signatures collections had lots of a fraud going on but it's irrelevant now. Some of the blatant bullshit that they got away with was simply because people are more interested in waving signs than actually helping out with signature challenges.

Then we were told that the campaign was going to announce the delegates during the rally, and they didn't. We were told the delegates were going to be announced. We had 3400 people in that room and instead of having an army at the polls we had 40 people...

A lot of this is organizational fuckups. The campaign is not communicating with the grass roots. We had alot of this stuff handled and dropped the ball, due to inexperience. The organization just isnt there yet.


And as far as converting the unbound delegates, GOOD LUCK. The establishment idiots in Philly HATE Paul and it's been a WAR zone over there. The establishment here won't vote for paul because they play by the establishment rules. "You stay in line or we throw you out."

This may sound gloomy, but these political hacks are getting old. If we keep presenting liberty candidates for president, this old dinosaur will fall.

My concern was mostly that I couldn't personally see any strategy here on RPF. We should know long beforehand what delegates we have a chance of winning with, and put our efforts into winning what we can.

I'm not saying 5 is bad. But weeks ago I mentioned it would be useful to focus on selected delegate races that we can win.

And I asked a simple question - what delegates can win? And I got silence. Nothing. Well, the "no focus on anything" strategy leads to a string of losses.

2 days ago I asked for an explanation of why I should focus my facebook ads somewhere. Any little piece of relevant information. I asked here. And I got nothing. Not even delegates saying to focus on them.

How limited is the political insight here? Can someone say "oh, btw, a sitting congressman is running for delegate in CD xx, and other candidates are also really famous" when that's the case.

I see very very little smart political analysis here at all. What you have to say is certainly worthwhile information.

There are a decent number of people here who were running for delegate, was there even a thread where all the delegates checked in? I mean, I dunno. Maybe it's my mistake to think that rpf is going to have this good stuff, good info. On the facebook group I'm part of, I don't see much there either.

liberalnurse
04-25-2012, 01:21 AM
CIPOLLA, ANTHONY (REP)
18,546 15.0%
HARRIS, MARK J. (REP)
22,175 18.0%
SIDES, CAROL D. (REP)
20,600 16.7%
PRICE, JAMES T. (REP)
18,284 14.8%
SAYLOR, PAT (REP)
18,771 15.2%
BROBSON, ROBERT C. (REP)
8,879 7.2%
WILSON, AARON (REP)
16,026 13.0%

Wow.. CD 10 Our delegates: Cipolla, Price and Wilson. We gave it a hell of an effort.:( We are the 2nd largest district in PA. This was entirely a grassroots effort. And I mean an effort. We worked our asses off. Kudos CD 10..

RickyJ
04-25-2012, 01:27 AM
No way to buying delegates. Hope you are joking. :)

Oh please, almost everyone can be bought for the right price, how do you think the elite got the power they have now, they bought it!

J_White
04-25-2012, 01:41 AM
Well, not really relevant, but while we are talking about buying influence - http://www.salon.com/2012/01/07/35_romney_endorsers_received_contributions_first/

parocks
04-25-2012, 01:58 AM
This would be a good move, and it would be a good move to start now for areas that haven't voted yet for areas that haven't done so yet.
I'm not super thrilled by the tally today, and on balance it doesn't seem to have helped us a whole lot, but I'm also not surprised on balance as parocks has pointed out the Northeast is Romney territory. We are getting down to the wire tho, and Texas needs to be big. Phone from home, for those out of state and being organized for those within the state. We need to buck electoral trends and turn out Paul supporters at a very high rate. On balance (percent wise) we tend to do better than the norm at that already, but we're a minority and there's no room for mincing words our prior GOTV levels need to be increased if we're going to succeed moving forward. PA is a lesson, and it's one every state should learn.

Well, yeah, on the other hand, how about just continuing to lose badly? I mean, what exactly to we hope to accomplish in these various races? I dunno. Most of the time I type things I really should be adding "in January it would've been a good idea if". So, you know, hey, plan to make trouble in Tampa. Wave signs. Drive long distances, wasting gas money just to go see Ron Paul (again), because you have no idea what he's going to say. The trajectory is down. And at some point, you realize that it's a pointless waste of time. That doesn't stop you from working, but it might cut down the number of hours you work. We needed a better performance before.

But yes, your suggestions are good. Random groups of people who rarely communicate with each other who like to stand around waving signs is kinda pointless, and it kinda makes normal people think Ron Paul supporters are crazy. But that's our #1 thing.

Sure, stop doing almost everything we have been doing for 4-5 years. Agreed. Who do I send that email to, to get everyone to stop doing everything they have been doing, and start doing other things? I suspect that will be impossible. And I've been typing and typing since last summer about good things to do. And mostly it's the same way of thinking. We're "persuaders", even though that's the campaigns job. We're not "vote getters", even though that's what the campaign needs us to do (but we do of course help the campaign do that).

We won in Minnesota, we can win delegates in other places, other states we've identified. Good states are coming up. I'm not paying close attention to the math with Romney and 1144 ... well, you know, black swan.

parocks
04-25-2012, 02:02 AM
So I have a question, I heard that PA is UNBOUND delegates, does that mean you could theoretically FLIP Gingrich-Santorum-Romney people to vote for PAUL, regardless of what they say? I'm curious, because what if Us Paulbots just UPPED are game and converted all those people?

That's kinda the idea in Tampa. If Romney is prevented from getting 1144 before Tampa, and doesn't get the 1144 in Tampa, eventually all the delegates become unbound, and we can persuade delegates to vote for Ron Paul.

parocks
04-25-2012, 02:08 AM
As a matter of fact, there should be a nationwide campaign to FLIP ALL UNBOUND and UNDECLARED delegates to stop Romney at all costs.

Flip them to what exactly? As long as they don't vote for Romney.

I have heard that delegates can abstain from voting. Even delegates bound to Romney. If that's true, we should get that out there.

"What happens if Romney is so damaged, should his delegates abstain, can his delegates abstain?" We would benefit if the tv pundits said that a lot on TV.

What our delegates can do, in Tampa, is make it known that abstaining is a valid option (if it's the case). Obama might want to start really beating Romney up. If he's able to damage him, you say "oh, no, Romney is so damaged, so unelectable, that the only right thing to do is abstain and find someone else who can beat Obama.

juvanya
04-25-2012, 02:54 AM
Pretty much everywhere you turn there was a fuck-up. We had all the establishment candidates knocked off the ballot and harrisburg couldn't get the papers in on time. Then we had another screwup where we bought their bluff and didn't take them to court on their number one guy who didn't have enough signatures on the ballot. The signatures collections had lots of a fraud going on but it's irrelevant now. Some of the blatant bullshit that they got away with was simply because people are more interested in waving signs than actually helping out with signature challenges.

Then we were told that the campaign was going to announce the delegates during the rally, and they didn't. We were told the delegates were going to be announced. We had 3400 people in that room and instead of having an army at the polls we had 40 people...

A lot of this is organizational fuckups. The campaign is not communicating with the grass roots. We had alot of this stuff handled and dropped the ball, due to inexperience. The organization just isnt there yet.


And as far as converting the unbound delegates, GOOD LUCK. The establishment idiots in Philly HATE Paul and it's been a WAR zone over there. The establishment here won't vote for paul because they play by the establishment rules. "You stay in line or we throw you out."

This may sound gloomy, but these political hacks are getting old. If we keep presenting liberty candidates for president, this old dinosaur will fall.

THIS THIS THIS
People are so lazy. The campaign is largely incompetent. Rand should be touring Kentucky. If we lose Kentucky (we will), itll be the biggest joke yet. We cant put all our damn eggs in the sneakily stealing delegates project. There arent enough caucuses and stealable primaries.

kathy88
04-25-2012, 04:05 AM
Potter County, PA may be the only county today in all 5 states not won by Romney. He leads it only 41 to 38. Guess who is second with 79% reporting...:rolleyes:

Surprising. Potter County PA is an uber rural, depressing place. Highest teen suicide rate per capita in the state, perhaps even the country? Deliverance type area.

Lindsey
04-25-2012, 04:48 AM
Surprising. Potter County PA is an uber rural, depressing place. Highest teen suicide rate per capita in the state, perhaps even the country? Deliverance type area.

Funny, a lot of people here view Potter Cnty as a vacation place, an escape from the hectic-ness down here.

I know things didn't go perfectly for us, but I think we should also recognize what a massive, well-oiled political machine Pennsylvania's establishment has, in addition to it's large senior population. This was very evident at the precinct where I worked. We had a steep uphill battle. Sure I am disappointed that 4 if our delegate/alt delegates got knocked out during the challenges and that it's looking like 1 out of the 2 on the ballot will be going to Tampa. Sure I see a lot of areas for Monday-morning quarterbacking. But I also realize there were tremendous obstacles here. Before we beat ourselves up and defeat ourselves, let's look at what went wrong and work on developing strategies for breaking down the wall for liberty candidates.

For one, I think we need to focus on getting liberty candidates in as many races as possible b'n now and 2016, to have any chance at having a candidate win then. We need people on the streets - because if there was one lesson most evident from the poll I worked it is that most people just want to be told what to do, and a polite voice telling them a one-liner about a candidate was enough to win them over. We need long-term sustained effort - brand recognition goes a looong way, but also it is going to have to be hard-fought and strategic every step of the way. In my opinion GOTV is not as important as identifying people who are already voters and winning them over specifically. Many of the people who came to vote did so not because they were passionate or had any convictions leading them to a particular candidate, but because they "never not vote." These people were very easy to sway. Some people asked me questions like "is this who the township is endorsing?" - again, they had no personal conviction in the race - they were just going a long with what they thought others wanted them to do. We also need to stop ignoring the older population - these people vote, are largely open to letting you tell them about a candidate, and are usually swayable with some gentle persuasion!

Sorry this is rambling and maybe only partially coherent or maybe barely intelligible, but this is just my stream of thought as I am still in the process of waking up and coming to an understanding of yesterday's events.

Austrian Econ Disciple
04-25-2012, 04:50 AM
Results not surprising. I wonder if more folk will put the bulk of their efforts on local races from now on. How much money have we spent on federal races...put it when we have a shot at winning (Amash type districts, etc.), but really, the goal of this election should be to oust as many establishment puppets from positions in the GOP if you are into the GOP sort of thing. It's nice to have hope, but if I was a bettin' man I'd put my chips on Romney getting the nod seeing as how he has the entire machine in his corner (that be the media, the establishment GOP across the country, Corporatocracy, etc. etc.).

Start getting elected locally and work your way to the State legislature. Nullification, Secession, Interposition, that's ultimately the path we should take. I'm not greedy -- all I ask is for one state, one territory to be able to say there lives liberty and that is my home. I'm making my stand in New Hampshire. Hope other fine folk can join those of us up there, and if you can't well..do your best locally.

I might add, we should make their lives as much a living hell as we can at the convention. They mean war, so should we.

kathy88
04-25-2012, 05:20 AM
Funny, a lot of people here view Potter Cnty as a vacation place, an escape from the hectic-ness down here.

I know things didn't go perfectly for us, but I think we should also recognize what a massive, well-oiled political machine Pennsylvania's establishment has, in addition to it's large senior population. This was very evident at the precinct where I worked. We had a steep uphill battle. Sure I am disappointed that 4 if our delegate/alt delegates got knocked out during the challenges and that it's looking like 1 out of the 2 on the ballot will be going to Tampa. Sure I see a lot of areas for Monday-morning quarterbacking. But I also realize there were tremendous obstacles here. Before we beat ourselves up and defeat ourselves, let's look at what went wrong and work on developing strategies for breaking down the wall for liberty candidates.

For one, I think we need to focus on getting liberty candidates in as many races as possible b'n now and 2016, to have any chance at having a candidate win then. We need people on the streets - because if there was one lesson most evident from the poll I worked it is that most people just want to be told what to do, and a polite voice telling them a one-liner about a candidate was enough to win them over. We need long-term sustained effort - brand recognition goes a looong way, but also it is going to have to be hard-fought and strategic every step of the way. In my opinion GOTV is not as important as identifying people who are already voters and winning them over specifically. Many of the people who came to vote did so not because they were passionate or had any convictions leading them to a particular candidate, but because they "never not vote." These people were very easy to sway. Some people asked me questions like "is this who the township is endorsing?" - again, they had no personal conviction in the race - they were just going a long with what they thought others wanted them to do. We also need to stop ignoring the older population - these people vote, are largely open to letting you tell them about a candidate, and are usually swayable with some gentle persuasion!

Sorry this is rambling and maybe only partially coherent or maybe barely intelligible, but this is just my stream of thought as I am still in the process of waking up and coming to an understanding of yesterday's events.

Nice post. On a side note, the billboard you pass when crossing the border between Tioga/Potter counties reads, "welcome to God's country." It IS beautiful, but a very poor area. Great rafting/hiking, etc...

MelissaCato
04-25-2012, 05:25 AM
I go hunting every year in potter county. I think they have some of the best hunting lands in pennsylvania. They definitely know how to serve a huge breakfast there for about 5.00 a person.

gjdavis60
04-25-2012, 06:09 AM
Funny, a lot of people here view Potter Cnty as a vacation place, an escape from the hectic-ness down here.

I know things didn't go perfectly for us, but I think we should also recognize what a massive, well-oiled political machine Pennsylvania's establishment has, in addition to it's large senior population. This was very evident at the precinct where I worked. We had a steep uphill battle. Sure I am disappointed that 4 if our delegate/alt delegates got knocked out during the challenges and that it's looking like 1 out of the 2 on the ballot will be going to Tampa. Sure I see a lot of areas for Monday-morning quarterbacking. But I also realize there were tremendous obstacles here. Before we beat ourselves up and defeat ourselves, let's look at what went wrong and work on developing strategies for breaking down the wall for liberty candidates.

For one, I think we need to focus on getting liberty candidates in as many races as possible b'n now and 2016, to have any chance at having a candidate win then. We need people on the streets - because if there was one lesson most evident from the poll I worked it is that most people just want to be told what to do, and a polite voice telling them a one-liner about a candidate was enough to win them over. We need long-term sustained effort - brand recognition goes a looong way, but also it is going to have to be hard-fought and strategic every step of the way. In my opinion GOTV is not as important as identifying people who are already voters and winning them over specifically. Many of the people who came to vote did so not because they were passionate or had any convictions leading them to a particular candidate, but because they "never not vote." These people were very easy to sway. Some people asked me questions like "is this who the township is endorsing?" - again, they had no personal conviction in the race - they were just going a long with what they thought others wanted them to do. We also need to stop ignoring the older population - these people vote, are largely open to letting you tell them about a candidate, and are usually swayable with some gentle persuasion!

Sorry this is rambling and maybe only partially coherent or maybe barely intelligible, but this is just my stream of thought as I am still in the process of waking up and coming to an understanding of yesterday's events.

Good observations. We are opposing a system that has tremendous inertia. It's not that people are satisfied; they're not, but they are also very reluctant to move outside of the system as they have known it all their lives. We are asking them to think for themselves, to eschew the propaganda that they are spoon-fed and to actually do some work to understand the political landscape, to question their authority figures, and to take a leap of faith outside of a cocoon that they perceive has been responsible for their relatively comfortable lives.

Revolutions are almost never possible unless living conditions are unbearable. If the U.S. economy were to implode, we would have an easier time getting people to abandon the status quo, but as long as the majority of the population is not displaced or threatened with imminent catastrophe, they are going to cling to what the perceive keeps them comfortable.

Meanwhile, we have to continue fighting on all fronts: national politics, local politics and face to face engagement. Although there has been plenty in this presidential campaign to frustrate and discourage, I will never get tired of evangelizing our philosophy one-on-one with anybody who cares to listen. It has been a long and hard road for me to deprogram myself of conventional thinking, but I can say with certainty that I have moved my entire circle of friends and family toward our positions simply by engaging them calmly with facts and logic. Did they all run out and campaign for Dr. Paul? No, at least not this time, but they have all come to better understand the Constitution, the philosophy of classical liberalism, and the principles of free market economics that are the basis of our political world-view, and more and more they see that the establishment propaganda does not provide answers or solutions to our problems. They have all moved in our direction and are primed to come further as events confirm our positions.

Our movement can still change the course of this country (and perhaps the world). We provide the only alternative narrative that offers answers to the problems of big government and corporatism. The grassroots, brought together through the Internet, have made unprecedented inroads to the political system. The challenge will be maintaining our energy and momentum without the visibility of a presidential campaign, and adjusting our strategies to take the movement to the next level. Based on the enthusiasm and creativity we have seen over these past two presidential campaigns, I have no doubts that we can persevere as long as we do not allow ourselves to become disillusioned or discouraged.

brandon
04-25-2012, 07:30 AM
Funny, a lot of people here view Potter Cnty as a vacation place, an escape from the hectic-ness down here.

I know things didn't go perfectly for us, but I think we should also recognize what a massive, well-oiled political machine Pennsylvania's establishment has, in addition to it's large senior population. This was very evident at the precinct where I worked. We had a steep uphill battle. Sure I am disappointed that 4 if our delegate/alt delegates got knocked out during the challenges and that it's looking like 1 out of the 2 on the ballot will be going to Tampa. Sure I see a lot of areas for Monday-morning quarterbacking. But I also realize there were tremendous obstacles here. Before we beat ourselves up and defeat ourselves, let's look at what went wrong and work on developing strategies for breaking down the wall for liberty candidates.

For one, I think we need to focus on getting liberty candidates in as many races as possible b'n now and 2016, to have any chance at having a candidate win then. We need people on the streets - because if there was one lesson most evident from the poll I worked it is that most people just want to be told what to do, and a polite voice telling them a one-liner about a candidate was enough to win them over. We need long-term sustained effort - brand recognition goes a looong way, but also it is going to have to be hard-fought and strategic every step of the way. In my opinion GOTV is not as important as identifying people who are already voters and winning them over specifically. Many of the people who came to vote did so not because they were passionate or had any convictions leading them to a particular candidate, but because they "never not vote." These people were very easy to sway. Some people asked me questions like "is this who the township is endorsing?" - again, they had no personal conviction in the race - they were just going a long with what they thought others wanted them to do. We also need to stop ignoring the older population - these people vote, are largely open to letting you tell them about a candidate, and are usually swayable with some gentle persuasion!

Sorry this is rambling and maybe only partially coherent or maybe barely intelligible, but this is just my stream of thought as I am still in the process of waking up and coming to an understanding of yesterday's events.

What the heck happened in Philly anyway? I saw we had a full slate at turn in. How did they manage to get that many knocked off on both districts? I was a District 1 delegate candidate in 2008 and they didn't get any of us knocked off - but we did have big time help from paid petitioners to meet the requirement.

brandon
04-25-2012, 07:33 AM
I think an important thing to learn from this is no independent delegate candidate is ever going to win in PA if they are not in the first three ballot slots. Furthermore, if they are running against big name people like congressman and party bosses they probably won't win anyway. I think this whole delegate mess was just a waste of time. What we should be doing is getting elected as precinct committeemen and working our way up the ranks to the county or central committee.

Tobias2dope
04-25-2012, 08:13 AM
Flip them to what exactly? As long as they don't vote for Romney.

I have heard that delegates can abstain from voting. Even delegates bound to Romney. If that's true, we should get that out there.

"What happens if Romney is so damaged, should his delegates abstain, can his delegates abstain?" We would benefit if the tv pundits said that a lot on TV.

What our delegates can do, in Tampa, is make it known that abstaining is a valid option (if it's the case). Obama might want to start really beating Romney up. If he's able to damage him, you say "oh, no, Romney is so damaged, so unelectable, that the only right thing to do is abstain and find someone else who can beat Obama.

I think that would be a good thing to advocate. Bound Romney Voters, simply don't vote if you don't want to vote for him. I like it. Anything that works. As long as it's legal of course.

MarcusI
04-25-2012, 08:15 AM
FHQ prediction:

Rough, ROUGH #paprimary delegate count: Uncommitted/unconfirmed 16 or 17, Romney 7, Paul 5, Gingrich 4 and Santorum 3 or 4.

Remaining 23 #paprimary delegates are elected officials, county-endorsed people & previous delegates/alternates.

parocks
04-25-2012, 11:51 AM
I think an important thing to learn from this is no independent delegate candidate is ever going to win in PA if they are not in the first three ballot slots. Furthermore, if they are running against big name people like congressman and party bosses they probably won't win anyway. I think this whole delegate mess was just a waste of time. What we should be doing is getting elected as precinct committeemen and working our way up the ranks to the county or central committee.

What about if you're famous? If you're famous, and you're an independent delegate candidate, don't you win?

I'd like a breakdown of as many delegate races as possible. Who won? Why? Who lost? Why?

brandon
04-25-2012, 12:03 PM
Yes, I'm sure you would have a good chance if you were famous but not a politician. But you would have to be known among the elderly. Maybe like a big time pro baseball player from the 80s or something like that would do well.


Edit: I see you edited your post after my post and we're both agreeing on pro athletes. They could pull it off.

parocks
04-25-2012, 12:03 PM
People from the fields of sports and entertainment are famous, could beat even Congressmen.

Could we come up with 69 delegates who could win?

Phillies, Eagles, Sixers, Flyers, Steelers, Pirates, Penguins.

I think Ben Rothlisburger could win a delegate race. Michael Vick, controversial or not.

I would think that a task would be to get these people on board. We don't have any powerful political supporters who would get butt hurt if we didn't pick them. So pick athletes. And other famous locals.

parocks
04-25-2012, 12:26 PM
Yes, I'm sure you would have a good chance if you were famous but not a politician. But you would have to be known among the elderly. Maybe like a big time pro baseball player from the 80s or something like that would do well.



Edit: I see you edited your post after my post and we're both agreeing on pro athletes. They could pull it off.


Yeah. Pro athletes have money and egos and they also have finite careers and uncertain futures after their careers. Current pro athletes would be best - because unless old people stopped watching sports, are unfamiliar with current athletes, all sports fans will know the current athletes.

how many votes you need to win 1 del in each CD?

1 - 5K
2 - 3K
3 - 16K
4 - 15K
5 - 21K
6 - 16K
7 - 29K
8 - 20K
9 - 12K
10 - 19K
11 - 12K
12 - 17K
13 - 10K
14 - 5K
15 - 13K
16 - 18K
17 - 8K
18 - 15K

Are there any other states besides PA that work like that - direct election of unbound delegates? Illinois maybe? Cubs, White Sox, Bears, Black Hawks, Bulls.

juvanya
04-26-2012, 03:58 AM
For one, I think we need to focus on getting liberty candidates in as many races as possible b'n now and 2016
This. Im running for state legislature in NJ next year as a Republican in a D+ district. And hoping to recruit some others to do the same in other places. Its really not that hard if you message yourself correctly and GOTV.

juvanya
04-26-2012, 04:03 AM
Was there any movement to promote Rohrer? He seems like essentially what we want. Mentions NDAA and SOPA on his site. He got 2nd place...

Lindsey
04-26-2012, 05:44 AM
Yes.

MarcusI
04-26-2012, 11:24 AM
I found this via FHQ - a try to link every elected delegate to the candidates. From a "conservative" web-forum. Seems to be quite sophiticated.

-------------------------------

TOTAL:

Delegates:
26 Romney
18 Unknown/Uncommitted
5 Paul
4 Santorum
3 Gingrich
3 District Winner

Alternates:
44 Unknown/Uncommitted
9 Paul
2 Romney
1 Gingrich
1 District Winner

--------------------------

CD 1 (Vote for 3)

Taxin, Marion (2008 alternate) [ROMNEY] {endorsed by county GOP in Delaware/Philly}

Vogler, Christopher [ROMNEY] {endorsed by county GOP in Delaware/Philly}

Boggia, Tom [PAUL]

ALTERNATE PETTIGREW, WILLIAM J.

ALTERNATE DANZI, THOMAS

ALTERNATE KAUFER, SETH W.

************************************************** ******************

CD 2 (Vote for 3)

Tucker, Calvin

Harris, Lewis [ROMNEY] {endorsed by county GOP in Philly/Montco}

Vogler, Walter [ROMNEY]

ALTERNATE ASH, KAREN A.

ALTERNATE GOULD, JR, LEWIS F.

ALTERNATE O’BRIEN, FRAN

************************************************** ******************

CD 3 (Vote for 3)

English, Philip [ROMNEY]

Mustello, Michele (2004 alternate)

Metcalfe, Daryl (State Rep.)

ALTERNATE BAKER, MICHAEL T.

ALTERNATE MAUS JOINT, LORI

ALTERNATE MUSTELLO, MARCI A.

************************************************** ******************

CD 4 (Vote for 4)

Wingert, Lisa [ROMNEY]

Gerow, Charlie [GINGRICH]

Gillispie, Marilyn (2008 delegate) [SANTORUM]

Bair, Barbara [NO RESPONSE]

ALTERNATE Nagle, Chad [PAUL]

ALTERNATE Shoemaker, Seth M. [PAUL]

ALTERNATE TALLEY, DAVE

ALTERNATE MATTHIAS, G. EDWIN

************************************************** ******************

CD 5 (Vote for 3)

Martin, Thomas [PAUL]

Haas, Joyce (possible establishment ties?) [SANTORUM?]

Brown, Thomas G. [PAUL]

ALTERNATE STERRETT, SHEILA FITZGERALD

ALTERNATE FLAVIN, DEBORAH C.

ALTERNATE Brady, Mark R. [PAUL]

************************************************** ******************

CD 6 (Vote for 3)

Schroder, Curt (State Rep.) [GINGRICH]

Costello, Ryan [ROMNEY]

Gerlach, Jim [ROMNEY]

ALTERNATE Doyle, Mary Louise [UNCOMMITTED, SOUNDS LIKE SHE DOESN’T LIKE GINGRICH]

ALTERNATE Peppel, Brian [UNCOMMITTED, LEANING TOWARD DISTRICT WINNER]

ALTERNATE MacQueen, Norm [UNCOMMITTED, LEANING TOWARD DISTRICT WINNER]

************************************************** ******************

CD 7 (Vote for 4)

Willert, Robert [ROMNEY?] {endorsed by county GOP in Delaware}

Lewis, Andy [ROMNEY?] {endorsed by county GOP in Delaware}

Booker, Patricia [ROMNEY?] {endorsed by county GOP in Delaware}

Puppio, Michael [ROMNEY?] {endorsed by county GOP in Delaware} (2008 Delegate)

ALTERNATE Wood-Jacobs, Katherine

ALTERNATE Salvucci, Elizabeth

ALTERNATE Egan, John

ALTERNATE Welsh, Carolyn [ROMNEY]

************************************************** ******************

CD 8 (Vote for 4)

DiGirolamo, Joe [ROMNEY] {endorsed by county GOP in Bucks}

Loughery, Robert [ROMNEY] {endorsed by county GOP in Bucks}

Poprik, Patricia [ROMNEY] (2008 delegate) {endorsed by county GOP in Bucks}

O’Neill, Bernie (State Rep.) [ROMNEY] {endorsed by county GOP in Bucks}

ALTERNATE ZIPFEL, THOMAS C.

ALTERNATE YORI, JENNIFER L.

ALTERNATE BORDA, LAWRENCE A.

ALTERNATE HUNT, MARGO J.

************************************************** ******************

CD 9 (Vote for 3)

Shuster, Bill [ROMNEY]

Thomas, Bob (2008 delegate)

Hess, Dick (State Rep.)

ALTERNATE KELLEY, BRUCE K.

ALTERNATE Ward, Judy [UNCOMMITTED, see above]

ALTERNATE KING, DEBBIE SHUSTER

************************************************** ******************

CD 10 (Vote for 3)

Harris, Mark [DISTRICT WINNER]

Sides, Carol

Saylor, Pat (2008 delegate)

ALTERNATE Price, Nancy E. [PAUL]

ALTERNATE COSMELLO, DONNA M.

ALTERNATE HARRIS, MARK J.

************************************************** ******************

CD 11 (Vote for 3)

Evans, Kathy

Haste, Jeff [ROMNEY]

Piccola, Jeff (State Senator) [ROMNEY]

ALTERNATE RODGERS, JOHN P.

ALTERNATE Anderson, Holly [PAUL]

ALTERNATE HENRY, SCOTT M.

************************************************** ******************

CD 12 (Vote for 4)

Wilson, Ann [NO RESPONSE]

Cooper, Jill [DISTRICT WINNER]

Gleason, Jane (Daughter of Bob “Gunner” Gleason. Bob is the Chairman of the Republican State Committee of Pennsylvania.) [SANTORUM OR POSSIBLY UNCOMMITTED NOW]

Turzai, Lidia (2008 delegate) [DISTRICT WINNER, HAS SOLID CONSERVATIVE POSITIONS]

ALTERNATE McMullen, Mike (2008 delegate) [GINGRICH]

ALTERNATE Kennedy, Sarah

ALTERNATE Pruchnic, Carol [ROMNEY]

************************************************** ******************

CD 13 (Vote for 3)

Donnelly, William [ROMNEY]

McMonagle, Michael (2008 delegate) (President of Pro-Life Coalition PA in Lansdale) [SANTORUM OR NOT ROMNEY]

Ellis, Thomas [ROMNEY]

ALTERNATE BOC, STEVEN C.

ALTERNATE TILLEY, AGNES

ALTERNATE BARNES, DEIRDRE

************************************************** ******************

CD 14 (Vote for 3)

Meloy, Mary Ann

Roddey, James [ROMNEY]

Haluszczak, Melissa [UNCOMMITTED]

ALTERNATE Maul, Andy [PAUL]

ALTERNATE Sheets, James [PAUL]

************************************************** ******************

CD 15 (Vote for 3)

Smith, Robert (2008 alternate)

Browne, Pat [ROMNEY, SWITCHED FROM SANTORUM?]

Eckhart, Glenn

ALTERNATE MILLARD-KERN, ELLEN E.

ALTERNATE Donatelli, Chris [PAUL]

ALTERNATE SMITH, JR, ROBERT E.

************************************************** ******************

CD 16 (Vote for 3)

Brubaker, Michael [ROMNEY] {endorsed by county GOP in Lancaster}

Walker, Robert [GINGRICH]

Womble, Ann [ROMNEY] {endorsed by county GOP in Lancaster}

ALTERNATE Schnee, Marilyn [DISTRICT WINNER]

ALTERNATE Bradley, Ben [PAUL]

ALTERNATE Lawrence, John

************************************************** ******************

CD 17 (Vote for 3)

Antonello, Anthony M. [PAUL]

Thomas, Scott

Dougherty, Mary Beth [ROMNEY, SWITCHED FROM GINGRICH?]

ALTERNATE MCANDREW SPANO, MARY ROSE

ALTERNATE THOMAS, SCOTT R.

ALTERNATE DOUGHERTY, MARY BETH

************************************************** ******************

CD 18 (Vote for 4)

Means, Sue

Dougherty, Brian [PAUL]

Silvis, Mary Jo (2008 delegate)

Wells, Jay

ALTERNATE GEER, GERRY D.

ALTERNATE STOPPERICH, SONIA MARIE

ALTERNATE URAM, THOMAS J.

ALTERNATE OLIVERIO, LOUIS M.


-------------------------------------

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2874726/posts?page=104#104

andym
04-27-2012, 03:16 AM
OK, so who here has followed what Ron Paul has repeatedly said to take over the Republican Party from the ground up through the Precinct Project? Who here has obtained their 10 petition signatures from Republicans within a few block area around your home to get on the ballot? If you haven't, you only have yourself to blame for not doing your part to take over the Republican establishment. We need to establish ourselves to BECOME the establishment.


Also, I spent a lot of time tonight talking to my republican state rep. He pretty much told me that Rohrer was being punished for running against Tom Corbett for Governor. The establishment would have supported him if he played their game.

The GOP party establishment is so strong. This fight is extremely daunting.

andym
04-27-2012, 03:34 AM
In CD14, all the well known GOP candidates and ex-officials won, none of the RP delegates got it. But one of the well-known neocons came in last place. At least the RP delegates didn't do that. As for Alternate Delegates, I received almost 10,000 votes and the other RP alternate received over 10,000 votes, so we're both going to Tampa.
http://www.electionreturns.state.pa.us/ElectionsInformation.aspx?FunctionID=15&ElectionID=45&OfficeID=20&DistrictID=14

We also have a write-in for CD14 that I'm hoping will go through, but there was a write-in campaign also by the neo-cons. Not sure what his (Tony Destro) result will be. Our local campaign had some problems, poll working cards stunk, the font was tiny and didn't even have our write-in candidate, so I made up my own to pass out at the location I was at. Passed out around 120 cards. I'd like to look at stats to compare the polling locations where RP poll workers were at to that of the general. I'd also like to break out my own polling location since I used my own made poll working cards.

It was also disappointing in that in our CD14, we only had about 20 poll workers. I'd like to know how many poll workers each CD had. Also a bit disappointing in that at the RP rally in Pittsburgh, none from the stage did a call out for the 2,300 people attending to support poll working to help get delegates elected. We were running around outside the event pleading with people to sign up, even having to explain the delegate process. If this was done from the stage, not only would this have saved us alot of time, but we would have received lots more people signing up. My mouth was so dry at the end talking to so many people, jumping from one mini-group outside to another mini-group of people. It made the beer taste so much better. But I told the MC of the event, who introduced Ron Paul that I was disappointed in that nothing was said, but we'll just have to find some way to continue running with the ball and move forward. If I gave up, I wouldn't have been running around so much afterwards.


Yeah it was tough. People who went and didn't know who to vote for knew those names and voted for them. I honestly wasn't expected to get any delegates here because of this very reason.

Regardless, I think what you did was amazing. I can understand your disappointed, but don't get too down!! I'm shocked that Conno. Twp had 51 RP votes. I want to meet all 49 of those people! :)

andym
04-27-2012, 03:51 AM
Did you do your part to take over the local GOP committee? Imagine if all of us did this, obtained the 10 petition signatures to take over the establishment? I'm tired of the cry babies. Put your bottles down, lose your own fear and apathy, and join your local committees. While there, you can push the traditional conservative foreign policy to educate others. Always forward, never retreat, never quit.


Those of us from '07 already went through this.. I was just hoping America has woke up.. Unfortunately America is taken over by immense fear, thus anyone with a foreign policy that Ron has will never win.

andym
04-27-2012, 04:09 AM
Our "challenge" process was a miserable failure for the most part, however we got about 4 people off the ballot that way. It could have been closer to 40 off the ballot, but some leadership made some bad mistakes, such as confusing deadlines. But if we can learn from our mistakes, we can do better, much better. We'll be applying what we learned to challenge every neocon, not in four years, but next year. As you know, many of the delegates who won are well known Republicans. If we can get neocons off the ballots in 2013, 14 & 15, they'll lose their notoriety. But we need local help to 1) identify neocons, 2) help in petition review, and 3) help locally for someone to be the designated challenger.

I really hate to read all of the negativity here in so many posts. If you're still apathetic, join the Occupy Wallstreet, Anonymous, & Anarchist guys and live in your own stink. We need stink out of the Ron Paul liberty movement and always move forward during adversity.


The amount of effort and money that went into petitioning to get only 5 delegates is pretty sad. We still had to try though. I wish PA would drop their retarded primary system and adopt a caucus process.

I haven't checked but I assume we are getting a few more alternates than delegates.

andym
04-27-2012, 04:17 AM
Strongly agreed. Ron Paul has been pressing the Precinct Project sing 2008. If you're not yet onboard, come on board.


We need to organize by town and borough, like the establishment does. If we start having our own committee meetings in every town (no matter how small the meeting is), then we can win. Right now everyone seems stretched too thin, we're focusing on whole congressional districts at a time rather than one precinct at a time. We should have these meetings and vote for who we want to run for specific offices or for delegate in an organized way.

edit: this will also increase our chances of having people at every poll handing out our ballot

andym
04-27-2012, 04:20 AM
You got that right. People get into the "Cult of Personality", whether it's Obama or even Ron Paul. Paul is just a man, who has great ideas. If you don't do the things to follow through, then you're nothing more than the average mindless sports fan.


PaRocks. The way I see it, Ron Paul grassroots is overhyped. You can't have 20% doing the real work while 80% are Rah Rah supporters banging on the keyboard.

andym
04-27-2012, 04:30 AM
EXACTLY Tobias, our job isn't done. We can still try to convert all delegates who were elected. We'll have a list of all of them to work on. It's not over until August!


So I have a question, I heard that PA is UNBOUND delegates, does that mean you could theoretically FLIP Gingrich-Santorum-Romney people to vote for PAUL, regardless of what they say? I'm curious, because what if Us Paulbots just UPPED are game and converted all those people?

andym
04-27-2012, 04:39 AM
The poll I worked at for 13 hours on Tuesday had about 60% of the people come in during the period from 4pm to around 6:30. If people could put in the time, from say 3:30 onward, just a few hours we could have won more. Need to learn and move forward.



What did you do today for PA?

Listen I'm not trying to upset you but you tend to be a "this or that could have, should have, been done kinda guy/gal"

I sent 2 weeks on the phone lining up poll workers and called about 200+ people. Some didn't give a number. They want to help sure but try and get them to reply to an email or return a phone call. Their are a lot of precincts and I could only get about 30 people out today.

I need 300 + people to all but gurentee a win here in our district, and only had a list of 400+.

One older lady had to go home because it was cold.
14 hours on your feet and a cold day are not things people jump at the opportunity to participate in.

We had 30 x 14 = 420 hours just today. It was cold, people can be rude, and we are all tired.

I need to get a few hours sleep now and work tomorrow.

How about you?

Please be more respectful of our efforts unless you can show me a better way.

Oh and we did get one of ours to Tampa. That is 25% of our district. Better than most state numbers so far.

andym
04-27-2012, 04:43 AM
Make poll working a family affair. While you and a kid work one entrance to a poll, your wife and other kid can work another.


I'm with you man, I think part of the problem is, the curse of being an awake Ron Paul supporter is that you're most likely also a hard working family man with tons of responsibility. Maybe that's just in my head, idk.

andym
04-27-2012, 04:48 AM
Then do your best to buy them and leave us out of this crap.


Oh please, almost everyone can be bought for the right price, how do you think the elite got the power they have now, they bought it!

juvanya
04-27-2012, 05:32 AM
Did you do your part to take over the local GOP committee? Imagine if all of us did this, obtained the 10 petition signatures to take over the establishment? I'm tired of the cry babies. Put your bottles down, lose your own fear and apathy, and join your local committees. While there, you can push the traditional conservative foreign policy to educate others. Always forward, never retreat, never quit.
I will add that to my playbook. A group of socialists actually considered taking over a bunch of Republican committee seats in a nearby city because they were all vacant. I kind of wish they had done it.

andym
04-27-2012, 07:25 AM
What is this?


FHQ prediction:

Rough, ROUGH #paprimary delegate count: Uncommitted/unconfirmed 16 or 17, Romney 7, Paul 5, Gingrich 4 and Santorum 3 or 4.

Remaining 23 #paprimary delegates are elected officials, county-endorsed people & previous delegates/alternates.

andym
04-27-2012, 07:29 AM
This is how one of the elected delegates won in CD14. She ran as a congresswoman, got trounced by the Democrat 80/20, but because she ran CD-wide and had the guts to do this, her name was out there and the CD14 Republicans rewarded her with a CD14 win.


This. Im running for state legislature in NJ next year as a Republican in a D+ district. And hoping to recruit some others to do the same in other places. Its really not that hard if you message yourself correctly and GOTV.

andym
04-27-2012, 07:31 AM
When asked, Roher said he was most like Santorum, and Marc Scaringi said he was most like Ron Paul. Scaringi was always the most Paul-like if anyone cared to look up his positions, against interventionism, the war on drugs, etc. Thus I promoted Scaringi. Rohrer wanted to bomb Iran.


Was there any movement to promote Rohrer? He seems like essentially what we want. Mentions NDAA and SOPA on his site. He got 2nd place...

andym
04-27-2012, 07:37 AM
What IS FHQ? Who generated this? FreeRepublic isn't "conservative". They threw me off the site because I posted too many Ron Paul clips in 2008.


I found this via FHQ - a try to link every elected delegate to the candidates. From a "conservative" web-forum. Seems to be quite sophiticated.

-------------------------------

TOTAL:

Delegates:
26 Romney
18 Unknown/Uncommitted
5 Paul
4 Santorum
3 Gingrich
3 District Winner

Alternates:
44 Unknown/Uncommitted
9 Paul
2 Romney
1 Gingrich
1 District Winner

--------------------------

CD 1 (Vote for 3)

Taxin, Marion (2008 alternate) [ROMNEY] {endorsed by county GOP in Delaware/Philly}

Vogler, Christopher [ROMNEY] {endorsed by county GOP in Delaware/Philly}

Boggia, Tom [PAUL]

ALTERNATE PETTIGREW, WILLIAM J.

ALTERNATE DANZI, THOMAS

ALTERNATE KAUFER, SETH W.

************************************************** ******************

CD 2 (Vote for 3)

Tucker, Calvin

Harris, Lewis [ROMNEY] {endorsed by county GOP in Philly/Montco}

Vogler, Walter [ROMNEY]

ALTERNATE ASH, KAREN A.

ALTERNATE GOULD, JR, LEWIS F.

ALTERNATE O’BRIEN, FRAN

************************************************** ******************

CD 3 (Vote for 3)

English, Philip [ROMNEY]

Mustello, Michele (2004 alternate)

Metcalfe, Daryl (State Rep.)

ALTERNATE BAKER, MICHAEL T.

ALTERNATE MAUS JOINT, LORI

ALTERNATE MUSTELLO, MARCI A.

************************************************** ******************

CD 4 (Vote for 4)

Wingert, Lisa [ROMNEY]

Gerow, Charlie [GINGRICH]

Gillispie, Marilyn (2008 delegate) [SANTORUM]

Bair, Barbara [NO RESPONSE]

ALTERNATE Nagle, Chad [PAUL]

ALTERNATE Shoemaker, Seth M. [PAUL]

ALTERNATE TALLEY, DAVE

ALTERNATE MATTHIAS, G. EDWIN

************************************************** ******************

CD 5 (Vote for 3)

Martin, Thomas [PAUL]

Haas, Joyce (possible establishment ties?) [SANTORUM?]

Brown, Thomas G. [PAUL]

ALTERNATE STERRETT, SHEILA FITZGERALD

ALTERNATE FLAVIN, DEBORAH C.

ALTERNATE Brady, Mark R. [PAUL]

************************************************** ******************

CD 6 (Vote for 3)

Schroder, Curt (State Rep.) [GINGRICH]

Costello, Ryan [ROMNEY]

Gerlach, Jim [ROMNEY]

ALTERNATE Doyle, Mary Louise [UNCOMMITTED, SOUNDS LIKE SHE DOESN’T LIKE GINGRICH]

ALTERNATE Peppel, Brian [UNCOMMITTED, LEANING TOWARD DISTRICT WINNER]

ALTERNATE MacQueen, Norm [UNCOMMITTED, LEANING TOWARD DISTRICT WINNER]

************************************************** ******************

CD 7 (Vote for 4)

Willert, Robert [ROMNEY?] {endorsed by county GOP in Delaware}

Lewis, Andy [ROMNEY?] {endorsed by county GOP in Delaware}

Booker, Patricia [ROMNEY?] {endorsed by county GOP in Delaware}

Puppio, Michael [ROMNEY?] {endorsed by county GOP in Delaware} (2008 Delegate)

ALTERNATE Wood-Jacobs, Katherine

ALTERNATE Salvucci, Elizabeth

ALTERNATE Egan, John

ALTERNATE Welsh, Carolyn [ROMNEY]

************************************************** ******************

CD 8 (Vote for 4)

DiGirolamo, Joe [ROMNEY] {endorsed by county GOP in Bucks}

Loughery, Robert [ROMNEY] {endorsed by county GOP in Bucks}

Poprik, Patricia [ROMNEY] (2008 delegate) {endorsed by county GOP in Bucks}

O’Neill, Bernie (State Rep.) [ROMNEY] {endorsed by county GOP in Bucks}

ALTERNATE ZIPFEL, THOMAS C.

ALTERNATE YORI, JENNIFER L.

ALTERNATE BORDA, LAWRENCE A.

ALTERNATE HUNT, MARGO J.

************************************************** ******************

CD 9 (Vote for 3)

Shuster, Bill [ROMNEY]

Thomas, Bob (2008 delegate)

Hess, Dick (State Rep.)

ALTERNATE KELLEY, BRUCE K.

ALTERNATE Ward, Judy [UNCOMMITTED, see above]

ALTERNATE KING, DEBBIE SHUSTER

************************************************** ******************

CD 10 (Vote for 3)

Harris, Mark [DISTRICT WINNER]

Sides, Carol

Saylor, Pat (2008 delegate)

ALTERNATE Price, Nancy E. [PAUL]

ALTERNATE COSMELLO, DONNA M.

ALTERNATE HARRIS, MARK J.

************************************************** ******************

CD 11 (Vote for 3)

Evans, Kathy

Haste, Jeff [ROMNEY]

Piccola, Jeff (State Senator) [ROMNEY]

ALTERNATE RODGERS, JOHN P.

ALTERNATE Anderson, Holly [PAUL]

ALTERNATE HENRY, SCOTT M.

************************************************** ******************

CD 12 (Vote for 4)

Wilson, Ann [NO RESPONSE]

Cooper, Jill [DISTRICT WINNER]

Gleason, Jane (Daughter of Bob “Gunner” Gleason. Bob is the Chairman of the Republican State Committee of Pennsylvania.) [SANTORUM OR POSSIBLY UNCOMMITTED NOW]

Turzai, Lidia (2008 delegate) [DISTRICT WINNER, HAS SOLID CONSERVATIVE POSITIONS]

ALTERNATE McMullen, Mike (2008 delegate) [GINGRICH]

ALTERNATE Kennedy, Sarah

ALTERNATE Pruchnic, Carol [ROMNEY]

************************************************** ******************

CD 13 (Vote for 3)

Donnelly, William [ROMNEY]

McMonagle, Michael (2008 delegate) (President of Pro-Life Coalition PA in Lansdale) [SANTORUM OR NOT ROMNEY]

Ellis, Thomas [ROMNEY]

ALTERNATE BOC, STEVEN C.

ALTERNATE TILLEY, AGNES

ALTERNATE BARNES, DEIRDRE

************************************************** ******************

CD 14 (Vote for 3)

Meloy, Mary Ann

Roddey, James [ROMNEY]

Haluszczak, Melissa [UNCOMMITTED]

ALTERNATE Maul, Andy [PAUL]

ALTERNATE Sheets, James [PAUL]

************************************************** ******************

CD 15 (Vote for 3)

Smith, Robert (2008 alternate)

Browne, Pat [ROMNEY, SWITCHED FROM SANTORUM?]

Eckhart, Glenn

ALTERNATE MILLARD-KERN, ELLEN E.

ALTERNATE Donatelli, Chris [PAUL]

ALTERNATE SMITH, JR, ROBERT E.

************************************************** ******************

CD 16 (Vote for 3)

Brubaker, Michael [ROMNEY] {endorsed by county GOP in Lancaster}

Walker, Robert [GINGRICH]

Womble, Ann [ROMNEY] {endorsed by county GOP in Lancaster}

ALTERNATE Schnee, Marilyn [DISTRICT WINNER]

ALTERNATE Bradley, Ben [PAUL]

ALTERNATE Lawrence, John

************************************************** ******************

CD 17 (Vote for 3)

Antonello, Anthony M. [PAUL]

Thomas, Scott

Dougherty, Mary Beth [ROMNEY, SWITCHED FROM GINGRICH?]

ALTERNATE MCANDREW SPANO, MARY ROSE

ALTERNATE THOMAS, SCOTT R.

ALTERNATE DOUGHERTY, MARY BETH

************************************************** ******************

CD 18 (Vote for 4)

Means, Sue

Dougherty, Brian [PAUL]

Silvis, Mary Jo (2008 delegate)

Wells, Jay

ALTERNATE GEER, GERRY D.

ALTERNATE STOPPERICH, SONIA MARIE

ALTERNATE URAM, THOMAS J.

ALTERNATE OLIVERIO, LOUIS M.


-------------------------------------

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2874726/posts?page=104#104

juvanya
04-27-2012, 10:21 AM
What is this?
www.thegreenpapers.com/P12/PA-R#0424 Scroll down a tidbit to the table.

---

Is there some outline of this committee thing? Ive seen it before, but Im not sure how it works.

parocks
04-27-2012, 11:36 AM
Yes, I'm sure you would have a good chance if you were famous but not a politician. But you would have to be known among the elderly. Maybe like a big time pro baseball player from the 80s or something like that would do well.


Edit: I see you edited your post after my post and we're both agreeing on pro athletes. They could pull it off.

Also want to add, being in the top 3 isn't that important.

We won 3 of the 15 we had in the top 3.

We won 2 that weren't in the top 3.

In District 18, we had one in the top 3. He didn't win. We also had one win that wasn't in the top 3.

parocks
04-27-2012, 11:42 AM
The poll I worked at for 13 hours on Tuesday had about 60% of the people come in during the period from 4pm to around 6:30. If people could put in the time, from say 3:30 onward, just a few hours we could have won more. Need to learn and move forward.

Nice piece of info.

parocks
04-27-2012, 11:48 AM
In CD14, all the well known GOP candidates and ex-officials won, none of the RP delegates got it. But one of the well-known neocons came in last place. At least the RP delegates didn't do that. As for Alternate Delegates, I received almost 10,000 votes and the other RP alternate received over 10,000 votes, so we're both going to Tampa.
http://www.electionreturns.state.pa.us/ElectionsInformation.aspx?FunctionID=15&ElectionID=45&OfficeID=20&DistrictID=14

We also have a write-in for CD14 that I'm hoping will go through, but there was a write-in campaign also by the neo-cons. Not sure what his (Tony Destro) result will be. Our local campaign had some problems, poll working cards stunk, the font was tiny and didn't even have our write-in candidate, so I made up my own to pass out at the location I was at. Passed out around 120 cards. I'd like to look at stats to compare the polling locations where RP poll workers were at to that of the general. I'd also like to break out my own polling location since I used my own made poll working cards.

It was also disappointing in that in our CD14, we only had about 20 poll workers. I'd like to know how many poll workers each CD had. Also a bit disappointing in that at the RP rally in Pittsburgh, none from the stage did a call out for the 2,300 people attending to support poll working to help get delegates elected. We were running around outside the event pleading with people to sign up, even having to explain the delegate process. If this was done from the stage, not only would this have saved us alot of time, but we would have received lots more people signing up. My mouth was so dry at the end talking to so many people, jumping from one mini-group outside to another mini-group of people. It made the beer taste so much better. But I told the MC of the event, who introduced Ron Paul that I was disappointed in that nothing was said, but we'll just have to find some way to continue running with the ball and move forward. If I gave up, I wouldn't have been running around so much afterwards.

Like to have the delegate candidates on stage telling people to vote for them.

I too would like to see the precinct by precinct breakdowns.

CaptUSA
04-27-2012, 11:50 AM
I too would like to see the precinct by precinct breakdowns.I'll second that. I really would like to know how successful I was compared to other precincts with no pollworkers.

MarcusI
04-27-2012, 05:16 PM
What IS FHQ? Who generated this? FreeRepublic isn't "conservative". They threw me off the site because I posted too many Ron Paul clips in 2008.

FHQ (Frontloading HQ) is the blog of Josh Putnam, visiting assistant professor of political science at Davidson College specialized in campaigns and elections.
http://frontloading.blogspot.de/

I cant say anything about FreeRepublic, so thats why I put "conservative" in quotation marks.

andym
04-28-2012, 07:37 AM
Well we didn't need to be onstage, but the MC could have said (10 seconds) "After the rally outside PLEASE sign up to work a poll to help delegates win and support Ron Paul at the RNC". On statistics, CD14 will try to interpret and post here. Yes, "The poll I worked at for 13 hours on Tuesday had about 60% of the people come in during the period from 4pm to around 6:30. If people could put in the time, from say 3:30 onward, just a few hours we could have won more."


Like to have the delegate candidates on stage telling people to vote for them.

I too would like to see the precinct by precinct breakdowns.

andym
04-28-2012, 07:45 AM
Wow, thanks for this table. We should concentrate on all who aren't with "Romney". Try to contact them and gently and cordially convince them to favor Ron Paul.
What do you mean by "this committee thing". Google Pennsylvania Precinct Project if this is what you're writing about. We must ourselves become the establishment if we're to beat it in the future. We must be a part of the committees to win, only keyboard activism just won't cut it.


www.thegreenpapers.com/P12/PA-R#0424 Scroll down a tidbit to the table.

---

Is there some outline of this committee thing? Ive seen it before, but Im not sure how it works.

kathy88
04-28-2012, 07:46 AM
When asked, Roher said he was most like Santorum, and Marc Scaringi said he was most like Ron Paul. Scaringi was always the most Paul-like if anyone cared to look up his positions, against interventionism, the war on drugs, etc. Thus I promoted Scaringi. Rohrer wanted to bomb Iran.

Yet a few RPFers busted their asses for Rohrer and tried to convince the rest of us to do the same.

kathy88
04-28-2012, 07:48 AM
Wow, thanks for this table. We should concentrate on all who aren't with "Romney". Try to contact them and gently and cordially convince them to favor Ron Paul.
What do you mean by "this committee thing". Google Pennsylvania Precinct Project if this is what you're writing about. We must ourselves become the establishment if we're to beat it in the future. We must be a part of the committees to win, only keyboard activism just won't cut it.

We all appreciate the work you did/are doing, but insulting people and telling them that "your way" is the only way is probably not the best way to go about it. Not all districts are run the way yours is. We don't vote committee people in, they just show up to the GOP meetings and express an interest in the position. There are MANY ways to help get our ideas into the party. Your way is good. It's not the only way. I have no interest in holding any kind of office in the GOP. But I will canvass, call, attend meetings, write letters to local papers, etc... Your posts are kind of condescending.

andym
04-28-2012, 08:00 AM
I don't know why some RP followers chose Rohrer. Scaringi was clearly the most Paul-like for anyone who chose to do their homework. I hope they didn't intentionally sacrifice principles to "electability".


Yet a few RPFers busted their asses for Rohrer and tried to convince the rest of us to do the same.

MelissaCato
04-28-2012, 08:02 AM
I did my best darn it. It's not easy when you have to face the establishment of your own hometown. Lebanon is corrupt and it goes deep around here, it's multiple families, in-laws and decendents that control EVERYTHING. This wasn't in the past, isn't now and never will be easy.

That said, if I could go back to 2007 .. I would have never been so outspoken about being a Ron Paul supporter. THATS where I screwed up. I should have kept it a secret.

andym
04-28-2012, 08:05 AM
Do whatever you can, but if you're missing out on your local committees, you're missing out on influencing the entire Republican Party in your area. This advice is coming from BOTH Ron Paul and myself. JOIN YOUR LOCAL COMMITTEES. We must ourselves become the establishment if we're to beat it in the future. We must be a part of the committees to win, keyboard activism just won't cut it.


We all appreciate the work you did/are doing, but insulting people and telling them that "your way" is the only way is probably not the best way to go about it. Not all districts are run the way yours is. We don't vote committee people in, they just show up to the GOP meetings and express an interest in the position. There are MANY ways to help get our ideas into the party. Your way is good. It's not the only way. I have no interest in holding any kind of office in the GOP. But I will canvass, call, attend meetings, write letters to local papers, etc... Your posts are kind of condescending.

andym
04-28-2012, 08:09 AM
No, don't hold back. Team up with others to take over the committees. You won't do this with a "battle", but by attrition, over time. You just need to be persistent and to convince friends to do the same. If you're young, then you have an advantage. This will take time, months or years.


I did my best darn it. It's not easy when you have to face the establishment of your own hometown. Lebanon is corrupt and it goes deep around here, it's multiple families, in-laws and decendents that control EVERYTHING. This wasn't in the past, isn't now and never will be easy.

That said, if I could go back to 2007 .. I would have never been so outspoken about being a Ron Paul supporter. THATS where I screwed up. I should have kept it a secret.

kathy88
04-28-2012, 08:21 AM
I don't know why some RP followers chose Rohrer. Scaringi was clearly the most Paul-like for anyone who chose to do their homework. I hope they didn't intentionally sacrifice principles to "electability".

That is exactly what happened.